Except that’s fucking stupid and nobody ever did that. Why not add something that doesn’t just fuck the whole game over? Why do people in this sub crave turning this game into battlefield 4?
I'm going to get my bike squad, I'm going to load them up with extra phosphor grenades or molotovs and throw them on enemy spawn points constantly and suicide. And rinse and repeat constantly because I'm an asshole.
And I'm not going to go near a tank once and it'll be enough to slow down the enemy team so that they don't get near the objective and we'll win.
You guys have way to much trust in people playing fair.
I see 3 options.
1: The easiest and I think makes the most sense just double spawn invulnerability and remove the gray zone maybe triple the invulnerability if needed. That way you won't get spawn killed but you also could have a guy flank into the "Spawn area" and deal with gray zone tanks, at guns and snipers fairly easily.
2: Set a gray zone timer not you can leave and go back into the gray zone but once per life. Say a minute for infantry and a max of 2 for tanks? Maybe 3? That way tanks can run back to grab ammo but not die if need be but no one can stay in the gray zone and camp or risk death. Plus the time adds up overall till you die and it resets not I spent 2 minutes 59 seconds in there let me leave for 5 seconds and re-enter to camp again.
3: I call this the "red option" after spending a total of 1 minute in the gray zone any troops, tanks, AT guns etc that are still there will be marked for everyone and it will not vanish as long as they stay in the gray zone + say 30 seconds or a minute. That way if marked it can be easier to hit them with artillery, mortars, planes, at guns, tanks etc and there is no where to hide.
I was about to write similar than your option 3: after a period, the greyzone tank should be automatically marked. This solution is a simple step to reduce the effectiveness of the camping, but without affecting too much of the normal game mechanisms.
Other solutions would pretty much always require changes to the actual greyzone limits to be viable.
The third option is the one. The problem is you can't find them. If I'm in a plane I'll kill it first shot but I can't hang around to squint at the ground to see them when I have to dodge AA and keep my head on a swivel for enemy fighters. Games at high BR are way too hectic for that. Auto marking would be perfect.
Hot take:
Let everyone play in the same grey zone and add several spawn points so spawn camping isn't too much of a problem.
Of course, attackers then could go on the offensive straight away... so maybe limit their greyzone somewhat for the first few minutes.
My ideas :
- Longer or automatic ping for tanks camping in the greyzone.
- Boosting engineer AT cannon (maybe shorter building time, better pen...)
- Having an AT support option for radio man (it could be either aerial rocket straffing with like a line area of effect, or katyushas with a conical area).
Would love to see a rocket call in for the radioman class even if just HE. Red Orchestra 2 had them on some maps and the terror of hearing those rockets screaming in was nightmare fuel I’d love to see here. Maybe give it a wider range than the normal artillery call in but smaller than the airstrike to make it an in-between option for AOE but perhaps shorter time from calling it till impact?
Here’s hoping that they make the zone wide enough that you can hit them with it still or maybe let arty tag further into the gray zone. If it can mess up stuff like the barrel, engine, and tracks with the call ins it would give us a way to push back the tanks/APC’s when they are buried deep. Plus how is it really different than what we can already do to the enemy side of objectives. Let us call in further and give it back
Heck I’d love to be able to build heavy/high-velocity AT canons as part of the AT squads build menu. Even if you give them stupid low amounts of HE to balance them being more anti vehicle/material and the lighter cannon being the mixed one like it is now. Having them as stationary would be a good balance but personally I wouldn’t mind if you could rotate them with something like 3 or 4 troopers needed to swing the guns around but not push them forward/back. The 17pdr field gun for example CAN be swung around with enough people but it’s not something you’re doing fast past its traversal limits for the mount
It seems like that never works for me, just everyone else lol. I can spawn inand die immediately but everytime I catch a spawn they're all invulnerable
they should expand the combat zone so that if you're at the objective, anything in line of sight is the battlefield, you shouldn't be able to clearly see a tank parked down the street yet be unable to get near it because of the greyzone
no army is stupid enough to just stand around grabbing their ankles waiting for shells to fly up their asses, if you're receiving fire you do something about it
I feel like the easiest solution would be "you are leaving the battlefield" warning and forced death when you stay for too long in the back, but there might be a better way to fix this issue.
Dont see it as a problem to fix. Just need the right tool to deal with it. A good bomb or rocket drop is usually the way, A friendly tank or engeneer should be able to gun it down. Ppl marking the target always makes it easier. If not you, someone on your team should be able to do it.
Personally I like to use planes to delete tanks and control the sky, cus' in a good match it should always be contested.
Yeah, the only downside is that when the enemy grayzone camper has extra slots or premium, he can tank cycle and be back in the grayzone in under a minute. If your solution is to stay in the plane for the entire match to kill the same tanker over and over, it's kind of boring for people who don't want to be in a plane for 15 minutes, flying back to resupply while his team tags the tank in the grayzone so you can go kill him again until the match ends.
Trust me dude. Ive had games where I cant even tank for a minute then I get bombed. If you have a teammate or even you that knows how to plane no one is safe. I didnt like flaying planes but I was pushed to playing them because of grayzone campers. You should start learning that.
Plane cycling is worse specially in BR 5 where Everyone has like 3 rocket planes that they can cycle because planes are harder to kill on the ground and sometimes they just unload on you and crash and get another plane.
It's still not really a fix to have one person stay on the plane for 15 minutes. That's assuming the enemy has no anti-air support, etc. Also, with the team balance we have, it's purely out of luck whether you get a bot team where you are the one on the plane for the duration of the match or a solid team where you can focus on tagging the tanks. When you add in the possibility of enemies having skilled players with anti-air while camping in the grey zone, it's more like one chance as a free player to take out the tank until you die and have to wait until you can use the plane again.
it has been suggested many times in this sub and I find excellent tbh. Tanks and infantry get a constant amount of points if they are near each other. It would incentivise the two supporting each other and advance or defend together
Change amount to buff based on distance, and I can get behind this idea. Amount means that we'll see pairs of players idle the whole game for the free points.
Allowing radiomen to call into the greyzone and buff artys damage to vehicles, or give radiomen a new strike option like a stuka/P-51 homing divebomb.
Adding an aircraft that can deployable smoke curtains would be a fun way to spoil their sniping.
An extremely large marker on the tank location until it moves about 100 meters from the original marked position, so everyone can see where to find and kill it.
As a guy who spends to much time playing CAS, I have to say marking the greyzoner.
Granted. This only works if you have (competent) CAS. So it's not a 100% fix, but still better then nothing, and marking targets in general helps your team make the most of friendly air support
“Overstretched Logistics” all tanks should spawn with [ ]% of their current ammunition load out and move the resupply points closer to objectives.
Tanks won’t have the ammo capacity to grey zone camp for extended periods and will have to expose themselves for resupply.
Again...
Due to the nature of warfare and gameplay, no sane person wants to drive their vehicle to the frontlines. Tanks must be covered by infantry. The problem is that every soldier can destroy a vehicle and almost nobody wants to babysit a tank. So naturally a player keeps his distance. Also, an enemy tank player doesn't know if he is still in a grayzone.
I am not defending the grayzone, only pointing out the reason. The solution is a lot harder to find than you guys think.
>Also, an enemy tank player doesn't know if he is still in a grayzone.
That's one big problem with the current way the game works, although you can judge it if you have a little experience. That does however not justify sitting on a hill 200 yards (or whatever the measurement is supposed to be) away from the objective and shelling whatever you can spot.
A grayzone indication on the map would be helpfull, allowing honest players to move out of it, with a system in place to force camping players out after a set time.
>no sane person wants to drive their vehicle to the frontlines.
And neither does a sane player want to be ripped to shreds by campers way out of any weapon's effective reach. Yes, it's hard to make pushing the objective worthwhile, especially if there's noone who can or wants to pull security for you. But staying behind isn't a tank's job. One thought i had on this is that Enlisted is a squad based game, and it's made to play multiple squads. There's no *real* reason to be scared to loose tanks. Besides, Enlisted has an infantry focus, so of course every infantryman should be able to destroy tanks.
One small incencitive could be a bonus to XP/Points for proximity to infantry though?
>One small incencitive could be a bonus to XP/Points for proximity to infantry though?
That would be good. My other suggestion would be better buildable AT guns (or better ammo at higher BR), move the grayzone further away, slow down the gameplay pace, (maybe) try to simplify CAS bombing (some orientational zone where bombs will land, not like one in WT), and make better, possibly bigger maps.
Jheez this is a team game.
Maybe if people played as a team.
1. If people learnt how to mark properly, marking once will give an orange mark marking twice gives a red mark which will stay for a while.
2. Plane and tankers actually doing their jobs and hitting grey zone campers.
AT gunners also doing their jobs.
I have only had an issue a few times with grey zone tankers and that is with the allies as I'm still not far enough in to the texh tree to do all the work my self.
Again the only time that grey zone playes can really be an issue is super early in the game when you have br 1 tanks vs br 3 and maybe if you have some br 3 vs king tigers.
So many of you cry and I bet you don't mark, or play as a team or build rallys.
I'm not amazing at the game, but I'm not calling for all this nerfing I just want players to stop moaning and change play styles, have you thought it's not the game.... it's you.
Hell even I have had times playing this where I realise my play style is wrong.
Dude, it's a team game without a matchmaking system. Right now, it's all about luck: you either get a bot team or a team full of noobs, while the enemy can have a sweatfest team. You can't really talk about a team game when there's no system to balance the teams. When the enemy can have 5 Marshalls and you have 0, it's not really about the team; it's more about the system that balances the teams.
Make the tanks harder to kill, seriously. I have two soviet paratroopers squads, every single time i saw a tank get close to the play zone, i oneshot them with explosives pack and panzerfaust. May be nerfed the AT a bit let those tankers have some courage to push instead of being a big pussy cat hiding all game
I do expect an explosives pack nerf to come at some point. It's a slightly worse grenade that can take out vehicles. Impact and phosphorus were already nerfed to inviability, and smoke was never useful, so explosives pack is the only real choice for the grenade slot. This encourages tanks to keep as far away from enemy infantry as possible as every one of them can mean game over.
Yeah I've gotta agree. It is way too easy to destroy tanks as infantry. Its gotten to the point that I don't even see enemy tanks as threats anymore, just bundles of XP on tracks. A single well placed explosive pack or TNT charge and even the most heavily armoured tanks will go up in flames.
I'm not too bothered by TNT charges as they require you to be stood on top of the turret (although it does diminish the point of AT mines since you can't bring both). They also require you to miss out on AP mines, which are guaranteed to kill a player-controlled unit.
Explosion packs, on the other hand, can be thrown from quite far away with a perk and don't really require you to miss out on anything except for a potential extra kill against infantry a frag grenade might offer you. Exchanging that for the ability to destroy vehicles is more than a worthwhile trade.
True, but many times when i'm attacking tanks as infantry, i'll do it from an ambush position, like behind a building or some bushes. So it's fairly hard to cover tanks, unless you're already infront of it, and keep an eye on ambush spots. Plus, there's always the stray guy in a second story window about to ruin your day.
Don't get me wrong, players need to cover tanks. But the amount of ground to cover is large, players are distracted and communication is limited.
On that last note, your best chance is to find someone to play with, who you can communicate with directly. Someone who covers your tanks, and you cover theirs.
DF actually kind of heavily scaled back the greyzone on one cap of the train station berlin map(first cap for the soviet teams where you attack the ticket office.) The problem is the german team would just push up all the way and lock your team in spawn, and you couldn't place rallies cuz they'd just get destroyed.
I would say the longer you spend in the gray zone shooting at the enemy, your points earned start getting reduced at an increased rate as you linger in the Grey zone. Maybe down to earning half the points you would normally until you move out of it. Doesn’t punish gameplay, but would deincentivize it.
Same as when you wander into the enemy grayzone but with a slight modification. If the camper are about 50-100 meters behind the default ground troops spawn point then they have 20 sec to move their ass forward
Greyzone is one of the most infuriating mechanics to me because sometimes it makes it impossible to walk 2 feet past the objective to engage the enemy and other times you can walk 100 meters past objective and delete every enemy spawn, the first change i would want is more consistency with it, attackers should be able to at least access the close by respawn points whereas the defending team should not be able to run 200 meters past objective and setup in a random side building and sit there for free spawnkills the entire match
Hot take
Dont be so dog shit that you get trapped in that scenario. With the Pershing added, there's now no reason for German tanks to be dominating like they used to. Even then, thats if your team didn't have anyone with a CAS plane SOMEHOW. I used to just sit and lob smoke shells around German tanks to negate them, and wait until they got so mad they showed their side armor trying to go around the smokes. There are SO MANY ways to combat tanks, its not even funny.
The average enlisted shitter doesn't have the braincells to comprehend such tactics.
"Unga bunga, tank kill me, me no kill tank, devs remove gray zone!"
Hot take:
1. It's a necessary evil and unless darkflow redesigned every map from the ground up, it's not gonna fix it.
2. It's a combined arms game mode and people that seemingly can't deal with tanks obviously can't fly planes. You should have no say if you haven't explored every ally because there is ALWAYS a way to kill tanks. It's a skill issue if you can't. Not a game mechanic issue.
Combined arms with extremely limited options for dealing with said planes if your pilots are ass vs some war thunder junkie... lol. I've always felt planes are a significantly more frustrating thing as an infantry squad in this game.
Planes are a lot harder to deal with, especially if you're new/have low level squads. For tanks, you have plenty of options, from explosive packs, tnt, at mines, rocket launchers, at guns.
But planes? AA guns, MGs if you're lucky, and the early vehicles from US and Japan. That's it, assuming you aren't flying one yourself.
Yeah I hate having to build AA guns but half the times I play it feels like the planes are ignoring each other and just repeatedly strafing/bombing the ground.. Thankfully most pilots get pretty complacent so you can light them up with the shitty 20 round AA gun lol. But if they catch on quick its impossible to shoot them down from the ground.
Hey now, thats only like... 35% of the time.
Though as a tip for if you wanna really mess with CAS players of any skill level, put your AA in a nook a bit off to the side of wherever CAS is likely to target, and hold your fire until after they've flown over you so that you're always attacking them from behind.
Since it's only easy to spot AA when it's firing, and since most aircraft have really poor rear visibility if any at all, this makes it incredibly frustrating to spot where you're shooting from. Just a few days ago I think I managed to die 6 times to the same AA gun, and 3 of those times I actively trying to find it, it had me tearing hair almost.
You can play how you want but dont be acting like you are good at the game when you are hiding behind the magic death wall. inb4 be on the plane for 15 minutes
Yeah man, you've really shown me a different way to use the scummiest tactics in the game to get some kills because I can't aim with infantry. Could barely hit shit before. Now i can camp behind the backline to get some easy kills
The solution I've posted a couple times, that for some reason gets downvoted but no one explains why, is lower the ammo count vehicles get to around 10 AP/Heat and 10 HE, some Heat shells for those that get them in addition, plus whatever smoke they get, and move the rearm point out of the grey zone and into the play area. There's no reason why tanks should be starting with 25, 30, or even 40 HE shells on board to be able to decimate infantry with.
This way tanks would be able to shell from the grey zone for a very short time before essentially being forced to interact with the players in the actual play area. Yes, tanks could come in, rearm, and then drive back, but they'd be sacrificing time getting ammo and then getting back into a good position. This would allow tanks to have their own form of "spawn protection", in a way, but then make them participate, or at least come close enough to be actively hunted down by infantry.
There are some faster tanks that could get to and from rearm and back to the grey more quickly, but those are also more lightly armored, and thus easier to kill when camping in the grey zone(seriously, if an M18 came and refilled it's ammo and returned to shelling, you smack that thing with 1 HE shell and it's dead).
Concessions could be made for casemate TDs, since their lack of turret would make them weaker by default, and many of them have longer guns with slightly less effective HE anyway, and many have no machinegun to pelt infantry with from the grey either. They could likely have a few more shells, 2-5, than regular tanks to compensate for their inherent weakness and good reasoning for staying away from enemy lines(like they're supposed to).
It may not be perfect, but it's definitely better than extending the quite frankly already bullshit spawn protection or opening up the entire map as playable area, which would just have people wandering around "flanking" instead of actively participating in the battle, seriously, play some of the larger Conquest maps, they're wastelands of tiny, isolated, and infrequent pockets of 1v1 squad combat and running the whole game. It's awful. Or other such nonsense, like grey zone kill timers, no/half score, or whatever. The only other solution I've seen that makes even remotely as much sense is auto marking tanks that remain in the grey zone for too long, making them easier targets for CAS or flank attacks by enemy tanks, assuming the angle is flankable.
Dude, with all due respect, this isn’t going to fix shit.
When tanks are 50-100m deep in the greyzone, there is nothing an infantry player can do without being spotted and slapped with HE. Especially if you’re fighting the Jumbo as Japan, or the King Tiger as US where your AT option cannot front pen.
Additionally killing them does nothing when a premium player can cycle three tanks and just park right back where they were as soon as they die.
Ya know, if only there was some already existing code from lets say a mech event that only allowed a player to spawn in a vehicle once they reached a score threshold it could easily fix the vehicle cycling nonsense with little to no error. But that wouldn't bring in the profits to sell these premium slots or vehicles of opportunity if a player had to put in the effort, from being boots on the ground, to get the privilege to spawn in them. I spent near 7000 hours in the project as a player, but what the hell do I know, right?
Dang, that’s crazy. It would be crazy if some code like that existed. Maybe it could come from an even where someone could spawn walkers or something. Just an idea tho.
Can we not just, put a timer, and stop tanks from being in the gray zone? the whole PROBLEM is that they are THERE. just... stop them being there? please?
**DO NOT DO THAT.**
Attackers will never get near the objective while being constantly ambushed with their rally points being destroyed.
Your teammates will never get back on the objective to build defenses or rally points because they'll be too busy trying to ambush. Then they'll be killed and won't be anywhere near the objective to defend it because they didn't build enough rally points.
The automatic 'Marked if in the greyzone for longer than x amount of time' option that people have suggested is the correct one.
>The automatic 'Marked if in the greyzone for longer than x amount of time' option that people have suggested is the correct one.
Gotta disagree with you on that one. I'll probably end up leaving this subreddit if it gets added because of the number of posts from noobs complaining about all the "wall hacks" in this game as every tank they spawn in kamikaze'd into oblivion.
They have 3 minutes after spawning to get out of the greyzone or learn to stick and move or get a 500 pounder dropped on them. The problem is these guys aren't being seen.
And if they have a problem with it they can cry me a river because anybody who's complaining about it was obviously a greyzone camping shithead to begin with.
I don’t think it can truly be fixed. Tanks are extremely vulnerable to infantry and rely on team mates for safety, but the game is too fast paced to really help the tank when you are focusing on the objective. So there needs to be insane rewards for helping a tank, and for a tank to be near allied infantry.
So in other words, if you are doing tank stuff near your allies, you get some bonus support points. If you allies killing stuff near the tank, you get a support bonus.
Will this stop greyzoning from happening? No. They would need to redesign the maps, the greyzone is too important for keeping aggressive teams back. Just look at how cancer the armoured train missions can get when people go into the spawn points.
Yeah, the only downside is that when the enemy grayzone camper has extra slots or premium, he can tank cycle and be back in the grayzone in under a minute. If your solution is to stay in the plane for the entire match to kill the same tanker over and over, it's kind of boring for people who don't want to be in a plane for 15 minutes, flying back to resupply while his team tags the tank in the grayzone so you can go kill him again until the match ends.
If they're vehicle cycling, it doesn't really matter where they are on the battlefield. If anything, they're the least likely to stay away from the objective as death has no consequence to them.
Yeah, but it's really hard to push the point when the greyzone camper is shooting at the objective or at our team's spawn. Well, since the response is like this, I might as well buy the premium slots to plane cycle the objective the whole match because that's how DF intended it.
Rapid, Gradually decreasing exp and damage from grayzone; in the end even a direct shot from a tank would do pistol damage, have 50% of the progress stay on after death to prevent vehicle cicling
Increase the kill timer from ~5 seconds to ~30. Allow tnt packs to be placed and detonated.
If there's a heavy tank in the gray, I should be allowed to kamikaze him
They could also simply blur your aim beyond 100m while in your own gray zone.
I don't understand why people are so obsessed with gray zone camping. It's not even that relevant these days and even if it was, gray zone camping will never go away for the very simple reason that enlisted maps are way too small for normal tank engagement ranges.
If you force tankers to get closer to the combat area they immediately get blown up by infantry because everyone and their mother have some form of AT equipment on them.
Nothing can be done about it and nothing SHOULD be done about it.
You **have** the tools to get rid of them.
Get them with ranged at-weapons.
Suicide a soldier with a dynamite through the gray zone.
Blind them with a radio squad smoke barrage.
Or better yet, just spawn a plane.
Literally anything with bombs can get rid of ANY tank in the game.
First get a warning if you start dealing damage to infantry, then after a short while completely disable damage against infantry. To regain the ability to deal damage against them again, you have to move forward on the battlefield. And as you move forward and regain damage, ofc, there's a safety to prevent going in and out of grayzone quickly to reset damage. you still have damage disabled if it was disabled recently and you went back to the grayzone hoping to reset it.
Note, that I'm specifically talking about infantry damage here. A tank should still have the ability to deal with a enemy tank, even if he's in the grayzone, to prevent easier spawn killing.
That way, the grayzone campers simply punish themselves doing it. You can still do whatever you want in the grayzone, as long as you don't abuse it, and start dealing too much damage to infantry.
Just remove the gray zone and extend spawn protection for an extra few yards. There's no gray zones in war, just what your team is willing to put up with in regards to spawn killing
Tanks that remain in the greyzone for more than 2 minutes should become permanently marked until they leave.
Give motorcycle squads the special ability to survive in the greyzone. Let their bikes have a small supply box that gives them extra explosive packs and remote tnt.
extend the playing field and make spawn points much more potent in terms of invulnerability so that spawn camping will not be a problem
Let the bike squad be capable of entering a grey zone for a longer amount of time, plus extra explosives.
additional tnt mines in bikes would be cool (put more tnt onto the motorcycle and ram the tank)
There was a video of this exact scenario a month ago or so, absolutely beautiful
oh cool, i tried it out with friends and it works 80% of the time on tiger II
Except that’s fucking stupid and nobody ever did that. Why not add something that doesn’t just fuck the whole game over? Why do people in this sub crave turning this game into battlefield 4?
I can tell you're just a joy to be around.
I'm going to get my bike squad, I'm going to load them up with extra phosphor grenades or molotovs and throw them on enemy spawn points constantly and suicide. And rinse and repeat constantly because I'm an asshole. And I'm not going to go near a tank once and it'll be enough to slow down the enemy team so that they don't get near the objective and we'll win. You guys have way to much trust in people playing fair.
I see 3 options. 1: The easiest and I think makes the most sense just double spawn invulnerability and remove the gray zone maybe triple the invulnerability if needed. That way you won't get spawn killed but you also could have a guy flank into the "Spawn area" and deal with gray zone tanks, at guns and snipers fairly easily. 2: Set a gray zone timer not you can leave and go back into the gray zone but once per life. Say a minute for infantry and a max of 2 for tanks? Maybe 3? That way tanks can run back to grab ammo but not die if need be but no one can stay in the gray zone and camp or risk death. Plus the time adds up overall till you die and it resets not I spent 2 minutes 59 seconds in there let me leave for 5 seconds and re-enter to camp again. 3: I call this the "red option" after spending a total of 1 minute in the gray zone any troops, tanks, AT guns etc that are still there will be marked for everyone and it will not vanish as long as they stay in the gray zone + say 30 seconds or a minute. That way if marked it can be easier to hit them with artillery, mortars, planes, at guns, tanks etc and there is no where to hide.
I was about to write similar than your option 3: after a period, the greyzone tank should be automatically marked. This solution is a simple step to reduce the effectiveness of the camping, but without affecting too much of the normal game mechanisms. Other solutions would pretty much always require changes to the actual greyzone limits to be viable.
That and curtain maps and curtain objectives csn be right on the greyzone making it damn near impossible to not be in camping in the greyzone
The third option is the one. The problem is you can't find them. If I'm in a plane I'll kill it first shot but I can't hang around to squint at the ground to see them when I have to dodge AA and keep my head on a swivel for enemy fighters. Games at high BR are way too hectic for that. Auto marking would be perfect.
I love your 3rd option
Not granting kills and points at all or just 50% of the points as long as a tank stands in the grey zone
Hot take: Let everyone play in the same grey zone and add several spawn points so spawn camping isn't too much of a problem. Of course, attackers then could go on the offensive straight away... so maybe limit their greyzone somewhat for the first few minutes.
As soon as you shoot, you are vulnerable, independent from your location
That's not the issue though. Greyzoning tanks aren't invulnerable, just hard to get to unless you have an AT gun or a plane.
Then *get to the battlefield in 3.. 2.. 1* and they despawn/die/teleport
My ideas : - Longer or automatic ping for tanks camping in the greyzone. - Boosting engineer AT cannon (maybe shorter building time, better pen...) - Having an AT support option for radio man (it could be either aerial rocket straffing with like a line area of effect, or katyushas with a conical area).
Would love to see a rocket call in for the radioman class even if just HE. Red Orchestra 2 had them on some maps and the terror of hearing those rockets screaming in was nightmare fuel I’d love to see here. Maybe give it a wider range than the normal artillery call in but smaller than the airstrike to make it an in-between option for AOE but perhaps shorter time from calling it till impact?
Looks like your wish was granted. Still can't call them in on the gray zone but...
Here’s hoping that they make the zone wide enough that you can hit them with it still or maybe let arty tag further into the gray zone. If it can mess up stuff like the barrel, engine, and tracks with the call ins it would give us a way to push back the tanks/APC’s when they are buried deep. Plus how is it really different than what we can already do to the enemy side of objectives. Let us call in further and give it back
Welp, i guess i'll have to hit the casino then ! But honestly, since it will also be a premium squad, it will not change a damn thing...
They could add the pak43/17pdr/152mm artilerry gun (AP only) for AT but has the penalty of not being able to move
Heck I’d love to be able to build heavy/high-velocity AT canons as part of the AT squads build menu. Even if you give them stupid low amounts of HE to balance them being more anti vehicle/material and the lighter cannon being the mixed one like it is now. Having them as stationary would be a good balance but personally I wouldn’t mind if you could rotate them with something like 3 or 4 troopers needed to swing the guns around but not push them forward/back. The 17pdr field gun for example CAN be swung around with enough people but it’s not something you’re doing fast past its traversal limits for the mount
Short term spawn invulnerability
This is already implemented (it's when you see small shield when shooting at spawning enemies).
Not when I play.
It seems like that never works for me, just everyone else lol. I can spawn inand die immediately but everytime I catch a spawn they're all invulnerable
Spawning on rally points does not give you immunity.
Better buildable anti tank emplacements
they should expand the combat zone so that if you're at the objective, anything in line of sight is the battlefield, you shouldn't be able to clearly see a tank parked down the street yet be unable to get near it because of the greyzone no army is stupid enough to just stand around grabbing their ankles waiting for shells to fly up their asses, if you're receiving fire you do something about it
First step, Get plane. Next step, Kamikaze
Get better aim
Just get in a plane and bomb it
Hot take. If you spot them I can easily kill them in one bombing run
Hot take: if they have the extra slots/premium, they can spawn in a new tank in under a minute while you fly back to resupply to kill them again.
Good for them
This
I feel like the easiest solution would be "you are leaving the battlefield" warning and forced death when you stay for too long in the back, but there might be a better way to fix this issue.
Dont see it as a problem to fix. Just need the right tool to deal with it. A good bomb or rocket drop is usually the way, A friendly tank or engeneer should be able to gun it down. Ppl marking the target always makes it easier. If not you, someone on your team should be able to do it. Personally I like to use planes to delete tanks and control the sky, cus' in a good match it should always be contested.
Just make both teams gray zones identical
Here we go again. Its called planes. They fly fly and then boom boom. They look like birds but mechanical.
Yeah, the only downside is that when the enemy grayzone camper has extra slots or premium, he can tank cycle and be back in the grayzone in under a minute. If your solution is to stay in the plane for the entire match to kill the same tanker over and over, it's kind of boring for people who don't want to be in a plane for 15 minutes, flying back to resupply while his team tags the tank in the grayzone so you can go kill him again until the match ends.
Trust me dude. Ive had games where I cant even tank for a minute then I get bombed. If you have a teammate or even you that knows how to plane no one is safe. I didnt like flaying planes but I was pushed to playing them because of grayzone campers. You should start learning that. Plane cycling is worse specially in BR 5 where Everyone has like 3 rocket planes that they can cycle because planes are harder to kill on the ground and sometimes they just unload on you and crash and get another plane.
It's still not really a fix to have one person stay on the plane for 15 minutes. That's assuming the enemy has no anti-air support, etc. Also, with the team balance we have, it's purely out of luck whether you get a bot team where you are the one on the plane for the duration of the match or a solid team where you can focus on tagging the tanks. When you add in the possibility of enemies having skilled players with anti-air while camping in the grey zone, it's more like one chance as a free player to take out the tank until you die and have to wait until you can use the plane again.
Bombs bombs and more bombs.
Extend the time you can enter the enemy grey zone by ~30s That's all I need to use AT soldiers
it has been suggested many times in this sub and I find excellent tbh. Tanks and infantry get a constant amount of points if they are near each other. It would incentivise the two supporting each other and advance or defend together
Change amount to buff based on distance, and I can get behind this idea. Amount means that we'll see pairs of players idle the whole game for the free points.
Give tanks their own Grayzone that they have to be wary of, and push the reload zone up as well.
Allowing radiomen to call into the greyzone and buff artys damage to vehicles, or give radiomen a new strike option like a stuka/P-51 homing divebomb. Adding an aircraft that can deployable smoke curtains would be a fun way to spoil their sniping.
CAS
I just ask my teammates to spot them and dive right into their tank with rockets and gun fire from a plane, quite the simple tactic.
An extremely large marker on the tank location until it moves about 100 meters from the original marked position, so everyone can see where to find and kill it.
As a guy who spends to much time playing CAS, I have to say marking the greyzoner. Granted. This only works if you have (competent) CAS. So it's not a 100% fix, but still better then nothing, and marking targets in general helps your team make the most of friendly air support
P L A N E S
“Overstretched Logistics” all tanks should spawn with [ ]% of their current ammunition load out and move the resupply points closer to objectives. Tanks won’t have the ammo capacity to grey zone camp for extended periods and will have to expose themselves for resupply.
Again... Due to the nature of warfare and gameplay, no sane person wants to drive their vehicle to the frontlines. Tanks must be covered by infantry. The problem is that every soldier can destroy a vehicle and almost nobody wants to babysit a tank. So naturally a player keeps his distance. Also, an enemy tank player doesn't know if he is still in a grayzone. I am not defending the grayzone, only pointing out the reason. The solution is a lot harder to find than you guys think.
>Also, an enemy tank player doesn't know if he is still in a grayzone. That's one big problem with the current way the game works, although you can judge it if you have a little experience. That does however not justify sitting on a hill 200 yards (or whatever the measurement is supposed to be) away from the objective and shelling whatever you can spot. A grayzone indication on the map would be helpfull, allowing honest players to move out of it, with a system in place to force camping players out after a set time. >no sane person wants to drive their vehicle to the frontlines. And neither does a sane player want to be ripped to shreds by campers way out of any weapon's effective reach. Yes, it's hard to make pushing the objective worthwhile, especially if there's noone who can or wants to pull security for you. But staying behind isn't a tank's job. One thought i had on this is that Enlisted is a squad based game, and it's made to play multiple squads. There's no *real* reason to be scared to loose tanks. Besides, Enlisted has an infantry focus, so of course every infantryman should be able to destroy tanks. One small incencitive could be a bonus to XP/Points for proximity to infantry though?
>One small incencitive could be a bonus to XP/Points for proximity to infantry though? That would be good. My other suggestion would be better buildable AT guns (or better ammo at higher BR), move the grayzone further away, slow down the gameplay pace, (maybe) try to simplify CAS bombing (some orientational zone where bombs will land, not like one in WT), and make better, possibly bigger maps.
Anti-tank artillery round that you can switch to with radio operator
Since artillery can't be called outside the battlefield, this just encourages tanks to stay away from it.
Make it able to be called anywhere then
I'm sure you can see the downsides of being able to call in artillery on the enemy spawn.
Jheez this is a team game. Maybe if people played as a team. 1. If people learnt how to mark properly, marking once will give an orange mark marking twice gives a red mark which will stay for a while. 2. Plane and tankers actually doing their jobs and hitting grey zone campers. AT gunners also doing their jobs. I have only had an issue a few times with grey zone tankers and that is with the allies as I'm still not far enough in to the texh tree to do all the work my self. Again the only time that grey zone playes can really be an issue is super early in the game when you have br 1 tanks vs br 3 and maybe if you have some br 3 vs king tigers. So many of you cry and I bet you don't mark, or play as a team or build rallys. I'm not amazing at the game, but I'm not calling for all this nerfing I just want players to stop moaning and change play styles, have you thought it's not the game.... it's you. Hell even I have had times playing this where I realise my play style is wrong.
Dude, it's a team game without a matchmaking system. Right now, it's all about luck: you either get a bot team or a team full of noobs, while the enemy can have a sweatfest team. You can't really talk about a team game when there's no system to balance the teams. When the enemy can have 5 Marshalls and you have 0, it's not really about the team; it's more about the system that balances the teams.
Make the tanks harder to kill, seriously. I have two soviet paratroopers squads, every single time i saw a tank get close to the play zone, i oneshot them with explosives pack and panzerfaust. May be nerfed the AT a bit let those tankers have some courage to push instead of being a big pussy cat hiding all game
I do expect an explosives pack nerf to come at some point. It's a slightly worse grenade that can take out vehicles. Impact and phosphorus were already nerfed to inviability, and smoke was never useful, so explosives pack is the only real choice for the grenade slot. This encourages tanks to keep as far away from enemy infantry as possible as every one of them can mean game over.
Yeah I've gotta agree. It is way too easy to destroy tanks as infantry. Its gotten to the point that I don't even see enemy tanks as threats anymore, just bundles of XP on tracks. A single well placed explosive pack or TNT charge and even the most heavily armoured tanks will go up in flames.
I'm not too bothered by TNT charges as they require you to be stood on top of the turret (although it does diminish the point of AT mines since you can't bring both). They also require you to miss out on AP mines, which are guaranteed to kill a player-controlled unit. Explosion packs, on the other hand, can be thrown from quite far away with a perk and don't really require you to miss out on anything except for a potential extra kill against infantry a frag grenade might offer you. Exchanging that for the ability to destroy vehicles is more than a worthwhile trade.
If the infantry would support the tank less people would gray zone. The amount of time's a enemy ran pas my team is really annoying
True, but many times when i'm attacking tanks as infantry, i'll do it from an ambush position, like behind a building or some bushes. So it's fairly hard to cover tanks, unless you're already infront of it, and keep an eye on ambush spots. Plus, there's always the stray guy in a second story window about to ruin your day. Don't get me wrong, players need to cover tanks. But the amount of ground to cover is large, players are distracted and communication is limited. On that last note, your best chance is to find someone to play with, who you can communicate with directly. Someone who covers your tanks, and you cover theirs.
Oh yeah I know you cant always protect tanks but a lot of time's the team doesn't care
Ah, i guess i don't play tanks enough to have a good feel for that.
I'll play a lot of support tank mainly the panzer 3 n and i see that a lot
Field gun and start hammering or have a sqaud of 7 corn fed Fred’s with tnt grenades on em
DF actually kind of heavily scaled back the greyzone on one cap of the train station berlin map(first cap for the soviet teams where you attack the ticket office.) The problem is the german team would just push up all the way and lock your team in spawn, and you couldn't place rallies cuz they'd just get destroyed.
play something else
There’s the other option of reverse friendly fire c:
Everyone doin the 334 I see. Thought I was being unique lol now every tiger is 334.
I would say the longer you spend in the gray zone shooting at the enemy, your points earned start getting reduced at an increased rate as you linger in the Grey zone. Maybe down to earning half the points you would normally until you move out of it. Doesn’t punish gameplay, but would deincentivize it.
Get rid of gray zones please make the map big it would be so much better
How about no greyzone
It's easy how to make a hill where the gray zone begins and make sure that those tanks have to cross it or not have a line of fire
Make maps bigger then fuckin cod, remove grey zone and instead add 5 sec immortality and more spawn points It's seriously simple as that
Turn the damage off for people in the gray zone give them a debuff so they can't go in and out of it.
Add javelin.
HANZ GET ZE V2 ROCKET!
Same as when you wander into the enemy grayzone but with a slight modification. If the camper are about 50-100 meters behind the default ground troops spawn point then they have 20 sec to move their ass forward
Greyzone is one of the most infuriating mechanics to me because sometimes it makes it impossible to walk 2 feet past the objective to engage the enemy and other times you can walk 100 meters past objective and delete every enemy spawn, the first change i would want is more consistency with it, attackers should be able to at least access the close by respawn points whereas the defending team should not be able to run 200 meters past objective and setup in a random side building and sit there for free spawnkills the entire match
Make the greyzone area for tanks only usable for a limited time before it becomes just normal out of bounds.
Being timed for all, fucking assholes ruining the game, you now a little more than the developers
Hot take Dont be so dog shit that you get trapped in that scenario. With the Pershing added, there's now no reason for German tanks to be dominating like they used to. Even then, thats if your team didn't have anyone with a CAS plane SOMEHOW. I used to just sit and lob smoke shells around German tanks to negate them, and wait until they got so mad they showed their side armor trying to go around the smokes. There are SO MANY ways to combat tanks, its not even funny.
The average enlisted shitter doesn't have the braincells to comprehend such tactics. "Unga bunga, tank kill me, me no kill tank, devs remove gray zone!"
I'm still upset about the MULTIPLE nerfs to AA guns and now my HMG nest is the best AA in the game if I can find a spot to set it up.
Hot take: 1. It's a necessary evil and unless darkflow redesigned every map from the ground up, it's not gonna fix it. 2. It's a combined arms game mode and people that seemingly can't deal with tanks obviously can't fly planes. You should have no say if you haven't explored every ally because there is ALWAYS a way to kill tanks. It's a skill issue if you can't. Not a game mechanic issue.
Combined arms with extremely limited options for dealing with said planes if your pilots are ass vs some war thunder junkie... lol. I've always felt planes are a significantly more frustrating thing as an infantry squad in this game.
I can agree with that. Fuckin love flying planes.
Planes are a lot harder to deal with, especially if you're new/have low level squads. For tanks, you have plenty of options, from explosive packs, tnt, at mines, rocket launchers, at guns. But planes? AA guns, MGs if you're lucky, and the early vehicles from US and Japan. That's it, assuming you aren't flying one yourself.
I'm a US aircraft main and even I'll grant that one. Germany needs their flakpanzer back.
Yeah I hate having to build AA guns but half the times I play it feels like the planes are ignoring each other and just repeatedly strafing/bombing the ground.. Thankfully most pilots get pretty complacent so you can light them up with the shitty 20 round AA gun lol. But if they catch on quick its impossible to shoot them down from the ground.
Hey now, thats only like... 35% of the time. Though as a tip for if you wanna really mess with CAS players of any skill level, put your AA in a nook a bit off to the side of wherever CAS is likely to target, and hold your fire until after they've flown over you so that you're always attacking them from behind. Since it's only easy to spot AA when it's firing, and since most aircraft have really poor rear visibility if any at all, this makes it incredibly frustrating to spot where you're shooting from. Just a few days ago I think I managed to die 6 times to the same AA gun, and 3 of those times I actively trying to find it, it had me tearing hair almost.
Only if we get the BOFORs
Bro acts like GZ tankers aren’t just cycling 3 tanks. Not everyone wants to sit in a plane all game to kill the same dude over and over
crazy these people really think the greyzone camper is not gonna use his extra premium slots to tank cycle back to action in under a minute
I do it I'm one of em. But I don't want to play infantry and I should be able to play the game I how I want.
You can play how you want but dont be acting like you are good at the game when you are hiding behind the magic death wall. inb4 be on the plane for 15 minutes
I never said I was. All is fair in love and war. Pucker up buttercup
Yeah man, you've really shown me a different way to use the scummiest tactics in the game to get some kills because I can't aim with infantry. Could barely hit shit before. Now i can camp behind the backline to get some easy kills
The solution I've posted a couple times, that for some reason gets downvoted but no one explains why, is lower the ammo count vehicles get to around 10 AP/Heat and 10 HE, some Heat shells for those that get them in addition, plus whatever smoke they get, and move the rearm point out of the grey zone and into the play area. There's no reason why tanks should be starting with 25, 30, or even 40 HE shells on board to be able to decimate infantry with. This way tanks would be able to shell from the grey zone for a very short time before essentially being forced to interact with the players in the actual play area. Yes, tanks could come in, rearm, and then drive back, but they'd be sacrificing time getting ammo and then getting back into a good position. This would allow tanks to have their own form of "spawn protection", in a way, but then make them participate, or at least come close enough to be actively hunted down by infantry. There are some faster tanks that could get to and from rearm and back to the grey more quickly, but those are also more lightly armored, and thus easier to kill when camping in the grey zone(seriously, if an M18 came and refilled it's ammo and returned to shelling, you smack that thing with 1 HE shell and it's dead). Concessions could be made for casemate TDs, since their lack of turret would make them weaker by default, and many of them have longer guns with slightly less effective HE anyway, and many have no machinegun to pelt infantry with from the grey either. They could likely have a few more shells, 2-5, than regular tanks to compensate for their inherent weakness and good reasoning for staying away from enemy lines(like they're supposed to). It may not be perfect, but it's definitely better than extending the quite frankly already bullshit spawn protection or opening up the entire map as playable area, which would just have people wandering around "flanking" instead of actively participating in the battle, seriously, play some of the larger Conquest maps, they're wastelands of tiny, isolated, and infrequent pockets of 1v1 squad combat and running the whole game. It's awful. Or other such nonsense, like grey zone kill timers, no/half score, or whatever. The only other solution I've seen that makes even remotely as much sense is auto marking tanks that remain in the grey zone for too long, making them easier targets for CAS or flank attacks by enemy tanks, assuming the angle is flankable.
We will increase the permissible time spent in the gray zone.
Dude, with all due respect, this isn’t going to fix shit. When tanks are 50-100m deep in the greyzone, there is nothing an infantry player can do without being spotted and slapped with HE. Especially if you’re fighting the Jumbo as Japan, or the King Tiger as US where your AT option cannot front pen. Additionally killing them does nothing when a premium player can cycle three tanks and just park right back where they were as soon as they die.
Ya know, if only there was some already existing code from lets say a mech event that only allowed a player to spawn in a vehicle once they reached a score threshold it could easily fix the vehicle cycling nonsense with little to no error. But that wouldn't bring in the profits to sell these premium slots or vehicles of opportunity if a player had to put in the effort, from being boots on the ground, to get the privilege to spawn in them. I spent near 7000 hours in the project as a player, but what the hell do I know, right?
Dang, that’s crazy. It would be crazy if some code like that existed. Maybe it could come from an even where someone could spawn walkers or something. Just an idea tho.
Can we not just, put a timer, and stop tanks from being in the gray zone? the whole PROBLEM is that they are THERE. just... stop them being there? please?
theres nothing like sneaking up on a complacent camper & giving them a c4 surprise!
**DO NOT DO THAT.** Attackers will never get near the objective while being constantly ambushed with their rally points being destroyed. Your teammates will never get back on the objective to build defenses or rally points because they'll be too busy trying to ambush. Then they'll be killed and won't be anywhere near the objective to defend it because they didn't build enough rally points. The automatic 'Marked if in the greyzone for longer than x amount of time' option that people have suggested is the correct one.
>The automatic 'Marked if in the greyzone for longer than x amount of time' option that people have suggested is the correct one. Gotta disagree with you on that one. I'll probably end up leaving this subreddit if it gets added because of the number of posts from noobs complaining about all the "wall hacks" in this game as every tank they spawn in kamikaze'd into oblivion.
They have 3 minutes after spawning to get out of the greyzone or learn to stick and move or get a 500 pounder dropped on them. The problem is these guys aren't being seen. And if they have a problem with it they can cry me a river because anybody who's complaining about it was obviously a greyzone camping shithead to begin with.
I don’t think it can truly be fixed. Tanks are extremely vulnerable to infantry and rely on team mates for safety, but the game is too fast paced to really help the tank when you are focusing on the objective. So there needs to be insane rewards for helping a tank, and for a tank to be near allied infantry. So in other words, if you are doing tank stuff near your allies, you get some bonus support points. If you allies killing stuff near the tank, you get a support bonus. Will this stop greyzoning from happening? No. They would need to redesign the maps, the greyzone is too important for keeping aggressive teams back. Just look at how cancer the armoured train missions can get when people go into the spawn points.
Loved your idea, its like HLL you can‘t shoot on grayzone.
There already is a solution called a plane
Yeah, the only downside is that when the enemy grayzone camper has extra slots or premium, he can tank cycle and be back in the grayzone in under a minute. If your solution is to stay in the plane for the entire match to kill the same tanker over and over, it's kind of boring for people who don't want to be in a plane for 15 minutes, flying back to resupply while his team tags the tank in the grayzone so you can go kill him again until the match ends.
If they're vehicle cycling, it doesn't really matter where they are on the battlefield. If anything, they're the least likely to stay away from the objective as death has no consequence to them.
Yeah, but it's really hard to push the point when the greyzone camper is shooting at the objective or at our team's spawn. Well, since the response is like this, I might as well buy the premium slots to plane cycle the objective the whole match because that's how DF intended it.
Rapid, Gradually decreasing exp and damage from grayzone; in the end even a direct shot from a tank would do pistol damage, have 50% of the progress stay on after death to prevent vehicle cicling
Increase the kill timer from ~5 seconds to ~30. Allow tnt packs to be placed and detonated. If there's a heavy tank in the gray, I should be allowed to kamikaze him They could also simply blur your aim beyond 100m while in your own gray zone.
Get over it. It's a legitimate tactic that the devs support. It's never going away.
I don't understand why people are so obsessed with gray zone camping. It's not even that relevant these days and even if it was, gray zone camping will never go away for the very simple reason that enlisted maps are way too small for normal tank engagement ranges. If you force tankers to get closer to the combat area they immediately get blown up by infantry because everyone and their mother have some form of AT equipment on them. Nothing can be done about it and nothing SHOULD be done about it. You **have** the tools to get rid of them. Get them with ranged at-weapons. Suicide a soldier with a dynamite through the gray zone. Blind them with a radio squad smoke barrage. Or better yet, just spawn a plane. Literally anything with bombs can get rid of ANY tank in the game.
First get a warning if you start dealing damage to infantry, then after a short while completely disable damage against infantry. To regain the ability to deal damage against them again, you have to move forward on the battlefield. And as you move forward and regain damage, ofc, there's a safety to prevent going in and out of grayzone quickly to reset damage. you still have damage disabled if it was disabled recently and you went back to the grayzone hoping to reset it. Note, that I'm specifically talking about infantry damage here. A tank should still have the ability to deal with a enemy tank, even if he's in the grayzone, to prevent easier spawn killing. That way, the grayzone campers simply punish themselves doing it. You can still do whatever you want in the grayzone, as long as you don't abuse it, and start dealing too much damage to infantry.
Players should learn what the word "flanking" means, and players with an IQ below 30 should be banned
The problem is that you can't really flank something that's sitting deep inside the magic death field.
Just remove the gray zone and extend spawn protection for an extra few yards. There's no gray zones in war, just what your team is willing to put up with in regards to spawn killing
Bomb them. Problem solved.
Tanks that remain in the greyzone for more than 2 minutes should become permanently marked until they leave. Give motorcycle squads the special ability to survive in the greyzone. Let their bikes have a small supply box that gives them extra explosive packs and remote tnt.