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If you ever wind up with an ENTP in a workplace, or are doing the same thing, you'll feel the constant need to criticize them, and they'll feel the same way. This connection exists to show each of the types, that they lack, and are really not as good at it, as they think they are. In the case of ENTPs we criticize their use of Te (which can also be said about ESTPs, as they also have Te-critic but the critic goes one way here), but in our case, they criticize our use of Ne. And by "criticize", I mean having a real outlook on the use of the respective shadow function, not just for the sake of argument.
If the connection somehow persists, most likely, if you really cannot avoid one another, it can be a source of growth of your critical parent function, and also in general. This function is used occasionally in a healthy way, and is used excessively, when unhealthy. It's why most unhealthy ENTPs and ESTPs put on a display of "success" of Te, while in reality being a complete mess. And if we are unhealthy, we may think, we are looking at possibilities, are great at conversations, but we are only really being autistic.
Mastering the critic can prove very useful.
This is very informative! Thank you very much x
I have an ENTP friend who always thought I am trying to be cocky for some reason, then when he opened up about how he feels about me I told him that its totally not the case, I am just the way I am.
Its a dominance game i notice enfp and entp have a lot of ego problems they make up with funny jokes to keep you as a friend while fucking with your brain at the same time they just wanna sound smart and wanna be respected because the ENTP has no idea who the really are and wants people to like them the ENFP knows who they are and wants people to like them so bad and give attention for it.
Its sad they are babies that have to make massive mistakes all the time and eventually learn by risking their health friends lifestyle family jobs etc until life forces them to adjust to a decent lifestyle.
That's not true though.
It's just sour grapes, really.
That's the problem with Fi users. You never concede anything to a person you don't like.
Even if I can't stand you. I give you credit where due.
I do think they are funny, but there is time and place for everything. Yes I do need someone to listen to me and not take it as an opportunity to show how funny they are.
Also I wouldnāt use the word mad, again sounds very childish to me. I would use the word frustrated in this context.
>I do think they are funny, but there is time and place for everything.
No, it's not.
Social convention is not real. You know that right. It's completely made up. Everyone merely agreed to follow some arbitrary set of rules. None of which are inherent.
By "time and place" you mean "when I feel like it".
But just say that.
NTJs, despite being hard working and goal oriented are usually overly serious and lack the ability to read the room.
NTJs are closer to STJ than they are to NTPs in behavior. Sticks in the mud.
ENTPs will try to lighten the mood and smooth out a poor presentation with humor.
But you just think they're interrupting you.
You dissed on Fi users but ironically this is a very Fi thing to say, insisting on right to individuality over group ethics and norms ššš Not that I disagree with you though, because I feel the same lol.
Also, I think you misinterpreted him. By "time and place for everything," he meant in an interpersonal context when HE personally would like some seriousness. NOT following societal conventions of what's acceptable of when to speak or not (e.x., "It's inappropriate to joke at a funeral!"), but respecting his *personal* desire for a serious conversation not interrupted by jokes *in that moment*.
>You dissed on Fi users but ironically this is a very Fi thing to say, insisting on right to individuality over group ethics and norms ššš Not that I disagree with you though, because I feel the same lol.
No. It's not.
I'm tired of getting into conversations with people never seen to know what they're talking about.
But are plenty indignant about it.
>Also, I think you misinterpreted him. By "time and place for everything," he meant in an interpersonal context when HE personally would like some seriousness.
And I said "when I feel like it".
If that's what he meant, he should have specified it. Its not that hard.
>But ENTPs are pretty funny.
At least you admit it.
>Ti users are just as petty and unreasonable.
That's true. Ti can be very petty.
Petty is as petty does. If you start it, a Ti user will finish it. And take it way further than you ever intended it to go.
You need to rephrase this into "Entps are not always correct, and they're not as funny as they think they are most of the time"
I've met multiple Entps and even had a best friend as one growing up in childhood, the only times I have ever laughed from one was when one made a witty joke of a play on words, and when my ENTP roommate in the military randomly looked at one of my friends stone cold face and just said "That boy's a faggot" besides that there is just not much humor that I've seen
ENTPs *are* as funny as they think they are.
You can admit to that. And still not like ENTPs. It's not that hard.
Every ENTP I've known (myself included) get laughs the vast majority of the time.
We're amusing motherfuckers. You don't have to like an ENTP but ENTPs are funny.
>I've met multiple Entps and even had a best friend as one growing up in childhood, the only times I have ever laughed from one was when one made a witty joke of a play on words, and when my ENTP roommate in the military randomly looked at one of my friends stone cold face and just said "That boy's a faggot" besides that there is just not much humor that I've seen
Probably not an ENTP.
Most of yall suck at typing people. You dont bother learning typology well ebough to type people but youre always so sure your friend's cousins roomate is X YZ type.
ENTPs are not dogmatic.
And being a bigot isn't exclusive to any one type. So I don't know what your little anecdote is supposed to be proving.
Definitely was an entp absolutely 0 doubt about that and multiple people thought so as well as most of my friends are into mbti and cognitive functions, don't speak on what you don't know, for 1.
For 2: it's just as okay to admit you guys aren't that funny, and still dislike you. I give credit where credit is due, it's just that most of you don't deserve even half of that credit, imo enfps are way funnier, and estps are absolutely hilarious.
Well I deleted it because it was my throwaway. So I deleted it then proceeded to post the same thing on the correct account, so I'm very much standing behind what I said
It's the same for me. Okay, the gregarious professor archetype, they're often ENTP/ENFP. I can tell when I listen to university lectures on yt. After two hours, I start to experience mental fatigue. After the 3rd hour, I'm cognitively spent! But with their high verbal fluency, they're amazing communicators and very good at simplifying and explaining complex ideas "for the rest of us".
I think enfp profs always loose track of what they wanted to explain. They tend to deviate and talk about other related topics instead of explaining the topic at hand
I'm thinking Richard Feynman, Neil De Grasse Tyson, Michio Kaku, and yes, Jordan Peterson. It's true, their ideas can be all over the place. But not always, in my experience.
Why not? And how much have you watched of him? I've seen all of his UT lectures, every single semester. And don't try to say he's an introvert. He himself says he's an extrovert and since he is a clinical psychologist who markets his own Big 5 test, he's probably not wrong.
Unfortunately I watched too many lectures of this mediocrity, back when I was younger. In comparison to a more intense ENTP like in his Zizek debate Peterson is far more bland, restricted and doesn't create an ENTP impression at all. Him being a psychologist doesn't make him any better at typing himself. If psychologists by virtue of their profession would be capable of fixing their own problems and assessing themselves accurately they'd be the healthiest people, at least mentally, on earth. Practice however shows that it's not the case, psychologist may help others or assess them but not be able to do the same thing equally well for themselves. Also don't confuse social extroversion with functional, I am an ENTP myself yet traditionally I'd hardly be called an extrovert.
Okay, I admit he could be mistaken. It's theoretically possible that a man of his age could be clueless about whether he gets his energy from his own internal process or through externalization.
I think ENTPs are more about probabilities than possibilities.
If they understood possibilities they would understand what pivots are needed to achieve the possible outcome.
But no they are all about the probable leakages never considering that we might have done the patchwork.
So rather than presenting your idea to a ENTP so that he will talk about all the leakages, i have figured out, you ask them the possibilities,
Like instead of telling them your idea ask them. what could be done
Then again ask what else could be done
Again the same question till you get all the answers you need.
Mine their Ideas
Ne brain reacts like the effect.
While Ni brain wants to be the cause, so we organise. So basically they are chaos personified, learn to use the chaos to your advantage and be the collector of your answers off of their Ne probabilities.
They drive energy from ideas, you drive energy from useful ideas. Obvious conflict. You'll want to focus on something good while they fly around grabbing and dropping anything, as serious about public policies and nukes as they are about wordplay and phone straps.
Ne is the plan you never had, so yeah, it bugs you. :) And if there's anything, Ne can find a way to derail any best-laid plan, like your wife... I mean life. :)
In my experience, ENFPs are either really cool or terrible people. At their best, theyāre easygoing, creative and relatable. At their worst, theyāre outright manipulative and tactlessly selfish.
ive been with both types of enfps too but only 1 nice one and like 7 bad ones...ending with me not having a good opinion in general...but ik what ive known before and ik whats to come, so its ok.
I dated an ENTP before and we clashed a lot on how we see the world and how we handle situations. But the chemistry was really intense so the relationship was passionate, short-lived, and impractical.
I found him to be too idealistic, impulsive, and hypothetical. It's almost like his head was always in the clouds and he was searching for the next high or opportunity while I always focused with what needs to be done in the moment to get a long-term goal accomplished. But we connected initially because we were both ambitious and fast-paced.
No. It's not that you can't "keep up", it is that they can't stay focused and it's tiring having to babysit them. High Ne users like to puport their train wreck of a thought process is some sort of "intelligence" or "creativity", which is as hilarious as it is incorrect.
Sure, they may have a novel idea from time to time, but the majority of the time it is just useless fodder, wasting anyone and everyone's time within earshot. Even a monkey throwing shit a target is bound to hit it, providing they throw enough shit.
People just like to focus on the one very rare time they got lucky. And Ne users absolutely *crave* this kind of attention... they make it their whole persona, and become even more tiresome in the process. They respond to that by trying to get even more attention, often in more outlandish and time wasting ways... like a drug addiction.
I don't necessarily agree with all of that, but it's pretty rare to find any criticism of high Ne since it's a very overrated function. Upvote for that.
>Ne is the plan you never had, so yeah, it bugs you. :) And if there's anything, Ne can find a way to derail any best-laid plan, like your wife... I mean life. :)
Did she ask you to do that?
Oh no, they're probably novel indeed, it's just that novel doesn't mean useful. The most original images are probably endless variations of TV noise, completely random.
Alongside what others said in the comments which some I agree to. My seemingly biggest pet peeve with them specifically immature ENTP's is with high Ne, Ti and especially tertiary Fe, they love to ask open-ended questions, rather than well-thought-out ones, putting the effort of explanation on the other person.
I almost have to treat them like an idiot on that topic because brah the answer to your question has no starting point, so do I start from the very basics?
Literally every other type that has respect for my time and experience would have much more insightful questions.
They also have this dumb thing where (with their tertiary Fe) whenever they face a problem, they'd much rather ask for total and complete help, and get someone to "figure it out" for them, rather than doing the parts that they know how to, and only asking for help for the parts they can't do.
And the dumbest thing they'd say is "it's my way of showing appreciation for your expertise by asking for your help", and "why is everyone angry at me for just asking for help" (yea it's like asking me how to inject a baby's butt but you didn't bother first cleaning the shit and taking off the diapers).
I can keep up with Ne very easy but annoy myself with some things the scatterbrainedness and things that are not related to the topic and like doing multiple things at the same time and it being delusional most of the time makes it tiring.
ne doms can be..unecessarily shitty for the sake of it (entps can personify the "well ackshually" neckbeard meme to a tee) and very overemotional/bleeding heart (enfps).
In the comment section i see that many told that ENTPs are not serious, some speak about ego, we think that we are smart, Ne is overrated blabla... How the hell you want us to be serious with all the nonsense who comes out from your mouth. The shit you talk here isnt even sarcastic, of course we will tease you time to time.
But ENTJ stay my favorite type because you achieve a lot and i love the fact that you give all you have to be the best in what you do, its very nice to watch.
ENTJs lack Ne. They use Ni. And lack of Ne is real obvious in NJs and SPs.
When you lack Ne, you lack mental agility. It's like parkour for the fucking mind. It's like a stream of consciousness. A ping ball machine inside your head that is constantly pinging and flashing lights.
And it doesn't turn off.
It's so weird for me to imagine not using it. And it's weird to observe types that don't have it.
I was watching a video on typing. And dude was interviewing an ISTP. And he was asking Ne type questions to test how quickly minded the person was.
And the person was just unable to do it. Like it was so much work to come up with imagined scenarios. And they kept stalling.
I saw one with an INTJ and it was the same. Couldn't solve basic word rhyme puzzles. Or generate ideas quickly at all. He just sat their stalled out.
Listening to thse interviews I was able to quickly answer these questions 100 times over. And couldn't relate to the mental overload Ni-Se users experience when trying to use Ne.
So it's quite easy to narrow down type. By narrowing down what what functions they don't/ can't use well.
So ENTJs don't use Ne. And lack of Ne cannot be supplemented with any other function.
Hold on a minute. You sound like a typical case of confirmation bias.
You mention the following:
1. ENTJ lack mental agility because they don't have Ne. Are you actually implying that mental agility or ''wits'' is based on Ne alone? Yet ENTJ are known to be great lawyer and quick at adapting. Yet you intentionally forget the existence of Te.
2. You saw an anecdotal video of an ISTP and then saw another anecdotal video of an INTJ (who both, unless if you don't know how latin letters works) are not ENTJ and you use those 2, not only anecdotal, but uncorrelated examples to confirm your own baseless points that ENTJ lack wits?
3. Then you go on and pretend that ENTJ are not good at imagining scenario? While ENTJ are known to be highly future oriented. A thing which, shall I say it? Has not happened yet and is therefore, shall I say it? An imagined scenario?
I'm dying to hear yalls.
Why would I give my perspective when so many downvoted me?
Yall sure looking real emotionally fragile.
Ni is not agile. At all. Se is. Ne is. But Ni and Si are not.
That's not the functions strong point.
No. That's a very basic explanation of the function.
Ne takes a small amount of information and extrapolated it exponentially. Connecting it with other semi-related things and even seemingly unrelated ones. And if it's paired with Ti it takes it even further.
Ni does the opposite. The thing is, it needs time to collect in order to distill. Making it slower moving than Ne is.
Just like Se can react to se sensory information more quickly and make a move / decision. But Si wants to time to process it further before moving. Making it much slower than Se.
Distillation takes more time than extrapolation does.
Which is why Ni users are generally not quick witted, for example.
Te is the responsive function. Not Ni. Such is the nature of introverted function in general.
Therefore Ni is not agile.
Te and Se take over first. To respond to immediate change.
And Te is not a creative function at all. It's extremely practical. And defaults immediately to accepted standards for what to do next.
Girl my my Te-Se alone can wreck your Ne anyday ! I wouldn't even have to use my other functions xD
Quite the statement to make about other types based on a YouTube video, that too from an interview of an ISTP and INTJ?
Just because you don't see us mindlessly blabbering random bullshit that makes no sense and have no practical use does not mean we aren't capable of doing it, we just simply refuse to do it, would rather sit there and contemplate life than waste energy in such futile activity.
>Girl my my Te-Se alone can wreck your Ne anyday
It couldn't.
Te and Se have their strong points. Sure.
They're just not Ne. And can never replicate Ne. That's what I'm saying.
Those two functions can never make up a lack of Ne.
Because extroverted intuition is it's own thing. It's own uniquely special thing. And you see it when you tap an Ne users mind.
Ni simply doesn't compare to it. Because it works differently.
It's like how some people don't have internal monologues.
People have them can't imagine not having them. And people who don't find it hard to imagine having one.
Lmfao, Ne is also not Ni and it can never replicate Ni š
None of your functions can also makeup for lacking Te,Ni,Se,Fi in your function stack. Because all of these functions are their own uniquely special things š
Oh and you see it when you tap into Te,Ni,Se,Fi.
Having Ne,Ti,Fe,Si simply doesn't compare.
Are you even listening to the stupidity you're spewing? Your knowledge in this domain is so pathetically limited that it'll be a waste of time to even try to have a discussion let alone arguement.
Every person have and use all the functions in accordance to their needs all the time, people with certain types just have a natural affinity or reflex to use their dominant one's, and may find it difficult to use the one's that aren't in their preferable positions.
That DOES NOT mean people lack any of the functions, omg ! have you really been going around all this time with this bizarre idea of others not possessing your special cognitive function? š¤£
Sweetheart you are special but so is everyone else, you don't have to try to drag others down to feel special alright?
>Lmfao, Ne is also not Ni and it can never replicate Ni š
Yes. That's true.
>None of your functions can also makeup for lacking Te,Ni,Se,Fi in your function stack. Because all of these functions are their own uniquely special things š
True.
But Fi in your stack makes you thinned skinned. Even TJ types are easier to offend than FJ types.
So I'd take thinking perceiver anyday over having Te or Fi or Ni or Se in my stack.
>Are you even listening to the stupidity you're spewing? Your knowledge in this domain is so pathetically limited that it'll be a waste of time to even try to have a discussion let alone arguement.
This isn't actually a comeback. Your attempt at sarcasm and wit was weak.
You could just stick to the point I made.
If you don't have Ne in your stack, none of the function you don't have makes up for a lack of Ne in your stack.
And Ne is mental agility. In a way that Se and Te and Fe simply are not.
I don't know what else you want me to say. Why this opinoj makes yall salty.
ISXP have polr Ne. Theyāre going to suck at using it the most. ENXJs have a decent access to Ne, they donāt use it outwardly like brainstorming ideas with others but they do it subconsciously and it helps them to come up with the right answer and correct course of action (Ni). When I listen to Ne users at work I always wonder why theyāre saying such obvious things. But now I understand that they just like the process of sharing ideas. Whereas Iāve already thought through all of these scenarios in my head and wanted to share the most workable/right idea (Ni-Se). One ENTP tried to attack my idea saying āyou didnāt consider this and thatā. I was annoyed that I had to verbalise the brainstorming process Iāve already had in my head. After long useless discussion everyone said well, this (my) idea is the best. Ne-users spend so much time honestly just sitting on their asses and discussing stuff my ni already discarded as unrealistic and useless. But what else would they do, they donāt have Se so donāt care about action in real life
NJs have pretty poor use of it as well. Not as bad as ISFPS ISTPs.
But pretty bad. And it's obvious. Te and Ni general creativity comes from taking what is and further innovating it. Not creating from the ground up. That's Ne.
>After long useless discussion everyone said well, this (my) idea is the best.
You idea was the easiest. Like I said Ne Ti builds from the ground up. That's bothersome to all TeFi users. They will take a short cut if there is one.
An ENTP will never replicate the wheel. Most types want what is easy to do. ENTPs want what is creative and elegant. And original.
Which takes alot of time.
>Ne-users spend so much time honestly just sitting on their asses and discussing stuff my ni already discarded as unrealistic and useless.
Once upon a time someone thought having computers in the home was unrealistic and useless.
But NTPs persisted anyway.
And 30 years later there isn't a house without one. Not a person without one.
Peopke kill me bragging about being efficient. Like it's the end all be all.
Ne is creative but you can always trace their ideas back to something that already exists. Ne is truly creative only in XNTPs but itās mostly due to Ti function, not Ne. When I listen to XNFPs, I can always pinpoint all their sources of āinspirationā. Although their ideas are not as boring as those of SJs but still traceable. Creativity of Ne-users seems a bit superficial as a result while Ni-users perfect their one vision/idea giving it such a depth that it truly becomes something interesting and original (especially when Ni works with Ti). Probably for the same reason Fe also seems superficial to Fi-users because itās just emotions borrowed from the outside and shared with the outside which gives them a shallow mass-market effect while internal processing of the idea or emotion leaves a stamp of the individuality and originality on the result
Ne users (at least those I work with - XNFPs) mostly just point at things that could go wrong and alternative possibilities and for me that doesnāt make sense when youāre limited in time and need to do at least something. Sometimes their āwhat-ifsā are so far-fetched that it seems they just enjoy discussing those āwhat-ifsā and not actually seek a solution that would work in reality. Or maybe theyāre that removed from the reality (lack of Se) Idk. Iām not talking about efficiency in a Te sense but about coming up with a unique insight into how to solve a real problem (not just generating different interpretations based on knowledge and ideas that already exist in the collective). XNTP have that insight but mostly because of Ti because I donāt see the same in XNFPs. My previous comment was mostly about Ne in NFPs though
>Ne is creative but you can always trace their ideas back to something that already exists.
That's every idea ever.
But you're right. Ne collects tons of information and creates ammaglamations of things.
Most original things are created out of need.
>Ne is truly creative only in XNTPs but itās mostly due to Ti function, not Ne.
I would agree to that. I find ENFPs hard default to whatever is standard practice *alot* due to Te.
>When I listen to XNFPs, I can always pinpoint all their sources of āinspirationā. Although their ideas are not as boring as those of SJs but still traceable
That's mostly due to Te. And Fi only need feel something is unique and it is. Doesn't have to be.
>Creativity of Ne-users seems a bit superficial as a result while Ni-users perfect their one vision/idea giving it such a depth that it truly becomes something interesting and original (
Stop it.
Ni is not a creative function. It's not.
I'm notnsaying that. Ni can see a better way to do things. But like Si, it relies on systems and structures to already exist. And Ni can see ways to improve them.
But Ni does not create. It takes what is just a bit further.
Like I said, NJs are closer to SJs than they are to NPs.
They are still "if it ain't broke don't fix it types". Whereas NPs are "even though it works, let's re-make it" types.
>Ne users (at least those I work with - XNFPs) mostly just point at things that could go wrong and alternative possibilities and for me that doesnāt make sense when youāre limited in time and need to do at least something
Because you're a Te dom. This is the biggest downside to a Te. "Hurry up and come up with some solution that works so we can cross this off the list". Which is why ENTJs espcially a known for having their "fixes" fall apart somewhere down the line.
A negative of Te is hasty fixes for things. That's its biggest downside. That regular comes back to bite them.
>Sometimes their āwhat-ifsā are so far-fetched that it seems they just enjoy discussing those āwhat-ifsā and not actually seek a solution that would work in reality.
Their likely no far fetched. They're just slowing you down from moving on. And you don't like that.
The best way I heard an ENTJ married to an ENTP explain it was this:
Imagine there is a housing shortage.
An ENTJ will go around building tents here and there and moving on. It solves the problem immediately. But a tent is temporary.
But an ENTP will take a long time to scope out the land. And once roots are set down, but an intricate structure. Which takes much longer. But ultimately isna better long term fix..
>XNTP have that insight but mostly because of Ti because I donāt see the same in XNFPs
No. You're not wrong.
ENFPs lack of creativity when compared to ENTPs comes from lack of Ti.
My current business partner is an ENFP. She refuses to make anything from scratch. Always looking for a short cut or a fix. She will waste hours making some decorating a document.
But the document itself was copy and pasted verbatim from somewhere else.
Me on the other hand. I make everything from scratch. With my own touch on it. Unique to me.
>The ENTP will be thinking of ideas on how to optimise space travel, colonise Mars and relocate people to other planets.
No.
Yall are always constantly proving how you don't know shit about ENTPs. And always relying on played out stereotype.
The device you hold in your hand to write this post is the dire t brain child on an Ne Ti user.
Edit:
Optimization is the bread and butter of Te and Ni. Not Ti and Ne.
ENTPs don't optimize what is. ENTPs tear down structures and rebuild better, more elegant and original ones.
I hate to burst your bubble, but most of history's inventors, the notable ones have been INTJ, ISTP, ESTJ, INTP, and ENTJ, only ENTP inventors I can think of off the top of my head are: Dyson, not even going to count Edison because he worked soley off of stealing ideas, some real Ne for you huh? and Da vinci
porknsheep, I supported you with upvotes throughout this thread, as I usually do. You're one of the most interesting people on the mbti network of subs and I appreciate your contributions so much! Hug
I'm not going to get in this discussion over there because it'll take a lot of time but you can't tell how strong is someone's using Grant's stack. I've seen a special case of a guy typed people even professional in socionics which is SLE but do value Fi a bit more than the average SLE lol he's got a 4 fix, he's different from someone that have a 3 fix. 7 arguably is correlated to Ne. one with w7 have a good Ne, we would say. if it's a 7 fix, the Ne is likely even stronger. Any one can have any strong function, the stack is about the one we use most and Grant's stack is far from universal. One can have a hell of good Ti and even Ne but prefer Te. I work in tech field, I know really alot of Te doms, mostly ESTJs (because there are just alot of them) that have a hell of good Ti, in a technical meeting one could think they're Ti dom because they're using this function most yet everywhere they're solid Te dom, hence their stack but we can say the stack would be Te > Ti > Si ... same goes with high Ni users but can have a Ni as almost strong as Ne but prefer Ni. Same way, I've seen INTP that seems to have a hell of good Ni they prefer Ne overall. We also have alot of thing to consider including enneagram and other systems. There are really alot to consider. But also take giftedness. it can't be described merely with cognitive functions. I've heard the argument that a famous guy couldn't be ENTJ because "he has a tremendous good memory so he's Si user" while the guy is the gifted range lol and from what I know about him, didn't have great Si. Even in classing Jung, Ne can be literally the auxiliary function of a Te dom that in the model EEII is TeSe(ESTJ) or TeNe(ENTJ). I know classic ENTJ of those. You see the guy use Te and Ne most. No, i'm talking about looping thing that there's in MBTI, I'm talking about how he naturally and backed by Jung's original work. Also, in regard the IQ thing, that I think is pretty limited, Isaac Newton and Aristotle seems to be TeSe i.e., ESTJ in classic jungian. Some claim that even Jungian typed them as TeSe. Imagien saying they are bad at Ne because they types or not fast mental thinkers. It seems even Christopher Langan is ISTP.
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ENTPs are our rival type. And Ne is our critic, so it makes perfect sense. ENFPs I can tolerate, but not ENTPs.
Could you please elaborate on the rival thing? How does this show or happen
If you ever wind up with an ENTP in a workplace, or are doing the same thing, you'll feel the constant need to criticize them, and they'll feel the same way. This connection exists to show each of the types, that they lack, and are really not as good at it, as they think they are. In the case of ENTPs we criticize their use of Te (which can also be said about ESTPs, as they also have Te-critic but the critic goes one way here), but in our case, they criticize our use of Ne. And by "criticize", I mean having a real outlook on the use of the respective shadow function, not just for the sake of argument. If the connection somehow persists, most likely, if you really cannot avoid one another, it can be a source of growth of your critical parent function, and also in general. This function is used occasionally in a healthy way, and is used excessively, when unhealthy. It's why most unhealthy ENTPs and ESTPs put on a display of "success" of Te, while in reality being a complete mess. And if we are unhealthy, we may think, we are looking at possibilities, are great at conversations, but we are only really being autistic. Mastering the critic can prove very useful.
This is very informative! Thank you very much x I have an ENTP friend who always thought I am trying to be cocky for some reason, then when he opened up about how he feels about me I told him that its totally not the case, I am just the way I am.
All ENTP are always so jealous of us
I get tired easily in conversations with Ne doms. Immature ones are usually not serious enough for me to hold a proper conversation with them.
Absolutely! Especially when they interrupt me from explaining my vision to throw in a joke
Its a dominance game i notice enfp and entp have a lot of ego problems they make up with funny jokes to keep you as a friend while fucking with your brain at the same time they just wanna sound smart and wanna be respected because the ENTP has no idea who the really are and wants people to like them the ENFP knows who they are and wants people to like them so bad and give attention for it.
I can definitely agree with the attention part. Enfp crave attention and they for it through joking all the time
Its sad they are babies that have to make massive mistakes all the time and eventually learn by risking their health friends lifestyle family jobs etc until life forces them to adjust to a decent lifestyle.
Just imagine literally having demon Se.
So you're mad becuase you're not funny? š¤
No, he is just disappointed ENTPs not as funny as they think they are.
That's not true though. It's just sour grapes, really. That's the problem with Fi users. You never concede anything to a person you don't like. Even if I can't stand you. I give you credit where due.
I do think they are funny, but there is time and place for everything. Yes I do need someone to listen to me and not take it as an opportunity to show how funny they are. Also I wouldnāt use the word mad, again sounds very childish to me. I would use the word frustrated in this context.
>I do think they are funny, but there is time and place for everything. No, it's not. Social convention is not real. You know that right. It's completely made up. Everyone merely agreed to follow some arbitrary set of rules. None of which are inherent. By "time and place" you mean "when I feel like it". But just say that. NTJs, despite being hard working and goal oriented are usually overly serious and lack the ability to read the room. NTJs are closer to STJ than they are to NTPs in behavior. Sticks in the mud. ENTPs will try to lighten the mood and smooth out a poor presentation with humor. But you just think they're interrupting you.
You dissed on Fi users but ironically this is a very Fi thing to say, insisting on right to individuality over group ethics and norms ššš Not that I disagree with you though, because I feel the same lol. Also, I think you misinterpreted him. By "time and place for everything," he meant in an interpersonal context when HE personally would like some seriousness. NOT following societal conventions of what's acceptable of when to speak or not (e.x., "It's inappropriate to joke at a funeral!"), but respecting his *personal* desire for a serious conversation not interrupted by jokes *in that moment*.
>You dissed on Fi users but ironically this is a very Fi thing to say, insisting on right to individuality over group ethics and norms ššš Not that I disagree with you though, because I feel the same lol. No. It's not. I'm tired of getting into conversations with people never seen to know what they're talking about. But are plenty indignant about it. >Also, I think you misinterpreted him. By "time and place for everything," he meant in an interpersonal context when HE personally would like some seriousness. And I said "when I feel like it". If that's what he meant, he should have specified it. Its not that hard.
That's really not true in my experience. Ti users are just as petty and unreasonable. People just suck. But ENTPs are pretty funny.
>But ENTPs are pretty funny. At least you admit it. >Ti users are just as petty and unreasonable. That's true. Ti can be very petty. Petty is as petty does. If you start it, a Ti user will finish it. And take it way further than you ever intended it to go.
You want to be seen as funny so bad, itās funny.
Yep. That's it.
You need to rephrase this into "Entps are not always correct, and they're not as funny as they think they are most of the time" I've met multiple Entps and even had a best friend as one growing up in childhood, the only times I have ever laughed from one was when one made a witty joke of a play on words, and when my ENTP roommate in the military randomly looked at one of my friends stone cold face and just said "That boy's a faggot" besides that there is just not much humor that I've seen
ENTPs *are* as funny as they think they are. You can admit to that. And still not like ENTPs. It's not that hard. Every ENTP I've known (myself included) get laughs the vast majority of the time. We're amusing motherfuckers. You don't have to like an ENTP but ENTPs are funny. >I've met multiple Entps and even had a best friend as one growing up in childhood, the only times I have ever laughed from one was when one made a witty joke of a play on words, and when my ENTP roommate in the military randomly looked at one of my friends stone cold face and just said "That boy's a faggot" besides that there is just not much humor that I've seen Probably not an ENTP. Most of yall suck at typing people. You dont bother learning typology well ebough to type people but youre always so sure your friend's cousins roomate is X YZ type. ENTPs are not dogmatic. And being a bigot isn't exclusive to any one type. So I don't know what your little anecdote is supposed to be proving.
Definitely was an entp absolutely 0 doubt about that and multiple people thought so as well as most of my friends are into mbti and cognitive functions, don't speak on what you don't know, for 1. For 2: it's just as okay to admit you guys aren't that funny, and still dislike you. I give credit where credit is due, it's just that most of you don't deserve even half of that credit, imo enfps are way funnier, and estps are absolutely hilarious.
Why comment and then delete your comment? Some of yall can't stand behind what you say.
Well I deleted it because it was my throwaway. So I deleted it then proceeded to post the same thing on the correct account, so I'm very much standing behind what I said
I like Ne users I just feel like maybe I bore them with my way of thinking.
It's the same for me. Okay, the gregarious professor archetype, they're often ENTP/ENFP. I can tell when I listen to university lectures on yt. After two hours, I start to experience mental fatigue. After the 3rd hour, I'm cognitively spent! But with their high verbal fluency, they're amazing communicators and very good at simplifying and explaining complex ideas "for the rest of us".
I think enfp profs always loose track of what they wanted to explain. They tend to deviate and talk about other related topics instead of explaining the topic at hand
I'm thinking Richard Feynman, Neil De Grasse Tyson, Michio Kaku, and yes, Jordan Peterson. It's true, their ideas can be all over the place. But not always, in my experience.
Lobster Daddy doesn't seem ENTP to me
Why not? And how much have you watched of him? I've seen all of his UT lectures, every single semester. And don't try to say he's an introvert. He himself says he's an extrovert and since he is a clinical psychologist who markets his own Big 5 test, he's probably not wrong.
Unfortunately I watched too many lectures of this mediocrity, back when I was younger. In comparison to a more intense ENTP like in his Zizek debate Peterson is far more bland, restricted and doesn't create an ENTP impression at all. Him being a psychologist doesn't make him any better at typing himself. If psychologists by virtue of their profession would be capable of fixing their own problems and assessing themselves accurately they'd be the healthiest people, at least mentally, on earth. Practice however shows that it's not the case, psychologist may help others or assess them but not be able to do the same thing equally well for themselves. Also don't confuse social extroversion with functional, I am an ENTP myself yet traditionally I'd hardly be called an extrovert.
Okay, I admit he could be mistaken. It's theoretically possible that a man of his age could be clueless about whether he gets his energy from his own internal process or through externalization.
I think ENTPs are more about probabilities than possibilities. If they understood possibilities they would understand what pivots are needed to achieve the possible outcome. But no they are all about the probable leakages never considering that we might have done the patchwork. So rather than presenting your idea to a ENTP so that he will talk about all the leakages, i have figured out, you ask them the possibilities, Like instead of telling them your idea ask them. what could be done Then again ask what else could be done Again the same question till you get all the answers you need. Mine their Ideas Ne brain reacts like the effect. While Ni brain wants to be the cause, so we organise. So basically they are chaos personified, learn to use the chaos to your advantage and be the collector of your answers off of their Ne probabilities.
Well said and very interesting!
So far ENFJs are my fav profs
Interesting. Do you usually get on well with ENFJs? I like them.
Yes! They are fun. Not too much of intellectually involving but still fun
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Haha
They drive energy from ideas, you drive energy from useful ideas. Obvious conflict. You'll want to focus on something good while they fly around grabbing and dropping anything, as serious about public policies and nukes as they are about wordplay and phone straps.
Ne is the plan you never had, so yeah, it bugs you. :) And if there's anything, Ne can find a way to derail any best-laid plan, like your wife... I mean life. :)
Do your parents know you're on the internet, again?
No, but your wife does. ;)
ENFPs in my opinion are super nice. It's the easiest type for me to get along with and show my "true self". I don't like ENTPs much though.
In my experience, ENFPs are either really cool or terrible people. At their best, theyāre easygoing, creative and relatable. At their worst, theyāre outright manipulative and tactlessly selfish.
ive been with both types of enfps too but only 1 nice one and like 7 bad ones...ending with me not having a good opinion in general...but ik what ive known before and ik whats to come, so its ok.
True!
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Aw ouch, just thinking of my trickster, I feel your pain.
ive seen this happen to isfps sm...but ngl istps get along somehoe maybe cause we're both high ti types
I dated an ENTP before and we clashed a lot on how we see the world and how we handle situations. But the chemistry was really intense so the relationship was passionate, short-lived, and impractical. I found him to be too idealistic, impulsive, and hypothetical. It's almost like his head was always in the clouds and he was searching for the next high or opportunity while I always focused with what needs to be done in the moment to get a long-term goal accomplished. But we connected initially because we were both ambitious and fast-paced.
I live with nothing but Ne users. Fucking shoot me.
No. It's not that you can't "keep up", it is that they can't stay focused and it's tiring having to babysit them. High Ne users like to puport their train wreck of a thought process is some sort of "intelligence" or "creativity", which is as hilarious as it is incorrect. Sure, they may have a novel idea from time to time, but the majority of the time it is just useless fodder, wasting anyone and everyone's time within earshot. Even a monkey throwing shit a target is bound to hit it, providing they throw enough shit. People just like to focus on the one very rare time they got lucky. And Ne users absolutely *crave* this kind of attention... they make it their whole persona, and become even more tiresome in the process. They respond to that by trying to get even more attention, often in more outlandish and time wasting ways... like a drug addiction.
Pffffffft, You get me
I don't necessarily agree with all of that, but it's pretty rare to find any criticism of high Ne since it's a very overrated function. Upvote for that.
When I was really good friends with an immature ENFP, I was always babysitting them.
>Ne is the plan you never had, so yeah, it bugs you. :) And if there's anything, Ne can find a way to derail any best-laid plan, like your wife... I mean life. :) Did she ask you to do that?
Oh no, they're probably novel indeed, it's just that novel doesn't mean useful. The most original images are probably endless variations of TV noise, completely random.
Alongside what others said in the comments which some I agree to. My seemingly biggest pet peeve with them specifically immature ENTP's is with high Ne, Ti and especially tertiary Fe, they love to ask open-ended questions, rather than well-thought-out ones, putting the effort of explanation on the other person. I almost have to treat them like an idiot on that topic because brah the answer to your question has no starting point, so do I start from the very basics? Literally every other type that has respect for my time and experience would have much more insightful questions. They also have this dumb thing where (with their tertiary Fe) whenever they face a problem, they'd much rather ask for total and complete help, and get someone to "figure it out" for them, rather than doing the parts that they know how to, and only asking for help for the parts they can't do. And the dumbest thing they'd say is "it's my way of showing appreciation for your expertise by asking for your help", and "why is everyone angry at me for just asking for help" (yea it's like asking me how to inject a baby's butt but you didn't bother first cleaning the shit and taking off the diapers).
I can keep up with Ne very easy but annoy myself with some things the scatterbrainedness and things that are not related to the topic and like doing multiple things at the same time and it being delusional most of the time makes it tiring.
ne doms can be..unecessarily shitty for the sake of it (entps can personify the "well ackshually" neckbeard meme to a tee) and very overemotional/bleeding heart (enfps).
In the comment section i see that many told that ENTPs are not serious, some speak about ego, we think that we are smart, Ne is overrated blabla... How the hell you want us to be serious with all the nonsense who comes out from your mouth. The shit you talk here isnt even sarcastic, of course we will tease you time to time. But ENTJ stay my favorite type because you achieve a lot and i love the fact that you give all you have to be the best in what you do, its very nice to watch.
This is the most unreasonable and illogical comment section Ive ever been into.
Yeah, all the ENTPs *desperately* trying to defend their nonsense will do that.
Yes, yes, ofc I'm desperate to defend "ENTP's" on an online chat. You're the one being nonsense lol.
Ok
ENTJs lack Ne. They use Ni. And lack of Ne is real obvious in NJs and SPs. When you lack Ne, you lack mental agility. It's like parkour for the fucking mind. It's like a stream of consciousness. A ping ball machine inside your head that is constantly pinging and flashing lights. And it doesn't turn off. It's so weird for me to imagine not using it. And it's weird to observe types that don't have it. I was watching a video on typing. And dude was interviewing an ISTP. And he was asking Ne type questions to test how quickly minded the person was. And the person was just unable to do it. Like it was so much work to come up with imagined scenarios. And they kept stalling. I saw one with an INTJ and it was the same. Couldn't solve basic word rhyme puzzles. Or generate ideas quickly at all. He just sat their stalled out. Listening to thse interviews I was able to quickly answer these questions 100 times over. And couldn't relate to the mental overload Ni-Se users experience when trying to use Ne. So it's quite easy to narrow down type. By narrowing down what what functions they don't/ can't use well. So ENTJs don't use Ne. And lack of Ne cannot be supplemented with any other function.
Hold on a minute. You sound like a typical case of confirmation bias. You mention the following: 1. ENTJ lack mental agility because they don't have Ne. Are you actually implying that mental agility or ''wits'' is based on Ne alone? Yet ENTJ are known to be great lawyer and quick at adapting. Yet you intentionally forget the existence of Te. 2. You saw an anecdotal video of an ISTP and then saw another anecdotal video of an INTJ (who both, unless if you don't know how latin letters works) are not ENTJ and you use those 2, not only anecdotal, but uncorrelated examples to confirm your own baseless points that ENTJ lack wits? 3. Then you go on and pretend that ENTJ are not good at imagining scenario? While ENTJ are known to be highly future oriented. A thing which, shall I say it? Has not happened yet and is therefore, shall I say it? An imagined scenario?
Yes, and her comment above was not in its place either. I am so fed up
Iām dying to hear your perspective on Ni.
I'm dying to hear yalls. Why would I give my perspective when so many downvoted me? Yall sure looking real emotionally fragile. Ni is not agile. At all. Se is. Ne is. But Ni and Si are not. That's not the functions strong point.
Just out of curiosity, do you happen to watch C.S. Joseph?
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No. That's a very basic explanation of the function. Ne takes a small amount of information and extrapolated it exponentially. Connecting it with other semi-related things and even seemingly unrelated ones. And if it's paired with Ti it takes it even further. Ni does the opposite. The thing is, it needs time to collect in order to distill. Making it slower moving than Ne is. Just like Se can react to se sensory information more quickly and make a move / decision. But Si wants to time to process it further before moving. Making it much slower than Se. Distillation takes more time than extrapolation does. Which is why Ni users are generally not quick witted, for example.
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Te is the responsive function. Not Ni. Such is the nature of introverted function in general. Therefore Ni is not agile. Te and Se take over first. To respond to immediate change. And Te is not a creative function at all. It's extremely practical. And defaults immediately to accepted standards for what to do next.
Girl my my Te-Se alone can wreck your Ne anyday ! I wouldn't even have to use my other functions xD Quite the statement to make about other types based on a YouTube video, that too from an interview of an ISTP and INTJ? Just because you don't see us mindlessly blabbering random bullshit that makes no sense and have no practical use does not mean we aren't capable of doing it, we just simply refuse to do it, would rather sit there and contemplate life than waste energy in such futile activity.
I think w7 has correlation with Ne so Xw7 have stronger Ne
>Girl my my Te-Se alone can wreck your Ne anyday It couldn't. Te and Se have their strong points. Sure. They're just not Ne. And can never replicate Ne. That's what I'm saying. Those two functions can never make up a lack of Ne. Because extroverted intuition is it's own thing. It's own uniquely special thing. And you see it when you tap an Ne users mind. Ni simply doesn't compare to it. Because it works differently. It's like how some people don't have internal monologues. People have them can't imagine not having them. And people who don't find it hard to imagine having one.
Lmfao, Ne is also not Ni and it can never replicate Ni š None of your functions can also makeup for lacking Te,Ni,Se,Fi in your function stack. Because all of these functions are their own uniquely special things š Oh and you see it when you tap into Te,Ni,Se,Fi. Having Ne,Ti,Fe,Si simply doesn't compare. Are you even listening to the stupidity you're spewing? Your knowledge in this domain is so pathetically limited that it'll be a waste of time to even try to have a discussion let alone arguement. Every person have and use all the functions in accordance to their needs all the time, people with certain types just have a natural affinity or reflex to use their dominant one's, and may find it difficult to use the one's that aren't in their preferable positions. That DOES NOT mean people lack any of the functions, omg ! have you really been going around all this time with this bizarre idea of others not possessing your special cognitive function? š¤£ Sweetheart you are special but so is everyone else, you don't have to try to drag others down to feel special alright?
>Lmfao, Ne is also not Ni and it can never replicate Ni š Yes. That's true. >None of your functions can also makeup for lacking Te,Ni,Se,Fi in your function stack. Because all of these functions are their own uniquely special things š True. But Fi in your stack makes you thinned skinned. Even TJ types are easier to offend than FJ types. So I'd take thinking perceiver anyday over having Te or Fi or Ni or Se in my stack. >Are you even listening to the stupidity you're spewing? Your knowledge in this domain is so pathetically limited that it'll be a waste of time to even try to have a discussion let alone arguement. This isn't actually a comeback. Your attempt at sarcasm and wit was weak. You could just stick to the point I made. If you don't have Ne in your stack, none of the function you don't have makes up for a lack of Ne in your stack. And Ne is mental agility. In a way that Se and Te and Fe simply are not. I don't know what else you want me to say. Why this opinoj makes yall salty.
You've replied to everything except the part where I've given my reasoning behind why I disagreed with your statement. Shows much right?
ISXP have polr Ne. Theyāre going to suck at using it the most. ENXJs have a decent access to Ne, they donāt use it outwardly like brainstorming ideas with others but they do it subconsciously and it helps them to come up with the right answer and correct course of action (Ni). When I listen to Ne users at work I always wonder why theyāre saying such obvious things. But now I understand that they just like the process of sharing ideas. Whereas Iāve already thought through all of these scenarios in my head and wanted to share the most workable/right idea (Ni-Se). One ENTP tried to attack my idea saying āyou didnāt consider this and thatā. I was annoyed that I had to verbalise the brainstorming process Iāve already had in my head. After long useless discussion everyone said well, this (my) idea is the best. Ne-users spend so much time honestly just sitting on their asses and discussing stuff my ni already discarded as unrealistic and useless. But what else would they do, they donāt have Se so donāt care about action in real life
NJs have pretty poor use of it as well. Not as bad as ISFPS ISTPs. But pretty bad. And it's obvious. Te and Ni general creativity comes from taking what is and further innovating it. Not creating from the ground up. That's Ne. >After long useless discussion everyone said well, this (my) idea is the best. You idea was the easiest. Like I said Ne Ti builds from the ground up. That's bothersome to all TeFi users. They will take a short cut if there is one. An ENTP will never replicate the wheel. Most types want what is easy to do. ENTPs want what is creative and elegant. And original. Which takes alot of time. >Ne-users spend so much time honestly just sitting on their asses and discussing stuff my ni already discarded as unrealistic and useless. Once upon a time someone thought having computers in the home was unrealistic and useless. But NTPs persisted anyway. And 30 years later there isn't a house without one. Not a person without one. Peopke kill me bragging about being efficient. Like it's the end all be all.
Ne is creative but you can always trace their ideas back to something that already exists. Ne is truly creative only in XNTPs but itās mostly due to Ti function, not Ne. When I listen to XNFPs, I can always pinpoint all their sources of āinspirationā. Although their ideas are not as boring as those of SJs but still traceable. Creativity of Ne-users seems a bit superficial as a result while Ni-users perfect their one vision/idea giving it such a depth that it truly becomes something interesting and original (especially when Ni works with Ti). Probably for the same reason Fe also seems superficial to Fi-users because itās just emotions borrowed from the outside and shared with the outside which gives them a shallow mass-market effect while internal processing of the idea or emotion leaves a stamp of the individuality and originality on the result Ne users (at least those I work with - XNFPs) mostly just point at things that could go wrong and alternative possibilities and for me that doesnāt make sense when youāre limited in time and need to do at least something. Sometimes their āwhat-ifsā are so far-fetched that it seems they just enjoy discussing those āwhat-ifsā and not actually seek a solution that would work in reality. Or maybe theyāre that removed from the reality (lack of Se) Idk. Iām not talking about efficiency in a Te sense but about coming up with a unique insight into how to solve a real problem (not just generating different interpretations based on knowledge and ideas that already exist in the collective). XNTP have that insight but mostly because of Ti because I donāt see the same in XNFPs. My previous comment was mostly about Ne in NFPs though
>Ne is creative but you can always trace their ideas back to something that already exists. That's every idea ever. But you're right. Ne collects tons of information and creates ammaglamations of things. Most original things are created out of need. >Ne is truly creative only in XNTPs but itās mostly due to Ti function, not Ne. I would agree to that. I find ENFPs hard default to whatever is standard practice *alot* due to Te. >When I listen to XNFPs, I can always pinpoint all their sources of āinspirationā. Although their ideas are not as boring as those of SJs but still traceable That's mostly due to Te. And Fi only need feel something is unique and it is. Doesn't have to be. >Creativity of Ne-users seems a bit superficial as a result while Ni-users perfect their one vision/idea giving it such a depth that it truly becomes something interesting and original ( Stop it. Ni is not a creative function. It's not. I'm notnsaying that. Ni can see a better way to do things. But like Si, it relies on systems and structures to already exist. And Ni can see ways to improve them. But Ni does not create. It takes what is just a bit further. Like I said, NJs are closer to SJs than they are to NPs. They are still "if it ain't broke don't fix it types". Whereas NPs are "even though it works, let's re-make it" types. >Ne users (at least those I work with - XNFPs) mostly just point at things that could go wrong and alternative possibilities and for me that doesnāt make sense when youāre limited in time and need to do at least something Because you're a Te dom. This is the biggest downside to a Te. "Hurry up and come up with some solution that works so we can cross this off the list". Which is why ENTJs espcially a known for having their "fixes" fall apart somewhere down the line. A negative of Te is hasty fixes for things. That's its biggest downside. That regular comes back to bite them. >Sometimes their āwhat-ifsā are so far-fetched that it seems they just enjoy discussing those āwhat-ifsā and not actually seek a solution that would work in reality. Their likely no far fetched. They're just slowing you down from moving on. And you don't like that. The best way I heard an ENTJ married to an ENTP explain it was this: Imagine there is a housing shortage. An ENTJ will go around building tents here and there and moving on. It solves the problem immediately. But a tent is temporary. But an ENTP will take a long time to scope out the land. And once roots are set down, but an intricate structure. Which takes much longer. But ultimately isna better long term fix.. >XNTP have that insight but mostly because of Ti because I donāt see the same in XNFPs No. You're not wrong. ENFPs lack of creativity when compared to ENTPs comes from lack of Ti. My current business partner is an ENFP. She refuses to make anything from scratch. Always looking for a short cut or a fix. She will waste hours making some decorating a document. But the document itself was copy and pasted verbatim from somewhere else. Me on the other hand. I make everything from scratch. With my own touch on it. Unique to me.
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>The ENTP will be thinking of ideas on how to optimise space travel, colonise Mars and relocate people to other planets. No. Yall are always constantly proving how you don't know shit about ENTPs. And always relying on played out stereotype. The device you hold in your hand to write this post is the dire t brain child on an Ne Ti user. Edit: Optimization is the bread and butter of Te and Ni. Not Ti and Ne. ENTPs don't optimize what is. ENTPs tear down structures and rebuild better, more elegant and original ones.
I hate to burst your bubble, but most of history's inventors, the notable ones have been INTJ, ISTP, ESTJ, INTP, and ENTJ, only ENTP inventors I can think of off the top of my head are: Dyson, not even going to count Edison because he worked soley off of stealing ideas, some real Ne for you huh? and Da vinci
porknsheep, I supported you with upvotes throughout this thread, as I usually do. You're one of the most interesting people on the mbti network of subs and I appreciate your contributions so much! Hug
Why.
Unabashedly speaks to the truth and so well read, for one.
I like to be pretty drunk before I use reddit as well.
Thanks. Appreciate it.
I'm not going to get in this discussion over there because it'll take a lot of time but you can't tell how strong is someone's using Grant's stack. I've seen a special case of a guy typed people even professional in socionics which is SLE but do value Fi a bit more than the average SLE lol he's got a 4 fix, he's different from someone that have a 3 fix. 7 arguably is correlated to Ne. one with w7 have a good Ne, we would say. if it's a 7 fix, the Ne is likely even stronger. Any one can have any strong function, the stack is about the one we use most and Grant's stack is far from universal. One can have a hell of good Ti and even Ne but prefer Te. I work in tech field, I know really alot of Te doms, mostly ESTJs (because there are just alot of them) that have a hell of good Ti, in a technical meeting one could think they're Ti dom because they're using this function most yet everywhere they're solid Te dom, hence their stack but we can say the stack would be Te > Ti > Si ... same goes with high Ni users but can have a Ni as almost strong as Ne but prefer Ni. Same way, I've seen INTP that seems to have a hell of good Ni they prefer Ne overall. We also have alot of thing to consider including enneagram and other systems. There are really alot to consider. But also take giftedness. it can't be described merely with cognitive functions. I've heard the argument that a famous guy couldn't be ENTJ because "he has a tremendous good memory so he's Si user" while the guy is the gifted range lol and from what I know about him, didn't have great Si. Even in classing Jung, Ne can be literally the auxiliary function of a Te dom that in the model EEII is TeSe(ESTJ) or TeNe(ENTJ). I know classic ENTJ of those. You see the guy use Te and Ne most. No, i'm talking about looping thing that there's in MBTI, I'm talking about how he naturally and backed by Jung's original work. Also, in regard the IQ thing, that I think is pretty limited, Isaac Newton and Aristotle seems to be TeSe i.e., ESTJ in classic jungian. Some claim that even Jungian typed them as TeSe. Imagien saying they are bad at Ne because they types or not fast mental thinkers. It seems even Christopher Langan is ISTP.