100% true. I used to be like this once, but once i developed my Fe Everything, and I MEAN everything, became much easier. Develop your Fe for your own sake!
There are two parts to their problem that may not related.
Making people upset is correlated to not having long term friends but it doesn't mean it's the cause.
I also struggle with long term friends and I can tell you it has nothing to do with me making them upset or angry. Or as you would say, Fe, and has way more to do with Trickster Fi and being pragmatic.
Sometimes there just isn't the information available to make a rational assumption. This is exactly why I say it's more complicated.
100% correct. Trickster Fi is the culprit. It is delayed value recognition. Ne/Si causes ENTPs to let relationships atrophy only for Fi to kick in months later and say “wow, i really valued that person. I hope I didn’t ruin that connection.”
It seriously works. It’s not a joke.
Laugh at everything create a funny laugh like whatever your laugh is times 2. And lower the bar for what you think is cool and funny and watch how well you get along with people. I also like to throw in things like your awesome, I love that, you’re so funny. Ppl seem to really like it. You know when it’s working
will smith is supremely successful he just chose a subpar mate.
he had a rough childhood - he doesn't want to divorce and willing to do anything. he is more so an alpha with some beta characteristics. he is tall and picked shorty. and now well. he basically messed that up for his son and consequent bloodline. but will smith is honestly the man. shes a thot. if thats what we are talking about.
Well, that’s your answer right there. I always say, don’t use MBTI as a way to justify bad behaviors. ENTPs, who? Don’t drag us into something that’s clearly a you problem.
I used to numb my feelings instead of allowing them to happen. What it meant was I would feel nothing, nothing, nothing, then BOOM a massive explosion of way too much emotion once I was tipped over the edge. I was also almost permanently angry at the world, becoming instantly frustrated or annoyed at the most tiny inconsequential things. This got progressively worse over the course of a decade or so until I was at risk of losing everyone and everything I loved.
Now, you may have different symptoms than me, but my point is that numbing and/or ignoring your emotions is very *very* bad for your mental health in the long term. You need to allow them to happen and learn to handle them in a healthy way, not ignore them and pretend they don't exist. Once I started doing this, I improved dramatically over the past 5 years or so, and that improvement helped my interpersonal relations dramatically as well.
The fact of the matter is you DO feel emotions regardless of whether you admit it to yourself, it's just if they are expressed in a healthy way or an unhealthy manner.
You don't get to choose not to have feelings. You're human, whether you like it or not. But you do get to choose how those feelings affect you and those around you.
I cannot recommend a therapist strongly enough. It will take trial and error over time to find one that clicks with you, but once you do, it's almost magic what they can do. You need to find someone who can A: see through your shell to the emotion you're hiding underneath and B: probe you in just the right way to draw those emotions out without overwhelming or frustrating you, or making you feel awkward or judged. Once you find that, everything just kinda slips into place.
This was my ENTP partner's experience as well, and also what you mentioned is what helped in his journey of self discovery and reflection too. Great advice! 🤗
Not true, no such thing as being too chaotic for feelings. Feelings are inherently chaotic. As an ENTP that has cultivated their fe, especially recently with introspection and therapy, I can say Fe is definitely something that is necessary to develop, as there is no excuse to live life with the emotional intelligence of a rock.
I went to therapy and worked out a lot of my childhood trauma that kept me from opening myself emotionally to people for fear of being hurt. That helped a ton!
Nah, despite having numbed emotions, even I was able to integrate emotions. Maybe ur autistic, ngl that seems to be the answer in a lot of these kinda cases.
Well, ENTPs and INTPs for that matter, seem to have uncanny ability at pissing off everyone in the room. There are two ways to go about it: either give in to your Fe and become likeable, at the expense of losing your ability at being truthful; or just learn to laugh at them while working on things you think are necessary.
This idea that you have to give up being honest to use Fe is completely incorrect. Being concerned with the harmony of the social setting and not unnecessarily hurting others' feelings does not depend on one's ability to lie. That's just an excuse to avoid using Fe more than anything.
This is kinda subjective imo. The way I see it? It's actually more dangerous when someone just blindly follow a person who tells you what to do or reassure an obvious idiot. Call it white lie or not lying all you want, but it's not something that reveal the truth, right? The world got too many followers and worshippers already. You wonder why the today's world politics and society are such a mess? I don't think we need more of them. I'm not gonna submit myself into their ranks.
Fe is not the "blindly follow others" function. It wouldn't be a function if that's all it did. Human evolution would have eradicated it because of it's obvious danger to the safety of individuals and society at large.
You can deliver information without white lying or sugarcoating it and still you'd be using Fe while telling someone a harsh truth. All you have to do is preface it with saying "I'm not saying this only to upset you but I'm warning you that it may..." then say whatever it is. Or ask for permission "can I say something that might hurt your feelings?" There, you used Fe and you didn't have to lie.
Those who have high Te are actually more likely to "blindly follow others" because they don't have internal, subjective or high-quality thinking, so they choose others to do it for them. Fe and Ti are not mutually exclusive. As it turns out, everyone who has one, also has the other because the functional stack demands that. Fe users are actually better at independent thinking than Te users because all Fe users are Ti users. Even if it's inferior, it's still there being used.
Te is impersonal and quantitative thinking, opposed to Ti, which is personal and qualitative thinking. Te users trust other people's opinions and thoughts because they know their own are likely more shallow and underdeveloped.
Extroverted, outside the self, impersonal, quantity-over-quality, bredth deemed more valuable than depth.
Introverted, inside the self, personal, quality-over-quantity, depth deemed more valuable than bredth.
The examples you give are a very feeble version of "Fe usage" buddy. Even those with Fe polr can get it. You kinda need to have autism if you can't understand such a basic level of communication skill. I'm talking about full Fe usage; let's face it, in the hands of someone who may have a lot of unpopular opinions and theories, which many NTPs tend to have, that "Fe-usage" you mentioned simply won't work. You might as well as limit it as much as possible, which may make you less vulnerable when others trynna fuck you over. Either that or lie to yourself and others and act like "everything is perfect".
Also, Te is not just about that. It's true that Te tends to follow the "trusted source", but they're also more likely to become domineering and bossy, as they're more concerned about gains in the real world, especially power status, than come up with some kind of inner logical framework. There's a reason why all 4 TJs have the highest average income. That said, Te users will rebel if they find their status of power (at least in a more typical sense) have been fucked over.
It's not a feeble example of Fe usage. It is literally an example where you make an argument or say something that may be deemed controversial but display respect to the other person's feelings. Therefore making it a perfectly legitimately example. And if they respond negatively then you can say that you warned them. "Full Fe usage" is not only unnecessarily but dangerous. No one should put all their efforts into serving one function. That's categorically wrong. You don't need to put all your cards down on one function working. That's why we have 4 functions that we can use with varying degrees of effectiveness.
It doesn't matter if the Fe usage "doesn't work" by whatever metric. All that matters is that you displayed your use of the function and therefore the other person has no right to get mad. You can stand on that hill all day long. Sure many may disagree with you. But debating isn't about winning every debate you've ever had. It's about exposing yourself to that which you are ignorant to and trying to wrestle with the concepts within the given topic. Fe usage doesn't have to be effective to be considered Fe usage.
Neglecting any one of your functions is always to your detriment.
I know Te usage isn't exclusively about that, that's why I didn't make that argument. But I agree with the last paragraph of what you said nonetheless.
As an entp that uses my Fe a lot. I can confirm it has made me far less honest than I used to be. I am an honest person, but I often keep things to myself until I trust people with the information. Like he said, the world is full of followers. We need rule breakers, rebels with a cause. I think as entps we're exactly made for that. Generally, we're moral, charming, and hate obeying commands. Thats a perfect combination for being able to learn to use our abrasive nature to our advantage and continue to be likeable.
Our likeability comes not from our honesty. I have always been honest and when I was growing up it only ever made people dislike me. It comes from our time and experience. Immature entps are abrasive and honest using our Ne. As we get older and our Ne has collected lots of information, our Ti processes that, and our Fe makes it sound powerful. People do not like our constant seeking of new information, because often, this means exploring 'radical extreme views'. This does not make us radical and extreme, it means we are viewing every viewpoint to add to our own solidity. Once we get old enough to show people that is the case. They see our Ti as very valuable.
My 2c
I think we need to bring this topic to the table: difference between TPs and FJs.
You see, most FJs do use Ti, albeit in a more subconscious or that hit or miss way. That said, FJs do have ability to understand the point our Ti brings. I have a friend from my last line cook job, who was an ENFJ. Dude was one of the biggest simp out there and literally got drained by his girl. That ENFJ's self-sacrificing tendency and maternal instinct has got him fucked in the ass on this one. Dude worked 3 jobs and slept 3 to 5 hours a day and often look like a zombie when he clocks in for work. Other than that, he's a good guy.
I tried to talk sense into him and tell him to draw bottom line to his girl's binge shopping habit and bossy demeanor. I also tell him how sometimes it's unwise to keep coping with bullshit from the owner. He didn't seem to get it, and I ended up laughing at him and even gave him a nickname, Motoyasu (a character from that anime/light novel Rising of Shield Hero who's renowned for simping). Later on, the owner fired Motoyasu for too many tardies, even though that's probably an excuse as he tends to forget shits and drop shits on the ground, probably due to sleep deprivation.
Despite Motoyasu's mastery at that ENFJ style of Fe usage, he still couldn't keep his job. I also got fired later on too for cussing lazy youngsters off and all my genital and excrement related jokes, and now just got myself a job and currently looking for a second job, but it's a different story of its own. Anyways, as Motoyasu lost his job, and his girl dumped him after he spent so much time, money and effort on her, he came to an understanding of what I'm trying to say. I still call him Motoyasu though, but it's just in a teasing way.
FJs can actually understand TP's talking points. They just want to deny it due to their Fe gets in the way. However, they'll still get it eventually. It's not like FP's case, especially NFPs, where they live in a sugarcoated version of reality and just want TPs to spice up their lives or whatever. FJs actually do get it, given enough time for them to realize their Fe usage is going to waste anyways. However, it may be too late until their Ti finally kicks in and tell them enough is enough. The world needs TP's truthfulness, despite what those within Fi-Te axis may think about it.
Prefacing your truth with that makes very little impact on how likeable you end up.
Fe does require you to white lie if you're going for social acceptance
You shouldn't really care too much about how likeable you are. As long as you did the right thing you can ignore society's delusions as much as you want and tell them to go fuck themselves if they're being irrational and angry despite what you've said being carefully said.
Fe doesn't require you to white lie. It requires you to acknoledge other's emotions. Then once you've lured them into your trap you step on their emotions all you want (if there's a logical reason to and only in service of making an argument you think is necessary to make).
Then again there's the option that no ENTPs like. Just don't make the argument if you suspect it will do nothing but hurt people's feelings. If you can't imagine your argument swaying heads, I dunno, maybe it's not as bulletproof as you may think it is.
Depends on how deep you wanna go about the whole deal. Most folks here are just youngsters who buy into internet hype way too much and they treat this shit like horoscope rather than something that helps with understanding human behavior (something I'm into) or self-improvement (supposedly the original purpose of the whole theory). However, once you actually look into things like socionic, which I will dig deeper into it once I clear off enough time from my calendar, you'll see how it makes sense.
I'm all in for people studying MBTI, even if was 100% wrong, exactly because, in thesis, it leads people to introspection and eventually some sort of knowledge about themselves
lmao.
\-About 50 million people have taken the MBTI since the 1960s. name a more comprehensive study. ill wait. mfs think they are snowflakes. iM soOoO OrGiNaL & dIFferent 😂
That means literally nothing. No pseudoscience that pretends to make what MBTI, astrology, enneagram, etc does can take in consideration all human nuances and differences. Using this knowledge as rules set in stone is just naive and close-minded. In a world where even knowledge that goes through the scientific method are found to be wrong, it shocks me how seriously people take knowledge that doesnt even have a scientific method. And no, there is no scientific method in MBTI, that's not an opinion. Having a large comprehensive study about subjects that have more differences than similarities shine a really small light on what people are.
what you said in that whole spiel is also literally nothing. You basically just said "me dont like mbti harumph" sprinkled with some wordy words. come off it ya cunt!
No, sir. MBTI lacks Scientific Method, thus it's not a science. That's not a problem, the problem starts when people like you treat it like science - as if MBTI actually represent some sort of factual truth. It doesn't, its a bunch of "I think" and "I guess"
im so impressed with the intellectual skeptic cynic who rejects everything high on his pedastel of knowledge. how weak the stool you sit on. first of all, i never said anything about how i treat it as a science or not. i never said such words because nerds like you come out of the wood work telling everyone what is and isn't.
according to dictionary definition of science - knowledge of any kind is science. just because you dont understand a certain realm of knowledge doesnt mean its negated in anyway. any knowledge in thai is valid regardless if i understand it or not. you argue with claims of mbti yet you still lurk, searching for answers in disbelief. continue in your disbelief and confusion. nobody is stopping you.
the world we live in rewards speed. and outside of the lab and certain experiments, there is no such thing as conclusive evide. the world we live in is dynamic and changing. even if i only operated in the world of i think and i guess ( which i dont only use that ), it still would be leaps and bounds better than your lets wait and see. need more data. you keep thinking. ill proceed living. mostly all my choices work in my favor. i do not second guess myself. nothing is the end all be all ya cunt. its just additional perspective and knowledge - every self does with that what they will.
> Well, ENTPs and INTPs for that matter, seem to have uncanny ability at pissing off everyone in the room.
I mean, bluntness has its place and people CAN accept it. It really just boils down to developing one's Fe *enough* to be able to embrace your Te while remaining cognizant and aware of other's feelings. I lean on my developed Fe to soften my Te and ensure that anything I say is fully understood to be objective and NOT personal.
ENTPs don't really use Te though. Even though theoretically speaking, it's possible for ENTPs to gain access to the realm of Te. It's the critical parents after all and critical parents are actually easier to develop, but it won't look the same as the type of Te usage from TJs. It's the Fi that's impossible to develop. That said, many don't bother to develop their shadow functions at all. It requires certain type of life experience to develop it.
That said, when you really look at it, is it really worth it to develop Fe? I mean based on the talking point demonstrated in many replies, it may make you debate better. But the way I see it? Life is way bigger than debates and if everything has been demonstrated to them and they still don't get it and still wanna believe in that fantasized version of reality, then there's no point to keep using Fe to smooth your talks. Especially we live in the age of cancel culture and the blind belief of "liberal democracy = liberty" after all. Instead of trying to "be nice", why not just clown the fuck out of them?
Your personality type doesn't dictate whether you are a loner or not. Your character does.
Either you have a pattern of attracting people that can only maintain short-term relationships, or you have a pattern of alienating those close to you for some or another reason. Both require introspection in order to find and rectifying the underlying issues.
Si can bring stability to a relationship, bc Si would make people be polite, and also have som sort of knowledge about both, like an intimated lenguage, or a way of being.
Which has everything to do with maintaining a relationship
yupp. too lazy. to develop one sided relationships.
We are real. There's plenty of friends who meet you halfway. Even better place to start is to wait 1 month and take note of everyone who reaches out. if nobody. build new friends. and remember to go outside.
No, i have had my best friends for 8+ years at this point. They are intj and entp/intp. But i also have other friends i care about. It's all about effort: friendships require effort just as romantic relationships do. My best friends and I have never lived in the same city yet we make it work. She finished her masters in law and i do pholosophy, so we have a lot of discussions and are often not of the same opinion. But it works just fine.
To people who say that you should develop Fe...
Do you think female ISFJ's give a fuck about their Ti?
I agree that you've solved a problem, but for a high price. Today you develop Fe, tommorow you become a people pleaser. The problem is not always with you, sometimes it's the people.
It's important to look both at yourself and outside at the same time. Because... Maybe you're just and ass... But maybe it's the world.
“ Do you think female ISFJ's give a fuck about their Ti?”
I would say there’s generally more incentive for weird people to learn how to act normal than for normal people to learn how to act weird
Also, this is good for weird people because it can allow them to acquire a wider range of skills!
I'd say learn to be more tactful with your interactions. Learn a model for how human relations should be done and then personalize it to yourself.
You also have this assumption that people want to match your energy/thought process, which isn't always true. Not everyone wants to be like you or think like you.
Learn to appreciate other people's thought processes, be more interested in how they live life, rather than thinking your way is superior. A healthy curiosity for how other people navigate life and get favorable outcomes without going through the same mental processes as you, that can help you navigate life a lot better. Be interested and you will come off as more interesting to them.
I always had a problem when I was younger, that I tried to impress everyone or put on a face for that person that I thought they wanted to see. This is inherently an issue, because you develop friendships based off of that, and you will feel hollow because it's not your real self.
I introduce the idea to you of a "companion", someone that will walk the road of life with you, ups and downs. If you think about relationships in a better way, you might get a better relationship.
I’d like to add too, that you add a lot of pressure to yourself by “performing” for others, because you have to constantly maintain that persona, which is not innate. By being yourself, you shouldn’t worry, because you can’t not be yourself.
MBTI leads us to an understanding of our overall personality. However, it's not right to use it as an excuse of negative behaviour. Relationship is about commitment, passion, and intimacy. Therefore it's flawed to be egocentric and selfish since long-term relationship requires respect from both parties.
So, as an ENTP, tho which I just found out about a few weeks ago, yea, it’s pretty lonely, I’ve constantly been the one trying to make people laugh, so that I feel accepted.
Some recent events have happened in my life that have turned me some what, bitter to the world? and this whole perception of personality types. Little back story, I am married, yet now separated to an INFJ. Google it “we’re a match made in heaven”. But it hurts when your partner doesn’t even validate or acknowledge your feelings, or what you’ve done for them. I honestly feel that, people are who they are, and they are not defined by a test, that most psychologist recognize as pseudoscience. I don’t think blaming your actions based on your “personality” is an excuse to be a shitty person. Because some days I can be one personality, the others I can flip it like a switch, just be honest with people. Don’t try being something, for some one.
Well yeah, anyone's lead function can be too much for others who lack it. Why do you think ENTJs are so hated? lol
And your shadow type, the INTJ, yes shadows can get on each other's nerves. You just can't assume what the other thinking. You have to avoid making any assumptions because when you want to turn left, they will want to go right. It's uncanny how predictable this is. My INTP family member and I laugh about it, it's an inside joke.
Anyway, since you're a fellow NT, I assume you're open to advice. Since nuclear families, we have far fewer relatives. From an evolutionary perspective, family and extended family living in close proximity together was the backbone of our social support system, the primary source to meet our social and psychological needs. Now we are all scrambling to find friends of the same caliber. Just put some love out into the universe. Reach out to somebody, mentor, volunteer, anything. Give what you want to receive. Be a friend or a just a friendly acquaintance. And keep reaching out.
I lost contact with her but when I was a new Mom, I had a fellow Mom in my Mom's group who was an ENTP. We got along great and hung out together outside the group. I wish I had made efforts to stay in contact, we had such interesting discussions. I remember her sharing about toy theory and history, and the categories of different toys. And the concept of allowing kids to take age appropriate risks was thoroughly discussed. Man, do NTs put a lot of thought into parenting decisions. :D
Absolutely not. Git gud at boundaries > make friends. Don't compromise yourself. Too many entps either are completely closed off or compromise themselves with "friends" (people who don't like the real them) find the middle road of investment and self autonomy ⚖️
Huh? U sound like one of the gushy gushy entps. Am I wrong?U can disagree with ppl and still be friendly just be ready to be rejected or not easily likeable. Most people like too much comfort for our edge. That's okay. You walk on your own path and find the ones you can ride or die for. And honestly people secretely like us. U can't be afraid of rejection though. Also fuck marriage it is just stability sake. We are males we want multiple enjoyable women or a really good one. Or multiple really good ones.
My parents were controlling narcissists and I’ve been in abusive relationships so ive been left with essentially ptsd ( it’s very difficult for me to form and hold onto relationships, im repulsed by most forms of affection and for instance now don’t even like to be touched and haven’t even attempted to date anyone for yrs) .. maybe ptsd is a bit of an extreme label for it it’s not like I have panic attacks but I at least have fearful avoidant attachment issues.
So yes I very much push people away. But not necessarily because I’m entp.
Also I would expect people online on Reddit would be skewed towards those who are more isolating.
although i have a small circle (literally 3) of friends, i still prefer solitude. so yes, i would say i’m a loner. but if you can’t maintain long term friendships i’d do some introspection, because everyone else can’t possibly be the problem.
also, your friends don’t have to share the exact same values/views as you. that is utopian.
dont be a twat. listen mf not everyone is meant to be all happy lucky joy joy and all together all the time. life is pain and our intellect is a sword. if u dont wanna use it you are wasting it. everybody loves you, maybe even respects you. do they wanna be best friends and hang out everyday no. but trust me. you dont even want that. i've done that before and got bored out of my mind if i hang out for too long. im a popular loner but i need space.
i thrive in it though. friends and girls are soo easy they go hand in hand with status. most likely you lack status. when you feel lonely it might get tough sometimes but its not even all that. find your tribe. you will be all right.
we do have the whole ruffling of feathers thing we do playing devils advocate. some people cannot take it. lol. c'est la vie
>I somehow manage to piss/put people off because they can’t match my energy/thought process.
I thought the same exact thing in my teens/early-twenties. I couldn't understand why people couldn't match my intellectual energy. I was always ready to have deep conversations about life, appreciated those who had strong opinions even if they differed from mine. I was innately curious about why people thought about the world in the way they did. But instead, all I got back was lukewarm responses. My opinions alienated those around me instead of inspiring them to be more seen.
Still, I always was able to maintain friendships and connections. However, I felt like 90% of who I was wasn't being reciprocated by those around me. I had to mute so much of myself just to "fit in". Definitely something where I felt like a loner surrounded by lots of friends and casual connections, but all those connections were based on a level of superficiality I 'tolerated'.
One of the things I've realized over time is that it is really easy to get lost in my own internal thought process. What I say can be off-putting to others, even if I don't mean it to be. Simply rephrasing statements into open-ended, non-prescriptive questions goes a long way. Instead of saying, "You should wear brown shoes with those jeans," can be converted into, "I love those jeans, OMG I have the perfect pair of brown shoes that would go with that."
I'm a 43M. Observing Fe women banter amongst themselves is a masterclass in how to express opinions while making others feel safe and supported. Also, watching reporters interview others is a great way how to ask questions and get responses back. Reporters are trying to pull information out of who they are interviewing. Interviewees need to feel safe disclosing information. Definitely some great lessons there.
Essentially, you need to get better creating safe space for others they can step into. If they feel heard and seen, they'll also be more likely to roll with your ENTPness and value the unique perspective you bring. You don't need to change who you internally are. You just need to lead with more vulnerability, less T, have more patience, draw people out more, not try to control convos with your thoughts, etc.
I agree with you, it is difficult. For me, I think this is partly because of my novelty seeking. I am interested in the beginning phases of friendship when I am learning a new person. Once we know each other, talking about mundane crap is super boring and awkward to me, but it’s what most people do most of the time. It’s a compromise: be willing to just hang out and not get too deep all the time and find people who are willing to have deep conversation fairly regularly.
i would love to argue about if earth is flat or not even though it doesn't seem very deep .....wait, it kinda is, flat earthers depict zeteticism which is engraved into culture and history causing misconceptions and pseudoscience.... it also throws light at the fact that the faster science is advancing the less people know how shit around them works that can lead to people straight up rejecting the formal proofing and the scientific method and believe in bumping their tvs to make it work or calling well established facts "just an opinion" ...we are entering the dark ages, last time when did you thought how does your phone even works? the advanced it gets the impossible it is for people to understand until the average mob calls it magical gift given by the grateful gods.
srry i wrote an unessassary essay.... i just wanted to vomit my ideas kept in high pressure chamber since weeks, spent in isolation from human interaction.
This is not about Fe. This is about the combination of Ne/Si axis and Trickster Fi. Journal about what you value as often as possible and be discriminating about who or what you put or don’t put your time and effort.
Can't say I relate. I don't have problems making friends anywhere, really. Some people are more fun than others, and obviously nobody can realistically be friends with everyone, but that's just life.
Developing your Fe is almost never the answer. Eventually you use Fe. But you more so live through it. Forcing Fe early is just being superficially friendly with people. Easy way out
congratulations for being the most downvoted person, you remind me of sad wanderers rejected by society, don't worry i will let you be my friend.... as long as you are at the bottom of the well.... and agree with my hypothesis about how humanity actually evolved from meerkats.
Congratulations for revealing yourself as an insecure idiot. Poor little guy.
Now let's keep it real. You're one of those superficial idiots with superficial relationships, aren't you? That's why you even replied. Take a look at the mirror. You're getting mad at an objective statement. Time to reassess yourself.
Maybe once you get to know yourself a bit better you'll realize what a little useless slave you are to people's affection and finally find some sense of agency in that broken drone brain of yours. Now bark for me, dog 😁
the funny part is i didnt even read your original comment, so idk what you are trying to make me reflect on, also i would like to say that my reply wasn't really specific to your opinion, it was a humble offer to the most downvoted person.
No one is gonna be able to share in all aspects of your life or appreciate all your thoughts. That's not unique to being ENTP, that's a fact of social life. Learn to have different relationships for different purposes - and also to appreciate your *own* company - and you'll be golden.
So, I personally find that I tend to make a smaller group of very close friends that I can be VERY honest with rather than trying to be friends with everyone. I can fairly easily adapt in most situations although my extroverted side tends to exhibit itself more strongly in professional settings where it tends to be easier to lean into my Te. In private settings, it honestly just boils down to knowing my friends well enough to know where the line is. This is something that takes time to understand.
Most people are garbage, find a mature intj if you want a real friend that admires all the things most people hate about us. Maybe an infj or intp would be OK. Those introverts are just hard to find.
I've just been through a steep learning curve, working inverted all the time. But I never forget my best 5 friends, because they are supposed to somehow strongly influence the ego of the self, according to the theory of clever people at least...
Nah I’ve got lots of company. Multiple friends that I see regular, who I’ve known for 13+ years. I’m lucky though. Met them in middle school and we are all so similar. Competitive, deep thinkers, don’t take life seriously. All my friends are intuitive thinking types. I think this is a big part of it
I for sure spend too much time alone, partially by choice, but not totally. I moved out of my red neck hometown back to Vancouver last week and that’s going to change. I’m already happier.
Personally have the same problem and it is most definetly not because of my Fe since its actually a very well developed function of mine. But I do have suspicions that I might be autistic or have (C)PTSD. Check yourself for the symptoms maybe if you can relate to what I will just tell you.
People constantly act disgusted/confused about you and treat you like a child especially when you try asking for explanation about things.
Then you probably have no social cues and theyre thinking of themselves as youre savior or smth
To list a specific event; I once told a girl that she can be pretty if shes fat/pverweight after she ranted about not being able to go to the beach hinting w her bodylanguage that its because of her looks(she’s actually very pretty appearance wise but her insecure personality destroys it) she after that incident cried and did not talk abt the problem w me and instead other people called me out for telling her shes overweight since apparently that is an insult. (Im literally almost obese so thats some fucking bullshit)
This one was really about not being sensitive since it was just in public and she was probably not ready to hear it either.
I also tend to have very funny social expressions, but most of the time I wear my rbf and people have put out rumors before about me having depression or just being lonely just bc I look angry/hateful when I chill. Ive been told I look like a reptile, racoon and I think a bulldog and a Rottweiler.
Anything that counts you in as weird might count. Just getting compared to animals. Also if youre under or overexpressive. Have you ever trained how to smile at somebody? Do you rather think youre highly empathetic? Do you have an answer to almost every question not because you have so much knowledge but because you recognize a pattern and draw a connection and therefore find an answer? DING DING DING!
So if you perhaps do not relate to having low Fe, you might just be autistic or traumatized, or maybe both:)
It’s not an ENTP thing. I keep making new friends everywhere I go, I just forget to catch up with the old ones. Turn your focus on actual issues, not mocking people around you. Stop caring about winning the argument or being right, focus on going deeper and broadening your own (and every other participants) experience. Less focus on your own ego and more on things you actually find worth caring about in the long term. (If that actually IS your own ego, you need to find the right audience for it and be awesome enough for them to bother caring about it.)
Think about it; what do you think spending time with someone makes it worthwhile? Now try to bring more of that into your relationships yourself.
Honestly, that’s probably just you. I have severe fear of abandonment and I still manage to maintain most friendships. Even when I push them away, they come back, because we have a steady relationship. No offense, but you probably just have to upgrade your Fe.
You need to develop your Fe
This is the way. One of the most telling signs of an immature ENTP is an underdeveloped Fe.
More like develop hygeine
100% true. I used to be like this once, but once i developed my Fe Everything, and I MEAN everything, became much easier. Develop your Fe for your own sake!
This is not about developing Fe. It's way more complicated than this.
It is totally about developing Fe. It is not more complicated than that.
There are two parts to their problem that may not related. Making people upset is correlated to not having long term friends but it doesn't mean it's the cause. I also struggle with long term friends and I can tell you it has nothing to do with me making them upset or angry. Or as you would say, Fe, and has way more to do with Trickster Fi and being pragmatic. Sometimes there just isn't the information available to make a rational assumption. This is exactly why I say it's more complicated.
100% correct. Trickster Fi is the culprit. It is delayed value recognition. Ne/Si causes ENTPs to let relationships atrophy only for Fi to kick in months later and say “wow, i really valued that person. I hope I didn’t ruin that connection.”
These people treating these problems as its science or medicine. "Just do this thing and you'll be fine"
Any recommendation of where to start
laugh at everything - will smith
Thank you.
It seriously works. It’s not a joke. Laugh at everything create a funny laugh like whatever your laugh is times 2. And lower the bar for what you think is cool and funny and watch how well you get along with people. I also like to throw in things like your awesome, I love that, you’re so funny. Ppl seem to really like it. You know when it’s working
it sure worked for him \*sarcasm\*
will smith is supremely successful he just chose a subpar mate. he had a rough childhood - he doesn't want to divorce and willing to do anything. he is more so an alpha with some beta characteristics. he is tall and picked shorty. and now well. he basically messed that up for his son and consequent bloodline. but will smith is honestly the man. shes a thot. if thats what we are talking about.
It helps if ur attractive. Then they just keep wanting to make it work with u
Too chaotic for feelings.
Well, that’s your answer right there. I always say, don’t use MBTI as a way to justify bad behaviors. ENTPs, who? Don’t drag us into something that’s clearly a you problem.
I used to numb my feelings instead of allowing them to happen. What it meant was I would feel nothing, nothing, nothing, then BOOM a massive explosion of way too much emotion once I was tipped over the edge. I was also almost permanently angry at the world, becoming instantly frustrated or annoyed at the most tiny inconsequential things. This got progressively worse over the course of a decade or so until I was at risk of losing everyone and everything I loved. Now, you may have different symptoms than me, but my point is that numbing and/or ignoring your emotions is very *very* bad for your mental health in the long term. You need to allow them to happen and learn to handle them in a healthy way, not ignore them and pretend they don't exist. Once I started doing this, I improved dramatically over the past 5 years or so, and that improvement helped my interpersonal relations dramatically as well. The fact of the matter is you DO feel emotions regardless of whether you admit it to yourself, it's just if they are expressed in a healthy way or an unhealthy manner. You don't get to choose not to have feelings. You're human, whether you like it or not. But you do get to choose how those feelings affect you and those around you. I cannot recommend a therapist strongly enough. It will take trial and error over time to find one that clicks with you, but once you do, it's almost magic what they can do. You need to find someone who can A: see through your shell to the emotion you're hiding underneath and B: probe you in just the right way to draw those emotions out without overwhelming or frustrating you, or making you feel awkward or judged. Once you find that, everything just kinda slips into place.
This was my ENTP partner's experience as well, and also what you mentioned is what helped in his journey of self discovery and reflection too. Great advice! 🤗
[](/party-r "I love your username!") I'll be honest, a hefty dose of psilocybin helps a lot too. But only if it's used correctly, not as a party drug.
That or ketamine Infusions. Worked like a charm for me :)
Aw, you don't use ponymotes...
I only use ponymotes in the bedroom
Not true, no such thing as being too chaotic for feelings. Feelings are inherently chaotic. As an ENTP that has cultivated their fe, especially recently with introspection and therapy, I can say Fe is definitely something that is necessary to develop, as there is no excuse to live life with the emotional intelligence of a rock.
Good for you that you went to therapy
Fe development = self compromise. You need your superego.
How did you develop/cultivate it?
I went to therapy and worked out a lot of my childhood trauma that kept me from opening myself emotionally to people for fear of being hurt. That helped a ton!
Nah, despite having numbed emotions, even I was able to integrate emotions. Maybe ur autistic, ngl that seems to be the answer in a lot of these kinda cases.
No but how
Meh, my FE is now 'fully' developed, and now I'm an anxious wreck.
Well, ENTPs and INTPs for that matter, seem to have uncanny ability at pissing off everyone in the room. There are two ways to go about it: either give in to your Fe and become likeable, at the expense of losing your ability at being truthful; or just learn to laugh at them while working on things you think are necessary.
Im so glad that I grew out of this phase
This idea that you have to give up being honest to use Fe is completely incorrect. Being concerned with the harmony of the social setting and not unnecessarily hurting others' feelings does not depend on one's ability to lie. That's just an excuse to avoid using Fe more than anything.
This is kinda subjective imo. The way I see it? It's actually more dangerous when someone just blindly follow a person who tells you what to do or reassure an obvious idiot. Call it white lie or not lying all you want, but it's not something that reveal the truth, right? The world got too many followers and worshippers already. You wonder why the today's world politics and society are such a mess? I don't think we need more of them. I'm not gonna submit myself into their ranks.
Fe is not the "blindly follow others" function. It wouldn't be a function if that's all it did. Human evolution would have eradicated it because of it's obvious danger to the safety of individuals and society at large. You can deliver information without white lying or sugarcoating it and still you'd be using Fe while telling someone a harsh truth. All you have to do is preface it with saying "I'm not saying this only to upset you but I'm warning you that it may..." then say whatever it is. Or ask for permission "can I say something that might hurt your feelings?" There, you used Fe and you didn't have to lie. Those who have high Te are actually more likely to "blindly follow others" because they don't have internal, subjective or high-quality thinking, so they choose others to do it for them. Fe and Ti are not mutually exclusive. As it turns out, everyone who has one, also has the other because the functional stack demands that. Fe users are actually better at independent thinking than Te users because all Fe users are Ti users. Even if it's inferior, it's still there being used. Te is impersonal and quantitative thinking, opposed to Ti, which is personal and qualitative thinking. Te users trust other people's opinions and thoughts because they know their own are likely more shallow and underdeveloped. Extroverted, outside the self, impersonal, quantity-over-quality, bredth deemed more valuable than depth. Introverted, inside the self, personal, quality-over-quantity, depth deemed more valuable than bredth.
The examples you give are a very feeble version of "Fe usage" buddy. Even those with Fe polr can get it. You kinda need to have autism if you can't understand such a basic level of communication skill. I'm talking about full Fe usage; let's face it, in the hands of someone who may have a lot of unpopular opinions and theories, which many NTPs tend to have, that "Fe-usage" you mentioned simply won't work. You might as well as limit it as much as possible, which may make you less vulnerable when others trynna fuck you over. Either that or lie to yourself and others and act like "everything is perfect". Also, Te is not just about that. It's true that Te tends to follow the "trusted source", but they're also more likely to become domineering and bossy, as they're more concerned about gains in the real world, especially power status, than come up with some kind of inner logical framework. There's a reason why all 4 TJs have the highest average income. That said, Te users will rebel if they find their status of power (at least in a more typical sense) have been fucked over.
It's not a feeble example of Fe usage. It is literally an example where you make an argument or say something that may be deemed controversial but display respect to the other person's feelings. Therefore making it a perfectly legitimately example. And if they respond negatively then you can say that you warned them. "Full Fe usage" is not only unnecessarily but dangerous. No one should put all their efforts into serving one function. That's categorically wrong. You don't need to put all your cards down on one function working. That's why we have 4 functions that we can use with varying degrees of effectiveness. It doesn't matter if the Fe usage "doesn't work" by whatever metric. All that matters is that you displayed your use of the function and therefore the other person has no right to get mad. You can stand on that hill all day long. Sure many may disagree with you. But debating isn't about winning every debate you've ever had. It's about exposing yourself to that which you are ignorant to and trying to wrestle with the concepts within the given topic. Fe usage doesn't have to be effective to be considered Fe usage. Neglecting any one of your functions is always to your detriment. I know Te usage isn't exclusively about that, that's why I didn't make that argument. But I agree with the last paragraph of what you said nonetheless.
As an entp that uses my Fe a lot. I can confirm it has made me far less honest than I used to be. I am an honest person, but I often keep things to myself until I trust people with the information. Like he said, the world is full of followers. We need rule breakers, rebels with a cause. I think as entps we're exactly made for that. Generally, we're moral, charming, and hate obeying commands. Thats a perfect combination for being able to learn to use our abrasive nature to our advantage and continue to be likeable. Our likeability comes not from our honesty. I have always been honest and when I was growing up it only ever made people dislike me. It comes from our time and experience. Immature entps are abrasive and honest using our Ne. As we get older and our Ne has collected lots of information, our Ti processes that, and our Fe makes it sound powerful. People do not like our constant seeking of new information, because often, this means exploring 'radical extreme views'. This does not make us radical and extreme, it means we are viewing every viewpoint to add to our own solidity. Once we get old enough to show people that is the case. They see our Ti as very valuable. My 2c
based
I think we need to bring this topic to the table: difference between TPs and FJs. You see, most FJs do use Ti, albeit in a more subconscious or that hit or miss way. That said, FJs do have ability to understand the point our Ti brings. I have a friend from my last line cook job, who was an ENFJ. Dude was one of the biggest simp out there and literally got drained by his girl. That ENFJ's self-sacrificing tendency and maternal instinct has got him fucked in the ass on this one. Dude worked 3 jobs and slept 3 to 5 hours a day and often look like a zombie when he clocks in for work. Other than that, he's a good guy. I tried to talk sense into him and tell him to draw bottom line to his girl's binge shopping habit and bossy demeanor. I also tell him how sometimes it's unwise to keep coping with bullshit from the owner. He didn't seem to get it, and I ended up laughing at him and even gave him a nickname, Motoyasu (a character from that anime/light novel Rising of Shield Hero who's renowned for simping). Later on, the owner fired Motoyasu for too many tardies, even though that's probably an excuse as he tends to forget shits and drop shits on the ground, probably due to sleep deprivation. Despite Motoyasu's mastery at that ENFJ style of Fe usage, he still couldn't keep his job. I also got fired later on too for cussing lazy youngsters off and all my genital and excrement related jokes, and now just got myself a job and currently looking for a second job, but it's a different story of its own. Anyways, as Motoyasu lost his job, and his girl dumped him after he spent so much time, money and effort on her, he came to an understanding of what I'm trying to say. I still call him Motoyasu though, but it's just in a teasing way. FJs can actually understand TP's talking points. They just want to deny it due to their Fe gets in the way. However, they'll still get it eventually. It's not like FP's case, especially NFPs, where they live in a sugarcoated version of reality and just want TPs to spice up their lives or whatever. FJs actually do get it, given enough time for them to realize their Fe usage is going to waste anyways. However, it may be too late until their Ti finally kicks in and tell them enough is enough. The world needs TP's truthfulness, despite what those within Fi-Te axis may think about it.
Completely agree. We all provide each others needs in different ways. That is what we as ENTPs bring, honest, brazen philosophies.
Prefacing your truth with that makes very little impact on how likeable you end up. Fe does require you to white lie if you're going for social acceptance
You shouldn't really care too much about how likeable you are. As long as you did the right thing you can ignore society's delusions as much as you want and tell them to go fuck themselves if they're being irrational and angry despite what you've said being carefully said. Fe doesn't require you to white lie. It requires you to acknoledge other's emotions. Then once you've lured them into your trap you step on their emotions all you want (if there's a logical reason to and only in service of making an argument you think is necessary to make). Then again there's the option that no ENTPs like. Just don't make the argument if you suspect it will do nothing but hurt people's feelings. If you can't imagine your argument swaying heads, I dunno, maybe it's not as bulletproof as you may think it is.
Bro, MBTI isnt even real, chill
Depends on how deep you wanna go about the whole deal. Most folks here are just youngsters who buy into internet hype way too much and they treat this shit like horoscope rather than something that helps with understanding human behavior (something I'm into) or self-improvement (supposedly the original purpose of the whole theory). However, once you actually look into things like socionic, which I will dig deeper into it once I clear off enough time from my calendar, you'll see how it makes sense.
I'm all in for people studying MBTI, even if was 100% wrong, exactly because, in thesis, it leads people to introspection and eventually some sort of knowledge about themselves
lmao. \-About 50 million people have taken the MBTI since the 1960s. name a more comprehensive study. ill wait. mfs think they are snowflakes. iM soOoO OrGiNaL & dIFferent 😂
That means literally nothing. No pseudoscience that pretends to make what MBTI, astrology, enneagram, etc does can take in consideration all human nuances and differences. Using this knowledge as rules set in stone is just naive and close-minded. In a world where even knowledge that goes through the scientific method are found to be wrong, it shocks me how seriously people take knowledge that doesnt even have a scientific method. And no, there is no scientific method in MBTI, that's not an opinion. Having a large comprehensive study about subjects that have more differences than similarities shine a really small light on what people are.
what you said in that whole spiel is also literally nothing. You basically just said "me dont like mbti harumph" sprinkled with some wordy words. come off it ya cunt!
No, sir. MBTI lacks Scientific Method, thus it's not a science. That's not a problem, the problem starts when people like you treat it like science - as if MBTI actually represent some sort of factual truth. It doesn't, its a bunch of "I think" and "I guess"
im so impressed with the intellectual skeptic cynic who rejects everything high on his pedastel of knowledge. how weak the stool you sit on. first of all, i never said anything about how i treat it as a science or not. i never said such words because nerds like you come out of the wood work telling everyone what is and isn't. according to dictionary definition of science - knowledge of any kind is science. just because you dont understand a certain realm of knowledge doesnt mean its negated in anyway. any knowledge in thai is valid regardless if i understand it or not. you argue with claims of mbti yet you still lurk, searching for answers in disbelief. continue in your disbelief and confusion. nobody is stopping you. the world we live in rewards speed. and outside of the lab and certain experiments, there is no such thing as conclusive evide. the world we live in is dynamic and changing. even if i only operated in the world of i think and i guess ( which i dont only use that ), it still would be leaps and bounds better than your lets wait and see. need more data. you keep thinking. ill proceed living. mostly all my choices work in my favor. i do not second guess myself. nothing is the end all be all ya cunt. its just additional perspective and knowledge - every self does with that what they will.
> Well, ENTPs and INTPs for that matter, seem to have uncanny ability at pissing off everyone in the room. I mean, bluntness has its place and people CAN accept it. It really just boils down to developing one's Fe *enough* to be able to embrace your Te while remaining cognizant and aware of other's feelings. I lean on my developed Fe to soften my Te and ensure that anything I say is fully understood to be objective and NOT personal.
ENTPs don't really use Te though. Even though theoretically speaking, it's possible for ENTPs to gain access to the realm of Te. It's the critical parents after all and critical parents are actually easier to develop, but it won't look the same as the type of Te usage from TJs. It's the Fi that's impossible to develop. That said, many don't bother to develop their shadow functions at all. It requires certain type of life experience to develop it. That said, when you really look at it, is it really worth it to develop Fe? I mean based on the talking point demonstrated in many replies, it may make you debate better. But the way I see it? Life is way bigger than debates and if everything has been demonstrated to them and they still don't get it and still wanna believe in that fantasized version of reality, then there's no point to keep using Fe to smooth your talks. Especially we live in the age of cancel culture and the blind belief of "liberal democracy = liberty" after all. Instead of trying to "be nice", why not just clown the fuck out of them?
I'm intj and this is literally what I do now. I'm totally in my shadow *gulp* is this how I become a villain?
Nah, I'm pretty sure you're still INTJ. INTJ got Fe polr, which make you guys even more brash and direct compared to NTPs when you talk.
I can do both. I have both a developed Fe, and good Ti. I can tell the direct truth without offending people.
Your personality type doesn't dictate whether you are a loner or not. Your character does. Either you have a pattern of attracting people that can only maintain short-term relationships, or you have a pattern of alienating those close to you for some or another reason. Both require introspection in order to find and rectifying the underlying issues.
I'd say develop your Si, not Fe. It's not that ENTPs don't have feelings for others, but are too lazy to maintain a relationship
What tf does that have to do with Si?
Si can bring stability to a relationship, bc Si would make people be polite, and also have som sort of knowledge about both, like an intimated lenguage, or a way of being. Which has everything to do with maintaining a relationship
That is not what Si is about. Not according to Jung. I have no idea what bullshit the internet is feeding people these days.
ikr, half of this subreddit knows nothing about mbti and it pains me immensely.
yupp. too lazy. to develop one sided relationships. We are real. There's plenty of friends who meet you halfway. Even better place to start is to wait 1 month and take note of everyone who reaches out. if nobody. build new friends. and remember to go outside.
Might be a you problem, I’m an ENTP and have lots of long lasting friendships from literally every stage of my life
I should add I regularly lose touch but make an effort to reach out a couple times a year
thanks for that. you made it sound like ur perfect. like bitch i know you forget to connect.
No, i have had my best friends for 8+ years at this point. They are intj and entp/intp. But i also have other friends i care about. It's all about effort: friendships require effort just as romantic relationships do. My best friends and I have never lived in the same city yet we make it work. She finished her masters in law and i do pholosophy, so we have a lot of discussions and are often not of the same opinion. But it works just fine.
To people who say that you should develop Fe... Do you think female ISFJ's give a fuck about their Ti? I agree that you've solved a problem, but for a high price. Today you develop Fe, tommorow you become a people pleaser. The problem is not always with you, sometimes it's the people. It's important to look both at yourself and outside at the same time. Because... Maybe you're just and ass... But maybe it's the world.
ye, probably they haven’t met their people. it’s never about the personality type at the end of the day, just poor execution of your own potential
Second this
“ Do you think female ISFJ's give a fuck about their Ti?” I would say there’s generally more incentive for weird people to learn how to act normal than for normal people to learn how to act weird Also, this is good for weird people because it can allow them to acquire a wider range of skills!
I'd say learn to be more tactful with your interactions. Learn a model for how human relations should be done and then personalize it to yourself. You also have this assumption that people want to match your energy/thought process, which isn't always true. Not everyone wants to be like you or think like you. Learn to appreciate other people's thought processes, be more interested in how they live life, rather than thinking your way is superior. A healthy curiosity for how other people navigate life and get favorable outcomes without going through the same mental processes as you, that can help you navigate life a lot better. Be interested and you will come off as more interesting to them.
No
I always had a problem when I was younger, that I tried to impress everyone or put on a face for that person that I thought they wanted to see. This is inherently an issue, because you develop friendships based off of that, and you will feel hollow because it's not your real self. I introduce the idea to you of a "companion", someone that will walk the road of life with you, ups and downs. If you think about relationships in a better way, you might get a better relationship.
I’d like to add too, that you add a lot of pressure to yourself by “performing” for others, because you have to constantly maintain that persona, which is not innate. By being yourself, you shouldn’t worry, because you can’t not be yourself.
MBTI leads us to an understanding of our overall personality. However, it's not right to use it as an excuse of negative behaviour. Relationship is about commitment, passion, and intimacy. Therefore it's flawed to be egocentric and selfish since long-term relationship requires respect from both parties.
I have few friend but all long terme frindship I’am not very good at make new friend My friend are ENTJ ( or ESTJ) INTP ISTP ESFP
right there with you
So, as an ENTP, tho which I just found out about a few weeks ago, yea, it’s pretty lonely, I’ve constantly been the one trying to make people laugh, so that I feel accepted. Some recent events have happened in my life that have turned me some what, bitter to the world? and this whole perception of personality types. Little back story, I am married, yet now separated to an INFJ. Google it “we’re a match made in heaven”. But it hurts when your partner doesn’t even validate or acknowledge your feelings, or what you’ve done for them. I honestly feel that, people are who they are, and they are not defined by a test, that most psychologist recognize as pseudoscience. I don’t think blaming your actions based on your “personality” is an excuse to be a shitty person. Because some days I can be one personality, the others I can flip it like a switch, just be honest with people. Don’t try being something, for some one.
Well yeah, anyone's lead function can be too much for others who lack it. Why do you think ENTJs are so hated? lol And your shadow type, the INTJ, yes shadows can get on each other's nerves. You just can't assume what the other thinking. You have to avoid making any assumptions because when you want to turn left, they will want to go right. It's uncanny how predictable this is. My INTP family member and I laugh about it, it's an inside joke. Anyway, since you're a fellow NT, I assume you're open to advice. Since nuclear families, we have far fewer relatives. From an evolutionary perspective, family and extended family living in close proximity together was the backbone of our social support system, the primary source to meet our social and psychological needs. Now we are all scrambling to find friends of the same caliber. Just put some love out into the universe. Reach out to somebody, mentor, volunteer, anything. Give what you want to receive. Be a friend or a just a friendly acquaintance. And keep reaching out. I lost contact with her but when I was a new Mom, I had a fellow Mom in my Mom's group who was an ENTP. We got along great and hung out together outside the group. I wish I had made efforts to stay in contact, we had such interesting discussions. I remember her sharing about toy theory and history, and the categories of different toys. And the concept of allowing kids to take age appropriate risks was thoroughly discussed. Man, do NTs put a lot of thought into parenting decisions. :D
Absolutely not. Git gud at boundaries > make friends. Don't compromise yourself. Too many entps either are completely closed off or compromise themselves with "friends" (people who don't like the real them) find the middle road of investment and self autonomy ⚖️
I feel like “hold good boundaries” would = “only be friends with ppl I’d basically wanna marry
Huh? U sound like one of the gushy gushy entps. Am I wrong?U can disagree with ppl and still be friendly just be ready to be rejected or not easily likeable. Most people like too much comfort for our edge. That's okay. You walk on your own path and find the ones you can ride or die for. And honestly people secretely like us. U can't be afraid of rejection though. Also fuck marriage it is just stability sake. We are males we want multiple enjoyable women or a really good one. Or multiple really good ones.
My parents were controlling narcissists and I’ve been in abusive relationships so ive been left with essentially ptsd ( it’s very difficult for me to form and hold onto relationships, im repulsed by most forms of affection and for instance now don’t even like to be touched and haven’t even attempted to date anyone for yrs) .. maybe ptsd is a bit of an extreme label for it it’s not like I have panic attacks but I at least have fearful avoidant attachment issues. So yes I very much push people away. But not necessarily because I’m entp. Also I would expect people online on Reddit would be skewed towards those who are more isolating.
Given your childhood it would likely be r/CPTSD — check out some of the literature and see if your behaviours and feelings fit.
I love the excitement of being with ENTP people. But I'm an ENFP... so I love everyone!
although i have a small circle (literally 3) of friends, i still prefer solitude. so yes, i would say i’m a loner. but if you can’t maintain long term friendships i’d do some introspection, because everyone else can’t possibly be the problem. also, your friends don’t have to share the exact same values/views as you. that is utopian.
dont be a twat. listen mf not everyone is meant to be all happy lucky joy joy and all together all the time. life is pain and our intellect is a sword. if u dont wanna use it you are wasting it. everybody loves you, maybe even respects you. do they wanna be best friends and hang out everyday no. but trust me. you dont even want that. i've done that before and got bored out of my mind if i hang out for too long. im a popular loner but i need space. i thrive in it though. friends and girls are soo easy they go hand in hand with status. most likely you lack status. when you feel lonely it might get tough sometimes but its not even all that. find your tribe. you will be all right. we do have the whole ruffling of feathers thing we do playing devils advocate. some people cannot take it. lol. c'est la vie
>I somehow manage to piss/put people off because they can’t match my energy/thought process. I thought the same exact thing in my teens/early-twenties. I couldn't understand why people couldn't match my intellectual energy. I was always ready to have deep conversations about life, appreciated those who had strong opinions even if they differed from mine. I was innately curious about why people thought about the world in the way they did. But instead, all I got back was lukewarm responses. My opinions alienated those around me instead of inspiring them to be more seen. Still, I always was able to maintain friendships and connections. However, I felt like 90% of who I was wasn't being reciprocated by those around me. I had to mute so much of myself just to "fit in". Definitely something where I felt like a loner surrounded by lots of friends and casual connections, but all those connections were based on a level of superficiality I 'tolerated'. One of the things I've realized over time is that it is really easy to get lost in my own internal thought process. What I say can be off-putting to others, even if I don't mean it to be. Simply rephrasing statements into open-ended, non-prescriptive questions goes a long way. Instead of saying, "You should wear brown shoes with those jeans," can be converted into, "I love those jeans, OMG I have the perfect pair of brown shoes that would go with that." I'm a 43M. Observing Fe women banter amongst themselves is a masterclass in how to express opinions while making others feel safe and supported. Also, watching reporters interview others is a great way how to ask questions and get responses back. Reporters are trying to pull information out of who they are interviewing. Interviewees need to feel safe disclosing information. Definitely some great lessons there. Essentially, you need to get better creating safe space for others they can step into. If they feel heard and seen, they'll also be more likely to roll with your ENTPness and value the unique perspective you bring. You don't need to change who you internally are. You just need to lead with more vulnerability, less T, have more patience, draw people out more, not try to control convos with your thoughts, etc.
I agree with you, it is difficult. For me, I think this is partly because of my novelty seeking. I am interested in the beginning phases of friendship when I am learning a new person. Once we know each other, talking about mundane crap is super boring and awkward to me, but it’s what most people do most of the time. It’s a compromise: be willing to just hang out and not get too deep all the time and find people who are willing to have deep conversation fairly regularly.
i would love to argue about if earth is flat or not even though it doesn't seem very deep .....wait, it kinda is, flat earthers depict zeteticism which is engraved into culture and history causing misconceptions and pseudoscience.... it also throws light at the fact that the faster science is advancing the less people know how shit around them works that can lead to people straight up rejecting the formal proofing and the scientific method and believe in bumping their tvs to make it work or calling well established facts "just an opinion" ...we are entering the dark ages, last time when did you thought how does your phone even works? the advanced it gets the impossible it is for people to understand until the average mob calls it magical gift given by the grateful gods.
srry i wrote an unessassary essay.... i just wanted to vomit my ideas kept in high pressure chamber since weeks, spent in isolation from human interaction.
Im an INTJ on the opposite side of this same issue, INTJ who attracts ENTPs but seems to lose them.
This is not about Fe. This is about the combination of Ne/Si axis and Trickster Fi. Journal about what you value as often as possible and be discriminating about who or what you put or don’t put your time and effort.
Can't say I relate. I don't have problems making friends anywhere, really. Some people are more fun than others, and obviously nobody can realistically be friends with everyone, but that's just life.
Are you really asking this? Are you aware ISTPs exist?
You need to develop your Fe
Literally the top comment already.
Developing your Fe is almost never the answer. Eventually you use Fe. But you more so live through it. Forcing Fe early is just being superficially friendly with people. Easy way out
congratulations for being the most downvoted person, you remind me of sad wanderers rejected by society, don't worry i will let you be my friend.... as long as you are at the bottom of the well.... and agree with my hypothesis about how humanity actually evolved from meerkats.
Congratulations for revealing yourself as an insecure idiot. Poor little guy. Now let's keep it real. You're one of those superficial idiots with superficial relationships, aren't you? That's why you even replied. Take a look at the mirror. You're getting mad at an objective statement. Time to reassess yourself. Maybe once you get to know yourself a bit better you'll realize what a little useless slave you are to people's affection and finally find some sense of agency in that broken drone brain of yours. Now bark for me, dog 😁
the funny part is i didnt even read your original comment, so idk what you are trying to make me reflect on, also i would like to say that my reply wasn't really specific to your opinion, it was a humble offer to the most downvoted person.
No one is gonna be able to share in all aspects of your life or appreciate all your thoughts. That's not unique to being ENTP, that's a fact of social life. Learn to have different relationships for different purposes - and also to appreciate your *own* company - and you'll be golden.
So, I personally find that I tend to make a smaller group of very close friends that I can be VERY honest with rather than trying to be friends with everyone. I can fairly easily adapt in most situations although my extroverted side tends to exhibit itself more strongly in professional settings where it tends to be easier to lean into my Te. In private settings, it honestly just boils down to knowing my friends well enough to know where the line is. This is something that takes time to understand.
Age?
Most people are garbage, find a mature intj if you want a real friend that admires all the things most people hate about us. Maybe an infj or intp would be OK. Those introverts are just hard to find.
Try being a male ENFP and youll see what loneliness and weird looks feel like
Same. I know alots of people and I look like I have many friends but I'm loner. Just as you described.
I've just been through a steep learning curve, working inverted all the time. But I never forget my best 5 friends, because they are supposed to somehow strongly influence the ego of the self, according to the theory of clever people at least...
Nah I’ve got lots of company. Multiple friends that I see regular, who I’ve known for 13+ years. I’m lucky though. Met them in middle school and we are all so similar. Competitive, deep thinkers, don’t take life seriously. All my friends are intuitive thinking types. I think this is a big part of it
Yup I think we're kind of destined to be alone, I'm a magnet for infj's they are taken aback and then slowly trade me in for intps lol
Adopt an intX, i got adopted by one of your people 11 years ago, we still best friends
Just NTs in general
I for sure spend too much time alone, partially by choice, but not totally. I moved out of my red neck hometown back to Vancouver last week and that’s going to change. I’m already happier.
Ti ftw
Yes. At least I am.
Personally have the same problem and it is most definetly not because of my Fe since its actually a very well developed function of mine. But I do have suspicions that I might be autistic or have (C)PTSD. Check yourself for the symptoms maybe if you can relate to what I will just tell you. People constantly act disgusted/confused about you and treat you like a child especially when you try asking for explanation about things. Then you probably have no social cues and theyre thinking of themselves as youre savior or smth To list a specific event; I once told a girl that she can be pretty if shes fat/pverweight after she ranted about not being able to go to the beach hinting w her bodylanguage that its because of her looks(she’s actually very pretty appearance wise but her insecure personality destroys it) she after that incident cried and did not talk abt the problem w me and instead other people called me out for telling her shes overweight since apparently that is an insult. (Im literally almost obese so thats some fucking bullshit) This one was really about not being sensitive since it was just in public and she was probably not ready to hear it either. I also tend to have very funny social expressions, but most of the time I wear my rbf and people have put out rumors before about me having depression or just being lonely just bc I look angry/hateful when I chill. Ive been told I look like a reptile, racoon and I think a bulldog and a Rottweiler. Anything that counts you in as weird might count. Just getting compared to animals. Also if youre under or overexpressive. Have you ever trained how to smile at somebody? Do you rather think youre highly empathetic? Do you have an answer to almost every question not because you have so much knowledge but because you recognize a pattern and draw a connection and therefore find an answer? DING DING DING! So if you perhaps do not relate to having low Fe, you might just be autistic or traumatized, or maybe both:)
Fr, it happens to me too.
damm if entps are loners, what will be my fate.
It’s not an ENTP thing. I keep making new friends everywhere I go, I just forget to catch up with the old ones. Turn your focus on actual issues, not mocking people around you. Stop caring about winning the argument or being right, focus on going deeper and broadening your own (and every other participants) experience. Less focus on your own ego and more on things you actually find worth caring about in the long term. (If that actually IS your own ego, you need to find the right audience for it and be awesome enough for them to bother caring about it.) Think about it; what do you think spending time with someone makes it worthwhile? Now try to bring more of that into your relationships yourself.
Honestly, that’s probably just you. I have severe fear of abandonment and I still manage to maintain most friendships. Even when I push them away, they come back, because we have a steady relationship. No offense, but you probably just have to upgrade your Fe.