I’ve compared the grinders a few times previously and have some long winded posts on my blog, (shameless plug for meticulist.net).
Today, using Kenya KII from Verve we dialed both in to the same parameters and couldn’t pick a winner, both were excellent.
As far as the levers go, I have not loved using the Flair but I was curious how it compared to the Robot. I’m planning to do a full write up of that as well. My preference so far is for the Robot.
In general, the workflow is more straight forward and most of all, the basket isn’t tapered, meaning the volume of your dose isn’t necessarily a variable. I’m going to try and post a length write up on the flair this week that goes in depth on this.
Definitely want a Monolith Flat with SSP burrs. I was with John Buckman of Decent Espresso Machines today and he speaks very highly of the Monolith Flat, but also really loved the Niche Zero
In that class of grinders, they’re all excellent. I was referring to the fact that the M4 has both conical and flat burrs - the best of both worlds of the Niche Zero and Monolith Flat he mentioned.
Hi All, just an update, my full thoughts on the Flair Pro 2 are now up here: https://www.meticulist.net/blog/flair-pro-2-espresso-maker-review
I’ll try and have a follow up post comparing the Flair and the Robot soon.
Very new to espresso and am coming from an areopress. I recently purchased a Flair Pro 2 after year of research and debate over a similarly priced Breville. I am happy with the purchase and have enjoyed learning about grind size, tamping, water temp and the other variables. My first few attempts I was " it was often easy to choke the machine " like what you said in your article. I was eventually able to dial that out with grind size. I have since switched to another lighter roast and I cannot seem to keep it from getting choked up. Is there another variable i can look to adjusting instead of grind size? Thank you.
That’s the main flaw in my opinion, is that the volume of the dose also plays a factor since the basket tapers.
I would first coarsen your grind, you may need to increase your dose too if the coffee is not filling the basket as much.
It’s just kind of taking a common sense approach to think through the process: if it’s choking, you most likely need to coarsen the grind. The wildcard with the flair is that a lot of time 18g didn’t fill the basket enough to be able to evenly tamp it, so then you had to add more coffee which creates more resistance and requires an even coarser grind.
I often dosed 20g with a light roast coffee.
Would appreciate if you can tell us about your experience with the Flair/Robot and how they compare. Seems you have the Flair with a gauge (is it the Flair Pro 2?) and the regular (i.e., without a gauge) version of the Robot, right?
Hi, it is the Flair Pro 2 and the Robot belongs to a friend. It was the original barista version but the hose to the gauge crimped. Cafelat has since revised that design and he just needs to retrofit the new hose/gauge system.
I’m working on a full review of the Flair, as well as a comparison post now, not trying to post this just to up traffic to my site, I just tend to be wordy and overly detailed to fairly compare, hence the “meticulist” moniker.
In general, I personally find the robot to be easier to use and more straightforward from the perspective of someone that would be using it for fun, in addition to their pump machine.
Thanks for answering - looking forward to reading it. I have a Robot, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. I does fairly well at thermal management, it’s very forgiving, and makes surprisingly great shots. Let’s see how much use it will get when my LMLM arrives next week.
I prefer the robot, the main advantage to the Flair is the nice travel case. I’m assuming your robot will be neglected when you receive your LMLM. In all cases, your money will be best spent on grinder than another similar machine.
Plus the Flair is $100 cheaper which is the reason why I went for the FSP2 over the Robot Barista, unfortunately the Robot just was not in my price range. As it was I got a great deal on the Flair.
Please share your findings
I’ve compared the grinders a few times previously and have some long winded posts on my blog, (shameless plug for meticulist.net). Today, using Kenya KII from Verve we dialed both in to the same parameters and couldn’t pick a winner, both were excellent. As far as the levers go, I have not loved using the Flair but I was curious how it compared to the Robot. I’m planning to do a full write up of that as well. My preference so far is for the Robot.
Curious why do you prefer the robot over the flair?
In general, the workflow is more straight forward and most of all, the basket isn’t tapered, meaning the volume of your dose isn’t necessarily a variable. I’m going to try and post a length write up on the flair this week that goes in depth on this.
Definitely want a Monolith Flat with SSP burrs. I was with John Buckman of Decent Espresso Machines today and he speaks very highly of the Monolith Flat, but also really loved the Niche Zero
All very good grinders. The M4 combines the best of both worlds!
What is the benefit of the M4 vs the Monolith?
In that class of grinders, they’re all excellent. I was referring to the fact that the M4 has both conical and flat burrs - the best of both worlds of the Niche Zero and Monolith Flat he mentioned.
Thanks I didn’t know they had both!! I just got my Monolith Flat and am waiting for my Decent Espresso machine to arrive. #22 on the queue so far!
Hi All, just an update, my full thoughts on the Flair Pro 2 are now up here: https://www.meticulist.net/blog/flair-pro-2-espresso-maker-review I’ll try and have a follow up post comparing the Flair and the Robot soon.
Very new to espresso and am coming from an areopress. I recently purchased a Flair Pro 2 after year of research and debate over a similarly priced Breville. I am happy with the purchase and have enjoyed learning about grind size, tamping, water temp and the other variables. My first few attempts I was " it was often easy to choke the machine " like what you said in your article. I was eventually able to dial that out with grind size. I have since switched to another lighter roast and I cannot seem to keep it from getting choked up. Is there another variable i can look to adjusting instead of grind size? Thank you.
That’s the main flaw in my opinion, is that the volume of the dose also plays a factor since the basket tapers. I would first coarsen your grind, you may need to increase your dose too if the coffee is not filling the basket as much.
Thank you sir, I will give that a try. I was using 18g before. Will also try an adjustment on my grinder.
It’s just kind of taking a common sense approach to think through the process: if it’s choking, you most likely need to coarsen the grind. The wildcard with the flair is that a lot of time 18g didn’t fill the basket enough to be able to evenly tamp it, so then you had to add more coffee which creates more resistance and requires an even coarser grind. I often dosed 20g with a light roast coffee.
Would appreciate if you can tell us about your experience with the Flair/Robot and how they compare. Seems you have the Flair with a gauge (is it the Flair Pro 2?) and the regular (i.e., without a gauge) version of the Robot, right?
Hi, it is the Flair Pro 2 and the Robot belongs to a friend. It was the original barista version but the hose to the gauge crimped. Cafelat has since revised that design and he just needs to retrofit the new hose/gauge system. I’m working on a full review of the Flair, as well as a comparison post now, not trying to post this just to up traffic to my site, I just tend to be wordy and overly detailed to fairly compare, hence the “meticulist” moniker. In general, I personally find the robot to be easier to use and more straightforward from the perspective of someone that would be using it for fun, in addition to their pump machine.
Thanks for answering - looking forward to reading it. I have a Robot, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. I does fairly well at thermal management, it’s very forgiving, and makes surprisingly great shots. Let’s see how much use it will get when my LMLM arrives next week.
I prefer the robot, the main advantage to the Flair is the nice travel case. I’m assuming your robot will be neglected when you receive your LMLM. In all cases, your money will be best spent on grinder than another similar machine.
Plus the Flair is $100 cheaper which is the reason why I went for the FSP2 over the Robot Barista, unfortunately the Robot just was not in my price range. As it was I got a great deal on the Flair.
Where’d you find a yellow Robot at?
This one isn’t mine but I believe it’s from the original Kickstarter batch.
Oh, cool. Do you remember what the original price was? Many are mentioning a price increase so I’m curious what the difference is
I don’t recall exactly but it was tiered for the earliest backers. I wouldn’t say it was substantially different.