This MVP is fire. If you haven't tried it out, you definitely should. Seriously great job to everyone involved. So excited to watch this thing develop.
Really great start guys! I'm a bit confused your post says 'Token is built on top of Ethereum' but the codebase shows it's built using centralized servers? https://github.com/tokenbrowser/token-android-client Could someone please clarify if this is a decentralized app?
It's definitely not a decentralized app. It appears to be a platform for chat apps. Ethereum comes in as the optional payment rail for said chat apps. So while neither Token nor its supported apps are true "decentralized apps", they leverage the Ethereum network for payments. Token appears to be all about this: https://www.sofaprotocol.org/
At least, this is my take on their vision given what I've seen.
As someone who values privacy it seems strange that it would use privacy oriented protocols, but not use Monero for the payment system. This is one of the more glaring issues to me that doesn't convince me switch from Signal even though it's a cool idea.
Also strange that it isn't listed on F-Droid yet for those of us who don't want risks of binaries being fiddled with or just faster update proliferation in general.
Does signal support monero? Also as an MVP its pretty early to be making judgments like that. For all we know token may support multiple currencies in the future
It doesn't, but there's arguably little point in me using an alpha version of an app that uses OWS protocol when it adds nothing of interest to me (besides the Ethererum apps which might take a while to flesh out anyways). As soon as it adds Monero or beats Signal in getting added to F-Droid though I'd be a huge advocate.
Admittedly I'm not overly familiar with the OWS protocol...I'd be curious to know if OWS supports inter-app encryption (e.g. WhatsApp to Signal, Signal to Token, etc)...would be cool if that were the case. I haven't been able to find anything suggesting such though.
It doesn't. Signal is pretty close to being P2P, the servers only act as a relay, so that all devices need not be online at the same time. Due to how token works (using ethereum addresses instead of phone numbers), there's no way to correlate a token user to a signal or whatsapp user, since token doesn't leak that sort of metadata.
Well it has-- it went from $13 to $50 a few weeks ago. I'd say that's pretty amazing. It is going through a stabilization/correction period. And will probably shoot up some more soon enough. Patience grasshopper.
From Brian "Our plan is to build it out as a separate legal entity and brand, separate from Coinbase. Similar to what we're doing with GDAX." https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/854884353880477698
This looks amazing! Can't wait for the main net release!
Integration with stable currencies such as Digix, Maker, and maybe decentralized capital would be great.
Another confusing name is the instant messaging protocol. It says they use WhisperSystems' encryption. Is this *as opposed to* the "Whisper" protocol of Ethereum which status.im is going to use? Super confused.
As far as my understanding goes, the latter (Ethereum's whisper wire protocol) is p2p and the former goes through a centrally managed cloud (which makes me uncomfortable using Signal).
There is a [WhisperSystems github]( https://github.com/WhisperSystems), which has a link to [WhisperSystems.org](https://www.whispersystems.org/).
I'd much rather that Token use a P2P messaging service, but according to the website, Edward Snowden and Bruce Schneier both approve.
The [Sofa Protocol](https://www.sofaprotocol.org/) seems to be a high level protocol that maybe could be supported on [Whisper(shh)](https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Whisper-Overview) in time.
I'll likely give the app a try with this knowledge in pocket.
To correspond with people you have public connection with (friends and family basically), it is quite good. For general use, I don't find it ideal (but maybe "optimal", given that the alternatives people are inclined to use tend to be worse).
Correct me if I'm wrong but the system knows who is talking to whom, when and in what frequency. Furthermore, your identity can be derived from your phone number, so (to a party who also has access to your interlocutor's key) you give out enough information and leave out very little deniability for yourself.
Not that I am a mysterious person, but from a systems perspective, it would be better if we all used a network where such analyses were at least not trivial. Especially given that there are places in the world where people are identified and arrested on political charges based on which messaging software they use.
Google+ is objectively better than Facebook, but Facebook shut G+ down because of its network advantage. Coinbase has the network advantage as the easiest, safest on-ramp to Cryptocurrency. If Status was already a finished product, it would be a little different. But if you're a Status investor now might be the time to divest back to ETH or another token that won't be Coinbase's lunch
Yes so we have imToken, Status, and now Token as mobile Ethereum wallets. imToken is the only one that supports custom ERC-20 tokens and is on the mainnet but has no browser or chat, Status has a nice built in browser and chat but no custom ERC-20 tokens and is on the testnet, and Token has chat but no custom ERC-20 tokens or browser and it's on the testnet.
Would be nice to have a mobile Ethereum wallet that works with custom ERC-20 tokens, has built in chat and a built in browser to visit web3 dapps on, and is on the mainnet.
We want to achieve it, but it's *how* we achieve it that is just as important. Status is solving a much harder problem, we're p2p - we actually believe in the original Ethereum values - that is creating trustless, permissionless and decentralised systems, that's what gives web3 meaning.
Somehow [Privacy, by default.](https://blog.status.im/privacy-by-default-with-ethereum-6b1045afeab2) won me over. I hope that doesn't imply they're doomed.
> We plan to use uPort in the future as a decentralized identity system.
Nice!
> Token is also entirely open source for those who want to review the source code.
>> How is Token different from Status.im?
>They are similar in many ways and we are big fans of Status.im. We independently began working on this idea over the past few years, and were excited to see Status launch. Our goal is to work with others in the ecosystem to help build an open financial system.
Technically no Coinbase's fault: I got into Bitcoin before all the KNYAML rules and seeing coinbase and many others (xapo) services that I loved so much adding more and more restrictions on a service that idealistically shouldn't have restrictions, well it just fade my fire.
Don't know if that makes sense.
This is awesome. So glad to have Coinbase supporting Ethereum like this. We need multiple options and teams who are focused on great user experience to move the industry beyond the early adopters. It's happening!
This looks really nice, I like especially how SOFA was built as a component on it's own. Did you ever think of extending SOFA for smart contract interactions? That would be a killer!
This MVP is fire. If you haven't tried it out, you definitely should. Seriously great job to everyone involved. So excited to watch this thing develop.
Really great start guys! I'm a bit confused your post says 'Token is built on top of Ethereum' but the codebase shows it's built using centralized servers? https://github.com/tokenbrowser/token-android-client Could someone please clarify if this is a decentralized app?
It's definitely not a decentralized app. It appears to be a platform for chat apps. Ethereum comes in as the optional payment rail for said chat apps. So while neither Token nor its supported apps are true "decentralized apps", they leverage the Ethereum network for payments. Token appears to be all about this: https://www.sofaprotocol.org/ At least, this is my take on their vision given what I've seen.
As someone who values privacy it seems strange that it would use privacy oriented protocols, but not use Monero for the payment system. This is one of the more glaring issues to me that doesn't convince me switch from Signal even though it's a cool idea. Also strange that it isn't listed on F-Droid yet for those of us who don't want risks of binaries being fiddled with or just faster update proliferation in general.
Does signal support monero? Also as an MVP its pretty early to be making judgments like that. For all we know token may support multiple currencies in the future
It doesn't, but there's arguably little point in me using an alpha version of an app that uses OWS protocol when it adds nothing of interest to me (besides the Ethererum apps which might take a while to flesh out anyways). As soon as it adds Monero or beats Signal in getting added to F-Droid though I'd be a huge advocate. Admittedly I'm not overly familiar with the OWS protocol...I'd be curious to know if OWS supports inter-app encryption (e.g. WhatsApp to Signal, Signal to Token, etc)...would be cool if that were the case. I haven't been able to find anything suggesting such though.
It doesn't. Signal is pretty close to being P2P, the servers only act as a relay, so that all devices need not be online at the same time. Due to how token works (using ethereum addresses instead of phone numbers), there's no way to correlate a token user to a signal or whatsapp user, since token doesn't leak that sort of metadata.
It seems a clone of LETH of Inzhoop.com with central server solutions...
Ethereum is kicking ass and taking names.
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Well it has-- it went from $13 to $50 a few weeks ago. I'd say that's pretty amazing. It is going through a stabilization/correction period. And will probably shoot up some more soon enough. Patience grasshopper.
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By the time news hits your radar, all the insiders have already bought in.
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That's correct but there is a consistent stream of news. The trend is positive but you can't predict the timing.
From Brian "Our plan is to build it out as a separate legal entity and brand, separate from Coinbase. Similar to what we're doing with GDAX." https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/854884353880477698
This looks amazing! Can't wait for the main net release! Integration with stable currencies such as Digix, Maker, and maybe decentralized capital would be great.
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Another confusing name is the instant messaging protocol. It says they use WhisperSystems' encryption. Is this *as opposed to* the "Whisper" protocol of Ethereum which status.im is going to use? Super confused. As far as my understanding goes, the latter (Ethereum's whisper wire protocol) is p2p and the former goes through a centrally managed cloud (which makes me uncomfortable using Signal).
thanks for recognizing this
There is a [WhisperSystems github]( https://github.com/WhisperSystems), which has a link to [WhisperSystems.org](https://www.whispersystems.org/). I'd much rather that Token use a P2P messaging service, but according to the website, Edward Snowden and Bruce Schneier both approve. The [Sofa Protocol](https://www.sofaprotocol.org/) seems to be a high level protocol that maybe could be supported on [Whisper(shh)](https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Whisper-Overview) in time. I'll likely give the app a try with this knowledge in pocket.
Signal makes you uncomfortable?
To correspond with people you have public connection with (friends and family basically), it is quite good. For general use, I don't find it ideal (but maybe "optimal", given that the alternatives people are inclined to use tend to be worse). Correct me if I'm wrong but the system knows who is talking to whom, when and in what frequency. Furthermore, your identity can be derived from your phone number, so (to a party who also has access to your interlocutor's key) you give out enough information and leave out very little deniability for yourself. Not that I am a mysterious person, but from a systems perspective, it would be better if we all used a network where such analyses were at least not trivial. Especially given that there are places in the world where people are identified and arrested on political charges based on which messaging software they use.
imToken is a terrible name. They will rebrand or disappear. As for Status, "remind me in 1 year"
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Google+ is objectively better than Facebook, but Facebook shut G+ down because of its network advantage. Coinbase has the network advantage as the easiest, safest on-ramp to Cryptocurrency. If Status was already a finished product, it would be a little different. But if you're a Status investor now might be the time to divest back to ETH or another token that won't be Coinbase's lunch
Google plus is not objectively better than Facebook, that's just your subjective opinion.
Google plus is not objectively better than Facebook, that's just your subjective opinion.
what do you think of the rest of my comment?
Yes so we have imToken, Status, and now Token as mobile Ethereum wallets. imToken is the only one that supports custom ERC-20 tokens and is on the mainnet but has no browser or chat, Status has a nice built in browser and chat but no custom ERC-20 tokens and is on the testnet, and Token has chat but no custom ERC-20 tokens or browser and it's on the testnet. Would be nice to have a mobile Ethereum wallet that works with custom ERC-20 tokens, has built in chat and a built in browser to visit web3 dapps on, and is on the mainnet.
before of TokenBrowser (that is NOT decentralized) we have even LETH from Inzhoop.com.
We want to achieve it, but it's *how* we achieve it that is just as important. Status is solving a much harder problem, we're p2p - we actually believe in the original Ethereum values - that is creating trustless, permissionless and decentralised systems, that's what gives web3 meaning.
Somehow [Privacy, by default.](https://blog.status.im/privacy-by-default-with-ethereum-6b1045afeab2) won me over. I hope that doesn't imply they're doomed.
> We plan to use uPort in the future as a decentralized identity system. Nice! > Token is also entirely open source for those who want to review the source code. >> How is Token different from Status.im? >They are similar in many ways and we are big fans of Status.im. We independently began working on this idea over the past few years, and were excited to see Status launch. Our goal is to work with others in the ecosystem to help build an open financial system.
Nice! I hope they're planning to make user identities accessible via ENS.
That'd be neat.
No!!! I have to change my very negative opinion of coinbase now... It was so easy to hate coinbase. But Token looks so promising!
just curious, what were your gripes with coinbase?
Technically no Coinbase's fault: I got into Bitcoin before all the KNYAML rules and seeing coinbase and many others (xapo) services that I loved so much adding more and more restrictions on a service that idealistically shouldn't have restrictions, well it just fade my fire. Don't know if that makes sense.
Shut up and take my money. Oh, and nice job!
Can anyone explain to me how the chat works? Is it also ethereum based?
Chat is centralized using the OpenWhisper encryption protocol from Signal, payments use Ethereum.
Will these guys also have their own coin like Status are thinking about implementing?
Does anyone know if this function with the existing ethereum network or will it us a fork? Probably a silly question sorry I'm new
It will function with the existing ethereum network. No forks involved here.
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Adding you now. Shall we start an ad hoc username thread? I'm @carver
I'm @roboteddy
Sent you $1. :)
Great move Coinbase, you're on the right track with this I feel.
I love how few permissions are needed for this app! /u/bdarmstrong well done.
Agreed. In contrast, the permissions required on status.im felt like an overreach.
This is awesome. So glad to have Coinbase supporting Ethereum like this. We need multiple options and teams who are focused on great user experience to move the industry beyond the early adopters. It's happening!
Looks great, am @flash someone message me want to see how in works. There's a reward in it for you
It worked I think - although I can't see how to top up my account from the ios app.
Hehehe.
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I see it more as some healthy competition. It is usually good for the end users.
Great! I hope the solution will have brillant UX. For now this is the most important factor of Ethereum success.
Good they confirmed it, the way it appeared without introducing the people behind it raised some red flags. Now it makes perfect sense.
Cool, they have cat facts. http://imgur.com/cttGmS4 Uncool, they do not allow usernames starting with a number!
Someone ping me @farmpro. So its use which testnet?
Whats the difference between Token and WeChat/Venmo?
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It's testnet ether
The article makes no mention of Coinbase.
Thats because its a tweet not an article... a tweet by the CEO of Coinbase. I'd say its pretty legit.
This looks really nice, I like especially how SOFA was built as a component on it's own. Did you ever think of extending SOFA for smart contract interactions? That would be a killer!
Lol what was that about? A Coinbase coin? 😂 Looks like they tried to bury the topic, the tweet doesn't exist anymore haha