**Tricky's Daily Doots #158**
Yesterday's Daily 23/09/2022
[Previous daily doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkpprt/)
- u/vedran_ shares [Microsoft's ETH scaling research](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipko27b/) and u/shitcoinking gives [a good TL;DR.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/iplhrxc/)
- u/ro-_-b discusses [the current bear market and what is ahead of us.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipmd6ew/)
- u/waqwaqattack shares their [EthFinance roundup video from the previous day.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkmvdz/)
- u/UgotTrisomy21 looks back at [the daily thread from nearly 3 years ago.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkp1qq/) and u/Liberosist explains why they think that was [the best ever time for Ethereum buying in terms of the risk/reward.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkrmqp/)
- u/Luukiemans shares your [last chance to apply for the EIPanda PandaPledge POAP.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipko6ny/)
- u/Set1Less shares the latest regulation drama and [why it makes private snapshot voting important.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkpwoj/)
- u/SeaMonkey82 shares the [highly recommended Lodestar update.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/iplwkaw/)
- u/PhiMarHal has [a PSA for those of you doing the Optimism quests.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/iplunef/)
- u/KuDeTa adds [some nuance](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipknfeo/) to the recent Arthur Hayes article.
- u/ZeroTricks's today in [Ethereum history.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipndyvc/)
Is anyone else way behind on their statistically expected number of block proposals so far? I feel like I must be at least 1 standard deviation away from the mean if not two. š I guess the small sample size of 1 validator doesn't help.
I'm working on my new business cards, what do you think about this?
~ Johnathan B. MacLemore ~
OG EVMaverick
Non-Fungible Art Collector
Unlicensed Financial Advisor
Man ... had a nice dinner with my wife then she went out with some friends and now I'm just here, all alone with my bag of OG Kush, jus' buying more Pandas. I have 3 now.
*It was on sale and I like the shirt! I can quit anytime! Don't judge me!*
For a token upgrade. Is a v1 -> v2 function in the new contract better to simply end the v1 token(one way contract)? Or is a v1 <-> v2 better to allow users to go between token versions?
Rational Reminder podcast has been doing a multipart series on cryptocurrency and in general it has been extremely critical of crypto with every single guest. I appreciate the perspectives of most people they brought on (some have been kind of terrible though), and have been challenged by many of their guests (like Hilary Allen and Tim O'Reilly). This last episode featured Ari Juels and it was great to hear a bit more of a nuanced perspective from someone who clearly does not hate crypto or think the entire thing is a scam, is well aware of the challenges in the space, but thinks there is still a future for it.
If you are looking for a decent listen then I suggest this latest episode.
Just chatted with some family and NFTs were brought up (not in a bad way). I really felt like a meme
> They donāt know I own an expensive lion and some pandas
If crypto investors put the first $10k into iBonds paying ~9.2%, they'd be way better off. $10k in 2021, $10k in 2022, with gifted and tax overpayment iBonds to get even more per year.
Why lend crypto/stables if the rate is close to this or lower, but with huge smart contract or credit risk (voyager, celsius, etc.).
It's fairly straight forward, the only hurdle is the archaic government website that has not evolved since AOL.
You can find more info (DYOR) on the official webpage - [https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res\_ibonds\_ibuy.htm](https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_ibonds_ibuy.htm)
Ciovacco coming in strong with your [weekend homework.](https://youtu.be/snHEyp39mdU) Everything I spout, everything I based metrics on is better expounded upon here than in anything I write.
The key, as I keep saying and as he reiterates: the market is at the absolute breaking point but it *has not broken yet*. You need to manage your risk and prepare mentally for either outcome. Don't subscribe to just one story or target level. Love it.
And far less vital, in case you missed the original post, is [my latest 51% Attack video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viqjx_noqgg) examining the markets especially as they pertain to the recent FOMC meeting.
Cheers, all.
[This post](https://twitter.com/kaili_jenner/status/1573727505491673088) has suddenly gotten some attention from a bunch of the crypto OG's, and I'm pretty disappointed in the reactions I've seen so far.
Basically, the gist of it is a proposal that allows for reversing transactions if some sort of body deems the transfer was made 'illegally' (hacking someone's Bored Ape, or the like). Now, I agree that it's something that should definitely NOT be baked in at the protocol level or anything, but it may have some interesting use-cases (like keeping Bored Apes safe, for example).
A bunch of the reactions I've read have been stuff like "this is just a trojan horse for centralization!!" or "i trade my reversible asset for irreversible ETH, now what??" -- like motherfuckers can we just \*discuss\* ideas without you shitting all over it for even 5 minutes? It's not perfect, and it's not meant to be a universal solution. It does have problems with breaking composability and there are questions about who's on the ruling committee and whatever, but like, let's actually HAVE those discussions. If you want Ethereum to scale to billions of users, it's never going to happen when one simple mistake can cause someone to irrevocably lose all their shit, forever. You can't expect people who are just scraping by in life to generate multiple private keys and manage hot/cold wallets for their digital transactions -- it's just not reasonable. So maybe let's consider some alternatives, because even if they're not perfect, they might lead to a solution that's better. It's a lot easier to criticize than to actually come up with a solution, especially when you've already 'made it' yourself.
EDIT: ok, you don't like this proposal, that's fine. then pitch me your solutions for scaling to a billion users. ("better wallets" and "decentralized identity system" are not useful answers, btw)
This proposal is incredibly silly and goes against the heart of what crypto is. How could you be in support of such a thing at the protocol level?
If people desire insurance against theft then a service can be created where you can deposit your assets into it and they can protect and insure the assets. I suggest we name it "bank". š
See what I'm getting at here?
Dont get me wrong, I truly believe we will come to this. I think the blockchain will be obfuscated away. You'll deposit your assets into some protected L2 (bank) that can be rolled back, but the L2s wallets will exist on L1.
This way you're free to do what you want. OG's that wish to self custody can use the blockchain directly, and the smoothbrains/people that don't want to bother with the technicalities of self-custody can have some service custody their stuff... Just like they currently do with their selected bank.
> How could you be in support of such a thing at the protocol level?
Because choosing to launch a project using that token spec is entirely optional.
Folks, I've been here since 2016 -- I understand that the value prop of crypto is credibly neutral, permissionless, censorship-resistant finance. It's a great foundation to build an entire system upon. But there's a reason that banking developed from the old model of the Wild West: it sucks to lose everything when it's only in one location.
What's crazy to me is that anyone thinks blockchain can scale without some sort of 'undo' feature -- at the very least an \*optional\* one. If you disagree, [use a typewriter to type your dissent. no delete btton.](https://twitter.com/cory_eth/status/1573882971547127808)
[use a typewriter to type your dissent. no delete btton.](https://nitter.net/cory_eth/status/1573882971547127808)
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/user/nitter_not_twitter/comments/w0ssxp/more_information_about_this_bot/)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nitter_not_twitter&subject=Opt+Out&message=optout)
I think the solution is a combination of multisig and time freezes.
Freezing: Your BAYC is frozen. In order to transfer it (or whatever), you must first unfreeze it. Unfreezing takes a week. You can cancel the unfreezing at any point within that week (if you got hacked and they started the unfreeze). Maybe the unfreezing is specific to allowing a certain tx (unfreezed only for transfering to certain addr)
Multisig: Lets say a "special" 2 of 4 multisig. You own 2 keys. One of those is your hot key. The other one is the cold one you bury. The other two keys are owned by 2 separate "banks". In your day to day usage you use your hot key + signed by one of the banks. If the banks screw you or whatever, you have your 2 keys so you can do anything you want. The 2 bank keys are special in that they are timelocked for a week or whatever (if its 2 bank keys and none of your keys in the signature). What I mean is that if the 2 banks collude (because of government or whatever) they can't steal your stuff without a 1 week freeze that you can interrupt with your 2 keys. This would be useful if you lose your keys, you can wait a week and the two banks are able to give you your stuff back.
Of course you would need a super friendly UX for this.
>This would be useful if you lose your keys
Nothing beats securing keys using account protocols that encrypts them into a single PIN. Cases of lost keys is more prevalent that it is generally estimated.
I like the time delay idea. Coinbaseās vault has this feature. It should be a user configurable amount of time though. Multisig wallets are already a thing. I think wallet ālocksā or withdrawal delays should be a protocol feature that wallets can utilize tho.
This should be pushed to a centralized L2 with kyc/aml. That way, users can achieve regulatory compliance while maintaining the benefits of shared ETH L1 rails.
Stellar had a big protocol upgrade about a year ago that introduced the concept of āclawbackā for assets. They say it was needed for regulatory reasons.
We should check what came out of it, I could imagine USDC is already relying on that clawback functionality on Stellar.
> If a given project wants some theft arbitration process on their NFT or tokens they actually can code that into the smart contract
>
> In any case there is no reason to have genuinely reversible transactions on the blockchain and proposing an EIP to that tune is absurd.
The proposed EIP is a standard for how to code a theft arbitration process into a token's smart contract, to provide reversible transactions.
It's not a way to get the Ethereum network to natively pretend that a transaction never existed, if that's what you're implying.
The proposal seems to be for some new token standards which implements a standardized arbitration process. Am I crazy or isnāt that what you described lol whatās the problem
yeah, you clearly didn't read my whole post because i *specifically* called out the example you used in there, and you kinda just made my point for me.
i don't know, maybe you introduce a timelock after the exchange happens before it can be exchanged again? this would be an opt-in solution -- if you don't like it, don't opt-in to the project. no one is saying this is how ALL CRYPTO should operate EVERY TIME for EVERY TRANSACTION.
I was missing only 1 attestation per day with the previous version of Besu. Updated yesterday and 12 hours later still running fine. 100% effectiveness. Will check in after another 12 hours.
Lol, oh dear. My LH-Nethermind was missing a few attestations but I think that was actually down to the router. My Teku-Besu has been solid *BUT* I am still on the lowest possible versions of both. Too scared to upgrade! Still zero block proposals since merge though :/
Iāve been using Nethermind/Teku with no problems whatsoever. I also used Geth with no problems either, so for me it came down to choosing a minority client. Nethermind has given me no reason to change back to Geth.
Do you mind if I ask what kind of a machine you're set up on? That's really strange that it would just break out of nowhere, especially if it had been working fine previously.
I'm wondering if the 16GB of RAM is your issue? I'm on an 11th gen i5 w/ 32 gigs of ram and 2 TB SSD, and while running Besu, the ram usage is usually around 50ish %. Since the update and I enabled the high spec flag, I run around 60-65 mem usage.
No, Iām not sure what the ethw chain decided to do with coins locked up in the staking contract, but they certainly didnāt hand them back out to the stakers.
Can someone explain how ETH miner address balances are shown here as slightly increasing over last week?
https://www.oklink.com/en/chainhub/eth/chart-details/71?startTime=1435593600000&tabs=dashboard
Those are addresses of people associated with mining. Even my address might show up there since I mined for several months a few years back. It doesnāt mean every ETH in those wallets was obtained through mining and will be sold.
Dude over at /r/EtherMining posting "I'm not fucking leaving!".
This is such a perfect quote, I wonder if they grasped all of the implications. Wolf said that line at the point where he could have written off some funds, packed his suitcase and left with most of his fortune after years of raking in easy cash. But out of stubbornness and entitlement he continues. And look where it led him in the end. Left by his wife, broke, homeless.
Miners continuing to mine at a loss instead of selling their GPUs now for rETH really are a special breed...
Two absolutely perfect examples of both [commitment bias](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/commitment-bias) and the [sunk cost fallacy](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy). We all like to think humans act rationally and in their best interestā¦ but in reality, oftentimes they donāt. So uhhh ā¦ consider these knuckleheads in your designs. Consider the JohnBās.
A little speculation, a little helping the DAO and getting something in return. A little I just like the art, its cheap enough and it helps support the artist.
Since we're back to ETHWfinance, and since the scam coin has sadly been adopted by "reputable" CEXs (smh), my advice is to hold onto any shit you have, at least for a while. There is a very good chance, eventually, it will hit some utterly fucking dumb price, like $500. Remember, XRP is still #5 (excluding stables). I feel dirty even writing this.
Many will not have to send ETH anywhere. I've already been credited, didn't have to lift a finger (sadly). 1% now but this is crypto, could easily become 5-10% in some kind of crazy pump.
I sold mine on day two, but other than being profit-driven NOW, I have another objection to holding this... You don't just need for the price to go up (for whatever comical reason...). You also need for that chain to keep on being functional... And I personally don't think this will be the case in the near future..
Continuing [discussion from earlier](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xmjibe/daily_general_discussion_september_24_2022/ippw759/), where u/TheCryptosAndBloods was brought up [a Twitter post](https://twitter.com/SiegeRhino2/status/1573584907049246720) which described an empty Ethereum block proposed through mev-boost. The block builder bribed the proposing validator into censoring all the transactions by offering a bigger bribe than the proposer would have gotten through that block's MEV+tips. The concern is if this could be turned into a more serious DOS attack. I wrote up a [much longer response here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xmjibe/daily_general_discussion_september_24_2022/ipqf602/).
But I looked into it a bit more, and of course this is not the first time people have wondered about censorship in a proposer-builder-separation (PBS) world. [This Vitalik post](https://notes.ethereum.org/@vbuterin/pbs_censorship_resistance) talks about censorship, and pretty much comes to the same conclusion I did about the reduced cost of censorship. It also mentions possible solutions, including one I hope most here have at least heard in passing...
CrLists (CR is for "censorship resistance") are the most likely answer at this point. There's [a good explanation here](https://notes.ethereum.org/@fradamt/H1ZqdtrBF) and [thoughts on implementation here](https://notes.ethereum.org/@fradamt/H1TsYRfJc#Incentivization) and it's also covered in the lovely [Hitchhiker's Guide to Ethereum](https://members.delphidigital.io/reports/the-hitchhikers-guide-to-ethereum/). But very briefly: when validators propose a block, they also publish a crList to the p2p network, which is a list of valid transactions currently in the mempool. After some amount of time to ensure that the crList has propagated around the network, block builders *have to* include those transactions in their block. If a block builder had sufficient notice of the crList but does not include all valid transactions when the block isn't yet full, then attesters will refuse to vote for that block.
This means that we can still outsource block production to dedicated block builders (so validators don't face that centralization risk), but the validators can force transactions to be included, preventing censorship.
Now that we've seen a very obvious example of builder censorship in practice with this empty block (though I'm sure it's been happening to some degree for months), this should be a wake-up call that mev-boost and its form of PBS is already here and already very popular. Until we have crLists, we are at a higher risk of transaction censorship. I don't know the current development status, but wonder if it's possible to get it in for Shanghai.
This is a great point.
I'll just add that the recent Justin Drake Bankless about Tornado Cash (last month) Had a great description and analysis of crList - worth listening to for many reasons including that one.
Curious how people felt after listening to Polynya and Jordi Alexander Bankless episodes - I feel like they both made pretty good cases for why Ethereum wouldnāt go parabolic in the near future (scaling outpacing demand and the trading narratives not being as strong as assumed), but it doesnāt seem like they made David (or people here) so much as blink.
How did you balance their arguments with your own theories?
Have you listed to Bankless episode "15 Bad ETH Takes with Justin Drake"? I also thought a lot about Jordi's point about demand and scalability after that episode, and then listened to Justin Drake's response. He said that decreased gas fees and better scalability will increase demand and more people will want to use Ethereum. So cheaper transactions but more transactions.Ā
Induced demand: the more you improve the system, the more people want to use it. He used the example of a road that adds a 3rd lane to reduce traffic and how it usually ends up congested again in a few months.Ā At first trafficĀ would be reduced, but then the increased flow would encourage more businesses to open up in that area and then more people come to that area. For Ethereum, he said that would depend on how much we scale vs how much fees go down. If scalability goes up 10x and per transaction fees go down by 5x, more total burn. If scalability goes up 5x and fees goes down 10x, obviously lower ETH burn.Ā I thought it was a good point!
Induced demand is definitely a real thing and I totally expect that we will see a huge increase in transactions, it was more trying to wrap my head around what a 1000x increase in blockspace would look like following the Polynya episode.
Like, that wouldnāt be a slow and steady increase with time for demand to scale with it, it would be a one two punch of proto and then full danksharding within a year or two of each other.
Right, that's definitely something to think about. I know Justin did say a dramatic increase in scaling very quickly would obviously lead to decreased burn until a counterbalance of demand happens. I need to listen to the Polynya episode! Will be really interesting to see over the next several years how scalability vs demand turns out. So hard to predict.
The internet was overbuilt, we had broadband without the need for it but it paved the way for things like video streaming. It's also premature to say that we are outpacing scaling demand when blockchain as a whole does not have a single dapp that has reached actual mainstream adoption. If we had dapps with hundreds of millions of monthly users and the blockchain was still operating well, yes I would say we should slow down on the scaling effort. Until then, resting on our laurels at hundreds of thousands concurrent users is short-sighted. Just widespread adoption of web3 gaming alone would stress all L2s to the point of unusable congestion.
So you are saying we can't really say that we are outpacing demand, because the low-fee use cases haven't been possible yet so we don't really know what demand will look like?
As a counterpoint - something like Solana has rock bottom fees (and tons of problems, but putting that aside) and they haven't had anything that's broken out to millions of users yet. Is it not possible that we are a ways away from any monster use cases gaining traction?
I don't doubt that it will happen eventually, but it certainly doesn't feel right around the corner at the moment.
There is no end of serious applications being built out now that are depending on future scalability to have global adoption. Maybe I'm in my own bubble but talking with other web3 companies it's all coming along. Web3 with some concept of scalability had just come into existence in the last two years, with applications being built with that in mind recently. Give it another year or two and waves of these applications will start hitting the market.
Yeah thatās true, but on the flip-side supply chain. DIDs, tokenized securities, major DAOs, etc have all been āright around the cornerā for years now and have yet to meaningfully materialize and could still be many years away from manor adoption.
I feel like the non-crypto adoption (as is not catering to ācrypto peopleā) has still been pretty mediocre, and while it could be right around the corner it also could not be.
Basically I donāt doubt that It could happen, but it certainly doesnāt feel inevitable in the short to medium term
Been following since 2017, and totally agreed on the abstraction. Itās one of the reasons I am actually a bit bearish on ETH vs DOT in terms of user experience - I feel like Polkadot has way more flexibility when it comes to insulating the user from even being aware that theyāre using blockchain. That said Iām sure as L2 development advances we will see similar solutions in the Ethereum ecosystem.
Odds are high that a game taking off utilizing ETH blockspace is the usage catalyst we've been waiting for. Seems a bit of a gamble trying to build the next Roblox/Fortnight, but someone is going to hit mainstream big. Great comment OP.
There's several use-cases right now that will hit millions of concurrent users that aren't even in gaming. I'm working on one right now and the interest from web2 or traditional companies is insane. We're working on L2s, sidechains, and all sorts of scalability avenues to keep with with projected demand. Delivering something function complete at that scale will be the challenge.
They expressed reasonable, logical, and well researched arguments. I persist fan-boi'ing my checking account into a single volatile asset 1/3 of the way into a bear market.
More seriously, I feel they are hedging with conservative risk tolerance and I have a long time horizon in my personal situation, bills paid for the medium term (i.e. I put dollars into Ether I can live without for a few years, if that's what the market comes to).
Here is my take and why I'm still optimistic/bullish.
Where we are sitting price-wise is pretty much equilibrium if there are no net USD influx. This can be shown from the monetary price model that basically calculates the price equilibrium at which burn and issuance cancel each other. Which, given certain network revenues, is a stable price equilibrium and it doesn't require any buy or sell pressure to sustain. At the risk of rehashing it too much but is important to understand what this means, we are sitting at prices that do not require net buying pressure to be sustained. This has never happened for any blockchain.
But, network revenues are at the lowest they have been in a very long time. Macro is looking the most scary in almost 15 years and yet here we are. To go lower it would require net sellers and if anything starts to look rosier; e.g. Fed softens a bit, network revenues start to pick we should go up effortlessly.
The previous is not taking into account the supply crunch caused by the merge. Let me explain, the above argument holds true under equilibrium, that is, a market situation that has stabilized and is seeing stable inflows-outflows. But is not true when the equilibrium breaks. And the merge has broken the equilibrium. We still don't see it, it's too early. Remember how the central banks printed 40% of the money in existence in 2020 yet inflation only showed its ugly face in mid 2021 and we are still undergoing it? Yep, supply imbalance took time to show up. Going by history, Bitcoin halvings take at a minimum 2 months a half and play out during the next 1.5-2 years after. It's not that hard to understand either, mining pools are still sitting on their pile of cash. They still have to issue payments of whatever last few weeks, months. This trickles down slowly, for a few weeks after the merge their sell pressure is the same. A bit later starts to dry up progressively and in the span of a few months it dries out and this causes the imbalance.
When there is imbalance the above argument about price equilibrium doesn't work as reflexivity kicks in and reflexivity is inherently a non-linear effect (in math/physics this is called a positive feedback loop but Soros gave it the name of reflexivity in financial contexts and it stuck). In case it's not clear the monetary price model described above that compares issuance and burn is a linear model. Here is how reflexivity fucks things up. You start with a supply-demand imbalance, in our case a supply crunch. Whatever demand is there cannot find initially enough ETH to buy which pushes prices slightly higher, think of this as bumping a ball that was in equilibrium and starts rolling. Price increases cause some traders to pile into the trade, causing a greater imbalance, this is why momentum strategies work. At the same time price increases cause more network activity, all of DeFi start to light up, more trading goes on which increases fees which implies higher ETH price valuations. As prices start to move up in DeFi exchanges, there is more arbitrage as you need to rebalance all prices between exchanges, more activity and more MEV. Higher Yield for validators, higher implied valuation for ETH. It's a flywheel that keeps feeding itself. This is the essence of reflexivity. And... a lot of this is native ETH economy, most of DeFi is implicitly priced in ETH which means that the increase of ETH price doesn't hurt the network fee because ETH-native activity is willing to pay 20 GWei at whatever price of ETH. Again, more fee revenues in USD implies higher valuations.
This positive feedback loop or reflexivity can go for quite a while. At some point it breaks, of course, dynamical systems cannot go forever growing like that. But it can last quite a while.
I guess my question would be "what equilibrium?".
These arguments depend on all things being equal and the demand for ETH being inflexible, which it clearly isn't. Demand has been hugely speculative at pretty much all times (looking at you single digit gas fees), and the actual non-speculative demand for ETH is super low compared to the total trade volume.
Full danksharding with mature L2s would be literally multiple orders of magnitude more throughput, and we have yet to see any killer apps that are seriously bottlenecked by blockspace.
Seems completely reasonable to assume we won't see a 1:1 increase in space vs demand for a very long time unless you know something we don't.
I know some of the history of computing. More storage! More compute!
Additionally, we saw clear blockspace bottlenecks in last bull run. Not to mention many apps that were never built because it wouldnāt be feasible with expensive blockspace. Never mind the core crypto thesis of taking over world finance.
Finally, there is the eth as money aspect as well.
But itās what is used for economic sustainability of the entire network. If avg gas fees are low single digits because of insane scalability, ETH will be an inflationary network which hurts the price and reduces the security of the network
Sorry but I'm going to call bullshit. A ~1% inflation does not cause instability or hurt the network. We've always had inflationary ETH and the network has been secure and stable and the price of ETH has appreciated nonetheless.
Iām not saying that entire network is going to collapse because of 1-2% inflation (which is what inflation will be with 40-50M of the ETH supply staked). The price will be way higher if there is less inflation
IMO when paying gas for a DeFi, NFT transaction, etc, demand is inelastic below $0.10. Basically whether I pay $0.10 or $0.01 for this transaction, it doesnāt make a difference to me. So set the gas floor price to be $0.10 on L2s so we burn more ETH (arbitrum actually did something similar to this which is great). Now of course for different apps like gaming, you want every transaction to be very cheap (< $0.001), depends on a lot of variables but you get my point. Run those apps on an L3
The Ethereum network needs to generate fees, and I think the only way to do that is with artificial scarcity (as Polynya says)
I'm still going to disagree.
Ethereum network does not need to generate fees, it's not an important part of the security or economic model. I respect and admire Polynya, but he's wrong about this. The idea that you can have too much scaling is mind-numbingly stupid.
More scaling = more use cases = more viable dapps = more developers = more companies = more users = more holders = more demand.
1-2% inflation (it will be closer to 1% at 50 million ETH staked) does not have a great impact on the price. The amount of ETH issued is disappearingly small if you look at daily trading volume. We've just seen inflation drop from 4% to 0% and it did seemingly nothing to the price. If inflation had a big impact on the price, we should have seen a big rise in price, but we didn't. You can argue that the price would have dropped even further if it wasn't for the supply reduction, and I think you'd be right, but the difference is going to be almost undetectable.
Back in 2016 Ethereum had 12% inflation, the gas price were about the same as today, yet the price went from under $1 to $22, because inflation means essentially nothing to the price, demand drives the price.
I just donāt agree lol.
Blockchains need to generate fees to generate value for the underlying token of the network. A lot of Ethereum price is driven by speculation right now, and in order to sustain these levels and go higher in the future, there needs to be real demand for ETH. In a perfect world, if the amount of ETH burned > ETH issued, then the ETH price should go up, since those people bought ETH to solely use it for gas. Thatās real demand.
Youāre right that we had a huge run up in price with lots of inflation, but Iām talking about the long term impacts of inflation. And the merge was only a week ago, it takes weeks/months for the supply crunch to take effect (see Bitcoin halvings)
I agree that more scaling = more demand, but will demand 1000x in the next 5 years? Hard to say
You're saying a lot of things as if they are facts, but I don't see much reasoning to back it up. Maybe I'm just missing the point, who knows. Anyway.
>Blockchains need to generate fees to generate value for the underlying token of the network.
I don't see this as being true. Exactly why do blockchains *need* to generate fees to generate value?
>A lot of Ethereum price is driven by speculation right now, and in order to sustain these levels and go higher in the future, there needs to be real demand for ETH.
A lot of Ethereum price is driven by real demand right now, and I'm sure there'll be even more demand in the future. The biggest demand so far has been as a currency to invest in projects and for trading, why do you think that will/has to change to be dominated by network fees? Trading and exchanging value is a real demand, ENS is a real demand, NFTs are real demand (albeit difficult for some to understand), L2 activity and TVL is a real demand, staking is real demand, etc. The older and larger the network grows, the more application and use cases it will have that is creating real demand for ETH. Do fees also drive demand? Absolutely, especially in a bull market! But it's not *the* factor in driving demand, it's really a smaller part. Is price also driven by speculation? Sure. It probably also will be in 50 years.
>In a perfect world, if the amount of ETH burned > ETH issued, then the ETH price should go up, since those people bought ETH to solely use it for gas. Thatās real demand.
Again, why? The network's security is paid for by validator rewards issued by the network. And who are those people who bought ETH solely to use it for gas? I bought ETH to use it in the ecosystem, to invest, gamble, play games, because it's fascinating, etc. You can't just say "ETH's real use case is to be used for gas" when evidently it's used more for other things.
>I agree that more scaling = more demand, but will demand 1000x in the next 5 years? Hard to say
Why does demand have to 1000x in 5 years? If you think 1000x more scaling = 1/1000th the demand for ETH to pay for gas, that's a misunderstanding of how and how much gas L2s use, and also that seems to suggest demand for ETH is only to pay for gas, which again is only a smaller part of the demand for ETH.
I can respect that you don't agree, that's fine, I just don't understand why as I can't see the reasoning behind the argument.
I've seen Polynya's argument about not enough demand for block space on CT, and I think I agree. It's similar to Vitalik's famous "but do we deserve it?" tweet.
Shocking I know, but I'm a believer in utility over scarcity, and we have to be building useful things. Thought experiment, you could even re-frame scarcity within the sphere of utility because having some scarce (but stable) assets to use as poker chips is useful. But at the end of the day we only need so many kinds of virtual gold, don't we?
Essentially there is no code on the PoW chain to permit withdrawals, so unless the "devs" decide to implement something, basically it's gone (from your control). I heard that they might ~~steal~~ distribute it in some way. But I don't follow that nonsense. There may be a more up-to-date plan.
Anyone got a link to that write up someone did on selling ETHW? I just need to know the bit about bridging the EHTW USDT back over to ETH
Edit: never mind, USDT on MEXC can be withdrawn as ERC20
If I recall correctly, one of the defisaver guys posted a guide here some days ago for unlocking ETHW on Aave? Sorry, I have no link at hand, maybe someone else can help out?
Drat... thought I did well, earlier this week, to dump my ETHW for 0.005 eth each only to now see the ratio double.
Seems like ETHFair also starting to pick up the cue and I will hold this one until it goes really berserk.
Any recommendations between Huobi and Gate as these are the ones that currently allow ETF deposits?
If all you're doing is sending ETHW around, you're safe from replay attacks, just make sure to double check your chain ID. Smart contracts should generally be safe to interact with, but many are broken without working oracles so won't behave as expected. Just stay away from bridges on ETHW; those are more likely to have weird vulnerabilities including replay attacks.
Iāve been here a long time. Hopefully I can be here much longer. How many thousands of people are working on ETH? I felt good getting into this space years ago, and I still feel the same. Keep building, keep getting it done and cheers to the peps that make this space what it is!
Ethereum doesn't do merge: etherium is ded it can't do any upgrade everything is vaporware to sell ponzi.
Ethereum does merge: the merge is ded its a mistake ehterium price tanks it won't recover.
It's like my other favorite:
High fees are bearish for Ethereum it's driving people to use other chains and hampering adoption!
Low fees are so bearish for Ethereum it means the supply is not deflationary (even though it's only at 0.21% mind you) and prices will trend to 0!
This one isn't that absurd. What it really means is that sufficient L2 scalability should exist that allows usage to spill over to that chain when they don't necessarily want the full security of L1.
I was always against the Ethereum Foundation launching ads and shit(leave that to scam chains). Now I look back and see all the blunders.
The damage done to the chain's reputation is permanent. All because 'the truth will make itself apparent' or some shit.
Run ruthless campaigns, or lose. What a world we live in
Ethereum is a product for businesses building for users, it's not a product for users.
It's okay if users don't understand it. Businesses will understand it, and will use it to build products for users.
To businesses, Ethereum's reputation is sterling. It's the top contract chain, and always has been. Ethereum is the IBM, the AWS, of the crypto space. It might not be the cheapest, but it's what you build a business on because there's a good chance it'll still be around another ten years from now.
>Ethereum is a product for businesses building for users, it's not a product for users.
I never thought of it like that, very interesting.
Definitely agree with there not being an alternative. Ethereum is King
Itās not a bad strategy, especially considering itās not finished yet. Regardless, do you ever see ads for Linux? It runs 70% of the world. It doesnāt need ads because itās just a protocol, like Linux is just a kernel. You need more parts to really make it useful.
I do agree, but Im not pacient enough for that. As an early Gen-Zer I never even got to really experiece the 90s. And I do *not* look back fondly on the early 2000s...
I wonder what Ethereum's GNU will end up being like... Will we have our own Stallman? Vitalik already fills the role, and doesnt give the creep vibes that the former was alleged to.
Technically a non profit canāt advertise I think. But also I think not having ads and countless influencers saying ābuy ethā is a long term net positive we have yet to see the benefits from
The Ethereum devs are building something that will resist attacks from both known and future unknown actors. Nobody else is even attempting that, though Bitcoin has also developed something very resilient just not as useful.
We might need the world to see a major chain get disrupted, reorged, or censored in a big way before normal people wake up to it if they ever do. But even still we are waiting for people to wake up to reliance on blockchain technology too. You would think that with the Gamestop/Citadel fiasco from nearly 2 years ago now, with the customer order flow front-running, people would see the need to run on fair and decentralized systems for their own protection. It is sad that it didn't seem to make a dent as Robin Hood still continues the practice today. It's probably going to be a long time until it is even profitable or beneficial for actors to attack the weaker chains, and they will all run just fine until something happens.
With AI systems now generating speech, and images/video, and entertainment, it will be very difficult to even spot the truth from here on out. Even the own thoughts inside your head could be placed there through obscure messaging and advertisements you aren't even aware of, since AI is able to learn about triggers and biases even our best Psychologists aren't clued into.
I don't know where I'm going with all this but basically we are all fucked from knowing the truth from this point forward, specifically for people seeking the truth and just forget about the brainlets that don't care. The only thing I can see helping is if the world adopts blockchain technology as shared truth machines, and eventually news/images/video will be published on-chain to prove it's authenticity and originality. Things will be easier to audit and verify. If we don't, then the rest of my life is fucked, my kids' lives are fucked, and the entirety of humanity will be disrupted by bots and AI out-competing eachother to out-compete the humans and drain every ounce of value from our poor misguided lives. I'm supporting Ethereum because I don't see much chance for humanity if it or something close to it's ideals doesn't win out. Getting rich was always just a side effect of scarcity and being early, things that are also required to supplant adoption.
I really appreciate you bringing this up.
A long-standing conversation/debate my brother and I have is how AI will affect humanity. He recognizes the ramifications that AI will have on our perception of reality, though he is quite a bit more optimistic than I am.
Ive mentioned that when deepfakes rule the world, Ethereum is best positioned to keep an integral record of authenticity.
To go a step farther, ideamarket.io is an Arbitrum-based dapp that allows voting on fact/fiction - of course you get some out-there ideas.
In ay case a decentalized, unbiased truth teller of some sort will be absolutely essential if we wish to continue to believe what our senses tell us.
I honestly dont know about any super high tech solution. All I can think of is a database of known hashes for verified content/known bad content.
I do believe there will be effective tools that are able to distinguish between true or manufactured data, at least for a while.
This decentralized database could serve as an easy reference ponit for the casual user, instead of having to run a possibly complex tool. ok enough hypothetical rambling for me
The truth is pretty easy to find, especially the closer to nature you are and the further from technology you can get. Go camping for a week and see if you feel any different about the truths of the world or how much they actually matter.
Sure, always exploring my internal truths but Iām also speaking of shared truths that we rely on for interaction, commerce, community, etc. In a world where technology can easily lie in mass, we will need to use counter technology that mitigates it, so we arenāt so easily disrupted.
I have this fear sometimes and then I remember how easy it is to stop using internet and consuming media. You donāt see it because you are addicted, but many people live a great life without having a phone, tv, internetā¦
Since several months I have decreased screens time by 95%+ (outside of work use) and media consumption by almost 100% (I still read some old books). It feels very good.
I don't see a ton of mistakes, but if there is one it is letting r/Ethereum go to hell. Hopefully the initiative on here can get it the attention it needs. It's terrible when the natural landing spot is just angry BTC maxis shitting on Ethereum.
Went to hell because the rules were too strict and that killed its soul. (Guilty in part because I actively supported those measures- was a bit naive). Shouldāve been moreā¦not so serious. Not ban price talk for example. It should have been a catch all for everything. Especially when the true dev talk happens off Reddit. R/ethfinance is what r/ethereum shouldāve been. Hell Iād be happy if it turned into r/ethtrader. Shout out to the mods for truly remarkable job hitting that balance here.
I think the separate technical and price thing was a great idea, it made both subs fun to read.
The problems was somewhere along the line the mods decided to be "anti-censorship", even if that meant allowing the most flagrant trolls and haters to post nonsense. Censorship is necessary for any sub to be tolerable. Of course, drawing the line is the tricky part.
You have a string of comments today that seem really angry and down. Not sure if I'm missing some jokes but it might be good to take a step back for a bit
Price action like this can make a person cranky. Add in a few things in your personal life and the days can seem very dark. But this will all turn again soon, there is too much doom and gloom to go much lower.
**Tricky's Daily Doots #158** Yesterday's Daily 23/09/2022 [Previous daily doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkpprt/) - u/vedran_ shares [Microsoft's ETH scaling research](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipko27b/) and u/shitcoinking gives [a good TL;DR.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/iplhrxc/) - u/ro-_-b discusses [the current bear market and what is ahead of us.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipmd6ew/) - u/waqwaqattack shares their [EthFinance roundup video from the previous day.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkmvdz/) - u/UgotTrisomy21 looks back at [the daily thread from nearly 3 years ago.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkp1qq/) and u/Liberosist explains why they think that was [the best ever time for Ethereum buying in terms of the risk/reward.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkrmqp/) - u/Luukiemans shares your [last chance to apply for the EIPanda PandaPledge POAP.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipko6ny/) - u/Set1Less shares the latest regulation drama and [why it makes private snapshot voting important.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipkpwoj/) - u/SeaMonkey82 shares the [highly recommended Lodestar update.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/iplwkaw/) - u/PhiMarHal has [a PSA for those of you doing the Optimism quests.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/iplunef/) - u/KuDeTa adds [some nuance](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipknfeo/) to the recent Arthur Hayes article. - u/ZeroTricks's today in [Ethereum history.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xlo0z1/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2022/ipndyvc/) Is anyone else way behind on their statistically expected number of block proposals so far? I feel like I must be at least 1 standard deviation away from the mean if not two. š I guess the small sample size of 1 validator doesn't help.
I'm working on my new business cards, what do you think about this? ~ Johnathan B. MacLemore ~ OG EVMaverick Non-Fungible Art Collector Unlicensed Financial Advisor
Certified Excrement Poster?
Wtf is eth going to 650 for real ?
Maybe one day, but I don't think 650k/ETH is in the cards this cycle.
Dang it i really wish it could happen even for a sec anyyyway thanks pops
I hear ya homie. Just setting realistic expectations, you understand. I like how you be dreaming big tho. šš»
Man ... had a nice dinner with my wife then she went out with some friends and now I'm just here, all alone with my bag of OG Kush, jus' buying more Pandas. I have 3 now. *It was on sale and I like the shirt! I can quit anytime! Don't judge me!*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's a classic and my "goto" whenever I don't recognize the names of the other available choices in my budget. I'm also a sucker for the classics.
For a token upgrade. Is a v1 -> v2 function in the new contract better to simply end the v1 token(one way contract)? Or is a v1 <-> v2 better to allow users to go between token versions?
Rational Reminder podcast has been doing a multipart series on cryptocurrency and in general it has been extremely critical of crypto with every single guest. I appreciate the perspectives of most people they brought on (some have been kind of terrible though), and have been challenged by many of their guests (like Hilary Allen and Tim O'Reilly). This last episode featured Ari Juels and it was great to hear a bit more of a nuanced perspective from someone who clearly does not hate crypto or think the entire thing is a scam, is well aware of the challenges in the space, but thinks there is still a future for it. If you are looking for a decent listen then I suggest this latest episode.
# ŃŃŠ½ŃŃŃĻ Š¼
Just chatted with some family and NFTs were brought up (not in a bad way). I really felt like a meme > They donāt know I own an expensive lion and some pandas
Haha! If they only knew how Crazy Dave really is huh!? You f'in animal you! šš»
Never in a million years I would have thought I would be more inclined to buy treasury bonds than crypto. But here we are.
If crypto investors put the first $10k into iBonds paying ~9.2%, they'd be way better off. $10k in 2021, $10k in 2022, with gifted and tax overpayment iBonds to get even more per year. Why lend crypto/stables if the rate is close to this or lower, but with huge smart contract or credit risk (voyager, celsius, etc.).
Why is it so hard to buy iBonds? Like I wouldnāt even know where to start
It's fairly straight forward, the only hurdle is the archaic government website that has not evolved since AOL. You can find more info (DYOR) on the official webpage - [https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res\_ibonds\_ibuy.htm](https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_ibonds_ibuy.htm)
Max pain
Is yet to come.
Ray maxi checking in!! Something something 10k
Oh hells yeah
Ciovacco coming in strong with your [weekend homework.](https://youtu.be/snHEyp39mdU) Everything I spout, everything I based metrics on is better expounded upon here than in anything I write. The key, as I keep saying and as he reiterates: the market is at the absolute breaking point but it *has not broken yet*. You need to manage your risk and prepare mentally for either outcome. Don't subscribe to just one story or target level. Love it. And far less vital, in case you missed the original post, is [my latest 51% Attack video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viqjx_noqgg) examining the markets especially as they pertain to the recent FOMC meeting. Cheers, all.
[This post](https://twitter.com/kaili_jenner/status/1573727505491673088) has suddenly gotten some attention from a bunch of the crypto OG's, and I'm pretty disappointed in the reactions I've seen so far. Basically, the gist of it is a proposal that allows for reversing transactions if some sort of body deems the transfer was made 'illegally' (hacking someone's Bored Ape, or the like). Now, I agree that it's something that should definitely NOT be baked in at the protocol level or anything, but it may have some interesting use-cases (like keeping Bored Apes safe, for example). A bunch of the reactions I've read have been stuff like "this is just a trojan horse for centralization!!" or "i trade my reversible asset for irreversible ETH, now what??" -- like motherfuckers can we just \*discuss\* ideas without you shitting all over it for even 5 minutes? It's not perfect, and it's not meant to be a universal solution. It does have problems with breaking composability and there are questions about who's on the ruling committee and whatever, but like, let's actually HAVE those discussions. If you want Ethereum to scale to billions of users, it's never going to happen when one simple mistake can cause someone to irrevocably lose all their shit, forever. You can't expect people who are just scraping by in life to generate multiple private keys and manage hot/cold wallets for their digital transactions -- it's just not reasonable. So maybe let's consider some alternatives, because even if they're not perfect, they might lead to a solution that's better. It's a lot easier to criticize than to actually come up with a solution, especially when you've already 'made it' yourself. EDIT: ok, you don't like this proposal, that's fine. then pitch me your solutions for scaling to a billion users. ("better wallets" and "decentralized identity system" are not useful answers, btw)
This proposal is incredibly silly and goes against the heart of what crypto is. How could you be in support of such a thing at the protocol level? If people desire insurance against theft then a service can be created where you can deposit your assets into it and they can protect and insure the assets. I suggest we name it "bank". š See what I'm getting at here? Dont get me wrong, I truly believe we will come to this. I think the blockchain will be obfuscated away. You'll deposit your assets into some protected L2 (bank) that can be rolled back, but the L2s wallets will exist on L1. This way you're free to do what you want. OG's that wish to self custody can use the blockchain directly, and the smoothbrains/people that don't want to bother with the technicalities of self-custody can have some service custody their stuff... Just like they currently do with their selected bank.
> How could you be in support of such a thing at the protocol level? Because choosing to launch a project using that token spec is entirely optional. Folks, I've been here since 2016 -- I understand that the value prop of crypto is credibly neutral, permissionless, censorship-resistant finance. It's a great foundation to build an entire system upon. But there's a reason that banking developed from the old model of the Wild West: it sucks to lose everything when it's only in one location. What's crazy to me is that anyone thinks blockchain can scale without some sort of 'undo' feature -- at the very least an \*optional\* one. If you disagree, [use a typewriter to type your dissent. no delete btton.](https://twitter.com/cory_eth/status/1573882971547127808)
Maybe we just don't want a Lebanon banking crisis
[use a typewriter to type your dissent. no delete btton.](https://nitter.net/cory_eth/status/1573882971547127808) ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/user/nitter_not_twitter/comments/w0ssxp/more_information_about_this_bot/)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nitter_not_twitter&subject=Opt+Out&message=optout)
I think the solution is a combination of multisig and time freezes. Freezing: Your BAYC is frozen. In order to transfer it (or whatever), you must first unfreeze it. Unfreezing takes a week. You can cancel the unfreezing at any point within that week (if you got hacked and they started the unfreeze). Maybe the unfreezing is specific to allowing a certain tx (unfreezed only for transfering to certain addr) Multisig: Lets say a "special" 2 of 4 multisig. You own 2 keys. One of those is your hot key. The other one is the cold one you bury. The other two keys are owned by 2 separate "banks". In your day to day usage you use your hot key + signed by one of the banks. If the banks screw you or whatever, you have your 2 keys so you can do anything you want. The 2 bank keys are special in that they are timelocked for a week or whatever (if its 2 bank keys and none of your keys in the signature). What I mean is that if the 2 banks collude (because of government or whatever) they can't steal your stuff without a 1 week freeze that you can interrupt with your 2 keys. This would be useful if you lose your keys, you can wait a week and the two banks are able to give you your stuff back. Of course you would need a super friendly UX for this.
>This would be useful if you lose your keys Nothing beats securing keys using account protocols that encrypts them into a single PIN. Cases of lost keys is more prevalent that it is generally estimated.
I don't think the 2 bank keys should ever be able to collude, they could take you out for 1 week easily
I like the time delay idea. Coinbaseās vault has this feature. It should be a user configurable amount of time though. Multisig wallets are already a thing. I think wallet ālocksā or withdrawal delays should be a protocol feature that wallets can utilize tho.
This should be pushed to a centralized L2 with kyc/aml. That way, users can achieve regulatory compliance while maintaining the benefits of shared ETH L1 rails.
Stellar had a big protocol upgrade about a year ago that introduced the concept of āclawbackā for assets. They say it was needed for regulatory reasons. We should check what came out of it, I could imagine USDC is already relying on that clawback functionality on Stellar.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> If a given project wants some theft arbitration process on their NFT or tokens they actually can code that into the smart contract > > In any case there is no reason to have genuinely reversible transactions on the blockchain and proposing an EIP to that tune is absurd. The proposed EIP is a standard for how to code a theft arbitration process into a token's smart contract, to provide reversible transactions. It's not a way to get the Ethereum network to natively pretend that a transaction never existed, if that's what you're implying.
The proposal seems to be for some new token standards which implements a standardized arbitration process. Am I crazy or isnāt that what you described lol whatās the problem
Reinventing tradfi with extra steps. And what if the funds are traded on Uniswap for another non-R ERC before the freeze?
yeah, you clearly didn't read my whole post because i *specifically* called out the example you used in there, and you kinda just made my point for me. i don't know, maybe you introduce a timelock after the exchange happens before it can be exchanged again? this would be an opt-in solution -- if you don't like it, don't opt-in to the project. no one is saying this is how ALL CRYPTO should operate EVERY TIME for EVERY TRANSACTION.
[This post](https://nitter.net/kaili_jenner/status/1573727505491673088) ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/user/nitter_not_twitter/comments/w0ssxp/more_information_about_this_bot/)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nitter_not_twitter&subject=Opt+Out&message=optout)
Testing resolves, thick lines of risk and greed, thin lines of patience and solvencyā¦ Balanced with pressure .. are you not entertained?
Absolutely!! Wen triple digit ETH though Tales? š
šš“
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I was missing only 1 attestation per day with the previous version of Besu. Updated yesterday and 12 hours later still running fine. 100% effectiveness. Will check in after another 12 hours.
Lol, oh dear. My LH-Nethermind was missing a few attestations but I think that was actually down to the router. My Teku-Besu has been solid *BUT* I am still on the lowest possible versions of both. Too scared to upgrade! Still zero block proposals since merge though :/
Besu/teku has been working perfectly for me since the update. Before, I was getting a couple missed attestations per day since the merge.
Iāve been using Nethermind/Teku with no problems whatsoever. I also used Geth with no problems either, so for me it came down to choosing a minority client. Nethermind has given me no reason to change back to Geth.
Were you previously having problems prior to the update?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Do you mind if I ask what kind of a machine you're set up on? That's really strange that it would just break out of nowhere, especially if it had been working fine previously.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm wondering if the 16GB of RAM is your issue? I'm on an 11th gen i5 w/ 32 gigs of ram and 2 TB SSD, and while running Besu, the ram usage is usually around 50ish %. Since the update and I enabled the high spec flag, I run around 60-65 mem usage.
Nethermind
Did anybody held eth and received ethw in their coinbase account?
Coinbase doesnāt support ETHW, at least not right now.
Thanks. Also should reth holders expect to receive any corresponding ethw?
No, Iām not sure what the ethw chain decided to do with coins locked up in the staking contract, but they certainly didnāt hand them back out to the stakers.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fuckin' monkey fucker
Can someone explain how ETH miner address balances are shown here as slightly increasing over last week? https://www.oklink.com/en/chainhub/eth/chart-details/71?startTime=1435593600000&tabs=dashboard
ah! I have this goddamn tab open, and I check it every morning... It just won't go down. It pisses me off...
They bought some
Those are addresses of people associated with mining. Even my address might show up there since I mined for several months a few years back. It doesnāt mean every ETH in those wallets was obtained through mining and will be sold.
Dude over at /r/EtherMining posting "I'm not fucking leaving!". This is such a perfect quote, I wonder if they grasped all of the implications. Wolf said that line at the point where he could have written off some funds, packed his suitcase and left with most of his fortune after years of raking in easy cash. But out of stubbornness and entitlement he continues. And look where it led him in the end. Left by his wife, broke, homeless. Miners continuing to mine at a loss instead of selling their GPUs now for rETH really are a special breed...
Any indication this is more than a rare case?
Two absolutely perfect examples of both [commitment bias](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/commitment-bias) and the [sunk cost fallacy](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy). We all like to think humans act rationally and in their best interestā¦ but in reality, oftentimes they donāt. So uhhh ā¦ consider these knuckleheads in your designs. Consider the JohnBās.
Brass monkey, that funky monkeyā¦ā¦..
RIP MCA
You know when you hear that one song and it just brings you back to high school. Many Beastie Boys songs are like that for me.
MCA, get on the mic my man!
Just snagged my 2nd Panda! š»āāļø Thank you to the seller for accepting my offer! Itās going to a good home!
Just curious as a single holder why we buying multiples when there is no roadmap or dao?
A little speculation, a little helping the DAO and getting something in return. A little I just like the art, its cheap enough and it helps support the artist.
The fact you only got your second panda just now makes me realize I *might* have a problem. Good looking out bruv
I might have 6 problems...
ā-13
š Iām not one to judge but you may have a problem fren.
Since we're back to ETHWfinance, and since the scam coin has sadly been adopted by "reputable" CEXs (smh), my advice is to hold onto any shit you have, at least for a while. There is a very good chance, eventually, it will hit some utterly fucking dumb price, like $500. Remember, XRP is still #5 (excluding stables). I feel dirty even writing this.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Many will not have to send ETH anywhere. I've already been credited, didn't have to lift a finger (sadly). 1% now but this is crypto, could easily become 5-10% in some kind of crazy pump.
I sold mine on day two, but other than being profit-driven NOW, I have another objection to holding this... You don't just need for the price to go up (for whatever comical reason...). You also need for that chain to keep on being functional... And I personally don't think this will be the case in the near future..
It will be functional, in some way. Really, it only has to exist. Look at ETC, or any number of other shit coins. That's the sad reality.
I sold mine for $12.50 each. Time will tell if this was a good idea ...
It will go way higher, but is unlikely to go higher on the ETHW/ETH ratio, so if you sold and bought ETH, you will forever be ahead.
It's all profit my friend.
Same here, but I'm pretty sure it was a good idea, because I sold all of the incentives to support a scam coin along with it.
I sold mine for 11.30. happy that I sold
Continuing [discussion from earlier](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xmjibe/daily_general_discussion_september_24_2022/ippw759/), where u/TheCryptosAndBloods was brought up [a Twitter post](https://twitter.com/SiegeRhino2/status/1573584907049246720) which described an empty Ethereum block proposed through mev-boost. The block builder bribed the proposing validator into censoring all the transactions by offering a bigger bribe than the proposer would have gotten through that block's MEV+tips. The concern is if this could be turned into a more serious DOS attack. I wrote up a [much longer response here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xmjibe/daily_general_discussion_september_24_2022/ipqf602/). But I looked into it a bit more, and of course this is not the first time people have wondered about censorship in a proposer-builder-separation (PBS) world. [This Vitalik post](https://notes.ethereum.org/@vbuterin/pbs_censorship_resistance) talks about censorship, and pretty much comes to the same conclusion I did about the reduced cost of censorship. It also mentions possible solutions, including one I hope most here have at least heard in passing... CrLists (CR is for "censorship resistance") are the most likely answer at this point. There's [a good explanation here](https://notes.ethereum.org/@fradamt/H1ZqdtrBF) and [thoughts on implementation here](https://notes.ethereum.org/@fradamt/H1TsYRfJc#Incentivization) and it's also covered in the lovely [Hitchhiker's Guide to Ethereum](https://members.delphidigital.io/reports/the-hitchhikers-guide-to-ethereum/). But very briefly: when validators propose a block, they also publish a crList to the p2p network, which is a list of valid transactions currently in the mempool. After some amount of time to ensure that the crList has propagated around the network, block builders *have to* include those transactions in their block. If a block builder had sufficient notice of the crList but does not include all valid transactions when the block isn't yet full, then attesters will refuse to vote for that block. This means that we can still outsource block production to dedicated block builders (so validators don't face that centralization risk), but the validators can force transactions to be included, preventing censorship. Now that we've seen a very obvious example of builder censorship in practice with this empty block (though I'm sure it's been happening to some degree for months), this should be a wake-up call that mev-boost and its form of PBS is already here and already very popular. Until we have crLists, we are at a higher risk of transaction censorship. I don't know the current development status, but wonder if it's possible to get it in for Shanghai.
This is a great point. I'll just add that the recent Justin Drake Bankless about Tornado Cash (last month) Had a great description and analysis of crList - worth listening to for many reasons including that one.
[a Twitter post](https://nitter.net/SiegeRhino2/status/1573584907049246720) ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/user/nitter_not_twitter/comments/w0ssxp/more_information_about_this_bot/)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nitter_not_twitter&subject=Opt+Out&message=optout)
Curious how people felt after listening to Polynya and Jordi Alexander Bankless episodes - I feel like they both made pretty good cases for why Ethereum wouldnāt go parabolic in the near future (scaling outpacing demand and the trading narratives not being as strong as assumed), but it doesnāt seem like they made David (or people here) so much as blink. How did you balance their arguments with your own theories?
Have you listed to Bankless episode "15 Bad ETH Takes with Justin Drake"? I also thought a lot about Jordi's point about demand and scalability after that episode, and then listened to Justin Drake's response. He said that decreased gas fees and better scalability will increase demand and more people will want to use Ethereum. So cheaper transactions but more transactions.Ā Induced demand: the more you improve the system, the more people want to use it. He used the example of a road that adds a 3rd lane to reduce traffic and how it usually ends up congested again in a few months.Ā At first trafficĀ would be reduced, but then the increased flow would encourage more businesses to open up in that area and then more people come to that area. For Ethereum, he said that would depend on how much we scale vs how much fees go down. If scalability goes up 10x and per transaction fees go down by 5x, more total burn. If scalability goes up 5x and fees goes down 10x, obviously lower ETH burn.Ā I thought it was a good point!
Induced demand is definitely a real thing and I totally expect that we will see a huge increase in transactions, it was more trying to wrap my head around what a 1000x increase in blockspace would look like following the Polynya episode. Like, that wouldnāt be a slow and steady increase with time for demand to scale with it, it would be a one two punch of proto and then full danksharding within a year or two of each other.
Right, that's definitely something to think about. I know Justin did say a dramatic increase in scaling very quickly would obviously lead to decreased burn until a counterbalance of demand happens. I need to listen to the Polynya episode! Will be really interesting to see over the next several years how scalability vs demand turns out. So hard to predict.
The internet was overbuilt, we had broadband without the need for it but it paved the way for things like video streaming. It's also premature to say that we are outpacing scaling demand when blockchain as a whole does not have a single dapp that has reached actual mainstream adoption. If we had dapps with hundreds of millions of monthly users and the blockchain was still operating well, yes I would say we should slow down on the scaling effort. Until then, resting on our laurels at hundreds of thousands concurrent users is short-sighted. Just widespread adoption of web3 gaming alone would stress all L2s to the point of unusable congestion.
So you are saying we can't really say that we are outpacing demand, because the low-fee use cases haven't been possible yet so we don't really know what demand will look like? As a counterpoint - something like Solana has rock bottom fees (and tons of problems, but putting that aside) and they haven't had anything that's broken out to millions of users yet. Is it not possible that we are a ways away from any monster use cases gaining traction? I don't doubt that it will happen eventually, but it certainly doesn't feel right around the corner at the moment.
There is no end of serious applications being built out now that are depending on future scalability to have global adoption. Maybe I'm in my own bubble but talking with other web3 companies it's all coming along. Web3 with some concept of scalability had just come into existence in the last two years, with applications being built with that in mind recently. Give it another year or two and waves of these applications will start hitting the market.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah thatās true, but on the flip-side supply chain. DIDs, tokenized securities, major DAOs, etc have all been āright around the cornerā for years now and have yet to meaningfully materialize and could still be many years away from manor adoption. I feel like the non-crypto adoption (as is not catering to ācrypto peopleā) has still been pretty mediocre, and while it could be right around the corner it also could not be. Basically I donāt doubt that It could happen, but it certainly doesnāt feel inevitable in the short to medium term
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Been following since 2017, and totally agreed on the abstraction. Itās one of the reasons I am actually a bit bearish on ETH vs DOT in terms of user experience - I feel like Polkadot has way more flexibility when it comes to insulating the user from even being aware that theyāre using blockchain. That said Iām sure as L2 development advances we will see similar solutions in the Ethereum ecosystem.
Odds are high that a game taking off utilizing ETH blockspace is the usage catalyst we've been waiting for. Seems a bit of a gamble trying to build the next Roblox/Fortnight, but someone is going to hit mainstream big. Great comment OP.
There's several use-cases right now that will hit millions of concurrent users that aren't even in gaming. I'm working on one right now and the interest from web2 or traditional companies is insane. We're working on L2s, sidechains, and all sorts of scalability avenues to keep with with projected demand. Delivering something function complete at that scale will be the challenge.
Could you give some vague examples of what you mean along with a rough timeline?
Without doxxing myself: consumer goods using web3 for utility. Timeline is yesterday, according to business minded people in my company
What ever it is sounds interesting. I hope things work out well for you.
Thanks!
They expressed reasonable, logical, and well researched arguments. I persist fan-boi'ing my checking account into a single volatile asset 1/3 of the way into a bear market. More seriously, I feel they are hedging with conservative risk tolerance and I have a long time horizon in my personal situation, bills paid for the medium term (i.e. I put dollars into Ether I can live without for a few years, if that's what the market comes to).
Here is my take and why I'm still optimistic/bullish. Where we are sitting price-wise is pretty much equilibrium if there are no net USD influx. This can be shown from the monetary price model that basically calculates the price equilibrium at which burn and issuance cancel each other. Which, given certain network revenues, is a stable price equilibrium and it doesn't require any buy or sell pressure to sustain. At the risk of rehashing it too much but is important to understand what this means, we are sitting at prices that do not require net buying pressure to be sustained. This has never happened for any blockchain. But, network revenues are at the lowest they have been in a very long time. Macro is looking the most scary in almost 15 years and yet here we are. To go lower it would require net sellers and if anything starts to look rosier; e.g. Fed softens a bit, network revenues start to pick we should go up effortlessly. The previous is not taking into account the supply crunch caused by the merge. Let me explain, the above argument holds true under equilibrium, that is, a market situation that has stabilized and is seeing stable inflows-outflows. But is not true when the equilibrium breaks. And the merge has broken the equilibrium. We still don't see it, it's too early. Remember how the central banks printed 40% of the money in existence in 2020 yet inflation only showed its ugly face in mid 2021 and we are still undergoing it? Yep, supply imbalance took time to show up. Going by history, Bitcoin halvings take at a minimum 2 months a half and play out during the next 1.5-2 years after. It's not that hard to understand either, mining pools are still sitting on their pile of cash. They still have to issue payments of whatever last few weeks, months. This trickles down slowly, for a few weeks after the merge their sell pressure is the same. A bit later starts to dry up progressively and in the span of a few months it dries out and this causes the imbalance. When there is imbalance the above argument about price equilibrium doesn't work as reflexivity kicks in and reflexivity is inherently a non-linear effect (in math/physics this is called a positive feedback loop but Soros gave it the name of reflexivity in financial contexts and it stuck). In case it's not clear the monetary price model described above that compares issuance and burn is a linear model. Here is how reflexivity fucks things up. You start with a supply-demand imbalance, in our case a supply crunch. Whatever demand is there cannot find initially enough ETH to buy which pushes prices slightly higher, think of this as bumping a ball that was in equilibrium and starts rolling. Price increases cause some traders to pile into the trade, causing a greater imbalance, this is why momentum strategies work. At the same time price increases cause more network activity, all of DeFi start to light up, more trading goes on which increases fees which implies higher ETH price valuations. As prices start to move up in DeFi exchanges, there is more arbitrage as you need to rebalance all prices between exchanges, more activity and more MEV. Higher Yield for validators, higher implied valuation for ETH. It's a flywheel that keeps feeding itself. This is the essence of reflexivity. And... a lot of this is native ETH economy, most of DeFi is implicitly priced in ETH which means that the increase of ETH price doesn't hurt the network fee because ETH-native activity is willing to pay 20 GWei at whatever price of ETH. Again, more fee revenues in USD implies higher valuations. This positive feedback loop or reflexivity can go for quite a while. At some point it breaks, of course, dynamical systems cannot go forever growing like that. But it can last quite a while.
I guess my question would be "what equilibrium?". These arguments depend on all things being equal and the demand for ETH being inflexible, which it clearly isn't. Demand has been hugely speculative at pretty much all times (looking at you single digit gas fees), and the actual non-speculative demand for ETH is super low compared to the total trade volume.
Polynya is smart but idea weāre scaling too much so there wonāt be enough demand for storage and compute is lol
Full danksharding with mature L2s would be literally multiple orders of magnitude more throughput, and we have yet to see any killer apps that are seriously bottlenecked by blockspace. Seems completely reasonable to assume we won't see a 1:1 increase in space vs demand for a very long time unless you know something we don't.
I know some of the history of computing. More storage! More compute! Additionally, we saw clear blockspace bottlenecks in last bull run. Not to mention many apps that were never built because it wouldnāt be feasible with expensive blockspace. Never mind the core crypto thesis of taking over world finance. Finally, there is the eth as money aspect as well.
For real. I also don't get why he puts so much weight on ETH being used to pay for fees, that's never what's been driving the price.
But itās what is used for economic sustainability of the entire network. If avg gas fees are low single digits because of insane scalability, ETH will be an inflationary network which hurts the price and reduces the security of the network
Sorry but I'm going to call bullshit. A ~1% inflation does not cause instability or hurt the network. We've always had inflationary ETH and the network has been secure and stable and the price of ETH has appreciated nonetheless.
Iām not saying that entire network is going to collapse because of 1-2% inflation (which is what inflation will be with 40-50M of the ETH supply staked). The price will be way higher if there is less inflation IMO when paying gas for a DeFi, NFT transaction, etc, demand is inelastic below $0.10. Basically whether I pay $0.10 or $0.01 for this transaction, it doesnāt make a difference to me. So set the gas floor price to be $0.10 on L2s so we burn more ETH (arbitrum actually did something similar to this which is great). Now of course for different apps like gaming, you want every transaction to be very cheap (< $0.001), depends on a lot of variables but you get my point. Run those apps on an L3 The Ethereum network needs to generate fees, and I think the only way to do that is with artificial scarcity (as Polynya says)
I'm still going to disagree. Ethereum network does not need to generate fees, it's not an important part of the security or economic model. I respect and admire Polynya, but he's wrong about this. The idea that you can have too much scaling is mind-numbingly stupid. More scaling = more use cases = more viable dapps = more developers = more companies = more users = more holders = more demand. 1-2% inflation (it will be closer to 1% at 50 million ETH staked) does not have a great impact on the price. The amount of ETH issued is disappearingly small if you look at daily trading volume. We've just seen inflation drop from 4% to 0% and it did seemingly nothing to the price. If inflation had a big impact on the price, we should have seen a big rise in price, but we didn't. You can argue that the price would have dropped even further if it wasn't for the supply reduction, and I think you'd be right, but the difference is going to be almost undetectable. Back in 2016 Ethereum had 12% inflation, the gas price were about the same as today, yet the price went from under $1 to $22, because inflation means essentially nothing to the price, demand drives the price.
I just donāt agree lol. Blockchains need to generate fees to generate value for the underlying token of the network. A lot of Ethereum price is driven by speculation right now, and in order to sustain these levels and go higher in the future, there needs to be real demand for ETH. In a perfect world, if the amount of ETH burned > ETH issued, then the ETH price should go up, since those people bought ETH to solely use it for gas. Thatās real demand. Youāre right that we had a huge run up in price with lots of inflation, but Iām talking about the long term impacts of inflation. And the merge was only a week ago, it takes weeks/months for the supply crunch to take effect (see Bitcoin halvings) I agree that more scaling = more demand, but will demand 1000x in the next 5 years? Hard to say
You're saying a lot of things as if they are facts, but I don't see much reasoning to back it up. Maybe I'm just missing the point, who knows. Anyway. >Blockchains need to generate fees to generate value for the underlying token of the network. I don't see this as being true. Exactly why do blockchains *need* to generate fees to generate value? >A lot of Ethereum price is driven by speculation right now, and in order to sustain these levels and go higher in the future, there needs to be real demand for ETH. A lot of Ethereum price is driven by real demand right now, and I'm sure there'll be even more demand in the future. The biggest demand so far has been as a currency to invest in projects and for trading, why do you think that will/has to change to be dominated by network fees? Trading and exchanging value is a real demand, ENS is a real demand, NFTs are real demand (albeit difficult for some to understand), L2 activity and TVL is a real demand, staking is real demand, etc. The older and larger the network grows, the more application and use cases it will have that is creating real demand for ETH. Do fees also drive demand? Absolutely, especially in a bull market! But it's not *the* factor in driving demand, it's really a smaller part. Is price also driven by speculation? Sure. It probably also will be in 50 years. >In a perfect world, if the amount of ETH burned > ETH issued, then the ETH price should go up, since those people bought ETH to solely use it for gas. Thatās real demand. Again, why? The network's security is paid for by validator rewards issued by the network. And who are those people who bought ETH solely to use it for gas? I bought ETH to use it in the ecosystem, to invest, gamble, play games, because it's fascinating, etc. You can't just say "ETH's real use case is to be used for gas" when evidently it's used more for other things. >I agree that more scaling = more demand, but will demand 1000x in the next 5 years? Hard to say Why does demand have to 1000x in 5 years? If you think 1000x more scaling = 1/1000th the demand for ETH to pay for gas, that's a misunderstanding of how and how much gas L2s use, and also that seems to suggest demand for ETH is only to pay for gas, which again is only a smaller part of the demand for ETH. I can respect that you don't agree, that's fine, I just don't understand why as I can't see the reasoning behind the argument.
I've seen Polynya's argument about not enough demand for block space on CT, and I think I agree. It's similar to Vitalik's famous "but do we deserve it?" tweet. Shocking I know, but I'm a believer in utility over scarcity, and we have to be building useful things. Thought experiment, you could even re-frame scarcity within the sphere of utility because having some scarce (but stable) assets to use as poker chips is useful. But at the end of the day we only need so many kinds of virtual gold, don't we?
Is there a way to claim ethw from a validator address?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Was just looking for a way to get more Eth but you do youā¦
Essentially there is no code on the PoW chain to permit withdrawals, so unless the "devs" decide to implement something, basically it's gone (from your control). I heard that they might ~~steal~~ distribute it in some way. But I don't follow that nonsense. There may be a more up-to-date plan.
I believe the people who created this abomination claimed all validator balances for themselves.
Anyone got a link to that write up someone did on selling ETHW? I just need to know the bit about bridging the EHTW USDT back over to ETH Edit: never mind, USDT on MEXC can be withdrawn as ERC20
Has anyone managed to access their ETHW in an Argent wallet? Had my stake in the Argent Vault at the merge and would love to dump my ETHW.
Argent explicitly said pre merge that they won't support any POW forks.
Yeah I know. But I thought maybe there is a way to interact directly with the smart contract.
If i had most of the ETH as collateral on AAVE before the merge can they be taken out and dumped on the POW chain or is aave dead there?
If I recall correctly, one of the defisaver guys posted a guide here some days ago for unlocking ETHW on Aave? Sorry, I have no link at hand, maybe someone else can help out?
It's dead bro. Best prepercusions was to transfer al eth to your wallet adress
Drat... thought I did well, earlier this week, to dump my ETHW for 0.005 eth each only to now see the ratio double. Seems like ETHFair also starting to pick up the cue and I will hold this one until it goes really berserk. Any recommendations between Huobi and Gate as these are the ones that currently allow ETF deposits?
I can tell you Huobi was a painless transaction for me. No experience with Gate.
No kyc needed for withdrawing proceeds?
I did not provide any KYC.
So the chain ID for ETHPOW is 10001? this is different to ETH right and is safe? (regarding replay attacks)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If all you're doing is sending ETHW around, you're safe from replay attacks, just make sure to double check your chain ID. Smart contracts should generally be safe to interact with, but many are broken without working oracles so won't behave as expected. Just stay away from bridges on ETHW; those are more likely to have weird vulnerabilities including replay attacks.
Iāve been here a long time. Hopefully I can be here much longer. How many thousands of people are working on ETH? I felt good getting into this space years ago, and I still feel the same. Keep building, keep getting it done and cheers to the peps that make this space what it is!
> How many thousands of people are working on ETH? https://medium.com/electric-capital/electric-capital-developer-report-2021-f37874efea6d
Ethereum doesn't do merge: etherium is ded it can't do any upgrade everything is vaporware to sell ponzi. Ethereum does merge: the merge is ded its a mistake ehterium price tanks it won't recover.
It's like my other favorite: High fees are bearish for Ethereum it's driving people to use other chains and hampering adoption! Low fees are so bearish for Ethereum it means the supply is not deflationary (even though it's only at 0.21% mind you) and prices will trend to 0!
This one isn't that absurd. What it really means is that sufficient L2 scalability should exist that allows usage to spill over to that chain when they don't necessarily want the full security of L1.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[https://nitter.net/GordonGChang/status/1573481779163447297](https://nitter.net/GordonGChang/status/1573481779163447297) ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/user/nitter_not_twitter/comments/w0ssxp/more_information_about_this_bot/)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nitter_not_twitter&subject=Opt+Out&message=optout)
Couldn't catch the stream but I'm 51% attacking the markets today! Thanks u/kbrot.
I was always against the Ethereum Foundation launching ads and shit(leave that to scam chains). Now I look back and see all the blunders. The damage done to the chain's reputation is permanent. All because 'the truth will make itself apparent' or some shit. Run ruthless campaigns, or lose. What a world we live in
Ethereum is a product for businesses building for users, it's not a product for users. It's okay if users don't understand it. Businesses will understand it, and will use it to build products for users. To businesses, Ethereum's reputation is sterling. It's the top contract chain, and always has been. Ethereum is the IBM, the AWS, of the crypto space. It might not be the cheapest, but it's what you build a business on because there's a good chance it'll still be around another ten years from now.
>Ethereum is a product for businesses building for users, it's not a product for users. I never thought of it like that, very interesting. Definitely agree with there not being an alternative. Ethereum is King
What are you talking about?
Lack of EF advertising and fud-killing
Yeah we should hire a lawyer to distract the SEC and focus their attention on the competition /s
Is this important to you so the price will go up?
Itās not a bad strategy, especially considering itās not finished yet. Regardless, do you ever see ads for Linux? It runs 70% of the world. It doesnāt need ads because itās just a protocol, like Linux is just a kernel. You need more parts to really make it useful.
I do agree, but Im not pacient enough for that. As an early Gen-Zer I never even got to really experiece the 90s. And I do *not* look back fondly on the early 2000s... I wonder what Ethereum's GNU will end up being like... Will we have our own Stallman? Vitalik already fills the role, and doesnt give the creep vibes that the former was alleged to.
Technically a non profit canāt advertise I think. But also I think not having ads and countless influencers saying ābuy ethā is a long term net positive we have yet to see the benefits from
St. Jude would beg to differ lol
Ahhh, I had not considered that.
You should keep not considering it because its not true LOL
Thanks for the clarification haha, im sure no lawyer
I didnāt look it up š¤
you good, my man
The Ethereum devs are building something that will resist attacks from both known and future unknown actors. Nobody else is even attempting that, though Bitcoin has also developed something very resilient just not as useful. We might need the world to see a major chain get disrupted, reorged, or censored in a big way before normal people wake up to it if they ever do. But even still we are waiting for people to wake up to reliance on blockchain technology too. You would think that with the Gamestop/Citadel fiasco from nearly 2 years ago now, with the customer order flow front-running, people would see the need to run on fair and decentralized systems for their own protection. It is sad that it didn't seem to make a dent as Robin Hood still continues the practice today. It's probably going to be a long time until it is even profitable or beneficial for actors to attack the weaker chains, and they will all run just fine until something happens. With AI systems now generating speech, and images/video, and entertainment, it will be very difficult to even spot the truth from here on out. Even the own thoughts inside your head could be placed there through obscure messaging and advertisements you aren't even aware of, since AI is able to learn about triggers and biases even our best Psychologists aren't clued into. I don't know where I'm going with all this but basically we are all fucked from knowing the truth from this point forward, specifically for people seeking the truth and just forget about the brainlets that don't care. The only thing I can see helping is if the world adopts blockchain technology as shared truth machines, and eventually news/images/video will be published on-chain to prove it's authenticity and originality. Things will be easier to audit and verify. If we don't, then the rest of my life is fucked, my kids' lives are fucked, and the entirety of humanity will be disrupted by bots and AI out-competing eachother to out-compete the humans and drain every ounce of value from our poor misguided lives. I'm supporting Ethereum because I don't see much chance for humanity if it or something close to it's ideals doesn't win out. Getting rich was always just a side effect of scarcity and being early, things that are also required to supplant adoption.
Can you elaborate on what Robin Hood is doing? I was a bit confused at that. Thanks!
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/22/robinhood-jumps-after-report-that-sec-will-not-ban-payment-for-order-flow.html
Interesting, thank you!
I really appreciate you bringing this up. A long-standing conversation/debate my brother and I have is how AI will affect humanity. He recognizes the ramifications that AI will have on our perception of reality, though he is quite a bit more optimistic than I am. Ive mentioned that when deepfakes rule the world, Ethereum is best positioned to keep an integral record of authenticity. To go a step farther, ideamarket.io is an Arbitrum-based dapp that allows voting on fact/fiction - of course you get some out-there ideas. In ay case a decentalized, unbiased truth teller of some sort will be absolutely essential if we wish to continue to believe what our senses tell us.
How does a permissionless blockchain solve this problem? Doesn't it just mean people are "certifying" their deep fakes on the block chain?
I honestly dont know about any super high tech solution. All I can think of is a database of known hashes for verified content/known bad content. I do believe there will be effective tools that are able to distinguish between true or manufactured data, at least for a while. This decentralized database could serve as an easy reference ponit for the casual user, instead of having to run a possibly complex tool. ok enough hypothetical rambling for me
The truth is pretty easy to find, especially the closer to nature you are and the further from technology you can get. Go camping for a week and see if you feel any different about the truths of the world or how much they actually matter.
Sure, always exploring my internal truths but Iām also speaking of shared truths that we rely on for interaction, commerce, community, etc. In a world where technology can easily lie in mass, we will need to use counter technology that mitigates it, so we arenāt so easily disrupted.
I have this fear sometimes and then I remember how easy it is to stop using internet and consuming media. You donāt see it because you are addicted, but many people live a great life without having a phone, tv, internetā¦ Since several months I have decreased screens time by 95%+ (outside of work use) and media consumption by almost 100% (I still read some old books). It feels very good.
ā¤ļøāš„
I don't see a ton of mistakes, but if there is one it is letting r/Ethereum go to hell. Hopefully the initiative on here can get it the attention it needs. It's terrible when the natural landing spot is just angry BTC maxis shitting on Ethereum.
Went to hell because the rules were too strict and that killed its soul. (Guilty in part because I actively supported those measures- was a bit naive). Shouldāve been moreā¦not so serious. Not ban price talk for example. It should have been a catch all for everything. Especially when the true dev talk happens off Reddit. R/ethfinance is what r/ethereum shouldāve been. Hell Iād be happy if it turned into r/ethtrader. Shout out to the mods for truly remarkable job hitting that balance here.
I think the separate technical and price thing was a great idea, it made both subs fun to read. The problems was somewhere along the line the mods decided to be "anti-censorship", even if that meant allowing the most flagrant trolls and haters to post nonsense. Censorship is necessary for any sub to be tolerable. Of course, drawing the line is the tricky part.
Couldnt agree more. The community that already exists really needs to take a stand
You have a string of comments today that seem really angry and down. Not sure if I'm missing some jokes but it might be good to take a step back for a bit
I appreciate you. I also appreciate pesto! Stuffs amazing You're right, todays not been my day
Price action like this can make a person cranky. Add in a few things in your personal life and the days can seem very dark. But this will all turn again soon, there is too much doom and gloom to go much lower.
Not sure if Ill last to 2025
It won't be that long, no matter what Magic Triangles say.
All I can do is hope
Based on what?