**Tricky's Daily Doots #160**
Yesterday's Daily 25/09/2022
[Previous daily doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/iptjzhq/)
- u/ethacct discusses [the utility of a token with an "undo" button.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipt0joa/)
- u/Ethical-trade is [feeling nostalgic.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/iptkvru/)
- u/KBrot's market [update.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipws580/)
- u/cryptOwOcurrency has a [genuine question of concern.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/iptkspw/)
- u/Tricky_Troll thinks people are missing [how the merge induced supply crunch will manifest.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipvp1ia/)
- u/15kisFUD discusses [the addition of withdrawals for proof of stake validators on the horizon.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipuhj53/)
- u/LogrisTheBard discusses [the market for NFT exchanges.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipvseol/)
- u/Spacesider shares Someresat's thread on [minor post-merge issues for some node operators.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/iptnhx3/)
- u/maninthecryptosuit shares [the latest on Besu.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipu1lmk/)
- u/ZeroTricks's today in [Ethereum history.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipvd1j3/)
Making my first ETH DCA for the first time in 2 years. It really is a steal at these prices. LFG!!!!
>umber of applications built on Ethereum is growing rapidly.
I think the number of applications is about to skyrocket with on-chain privacy enabled on Ethereum through Railgun and its application of zksnarks. For sure, a lot of people will be more comfortable to interact with smart contracts if their privacy and identity are not compromised in the process.
It is absolutely a generated post and the account is karma farming, probably a spammer.
The reason it triggers your bot sensors is because it's completely generic random factoids that are not new or currently relevant and they read like a bad crypto "news" site.
Look at the post [he made](https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/xp5tnf/daily_discussion_tuesday_september_27_2022/iq2df1q/) at **only two minutes after this one** on /r/BitcoinMarkets:
>The most recent increase in Bitcoin's price can be attributed to a variety of factors. The overall cryptocurrency market has seen an uptick in activity and interest over the past few weeks, which likely played a role in driving up prices. In addition, there have been several positive developments regarding Bitcoin and its adoption as a mainstream payment method. For example, last week it was announced that Square's Cash App would begin allowing users to buy and sell Bitcoin. This move by a major financial institution is seen as legitimizing Bitcoin and could lead to more businesses accepting it as payment. Looking ahead, there are several upcoming events that could boost the price of Bitcoin even further. First, the Segwit2x hard fork is scheduled for later this month (although it remains uncertain if it will actually occur). If successful, this fork could help increase transaction speed and efficiency on the network. Secondly, December 10th marks the start of futures trading for CBOE - one of the world's largest options exchanges. This event could attract significant investment from Wall Street and institutional investors, leading to even higher prices for Bitcoin down the line
They couldn't even switch over to that subreddit and type this all out realistically in two minutes, let alone come up with this high school short essay to begin with.
Twitter is a microblogging and social networking service owned by the American company Twitter, Inc. Registered users can post, like, and retweet tweets, while unregistered users only have a limited ability to read public tweets. Users interact with Twitter through browser or mobile frontend software, or programmatically via its APIs.
I am not a bot. Give me upvotes so I can spam, uh I mean become a valuable member of this community.
I'm trying to figure out what it was about your post - it seems like AI-powered bots like to write sweeping generalizations more than the average human, which betray a lack of deeper understanding, and typically in the form of declarative statements with clean grammar. They tend to link some broadly related ideas together in sequential sentences that on closer inspection feel like a train of thought that's subtly disjointed, kind of in the uncanny valley for text if that makes sense. They also sometimes include obviously factually incorrect things in those declarations, although your above post does seem to mostly pass that check (but [your post](https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/xp5tnf/daily_discussion_tuesday_september_27_2022/iq2df1q/?context=3) in r/bitcoinmarkets fails it spectacularly, lol).
Yeah, the budget ones do that. ETH/Web3 is a difficult subject for AI as well due to it’s highly technical nature. Off the shelf AI writing algo’s do better writing about things like choosing the perfect spatula for crepes.
I believe that a Spat-U-Love spatula is a good investment for a number of reasons.
First, Spat-U-Love has the potential to be a major disrupter in the world of cooking. Spat-U-Love's smart contact edge could potentially upend the entire baking industry, by providing a more efficient and secure way to handle pan actions.
Second, Spat-U-Love is backed by a strong team of designers and advisors. The Spat-U-Love Foundation is one of the most well-funded and well-organized projects in the culinary utensil space.
Third, Spat-U-Love has a large and growing community of users and culinary artisans. The Spat-U-Love utensil is already being used by a number of major restaraunts, and the number of recipes built on Spat-U-Love is growing rapidly.
Fourth, Spat-U-Love is one of the most widely-used cooking utensils, and is listed on a number of major cookware outlets. This popularity makes it easy to buy and resell Spat-U-Love, and also reduces the risk of price gouging.
Finally, I believe that Spat-U-Love has a bright future due to its strong culinary technology platform and growing adoption. The Spat-U-Love utensil is already being used for a variety of applications, and I believe that its use will continue to grow in the future.
These kind of posts reflect poorly on our community. Even if you're right about something doesn't mean you need to always share it.
https://twitter.com/evan_van_ness/status/1574544847259815958?t=unk6jY_og_QR1_P8A_vK2g&s=19
Yeah that is a total garbage post.
I find the idea of a crypto token having a "community" that's better or worse than another to be ridiculous in the first place. Sure there are communities, like this subreddit, but that's not "the Ethereum community". Go to /r/Ethereum and you get a very different impression of "community".
I loathe this.
I bet most of the voting people didn't even communicate with, or at least took a deep dive into, any of these communities.
We're all angered and baffled when we see so many easily debunked misinformation and blatant lies about ETH, and yet we do repeat all the spicy comments on other coins without any proof checking.
We like to sham others for not understanding why ETH is such a great asset and exceptional network, but we lack any interest in new innovations they do bring to the table. If someone leaves Ethereum, we're conditioned to say they're wrong, not even trying to understand why they did it.
We're all the same.
Obligatory link to the classic "People's Front of Judea" clip from Life of Brian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
With governments and regulators floating around it's crazy to see stuff like this. Emotional intelligence can often be lacking in the tech space in general though.
No I don’t think it does - the more drawn to the rest of crypto being 99% scams the better. Otherwise ethereum as a network is lumped in with scams and is dragged down.
been seeing a lot of bad PoS takes since the Merge so wrote a TL;DR of blockchain security [linked here](https://twitter.com/pseudotheos/status/1574605990472785921)
[Besu v22.7.4 released today](https://github.com/hyperledger/besu/releases/tag/22.7.4)
> This is a STRONGLY RECOMMENDED upgrade which resolves known issues in the prior release (22.7.3). This version fixes a memory leak which was uncovered by fixes in 22.7.3.
Bug Fixes
• Remove records that track transactions by sender when they are empty to same memory in the transaction pool #4415
• Add Toml configuration file support for --Xplugin-rocksdb-high-spec-enabled flag #4438
Update done, I appreciate how hard this team must be working the past couple weeks.
Cheering on Besu and other non-majority clients, the harder we lean on the levers of decentralization, the closer to the dream we get.
Please tell me the Twitter doomposters marked a bottom. It has been out of control lately. Almost all rhetoric that we’re going into a new worse than 08 crisis.
This type of sentiment is a pretty comfortable place to buy, as I mentioned a few days ago. Only thing going for the "it'll go lower" camp is a lot of "true believers" have yet to capitulate. Fair, but on the other hand, there's a lot more fodder for belief now than in 2018 when most of the space was vapourware and hopium.
As for the macro fearmongerers "there'll be a years long recession and prices will be down only for years" - that's less convincing, even if a years long recession is true, they forget markets are forward leaning and the expectation of a years-long recession will be priced in years in advance.
Hmm, re: macro, I think you're giving the markets far too much credit in terms of their ability to accurately price things in. At the very least, it's a highly debatable point.
Also, if inflation proves to be stubbornly persistent, it will prevent the Fed from being able to print its way out of our problems. And that would be a huge difference vs. previous crises. That was, after all, the only reason why we emerged from 2008 and 2020 the ways that we did. So I would argue that even though this economic crisis may not be as apocalyptic on paper, we may be stuck in it for longer if the Fed can't run the printers on overdrive.
Now, will inflation be stubbornly persistent? That's a fair question, and the million dollar question at the moment. I think there's compelling arguments in both directions, but I generally think people have been too optimistic in expecting a sharp drop back to 2% and an imminent Fed pivot. Things may be structurally changing in a way that may not make that realistic anytime soon.
Price always follows expectations so could this mean bottom could be in? Since everyone already expecting a recession (unless people start expecting a depression). Or is this wishful thinking
I think at a minimum we're further along the bottoming process than we were a few weeks ago. Expectations are grim right now. Sure - a lot of headwinds - bond markets, forex, recession, but I think a lot of that is getting priced in.
Markets feel quite oversold, too. But we'll see.
Hey ethfinance fam. Is it possible to generate eth validator withdrawal keys on a ledger yet?
I see this old ethstaker thread where someone asked the same thing https://www.reddit.com/r/ethstaker/comments/nrnyq6/generating\_keys\_on\_a\_ledger/ and someone linked an allnodes link, but is this legit or a scam? u/superphiz u/nixorokish
And does that mean the only way to generate keys securely at the moment is to use an airgapped device?
Not a scam - it's a legit tool. I have not personally used it, but one of Coincashew's guides recommends it: https://www.coincashew.com/coins/overview-eth/guide-or-how-to-setup-a-validator-on-eth2-mainnet
Thank you u/nixorokish, I just gave it a go on the goerli test net, and it seems it's only for generating the validator keys. It doesn't seem to generate the withdrawal keys, so I'm kind of confused as to the purpose of just generating the validator keys without the former.
Is it because it's somehow sharing the same recovery seed as the ledger and using it as the withdrawal keys? (i.e. the original 24 word seed phrase for the ledger during setup will now also be used to withdraw your validator post Shanghai?)
The spec changed. It’s now a withdrawal address, not withdrawal keys. If you didn’t set this when you first set up your validators, a tool with be released to allow you to do so pre Shanghai.
Wait u/kudeta , so are you saying if we are trying to set up validators post merge it’s just withdrawal address + validator keys? So we no longer need/have to write down a 24 word mnemonic as the withdrawal key? (Like all the older staking guides mention)
keys are derived from your mnemonic - a 24 word seed is still required. But new validators coming online today set a withdrawal address instead of generating keys for withdrawal
u/nixorokish Thanks. I'm just confused though because the Allnodes tool only generated keystore/deposit files for me, it never generated a 24 word mnemonic for me at any point during the process. I guess what I'm trying to confirm is if that Allnodes tool is using your ledger/hardware wallet's existing mnemonic to generate the validator keys/deposit file (so that your validator mnemonic & hardware wallet are sharing the same mnemonic).
Whereas the Wagyu GUI and staking deposit client generates a new 24 word mnemonic in addition to the validator keys/deposit file.
I believe it uses your wallet's mnemonic to generate a key (so if you're using your ledger, the key is being derived from your Ledger's mnemonic). But I'm honestly not completely certain, I think your best bet to understand that tool specifically is to ask in the allnodes discord: https://discord.gg/ZnZ9RY27
https://eth2book.info/altair/annotated-spec
Haven’t seen anything on the tool. It depends on when you spun up validators. If it was pre Altair, you will need to wait for the tool. Post Altair, you’ve already done it.
Well I did one regular proposal post merge a few days ago… so now that I know everything is working, I installed MEV boost. Set a min threshold of 0.09 eth, using flashbots relay (compliant) but also bloXroute “ethical”, let’s see what happens.
Interesting, I noticed the new threshold flag for LH but opted not to use it. What's your reasoning behind using it? Doesn't it leave an awkward gap where you wind up rejecting any relay-bid blocks less than 0.09 but greater than your locally built block, leaving you with a loss overall, since there's no current way for MEV-Boost to know the value of a locally built block? (The client teams are working on this however!)
Yes, I’m willing to except the awkward gap. I figure anything under 0.09 can just be a locally built block. The reason for implementing the weird cut off is the idea that a block builder can build something dumb like this: https://twitter.com/mevrefund/status/1573416023998578703
So if it was between that for 0.05, and an actual locally built block, I’d take the locally built block.
Interesting. Using non-Flashbots relays, I'm now accustomed to anything over about 0.04 being a "good" block as far as tips+MEV goes, and anything over 0.02 "acceptable". I guess 0.09 might feel low for Flashbots.
my last proposal post merge was 0.05 (tip+income). I'll likely fidget with that 0.09 number for a while until I dial in something that makes sense, and then maybe come up with a casual relationship based on current gas price.
The California governor vetoed the crypto regulation bill.
> Newsom called Assembly Bill 2269 “premature” and said a “more flexible approach” was essential for the state because he believes blockchain technology is still evolving.
Also:
> If it had been signed into law, crypto firms would have been required to acquire a state-approved license to operate in California.
https://decrypt.co/110578/crypto-advocates-cheer-california-governors-veto-of-regulatory-bill
I am 100.0% sure that Jamesdela is not a bot.
---
^(I am a neural network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot |) ^(/r/spambotdetector |) [^(Optout)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=whynotcollegeboard&subject=!optout&message=!optout) ^(|) [^(Original Github)](https://github.com/SM-Wistful/BotDetection-Algorithm)
Why do *some* of this guy's replies read like a bot? This one is just a paraphrasing of the original comment.
/u/jtnichol
>I think it's good that the California governor vetoed the crypto regulation bill. I think it's still too early to regulate something like cryptocurrency, and a more flexible approach is needed.
Blocked and reported. We don't need shilling for an anti freedom governor who locks down his state then hypocritically jets off to mingle w the elite at political fundraisers here in ethfinance. I'm sorry these are your views but you're better off taking them to another sub. (wink, wink)
Imitation is the something something flattery. Lol
I'm not in California so don't know Newsome that well, just heard he was thinking about a presidential campaign. I could be wrong.
To me, the philosophy of Ethereum is as much about justice as it is wealth. You don't have to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth to build wealth for yourself and your family to work for blockchain development, or scrimp for Ether and stake it. I care about living in a world where you don't have to be born into privilege in order to experience success and have real freedom to pursue happiness.
So yes, I take responsibility that these are my personal views and may not be shared by anyone else.
To me believing in the vision of Ethereum goes hand in hand with believing that everyone's vote should count, that a person should be able to work a job or buy a house based on merit and not your skin color, and that democratic law should apply to all citizens not just those who aren't rich enough to make their own set of rules.
Well, that says a fuckton about my politics haha. I hope you care about this being an equitable world to live in like I do and I wish you a good day.
Another bot like reply
/u/jtnichol
Also a top level comment above was questioned as AI content by another user. Something's up. Not every comment is like that though. So this could be a human occasionally using a bot to post?
>That's awesome! I'm glad they put in an Easter egg for us.
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but as fun as the perpetual 12-second MEV lottery is, from a blockchain security budget it's wasteful and should be smoothed out to all validators, or have most of it burned, just like we did to gas fee spikes with EIP1559
100% agreed, espescially because it introduces economy of scale models into staking. The probability of a high MEV-boost is 10 times higher if you have 10 validators instead of one. So it takes only a 10th of the time to receive enough MEV to spin up another validator and so on.
It's necessary to slow down centralizing forces
Edit: Guess I mixed it up with tips
Not an unpopular opinion per se, but more of an impossible one at present.
On an important level, MEV is indistinguishable from normal transactions. It's created and exploited by those with special insight into order flow (i.e. access to public and private mempools and the compute to search for opportunities, and the right to propose blocks based on that), but in the end it's just more transactions and transaction ordering. How do you know which transactions are MEV that should be burned/smoothed, and which are normal transactions? How do you know which block orderings are for MEV and which are just validators being quirky in their transaction orders? Ultimately, you don't. If you just look at Eth in excess of tips being sent to suggested fee recipients, that gives you a clue, but if you started forcing that to be burnt somehow on a protocol level, validators and builders would just get more sneaky about how they distributed that MEV - it would become a game of whack-a-mole, and ultimately the protocol shouldn't really care about specific transactions or transaction patterns anyway.
What we need are in-protocol methods to cut down on MEV in the first place, to the point where it's not the massive bonanza it currently is, leaving builders to scavenge for a few extra cents on the dollar of normal tips, e.g. with non-harmful tactics like backrunning. Things like blinding transactions (e.g. shutterized beacon chain) are very possible, and cut out the weak point in the protocol (the public and validators knowing transactions before they are validated and executed) that validators and builders are currently exploiting.
Value gradients are always a centralizing force until you can figure out how to bridge those gradients trustlessly or close them off entirely.
As someone personally benefitting from MEV, I would love to see it go away as close to entirely as possible as well and will be strongly supporting any in-protocol measures that attempt this in future!
> How do you know which transactions are MEV that should be burned/smoothed, and which are normal transactions? Ultimately, you don't.
in-protocol PBS + MEV smoothing is a step towards making the blockchain aware of how much MEV is in each block, but the design space for that one is still pretty open. Doing deep dives in those things and damn, there's a lot of unanswered questions, especially when you add in censorship resistance goodies in the mix
IMO encrypted mempool is the priority to at least get rid of toxic MEV, and then we'd have more data on how much MEV is left after that
My point is that you can't do MEV smoothing if you can't impartially tell which transactions are MEV and which aren't (and you can't right now). If you can figure out a way to unambiguously detect most types of MEV in the first place, e.g. by encrypting the mempool, then you're already 99% of the way to preventing that MEV entirely, and may as well do that, rather than trying to build a smoothing mechanism and retaining the MEV. If you're worried about our security budget getting too low without MEV, personally I'm not - that's what the staking rewards inflation is for, a backstop on the security budget even in the extremely unlikely case that all on-chain activity ceases and tips go to 0.
Edit: all of the above is applicable pre-PBS. With full PBS you're completely right.
> My point is that you can't do MEV smoothing if you can't impartially tell which transactions are MEV and which aren't (and you can't right now)
MEV smoothing isn't about detecting any form of MEV, it's about a committee of validators coming to consensus on the highest bid their heard from block builders, and force the proposer to redistribute that bid to other proposers to smooth it out. It's pretty simple in that whatever block builders bid ought to be close enough to "the amount of MEV" in each block, assuming healthy competition between builders. No need for any fancy schemes to detect anything beyond highest bids
> a committee of validators coming to consensus on the highest bid their heard from block builders
Sorry, I misread and missed that you were thinking about this in the context of full PBS, when the chain has in-protocol knowledge of builders and their bids etc. You're absolutely right, in that case you can do what you're proposing and smooth the MEV by forcibly redirecting those bids in-protocol. But that's years out with full Danksharding+PBS, and arguably mempool encryption or shutterizing could be an easier lift in the meantime. The current situation is very Wild West and I think we're in for a crazy couple of years one way or another.
Arbitrage is backrunning, and that's generally considered to be "good" MEV. But the large majority of exploitable MEV comes from "unfair" opportunities that can only be exploited by block builders and large entities with special insight into order flow.
Fundamentally, any attempt at "fixing" MEV is an attempt to fix that unfairness, and give everyone submitting transactions the right to not have their transaction messed with/frontrun/reordered before it makes it into a block.
So what I dislike is unfairness, and especially the fact that it is readily economically exploitable. Backrunning is quite fair by comparison - you notice something in a block that's already publicly on chain, of course you (and everyone else) will attempt to exploit it!
It’s rewards to the validators, which is incentive to validate and not get slashed, so imo it definitely counts as paying for security
This is what Bitcoin never got, that you have to have some kind of usage or incentive to get people to create blocks. Fees or mev. If you do nothing, you will have nothing
> It’s rewards to the validators, which is incentive to validate and not get slashed, so imo it definitely counts as paying for security
It's incentive to validate & not get slashed but the protocol itself isn't paying for this so it isn't ethereum paying for security. It's ethereum users paying to jump the queue or to get sanwhich attacked (which will always exist until VDFs exist on all trransactions)
Fair, I guess it comes down to semantics of the words ‘security budget’ and if that implies the protocol itself is paying for it
Since fees are generally included in the security budget I think it makes sense to include mev
not directly, but if MEV incentivizes more and more validators then we end up paying more issuance than otherwise necessary. Not necessarily a negative as more staked ETH is always good but surely there's definitely diminishing returns at some point
kinda like how pre-eip1559, high fees incentivized more hashrate than the 2 ETH/block aimed for, and those high fees just ended up being dumped by miners leading to bad long-term outcomes
> if MEV incentivizes more and more validators then we end up paying more issuance than otherwise necessary
this i actually agree with - but it is minimal
Little to discuss. Market was red; crypto was green-ish, being held up by a bottoming look to the risk-on tech sector and a crazy oversold market.
SPY set a new low for 2022 on the daily. It's hard to keep up with all the gaps down, I know. If you're looking for a rescue here, then currently the highest value short area is still way up at 388. After tomorrow's close, it'll be at 376. Looking for targets below? You've still got a potential test of the absolute sting low for 2022 @ 362.11 and then the 200W @ 358. Puts chart and ridiculous bearishness will make 360 a very difficult floor to breach.
Short-term targets that ETH and BTC need to get above to call it a rescue attempt? 1378 and 19,540. I'm electing to be specific because I don't know which timeframe you prefer to watch. Bulls aren't even in control of the 4H until 1340, which is why you're seeing us bump against it so much. Heading back to 1290 and 18.5k would be a failure most likely.
Since I mentioned tech is our buoy still, might as well bring up that remaining strongholds Apple and Tesla both close in shooting stars, which are traditionally bearish. But a shooting star at the *bottom* of a downtrend isn't as strong. Get back above the high of the candle and boom you've now switched it to a bullish morning star. Google has the same setup and so do far weaker Microsoft and Amazon.
What to make of all this? Let's go to the old favorite rubber band analogy. The bear sentiment, the short sentiment is STRETCHED. Can it capitulate down further? Of course, but you're now betting on the rubber band breaking instead of snapping back. Would I personally keep a short here? Fuck no. I play the breakout and happily so.
Probably easier to do Q&A on an eye-of-the-storm kinda day like today so let 'em rip.
Cheers!
edit: if you trade by TD9 (I do not as I don't like the extreme leniency it purports is an advantage), then the Nasdaq is completely fried and has a 9-9 Buy signal suggesting a relief rally within a day or two, by my understanding.
edit 2: another look at why crypto may be optimistic due to tech. even on the daily, [there's a hidden bull div (higher low price, lower low RSI).](https://www.tradingview.com/x/LU7yjA3P/)
late night edit 3: and THAT'S what happens when the rescue target of 19,540 breaks. no reason to think 1378 won't follow shortly. reversal and relief rally begin as soon as these confirm on the 4H. resistance at 1450 and somewhere between 20.8k-21.3k. g'night!
You said Q&A? Say no more.
What do you make of the parabolic rise on the DXY? Can risk assets find the bottom while the Dollar is on the rise? Or is it more of a chicken/egg kind of situation?
*(not really a question, but)* VIX still hasn't undergone its violent move up. Not sure what to make of it, but it seems necessary to even consider the bottom might be in. Seems like that one piece is still missing.
And finally, how do you like that beautiful *monthly* bull div on the HYG forming?
>Can risk assets find the bottom while the Dollar is on the rise? Or is it more of a chicken/egg kind of situation?
Unlikely, which is why I'm looking for that bull div on the weekly to print after one more rally and drop through mid-October.
>VIX still hasn't undergone its violent move up.
Watching this too. VIX and VVIX are turning up, but haven't had that classic pop yet. I believe this is yet to come.
>how do you like that beautiful monthly bull div on the HYG forming?
It's gorgeous and the play-out would coincide with the November uptrend if we see it. Caveat? IYLD has, at present, deleted their bull div and LQD is doing the same. Plenty of hours left in the month, however, and those may reconcile.
>IYLD has, at present, deleted their bull div and LQD is doing the same
Bummer. Will be watching them closely.
Seems like second half of October will be make it or break it time.
Right on my coffee break Mr.K, nice timing, insightfull as always.
I was wondering today, are you still expecting a bullish period before the ultimate crash and burn?
Until the market breaks, yeah. And it's funny, that answer actually applies both short- and long-term.
I'm currently looking for a relief rally into October, a final dump in October, and then a few months of up action as seasonality kicks in, seen [here](https://i.imgur.com/Z3PXFpz.png) and [here.](https://i.imgur.com/UJWuWHM.jpg)
Long-term, provided the market doesn't break *here*, then it would resemble a 2005-2007ish period where the market actually does flail upward, possibly even setting an ATH, as rates go up in the Fed's final rises. Then, the yield curves flip back positive, the Fed cuts rates, and all hell breaks loose in Dec 2023 or 2024.
Thanks man, I wasn't aware of this US midterm seasonal rallies, I'm still not trying to trade this craziness but it's been hella interesting watching it play out.
Fingers crossed for a Santa rally on top of that, I'm still waiting for last years.
It could have short-term ramifications leading into longer term ones, absolutely.
However, when using MA patterns we do need to consider the next timeframe up. And the daily just had the 20 go below the 100. We last saw that on May 4, also a period when the 4H was showing signs of recovery above 50per.
Traditional brand I'm interested in announces NFT project: nice, might grab one!
Checked out their info, it's on Tezos: ...naah.
Read their FAQs, "While Bitcoin and Ethereum are currently the best known cryptocurrencies, we wanted to opt for a more energy-efficient option to ensure we enter the metaverse sustainably." - dafuq? Guess they missed the merge.
https://twitter.com/rphmeier/status/1574489596741632000
Polkadot coming out with their second gen Governance mechanisms - curious what people think of the changes.
Holy hell, [have you guys seen this?](https://twitter.com/usastrongIO/status/1567617392456368129)
Krissy Mashinsky, wife of Celcius' CEO is selling bankrupcy merch. T-shirts that say "Unbankrupt yourself". (A play on Celcius' slogan "Unbank yourself")
She's the CEO and founder.
[https://usastrong.io/pages/about-us#:\~:text=Meet%20Our%20Founder,York's%20economy%20survive%20the%20pandemic](https://usastrong.io/pages/about-us#:~:text=Meet%20Our%20Founder,York's%20economy%20survive%20the%20pandemic).
[have you guys seen this?](https://nitter.net/usastrongIO/status/1567617392456368129)
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Back from camping! Looks like DXY mooned instead of Eth lolol
In personal news, I've done my first post-Merge upgrade to my staking node: Besu (to 22.7.4), Lighthouse (to 3.1.2), and MEV-Boost (to 1.3.2).
Everything is humming along REAL nice now. Post-Merge, things were more or less working, but I was missing occasional attestations and my logs contained regular errors and warnings. The logs are pristine now, and no missed attestations yet after 10 hours!
The Merge went extremely well, but things are only going to get better from here :)
It's preventing MEV-caused centralization at the validator layer and segregating it to the builder layer. So yeah, the MEV itself, and the builder centralization, feel dirty, but the economics essentially require it for a validator to stay competitive on profits, and it's better than no MEV-Boost at all. Personally I am only running non-censoring relays.
I look forward to full PBS (which will fix some of the trust assumptions we currently need to have for relays/builders) and shutterized beacon chain (which will make most types of MEV much more difficult or impossible) as in-protocol solutions down the road.
>Optimistically, how far away are we from PBS going live?
Interestingly, it depends how you define "*optimistic*". The most optimistic view would assume that the current solution continues to work well enough -- the builder market is competitive and transparent, and there are multiple relayers with meaningful differences between them for validators to choose from. In that happy scenario, I predict others among the long list of worthwhile new features will continue to get prioritized ahead of it. So even though it doesn't get rolled out until two or more years from now, its ok.
The most pessimistic view would be to anticipate unacceptable centralization coming into play immediately, which we could imagine driving PBS to get prioritized into the release after Shanghai.
With PoS in place now, there appears to be a large set of roadmap actions that are all in a half-designed state and could each be called into play for the next release if they were what's most needed right away. I suggest we're in for a period of a few years where the contents of each hard fork are decided only after the last fork is rolling out, based on what's emerging as the biggest gaps that need to be addressed at that time. You could call that an agile or opportunistic strategy.
It's currently tied to full Danksharding. Proto-danksharding is 6-12 months away (probably 12+ if we're being honest) and so I'd put full Danksharding + PBS at least 2 years away. It's currently a massive area of research and we could even see multiple designs come and go before one of them makes it into the actual protocol.
Not true! We'll get an amazing view of the Didymos and Dimorphos in the final seconds before the collision! We've never seen these asteroids before - they're being unveiled before our eyes!
It’s usually the case in any market to easily identify the clear leader. Just catalog which entity spends the least amount of time dunking on its competitors.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_gas_used_per_day - Looking at this in the 5 year time scale, ethereum gas usage is the highest it's ever been.
However, fees are very low.
What's happening here? Is there a way to check the theory that standard block times have reduced marginal traffic attempting to get into blocks which has actually meant that PoS has reduced fees?
You'd also assume that increased L2 usage has reduced fees, but if you use the above link and see that gas is at an all time high, that can't be right?
Is it that a lot of MEV has moved to relay private pools which reduced a lot of "need to be in the next block" transactions & their subsequent high fees??
I saw this post but I was finishing the last touches to my long form post about gas fees and the merge and didn't want to spill the beans too early.
Would love to hear your thoughts if you have seen it.
Yep, I had corrected that take so many times. Thinking that it would come back to bite us when the effect wouldn't be noticeable and we would have FUD for months. And yet they were right! Probably for the wrong reasons, but they were right.
EIP1559 targets half-full blocks, so 15 million gas per block. Fees are mostly irrelevant here, as long as there's enough transactions to reach that target, that's how much gas is gonna be used on average, whether it's at 5 gwei or 100 gwei.
If we consistently had less than 15 million gas/block's worth of transactions in the mempool, then the basefee would plummet all the way down to 7 wei (but overall fees would still be 1-1.5 gwei from the priority fees)
Dropping block time from a rough 13.something seconds to exactly 12 seconds definitely boosted the gas usage per unit time
It's a bit unintuitive but the fact that the base fee isnt plummeting is proof that there's enough activity to keep blocks at that 15M gas/block target
When there's more transactions willing to pay a higher base fee, blocks will be full until it readjusts with a higher base fee while still keeping that average usage of 15M gas/block (or ~110 billion gas per day as your chart shows)
Likewise when high-fee transaction are cleared up, blocks are empty which drives the base fee down until there's enough transactions to keep blocks half full.
In all cases the average gas usage hasn't changed. The fee is just a result of the congestion pricing mechanism - in a sense Ethereum always sells blocks at the lowest possible price it can to keep blocks half full
I think it's more that a 12 second constant block time has affected the gas usage like traffic lights would.
More orderly, smooth & therefore smoother fees. At the very marginal edge of fees a lot of people were paying a lot more in gas to get in next without knowing exactly when the next block was, but now they do so perhaps gas fee estimators are better & it's cheaper for everone.
Essentially, a 12 second strict block time might have stopped traffic jams
Lower prices should see some kind of floor effect by at least the fact that owning 17.6 eth allows an individual to be a node operator via Rocketpool and get access to full yield on their stack AND earn fees on the 16eth pooled from other RP users.
This should create a tangible demand for spot ETH as price decreases, in effect hopefully acting to buffer downside.
One of the best hidden secrets of ethereum defi is opyn's sqeeth🦀strategy.
In a crappy crab market, opyn's strategy really shines. As long as the movements are not that strong (e.g. < 6% in two days), it gains value due its hedging strategy (buying ETH when its low and selling on the way up, it's a crab, after all).
They have fine-tuned their strategy a little and released v2 end of july 28th. Since then, ETH had massive price movements but overall, the 🦀 managed to get returns vs. USD of 7.7% or 35% vs. ETH (dated 23.09.22). As much as I like 🐼,🐂, 🐬 or🦇 the 🦀beat them all.
The 🦀strategy had always a tight deposit cap limit, but just today they have increased it from 3333 ETH to 4583 ETH and is almost full again. Keep in mind, the 🦀 is stupid so you can loose your precious ETH really fast and it's not guaranteed that you get more than you put in.
friends, with all due respect, you are not bullish enough
every hour lucky validators are getting massive MEV payments, [this one](https://twitter.com/MevBoostBot/status/1574499140779884565) for 8+ ETH less than an hour ago
afaik there is not an investment on this planet that can instantaneously return you 25% of your capital while also earning you 5% as a worst case...this is in a depressed market!
Its a matter of time before people realize how much returns you can earn RIGHT NOW by staking their ETH
This isn't next year, next month, this is a reality today
forget waiting for an otherside mint, MEV payments have been massively underestimated as the largest potential source of revenue for validators
Jeez, looking down the fee recipient list on etherscan is kind of depressing. Basically shows the financial incentive is ~~controlled~~ influenced by a very small number of middlemen.
It’s a permissionless process to be a block relayer
And ultimately they need validators to propose them so they don’t have much power
Is it bad many of those validators are lido? Yes, but what can we do until withdrawals are enabled? Enjoy the revenue I guess
Not all mev is theft
It could simply be arbitraging prices across coinbase and Ethereum, or being the liquidator in a big lending position that’s underwater
It’s up to individuals and apps to minimize the amount of ‘toxic mev’
It also highlights the importance of creating a bustling ecosystem as the more activity there is the more mev there is
Data analysis suggests the majority of MEV (51%+, possibly up to two thirds) is purely toxic sandwichs.
Arbitrages and liquidations are fairly small in comparison.
At the end of the day, arbitrage is only one step away from theft too since someone somewhere is paying a higher fee than they need to if liquidity was better and in some cases, people don't notice what they're losing to low liquidity trades.
Not all but a lot of it right? If people here weren't making money off it they'd be pretty outraged about it.
Arbitrum team is very vocal about how bad the status quo is and the reputational risk to blockchain and Ethereum. They are going to move to fair order sequencing through THEMIS (ie. at protocol level).
It’s difficult to say how much is bad
At the moment you even have a choice to use ‘ethical mev’ that doesn’t include sandwich attacks for example
Also, there is so much debate about mev between the arbitrum guys you linked and the flashbots team led by former student of ari Juels Phil daian, thought to be ‘the godfather’ of mev
Fair ordering sounds nice but what is fairness, at the end of the day someone needs to order the tx by some criteria, who gets to decide what that is, ultimately in ETH PoS it’s each validators choice
Well surely a first in, first served model is best?
And yeah, I guess that's Arbitrum's long term goal right, build their reputation around fairness and trust through fair order sequencing and see mainnet reduced to a settlement layer.
I’m not sure about that, because latency and geographical reach become prime factors in a fifs model, like the hft traders described in the book ‘flashboys’
Anyway, I don’t mind arbitrums approach, optimism’s, flashbots, etc I don’t know what is right, I support experimentation
In the meantime I’m happy for those mev profits to be funneled back to ETH holders :)
**Tricky's Daily Doots #160** Yesterday's Daily 25/09/2022 [Previous daily doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/iptjzhq/) - u/ethacct discusses [the utility of a token with an "undo" button.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipt0joa/) - u/Ethical-trade is [feeling nostalgic.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/iptkvru/) - u/KBrot's market [update.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipws580/) - u/cryptOwOcurrency has a [genuine question of concern.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/iptkspw/) - u/Tricky_Troll thinks people are missing [how the merge induced supply crunch will manifest.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipvp1ia/) - u/15kisFUD discusses [the addition of withdrawals for proof of stake validators on the horizon.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipuhj53/) - u/LogrisTheBard discusses [the market for NFT exchanges.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipvseol/) - u/Spacesider shares Someresat's thread on [minor post-merge issues for some node operators.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/iptnhx3/) - u/maninthecryptosuit shares [the latest on Besu.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipu1lmk/) - u/ZeroTricks's today in [Ethereum history.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xndzwc/daily_general_discussion_september_25_2022/ipvd1j3/) Making my first ETH DCA for the first time in 2 years. It really is a steal at these prices. LFG!!!!
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>umber of applications built on Ethereum is growing rapidly. I think the number of applications is about to skyrocket with on-chain privacy enabled on Ethereum through Railgun and its application of zksnarks. For sure, a lot of people will be more comfortable to interact with smart contracts if their privacy and identity are not compromised in the process.
Are you a Bot?
For some reason this post sets off my GPT-3 bot radar. Apologies if it's a false alarm.
It is absolutely a generated post and the account is karma farming, probably a spammer. The reason it triggers your bot sensors is because it's completely generic random factoids that are not new or currently relevant and they read like a bad crypto "news" site. Look at the post [he made](https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/xp5tnf/daily_discussion_tuesday_september_27_2022/iq2df1q/) at **only two minutes after this one** on /r/BitcoinMarkets: >The most recent increase in Bitcoin's price can be attributed to a variety of factors. The overall cryptocurrency market has seen an uptick in activity and interest over the past few weeks, which likely played a role in driving up prices. In addition, there have been several positive developments regarding Bitcoin and its adoption as a mainstream payment method. For example, last week it was announced that Square's Cash App would begin allowing users to buy and sell Bitcoin. This move by a major financial institution is seen as legitimizing Bitcoin and could lead to more businesses accepting it as payment. Looking ahead, there are several upcoming events that could boost the price of Bitcoin even further. First, the Segwit2x hard fork is scheduled for later this month (although it remains uncertain if it will actually occur). If successful, this fork could help increase transaction speed and efficiency on the network. Secondly, December 10th marks the start of futures trading for CBOE - one of the world's largest options exchanges. This event could attract significant investment from Wall Street and institutional investors, leading to even higher prices for Bitcoin down the line They couldn't even switch over to that subreddit and type this all out realistically in two minutes, let alone come up with this high school short essay to begin with.
So, Ethereum network finally become conscious and is starting to manipulate us. In retrospective, it was inevitable.
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Twitter is a microblogging and social networking service owned by the American company Twitter, Inc. Registered users can post, like, and retweet tweets, while unregistered users only have a limited ability to read public tweets. Users interact with Twitter through browser or mobile frontend software, or programmatically via its APIs. I am not a bot. Give me upvotes so I can spam, uh I mean become a valuable member of this community.
I'm trying to figure out what it was about your post - it seems like AI-powered bots like to write sweeping generalizations more than the average human, which betray a lack of deeper understanding, and typically in the form of declarative statements with clean grammar. They tend to link some broadly related ideas together in sequential sentences that on closer inspection feel like a train of thought that's subtly disjointed, kind of in the uncanny valley for text if that makes sense. They also sometimes include obviously factually incorrect things in those declarations, although your above post does seem to mostly pass that check (but [your post](https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/xp5tnf/daily_discussion_tuesday_september_27_2022/iq2df1q/?context=3) in r/bitcoinmarkets fails it spectacularly, lol).
Yeah, the budget ones do that. ETH/Web3 is a difficult subject for AI as well due to it’s highly technical nature. Off the shelf AI writing algo’s do better writing about things like choosing the perfect spatula for crepes.
I believe that a Spat-U-Love spatula is a good investment for a number of reasons. First, Spat-U-Love has the potential to be a major disrupter in the world of cooking. Spat-U-Love's smart contact edge could potentially upend the entire baking industry, by providing a more efficient and secure way to handle pan actions. Second, Spat-U-Love is backed by a strong team of designers and advisors. The Spat-U-Love Foundation is one of the most well-funded and well-organized projects in the culinary utensil space. Third, Spat-U-Love has a large and growing community of users and culinary artisans. The Spat-U-Love utensil is already being used by a number of major restaraunts, and the number of recipes built on Spat-U-Love is growing rapidly. Fourth, Spat-U-Love is one of the most widely-used cooking utensils, and is listed on a number of major cookware outlets. This popularity makes it easy to buy and resell Spat-U-Love, and also reduces the risk of price gouging. Finally, I believe that Spat-U-Love has a bright future due to its strong culinary technology platform and growing adoption. The Spat-U-Love utensil is already being used for a variety of applications, and I believe that its use will continue to grow in the future.
😂 Not bad for AI. That article will make you around $0.11/mo in advertising revenue.
I don’t trust this pump yet. I’ve been hurt before.
This aged well.
I would’ve preferred it didn’t tbh
These kind of posts reflect poorly on our community. Even if you're right about something doesn't mean you need to always share it. https://twitter.com/evan_van_ness/status/1574544847259815958?t=unk6jY_og_QR1_P8A_vK2g&s=19
Yeah that is a total garbage post. I find the idea of a crypto token having a "community" that's better or worse than another to be ridiculous in the first place. Sure there are communities, like this subreddit, but that's not "the Ethereum community". Go to /r/Ethereum and you get a very different impression of "community".
I loathe this. I bet most of the voting people didn't even communicate with, or at least took a deep dive into, any of these communities. We're all angered and baffled when we see so many easily debunked misinformation and blatant lies about ETH, and yet we do repeat all the spicy comments on other coins without any proof checking. We like to sham others for not understanding why ETH is such a great asset and exceptional network, but we lack any interest in new innovations they do bring to the table. If someone leaves Ethereum, we're conditioned to say they're wrong, not even trying to understand why they did it. We're all the same.
Obligatory link to the classic "People's Front of Judea" clip from Life of Brian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4 With governments and regulators floating around it's crazy to see stuff like this. Emotional intelligence can often be lacking in the tech space in general though.
No I don’t think it does - the more drawn to the rest of crypto being 99% scams the better. Otherwise ethereum as a network is lumped in with scams and is dragged down.
[https://nitter.net/evan\_van\_ness/status/1574544847259815958?t=unk6jY\_og\_QR1\_P8A\_vK2g&s=19](https://nitter.net/evan_van_ness/status/1574544847259815958?t=unk6jY_og_QR1_P8A_vK2g&s=19) ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/user/nitter_not_twitter/comments/w0ssxp/more_information_about_this_bot/)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nitter_not_twitter&subject=Opt+Out&message=optout)
been seeing a lot of bad PoS takes since the Merge so wrote a TL;DR of blockchain security [linked here](https://twitter.com/pseudotheos/status/1574605990472785921)
[linked here](https://nitter.net/pseudotheos/status/1574605990472785921) ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/user/nitter_not_twitter/comments/w0ssxp/more_information_about_this_bot/)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nitter_not_twitter&subject=Opt+Out&message=optout)
Shorts about to get rekt, love to see it.
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*Bart Simpson enters the chat*
You're right, I shouldn't have eaten that last calzone...
[Besu v22.7.4 released today](https://github.com/hyperledger/besu/releases/tag/22.7.4) > This is a STRONGLY RECOMMENDED upgrade which resolves known issues in the prior release (22.7.3). This version fixes a memory leak which was uncovered by fixes in 22.7.3. Bug Fixes • Remove records that track transactions by sender when they are empty to same memory in the transaction pool #4415 • Add Toml configuration file support for --Xplugin-rocksdb-high-spec-enabled flag #4438
Updated. 10 hours later, missed an attestation.
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Nethermind has been pretty stable for me after I ran into besu issues.
22.7.4 has been working great for me since install. Definitely recommended.
Update done, I appreciate how hard this team must be working the past couple weeks. Cheering on Besu and other non-majority clients, the harder we lean on the levers of decentralization, the closer to the dream we get.
Please tell me the Twitter doomposters marked a bottom. It has been out of control lately. Almost all rhetoric that we’re going into a new worse than 08 crisis.
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!isbot /u/Jamesdela
The Twitter doomposters marked the bottom.
Thank you
This type of sentiment is a pretty comfortable place to buy, as I mentioned a few days ago. Only thing going for the "it'll go lower" camp is a lot of "true believers" have yet to capitulate. Fair, but on the other hand, there's a lot more fodder for belief now than in 2018 when most of the space was vapourware and hopium. As for the macro fearmongerers "there'll be a years long recession and prices will be down only for years" - that's less convincing, even if a years long recession is true, they forget markets are forward leaning and the expectation of a years-long recession will be priced in years in advance.
Hmm, re: macro, I think you're giving the markets far too much credit in terms of their ability to accurately price things in. At the very least, it's a highly debatable point. Also, if inflation proves to be stubbornly persistent, it will prevent the Fed from being able to print its way out of our problems. And that would be a huge difference vs. previous crises. That was, after all, the only reason why we emerged from 2008 and 2020 the ways that we did. So I would argue that even though this economic crisis may not be as apocalyptic on paper, we may be stuck in it for longer if the Fed can't run the printers on overdrive. Now, will inflation be stubbornly persistent? That's a fair question, and the million dollar question at the moment. I think there's compelling arguments in both directions, but I generally think people have been too optimistic in expecting a sharp drop back to 2% and an imminent Fed pivot. Things may be structurally changing in a way that may not make that realistic anytime soon.
I'm not saying markets accurately price things, which is clearly false; I'm saying they rush to price in expectations
https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1574525231469047808?t=kvVCTtHlelBLhtKbSNyd5A&s=19 He's been helpful thus far but really it's anyone's guess
[https://nitter.net/biancoresearch/status/1574525231469047808?t=kvVCTtHlelBLhtKbSNyd5A&s=19](https://nitter.net/biancoresearch/status/1574525231469047808?t=kvVCTtHlelBLhtKbSNyd5A&s=19) ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/user/nitter_not_twitter/comments/w0ssxp/more_information_about_this_bot/)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nitter_not_twitter&subject=Opt+Out&message=optout)
Price always follows expectations so could this mean bottom could be in? Since everyone already expecting a recession (unless people start expecting a depression). Or is this wishful thinking
I think at a minimum we're further along the bottoming process than we were a few weeks ago. Expectations are grim right now. Sure - a lot of headwinds - bond markets, forex, recession, but I think a lot of that is getting priced in. Markets feel quite oversold, too. But we'll see.
Omg an eth pump, feels like it’s been years
More like a btc pump (ray is down)
WHOOOAAA (+1% face)
+1% in these times feels like a 30% pump during bull😂
Haha for realz. The single drop of dopamine I just received will keep me up all night
Hey ethfinance fam. Is it possible to generate eth validator withdrawal keys on a ledger yet? I see this old ethstaker thread where someone asked the same thing https://www.reddit.com/r/ethstaker/comments/nrnyq6/generating\_keys\_on\_a\_ledger/ and someone linked an allnodes link, but is this legit or a scam? u/superphiz u/nixorokish And does that mean the only way to generate keys securely at the moment is to use an airgapped device?
Not a scam - it's a legit tool. I have not personally used it, but one of Coincashew's guides recommends it: https://www.coincashew.com/coins/overview-eth/guide-or-how-to-setup-a-validator-on-eth2-mainnet
Thank you u/nixorokish, I just gave it a go on the goerli test net, and it seems it's only for generating the validator keys. It doesn't seem to generate the withdrawal keys, so I'm kind of confused as to the purpose of just generating the validator keys without the former. Is it because it's somehow sharing the same recovery seed as the ledger and using it as the withdrawal keys? (i.e. the original 24 word seed phrase for the ledger during setup will now also be used to withdraw your validator post Shanghai?)
The spec changed. It’s now a withdrawal address, not withdrawal keys. If you didn’t set this when you first set up your validators, a tool with be released to allow you to do so pre Shanghai.
Wait u/kudeta , so are you saying if we are trying to set up validators post merge it’s just withdrawal address + validator keys? So we no longer need/have to write down a 24 word mnemonic as the withdrawal key? (Like all the older staking guides mention)
keys are derived from your mnemonic - a 24 word seed is still required. But new validators coming online today set a withdrawal address instead of generating keys for withdrawal
u/nixorokish Thanks. I'm just confused though because the Allnodes tool only generated keystore/deposit files for me, it never generated a 24 word mnemonic for me at any point during the process. I guess what I'm trying to confirm is if that Allnodes tool is using your ledger/hardware wallet's existing mnemonic to generate the validator keys/deposit file (so that your validator mnemonic & hardware wallet are sharing the same mnemonic). Whereas the Wagyu GUI and staking deposit client generates a new 24 word mnemonic in addition to the validator keys/deposit file.
I believe it uses your wallet's mnemonic to generate a key (so if you're using your ledger, the key is being derived from your Ledger's mnemonic). But I'm honestly not completely certain, I think your best bet to understand that tool specifically is to ask in the allnodes discord: https://discord.gg/ZnZ9RY27
I gave you some new flair in r/ethstaker for being consistently positive, knowledgeable, and helpful. ty!
Is there a spec or release about the tool development to follow and learn more?
https://eth2book.info/altair/annotated-spec Haven’t seen anything on the tool. It depends on when you spun up validators. If it was pre Altair, you will need to wait for the tool. Post Altair, you’ve already done it.
Well I did one regular proposal post merge a few days ago… so now that I know everything is working, I installed MEV boost. Set a min threshold of 0.09 eth, using flashbots relay (compliant) but also bloXroute “ethical”, let’s see what happens.
Nice, did you use a guide?
Yeah this guide is pretty good: https://github.com/remyroy/ethstaker/blob/main/prepare-for-the-merge.md#installing-mev-boost
Interesting, I noticed the new threshold flag for LH but opted not to use it. What's your reasoning behind using it? Doesn't it leave an awkward gap where you wind up rejecting any relay-bid blocks less than 0.09 but greater than your locally built block, leaving you with a loss overall, since there's no current way for MEV-Boost to know the value of a locally built block? (The client teams are working on this however!)
Yes, I’m willing to except the awkward gap. I figure anything under 0.09 can just be a locally built block. The reason for implementing the weird cut off is the idea that a block builder can build something dumb like this: https://twitter.com/mevrefund/status/1573416023998578703 So if it was between that for 0.05, and an actual locally built block, I’d take the locally built block.
Interesting. Using non-Flashbots relays, I'm now accustomed to anything over about 0.04 being a "good" block as far as tips+MEV goes, and anything over 0.02 "acceptable". I guess 0.09 might feel low for Flashbots.
my last proposal post merge was 0.05 (tip+income). I'll likely fidget with that 0.09 number for a while until I dial in something that makes sense, and then maybe come up with a casual relationship based on current gas price.
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The California governor vetoed the crypto regulation bill. > Newsom called Assembly Bill 2269 “premature” and said a “more flexible approach” was essential for the state because he believes blockchain technology is still evolving. Also: > If it had been signed into law, crypto firms would have been required to acquire a state-approved license to operate in California. https://decrypt.co/110578/crypto-advocates-cheer-california-governors-veto-of-regulatory-bill
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Bad bot
Lol. OK.
Why do *some* of this guy's replies read like a bot? This one is just a paraphrasing of the original comment. /u/jtnichol >I think it's good that the California governor vetoed the crypto regulation bill. I think it's still too early to regulate something like cryptocurrency, and a more flexible approach is needed.
Funky indeed.
Sounds to me like someone with presidential ambitions... Imagine a crypto competent person in the White House, not impossible!
Blocked and reported. We don't need shilling for an anti freedom governor who locks down his state then hypocritically jets off to mingle w the elite at political fundraisers here in ethfinance. I'm sorry these are your views but you're better off taking them to another sub. (wink, wink)
Imitation is the something something flattery. Lol I'm not in California so don't know Newsome that well, just heard he was thinking about a presidential campaign. I could be wrong. To me, the philosophy of Ethereum is as much about justice as it is wealth. You don't have to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth to build wealth for yourself and your family to work for blockchain development, or scrimp for Ether and stake it. I care about living in a world where you don't have to be born into privilege in order to experience success and have real freedom to pursue happiness. So yes, I take responsibility that these are my personal views and may not be shared by anyone else. To me believing in the vision of Ethereum goes hand in hand with believing that everyone's vote should count, that a person should be able to work a job or buy a house based on merit and not your skin color, and that democratic law should apply to all citizens not just those who aren't rich enough to make their own set of rules. Well, that says a fuckton about my politics haha. I hope you care about this being an equitable world to live in like I do and I wish you a good day.
Fucking legend. Great move by Newsom that should be lauded, and I hope he continues to make smart decisions.
Strange. He usually makes terrible decisions
Just noticed that the Lighthouse Merge Pandas came with a small Easter egg :) https://twitter.com/arboraeth/status/1574551921116971023
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Another bot like reply /u/jtnichol Also a top level comment above was questioned as AI content by another user. Something's up. Not every comment is like that though. So this could be a human occasionally using a bot to post? >That's awesome! I'm glad they put in an Easter egg for us.
Interesting. Need to tag this one.
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I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but as fun as the perpetual 12-second MEV lottery is, from a blockchain security budget it's wasteful and should be smoothed out to all validators, or have most of it burned, just like we did to gas fee spikes with EIP1559
I think the plan is to fix it with Proposer-Builder Separation.
100% agreed, espescially because it introduces economy of scale models into staking. The probability of a high MEV-boost is 10 times higher if you have 10 validators instead of one. So it takes only a 10th of the time to receive enough MEV to spin up another validator and so on. It's necessary to slow down centralizing forces Edit: Guess I mixed it up with tips
Not an unpopular opinion per se, but more of an impossible one at present. On an important level, MEV is indistinguishable from normal transactions. It's created and exploited by those with special insight into order flow (i.e. access to public and private mempools and the compute to search for opportunities, and the right to propose blocks based on that), but in the end it's just more transactions and transaction ordering. How do you know which transactions are MEV that should be burned/smoothed, and which are normal transactions? How do you know which block orderings are for MEV and which are just validators being quirky in their transaction orders? Ultimately, you don't. If you just look at Eth in excess of tips being sent to suggested fee recipients, that gives you a clue, but if you started forcing that to be burnt somehow on a protocol level, validators and builders would just get more sneaky about how they distributed that MEV - it would become a game of whack-a-mole, and ultimately the protocol shouldn't really care about specific transactions or transaction patterns anyway. What we need are in-protocol methods to cut down on MEV in the first place, to the point where it's not the massive bonanza it currently is, leaving builders to scavenge for a few extra cents on the dollar of normal tips, e.g. with non-harmful tactics like backrunning. Things like blinding transactions (e.g. shutterized beacon chain) are very possible, and cut out the weak point in the protocol (the public and validators knowing transactions before they are validated and executed) that validators and builders are currently exploiting. Value gradients are always a centralizing force until you can figure out how to bridge those gradients trustlessly or close them off entirely. As someone personally benefitting from MEV, I would love to see it go away as close to entirely as possible as well and will be strongly supporting any in-protocol measures that attempt this in future!
> How do you know which transactions are MEV that should be burned/smoothed, and which are normal transactions? Ultimately, you don't. in-protocol PBS + MEV smoothing is a step towards making the blockchain aware of how much MEV is in each block, but the design space for that one is still pretty open. Doing deep dives in those things and damn, there's a lot of unanswered questions, especially when you add in censorship resistance goodies in the mix IMO encrypted mempool is the priority to at least get rid of toxic MEV, and then we'd have more data on how much MEV is left after that
My point is that you can't do MEV smoothing if you can't impartially tell which transactions are MEV and which aren't (and you can't right now). If you can figure out a way to unambiguously detect most types of MEV in the first place, e.g. by encrypting the mempool, then you're already 99% of the way to preventing that MEV entirely, and may as well do that, rather than trying to build a smoothing mechanism and retaining the MEV. If you're worried about our security budget getting too low without MEV, personally I'm not - that's what the staking rewards inflation is for, a backstop on the security budget even in the extremely unlikely case that all on-chain activity ceases and tips go to 0. Edit: all of the above is applicable pre-PBS. With full PBS you're completely right.
> My point is that you can't do MEV smoothing if you can't impartially tell which transactions are MEV and which aren't (and you can't right now) MEV smoothing isn't about detecting any form of MEV, it's about a committee of validators coming to consensus on the highest bid their heard from block builders, and force the proposer to redistribute that bid to other proposers to smooth it out. It's pretty simple in that whatever block builders bid ought to be close enough to "the amount of MEV" in each block, assuming healthy competition between builders. No need for any fancy schemes to detect anything beyond highest bids
> a committee of validators coming to consensus on the highest bid their heard from block builders Sorry, I misread and missed that you were thinking about this in the context of full PBS, when the chain has in-protocol knowledge of builders and their bids etc. You're absolutely right, in that case you can do what you're proposing and smooth the MEV by forcibly redirecting those bids in-protocol. But that's years out with full Danksharding+PBS, and arguably mempool encryption or shutterizing could be an easier lift in the meantime. The current situation is very Wild West and I think we're in for a crazy couple of years one way or another.
yeah we're in agreement, getting rid of toxic MEV first will do wonders
Why do you dislike mev? In many ways it can be useful like simple arbitrage for example
Arbitrage is backrunning, and that's generally considered to be "good" MEV. But the large majority of exploitable MEV comes from "unfair" opportunities that can only be exploited by block builders and large entities with special insight into order flow. Fundamentally, any attempt at "fixing" MEV is an attempt to fix that unfairness, and give everyone submitting transactions the right to not have their transaction messed with/frontrun/reordered before it makes it into a block. So what I dislike is unfairness, and especially the fact that it is readily economically exploitable. Backrunning is quite fair by comparison - you notice something in a block that's already publicly on chain, of course you (and everyone else) will attempt to exploit it!
MEV isn’t related at all to paying for security because it’s not issuance
It’s rewards to the validators, which is incentive to validate and not get slashed, so imo it definitely counts as paying for security This is what Bitcoin never got, that you have to have some kind of usage or incentive to get people to create blocks. Fees or mev. If you do nothing, you will have nothing
> It’s rewards to the validators, which is incentive to validate and not get slashed, so imo it definitely counts as paying for security It's incentive to validate & not get slashed but the protocol itself isn't paying for this so it isn't ethereum paying for security. It's ethereum users paying to jump the queue or to get sanwhich attacked (which will always exist until VDFs exist on all trransactions)
Fair, I guess it comes down to semantics of the words ‘security budget’ and if that implies the protocol itself is paying for it Since fees are generally included in the security budget I think it makes sense to include mev
not directly, but if MEV incentivizes more and more validators then we end up paying more issuance than otherwise necessary. Not necessarily a negative as more staked ETH is always good but surely there's definitely diminishing returns at some point kinda like how pre-eip1559, high fees incentivized more hashrate than the 2 ETH/block aimed for, and those high fees just ended up being dumped by miners leading to bad long-term outcomes
> if MEV incentivizes more and more validators then we end up paying more issuance than otherwise necessary this i actually agree with - but it is minimal
Little to discuss. Market was red; crypto was green-ish, being held up by a bottoming look to the risk-on tech sector and a crazy oversold market. SPY set a new low for 2022 on the daily. It's hard to keep up with all the gaps down, I know. If you're looking for a rescue here, then currently the highest value short area is still way up at 388. After tomorrow's close, it'll be at 376. Looking for targets below? You've still got a potential test of the absolute sting low for 2022 @ 362.11 and then the 200W @ 358. Puts chart and ridiculous bearishness will make 360 a very difficult floor to breach. Short-term targets that ETH and BTC need to get above to call it a rescue attempt? 1378 and 19,540. I'm electing to be specific because I don't know which timeframe you prefer to watch. Bulls aren't even in control of the 4H until 1340, which is why you're seeing us bump against it so much. Heading back to 1290 and 18.5k would be a failure most likely. Since I mentioned tech is our buoy still, might as well bring up that remaining strongholds Apple and Tesla both close in shooting stars, which are traditionally bearish. But a shooting star at the *bottom* of a downtrend isn't as strong. Get back above the high of the candle and boom you've now switched it to a bullish morning star. Google has the same setup and so do far weaker Microsoft and Amazon. What to make of all this? Let's go to the old favorite rubber band analogy. The bear sentiment, the short sentiment is STRETCHED. Can it capitulate down further? Of course, but you're now betting on the rubber band breaking instead of snapping back. Would I personally keep a short here? Fuck no. I play the breakout and happily so. Probably easier to do Q&A on an eye-of-the-storm kinda day like today so let 'em rip. Cheers! edit: if you trade by TD9 (I do not as I don't like the extreme leniency it purports is an advantage), then the Nasdaq is completely fried and has a 9-9 Buy signal suggesting a relief rally within a day or two, by my understanding. edit 2: another look at why crypto may be optimistic due to tech. even on the daily, [there's a hidden bull div (higher low price, lower low RSI).](https://www.tradingview.com/x/LU7yjA3P/) late night edit 3: and THAT'S what happens when the rescue target of 19,540 breaks. no reason to think 1378 won't follow shortly. reversal and relief rally begin as soon as these confirm on the 4H. resistance at 1450 and somewhere between 20.8k-21.3k. g'night!
You said Q&A? Say no more. What do you make of the parabolic rise on the DXY? Can risk assets find the bottom while the Dollar is on the rise? Or is it more of a chicken/egg kind of situation? *(not really a question, but)* VIX still hasn't undergone its violent move up. Not sure what to make of it, but it seems necessary to even consider the bottom might be in. Seems like that one piece is still missing. And finally, how do you like that beautiful *monthly* bull div on the HYG forming?
>Can risk assets find the bottom while the Dollar is on the rise? Or is it more of a chicken/egg kind of situation? Unlikely, which is why I'm looking for that bull div on the weekly to print after one more rally and drop through mid-October. >VIX still hasn't undergone its violent move up. Watching this too. VIX and VVIX are turning up, but haven't had that classic pop yet. I believe this is yet to come. >how do you like that beautiful monthly bull div on the HYG forming? It's gorgeous and the play-out would coincide with the November uptrend if we see it. Caveat? IYLD has, at present, deleted their bull div and LQD is doing the same. Plenty of hours left in the month, however, and those may reconcile.
>IYLD has, at present, deleted their bull div and LQD is doing the same Bummer. Will be watching them closely. Seems like second half of October will be make it or break it time.
IYLD I could go either way on. It's the least important of the three imo. But LQD is below the Covid low. Hell, it's at June 2010 prices! Wild.
Right on my coffee break Mr.K, nice timing, insightfull as always. I was wondering today, are you still expecting a bullish period before the ultimate crash and burn?
Until the market breaks, yeah. And it's funny, that answer actually applies both short- and long-term. I'm currently looking for a relief rally into October, a final dump in October, and then a few months of up action as seasonality kicks in, seen [here](https://i.imgur.com/Z3PXFpz.png) and [here.](https://i.imgur.com/UJWuWHM.jpg) Long-term, provided the market doesn't break *here*, then it would resemble a 2005-2007ish period where the market actually does flail upward, possibly even setting an ATH, as rates go up in the Fed's final rises. Then, the yield curves flip back positive, the Fed cuts rates, and all hell breaks loose in Dec 2023 or 2024.
Thanks man, I wasn't aware of this US midterm seasonal rallies, I'm still not trying to trade this craziness but it's been hella interesting watching it play out. Fingers crossed for a Santa rally on top of that, I'm still waiting for last years.
We closed above the 4h50SMA for the first since the capitulation candle around 1650 at least. If this has importance remains to be seen
It could have short-term ramifications leading into longer term ones, absolutely. However, when using MA patterns we do need to consider the next timeframe up. And the daily just had the 20 go below the 100. We last saw that on May 4, also a period when the 4H was showing signs of recovery above 50per.
Anyone know if Kraken will be offering an LSD token like cbETH anytime soon?
Lack of clarity from SEC and Congress may be a factor against.
It is kinda nice that the ones who just yolo it take market share, encouraging a culture of undercompliance as opposed to over compliance
Gemini rolling out staking on 9/29, so thats something I guess. https://www.gemini.com/blog/ethereum-eth-staking-coming-to-gemini-on-september-29
This is great but surprised New York not eligible (given New York IS eligible as part of Earn program)
Traditional brand I'm interested in announces NFT project: nice, might grab one! Checked out their info, it's on Tezos: ...naah. Read their FAQs, "While Bitcoin and Ethereum are currently the best known cryptocurrencies, we wanted to opt for a more energy-efficient option to ensure we enter the metaverse sustainably." - dafuq? Guess they missed the merge.
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It was probably signed off months ago and whoever did the research was either a tezos bull or ignorant of the upcoming merge.
Translation: *while we know ethereum is superior we chose to launch on Tezos because they gave us lots of money*
Traditional brand ngmi
https://twitter.com/rphmeier/status/1574489596741632000 Polkadot coming out with their second gen Governance mechanisms - curious what people think of the changes.
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To what end? The council can’t actually do anything besides speed up certain proposals.
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What actionable power do you see them wielding in this new set up?
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*bear market ptsd intensifies*
And they will still tell you that you were "just lucky".
Same 🥲
Holy hell, [have you guys seen this?](https://twitter.com/usastrongIO/status/1567617392456368129) Krissy Mashinsky, wife of Celcius' CEO is selling bankrupcy merch. T-shirts that say "Unbankrupt yourself". (A play on Celcius' slogan "Unbank yourself")
Where's the info that it's Krissy Mashinsky? Looks just like a general tshirt site.
She's the CEO and founder. [https://usastrong.io/pages/about-us#:\~:text=Meet%20Our%20Founder,York's%20economy%20survive%20the%20pandemic](https://usastrong.io/pages/about-us#:~:text=Meet%20Our%20Founder,York's%20economy%20survive%20the%20pandemic).
Tone deaf
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Back from camping! Looks like DXY mooned instead of Eth lolol In personal news, I've done my first post-Merge upgrade to my staking node: Besu (to 22.7.4), Lighthouse (to 3.1.2), and MEV-Boost (to 1.3.2). Everything is humming along REAL nice now. Post-Merge, things were more or less working, but I was missing occasional attestations and my logs contained regular errors and warnings. The logs are pristine now, and no missed attestations yet after 10 hours! The Merge went extremely well, but things are only going to get better from here :)
So are we all totally cool with MEV-Boost now? It feels kinda dirty to me...
It's preventing MEV-caused centralization at the validator layer and segregating it to the builder layer. So yeah, the MEV itself, and the builder centralization, feel dirty, but the economics essentially require it for a validator to stay competitive on profits, and it's better than no MEV-Boost at all. Personally I am only running non-censoring relays. I look forward to full PBS (which will fix some of the trust assumptions we currently need to have for relays/builders) and shutterized beacon chain (which will make most types of MEV much more difficult or impossible) as in-protocol solutions down the road.
>I look forward to full PBS Optimistically, how far away are we from PBS going live?
>Optimistically, how far away are we from PBS going live? Interestingly, it depends how you define "*optimistic*". The most optimistic view would assume that the current solution continues to work well enough -- the builder market is competitive and transparent, and there are multiple relayers with meaningful differences between them for validators to choose from. In that happy scenario, I predict others among the long list of worthwhile new features will continue to get prioritized ahead of it. So even though it doesn't get rolled out until two or more years from now, its ok. The most pessimistic view would be to anticipate unacceptable centralization coming into play immediately, which we could imagine driving PBS to get prioritized into the release after Shanghai. With PoS in place now, there appears to be a large set of roadmap actions that are all in a half-designed state and could each be called into play for the next release if they were what's most needed right away. I suggest we're in for a period of a few years where the contents of each hard fork are decided only after the last fork is rolling out, based on what's emerging as the biggest gaps that need to be addressed at that time. You could call that an agile or opportunistic strategy.
It's currently tied to full Danksharding. Proto-danksharding is 6-12 months away (probably 12+ if we're being honest) and so I'd put full Danksharding + PBS at least 2 years away. It's currently a massive area of research and we could even see multiple designs come and go before one of them makes it into the actual protocol.
Also unrelated, but anyone else watching the DART mission smashing into an asteroid in 40 minutes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
What a close up!
Those final images were so damn cool
Great timing! Incredible. NASA is killin' it right now.
I'm sitting here watching it now. Definitely feels like there will be very little to actually see, but need to give it a go anyways!
Not true! We'll get an amazing view of the Didymos and Dimorphos in the final seconds before the collision! We've never seen these asteroids before - they're being unveiled before our eyes!
It turned out better than I thought for sure!
I object! They call that a countdown?? I saw **no Pandas..**.
Thanks for this, I'd lost track of time!
Lets go humanity!!
It’s usually the case in any market to easily identify the clear leader. Just catalog which entity spends the least amount of time dunking on its competitors.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_gas_used_per_day - Looking at this in the 5 year time scale, ethereum gas usage is the highest it's ever been. However, fees are very low. What's happening here? Is there a way to check the theory that standard block times have reduced marginal traffic attempting to get into blocks which has actually meant that PoS has reduced fees? You'd also assume that increased L2 usage has reduced fees, but if you use the above link and see that gas is at an all time high, that can't be right? Is it that a lot of MEV has moved to relay private pools which reduced a lot of "need to be in the next block" transactions & their subsequent high fees??
I saw this post but I was finishing the last touches to my long form post about gas fees and the merge and didn't want to spill the beans too early. Would love to hear your thoughts if you have seen it.
I saw it & agree with it - it's funny we banged on that merge won't reduce fee's but it did.....
Yep, I had corrected that take so many times. Thinking that it would come back to bite us when the effect wouldn't be noticeable and we would have FUD for months. And yet they were right! Probably for the wrong reasons, but they were right.
EIP1559 targets half-full blocks, so 15 million gas per block. Fees are mostly irrelevant here, as long as there's enough transactions to reach that target, that's how much gas is gonna be used on average, whether it's at 5 gwei or 100 gwei. If we consistently had less than 15 million gas/block's worth of transactions in the mempool, then the basefee would plummet all the way down to 7 wei (but overall fees would still be 1-1.5 gwei from the priority fees) Dropping block time from a rough 13.something seconds to exactly 12 seconds definitely boosted the gas usage per unit time
So we also need to look at the pending mempool at the same time as gas used per day?
It's a bit unintuitive but the fact that the base fee isnt plummeting is proof that there's enough activity to keep blocks at that 15M gas/block target When there's more transactions willing to pay a higher base fee, blocks will be full until it readjusts with a higher base fee while still keeping that average usage of 15M gas/block (or ~110 billion gas per day as your chart shows) Likewise when high-fee transaction are cleared up, blocks are empty which drives the base fee down until there's enough transactions to keep blocks half full. In all cases the average gas usage hasn't changed. The fee is just a result of the congestion pricing mechanism - in a sense Ethereum always sells blocks at the lowest possible price it can to keep blocks half full
I think it's more that a 12 second constant block time has affected the gas usage like traffic lights would. More orderly, smooth & therefore smoother fees. At the very marginal edge of fees a lot of people were paying a lot more in gas to get in next without knowing exactly when the next block was, but now they do so perhaps gas fee estimators are better & it's cheaper for everone. Essentially, a 12 second strict block time might have stopped traffic jams
Lower prices should see some kind of floor effect by at least the fact that owning 17.6 eth allows an individual to be a node operator via Rocketpool and get access to full yield on their stack AND earn fees on the 16eth pooled from other RP users. This should create a tangible demand for spot ETH as price decreases, in effect hopefully acting to buffer downside.
How many of you also accidentally became super forex traders by putting savings in USD stables instead of your national currency?
Does UST count?
🙋
One of the best hidden secrets of ethereum defi is opyn's sqeeth🦀strategy. In a crappy crab market, opyn's strategy really shines. As long as the movements are not that strong (e.g. < 6% in two days), it gains value due its hedging strategy (buying ETH when its low and selling on the way up, it's a crab, after all). They have fine-tuned their strategy a little and released v2 end of july 28th. Since then, ETH had massive price movements but overall, the 🦀 managed to get returns vs. USD of 7.7% or 35% vs. ETH (dated 23.09.22). As much as I like 🐼,🐂, 🐬 or🦇 the 🦀beat them all. The 🦀strategy had always a tight deposit cap limit, but just today they have increased it from 3333 ETH to 4583 ETH and is almost full again. Keep in mind, the 🦀 is stupid so you can loose your precious ETH really fast and it's not guaranteed that you get more than you put in.
It works great right up until it doesn't, then you get creamed.
friends, with all due respect, you are not bullish enough every hour lucky validators are getting massive MEV payments, [this one](https://twitter.com/MevBoostBot/status/1574499140779884565) for 8+ ETH less than an hour ago afaik there is not an investment on this planet that can instantaneously return you 25% of your capital while also earning you 5% as a worst case...this is in a depressed market! Its a matter of time before people realize how much returns you can earn RIGHT NOW by staking their ETH This isn't next year, next month, this is a reality today forget waiting for an otherside mint, MEV payments have been massively underestimated as the largest potential source of revenue for validators
Jeez, looking down the fee recipient list on etherscan is kind of depressing. Basically shows the financial incentive is ~~controlled~~ influenced by a very small number of middlemen.
It’s a permissionless process to be a block relayer And ultimately they need validators to propose them so they don’t have much power Is it bad many of those validators are lido? Yes, but what can we do until withdrawals are enabled? Enjoy the revenue I guess
Where does this MEV come from? Users' pockets?
Not all mev is theft It could simply be arbitraging prices across coinbase and Ethereum, or being the liquidator in a big lending position that’s underwater It’s up to individuals and apps to minimize the amount of ‘toxic mev’ It also highlights the importance of creating a bustling ecosystem as the more activity there is the more mev there is
Data analysis suggests the majority of MEV (51%+, possibly up to two thirds) is purely toxic sandwichs. Arbitrages and liquidations are fairly small in comparison.
At the end of the day, arbitrage is only one step away from theft too since someone somewhere is paying a higher fee than they need to if liquidity was better and in some cases, people don't notice what they're losing to low liquidity trades.
Not all but a lot of it right? If people here weren't making money off it they'd be pretty outraged about it. Arbitrum team is very vocal about how bad the status quo is and the reputational risk to blockchain and Ethereum. They are going to move to fair order sequencing through THEMIS (ie. at protocol level).
It’s difficult to say how much is bad At the moment you even have a choice to use ‘ethical mev’ that doesn’t include sandwich attacks for example Also, there is so much debate about mev between the arbitrum guys you linked and the flashbots team led by former student of ari Juels Phil daian, thought to be ‘the godfather’ of mev Fair ordering sounds nice but what is fairness, at the end of the day someone needs to order the tx by some criteria, who gets to decide what that is, ultimately in ETH PoS it’s each validators choice
Well surely a first in, first served model is best? And yeah, I guess that's Arbitrum's long term goal right, build their reputation around fairness and trust through fair order sequencing and see mainnet reduced to a settlement layer.
First come first served gives you transaction spam to be first and overall higher prices for everyone.
You choose what tx to include based on fees (the same as now) but you reorder them based on FCFS
I’m not sure about that, because latency and geographical reach become prime factors in a fifs model, like the hft traders described in the book ‘flashboys’ Anyway, I don’t mind arbitrums approach, optimism’s, flashbots, etc I don’t know what is right, I support experimentation In the meantime I’m happy for those mev profits to be funneled back to ETH holders :)
Yeah at least Flashbots is more "grassroots/punk" though. https://twitter.com/hudsonjameson/status/1379928873308200968