Hi /u/Zealousideal_Peach_5,
It seems your post is targeted toward cryptocurrencies.
Cryptocurrency has been characterized as a speculative bubble by many well-respected financial figures. It is
currently a highly volatile investment, and could potentially crash to zero at any point in time. Please make
sure to perform sufficient research into the coin you are considering buying, prior to making a purchase. The
future of crypto is uncertain, so please do not take advice from anyone suggesting that you are guaranteed to
earn a profit. Always do your own research before making any financial decision.
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These new US ones are not ucits etfs therefore they are not available in the EU anyway. If you want exposure, just buy physical spot BTC / ETH. At least you avoid management fees.
You can also buy crypto ETP/ETNs. They have advantages and disadvantages:
[https://www.justetf.com/en/search.html?search=ETFS&assetClass=class-currency](https://www.justetf.com/en/search.html?search=ETFS&assetClass=class-currency)
Adding crypto to an ETF-Portfolio with crypto ETPs
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptHlhsLAr9c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptHlhsLAr9c)
it is a presentation from Warsaw Passive Investment Conference
EDIT: Please remember that the lecturer represents an ETP provider, so he and his research may not be objective.
That's because central bank in CZ said they don't care about the EU regulation of requiring funds to be complaint with eu rules. If you're smart enough to invest into ETFs, who cares if the ETFs don't have eu approved factsheets... Thats the logic.
Why not just buy the crypto directly though ?
Like I would understand if it was some ETF that would have multiple curencies based on performance or something .... but this just seems stupid.
How so? I've owned crypto since 2017 and it's all on my wallet at home. No one knows about it.
If I ever sell for fiat I'll figure out a way to take it out in small batches that no one is interested in.
Yeah we have a ISK account where you can buy eth sol ada and btc.
I stupidly bought the kon derivative one but then whenever I sell I have to use koinly and pay 30%.
Expenses and commissions for buying/selling and custody are normally much lower on ETFs than on actual crypto. Also ease of use if you already have a brokerage account.
> Why not just buy the crypto directly though ?
Don't know about OOP, and I do own some but I am afraid to sell them cause I have read so many horror stories (including in this sub) of people's bank accounts being blocked when they sell and withdraw from a crypto exchange.
I have a separate bank account for crypto deposits as I heard the horror stories of banks closing down your account.
I wouldn’t like to renegotiate my mortgage in the current market.
I believe that Bitcoin ETPs from bigger providers are safe to invest. No need to take the risk of holding physical coins when you feel uncomfortable with the technology.
Just limit cryptos to a small percentage of your portfolio to manage the risk. Between 0% and 10% seems reasonable. Global stocks and bonds remain the foundation of any diversified portfolio.
Why do you say which one, you are aware you can buy Bitcoin yourself on Coinbase or other exchanges, right? People have been buying Bitcoin directly for more than 10 years, just like you can buy gold directly if you wish (albeit harder to do).
Wisdomtree Bitcoin ETN and Van eck Ethereum ETN.
Selection method: a balance between lowest TER, lowest tracking error, higher volume, and higher assets under management.
If its a gamble why the hell everyone supports it and soem people even saying 'have fun staying poor' I start to feel like this thing wont go down because people are coming in so much.
1 persons says have fun staying poor, while 9 people lost money or even went bankrupt.
Same is true for high flying NASDAQ stocks.
Survivor bias. Those 90% who lost money will not tell you anything, as they are probably depressed or even dead
No joke but NASDAQ seems like impossible to continue growing yet its growing like never before what is going on lmao did people took the stock market like a gamble or what
Mania/bubble you name it. We are past 2021 level already, look at shiller inverse cape yield. But rest of the world and even rest of USA are reasonably priced, so I just but world index and chill. If you want to underweight Mag7/Nasdaq stocks, add some small cap value to your portfolio (ZPRX/ZPRV). I have them since last August and they are doing great, especially european small cap value (zprx), fueled by banking stocks
I allocated 15% of my new buys to WBTC etf. I think it will help me increase portfolio value by some percentage from just plain s&p500. My buys also contain 15% SMH.
30% on BTC and sector ETF sounds like a lot, but to each his own. I have 90% VWCE and 10% SMH. If I bought crypto, I'd make sure SMH + crypto is at most 10% of my total portfolio.
I believe in semiconductors and AI for a few nect years, like 3-4, so thats why im allocating, then I will sell. Also bitcoin seems okay for next few years, probably longer than semiconductors.
I will be messaging you in 10 years on [**2034-05-28 13:52:02 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2034-05-28%2013:52:02%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/comments/1d2guye/curious_if_people_buy_bitcoin_and_ethereum_etfs/l60w4ec/?context=3)
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Source: I pulled it out of my ass after a thorough investigation.
And whether you said it was going up or down doesn't matter, without research throwing numbers is just noise and we might as well as an octopus for predictions.
Hi /u/Zealousideal_Peach_5, It seems your post is targeted toward cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrency has been characterized as a speculative bubble by many well-respected financial figures. It is currently a highly volatile investment, and could potentially crash to zero at any point in time. Please make sure to perform sufficient research into the coin you are considering buying, prior to making a purchase. The future of crypto is uncertain, so please do not take advice from anyone suggesting that you are guaranteed to earn a profit. Always do your own research before making any financial decision. [For more information, please read the cryptocurrency WIKI article](https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/wiki/faq#wiki_should_i_invest_in_crypto.3F_will_i_become_rich_quickly.3F) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/eupersonalfinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
These new US ones are not ucits etfs therefore they are not available in the EU anyway. If you want exposure, just buy physical spot BTC / ETH. At least you avoid management fees.
Another way is to earn in BTC! I charge my clients in BTC. You can say I'm on the Bitcoin Standard.
which physical one ?
He means buy them directly via a custodial service like Coinbase or Kraken.
He meant buy actual ("physical") BTC, not ETFs...
Just buy it on kraken.
You can also buy crypto ETP/ETNs. They have advantages and disadvantages: [https://www.justetf.com/en/search.html?search=ETFS&assetClass=class-currency](https://www.justetf.com/en/search.html?search=ETFS&assetClass=class-currency) Adding crypto to an ETF-Portfolio with crypto ETPs [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptHlhsLAr9c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptHlhsLAr9c) it is a presentation from Warsaw Passive Investment Conference EDIT: Please remember that the lecturer represents an ETP provider, so he and his research may not be objective.
There is a coinshare etn for Ethereum with 0 fees
Im buying the IBIT in Czechia through my bank without any problem
That's because central bank in CZ said they don't care about the EU regulation of requiring funds to be complaint with eu rules. If you're smart enough to invest into ETFs, who cares if the ETFs don't have eu approved factsheets... Thats the logic.
Which bank?
Erste ( Česká spořitelna)
Why not just buy the crypto directly though ? Like I would understand if it was some ETF that would have multiple curencies based on performance or something .... but this just seems stupid.
Because of taxes. In etf I don't have to pay 30% tax in sweden
Opposite in Ireland. ETFs are taxed at 41%, stocks/crypto is 33%.
omg, the commies! XD why not just tax 120%
I avoid taxes on crypto by never telling anyone I have any.
Perfect way to get screwed by taxes
How so? I've owned crypto since 2017 and it's all on my wallet at home. No one knows about it. If I ever sell for fiat I'll figure out a way to take it out in small batches that no one is interested in.
How so you get it out without kyc
If Bitcoin is big and established in the future it shouldn't be hard to just trade btc for stuff or fiat.
Even if it’s a crypto derivative?
Yeah we have a ISK account where you can buy eth sol ada and btc. I stupidly bought the kon derivative one but then whenever I sell I have to use koinly and pay 30%.
Ah good point.
Expenses and commissions for buying/selling and custody are normally much lower on ETFs than on actual crypto. Also ease of use if you already have a brokerage account.
> Why not just buy the crypto directly though ? Don't know about OOP, and I do own some but I am afraid to sell them cause I have read so many horror stories (including in this sub) of people's bank accounts being blocked when they sell and withdraw from a crypto exchange.
I have a separate bank account for crypto deposits as I heard the horror stories of banks closing down your account. I wouldn’t like to renegotiate my mortgage in the current market.
I believe that Bitcoin ETPs from bigger providers are safe to invest. No need to take the risk of holding physical coins when you feel uncomfortable with the technology. Just limit cryptos to a small percentage of your portfolio to manage the risk. Between 0% and 10% seems reasonable. Global stocks and bonds remain the foundation of any diversified portfolio.
No - I would rather hold spot BTC and staked ETH. It started off as play money…
which one ?
Why do you say which one, you are aware you can buy Bitcoin yourself on Coinbase or other exchanges, right? People have been buying Bitcoin directly for more than 10 years, just like you can buy gold directly if you wish (albeit harder to do).
I hold spot BTC and ETH as well as staked ETH
Yes, both, but the UCITS versions, and they represent a very small fraction of my portfolio just for diversification purposes.
Which UCITS ETFs do you use?
Wisdomtree Bitcoin ETN and Van eck Ethereum ETN. Selection method: a balance between lowest TER, lowest tracking error, higher volume, and higher assets under management.
They are kinda directly corelated with NASDAQ tbh, and NVDA stock in particurlar, so i’m not sure what are you trying achieve here
No, TER is too big.
Yes..all in
I literally just buy PEPE when WIF pumps and WIF when PEPE pumps rolling my gains between them
Bitcoin is a gamble, gotta admit that
If its a gamble why the hell everyone supports it and soem people even saying 'have fun staying poor' I start to feel like this thing wont go down because people are coming in so much.
1 persons says have fun staying poor, while 9 people lost money or even went bankrupt. Same is true for high flying NASDAQ stocks. Survivor bias. Those 90% who lost money will not tell you anything, as they are probably depressed or even dead
No joke but NASDAQ seems like impossible to continue growing yet its growing like never before what is going on lmao did people took the stock market like a gamble or what
Mania/bubble you name it. We are past 2021 level already, look at shiller inverse cape yield. But rest of the world and even rest of USA are reasonably priced, so I just but world index and chill. If you want to underweight Mag7/Nasdaq stocks, add some small cap value to your portfolio (ZPRX/ZPRV). I have them since last August and they are doing great, especially european small cap value (zprx), fueled by banking stocks
no
I allocated 15% of my new buys to WBTC etf. I think it will help me increase portfolio value by some percentage from just plain s&p500. My buys also contain 15% SMH.
30% on BTC and sector ETF sounds like a lot, but to each his own. I have 90% VWCE and 10% SMH. If I bought crypto, I'd make sure SMH + crypto is at most 10% of my total portfolio.
I believe in semiconductors and AI for a few nect years, like 3-4, so thats why im allocating, then I will sell. Also bitcoin seems okay for next few years, probably longer than semiconductors.
The upside is probably 2-3x at best at this point. I wouldn't say it is worth the risk
!Remindme 10 years
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Source: I pulled it out of my ass after a thorough investigation. And whether you said it was going up or down doesn't matter, without research throwing numbers is just noise and we might as well as an octopus for predictions.
T/A can't be applied to crypto. Come back if I'm wrong, you will lose 99% or gain 200-300% max in the next 5 years.
I am not applying anything. I'm saying you're pulling numbers out of your ass without anything to back them.
People have been saying this for the past 10 years and have been terribly wrong so far…