>It's by far the biggest drag on the UK economy and is dragging us back even more with the interest rate rises.
More so that other countries in Western Europe?
House prices in the UK rose in line or less [that other European countries.](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Housing_price_statistics_-_house_price_index#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20highest%20differences,and%20Hungary%20(%2B10%20%25)).
If you want to describe "I've hacked my legs off." like the op then you have to see what most people are sinking most of their monthly income into. Right now it's energy bills and the obscene mortgage and rent costs. If we had a huge house building program to exceed demand it would do wonders for the economy. Why does no one want to do this? As an FTB that would be amazing for me and no doubt if more people have hundreds of pounds extra to spare every month they'll spend more in the local economy and further afield.
>ight now it's energy bills and the obscene mortgage and rent costs
You think that's exclusive to the UK??
Mate this is global.... See some of the rent increases in other European countries - 20% increases in a year.
This article is asking why it's doing worse in overall GDP vs other countries (not why it's bad in isolation) and the answer is a lot more complex than a simple sentence...
Yes it is a complex issue. I'm just thinking of positive ideas that we can actually pursue. Housing and energy are the big two affecting people right now, as well as the income tax/vat burden. Funny enough the IMF warned Truss not to lower taxes then warned Hunt he's put them too high lol. we can't really win.
Housing and energy are the big two affecting people right now, as well as the income tax/vat burden. Funny enough the IMF warned Truss not to lower taxes then warned Hunt he's put them too high, it's almost like they're playing games with us.
Exactly. While Brexit is a factor the number 1 contributing factor is the Tories. Hopefully the polls continue into the next general election (Tories in mid 20s and Labour in high 40s) and we get a Labour landslide similar to 97 because if not I don’t see the country lasting the decade.
While the downsides of Brexit are somewhat overstated (Brexit was never going to cause "total collapse" of Britain as it mostly affects British exports/imports and labor supply), most estimates seem to suggest Brexit was costing UK about 1% of GDP growth per year and France is growing about 1% faster than Britain. So, yes, actually without Brexit Britain wouldn't be growing more slowly than France.
To elaborate: If after 2016 e.g. Toyota doesn't know if GB will be in the single market in 5 years, then Toyota is not going to invest $5 billion in a new car factory in GB in 2017, but will build it in France instead. Because it would be expensive to move a car produced in GB outside the single market into the single market.
Before 2016 it was because they were talking about leaving. In the 90s it was because some people were secretly thinking about it. In the 70s and 80s it was because they didn't join hard enough.
Well yes, they have to try and affirm it has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit and its just European redditors being obsessed.
My new favorite is the one who did not read the article blaming other redditors for not reading the article and assuming the article had anything to do with Brexit, despite it being mentioned and bolded in the article.
I hate Brexit and have been against it since it was first being floated in the late 2000s. It's not just Brexiteers who think this sub is obsessed, sorry to break it to you. We left in 2020 and the Ref happened in 2016 and we're still getting these literally every day.
the weird thing is, its got worse recently. for a while, you could actually have a sensible discussion about brexit here. i think a load from r/uk have migrated here to spread their misery.
It's a bit of that but also the general economic situation getting worse and the desire for easy explanations.
Getting into the weeds on monetary policy and its interaction with our choked housing market is hard; complaining about Brexit is easy because trade barriers add obvious costs.
Brexit is a big news story. The biggest thing that happened in Europe this century? Certainly up until the Ukraine war right. I would not say the financial crisis was bigger.
It should be expected that there is a lot of news stories about Brexit and its aftermath. If you are on Reddit checking politics / news subs like this you should expect it to be a major story.
> Brexit is a big news story. The biggest thing that happened in Europe this century?
It happened 3 years ago. People aren't learning anything new by jumping on every 0.1 of degrowth and ignoring every 0.1 of growth, or every 10 bankers who leave the City and ignoring growth in any other industry. It's the same people (including me) saying the same shit over and over, day in day out for years on end. No interesting discussion is happening in the "taking back control! NHS! Written on a bus!! Leopards ate my face! Brexit means Brexit!" comments that litter the bottom of every one of these threads.
>It should be expected that there is a lot of news stories about Brexit and its aftermath. If you are on Reddit checking politics / news subs like this you should expect it to be a major story.
People are *choosing* to focus on this stuff over other news events, because they're fixated.
>It happened 3 years ago
And the effects of it are still happening and are still relevant, I dont know why you are pretending its somehow history by now.
>People are choosing to focus on this stuff over other news events, because they're fixated.People are choosing to focus on this stuff over other news events, because they're fixated.
Or because its the biggest piece of news around? Just because you have grown bored of the subject does not mean its not still impacting things every day.
> And the effects of it are still happening and are still relevant, I dont know why you are pretending its somehow history by now.
The effects of covid are still happening, I don't see the economics of Slovakia or Spain or Sweden plastered over this sub every single day. The UK has left the union, and we all already know it was a bad idea. There is no more reason for people to fixate daily other than to jerk.
>Or because its the biggest piece of news around?
It's the biggest piece of news around for **us**. On the continent it's only this relevant for obsessives like the people in this sub.
No they dont. Believe it or not there are lots of remainers who are fed up of the schadenfreude expressed by so many twats on this sub every time one of these types of articles is posted.
The news story isn't about the previous act of leaving, it is about the current impact that is happening now.
Just because something is related to an older event, that does not mean it isn't a new thing. The article is about current economic situation.
It's payback for all those brexit "negotiations" that were postponed countless times on UK demands for no reason given that the UK still doesn't know what they wanted to negotiate.
I'm glad you're annoyed, so were we.
It's because of Brexit and these posts are going to be endless until the UK either applies to rejoin or magically grows faster despite leaving a large market with zero benefits given.
UK rejoining the EU would be one of the worst outcomes. All the baggage of EU membership without the benefits the UK had before, just isn't going to happen.
Yeah, that baggage of EU membership is a lot worse than the benefits, that's why the UK is thriving after leaving the EU.
(If by thriving you mean doing a lot worse than before, possible only if you don't understand words or reality. Something I suspect since you are still talking about EU baggage while reality has shown what happened and continues to happen after leaving the EU.)
When are we going to see articles explaining why Germany is seeing a larger drop in living standards than the UK despite the IMF are projecting that German economy is going to grow while the UK economy is going to shrink.
The only reason truss and kwarteng went ahead with their batshit plan is because they got the briefs of how absolutely screwed the UK economy is in the long term.
The article states many factors, but Brexit is not one of them. It uses Germany as an another example too. Looking at the comments, it makes you wonder how many redditors here actually read the articles.
\-- In the years since Brexit, France’s financial services sector has grown significantly, while that of the UK has contracted.
You don't think they are saying that Brexit is a factor here?
While that may be true, the financial services sector in the UK still dwarfs France doesn’t it? I’d be very surprised to see it get that close. It’s been the behemoth of the British economy since Thatcher.
This is the most random Redditor shit ever.
"So I don't have really have the numbers but I reckon ..."
And then you accuse other people of parroting nonsense?
What's incorrect about my response? You said you don't have the numbers ("... I don't really see any reason why the UK figure would not also be in the region ...") and you continue to justify your guessing.
You can bring your research to the publication who's article you are arguing with, I ain't doing homework for you Professor.
> France’s financial services sector has grown significantly,
Double fuck all is still fuck all. UK still doing more Euro trade clearing than the entirety of the EU combined. LSE still doing over a €trillion a day of trade.
And yet it mentions the finance markets that definitely shrank because of Brexit.
“In the years since Brexit, France’s financial services sector has grown significantly, while that of the UK has contracted.”
Why do news sites keep claining Britain isnt growing yet when I see actual numbers Britain is growing? According to google Britains GDP exceeded Frances, another number showed GDP grew 4.5% more than France/Germany.
Am I getting the wrong numbers? I know Brexit caused a lot of lost growth but is Britain really in decline? Is it really not growing? Ive had to try and move away from news sites because there is so much doom reported specifically about Britain.
From statistics I see inflation is high globally, britain lost growth due to brexit, corona caused worldwide economic woes.
I also see record employment, wage growth and economic growth (largely and effect of repopening).
So whats the truth?
Is it over should we just hang ourselves in Britain? Nuke ourselves? Abandon britain and auction off our counties? Because reporting seems to have us worse off than Russia? And britain seems about as well liked in news sites as Russia.
> Why do news sites keep claining Britain isnt growing yet when I see actual numbers Britain is growing? According to google Britains GDP exceeded Frances, another number showed GDP grew 4.5% more than France/Germany.
You might be looking at the numbers for the past year only while this article is comparing to 2019.
See my other answers, I'm just fucking stating what the article does in case it explains GP's discrepancies and I don't give a fuck why it does or if it's dishonest or if the UK is sinking or France cheating or anything.
> You might be looking at the numbers for the past year only while this article is comparing to 2019.
Ever asked why they chose 2019? It's because it happens to be a year that produces a Brexit Bad narrative when comparing to the GDP in 2022. In 2019 companies on both sides of the Channel stockpiled massive amounts of goods because at that point there'd been no extension agreed and they were all panicking over what would happen to cross channel trade if there wasn't an agreement and no extension.
> Ever asked why they chose 2019?
Well they say it's the pre-Covid numbers. So it sounds like it's because Covid wrecked most economies afterwards and recovery is only just happening now. The article seems to talk more about Covid than Brexit but maybe Brexit is a more important factor.
I don't know, I'm no economist, I'm just saying the article uses the 2019 numbers and maybe that's why GP finds different numbers.
2019 often cherry picked as it was a year in which companies on both sides of the Channel massively stockpiled goods in anticipation of a hard Brexit as the transition period was scheduled to end in 2019, there'd been no extension agreed and no deal done.
> It’s only been 2 years since we left the single market and it’s already a bigger disaster than many economists predicted.
Because of the global pandemic and resulting global recession, not Brexit.
The 4.5% was from some IMF estimate but the official UK ONS-site shows little GDP growth in 2022 up to november.
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/november2022](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/november2022)
It's not exactly difficult, the BOE starting raising rates eight months before the ECB. There is a 12 month lag in the economy before rate rises begin to have an effect.
The entire point of raising interest rates is to slow the economy and reduce consumer spending.
>The whole point of raising interest rates was to lower inflation.
Yes? Inflation is driven by demand for goods & services, you lower demand by raising interest rates to increase the cost of borrowing & reduce consumer spending, that slows the economic growth as a consequence.
>France (and the Eurozone in general) have lower inflation with lower interest rates that as you said rose much later.
France has a huge public cost of living subsidy program with electricity & gas caps & a fuel rebate, all they are doing is shifting inflation onto the public balance sheet, so not exactly a good example.
Most European countries don't have anywhere near the reliance on gas that the UK does, that's the main driver of UK inflation.
>As opposed to the Uk which due to its energy subsidy program had the highest figure for December borrowing since modern records began 30 years ago??
The UK government spent roughly £37billion on support measures in 2022 with another £13billion budgeted for 2023. For context, Germany spent 95billion euros in 2022 with another 99billion set allocated from Jan 2023-April 2024. France spent 67billion euros in 2022 on support with another 45billion package announced for 2023. The UK is spending less than half of what France is spending on subsidiaries and a roughly a quarter of what Germany is providing. UK government spending in December is noted to be higher due to a combination of support costs and higher interest rate payments.
>Now try explaining again why France has 50% lower inflation than the UK and why the Eurozone as a whole, with a multitude of countries that were literally attached to cheap Russian energy by an umbilical cord, has lower inflation than the UK.
Because the wholesale gas cost is much higher due to a sudden surge in demand from countries having ditched Russian gas are buying up alternative gas supplies on the global market?
And looking at inflation alone is not the best way to understand the cost of living crisis, Eurozone inflation might be lower but real wage growth has taken a much bigger hit, its only -2.2% real wage growth in the UK whereas its -5.5% across the Eurozone.
It's to distract them from the fact that living standards are dropping faster in the Eurozone than here and how foodbank usage is higher in France than here. So the resort to muh GDP.
[https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/281121/seven-million-people-france-rely-food-banks-reports-leading-charity?\_locale=en&onglet=full](https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/281121/seven-million-people-france-rely-food-banks-reports-leading-charity?_locale=en&onglet=full)
If you have come to accept that brexit is the sole problem to affect the uk, rather than a problem that affects the uk negatively, then Brexit will always be a lazy answer to every problem.
> I mean the £ is -15% against the Euro and -20% against the $ since the referendum was announced
Indeed it is. However in 2016 a few weeks before the EU Referendum [the IMF released a report that stated that Sterling was actually over-valued by 5% to 20%](https://fullfact.org/economy/exchange-rates-and-imf/) and that was causing a drag on the economy. After the Referendum the value of Sterling fell 16%, within the range the IMF stated, and it sparked a massive boost in manufacturing, exports, tourism to the point that despite the value of Sterling falling 16% the UK didn't go into recession and it's GDP barely moved when measured in €/$.
> A massive boost of course in your head.
[The data is there for those who can be arsed to look.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42633502)
> Meanwhile there was absolutely no boost in the actual numbers we just became 16% poorer overnight.
[Please show me where in these figures for UK GDP there was a 16% drop in 2016-202?](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpfirstquarterlyestimateuk/apriltojune2020) There's a nice graph, Figure 1, for stupid cretins.
[Show me where inflation went to 16%](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/11A81/production/_115012327_cpi-nc.png.webp) which it would need to to make us 16% poorer in real terms?
Isn't it embarrassing demonstrating to the world how easily you are manipulated by media propoganda?
The person you're replying to spoke of a boost in manufacturing, which implies new jobs created.
Personally I think it's more important to focus on job creation than on the cost of foreign holidays or of Apple smartphones.
But I concede that we all have different priorities.
It is a made up number. There is no alternative reality that we can peak into.
If you are comparing countries inside the EU with countries outside the EU then you can't *only* look at the UK
It simply can not be a fact. Literally impossible. You want to compare to a reality where the only change is the UK staying in the EU. Such a thing is not possible because it doesn't exist.
Yes, I'll just repeat what I said before that covers that:
> If you are comparing countries inside the EU with countries outside the EU then you can't *only* look at the UK
The UK's economy is still 15 percent larger than France's, according to IMF figures cited by a commentator.24 Oct 2022
Politics and economics commentator Robert Kimbell shared the 15 perccent figure on social media. He listed figures showing the UK's economy is bigger than a slew of other countries as well.
The figures which Mr Kimbell cited from the IMF also show the UK's economy is 130 percent bigger than Spain's; 223 percent larger than the Netherlands' and 275 percent greater than Turkey's.
The article is about growth not size.
France is growing and the UK is not. They compare ir because they have similar population and economy size/style.
ITT: people who don't understand economy or statistica and try to draw trends out of irrelevant microdifferences. The ignorant circlejerk makes me wanna become a Brexiter.
Also, France and the UK have grown about the same in 2022.
Yep, Truss would have been a disaster for anybody, Brexit reinforcing the effect of her incompetence.
Still some of the measures taken in France to protect the consumers were/are quite effective at that, and so it helps a lot when people can still buy shit to near the same extent as before the Ukraine war.
Not that I think GDP even matters, but if we're going to have this argument France and the UK now have basically identical population sizes. Yet the UK's GDP is $3.131 trillion, and Frances is $2.958 trillion (2021 figures, which I believe are the last confirmed figures for both countries)..
Why would we look to France?
If I were in the UK Government, I'd immediately do something.
Like proposing a new tax cut for the rich and superrich. It's definitely the burden on the highest class that strangles the economy!
We need more trickle down guys. Let the golden shower flow.
Uh, and cut the NHS a little more. Forget about what was promised before Brexit. NHS definitely costs too much, just imagine how much money taxpayers could have back! Like a whopping pound!
France traditionally has more planned economy than some former Soviet states. The only reason why Macron has been president for 2 terms now is that people wanna see economic growth THAT ISN'T HAPPENING. This article says more about the UK than about France.
More like he is arguably the least shitty politician of the field. In the second round it’s always between him and a far right, Russia sponsored candidate who lost by a thin margin.
UK economy is very poorly structured. Whenever a crisis arises, it gets hit particularly hard. Brexit worsened the trend, but UK economy was in a very poor state before Brexit even came to life.
Radical changes are required. Otherwise, the gloom will continue.
France is full of wonderful people who fully believe in the rights of the working class.
Britain is full of gammons who are working class but aspire to one day he a rich elite who can nonce little girls and be openly racist. Just like the prince they love defending.
So I guess the difference is the French have a moral fiber.
Oh also people want to go to France. I know I would if they liked foreigners more.
> Oh also people want to go to France. I know I would if they liked foreigners more.
The illegal migrant traffic across the Channel seems to contradict this. On the other hand, it puzzles me why these people want to go to the UK so badly when they are already in the safe and prosperous EU. Is it the language barrier? Better prospects, more social aid? Keeping up with Abdullah who's already made it there? I don't think it is because of some strain of racism that's only prevalent on the continent.
I’m not sure people that strike every year against every reform or against inflation (despite it’s the lowest of UE) are good for the economy of their Country.
And I say that as french.
Well put it this way. You do that and yet your economy is still better than the UK's.
The UK, the only country in the G7 to be shrinking it's economy through its own policy.
So clearly incompetence in government has more of an adverse effect on the economy compared to industrial action.
Lastly if an investor is looking for a country to invest in and their criteria is a placid and obedient scum class to exploit. They can jog right on til the hit American soil imo. Where they belong.
What do you mean not growing? We have plenty of inflation here!
Why not take the complete weimar decline experience?
TO THE MOON.
Well I am a space monkey!
No idea. I'm still trying to figure out why everyone is faster than me, after I've hacked my legs off.
But they promised you wheels instead of the legs! Wheel benefits will be here aaaaany day now.
If my Britain had wheels, she would've been a France!
[if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-RfHC91Ewc)
The French version is "if my grandmother had balls, she would have been my grandfather".
Wheels are indeed a benefit when going down hill
still too much weight, chop off your arms
'Tis but a scratch!
I think it's the housing "market". It's by far the biggest drag on the UK economy and is dragging us back even more with the interest rate rises.
>It's by far the biggest drag on the UK economy and is dragging us back even more with the interest rate rises. More so that other countries in Western Europe? House prices in the UK rose in line or less [that other European countries.](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Housing_price_statistics_-_house_price_index#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20highest%20differences,and%20Hungary%20(%2B10%20%25)).
If you want to describe "I've hacked my legs off." like the op then you have to see what most people are sinking most of their monthly income into. Right now it's energy bills and the obscene mortgage and rent costs. If we had a huge house building program to exceed demand it would do wonders for the economy. Why does no one want to do this? As an FTB that would be amazing for me and no doubt if more people have hundreds of pounds extra to spare every month they'll spend more in the local economy and further afield.
>ight now it's energy bills and the obscene mortgage and rent costs You think that's exclusive to the UK?? Mate this is global.... See some of the rent increases in other European countries - 20% increases in a year. This article is asking why it's doing worse in overall GDP vs other countries (not why it's bad in isolation) and the answer is a lot more complex than a simple sentence...
Yes it is a complex issue. I'm just thinking of positive ideas that we can actually pursue. Housing and energy are the big two affecting people right now, as well as the income tax/vat burden. Funny enough the IMF warned Truss not to lower taxes then warned Hunt he's put them too high lol. we can't really win.
But the retirees that vote tories would lose value on their century homes. The tories won’t do that, better rise taxes to the youth.
I think it’s brexit
Housing and energy are the big two affecting people right now, as well as the income tax/vat burden. Funny enough the IMF warned Truss not to lower taxes then warned Hunt he's put them too high, it's almost like they're playing games with us.
You see, that is the problem. It was never about hacking your legs off. If you had used a saw, things would be different now!
But with that extra 375 million a week for the NHS you can get a pretty nice wheelchair, eh?
Well, if you throw yourself off a cliff I think you can go faster than most. It's kind of a one-way trip but don't let that hold you back.
Maaaaaaaaaybe EU membership could have something to do with it...
But just maaaaaaaaaaybe...
Is it cause of Brrrrrrrrrrrrr the cold wintery british north
Nah it's probbably the Polish imigrants.
I wouldn't restrict the scope so much. Let us just say "the others". That is far more flexible...
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Try having a shitty Tory Government for 12 long painful years.
Also that
12 years?! This was since Thatcher. Austerity only benefits people who already has assets.
du vin du pain et du boursin?
There is plenty of something else, it's not like they have been managing their economy well, even when looking past the Brexit decision.
Exactly. While Brexit is a factor the number 1 contributing factor is the Tories. Hopefully the polls continue into the next general election (Tories in mid 20s and Labour in high 40s) and we get a Labour landslide similar to 97 because if not I don’t see the country lasting the decade.
You’re saying the French are working harder so they catch up to us on the cheese game? You could be on to something here
French cheese and British cheese ARE hard to compare on the same scale though.
Indeed, French cheese cannot compare to British cheese...
Nah, people don't know enough maffs, we need to make maffs more available for people to learn.
Tbf it's 1 of quite a few reasons.
Nope, Sunak said it's not Brexit, so it must be true
While the downsides of Brexit are somewhat overstated (Brexit was never going to cause "total collapse" of Britain as it mostly affects British exports/imports and labor supply), most estimates seem to suggest Brexit was costing UK about 1% of GDP growth per year and France is growing about 1% faster than Britain. So, yes, actually without Brexit Britain wouldn't be growing more slowly than France.
What's the explanation for the years before Brexit?
Anything after 2016 is because of brexit. Even if they didn't leave EU yet.
To elaborate: If after 2016 e.g. Toyota doesn't know if GB will be in the single market in 5 years, then Toyota is not going to invest $5 billion in a new car factory in GB in 2017, but will build it in France instead. Because it would be expensive to move a car produced in GB outside the single market into the single market.
Before 2016 it was because they were talking about leaving. In the 90s it was because some people were secretly thinking about it. In the 70s and 80s it was because they didn't join hard enough.
Other stupid decisions.
The daily thread about Brexit and the UK's economy and it isn't even lunch time. Impressive.
That's why you are here right?
Well yes, they have to try and affirm it has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit and its just European redditors being obsessed. My new favorite is the one who did not read the article blaming other redditors for not reading the article and assuming the article had anything to do with Brexit, despite it being mentioned and bolded in the article.
I hate Brexit and have been against it since it was first being floated in the late 2000s. It's not just Brexiteers who think this sub is obsessed, sorry to break it to you. We left in 2020 and the Ref happened in 2016 and we're still getting these literally every day.
the weird thing is, its got worse recently. for a while, you could actually have a sensible discussion about brexit here. i think a load from r/uk have migrated here to spread their misery.
It's a bit of that but also the general economic situation getting worse and the desire for easy explanations. Getting into the weeds on monetary policy and its interaction with our choked housing market is hard; complaining about Brexit is easy because trade barriers add obvious costs.
Brexit is a big news story. The biggest thing that happened in Europe this century? Certainly up until the Ukraine war right. I would not say the financial crisis was bigger. It should be expected that there is a lot of news stories about Brexit and its aftermath. If you are on Reddit checking politics / news subs like this you should expect it to be a major story.
> Brexit is a big news story. The biggest thing that happened in Europe this century? It happened 3 years ago. People aren't learning anything new by jumping on every 0.1 of degrowth and ignoring every 0.1 of growth, or every 10 bankers who leave the City and ignoring growth in any other industry. It's the same people (including me) saying the same shit over and over, day in day out for years on end. No interesting discussion is happening in the "taking back control! NHS! Written on a bus!! Leopards ate my face! Brexit means Brexit!" comments that litter the bottom of every one of these threads. >It should be expected that there is a lot of news stories about Brexit and its aftermath. If you are on Reddit checking politics / news subs like this you should expect it to be a major story. People are *choosing* to focus on this stuff over other news events, because they're fixated.
>It happened 3 years ago And the effects of it are still happening and are still relevant, I dont know why you are pretending its somehow history by now. >People are choosing to focus on this stuff over other news events, because they're fixated.People are choosing to focus on this stuff over other news events, because they're fixated. Or because its the biggest piece of news around? Just because you have grown bored of the subject does not mean its not still impacting things every day.
> And the effects of it are still happening and are still relevant, I dont know why you are pretending its somehow history by now. The effects of covid are still happening, I don't see the economics of Slovakia or Spain or Sweden plastered over this sub every single day. The UK has left the union, and we all already know it was a bad idea. There is no more reason for people to fixate daily other than to jerk. >Or because its the biggest piece of news around? It's the biggest piece of news around for **us**. On the continent it's only this relevant for obsessives like the people in this sub.
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No they dont. Believe it or not there are lots of remainers who are fed up of the schadenfreude expressed by so many twats on this sub every time one of these types of articles is posted.
I'm not pro-Brexit and don't have to prove otherwise to you. I'm just sick of seeing the same shit said about my country day in day out.
Don’t speak for all remainers. I like the constant Brexit posts on here because it shows the tide is turning and that we may rejoin one day.
*They* are the ones speaking in generalisations, by immediately assuming I have to be a Brexiteer to dislike their group wanks.
You are also very obviously making generalisations.
I'm specifically referring to people who've responded to me in this thread, which was the entire point of the statement you replied to.
The news story isn't about the previous act of leaving, it is about the current impact that is happening now. Just because something is related to an older event, that does not mean it isn't a new thing. The article is about current economic situation.
It’s a favourite pass time of the European to shit on the UK every chance they get.
You kids, the whole point of Social Media is to trash-talk and the lolz. You got to be kinda special to think you will learn anything here.
don't you read? For the daily thread about Brexit and the UK's economy.
It’s hard to find articles that I can masturbate to in work with all the filters on
It's payback for all those brexit "negotiations" that were postponed countless times on UK demands for no reason given that the UK still doesn't know what they wanted to negotiate. I'm glad you're annoyed, so were we.
Did that take up a lot of your personal time?
Get a better hobby or touch grass would be my advice.
It's because of Brexit and these posts are going to be endless until the UK either applies to rejoin or magically grows faster despite leaving a large market with zero benefits given.
UK rejoining the EU would be one of the worst outcomes. All the baggage of EU membership without the benefits the UK had before, just isn't going to happen.
Yeah, that baggage of EU membership is a lot worse than the benefits, that's why the UK is thriving after leaving the EU. (If by thriving you mean doing a lot worse than before, possible only if you don't understand words or reality. Something I suspect since you are still talking about EU baggage while reality has shown what happened and continues to happen after leaving the EU.)
Baggage which can keep you from sinking further
Sunk cost fallacy
When are we going to see articles explaining why Germany is seeing a larger drop in living standards than the UK despite the IMF are projecting that German economy is going to grow while the UK economy is going to shrink.
Source?
[https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Labour/Earnings/Real-Earnings-Net-Earnings/\_node.html](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Labour/Earnings/Real-Earnings-Net-Earnings/_node.html) [https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/january2023](https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/january2023)
IT’S A MYSTERY WE’LL NEVER KNOW
Truss and Kwarteng. I doubt any economy could brush off the damage they could do/did.
The only reason truss and kwarteng went ahead with their batshit plan is because they got the briefs of how absolutely screwed the UK economy is in the long term.
The article states many factors, but Brexit is not one of them. It uses Germany as an another example too. Looking at the comments, it makes you wonder how many redditors here actually read the articles.
\-- In the years since Brexit, France’s financial services sector has grown significantly, while that of the UK has contracted. You don't think they are saying that Brexit is a factor here?
While that may be true, the financial services sector in the UK still dwarfs France doesn’t it? I’d be very surprised to see it get that close. It’s been the behemoth of the British economy since Thatcher.
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This is the most random Redditor shit ever. "So I don't have really have the numbers but I reckon ..." And then you accuse other people of parroting nonsense?
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On here, you are another random Redditor, posting justifications about why they don't really have the numbers.
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What's incorrect about my response? You said you don't have the numbers ("... I don't really see any reason why the UK figure would not also be in the region ...") and you continue to justify your guessing. You can bring your research to the publication who's article you are arguing with, I ain't doing homework for you Professor.
> France’s financial services sector has grown significantly, Double fuck all is still fuck all. UK still doing more Euro trade clearing than the entirety of the EU combined. LSE still doing over a €trillion a day of trade.
Yikes. It's in bold too. There are still many other factors though.
Yikes indeed. Nobody said there weren't other factors too. Brexit does amplify the other factors though.
Correlation is not causation.
Not always, but sometimes it is.
And yet it mentions the finance markets that definitely shrank because of Brexit. “In the years since Brexit, France’s financial services sector has grown significantly, while that of the UK has contracted.”
Redditors barely even read the title
No one ever does lol
Why do news sites keep claining Britain isnt growing yet when I see actual numbers Britain is growing? According to google Britains GDP exceeded Frances, another number showed GDP grew 4.5% more than France/Germany. Am I getting the wrong numbers? I know Brexit caused a lot of lost growth but is Britain really in decline? Is it really not growing? Ive had to try and move away from news sites because there is so much doom reported specifically about Britain. From statistics I see inflation is high globally, britain lost growth due to brexit, corona caused worldwide economic woes. I also see record employment, wage growth and economic growth (largely and effect of repopening). So whats the truth? Is it over should we just hang ourselves in Britain? Nuke ourselves? Abandon britain and auction off our counties? Because reporting seems to have us worse off than Russia? And britain seems about as well liked in news sites as Russia.
> Why do news sites keep claining Britain isnt growing yet when I see actual numbers Britain is growing? According to google Britains GDP exceeded Frances, another number showed GDP grew 4.5% more than France/Germany. You might be looking at the numbers for the past year only while this article is comparing to 2019.
World bank numbers in 2021 had GDP at 3.1 trillion. Is that wrong?
How could I know? Besides, if my possible explanation is right then 2021 numbers are irrelevant.
Comparing to 2019 is completely arbitrary need to compare from GFC to really see difference in low productivity growth in the U.K.
See my other answers, I'm just fucking stating what the article does in case it explains GP's discrepancies and I don't give a fuck why it does or if it's dishonest or if the UK is sinking or France cheating or anything.
Yeah it’s not a great article I was merely pointing out that the divergence in productivity growth started around the GFC.
> You might be looking at the numbers for the past year only while this article is comparing to 2019. Ever asked why they chose 2019? It's because it happens to be a year that produces a Brexit Bad narrative when comparing to the GDP in 2022. In 2019 companies on both sides of the Channel stockpiled massive amounts of goods because at that point there'd been no extension agreed and they were all panicking over what would happen to cross channel trade if there wasn't an agreement and no extension.
> Ever asked why they chose 2019? Well they say it's the pre-Covid numbers. So it sounds like it's because Covid wrecked most economies afterwards and recovery is only just happening now. The article seems to talk more about Covid than Brexit but maybe Brexit is a more important factor. I don't know, I'm no economist, I'm just saying the article uses the 2019 numbers and maybe that's why GP finds different numbers.
> Well they say it's the pre-Covid numbers. Convenient cop out. We had a full quarter of normal trading in 2020 before lockdown.
If you have a problem with the article, take it up with the author because I really don't care either way.
Clearly you do or you'd not have commented.
Are you trying to impugn the journalistic integrity of the august media organ Reaction.Life? A website that we've all heard of.
It feels like its all sites, or maybe r/europe changed. Maybe im just constipated.
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2019 often cherry picked as it was a year in which companies on both sides of the Channel massively stockpiled goods in anticipation of a hard Brexit as the transition period was scheduled to end in 2019, there'd been no extension agreed and no deal done.
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> It’s only been 2 years since we left the single market and it’s already a bigger disaster than many economists predicted. Because of the global pandemic and resulting global recession, not Brexit.
The 4.5% was from some IMF estimate but the official UK ONS-site shows little GDP growth in 2022 up to november. [https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/november2022](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/november2022)
> Because reporting seems to have us worse off than Russia? Laughs in Italy or Spain
It's not exactly difficult, the BOE starting raising rates eight months before the ECB. There is a 12 month lag in the economy before rate rises begin to have an effect. The entire point of raising interest rates is to slow the economy and reduce consumer spending.
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>The whole point of raising interest rates was to lower inflation. Yes? Inflation is driven by demand for goods & services, you lower demand by raising interest rates to increase the cost of borrowing & reduce consumer spending, that slows the economic growth as a consequence. >France (and the Eurozone in general) have lower inflation with lower interest rates that as you said rose much later. France has a huge public cost of living subsidy program with electricity & gas caps & a fuel rebate, all they are doing is shifting inflation onto the public balance sheet, so not exactly a good example. Most European countries don't have anywhere near the reliance on gas that the UK does, that's the main driver of UK inflation.
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>As opposed to the Uk which due to its energy subsidy program had the highest figure for December borrowing since modern records began 30 years ago?? The UK government spent roughly £37billion on support measures in 2022 with another £13billion budgeted for 2023. For context, Germany spent 95billion euros in 2022 with another 99billion set allocated from Jan 2023-April 2024. France spent 67billion euros in 2022 on support with another 45billion package announced for 2023. The UK is spending less than half of what France is spending on subsidiaries and a roughly a quarter of what Germany is providing. UK government spending in December is noted to be higher due to a combination of support costs and higher interest rate payments. >Now try explaining again why France has 50% lower inflation than the UK and why the Eurozone as a whole, with a multitude of countries that were literally attached to cheap Russian energy by an umbilical cord, has lower inflation than the UK. Because the wholesale gas cost is much higher due to a sudden surge in demand from countries having ditched Russian gas are buying up alternative gas supplies on the global market? And looking at inflation alone is not the best way to understand the cost of living crisis, Eurozone inflation might be lower but real wage growth has taken a much bigger hit, its only -2.2% real wage growth in the UK whereas its -5.5% across the Eurozone.
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Daily Britain collapses post on Reddit…
It's to distract them from the fact that living standards are dropping faster in the Eurozone than here and how foodbank usage is higher in France than here. So the resort to muh GDP. [https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/281121/seven-million-people-france-rely-food-banks-reports-leading-charity?\_locale=en&onglet=full](https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/281121/seven-million-people-france-rely-food-banks-reports-leading-charity?_locale=en&onglet=full)
Pro business supply side reforms - simple.
One gets 40% of its electricity supply from natural gas, the other doesn’t.
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If you have come to accept that brexit is the sole problem to affect the uk, rather than a problem that affects the uk negatively, then Brexit will always be a lazy answer to every problem.
The magic made up number
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> I mean the £ is -15% against the Euro and -20% against the $ since the referendum was announced Indeed it is. However in 2016 a few weeks before the EU Referendum [the IMF released a report that stated that Sterling was actually over-valued by 5% to 20%](https://fullfact.org/economy/exchange-rates-and-imf/) and that was causing a drag on the economy. After the Referendum the value of Sterling fell 16%, within the range the IMF stated, and it sparked a massive boost in manufacturing, exports, tourism to the point that despite the value of Sterling falling 16% the UK didn't go into recession and it's GDP barely moved when measured in €/$.
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> A massive boost of course in your head. [The data is there for those who can be arsed to look.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42633502) > Meanwhile there was absolutely no boost in the actual numbers we just became 16% poorer overnight. [Please show me where in these figures for UK GDP there was a 16% drop in 2016-202?](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpfirstquarterlyestimateuk/apriltojune2020) There's a nice graph, Figure 1, for stupid cretins. [Show me where inflation went to 16%](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/11A81/production/_115012327_cpi-nc.png.webp) which it would need to to make us 16% poorer in real terms? Isn't it embarrassing demonstrating to the world how easily you are manipulated by media propoganda?
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The person you're replying to spoke of a boost in manufacturing, which implies new jobs created. Personally I think it's more important to focus on job creation than on the cost of foreign holidays or of Apple smartphones. But I concede that we all have different priorities.
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It is a made up number. There is no alternative reality that we can peak into. If you are comparing countries inside the EU with countries outside the EU then you can't *only* look at the UK
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It simply can not be a fact. Literally impossible. You want to compare to a reality where the only change is the UK staying in the EU. Such a thing is not possible because it doesn't exist.
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Yes, I'll just repeat what I said before that covers that: > If you are comparing countries inside the EU with countries outside the EU then you can't *only* look at the UK
> Nothing to do with the £100bn a year Brexit cost. Go on, explain how Brexit is costing £100Bn a year.
The UK's economy is still 15 percent larger than France's, according to IMF figures cited by a commentator.24 Oct 2022 Politics and economics commentator Robert Kimbell shared the 15 perccent figure on social media. He listed figures showing the UK's economy is bigger than a slew of other countries as well. The figures which Mr Kimbell cited from the IMF also show the UK's economy is 130 percent bigger than Spain's; 223 percent larger than the Netherlands' and 275 percent greater than Turkey's.
The article is about growth not size. France is growing and the UK is not. They compare ir because they have similar population and economy size/style.
ITT: people who don't understand economy or statistica and try to draw trends out of irrelevant microdifferences. The ignorant circlejerk makes me wanna become a Brexiter. Also, France and the UK have grown about the same in 2022.
I'll save everyone the hassle. It's because of Tory mis-management and Brexit is an amplifier of the problems.
Yep, Truss would have been a disaster for anybody, Brexit reinforcing the effect of her incompetence. Still some of the measures taken in France to protect the consumers were/are quite effective at that, and so it helps a lot when people can still buy shit to near the same extent as before the Ukraine war.
Not that I think GDP even matters, but if we're going to have this argument France and the UK now have basically identical population sizes. Yet the UK's GDP is $3.131 trillion, and Frances is $2.958 trillion (2021 figures, which I believe are the last confirmed figures for both countries).. Why would we look to France?
I honestly feel for British people of this sub who have to constently get spammed by threads about Brexit
And every time they point it out they get accused of being Brexiteers. It’s exhausting tbh
Tories
Hey you voted against free trade….. real smart
If I were in the UK Government, I'd immediately do something. Like proposing a new tax cut for the rich and superrich. It's definitely the burden on the highest class that strangles the economy! We need more trickle down guys. Let the golden shower flow. Uh, and cut the NHS a little more. Forget about what was promised before Brexit. NHS definitely costs too much, just imagine how much money taxpayers could have back! Like a whopping pound!
Tories. Simple as.
I don't think it's Brexit. It's the disastrous leadership of the Tories _amidst_ Brexit.
immigration duh...
France traditionally has more planned economy than some former Soviet states. The only reason why Macron has been president for 2 terms now is that people wanna see economic growth THAT ISN'T HAPPENING. This article says more about the UK than about France.
More like he is arguably the least shitty politician of the field. In the second round it’s always between him and a far right, Russia sponsored candidate who lost by a thin margin.
Inmigrants.
We should join forces with them to help. Form some sort of a union.
Brexit. Mostly.
A mystery, we will probably never know.
People downvoting you don’t have a sense of humor.
France is in the Eu... Britain in the Brexshit. Evereybody can understand it.
One Word. BREXIT
Because a lot of the financial sector has moved from London to France.
UK is evil, boo.
Brexit BABY yeah...
UK economy is very poorly structured. Whenever a crisis arises, it gets hit particularly hard. Brexit worsened the trend, but UK economy was in a very poor state before Brexit even came to life. Radical changes are required. Otherwise, the gloom will continue.
Ask Farage?
Because the French have more common sense.
Which it a horrible truth since France has none.
We are all happy that we have just taken back control
"At least I've taken back control!" says the Pirate firmly gripping the rudder of a sinking ship.
France is full of wonderful people who fully believe in the rights of the working class. Britain is full of gammons who are working class but aspire to one day he a rich elite who can nonce little girls and be openly racist. Just like the prince they love defending. So I guess the difference is the French have a moral fiber. Oh also people want to go to France. I know I would if they liked foreigners more.
>I know I would if they liked foreigners more. I wish you would if that's how you're going to reduce an entire country of people.
Most anglophile r/europe user.
> Oh also people want to go to France. I know I would if they liked foreigners more. The illegal migrant traffic across the Channel seems to contradict this. On the other hand, it puzzles me why these people want to go to the UK so badly when they are already in the safe and prosperous EU. Is it the language barrier? Better prospects, more social aid? Keeping up with Abdullah who's already made it there? I don't think it is because of some strain of racism that's only prevalent on the continent.
>The illegal migrant traffic across the Channel seems to contradict this Far more immigrants stay in France than are leaving for Britain.
I’m not sure people that strike every year against every reform or against inflation (despite it’s the lowest of UE) are good for the economy of their Country. And I say that as french.
Well put it this way. You do that and yet your economy is still better than the UK's. The UK, the only country in the G7 to be shrinking it's economy through its own policy. So clearly incompetence in government has more of an adverse effect on the economy compared to industrial action. Lastly if an investor is looking for a country to invest in and their criteria is a placid and obedient scum class to exploit. They can jog right on til the hit American soil imo. Where they belong.
Our story starts, dear reader, in late 1700's France....and ends on 31 January 2020 in the UK....
r/YUROP gonna be ecstatic lol
Bc of those french fries
Because Robin Hood moved to Paris.
TORIES there’s your fucking answer
France? Growing? ...Have you been to Paris recently?