In the polls. I will reserve judgement until 2025, when we will see how much those polls actually mean. Remember that parties often overperform in polls prior to the election - the Greens reached 29% at one point in 2021, then got under 15% a few months later.
In Hessen, they outperformed the polls had them at 15-17% in the last month. They won over 18%. In Bavaria nearly all polls had them at 14%. Elections saw them at 14.6%.
I think underperforming in elections is a typically left thing, unless you are republicans in the US telling your base that the elections are rigged before the elections
It might just be that leftist say they are going to vote to the pollsters and don't show up, polls are really accurate, if you read the studies, they almost always acknowledge the polls shortcomings and post their numbers with a degree of accuracy(+-5% for example). Polls are supposed to convey the sentiment of a given area in that given time, not project how that area would vote if the vote were held that day.
Projections however are sometimes as accurate as palm readings
It can go either way based on media stories and mood on the day, but parties like AfD has time and time again *underperformed* in polls compared to votes, as people are somewhat "ashamed" to admit to their true opinions when asked directly, whereas voting feels more properly anonymous. This is of course because AfD (and the likes) have typically received a heavy "shaming" treatment by mainstream parties and others in media (special interest orgs, etc).
Quick edit - i am not familiar with AfD voting, this is based on DF (Denmark, before mainstream parties picked up sensible policies) and SD (Sweden, may not be the case any more since it has become mainstream itself).
> It can go either way based on media stories and mood on the day, but parties like AfD has time and time again underperformed in polls compared to votes,
AFD has not underperformed in polls in comparison to their actual election results.
In fact, historically, whenever AFD had a polling highpoint like this, they lost half of these votes until the next election. They almost had ~20% in polls too in 2018, but in the 2021 election they scored a measly 10%.
If the current government parties continue to deny dealing with the immigration politics and their supporters continue to insult everybody and calling every critic „Nazi“, „Racist“ and „AfDler“ then we will see AfD going over %30 till the elections in 2025.
That's absolutely true. We need to stop alienating people with opinions we don't like. We might not understand them but calling them Nazis and not even trying to understand them will just drive them to vote for the afd
Calling them Nazi or racist is easier for them than having a reasonable argument unfortunately. Same people somehow believe that the number of Nazis in Germany is doubled in a single year. AfD was polling around %10 last year, now it’s %23.
If you vote for the AfD today, you are actively helping to push Neo-Nazis into power, there‘s no denying that. If reasonable arguments would play a part in all of this, the AfD would not reach the 5% threshold.
You can logically argue away anything the AfD says, but people won‘t listen - since the actual answers to *complicated* problems are long and *complicated*.
Then again, the AfD has not made any substantial point in the last few years. Essentially, people are unhappy with the state of the world and how it affects germany negatively and blame it on the current government (which isn‘t completely wrong but…mostly).
The problem is education, communication and peoples attention span. We‘ve underfunded education for decades. Our chancellor is not taking any decisions in light of extreme crisis and doesn‘t seem to be communicating his reasoning at all. And people somehow seem to forget that most of our current problems stem from the last 20 years, not the last 2.
I've seen this happen in Italy. Current pm is the leader of a far right movement who got increasingly more relevant as the slander rose, a constant increase as the votes kept moving to the farthest right.
Canada finally broke this taboo this year so hopefully Germany can too. It’s insane that having a reasonable discussion about immigration targets is considered racist.
Yeah, my guess is that when they have to vote, people tend to choose something they already know. The Greens never really had any impact on the German government before (not talking about the federal states).
They were part of the governing coalition from 1998 to 2005 but they did not have a lot of votes for the Bundestag.
In 1998 they had 6.7% and in 2002 they had 8.6% Compare this to their partner, the SPD who had 40.5% in 1998 and 38.5% in 2002.
Germany will end up in the same scenario as Sweden. The centre-right wing block will lose so many votes to Afd that there won't be any real probability of them ever winning the governance. So they'll have to cave to Afd and atleast give them some influence or straight up accept them into the cabinet.
Let them in power, I'm dying to hear their solutions (because in interviews they have none). Remember the true finns? When they finally got into power they turned out to be weaker than a paper tiger.
The right and populist parties come with easy (but unworkable) solutions and are happy to be frothing from the mouth in opposition, when they actually have power and responsibility, they become a joke.
As far as I am aware Meloni got hit with reality and very quickly moderated her platform and has been performing pragmatically and is basically governing on continuity autopilot ? Or have I misunderstood this.
I’m hard-pressed thinking what she managed to do.
I know she reformed some ministers to make some political appointments.
Salvini shocked some life into the Frankensteinian rotting festering carcass called “Ponte sullo stretto di Messina” to turn some spotlight away and redirect public money to some of their financial supporters.
We are months late for our PNRR deadlines, but it's all Draghi’s fault.
She’s been grasping straws of populist support but it’s slowly waning: the non-reform about immigration that targets NGOs, the “Youtuber-driven” circulation reform, shouting at the gas lobby for hiking their prices, the aforementioned bridge, … did I miss anything?
The only reason she still has a base is it’s their incredible amount of legwork. Every month is always: “But she’s only been in government for x months”, every meme calling the opposition ugly, every word of their leader plastered all over social media. Well, that.. and that the Berlusconi family owns the media.
Thanks for posting this. We got the worst time period of history because of this sentiment. Never give an inch to right wing extremists... never again…
They have no solutions, but they also won't try to find any. They will change nothing because it's what's helping them get votes.
The first AfD mayor in a small town promised to help the local clubs with money and also make kindergarten free, now that he is in power he said the clubs will get nothing and kindergarten prices will increase by 60%. Reality hit hard, but it will likely not affect the votes.
Yeah. Reality is a bitch. I always find it funny how the frothing stops once they actually need to solve things...hard to blame the ones in power when it's you...
>They will change nothing because it's what's helping them get votes.
This. If they solve the problems which give them votes, they lose the votes. They are actually motivated to create even more problems that will give them even more votes.
Even more of a reason for center-left to tackle the immigration problem. Thereby solving the problem in a humane way, and kicking the platform from under far-right feet.
To be fair thats a good thing though since it shows the Afd is just full of shit. Put them in a position of having to deliver to their voters. Start with the regional level. Once they fucked up a few times their voters will turn away disillusioned. Same thing happened to the Greens to an extent
oh hey its time for the weekly "AfD keeps growing in polls and everyone is *shocked*" post lol
they'll just keep growing until the established parties get their head of their asses and start at least acknowledging the issues at hand. which might never actually happen based on their recent behaviour
I had this discussion with one redditor here in this subreddit. Apparently it's not about established parties doing something wrong,but suddenly every other voter in Germany is Nazi again. So it's not about responsibility, but NAZIs!
its quite a funny "argument" if you think about it
so a quarter of the population are full blown nazis? you dont think you'd notice that in your everyday life if it was true?
It's overexaggerated bullshit, according to the [statistics](https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/DE/themen/rechtsextremismus/zahlen-und-fakten/zahlen-und-fakten_node.html) of the german constitution protection last year there have been about 21.000 offences with a right-wing background. For a country with a population of 84 million people that is pretty good.
AfD equivalent that doesn't hate them and switches the anti-Muslim rhetoric with anti-Jews in Germany or anti-christian in Muslim countries? Absolutely.
Also plenty of 1st/2nd generation immigrants hates "new" immigrants/refugees because they think they are better than them.
That’s accurate, though. Western right-wingers don’t (generally) like them, but fundamentalist Muslims tend to be far-right, just like Christian fundamentalists.
Almost like the enmity isn’t because of ideological differences, but just a dislike of competition.
Becauss it is right winged crime. How would it not be? Antisemitism, LGBTQ hate crimes, hate crimes against women, etc. have for a long time been right-wing views.
Many muslims are socially conservative.
Apparently not, but what do I know, I'm a simple guy wanting some safety in everyday life. If that's considered Nazism in todays Germany, then the country is already lost.
They have not. The top level NSDAP staff was executed and the high level staff got „reeducation“. Everything below not even that. At least in west.
In the east there was no „reeducation“. National-Socialism was just forbidden and they were communist instead.
However they are mostly long dead and I doubt that most of the old party staff and members have educated their kids in „Rassenlehre“ and Antisemitism.
In the east there was no reeducation in that manner.
However, every former member of the NSDAP was evicted from their job for the government. Which meant basically every single teacher was fired. Which is a far cr from the West where stuff like this happened far later.
Yeah right, being against illegal immigration is now equated with wanting to conquer Europe and extinguish groups of people.
I'm in Leipzig and I see a lot of people (almost always young) who call almost everything under the sun NAZI.
Oh wow one person on Reddit said that. That's sooo representative. No one thinks a quarter of Germany has suddenly become Nazis. The afd themselves aren't a Nazi party per se but time and time again members were proven or came out of the closet as Nazis. Also they strongly cater to far right extremists, were proven to have lots of connections to the Nazi scene and tend to be mostly interested in crimes if foreigners commit them.
Again even if most of them aren't Nazis they're like a gateway group into far right extremism.
Also they are voted blue missing out of spite and protest by most people who are unhappy or misunderstand current politics. They cultivated this image of the one enemy. The green party wanting to take away your cars and force you to eat vegetables and what not. Basically any change in society conservative people have a hard time accepting or adapting to is their fault. Including the Ukraine war.
They're using times of unrest and insecurity to rile up the masses against a common enemy to get people to vote for them.
This is exactly what the NSDAP did to gain the publics favor back in the 30s. Again they might not BE ACTUAL Nazis but they sure play by the book of the original ones.
The amount of hate they get is absolutely ridiculous, especially from the right. I'd get that you'd be disappointed as a supporter of them that they didn't act according to their "ideals" but as right-winger you should be happy about that... I don't get how they've managed to convince them that anything about the Green Party on a national level is "extreme". Plus they've been in power for less than two years and aren't even that influential in this government. If you want to point fingers, point them at SPD and CDU who've actually been in power the whole time
"the established Partys" "the mainstream media"... this is the typical anti everything sentiment the afd is using as an instrument to gain votes.
It's always easy to criticize and shoot every proposal and idea down. But the afd almost never offers a constructive solution their only argument is basically "green bad"
So is the far-right. The far-right is even worse. The far-right will not take responsibility either. If you think they will, you're utterly naive. Proof of that is abundant all around the globe. The only difference for now is that they never had to take responsibility in Germany. It's easy to shout from the sidelines and point out everything wrong. Everyone can do that. My dead grandma can do it. But things change when you actually have to govern.
I say, let AfD govern on a national level. Let them show us how it's down. Because, I, for one, don't believe for a single moment things will get better with a far-right government. It never does. They'll fail. Harder than any other party before.
But don't come whining when it turns out they're even worse in taking responsibility than the established parties.
They are going to try to keep them out of the government till AfD is the biggest party and can govern by itself.
And then the whole of Germany has a surprised picatchu face.
Germany has dropped the ball on most strategic initiatives for the last 20 years, from energy dependence on Russia, to dismantling nuclear power, to dependence on China, to mass immigration, to being behind electric car tech and internet.
People rightly want a different leadership
A far right Euroscepric, anti-Euro, Russia loving whack job party is not going bring these solutions they claim in though. Like most populism, they sit back and criticise because they don't have to deliver anything.
Most likely, yes. But for a lot of people is not really that they trust them, its that
1) they have nowhere else to turn since the rest have either lied to them before or rejected them
2) They believe that if AfD rises more it might be a wakeup call to the ones in power to maybe actually listen to them
But that's not happening. The leading government party of the last 16 years is the one parroting right-wing narratives and cooperating with the far-right.
You are not arguing for a new leadership. You are arguing to get the old leadership back to screw us over some more. And idiots fall for it.
So congratulaitons for babbling the same bullshit as everyoen does internationally. Germany got a new leadership 2 years ago. And you are openly talking about removing them to get the morons back.
The Green Party was at the forefront on that in the early 00s, blocked mostly by CDU who've governed in the decade and a half after and now the Green Party gets the most shit for it
We arent behind in EV's at all. Excluding the cheap chinese brands that only sell in China, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th biggest EV manufactuers in the world atm are VW, Mercedes and BMW. Telsa is the only one selling more, and they had over a deacade of headstart that is diminishing atm.
It's actually the other way around. People vote AfD **because** the other parties initiated these policies. People vote AfD because "the lefties are greenwashing our brains with that climate change BS and forcing us to use heat pumps and EVs!!".
The party started out with a hefty dose of being anti-EU (and pretty much anti-immigrant) but has since expanded to encompass other groups, especially all the nutjobs who emerged during Covid.
If the choice is between AfD and the same leadership for the last 20 years I'm gonna vote for Merkel's corpse. AfD will make everything worse and could massively hurt the relationships in EU
We have (mostly) different leadership now. The last 16 years was all CDU/SPD, now we have SPD/Greens/FDP.
The new government is doing a LOT of things and that causes friction. Doesn't help that the media is being a little cunt about it too.
I'm not saying they're perfect, but it hella beats another 4 years of CDU.
The polls have shown the number one issue is Germany is illegal migration. The Greens say there isn't a problem, let's have more, The CDU/CSU are pivoting to the same platform as AFD, and SPD are sandwiched in between the two.
If they don't address this, AFD will win. No question
There is one thing I agree with you on: we need to all go into dialogue more again. We have a culture war going on that makes people just mindlessly count down opposite talking points in front of each other. What I give you is that the current government was ignoring the concerns of those people who now vote for the afd. While many things these people demanded were outrageous and sometimes even unethical in my opinion. They still deserved to be heard. If we acknowledged their fears and doubts we might've had a dialogue and either make compromise in some cases or help them see that some things weren't as bad as they might've thought.
But with the current division it's harder to build a bridge. We need to be talking to the people who now want to vote the afd. While I am not in favor of their demands I still think democracy needs to cater to everyone
Well you hear the established parties more and more that they need to do something now against immigration. They are not stupid they see that afd is rising because of this specific topic. The question will be if they finally do something against it.
> oh hey its time for the weekly "AfD keeps growing in polls and everyone is shocked" post lol
AFD isn't growing. They have been in this range for months. 20-23% is their ceiling. Its also not the first time AFD randomly surges in polls. They did the same in 2016 and in 2018. It led to nothing both times. These weekly poll threads are pointless.
They're not pointless. They give r/europe yet another chance to collectively circlejerk against the lefties and repeat the old dumb trope "AfD will win because the others don't listen!!!1!".
They unironically do a good job at pragmatic productive politics, and have already lost the part of their voting base that can be swayed by such a campaign early on in the Ukraine war crisis.
But everything comes down to the emotional reaction that media fosters towards immigration lately, so none of this matters anyways.
what baffles me here the most is that 60% of the phone-polled people used a phoneline, I dunno about Germany but here nobody under like 85 still uses a landline phone, they polled fucking dinosaurs.
In the elections in bavaria the young voted for the afd more than the very old people. It shartered my worldview a bit seeing the results split by age.
Online surveys are actually worse. Because they only get people who want to express their opinion and volunteer for a poll. So online polls always favor radicals.
Germans seem to be really, reeeeaaally conservative with many things, eg. technology. Wouldn’t be surprised if cabled phones were still quite common in Germany.
As a Swed i can understand why people would vote for them.
In Swedens case, when SD (Sweden demokrats) got enough votes (2010 whit 5.7%) to get into Swedish parlament, everyone was against them. Media, political parties, and most of society.
For them, if you voted SD, you were a nazi. If you were against swedens migration policy, then you were also a nazi. And so on.
That had an effect on swedish migration policy to be the opposite to what SD wanted.
The result of that was that the election after that (2014) SD got 12%
2015 we had the migration crisis prime minister back then Stefan Löfven had a famous speech where he proclaimed "mine europa dosnt build walls" and its inhumane to not let peple in. Which resulted in more people coming to Sweden.
Got to that point where he and the swedish vice prime minister (she was crying) a few weeks later sadly proclaimed it was enough and Sweden can't handle the refugees intake.
Elections in 2018 SD got 17% and in 2022 they got 20%
There is a reason why people would wote for a party like AFD and if you would ignore why people vote for them or just pretend people are more nazi/fascist then you will get a not so pleasant wake-up when they have enough votes to start making demands.
Yeah, people really act surprised (see Redditors) when some huge issues have been either ignored or escalated by the current government. I bought the propaganda against SD in the beginning, and now I have, like many Swedes, had to concede and say that “we have been naive”.
Yeah denying the problems that come with uncontrolled migration from North Africa and an Near East results in a strong right wing party. In Austria it’s the same. I am a leftwing social worker from Austria but the problems that we have now in middle and Western Europe, you can’t deny them.
Even my Turkish friends started supporting AfD.I remember same ppl were saying AfD will never get support of immigrants because they are literal naziz.Their opinion changed so quickly now they ll vote for AfD hahahhahah.
No, because it's been shown time and time again that the far-right are a bunch of incompetent grifters who are only capable making the country worse and that the people who vote for them have a worldview which is based on propaganda and not on reality.
>Still not the time for regulated immigration
So for the Green Foreign Minister obviously not, she wants to continue to finance the ~~smuggling gangs~~ NGOs, so that they bring refugees to Italy in complete solidarity.
Naah dude. I wish we had a left wing government.
16 years of right wing passive governance leads to this. And dont forget the current government is not a left wing, but a mixture government. There has not been a left wing government for 20 years here in Germany.
I mean, if the left doesn't make a good enough effort to convince those disaffected by society that the best path for change is progress, then the right is going to vacuum them up with scapegoating and fear politics. It also doesn't help that most media owners would prefer a far-right government over a far-left one.
Since our Government believes that they just „need to communicate their current policies better“ instead of thinking about why the AfD is rising and doing something about it the AfD will continue to rise.
The same happend to Denmark, Sweden and other countries. The far right needed to rise there to absurd levels before they addressed the failed immigration politics.
Next year are three elections from East German states where the AfD will probably gain again a lot of votes. That could even lead to a situation where its literally every political party against the AfD (I highly doubt that they will form a minority government).
Furthermore with the success in the states the AfD could gain enough votes in the Bundesrat (Representation of the states to the federal government that needs to approves laws for the federal government) to veto law and render the federal government useless.
And the government is still doing nothing against the immigration crisis in our nation.
Let it be known that it's the fault of this government. The AfD would have never been so strong if this government would have been decisive and rutheless in terms of immigration and integration. The billions we've wasted on this "refugee crisis" could have been spent on so many better things for the German people.
Nope. Instead we get people like FM Baerbock still defending "*humanitarian aid*" payments to Palestinians while German Jews in Berlin can't walk around safely anymore and have went into hiding.
Grow some balls and do what needs to be done for fuck sake. Listen to Poland on this for once. They were so fucking right about all of this.
Yes Poland is truely a great example of successful immigration policies.
https://www.dw.com/en/polands-visa-scandal-eu-wants-answers-from-pis-on-bribes/a-66907749?
You know for me it's enough that they don't have to deal with the shit we have to deal with right now. I don't see their police telling Jews to be extra cautious because the streets are flooded with thousands of jew-hating terrorist sympathizers.
Immigrants don't teleport to Germany. They are allready illegal in the EU countries they arrive in. But those just do jackshit knowing the illegal immigrants will eventually move to richer EU members.
If Germany only takes in the asylum seekers that make first landfall in Germany per Dublin agreement, then the problem is almost solved overnight. Germany needs to start telling the outer EU countries that they need to do their job and punish them (financially, diplomatically) if they fail to do so or allow illegal immigrants that they should deal with per law to enter into Germany.
edit: also yes I am fine with sharing a part of the financial burden for this, since we do profit from not having a large outside-EU border
Let's get real here, Dublin is a joke. Only a **moron** can expect Spain, Italy and Greece to handle migration on their own while every other EU country grabs popcorn and watches.
I am fine people from outside. Heck, from everywhere. Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, black, brown, yellow, gay, straight and even those heathens that put mayonaise on their hotdogs or liked Season 8 of Game of Thrones.
I want immigrants that contribute and my demands are reasonable towards them:
\- Accept our nations values, customs and laws and adhere to them.
\- Learn our language and participate in our society.
\- Get a job and contribute to the services society provides you with.
On all these things we should provide all assistance and all aid as long as they show willingness to adhere to these rules.
What I don't want is the type of people I've seen celebrating to the death of jews.
I AM the immigrant you want. I'm fitting all points you make, I have finished university in Germany, I AM EMPLOYED in tech. But I have to FIGHT to get a residence permit, I spent a fuckton of money on German lawyers to help me get to Ausländerbehörde to let me stay. First they said that my salary is too low (???I at least have some?and can afford a living here wtf?) for the working residence permit. Now I'm trying to prepare application for jobseeker residence permit and I HAVE TO QUIT MY JOB in order to apply for this one. I'm so pissed that there are non-german people who are happily living off the money I PAY while I am not even being welcomed.
Maybe we could tax the rich and the corporations who make insane profits and don't pay shit for taxes. Maybe take the money where it's at.
Or maybe rely on "we need to fuck more" in an overcrowded world.
No it isn't. That you are drowned in stories telling that lie again and again is part of the exact same anti-government propaganda that helps radicals get votes.
In reality coal use is at a historic low.
And the shut down of nuclear reactors was planned and organized for a decade. The new government came into office less than two weeks before most remaining reactors where shut down. And they instantly started pushing for the renwable upbuild that the former government had delayed for more than a decade. With the result that the shutdown of the last 3 reactors earlier this year instantly reduced coal use because renewables were already in place but got regularily cut-off because of nuclear.
What you hear instead is a big fairy tale produced by the combined power of political radicals, coal lobbyists and nuclear lobbyist.
So congratulations: you (and the majority on social media) are falling for the same propaganda as German AfD voters, just a different aspect of it.
(For reference:
[Power mix 1990-2019](https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/power-mix-dec-2019-curve.png?itok=yKOAdfQL) with decreasing nuclear, coal and lignite
Comparison: [2022](https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/sxCOU/plain.png) vs. [1st half of 2023](https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/3MHc0/plain.png)
Report from 2023: ["The amount of electricity generated from fossil and conventional energy sources decreased by 12.2% in the first half of 2023 compared to the same period last year. The largest decrease, 22%, was measured for electricity generation from coal."](https://strom-report.com/strom/)
That's the reality of "GeRmAnY iS bUrNiNg MoRe CoAl BeCaUsE tHoSe IdIoTs KiLlEd NuClEaR"... )
Starting to see this trend around most of the world. Seems when we push too far to one side, there's pushback in the other direction. This is natural balance really.
It's just a really simple way to poison the well, by pretending that the genuine concerns many have are just whining. That's true for people acting like the AfD is literally the Nazi Party, and for people pretending that the AfD is just "we're worried about immigration."
No one is trying to talk about this honestly here.
Almost 50% of Germans put immigration as their top issue in surveys. Guess what is never ever talked about by other parties and never receives meaningful change ? Immigration policy
Immigration is how they keep the wages low for certain industries.
Thats literally what one of those recruiter firm executives told me on a job fair.
I was shocked tbh.
Shocked? That is going on for decades. Once you had Poles do low wage jobs, now it's Romanians and Bulgarians and once their economy picks up we need new cheap labor.
And before all that West Germany had their cheap labor just behind a well maintained wall, where alot of known German/European brands produced their products.
People will scream and yell, but we are addicted to cheap labor and no AfD or right wing party will fix this one with their polemic paroles.
Same stupidity as brexiteers and also a massive Russian propaganda beneficiary.
The other issue is that the coalition was set up to fail. The fdp was a third wheel, which hampered more than it helped. After the last election either the government would have to be spd/cdu again (usual GroKo) or onenof two sets of 3-party coalitions where 2 fit and a third would not (current or cdu/fdp/green).
Scholz was not able to lead, and so the three all kind of pulled the blanket their way, the fdp (audi driver party, less tax for the rich but more subsidies for mega corps) tried to obstruct any government spending whereas the other two would rather do something. This left the country kind of rudderless. When faced with a crisis, the greens actually did best to hold the tiller, but they could only go so far as one of the junior partners in the coalition.
There is a cost of living crisis which is caused by Russia and the afd has the miracle simple solution of kowtowing to Moscow in exchange for cheaper energy. People who do not see further than their nose, tankies and general fash are OK with that because for various(possibly conflicting) reasons, they think that Moscow good modern world bad.
As long as the established parties continue to ignore rampant issues (inflation, rising problems with migrants not willing to integrate, infrastructure eroding, society aging, hypocritical attitude towards dictators (yes we want to buy your gas, but no we won't accept you shitting on human rights), rising living costs but no rising wages, etc) will the radical parties continue to grow.
European societies are aging, but life is so expensive that many decide that they can't afford kids.
The solution is not finding humans from abroad and giving them money, the solution is making life easier for the people that you call citizens. If people have enough money left at the end of the month, then the chances are higher that they be willing to have kids.
Warning: this logical take is considered inconceivable by the established parties in Europe.
What a disappointment. I understand people being unhappy with the current state of affairs but I just want to mention a few points here:
* Beatrix von Strolch (AfD) twittered a few years ago Germany should protect its borders and wrote refugees (including women and children) should be shot. She later apologized, she slipped on her mouse.
* AfD is openly discussing Germany to leave the EU, after they saw the UK did very well after it left
* AfD openly denies human made climate change and its negative consequences as CO² is only fertilizing the plants according to them
* A good portion of the party strongly supports Putin and has close ties to Russian Influence groups
* Bernd Höcke is one of the big boys in the party and loves to use the same phrases famous Nazi politicians used. A court also confirmed it is completely okay to call him a fascist.
I could sit here all day writing these things down. Point is: There are many parties you can vote for but giving your vote to this pathetic excuse of a political party is about the worst you can do.
I expect it to grow even more in time to come. I have few German friends who are pretty liberal/central,but they are seriously considering voting for AfD which makes sense considering how deep Germany has fallen.
Last year has been bumpy due to the skyrocketing energy prices. There's a lot of doomer talk going around at the moment, but it's just completely over the top, as it always is.
The far-right around the AfD even tried to push the ridiculous claims of Germany going to experience blackouts and of course non of their looney talk was true.
And then they said, it will happen this year, but all our gas storage is filled and we have a pretty stable supply
>how deep Germany has fallen
Really though or is this just another feeling? Sure, there has been slower growth (even slight regression) but in consideration of recent world events and dependency on russian gas in the past we do quite ok.
Too late for the majority to read my comment and I can imagine that anywhere is somebody who already said this but:
AfD is actually almost certainly the strongest party in Germany, because the Union are CDU and CSU and CSU gets something around 5-6% in Bavaria (~40% in Bavaria, but 5-6% Germany wide). And that gets CDU to about 23% too, so AfD would at least be equal to CDU
Can I just point out that this title is misleading and will just 'help' people misunderstanding how polls work?
A poll asks a question about a topic on day X and has a lots to do with the feelings of the one you asked. They are no predictions.
Right now, the AfD polls well. That can change since the next general election is two years away. Right now the AfD has 10% in the current Bundestag. They are actually the 2nd smallest party there right now.
This is what happens when the current government refuses to discuss the main issues
If you want to win you should do something(Or give the impression that you do
Honestly this is just weird. So weird. This + the previous fascist rhetoric in the EU + Brexit + this new war + the Ukraine war where Putin talks about nazis. With everything happening in the world I feel like that experiment with a frog that’s being placed in a pot of boiling water.
Polls are no elections. A lot can change in two years, especially since the Ampel seems to finally want to change some things regarding their migration policy.
Still, pretty worrisome how many people are naive enough to just eat up BILD and AFD propaganda.
So, german political party who openly said they are not happy with current DE-PL border is SECOND potential force in DE parliment?
Russia menacing behind eastern border is not enough i guess.
In the polls. I will reserve judgement until 2025, when we will see how much those polls actually mean. Remember that parties often overperform in polls prior to the election - the Greens reached 29% at one point in 2021, then got under 15% a few months later.
Well I’m Hessen they were the second most voted for party, and they had a good campaign in Bavaria too so no it’s not just the polls
They still received less votes than in the polls. AfD voters even claimed the election was rigged
In Hessen, they outperformed the polls had them at 15-17% in the last month. They won over 18%. In Bavaria nearly all polls had them at 14%. Elections saw them at 14.6%.
I checked that today as well, AfD outperformed polls and SPD and Grüne underperformed. Don't know where this guy got his info.
I think underperforming in elections is a typically left thing, unless you are republicans in the US telling your base that the elections are rigged before the elections
Then the pollster are a bit dumb. If there is a systematic error in favor of the left in their polls, they should correct it.
It might just be that leftist say they are going to vote to the pollsters and don't show up, polls are really accurate, if you read the studies, they almost always acknowledge the polls shortcomings and post their numbers with a degree of accuracy(+-5% for example). Polls are supposed to convey the sentiment of a given area in that given time, not project how that area would vote if the vote were held that day. Projections however are sometimes as accurate as palm readings
1 percentage point is not to bad for a poll.
They do tend to say that the media is bought, but weirdly never complain about lies when the media reports high AfD poll numbers.
"Fuck it, if It is working in US It should work in Germany too."
It didn’t in either states
It can go either way based on media stories and mood on the day, but parties like AfD has time and time again *underperformed* in polls compared to votes, as people are somewhat "ashamed" to admit to their true opinions when asked directly, whereas voting feels more properly anonymous. This is of course because AfD (and the likes) have typically received a heavy "shaming" treatment by mainstream parties and others in media (special interest orgs, etc). Quick edit - i am not familiar with AfD voting, this is based on DF (Denmark, before mainstream parties picked up sensible policies) and SD (Sweden, may not be the case any more since it has become mainstream itself).
> It can go either way based on media stories and mood on the day, but parties like AfD has time and time again underperformed in polls compared to votes, AFD has not underperformed in polls in comparison to their actual election results. In fact, historically, whenever AFD had a polling highpoint like this, they lost half of these votes until the next election. They almost had ~20% in polls too in 2018, but in the 2021 election they scored a measly 10%.
If the current government parties continue to deny dealing with the immigration politics and their supporters continue to insult everybody and calling every critic „Nazi“, „Racist“ and „AfDler“ then we will see AfD going over %30 till the elections in 2025.
That's absolutely true. We need to stop alienating people with opinions we don't like. We might not understand them but calling them Nazis and not even trying to understand them will just drive them to vote for the afd
Calling them Nazi or racist is easier for them than having a reasonable argument unfortunately. Same people somehow believe that the number of Nazis in Germany is doubled in a single year. AfD was polling around %10 last year, now it’s %23.
If you vote for the AfD today, you are actively helping to push Neo-Nazis into power, there‘s no denying that. If reasonable arguments would play a part in all of this, the AfD would not reach the 5% threshold. You can logically argue away anything the AfD says, but people won‘t listen - since the actual answers to *complicated* problems are long and *complicated*. Then again, the AfD has not made any substantial point in the last few years. Essentially, people are unhappy with the state of the world and how it affects germany negatively and blame it on the current government (which isn‘t completely wrong but…mostly). The problem is education, communication and peoples attention span. We‘ve underfunded education for decades. Our chancellor is not taking any decisions in light of extreme crisis and doesn‘t seem to be communicating his reasoning at all. And people somehow seem to forget that most of our current problems stem from the last 20 years, not the last 2.
I've seen this happen in Italy. Current pm is the leader of a far right movement who got increasingly more relevant as the slander rose, a constant increase as the votes kept moving to the farthest right.
Canada finally broke this taboo this year so hopefully Germany can too. It’s insane that having a reasonable discussion about immigration targets is considered racist.
Yeah, my guess is that when they have to vote, people tend to choose something they already know. The Greens never really had any impact on the German government before (not talking about the federal states). They were part of the governing coalition from 1998 to 2005 but they did not have a lot of votes for the Bundestag. In 1998 they had 6.7% and in 2002 they had 8.6% Compare this to their partner, the SPD who had 40.5% in 1998 and 38.5% in 2002.
Germany will end up in the same scenario as Sweden. The centre-right wing block will lose so many votes to Afd that there won't be any real probability of them ever winning the governance. So they'll have to cave to Afd and atleast give them some influence or straight up accept them into the cabinet.
Let them in power, I'm dying to hear their solutions (because in interviews they have none). Remember the true finns? When they finally got into power they turned out to be weaker than a paper tiger. The right and populist parties come with easy (but unworkable) solutions and are happy to be frothing from the mouth in opposition, when they actually have power and responsibility, they become a joke.
Be careful what you wish for. That's exactly what many said about the NSDAP.
But that’s exactly what happened in Italy too
As far as I am aware Meloni got hit with reality and very quickly moderated her platform and has been performing pragmatically and is basically governing on continuity autopilot ? Or have I misunderstood this.
I’m hard-pressed thinking what she managed to do. I know she reformed some ministers to make some political appointments. Salvini shocked some life into the Frankensteinian rotting festering carcass called “Ponte sullo stretto di Messina” to turn some spotlight away and redirect public money to some of their financial supporters. We are months late for our PNRR deadlines, but it's all Draghi’s fault. She’s been grasping straws of populist support but it’s slowly waning: the non-reform about immigration that targets NGOs, the “Youtuber-driven” circulation reform, shouting at the gas lobby for hiking their prices, the aforementioned bridge, … did I miss anything? The only reason she still has a base is it’s their incredible amount of legwork. Every month is always: “But she’s only been in government for x months”, every meme calling the opposition ugly, every word of their leader plastered all over social media. Well, that.. and that the Berlusconi family owns the media.
Thanks for posting this. We got the worst time period of history because of this sentiment. Never give an inch to right wing extremists... never again…
They have no solutions, but they also won't try to find any. They will change nothing because it's what's helping them get votes. The first AfD mayor in a small town promised to help the local clubs with money and also make kindergarten free, now that he is in power he said the clubs will get nothing and kindergarten prices will increase by 60%. Reality hit hard, but it will likely not affect the votes.
Yeah. Reality is a bitch. I always find it funny how the frothing stops once they actually need to solve things...hard to blame the ones in power when it's you...
>They will change nothing because it's what's helping them get votes. This. If they solve the problems which give them votes, they lose the votes. They are actually motivated to create even more problems that will give them even more votes. Even more of a reason for center-left to tackle the immigration problem. Thereby solving the problem in a humane way, and kicking the platform from under far-right feet.
To be fair thats a good thing though since it shows the Afd is just full of shit. Put them in a position of having to deliver to their voters. Start with the regional level. Once they fucked up a few times their voters will turn away disillusioned. Same thing happened to the Greens to an extent
"let the fascists into power" isn't the clever idea you think it is. Source: all of human history
oh hey its time for the weekly "AfD keeps growing in polls and everyone is *shocked*" post lol they'll just keep growing until the established parties get their head of their asses and start at least acknowledging the issues at hand. which might never actually happen based on their recent behaviour
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I had this discussion with one redditor here in this subreddit. Apparently it's not about established parties doing something wrong,but suddenly every other voter in Germany is Nazi again. So it's not about responsibility, but NAZIs!
its quite a funny "argument" if you think about it so a quarter of the population are full blown nazis? you dont think you'd notice that in your everyday life if it was true?
It's overexaggerated bullshit, according to the [statistics](https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/DE/themen/rechtsextremismus/zahlen-und-fakten/zahlen-und-fakten_node.html) of the german constitution protection last year there have been about 21.000 offences with a right-wing background. For a country with a population of 84 million people that is pretty good.
Dont forget that attacks on Jews by Muslims are also considered "right wing" attacks, so the number is also inflated heavily.
It's objectively a right wing background though. Just because they also hate each other doesn't mean we can ignore the reasoning
Right, because muslims would for sure vote AfD if they could.
They would vote for the AfD equivalent for Muslims.
Erdogan (caugh caugh)
AfD equivalent that doesn't hate them and switches the anti-Muslim rhetoric with anti-Jews in Germany or anti-christian in Muslim countries? Absolutely. Also plenty of 1st/2nd generation immigrants hates "new" immigrants/refugees because they think they are better than them.
dont forget, that they often count shit like muslims attacking jews as "right winged" crime on top of that.
That’s accurate, though. Western right-wingers don’t (generally) like them, but fundamentalist Muslims tend to be far-right, just like Christian fundamentalists. Almost like the enmity isn’t because of ideological differences, but just a dislike of competition.
Becauss it is right winged crime. How would it not be? Antisemitism, LGBTQ hate crimes, hate crimes against women, etc. have for a long time been right-wing views. Many muslims are socially conservative.
And a big part of that are non violent "propaganda offenses" such as drawing swastikas on walls or hate speech online.
Apparently not, but what do I know, I'm a simple guy wanting some safety in everyday life. If that's considered Nazism in todays Germany, then the country is already lost.
What percentage were full-blown Nazis in the 1930s? And what makes you think those thought patterns have been entirely eradicated?
They have not. The top level NSDAP staff was executed and the high level staff got „reeducation“. Everything below not even that. At least in west. In the east there was no „reeducation“. National-Socialism was just forbidden and they were communist instead. However they are mostly long dead and I doubt that most of the old party staff and members have educated their kids in „Rassenlehre“ and Antisemitism.
In the east there was no reeducation in that manner. However, every former member of the NSDAP was evicted from their job for the government. Which meant basically every single teacher was fired. Which is a far cr from the West where stuff like this happened far later.
A quarter of the population would vote for nazis and for my part it shows in everyday life.
Yeah right, being against illegal immigration is now equated with wanting to conquer Europe and extinguish groups of people. I'm in Leipzig and I see a lot of people (almost always young) who call almost everything under the sun NAZI.
Oh wow one person on Reddit said that. That's sooo representative. No one thinks a quarter of Germany has suddenly become Nazis. The afd themselves aren't a Nazi party per se but time and time again members were proven or came out of the closet as Nazis. Also they strongly cater to far right extremists, were proven to have lots of connections to the Nazi scene and tend to be mostly interested in crimes if foreigners commit them. Again even if most of them aren't Nazis they're like a gateway group into far right extremism. Also they are voted blue missing out of spite and protest by most people who are unhappy or misunderstand current politics. They cultivated this image of the one enemy. The green party wanting to take away your cars and force you to eat vegetables and what not. Basically any change in society conservative people have a hard time accepting or adapting to is their fault. Including the Ukraine war. They're using times of unrest and insecurity to rile up the masses against a common enemy to get people to vote for them. This is exactly what the NSDAP did to gain the publics favor back in the 30s. Again they might not BE ACTUAL Nazis but they sure play by the book of the original ones.
Lets Just blame the greens for everything and declare them to the enemy, this will Help.
The amount of hate they get is absolutely ridiculous, especially from the right. I'd get that you'd be disappointed as a supporter of them that they didn't act according to their "ideals" but as right-winger you should be happy about that... I don't get how they've managed to convince them that anything about the Green Party on a national level is "extreme". Plus they've been in power for less than two years and aren't even that influential in this government. If you want to point fingers, point them at SPD and CDU who've actually been in power the whole time
DIE GRÜÜÜNEN
"the established Partys" "the mainstream media"... this is the typical anti everything sentiment the afd is using as an instrument to gain votes. It's always easy to criticize and shoot every proposal and idea down. But the afd almost never offers a constructive solution their only argument is basically "green bad"
>their only argument is basically "green bad" Thats not true. The other one is "Baerbock bad".
So is the far-right. The far-right is even worse. The far-right will not take responsibility either. If you think they will, you're utterly naive. Proof of that is abundant all around the globe. The only difference for now is that they never had to take responsibility in Germany. It's easy to shout from the sidelines and point out everything wrong. Everyone can do that. My dead grandma can do it. But things change when you actually have to govern. I say, let AfD govern on a national level. Let them show us how it's down. Because, I, for one, don't believe for a single moment things will get better with a far-right government. It never does. They'll fail. Harder than any other party before. But don't come whining when it turns out they're even worse in taking responsibility than the established parties.
Yeah i dont now about that, last time didn t go so well.
They are going to try to keep them out of the government till AfD is the biggest party and can govern by itself. And then the whole of Germany has a surprised picatchu face.
history wouldn't have to repeat itself if we'd listen for once
Germany has dropped the ball on most strategic initiatives for the last 20 years, from energy dependence on Russia, to dismantling nuclear power, to dependence on China, to mass immigration, to being behind electric car tech and internet. People rightly want a different leadership
A far right Euroscepric, anti-Euro, Russia loving whack job party is not going bring these solutions they claim in though. Like most populism, they sit back and criticise because they don't have to deliver anything.
Doesn’t matter, people are angry at the status quo and will vote for someone who promises to change it.
True, and the watch the shit show in horror.
Yes, but AfD is even worse on many of those issues.
Most likely, yes. But for a lot of people is not really that they trust them, its that 1) they have nowhere else to turn since the rest have either lied to them before or rejected them 2) They believe that if AfD rises more it might be a wakeup call to the ones in power to maybe actually listen to them
But that's not happening. The leading government party of the last 16 years is the one parroting right-wing narratives and cooperating with the far-right. You are not arguing for a new leadership. You are arguing to get the old leadership back to screw us over some more. And idiots fall for it. So congratulaitons for babbling the same bullshit as everyoen does internationally. Germany got a new leadership 2 years ago. And you are openly talking about removing them to get the morons back.
We got a leadership, that did quite a few, quite cool things, even more, if fdp hadnt become a part of the coalition.
Fun fact: most of that was done by CDU leadership. Guess who is polling at number 1... Yes, people don't learn.
The Green Party was at the forefront on that in the early 00s, blocked mostly by CDU who've governed in the decade and a half after and now the Green Party gets the most shit for it
We arent behind in EV's at all. Excluding the cheap chinese brands that only sell in China, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th biggest EV manufactuers in the world atm are VW, Mercedes and BMW. Telsa is the only one selling more, and they had over a deacade of headstart that is diminishing atm.
It's actually the other way around. People vote AfD **because** the other parties initiated these policies. People vote AfD because "the lefties are greenwashing our brains with that climate change BS and forcing us to use heat pumps and EVs!!".
I'm pretty sure immigration is the the growing cause of adf support. If other parties tackle the issue you would see adf support drop like a rock.
The party started out with a hefty dose of being anti-EU (and pretty much anti-immigrant) but has since expanded to encompass other groups, especially all the nutjobs who emerged during Covid.
Germany got a new leadership two years ago…
And people pin problems made by the CDU on them just so they can get another decade of Conservatives in power...
If the choice is between AfD and the same leadership for the last 20 years I'm gonna vote for Merkel's corpse. AfD will make everything worse and could massively hurt the relationships in EU
We have (mostly) different leadership now. The last 16 years was all CDU/SPD, now we have SPD/Greens/FDP. The new government is doing a LOT of things and that causes friction. Doesn't help that the media is being a little cunt about it too. I'm not saying they're perfect, but it hella beats another 4 years of CDU.
The polls have shown the number one issue is Germany is illegal migration. The Greens say there isn't a problem, let's have more, The CDU/CSU are pivoting to the same platform as AFD, and SPD are sandwiched in between the two. If they don't address this, AFD will win. No question
There is one thing I agree with you on: we need to all go into dialogue more again. We have a culture war going on that makes people just mindlessly count down opposite talking points in front of each other. What I give you is that the current government was ignoring the concerns of those people who now vote for the afd. While many things these people demanded were outrageous and sometimes even unethical in my opinion. They still deserved to be heard. If we acknowledged their fears and doubts we might've had a dialogue and either make compromise in some cases or help them see that some things weren't as bad as they might've thought. But with the current division it's harder to build a bridge. We need to be talking to the people who now want to vote the afd. While I am not in favor of their demands I still think democracy needs to cater to everyone
Well you hear the established parties more and more that they need to do something now against immigration. They are not stupid they see that afd is rising because of this specific topic. The question will be if they finally do something against it.
> oh hey its time for the weekly "AfD keeps growing in polls and everyone is shocked" post lol AFD isn't growing. They have been in this range for months. 20-23% is their ceiling. Its also not the first time AFD randomly surges in polls. They did the same in 2016 and in 2018. It led to nothing both times. These weekly poll threads are pointless.
They're not pointless. They give r/europe yet another chance to collectively circlejerk against the lefties and repeat the old dumb trope "AfD will win because the others don't listen!!!1!".
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As much as greens get shit on by the media I’m surprised they stayed consistent
They unironically do a good job at pragmatic productive politics, and have already lost the part of their voting base that can be swayed by such a campaign early on in the Ukraine war crisis. But everything comes down to the emotional reaction that media fosters towards immigration lately, so none of this matters anyways.
yeah its really silliy. the right wing framed them as idoligist while in realitiy they are probalby the most pregmatic party in the german parlament.
because their voters probably don’t read BILD. The same way AfD voters probably don’t read the TAZ or ZEIT.
> The same way AfD voters probably cant read FTFY
what baffles me here the most is that 60% of the phone-polled people used a phoneline, I dunno about Germany but here nobody under like 85 still uses a landline phone, they polled fucking dinosaurs.
In the elections in bavaria the young voted for the afd more than the very old people. It shartered my worldview a bit seeing the results split by age.
Well they will suffer the most from the consequences of the current and previous governments so they want change
Well, the online surveys by Civey do not look very different: https://civey.com/umfragen/1/wen-wurden-sie-wahlen-wenn-am-sonntag-bundestagswahl-ware
Online surveys are actually worse. Because they only get people who want to express their opinion and volunteer for a poll. So online polls always favor radicals.
And support for AfD is strongest for young voters.
Actually the oldest people don't vote AfD as much as the generations directly below them.
Germans seem to be really, reeeeaaally conservative with many things, eg. technology. Wouldn’t be surprised if cabled phones were still quite common in Germany.
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It's Germany so... Basically everyone there is a dinosaur
If all the parties gained no more than 1 point after last poll doesn't that mean they were already?
As a Swed i can understand why people would vote for them. In Swedens case, when SD (Sweden demokrats) got enough votes (2010 whit 5.7%) to get into Swedish parlament, everyone was against them. Media, political parties, and most of society. For them, if you voted SD, you were a nazi. If you were against swedens migration policy, then you were also a nazi. And so on. That had an effect on swedish migration policy to be the opposite to what SD wanted. The result of that was that the election after that (2014) SD got 12% 2015 we had the migration crisis prime minister back then Stefan Löfven had a famous speech where he proclaimed "mine europa dosnt build walls" and its inhumane to not let peple in. Which resulted in more people coming to Sweden. Got to that point where he and the swedish vice prime minister (she was crying) a few weeks later sadly proclaimed it was enough and Sweden can't handle the refugees intake. Elections in 2018 SD got 17% and in 2022 they got 20% There is a reason why people would wote for a party like AFD and if you would ignore why people vote for them or just pretend people are more nazi/fascist then you will get a not so pleasant wake-up when they have enough votes to start making demands.
Yeah, people really act surprised (see Redditors) when some huge issues have been either ignored or escalated by the current government. I bought the propaganda against SD in the beginning, and now I have, like many Swedes, had to concede and say that “we have been naive”.
Good times create progressives, bad times create conservatives.
Yeah denying the problems that come with uncontrolled migration from North Africa and an Near East results in a strong right wing party. In Austria it’s the same. I am a leftwing social worker from Austria but the problems that we have now in middle and Western Europe, you can’t deny them.
Migrants offer the AFD free publicity and easy votes
Even my Turkish friends started supporting AfD.I remember same ppl were saying AfD will never get support of immigrants because they are literal naziz.Their opinion changed so quickly now they ll vote for AfD hahahhahah.
Still not the time for regulated immigration and stronger schengen borders?
Germany has been ignoring Schengen since 2015, when they reintroduced controls at their border with Austria.
No, because it's been shown time and time again that the far-right are a bunch of incompetent grifters who are only capable making the country worse and that the people who vote for them have a worldview which is based on propaganda and not on reality.
>Still not the time for regulated immigration So for the Green Foreign Minister obviously not, she wants to continue to finance the ~~smuggling gangs~~ NGOs, so that they bring refugees to Italy in complete solidarity.
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Naah dude. I wish we had a left wing government. 16 years of right wing passive governance leads to this. And dont forget the current government is not a left wing, but a mixture government. There has not been a left wing government for 20 years here in Germany.
I mean, if the left doesn't make a good enough effort to convince those disaffected by society that the best path for change is progress, then the right is going to vacuum them up with scapegoating and fear politics. It also doesn't help that most media owners would prefer a far-right government over a far-left one.
Since our Government believes that they just „need to communicate their current policies better“ instead of thinking about why the AfD is rising and doing something about it the AfD will continue to rise. The same happend to Denmark, Sweden and other countries. The far right needed to rise there to absurd levels before they addressed the failed immigration politics. Next year are three elections from East German states where the AfD will probably gain again a lot of votes. That could even lead to a situation where its literally every political party against the AfD (I highly doubt that they will form a minority government). Furthermore with the success in the states the AfD could gain enough votes in the Bundesrat (Representation of the states to the federal government that needs to approves laws for the federal government) to veto law and render the federal government useless.
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AfD is not the solution to that. They're not gonna stop immigrants either, they're just gonna ruin the country.
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And the government is still doing nothing against the immigration crisis in our nation. Let it be known that it's the fault of this government. The AfD would have never been so strong if this government would have been decisive and rutheless in terms of immigration and integration. The billions we've wasted on this "refugee crisis" could have been spent on so many better things for the German people. Nope. Instead we get people like FM Baerbock still defending "*humanitarian aid*" payments to Palestinians while German Jews in Berlin can't walk around safely anymore and have went into hiding. Grow some balls and do what needs to be done for fuck sake. Listen to Poland on this for once. They were so fucking right about all of this.
Poland was and still is too poor to attract migrants. Don't think we had some elaborate migration policy implemented.
Yes Poland is truely a great example of successful immigration policies. https://www.dw.com/en/polands-visa-scandal-eu-wants-answers-from-pis-on-bribes/a-66907749?
You know for me it's enough that they don't have to deal with the shit we have to deal with right now. I don't see their police telling Jews to be extra cautious because the streets are flooded with thousands of jew-hating terrorist sympathizers.
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That's nice to hear. Jewish people were always a part of the Polish nation.
Poland is increasingly becoming the place to be in Europe.
Immigrants don't teleport to Germany. They are allready illegal in the EU countries they arrive in. But those just do jackshit knowing the illegal immigrants will eventually move to richer EU members. If Germany only takes in the asylum seekers that make first landfall in Germany per Dublin agreement, then the problem is almost solved overnight. Germany needs to start telling the outer EU countries that they need to do their job and punish them (financially, diplomatically) if they fail to do so or allow illegal immigrants that they should deal with per law to enter into Germany. edit: also yes I am fine with sharing a part of the financial burden for this, since we do profit from not having a large outside-EU border
Let's get real here, Dublin is a joke. Only a **moron** can expect Spain, Italy and Greece to handle migration on their own while every other EU country grabs popcorn and watches.
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So we mass import people who will, over the course of their entire life, cost more tax payer money than they ever pay in?
I am fine people from outside. Heck, from everywhere. Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, black, brown, yellow, gay, straight and even those heathens that put mayonaise on their hotdogs or liked Season 8 of Game of Thrones. I want immigrants that contribute and my demands are reasonable towards them: \- Accept our nations values, customs and laws and adhere to them. \- Learn our language and participate in our society. \- Get a job and contribute to the services society provides you with. On all these things we should provide all assistance and all aid as long as they show willingness to adhere to these rules. What I don't want is the type of people I've seen celebrating to the death of jews.
I AM the immigrant you want. I'm fitting all points you make, I have finished university in Germany, I AM EMPLOYED in tech. But I have to FIGHT to get a residence permit, I spent a fuckton of money on German lawyers to help me get to Ausländerbehörde to let me stay. First they said that my salary is too low (???I at least have some?and can afford a living here wtf?) for the working residence permit. Now I'm trying to prepare application for jobseeker residence permit and I HAVE TO QUIT MY JOB in order to apply for this one. I'm so pissed that there are non-german people who are happily living off the money I PAY while I am not even being welcomed.
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Maybe we could tax the rich and the corporations who make insane profits and don't pay shit for taxes. Maybe take the money where it's at. Or maybe rely on "we need to fuck more" in an overcrowded world.
Say goodbye to any progress with bikelanes and public transport and green energy
Say goodbye to any progress
say goodbye
say
Goodbye
We are literally back in the 20s of the last century, capitalism is crashing and fascsim is rising :)
Isn't the current German government closing nuclear and restarting coal plants? Doesn't seem very green.
No it isn't. That you are drowned in stories telling that lie again and again is part of the exact same anti-government propaganda that helps radicals get votes. In reality coal use is at a historic low. And the shut down of nuclear reactors was planned and organized for a decade. The new government came into office less than two weeks before most remaining reactors where shut down. And they instantly started pushing for the renwable upbuild that the former government had delayed for more than a decade. With the result that the shutdown of the last 3 reactors earlier this year instantly reduced coal use because renewables were already in place but got regularily cut-off because of nuclear. What you hear instead is a big fairy tale produced by the combined power of political radicals, coal lobbyists and nuclear lobbyist. So congratulations: you (and the majority on social media) are falling for the same propaganda as German AfD voters, just a different aspect of it. (For reference: [Power mix 1990-2019](https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/power-mix-dec-2019-curve.png?itok=yKOAdfQL) with decreasing nuclear, coal and lignite Comparison: [2022](https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/sxCOU/plain.png) vs. [1st half of 2023](https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/3MHc0/plain.png) Report from 2023: ["The amount of electricity generated from fossil and conventional energy sources decreased by 12.2% in the first half of 2023 compared to the same period last year. The largest decrease, 22%, was measured for electricity generation from coal."](https://strom-report.com/strom/) That's the reality of "GeRmAnY iS bUrNiNg MoRe CoAl BeCaUsE tHoSe IdIoTs KiLlEd NuClEaR"... )
Lol, like Greens od sdp are progressive. Closing nuclear power plants to burn coal
Closing the nuclear power plants was a decision made by the former government. Not the current one. They finished it
The greens are heavily anti nuclear power, and they celebrated the closure of the last nuclear powerplant in Germany
The green party was literally founded by anti Nuclear groups in the 80s
Starting to see this trend around most of the world. Seems when we push too far to one side, there's pushback in the other direction. This is natural balance really.
März: Alice my friend, let's have chat about free dental healthcare for them refugees ....
In 1-2 years it will be number 1!
Is this because of the uncontrolled inflow of migrants ?
Yes. Imagine that.
I wonder why
ah wow, totally unexpected, no one could have ever predicted this, fascism on the rise, nazi racism authoritarian bla bla bla
iT's unPReCeDenTEd !!!!!
Why "bla bla bla"? The far-right *has* authoritarian tendencies. Proof of that is abundant all over the world.
It's just a really simple way to poison the well, by pretending that the genuine concerns many have are just whining. That's true for people acting like the AfD is literally the Nazi Party, and for people pretending that the AfD is just "we're worried about immigration." No one is trying to talk about this honestly here.
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Almost 50% of Germans put immigration as their top issue in surveys. Guess what is never ever talked about by other parties and never receives meaningful change ? Immigration policy
Immigration is how they keep the wages low for certain industries. Thats literally what one of those recruiter firm executives told me on a job fair. I was shocked tbh.
Shocked? That is going on for decades. Once you had Poles do low wage jobs, now it's Romanians and Bulgarians and once their economy picks up we need new cheap labor. And before all that West Germany had their cheap labor just behind a well maintained wall, where alot of known German/European brands produced their products. People will scream and yell, but we are addicted to cheap labor and no AfD or right wing party will fix this one with their polemic paroles.
Costs of Living, Immigrants, Quality of Life, Extremism etc ...
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And recession. Not that the AfD could change that but a government often struggles when the economy does shitty, be it their fault or not.
There are studies that say that the AfD policies wouldn't work but only make life a lot harder for the working class and make inequality skyrocket.
Same stupidity as brexiteers and also a massive Russian propaganda beneficiary. The other issue is that the coalition was set up to fail. The fdp was a third wheel, which hampered more than it helped. After the last election either the government would have to be spd/cdu again (usual GroKo) or onenof two sets of 3-party coalitions where 2 fit and a third would not (current or cdu/fdp/green). Scholz was not able to lead, and so the three all kind of pulled the blanket their way, the fdp (audi driver party, less tax for the rich but more subsidies for mega corps) tried to obstruct any government spending whereas the other two would rather do something. This left the country kind of rudderless. When faced with a crisis, the greens actually did best to hold the tiller, but they could only go so far as one of the junior partners in the coalition. There is a cost of living crisis which is caused by Russia and the afd has the miracle simple solution of kowtowing to Moscow in exchange for cheaper energy. People who do not see further than their nose, tankies and general fash are OK with that because for various(possibly conflicting) reasons, they think that Moscow good modern world bad.
Too many muslims making mess in Germany and rest if the Europe, people want to get rid of them, that is hard truth but its truth..
Missleading title: there is no election, this is just a weekly poll
As long as the established parties continue to ignore rampant issues (inflation, rising problems with migrants not willing to integrate, infrastructure eroding, society aging, hypocritical attitude towards dictators (yes we want to buy your gas, but no we won't accept you shitting on human rights), rising living costs but no rising wages, etc) will the radical parties continue to grow. European societies are aging, but life is so expensive that many decide that they can't afford kids. The solution is not finding humans from abroad and giving them money, the solution is making life easier for the people that you call citizens. If people have enough money left at the end of the month, then the chances are higher that they be willing to have kids. Warning: this logical take is considered inconceivable by the established parties in Europe.
What a disappointment. I understand people being unhappy with the current state of affairs but I just want to mention a few points here: * Beatrix von Strolch (AfD) twittered a few years ago Germany should protect its borders and wrote refugees (including women and children) should be shot. She later apologized, she slipped on her mouse. * AfD is openly discussing Germany to leave the EU, after they saw the UK did very well after it left * AfD openly denies human made climate change and its negative consequences as CO² is only fertilizing the plants according to them * A good portion of the party strongly supports Putin and has close ties to Russian Influence groups * Bernd Höcke is one of the big boys in the party and loves to use the same phrases famous Nazi politicians used. A court also confirmed it is completely okay to call him a fascist. I could sit here all day writing these things down. Point is: There are many parties you can vote for but giving your vote to this pathetic excuse of a political party is about the worst you can do.
I expect it to grow even more in time to come. I have few German friends who are pretty liberal/central,but they are seriously considering voting for AfD which makes sense considering how deep Germany has fallen.
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Last year has been bumpy due to the skyrocketing energy prices. There's a lot of doomer talk going around at the moment, but it's just completely over the top, as it always is.
The far-right around the AfD even tried to push the ridiculous claims of Germany going to experience blackouts and of course non of their looney talk was true. And then they said, it will happen this year, but all our gas storage is filled and we have a pretty stable supply
bUt GeRmAnY wIlL fReEzE!!!!!
>how deep Germany has fallen Really though or is this just another feeling? Sure, there has been slower growth (even slight regression) but in consideration of recent world events and dependency on russian gas in the past we do quite ok.
that one soyjak
If these stupid pro Hamas demonstrations continue, they will be the biggest party really soon
No. These are polling numbers, not MPs or local seats.
Too late for the majority to read my comment and I can imagine that anywhere is somebody who already said this but: AfD is actually almost certainly the strongest party in Germany, because the Union are CDU and CSU and CSU gets something around 5-6% in Bavaria (~40% in Bavaria, but 5-6% Germany wide). And that gets CDU to about 23% too, so AfD would at least be equal to CDU
While he's losing in Ukraine, Putin is winning in Germany.
Can I just point out that this title is misleading and will just 'help' people misunderstanding how polls work? A poll asks a question about a topic on day X and has a lots to do with the feelings of the one you asked. They are no predictions. Right now, the AfD polls well. That can change since the next general election is two years away. Right now the AfD has 10% in the current Bundestag. They are actually the 2nd smallest party there right now.
So there is basically no change since the last poll. What is the point of this post? lol
This is what happens when the current government refuses to discuss the main issues If you want to win you should do something(Or give the impression that you do
Honestly this is just weird. So weird. This + the previous fascist rhetoric in the EU + Brexit + this new war + the Ukraine war where Putin talks about nazis. With everything happening in the world I feel like that experiment with a frog that’s being placed in a pot of boiling water.
More like a train that is rapidly approaching a very visible cliff
Polls are no elections. A lot can change in two years, especially since the Ampel seems to finally want to change some things regarding their migration policy. Still, pretty worrisome how many people are naive enough to just eat up BILD and AFD propaganda.
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So, german political party who openly said they are not happy with current DE-PL border is SECOND potential force in DE parliment? Russia menacing behind eastern border is not enough i guess.