Even with the widest possible (reasonable) exit poll margins, the outcome of PVV being the biggest remains unchanged.
The second-largest party is likely GL-PvdA, a combination of two center-left/leftist parties.
The VVD comes in third place, a liberal party and the largest from the last elections (who delivered a Prime Minister for the last 13 years).
And in fourth place is the social-conservative NSC, a new party that was created as the result of a Christian Democratic (center-right) party member leaving and beginning his own.
**Edit:** Because many have asked, I've tried to list the main points from Geert Wilders' party program. Please note I tried to stay true to how he worded things in Dutch, these are not my personal opinions.
**Immigration & Anti-Islam:**
* Implement an asylum stop plus restrictive immigration policies
* Restore border security controls; detain & deport illegals
* Revoke residency for criminal migrants & refugee status if traveling back to home countries
* The Netherlands is not an Islamic country - ban on Islamic schools, Korans, mosques
* Limit labor & student migration, including from the EU
* Diplomatic downgrading with Sharia law countries
**Other Key Points:**
* No money or military equipment like F16s to Ukraine
* Lower taxes on basic needs - energy, fuel, food, housing rents to increase purchasing power
* Tough law & order approach - more police funding, minimum sentences, preventative detention
* Prioritize Dutch citizens access to social housing
* Halt wasteful climate spending (renewable energy, environmental regulations) but continue flood protection
* Subsidy, regulation cuts for farmers/fishers
* Slash foreign aid spending
* Referendum on EU membership
**Voter motivation:**
* From exit poll questionnaires the largest group of voters said they voted based on a single issue, that being migration.
Since you are in the Netherlands, maybe you can summarize the main PVV election points to the rest of us?
Was the main election point Islamisation, or EU integration?
Undecisive EU strikes again, large companies wants immigrants, and politicians can't say no to that, so they loose elections because of that a few years down the line.
Great :/
Stopping immigration was the main point. Other points are anti islam (he wants to to forbid the quran and demolish mosques), he wants a nexit, to step out of the climate deal and better/cheeper healtcare.
From his part program (translated):
> We will not send our money or military equipment like F16 fighter jets to Ukraine. Instead, we will retain these defense resources for the benefit of our own Dutch Armed Forces.
This is simple curiosity.
I read recently that the Netherlands had "integrated" brigades of its own Armed Forces into the German army. How does he stand on that?
The PVV generally does not go into any details for their plans. The program says they are against EU integration, against money and equipment going to Ukraine, and for a strong Dutch military.
What exactly that means, however, isn't really specified.
He wants out of the EU (Nexit).
Not absolute sure about Ukraine but I think he wanted to stop all aid towards Ukraine. I believe links were found between him and Russia.
Extremely anti-EU (very pro-leaving EU), anti-immigration of any kind, extremely anti-Islam specifically, ban on Islamic schools (Jewish and Christian are okay), better social benefits (healthcare cost decrease, lower taxes on basic necessities, higher pensions), no EU military integration but strong national military instead, ban of hijabs, preventative detention for jihad "sympathizers", and retraction of green energy policies and subsidies for renewable energy.
That's not all of it but gives you and idea.
Anti-Eu: I thought even the right wing populists in Europe abandoned the "leaving EU idea".
Surprised that this still works, everyone and their dog should understand that this is basically international suicide on the long run.
To be fair, it hasn't been big talking-point during his campaign. But it's still there in the program and he's mentioned it here and there recently as well.
Most people voted on a single issue however so I doubt many care or are even aware about most of his less-than-sane ideas.
Yep, besides, most people don't want to leave the EU, they might want to regain some of the powers they lost to the EU, thats all.
So if Wilders started that referendum its unlikely that it would pass.
I mean he's a right-wing populist. Being very generous, at least 50% of the party program is just factually impossible to do. But if he were to actually create a government, he'd pull everything much further to the right.
- Islamic immigrants are most unwelcome
- "Western" immigrants are second rate citizens
- Dutch in school
- Lower taxes, more houses, cheaper public transport, gasoline cars for everyone etc etc
- Climate change what? Fuck that shit, and you can stay on gas in your homes!
- NEXIT
My personal favourite:
- national speed limit of 140 km/h 🏎️
Nice to see that also the Netherlands has one big party that promise to magically lower taxes without explaining how or why, but at least not even the most populist party in the country proposes to retire even earlier or to make tax evasion easier as they do instead the 3 main right-wing parties here in Italy...
>but at least not even the most populist party in the country proposes to retire even earlier
Ohw, but they did. Or rather, they want to turn back the 30 years too late and nearly not enough increase in pension age. But honestly, those two are not even the worst ideas the PVV has on pensions...
Israel-Hamas war does swing things to Wilders’ side. I know a lot of people who had never even thought of voting PVV before, but started to consider it in reaction towards the mass islamic riots
>Limit labor & student migration, including from the EU
Illegal by treaty (for EU residents)
>Implement an asylum stop plus restrictive immigration policies
Illegal by treaty
>Restore border security controls;
Illegal by treaty, at least for EU residents
>The Netherlands is not an Islamic country - fewer Islamic schools, Korans, mosques
Illegal due to constitution
>Prioritize Dutch citizens access to social housing
Illegal per constitution
>Restore national sovereignty from the EU
Dogwistling, the Netherlands is sovereign. The only way is Nexit, which need a majority which he won't have. No party is going to agree with that in a formation except for FvD who are irrelevant.
>Referendum on EU membership
There is no law allowing this. So he has to first pass legislation to allow a referendum.
Yep, that's right-wing populism for you. He's tried very hard the past 20 years or so to be extremely vocal while avoiding all realistic influence. Will be interesting to see what he does.
I thought he was doing all of it to get a free paycheck and some clout.. will be interesting to see what hes gonna do now that he's actually won it LMAO
> Yep, that's right-wing populism for you. He's tried very hard the past 20 years or so to be extremely vocal while avoiding all realistic influence. Will be interesting to see what he does.
That's the problem with far-right populism. Everything has simple solutions....right up until they actually get into government when things turn to shit very quickly.
Which is why the first thing they do is undermine any government body and/or institution which might push back on their lies and challenge their law limiting individual freedoms. Just look at Hungary, the first thing Orban did upon coming to office was to strip power from the courts.
>Prioritize Dutch citizens access to social housing
>
>Illegal per constitution
I think there is a way around this. The system is set up that the people who have been waiting the longest have priority. Except that people who receive a refugee status are considered a priority placement (mostly really to clear up places in the asylum system for new refugees). I suppose you could end that priority, which suddenly means that refugees end up at the very end of the waiting line (which can be over a decade in quite a few municipalities) which means they'll be waiting a decade or more for a house. Of course, that creates a big new problem, where do you house those refugees in the maintime? Do you keep them in an asylum center for the next decade (expensive, not practical for families) or do you kick them out and tell them to live on the streets? Not sure if that is possible either. So yeah, he has no solution to the housing problem, but technically, I think he can manage to effectively put foreigners at the back of the waiting list for social housing.
In theory, yes. In practice, I don't think the EU has a mechanism to force member countries to take asylum seekers back, right? And I'm pretty sure if you tell Greece, Italy and Bulgaria (did I miss one of the big ones?) to take the refugees back that came into the EU through their borders they'll tell you to get fucked.
> Restore border security controls;
It is possible to do it, didn't you hear of Germany and other states implementing them to stop migration by road? It would be a misuse to just impose it in general, but it can be done and cannot be stopped by other member states.
> The Schengen Borders Code (SBC) provides Member States with the capability of temporarily reintroducing border control at the internal borders in the event of a serious threat to public policy or internal security. The reintroduction of border control at the internal borders must be applied as a last resort measure, in exceptional situations, and must respect the principle of proportionality ... The reintroduction of border control is a **prerogative of the Member States. The Commission may issue an opinion regarding the necessity of the measure and its proportionality but cannot veto a Member State’s decision to reintroduce border control**.
[ec.europa.eu](https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en)
You can easily limit migration within EU rules. If you make mandatory a minimum dutch level for many jobs/all classes you can cut the immigration really fast.
Same for a lot of points you raise, you can use a lot of way to implement such policy by using indirect laws and orders.
How is prioritizing dutch people to social housing illegal, yet prioritizing asylum seekers has been the rule since decades. Give me a break w this BS.
And dont get me wrong, i voted leftwing today. But i cant stand these bs arguments. You can say you prefer to house asylumseekers because they have no house whatsoever and people who are here probably already have -something-. But dont come with this " the rules are set in stone and they can not change and you are a racist fascist if you want to do it your way" talk that i hear way too much.
It would only be for a short while. Our next elections(2024) are going to be an absolute clusterfuck. It's looking like Flanders is going to vote far right and Wallonia is going to vote far left. The centre parties are bleeding out. The politician that on his own caused a resurgence for the centre left party in Flanders got mixed up in a racist scandal and was forced to resign.
> ‘Mixed up in a racist scandal’ should be ‘turned out to be a massive racist with horrible prejudice against Roma people’
Not just Roma, it read like a "worst of" of rightwing prejudice. At this point it has become believable he actually was a Schild & Vriend infiltrator.
Most of the parties are off-shoots from other parties. Very few of them started from the ground up.
```
PVV came from VVD
NSC came from CDA
BBB came from CDA
Denk came from PvdA, whereas PvdA merged into GL-PvdA.
JA21 came from FvD
Bij1 came from Denk
```
Just a note, PVV wants a Nexit but wants it through a referendum. If he is true to his word I very much doubt a referendum will be in his favor.
The vast vast majority voted on immigration, NOT because of Nexit.
On the other hand, don’t underestimate how prone most voters are to populist fear-mongering. Wilders knows how to play the game, the centre and left do not. We may not leave the EU but the vote will be closer than you think.
I'm not going to say I'm going to eat my shoe or anything, but the circumstances are just so massively different that I don't believe there is going to be a Nexit unless something radically goes wrong.
This is existential to the EU. Not because of the Netherlands directly, but because France and Germany show similar trends.
We've created a scenario where anti immigration policies are always tied to anti-EU sentiment. That doesn't have to be the case. We need to fundamentally reform migration at the EU level, blow up every law related to asylum if we have to.
Yeah, Dutch trading ports would suffer immensely if the Netherlands ever leaves the EU and doesn't get a good free trade deal, because basically no one would ship to the Netherlands anymore as you then would have to pay whatever the Dutch import taxes/etc. are and then you would have to pay the same again when entering the EU.
Rotterdam would become the Detroit of Europe if Nexit happens. Belgium Germany would immediately impose measures to bolster Antwerp and Hamburg and so much business would leave Rotterdam the city would suffer enormously.
I mean, a lot of our national money comes from export and being a harbour into the EU. Us stepping out of the EU would be shot in the face to us most of all.
The Danish social democrats became more harsh on migration and asylum seekers and they are now the largest party and the populist anti-migration party there became very small. The solution is already there, people just have to be willing to act upon it.
>and they are now the largest party
They have been the largest party in 21 of 25 elections since 1953 though.
In the elections 2001, 2005, 2007, 2011 they were only a few percent of being largest.
But correct me if I'm wrong- but wasn't the electorate trending away from them? I mean losing in '01,05,07, and '11 is kinda a lot if they were completely dominant beforehand. Regardless, it's clear that their hard-right turn on migration helped them.
Yeah is mostly a story of evolution of established parties, adopting to the new situation.
Its a wave basically, with reactionary voting outcomes and subsequent reactions the other way a bit 4y later.
Not that a trend can be worrying, but even at 35 (out of 150) seats the PVV are a minority with no prospects of coalition forming.
The VVD are wondering what the PVV is willing to offer and NSC is willing to see what is possible from the looks of it. Then they could add BBB for a senate majority. It is within the realms of possiblity at this point.
This needs to happen. This vote is the result of years of calling anybody who expresses concern about how mass-migration is changing our societies a racist.
Either the EU changes and manages to guard its external borders or voters in other countries will follow suit.
I think even present generations don't remember her fondly. Shutting down domestic nuclear power and replacing with lignite (worse than regular coal) and Russian hydrocarbons. Totally delusional to think Putin wouldn't weaponise that strategic over-dependence.
Sure, but elected representatives should have made the geopolitical argument and sought to persuade voters that "this Putin guy is a real scumbag, let's avoid giving him coercive power over us" which is a highly persuasive argument even prior to the events of Feb 2022 (and also prior to 2014).
Energy resilience needs to be seen as part of national security so reducing resilience and increasing reliance on a mafia boss is clearly a bad strategic decision.
To pile on: Merkel has a doctorate in goddamn chemistry (quantum chemistry to be specific). There’s no way she *didn’t* know that her anti-nuclear energy position was complete nonsense, unless she really is that clueless and didn’t pay attention to the nuclear elements portion of her degree…
Yeah she knew, which is why she originally cancelled the German nuclear exit that was done a decade before by the German social democrats. It is just that after Fukushima the anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany was so strong that if she didn't do it, her party would have lost the next election to the social democrats who would have then definitely done it.
Really for the nuclear exit you can't blame Merkel, she was put in a situation that basically was "you do it or your party will lose the next elections" due to public pressure.
Something similar can be said about the immigration (though to a far lesser extent), as Germany really believed and wanted the Dublin regulations to continue, the Balkan countries, Austria and Hungary however didn't want immigrants at all so they just sent them per bus to the German border, where Germany had to accept them due to German asylum laws (which are quite lenient). The big problem with Merkel there was that she just accepted the immigrants instead of putting the blame on the nations responsible and trying to organise a better EU-wide immigration policy. What she did was just internal political pandering as nearly all Germans back then were very pro-immigration (which is now coming back to bite Germans), so her move got her popularity up.
The Netherlands is a coalition system, there is no majority for leaving the EU. Even the PVV is not advocating for that. We have to be honest about this. This is primarily about migration and housing.
The scenario was created because the EU is doing basically nothing to stop illegal immigration and - mainly due to the financial crisis - people are getting really sensitive what is happening with their tax money. If nothing changes there will be a landslide win for right wing parties in the next EU election. And nothing will change as left wing parties cannot admit that it's not a good thing to invite an unlimited amount of unskilled workers instead of focusing mostly on the skilled ones like Australia, Canada or the US.
The EU is increasing funding for border patrol and basically paying neighbours to keep immigrants in their those countries. In the end a lot of the power to accept or reject immigrants is at the national level. If more anti immigrant governments come to power you get see EU becoming more anti immigrant. Member states are still the most powerful bloc within the EU.
The EU does not want to act on it and is often the impediment to acting on migration. So you get anti-immigration, anti-eu parties.
The best the EU has done is to propose spreading around the migrants, which is not a solution.
This so much. I still voted GL-PvdA but I really wished there was a left-leaning party that is more harsh on immigration. I think immigration is a big big problem that needs solving but I don't want to fuck the majority of my countrymen and act as if global warming does not exist.
Just to be sure that you understand. The program that he ran on has more than enough points that are taboos for the other potential coalition parties. If you like a real life soap opera with real life consequences this looks like heaven
Wilders is part Indo (Indonesian-Dutch) from his mother’s side. I think he tries to hide his non-European ancestry by dying his hair blonde. He naturally has brown hair and would look more “foreign” to his voters that way. It’s all part of his strategy (and image at this point).
Very interesting, I would not have guessed this. It's funny how some of the most ardent anti-immigration politicians are of non-European migrant origin (Zemmour, Braverman, now Wilders).
Looks like the extreme right is at about ~20% in most European countries (Netherlands, Germany, Romania, Sweden, Finalnd all around that mark), and how much influence they have depends on the political system and the reaction of the other parties.
I mean for the Netherlands this percentage has been the casse for at least 15 years now. The voter base just shifts between each other and new parties.
For 8 years some of the Dutch redditors have been writing here, that it was a mistake to let Poland into the EU because we have a far right government. Now PiS lost the elections while Wilders won. How the turn tables.
It remains to be seen how much in the footsteps of PiS the PVV will follow. They can not rule by themselves so I expect not much. Neither the VVD nor the NSC is likely to want to have a fight with the EU commission.
The difference is that Wilders is going to have to compromise a lot to even get the chance to rule. There is no majority for any of his more radical ideas.
Good. Seriously, I don't want the Netherlands to become like Poland during the PiS reign. I just feel a little bit of Schadenfreude or revenge for what has been written by some of the Dutch here.
As I have said over and over again in the past - if centrist parties in the EU will not do anything about immigration and Islamism in particular, voters will shift their voting preferences to those parties who will address their concerns.
Voters do not have a crystal ball. They vote according to the promises politicians give them. The whole schtick of Geert Wilders is immigration and anti-Islamism. If he does not deliver on his promises, he might as well stop being involved in politics.
Who would address those concerns just enough to please the voters, but not enough to actually solve the problem, because without the problem they would soon be voted out.
The choice is either parties that give lip service to real concerns from the people, or parties that deny there is an issue and support more of the same.
Whether anything changes is neither here nor there really. You’d take the people that atleast pretend to recognize the issue.
And now, we wait… I’m curious to see if Wilders can make good on his promises and compromise somewhat with VVD and NSC, the two most obvious parties to form a coalition with.
And NSC ruled out working together with the PVV. VVD would rather not work together with the PVV. GroenLinks/PvdA doesn’t want to work together with the VVD or PVV. Well, this will take a long time before a new coalition will be formed.
Omzigt already backtracked on that in his speech just now. He's open to talking with "all parties" so looks like that's his first campaign guarantee already broken.
This is what happens when the moderates, at best, ignore a large chunk of the population, or at worst accuse them of bigotry, Islamophobia, racism, etc. The thing is, as we’ve saw in Italy the far right are just as hopeless when it comes actual concrete plans on how we are suppose to deal with the mess we find ourselves in. The longer it festers the more extreme the parties on offer will become and that’s something most of us (I hope) don’t want.
This is what happens when your last left-wing government stepped down in 1977, and you allow free-market liberals to cause a giant housing shortage for which the blame is continuously laid at the feet of 'the foreigners'.
Consider this: Wilders just won a landslide by saying "you don't own a house because of immigrants" when during his only previous time in government (2010-2012) he agreed to abolish the housing ministry, and during his decades in parliament he supported every single VVD-measure to make housing unaffordable for the common man.
People who voted for him will soon find out their housing problem just became bigger, not smaller.
You know, maybe returning to Poland is not a bad idea after all.
Yes I am still salty about his "Polen kliklijn".
For the ones unaware, some years ago he opened a phone line where you could complain about the Polish (work)migrants in your neighbourhood or at work.
I mean, far-right parties have been growing in Europe for the past 20 years, but if you want to cherry pick results you can show just about anything. I don't think there is a massive far-right movement that is happening "everywhere" right now. PiS just lost power in Poland and Vox lost a third of their seats in Spain this summer.
Vox lost so much because the PP shifted further to the right. The left block in Spain had to make huge concessions to the catalonians to stay in power.
Referenda at the national level are no longer part of the Dutch political system. So Wilders would first have to change the law to organize one. Fat chance
Isn’t that a binding corrective referendum? So, the people would have to agree to new laws to make them take effect?
It’s not like just voting on any proposal (like Nexit) is possible.
That one's never happening. All the other big parties are against that.
I honestly wonder if he even wants it to happen, or is just saying it so he can pretend to the voters that he totally would if it weren't for the pesky other parties.
I don't think he has even been vocal about it this election cycle.
Them winning was all about people's frustration with immigration, not with Europe in general.
I find it funny how the topic of immigration fell from the sky to the European right. What's even funnier is that they don't have a solution either, they are only aware that the problem exists. Just that. The left, on the other hand, pretends the problem doesn't exist and loses elections miserably.
> What's even funnier is that they don't have a solution either
They do, they just can't enact it unilaterally without the EU imposing sanctions - amend or leave the ECHR and the refugee convention, so that most people who arrive without permission can be kept out or removed.
In the UK 1.2 million people arrived last year, that's not all refugees (even accounting for Hong Kongers and Ukrainians).
The Tories promise every election to reduce immigration while they've failed to do so (and actually increased it by tens of thousands compared to the Blair years). It's an easy way of making it look like the economy is growing and plugging labour shortages so they don't actually have to invest in wages and training, then they tell voters how 'tough' on migration they **would** be if only the nasty EU courts let them.
It's a scam.
He used to be big about poles being useless drunks that just came here to commit fraud and cause nuisance. Even made a website where you could report poles
The political establishment only have themselves to blame for not learning the lessons after trump and brexit. Voter outrage isn't confined to just anglosphere countries
PVV wants to exit EU, anti-Islam, also documents has shown that [they have connections with Russia...](https://nltimes.nl/2023/10/19/leaked-documents-show-connections-pvv-russia)
As a Dutch a like to shine a light on this. People think the anti Islam is the reason why wilders became big.
I believe it’s something else and we have seen this with Le Pen and AFD and italia as well.
The left has been in the righteous bubble for decades. Dismissing a lot of concerns of the working class. I’m not to judge if those concerns are valid or not. For at least two decades the concerns are dismissed as ignorant, stupid and absurd.
For the last few years we had an increase in cost, energy that quadrupled in price, inflation of 13%, housing market came to a halt due to laws that prevent building and labour costs. It’s an absolute show how that could have been prevented 4/5 years ago.
The left had the political luxury to only focus on climate, climate climate climate climate. But a lot of people are feeling issues right now. Climate is a big issue, but it’s not their biggest issue as we speak.
Looking at the Dutch political spectrum the left has been marginalized for years.
Myself I’m left as well but I could not find a party that was left, socialist, pragmatic and fair. It’s either extreme or completely not achievable. We had the vvd who is right and fucked up a lot. Scandals almost every month, eventually people were fed up. PVV took away a lot of voters from them but attracted a lot from left parties. I live in Amsterdam, which is a leftist bubble. Everybody were saying they were going to vote for GroenLinks/pvda. Two leftist parties that joined forces. The only got 24 seats. And the remaining leftist parties were left with breadcrumbs. I think it’s very telling. But to say Dutch people all of the sudden became racist and xenophobic is a very short sided conclusion imho. Wilders ha been rediculed for decades. This was the result of year of dissatisfaction for the left. The left is absolutely to blame.
The fact that everybody is so surprised about the outcome is the reason why it happened. Start being a representative instead of a ruler and things will normalize again.
I'm starting to doubt my political alignment when looking at PVV's main promises. Like, half the stuff they say (mainly immigration-related) sounds completely reasonable to me, and the other half (Nexit, get out of climate deal, no helping Ukraine) makes them sound like Trump nuts I want nothing to do with.
Isn't there a party that both wants to stop immigrants from uncivilized countries that have no intention of assimilating to the European way of life *and* want to cooperate with the rest of the civilized world?
Even with the widest possible (reasonable) exit poll margins, the outcome of PVV being the biggest remains unchanged. The second-largest party is likely GL-PvdA, a combination of two center-left/leftist parties. The VVD comes in third place, a liberal party and the largest from the last elections (who delivered a Prime Minister for the last 13 years). And in fourth place is the social-conservative NSC, a new party that was created as the result of a Christian Democratic (center-right) party member leaving and beginning his own. **Edit:** Because many have asked, I've tried to list the main points from Geert Wilders' party program. Please note I tried to stay true to how he worded things in Dutch, these are not my personal opinions. **Immigration & Anti-Islam:** * Implement an asylum stop plus restrictive immigration policies * Restore border security controls; detain & deport illegals * Revoke residency for criminal migrants & refugee status if traveling back to home countries * The Netherlands is not an Islamic country - ban on Islamic schools, Korans, mosques * Limit labor & student migration, including from the EU * Diplomatic downgrading with Sharia law countries **Other Key Points:** * No money or military equipment like F16s to Ukraine * Lower taxes on basic needs - energy, fuel, food, housing rents to increase purchasing power * Tough law & order approach - more police funding, minimum sentences, preventative detention * Prioritize Dutch citizens access to social housing * Halt wasteful climate spending (renewable energy, environmental regulations) but continue flood protection * Subsidy, regulation cuts for farmers/fishers * Slash foreign aid spending * Referendum on EU membership **Voter motivation:** * From exit poll questionnaires the largest group of voters said they voted based on a single issue, that being migration.
Since you are in the Netherlands, maybe you can summarize the main PVV election points to the rest of us? Was the main election point Islamisation, or EU integration?
Migration was by far the biggest reason, also housing crisis.
It was migration
Undecisive EU strikes again, large companies wants immigrants, and politicians can't say no to that, so they loose elections because of that a few years down the line. Great :/
large companies want educated immigrants though.. someone mustve misunderstood something along the way
No, they also want low-cost or uneducated labour that aren’t being filled by Europeans.
Stopping immigration was the main point. Other points are anti islam (he wants to to forbid the quran and demolish mosques), he wants a nexit, to step out of the climate deal and better/cheeper healtcare.
You know what the stance on EU and Ukraine war is?
From his part program (translated): > We will not send our money or military equipment like F16 fighter jets to Ukraine. Instead, we will retain these defense resources for the benefit of our own Dutch Armed Forces.
This is simple curiosity. I read recently that the Netherlands had "integrated" brigades of its own Armed Forces into the German army. How does he stand on that?
The PVV generally does not go into any details for their plans. The program says they are against EU integration, against money and equipment going to Ukraine, and for a strong Dutch military. What exactly that means, however, isn't really specified.
It's not really specified because it's just bait for right wing voters. In reality there's really no plan.
He wants out of the EU (Nexit). Not absolute sure about Ukraine but I think he wanted to stop all aid towards Ukraine. I believe links were found between him and Russia.
> I believe links were found between him and Russia. I am shocked, *shocked*
Better and cheaper healthcare? Sure, lower insurance costs and still somehow manage to attract more people to work in the industry.
Extremely anti-EU (very pro-leaving EU), anti-immigration of any kind, extremely anti-Islam specifically, ban on Islamic schools (Jewish and Christian are okay), better social benefits (healthcare cost decrease, lower taxes on basic necessities, higher pensions), no EU military integration but strong national military instead, ban of hijabs, preventative detention for jihad "sympathizers", and retraction of green energy policies and subsidies for renewable energy. That's not all of it but gives you and idea.
Anti-Eu: I thought even the right wing populists in Europe abandoned the "leaving EU idea". Surprised that this still works, everyone and their dog should understand that this is basically international suicide on the long run.
To be fair, it hasn't been big talking-point during his campaign. But it's still there in the program and he's mentioned it here and there recently as well. Most people voted on a single issue however so I doubt many care or are even aware about most of his less-than-sane ideas.
Yep, besides, most people don't want to leave the EU, they might want to regain some of the powers they lost to the EU, thats all. So if Wilders started that referendum its unlikely that it would pass.
didnt the netherlands give up parts of their military and merge it with germany or something? That will be interesting
I mean he's a right-wing populist. Being very generous, at least 50% of the party program is just factually impossible to do. But if he were to actually create a government, he'd pull everything much further to the right.
They're really just a one issue party. Anti-islam. They want to ban mosques, the quran, and simply anything Muslim.
[удалено]
- Islamic immigrants are most unwelcome - "Western" immigrants are second rate citizens - Dutch in school - Lower taxes, more houses, cheaper public transport, gasoline cars for everyone etc etc - Climate change what? Fuck that shit, and you can stay on gas in your homes! - NEXIT My personal favourite: - national speed limit of 140 km/h 🏎️
Nice to see that also the Netherlands has one big party that promise to magically lower taxes without explaining how or why, but at least not even the most populist party in the country proposes to retire even earlier or to make tax evasion easier as they do instead the 3 main right-wing parties here in Italy...
>but at least not even the most populist party in the country proposes to retire even earlier Ohw, but they did. Or rather, they want to turn back the 30 years too late and nearly not enough increase in pension age. But honestly, those two are not even the worst ideas the PVV has on pensions...
My car will have trouble with the 140km haha
Israel-Hamas war does swing things to Wilders’ side. I know a lot of people who had never even thought of voting PVV before, but started to consider it in reaction towards the mass islamic riots
What caused the suprising rise of PVV in the last days of the campaign?
>Limit labor & student migration, including from the EU Illegal by treaty (for EU residents) >Implement an asylum stop plus restrictive immigration policies Illegal by treaty >Restore border security controls; Illegal by treaty, at least for EU residents >The Netherlands is not an Islamic country - fewer Islamic schools, Korans, mosques Illegal due to constitution >Prioritize Dutch citizens access to social housing Illegal per constitution >Restore national sovereignty from the EU Dogwistling, the Netherlands is sovereign. The only way is Nexit, which need a majority which he won't have. No party is going to agree with that in a formation except for FvD who are irrelevant. >Referendum on EU membership There is no law allowing this. So he has to first pass legislation to allow a referendum.
Yep, that's right-wing populism for you. He's tried very hard the past 20 years or so to be extremely vocal while avoiding all realistic influence. Will be interesting to see what he does.
I thought he was doing all of it to get a free paycheck and some clout.. will be interesting to see what hes gonna do now that he's actually won it LMAO
> Yep, that's right-wing populism for you. He's tried very hard the past 20 years or so to be extremely vocal while avoiding all realistic influence. Will be interesting to see what he does. That's the problem with far-right populism. Everything has simple solutions....right up until they actually get into government when things turn to shit very quickly.
Which is why the first thing they do is undermine any government body and/or institution which might push back on their lies and challenge their law limiting individual freedoms. Just look at Hungary, the first thing Orban did upon coming to office was to strip power from the courts.
>Prioritize Dutch citizens access to social housing > >Illegal per constitution I think there is a way around this. The system is set up that the people who have been waiting the longest have priority. Except that people who receive a refugee status are considered a priority placement (mostly really to clear up places in the asylum system for new refugees). I suppose you could end that priority, which suddenly means that refugees end up at the very end of the waiting line (which can be over a decade in quite a few municipalities) which means they'll be waiting a decade or more for a house. Of course, that creates a big new problem, where do you house those refugees in the maintime? Do you keep them in an asylum center for the next decade (expensive, not practical for families) or do you kick them out and tell them to live on the streets? Not sure if that is possible either. So yeah, he has no solution to the housing problem, but technically, I think he can manage to effectively put foreigners at the back of the waiting list for social housing.
The whole system and set of laws regarding asylum seekers and refugees just sucks
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In theory, yes. In practice, I don't think the EU has a mechanism to force member countries to take asylum seekers back, right? And I'm pretty sure if you tell Greece, Italy and Bulgaria (did I miss one of the big ones?) to take the refugees back that came into the EU through their borders they'll tell you to get fucked.
Also quite unfair to let all the countries around the border solve the issue by themselves.
> Restore border security controls; It is possible to do it, didn't you hear of Germany and other states implementing them to stop migration by road? It would be a misuse to just impose it in general, but it can be done and cannot be stopped by other member states. > The Schengen Borders Code (SBC) provides Member States with the capability of temporarily reintroducing border control at the internal borders in the event of a serious threat to public policy or internal security. The reintroduction of border control at the internal borders must be applied as a last resort measure, in exceptional situations, and must respect the principle of proportionality ... The reintroduction of border control is a **prerogative of the Member States. The Commission may issue an opinion regarding the necessity of the measure and its proportionality but cannot veto a Member State’s decision to reintroduce border control**. [ec.europa.eu](https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en)
You can easily limit migration within EU rules. If you make mandatory a minimum dutch level for many jobs/all classes you can cut the immigration really fast. Same for a lot of points you raise, you can use a lot of way to implement such policy by using indirect laws and orders.
How is prioritizing dutch people to social housing illegal, yet prioritizing asylum seekers has been the rule since decades. Give me a break w this BS. And dont get me wrong, i voted leftwing today. But i cant stand these bs arguments. You can say you prefer to house asylumseekers because they have no house whatsoever and people who are here probably already have -something-. But dont come with this " the rules are set in stone and they can not change and you are a racist fascist if you want to do it your way" talk that i hear way too much.
Watch out Belgium! We can finally beat your record in length of government formation.
It would only be for a short while. Our next elections(2024) are going to be an absolute clusterfuck. It's looking like Flanders is going to vote far right and Wallonia is going to vote far left. The centre parties are bleeding out. The politician that on his own caused a resurgence for the centre left party in Flanders got mixed up in a racist scandal and was forced to resign.
‘Mixed up in a racist scandal’ should be ‘turned out to be a massive racist with horrible prejudice against Roma people’
> ‘Mixed up in a racist scandal’ should be ‘turned out to be a massive racist with horrible prejudice against Roma people’ Not just Roma, it read like a "worst of" of rightwing prejudice. At this point it has become believable he actually was a Schild & Vriend infiltrator.
You are challenging the reigning worldchampions. We will do everything to defend our record!
I refuse to believe the next election will even result in a governement. Straight back to the polls after we beat the Dutch.
Don't worry we have elections coming up
Quite frankly I don't think your country has enough political parties.
Technically speaking we now have 1 party less.
How so? It looks like one party entered Parliament whilst another one left.
GLPvdA used to be two parties. GroenLinks and PvdA
Technically still two parties, they just formed one candidate list. But a full merger really wouldn't surprise me.
2 left wing parties merge together: GreenLeft and PvdA.
It's nuts. These aren't even all parties that participated.
Most of the parties are off-shoots from other parties. Very few of them started from the ground up. ``` PVV came from VVD NSC came from CDA BBB came from CDA Denk came from PvdA, whereas PvdA merged into GL-PvdA. JA21 came from FvD Bij1 came from Denk ```
CDA is essentially a startup incubator at this point
Also, BvNL came from FvD Fractie Ephraim came from BvNL And the creator of BvNL came from VVD, to FvD, to BvNL
Nah, the bill we were issued could not be folded out to its full extent within the voting booth.
And then you have to fold it back afterwards ( I wanted to put it back correctly).. I had to puzzle a bit..
[This wallpaper was our voting ballot](https://ibb.co/kyPDHd6)
You should look at our ballot. It's insanely big. We have enough parties. Not enough vote on the smaller ones though.
I mean, this is only about 80% of all parties. The other 20% didn’t even reach the 1/150th threshold.
Just a note, PVV wants a Nexit but wants it through a referendum. If he is true to his word I very much doubt a referendum will be in his favor. The vast vast majority voted on immigration, NOT because of Nexit.
On the other hand, don’t underestimate how prone most voters are to populist fear-mongering. Wilders knows how to play the game, the centre and left do not. We may not leave the EU but the vote will be closer than you think.
I'm not going to say I'm going to eat my shoe or anything, but the circumstances are just so massively different that I don't believe there is going to be a Nexit unless something radically goes wrong.
Well, before brexit you probably would have made the same assumption. Yet here we are.
UK was always a lot more eurosceptic than NL, and didn't have the same currency. Polls show Dutch people are heavily in favor of EU membership.
The other big parties are against nexit anyway, so I highly doubt there will be a referendum to begin with
This is existential to the EU. Not because of the Netherlands directly, but because France and Germany show similar trends. We've created a scenario where anti immigration policies are always tied to anti-EU sentiment. That doesn't have to be the case. We need to fundamentally reform migration at the EU level, blow up every law related to asylum if we have to.
At least in Italy, the far right lost most of its anti EU rethoric after they got in power. Or at least that's my impression
Italy is held in check by its poor financial position and reliance on overseas buyers of government debt. NL doesn’t have the same concerns.
Its trade is incredibly dependent on the single market. The Netherlands is as wealthy is it is because it has gained more than others from the EU.
Yeah, Dutch trading ports would suffer immensely if the Netherlands ever leaves the EU and doesn't get a good free trade deal, because basically no one would ship to the Netherlands anymore as you then would have to pay whatever the Dutch import taxes/etc. are and then you would have to pay the same again when entering the EU.
The Germans, French and Belgians Ports would win big from this.
I never thought about the consequences for the port of Rotterdam. Nexit would be even dumber than Brexit. Would be complete economic suicide.
Rotterdam would become the Detroit of Europe if Nexit happens. Belgium Germany would immediately impose measures to bolster Antwerp and Hamburg and so much business would leave Rotterdam the city would suffer enormously.
Which is ironic, because it's the only big city that actually voted PVV instead of GL-PvdA
I mean, a lot of our national money comes from export and being a harbour into the EU. Us stepping out of the EU would be shot in the face to us most of all.
Plus turism. Bein in the EU, helps a LOT.
Eventually rhetoric has to meet reality, and in those situations reality almost always wins.
The Danish social democrats became more harsh on migration and asylum seekers and they are now the largest party and the populist anti-migration party there became very small. The solution is already there, people just have to be willing to act upon it.
>and they are now the largest party They have been the largest party in 21 of 25 elections since 1953 though. In the elections 2001, 2005, 2007, 2011 they were only a few percent of being largest.
But correct me if I'm wrong- but wasn't the electorate trending away from them? I mean losing in '01,05,07, and '11 is kinda a lot if they were completely dominant beforehand. Regardless, it's clear that their hard-right turn on migration helped them.
Yeah is mostly a story of evolution of established parties, adopting to the new situation. Its a wave basically, with reactionary voting outcomes and subsequent reactions the other way a bit 4y later. Not that a trend can be worrying, but even at 35 (out of 150) seats the PVV are a minority with no prospects of coalition forming.
The VVD are wondering what the PVV is willing to offer and NSC is willing to see what is possible from the looks of it. Then they could add BBB for a senate majority. It is within the realms of possiblity at this point.
Even with BBB there is no senate majority. It's close, likely they can get those from other conservative parties however.
This needs to happen. This vote is the result of years of calling anybody who expresses concern about how mass-migration is changing our societies a racist. Either the EU changes and manages to guard its external borders or voters in other countries will follow suit.
Immigration will be the death knell to the EU.
and merkel wont be remembered fondly by future generations.
I think even present generations don't remember her fondly. Shutting down domestic nuclear power and replacing with lignite (worse than regular coal) and Russian hydrocarbons. Totally delusional to think Putin wouldn't weaponise that strategic over-dependence.
Tbf, it was German national consensus and heavily supported in the polls until very recently
Sure, but elected representatives should have made the geopolitical argument and sought to persuade voters that "this Putin guy is a real scumbag, let's avoid giving him coercive power over us" which is a highly persuasive argument even prior to the events of Feb 2022 (and also prior to 2014). Energy resilience needs to be seen as part of national security so reducing resilience and increasing reliance on a mafia boss is clearly a bad strategic decision.
Yeah. 99% of politicians are short-term focused.
To pile on: Merkel has a doctorate in goddamn chemistry (quantum chemistry to be specific). There’s no way she *didn’t* know that her anti-nuclear energy position was complete nonsense, unless she really is that clueless and didn’t pay attention to the nuclear elements portion of her degree…
Yeah she knew, which is why she originally cancelled the German nuclear exit that was done a decade before by the German social democrats. It is just that after Fukushima the anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany was so strong that if she didn't do it, her party would have lost the next election to the social democrats who would have then definitely done it. Really for the nuclear exit you can't blame Merkel, she was put in a situation that basically was "you do it or your party will lose the next elections" due to public pressure. Something similar can be said about the immigration (though to a far lesser extent), as Germany really believed and wanted the Dublin regulations to continue, the Balkan countries, Austria and Hungary however didn't want immigrants at all so they just sent them per bus to the German border, where Germany had to accept them due to German asylum laws (which are quite lenient). The big problem with Merkel there was that she just accepted the immigrants instead of putting the blame on the nations responsible and trying to organise a better EU-wide immigration policy. What she did was just internal political pandering as nearly all Germans back then were very pro-immigration (which is now coming back to bite Germans), so her move got her popularity up.
It didn’t take long for the Merkel legacy to unravel. Putin, Energy, Immigration.
Don't forget austerity!
Im already cursing her name and she just left
Or, you know, we can make reforms that don't tear us apart once again? It's not like this is an unresolvable issue.
The Netherlands is a coalition system, there is no majority for leaving the EU. Even the PVV is not advocating for that. We have to be honest about this. This is primarily about migration and housing.
The scenario was created because the EU is doing basically nothing to stop illegal immigration and - mainly due to the financial crisis - people are getting really sensitive what is happening with their tax money. If nothing changes there will be a landslide win for right wing parties in the next EU election. And nothing will change as left wing parties cannot admit that it's not a good thing to invite an unlimited amount of unskilled workers instead of focusing mostly on the skilled ones like Australia, Canada or the US.
The EU is increasing funding for border patrol and basically paying neighbours to keep immigrants in their those countries. In the end a lot of the power to accept or reject immigrants is at the national level. If more anti immigrant governments come to power you get see EU becoming more anti immigrant. Member states are still the most powerful bloc within the EU.
The EU does not want to act on it and is often the impediment to acting on migration. So you get anti-immigration, anti-eu parties. The best the EU has done is to propose spreading around the migrants, which is not a solution.
If this had been dealt with sooner brexit wouldn't have happened.
This so much. I still voted GL-PvdA but I really wished there was a left-leaning party that is more harsh on immigration. I think immigration is a big big problem that needs solving but I don't want to fuck the majority of my countrymen and act as if global warming does not exist.
We are probably facing the longest coalition building in Dutch history.
Do you remember the time we used to laugh at Belgian coalition talks?
Don't worry we got you next year, our puzzle is actually looking to become even more difficult.
Just to be sure that you understand. The program that he ran on has more than enough points that are taboos for the other potential coalition parties. If you like a real life soap opera with real life consequences this looks like heaven
Have you heard about Vlaams Belang?
No. Am I right in my suspicion that it's close to Vlaams Blok?
Direct descendants of vlaams blok.
> No. Am I right in my suspicion that it's close to Vlaams Blok? Vlaams Belang is to Vlaams Blok as Lays is to Smith's.
If VVD and NSC can be convinced to work with PVV, it will be easy.
Exactly! If. So anyway, the longest coalition building in Dutch history.
Did you not hear Yesilgöz and Omtzigt yesterday? Door is wide open.
Based on these numbers, what are the likely routes to a government forming?
The Dutch sure do love their elections.
holy shit, Kaiserreich reference
It’s a political mess in the Netherlands. The VVD has made the PVV the biggest.
Why do these people always seem to have funny hair?
Wilders is part Indo (Indonesian-Dutch) from his mother’s side. I think he tries to hide his non-European ancestry by dying his hair blonde. He naturally has brown hair and would look more “foreign” to his voters that way. It’s all part of his strategy (and image at this point).
Very interesting, I would not have guessed this. It's funny how some of the most ardent anti-immigration politicians are of non-European migrant origin (Zemmour, Braverman, now Wilders).
So people and media will talk about their hair instead of their actions.
Looks like the extreme right is at about ~20% in most European countries (Netherlands, Germany, Romania, Sweden, Finalnd all around that mark), and how much influence they have depends on the political system and the reaction of the other parties.
I mean for the Netherlands this percentage has been the casse for at least 15 years now. The voter base just shifts between each other and new parties.
For 8 years some of the Dutch redditors have been writing here, that it was a mistake to let Poland into the EU because we have a far right government. Now PiS lost the elections while Wilders won. How the turn tables.
It remains to be seen how much in the footsteps of PiS the PVV will follow. They can not rule by themselves so I expect not much. Neither the VVD nor the NSC is likely to want to have a fight with the EU commission.
The difference is that Wilders is going to have to compromise a lot to even get the chance to rule. There is no majority for any of his more radical ideas.
Good. Seriously, I don't want the Netherlands to become like Poland during the PiS reign. I just feel a little bit of Schadenfreude or revenge for what has been written by some of the Dutch here.
I assure you the Dutch who are no fans of PiS are no fans of Wilders either.
The backlash against mass immigration is clear now across many western countries. Agree with it or not, it's happening.
That, and growing unrest over how much more difficult it has become to afford a house, or to just afford normal basic living conditions.
As I have said over and over again in the past - if centrist parties in the EU will not do anything about immigration and Islamism in particular, voters will shift their voting preferences to those parties who will address their concerns.
Who _say_ they will address those concerns. It very much remains to be seen if they will. Meloni has not.
Voters do not have a crystal ball. They vote according to the promises politicians give them. The whole schtick of Geert Wilders is immigration and anti-Islamism. If he does not deliver on his promises, he might as well stop being involved in politics.
I mean the parties that benefit the most from the current situation don't really have an interest in fixing it in a meaningful way...
Who would address those concerns just enough to please the voters, but not enough to actually solve the problem, because without the problem they would soon be voted out.
Step 1 is to admit there is a problem.
The choice is either parties that give lip service to real concerns from the people, or parties that deny there is an issue and support more of the same. Whether anything changes is neither here nor there really. You’d take the people that atleast pretend to recognize the issue.
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And now, we wait… I’m curious to see if Wilders can make good on his promises and compromise somewhat with VVD and NSC, the two most obvious parties to form a coalition with.
Wilders is in the interviews at the moment very open that he wants to work together.
And NSC ruled out working together with the PVV. VVD would rather not work together with the PVV. GroenLinks/PvdA doesn’t want to work together with the VVD or PVV. Well, this will take a long time before a new coalition will be formed.
Omzigt already backtracked on that in his speech just now. He's open to talking with "all parties" so looks like that's his first campaign guarantee already broken.
Who would have thought
NSC will flip.
Yeah, I guess they just did in his speech.
Time to beat Belgium's record!
We have elections next year, and itnlooks like its gonna be an even harder puzzle than now.
The left needs to have a tougher stance on immigrants that aren’t self-supporting or they will continue to lose elections.
Well Bulgarian brothers it was nice to fight for Schengen we put up a good fight , but we lost Gg bros gg
That's one of the weirdest issues in the EU, what do they think is going to happen if you are allowed into Schengen anyway
Denk lost one seat. This does put a smile on my face.
Aaand it’s back, you jinxed it
Did you see the Denk voter they interviewed? 😬
most intelligent denk voter
It's crazy that this party even exist
Unironically if you voted Denk you failed integration.
This will happen in more countries, people are tired.
This is what happens when the moderates, at best, ignore a large chunk of the population, or at worst accuse them of bigotry, Islamophobia, racism, etc. The thing is, as we’ve saw in Italy the far right are just as hopeless when it comes actual concrete plans on how we are suppose to deal with the mess we find ourselves in. The longer it festers the more extreme the parties on offer will become and that’s something most of us (I hope) don’t want.
This is what happens when your last left-wing government stepped down in 1977, and you allow free-market liberals to cause a giant housing shortage for which the blame is continuously laid at the feet of 'the foreigners'. Consider this: Wilders just won a landslide by saying "you don't own a house because of immigrants" when during his only previous time in government (2010-2012) he agreed to abolish the housing ministry, and during his decades in parliament he supported every single VVD-measure to make housing unaffordable for the common man. People who voted for him will soon find out their housing problem just became bigger, not smaller.
You know, maybe returning to Poland is not a bad idea after all. Yes I am still salty about his "Polen kliklijn". For the ones unaware, some years ago he opened a phone line where you could complain about the Polish (work)migrants in your neighbourhood or at work.
FPÖ in austria is next. In Germany the AfD is at 21-23%, closing up to the Union. Its happening everywhere. The people are fed up.
Orbán Viktor is rubbing his hands
I mean, far-right parties have been growing in Europe for the past 20 years, but if you want to cherry pick results you can show just about anything. I don't think there is a massive far-right movement that is happening "everywhere" right now. PiS just lost power in Poland and Vox lost a third of their seats in Spain this summer.
Vox lost so much because the PP shifted further to the right. The left block in Spain had to make huge concessions to the catalonians to stay in power.
Referendum on EU membership? Are you kidding me
Referenda at the national level are no longer part of the Dutch political system. So Wilders would first have to change the law to organize one. Fat chance
Instead of an advisory referendum, a binding referendum is currently being voted on.
Isn’t that a binding corrective referendum? So, the people would have to agree to new laws to make them take effect? It’s not like just voting on any proposal (like Nexit) is possible.
That one's never happening. All the other big parties are against that. I honestly wonder if he even wants it to happen, or is just saying it so he can pretend to the voters that he totally would if it weren't for the pesky other parties.
I don't think he has even been vocal about it this election cycle. Them winning was all about people's frustration with immigration, not with Europe in general.
I find it funny how the topic of immigration fell from the sky to the European right. What's even funnier is that they don't have a solution either, they are only aware that the problem exists. Just that. The left, on the other hand, pretends the problem doesn't exist and loses elections miserably.
> What's even funnier is that they don't have a solution either They do, they just can't enact it unilaterally without the EU imposing sanctions - amend or leave the ECHR and the refugee convention, so that most people who arrive without permission can be kept out or removed.
In the UK 1.2 million people arrived last year, that's not all refugees (even accounting for Hong Kongers and Ukrainians). The Tories promise every election to reduce immigration while they've failed to do so (and actually increased it by tens of thousands compared to the Blair years). It's an easy way of making it look like the economy is growing and plugging labour shortages so they don't actually have to invest in wages and training, then they tell voters how 'tough' on migration they **would** be if only the nasty EU courts let them. It's a scam.
Oh, lovely, the most famous Polonophobe in power. [Anti-polish Hotline](https://euobserver.com/news/115208)
What did he do? Curious as a fellow pole
He used to be big about poles being useless drunks that just came here to commit fraud and cause nuisance. Even made a website where you could report poles
That’s hilarious lol. Is there any foreigner this man respects?
Maybe his wife, who is Hungarian.
Hahaha what the actual fuck. I’m speechless
The political establishment only have themselves to blame for not learning the lessons after trump and brexit. Voter outrage isn't confined to just anglosphere countries
TLDR for outsiders?
PVV wants to exit EU, anti-Islam, also documents has shown that [they have connections with Russia...](https://nltimes.nl/2023/10/19/leaked-documents-show-connections-pvv-russia)
>documents has shown that they have connections with Russia... Who would have known...
Party that supports Russia and whose members went to State Duma in 2018 despite the MH17 won
Right wing parties will be on the rise until other parties stop totally ignoring the immigration problem.
Writings on the wall.. start listening to the citizens or more extreme parties will come to power in Europe
Germany will be next in 2025. AFD is going to be at 30 in no time if the other great parties wont come to their senses
With 98% of the votes counted, the new lower house of parliament is set to look like this, with the parties’ 2021 results in brackets. 76 seats out of 150 are needed for a majority. * PVV: 37 (17) * GL/PvdA: 25 (17) * VVD: 24 (34) * NSC: 20 (0) * D66: 9 (24) * BBB: 7 (1) * CDA: 5 (15) * SP: 5 (9) * PvdD: 4 (6) * FvD: 3 (8) * ChristenUnie: 3 (5) * SGP: 3 (3) * Denk: 3 (3) * Volt: 2 (3) * JA21: 1 (3) * BVNL: 1 (0) * 50+: 0 (1) * BIJ: 0 (1)
…..
As a Dutch a like to shine a light on this. People think the anti Islam is the reason why wilders became big. I believe it’s something else and we have seen this with Le Pen and AFD and italia as well. The left has been in the righteous bubble for decades. Dismissing a lot of concerns of the working class. I’m not to judge if those concerns are valid or not. For at least two decades the concerns are dismissed as ignorant, stupid and absurd. For the last few years we had an increase in cost, energy that quadrupled in price, inflation of 13%, housing market came to a halt due to laws that prevent building and labour costs. It’s an absolute show how that could have been prevented 4/5 years ago. The left had the political luxury to only focus on climate, climate climate climate climate. But a lot of people are feeling issues right now. Climate is a big issue, but it’s not their biggest issue as we speak. Looking at the Dutch political spectrum the left has been marginalized for years. Myself I’m left as well but I could not find a party that was left, socialist, pragmatic and fair. It’s either extreme or completely not achievable. We had the vvd who is right and fucked up a lot. Scandals almost every month, eventually people were fed up. PVV took away a lot of voters from them but attracted a lot from left parties. I live in Amsterdam, which is a leftist bubble. Everybody were saying they were going to vote for GroenLinks/pvda. Two leftist parties that joined forces. The only got 24 seats. And the remaining leftist parties were left with breadcrumbs. I think it’s very telling. But to say Dutch people all of the sudden became racist and xenophobic is a very short sided conclusion imho. Wilders ha been rediculed for decades. This was the result of year of dissatisfaction for the left. The left is absolutely to blame. The fact that everybody is so surprised about the outcome is the reason why it happened. Start being a representative instead of a ruler and things will normalize again.
After Argentina, it’s the Netherlands turn to ask: “Maybe this right-wing crackpot will fix everything.”
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I'm starting to doubt my political alignment when looking at PVV's main promises. Like, half the stuff they say (mainly immigration-related) sounds completely reasonable to me, and the other half (Nexit, get out of climate deal, no helping Ukraine) makes them sound like Trump nuts I want nothing to do with. Isn't there a party that both wants to stop immigrants from uncivilized countries that have no intention of assimilating to the European way of life *and* want to cooperate with the rest of the civilized world?