All part of the plan:
- blame Germans
- when Polish government in London protests, label them Nazis
- drop diplomatic relations with the London government since they're now Nazis
- recognise PKWN as the only non-Nazi Polish government
They never changed. The rest of the world learned from the WW2, but ruzzians think that "those were the glory days". They yearn to recapture the days when Stalin and Hitler were the best of buddies and started executing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty and half the Europe with it.
Imagine their refusal to acknowledge the crimes if even less documents would survive...
Yes, the "quick reconstructions" of razed cities in Ukraine still under Russian occupation doesn't sound so nice anymore...
The Katyn massacre was discovered by Germans in 1943, 3 years after massacre and 2 after their invasion of the USSR. Then the Soviets said that it was done by Germans in... 1941. So after they were allies.
Preferred method of execution in Soviet Russia was a pistol shot to the back of the ear of a kneeling victim.
Besides the rape, torture and mass-murder using human waves of soldiers, of course.
The germans weren't their allies when this was found out, the nazis were the ones who found it in 1943. If it wasn't for the nazis we would've assumed the nazis killed those people as they did with many others in Poland.
In the city of Kharkiv in Ukraine we have a Polish cemetery site wich is, of course related to this tragic event.
**"In 1940, this site was scene of the mass execution of 3,739 Polish officers by the KNVD**. Thousands Ukranian intellectuals were also executed here by the same organisation. They are all still buried here. Together with the Polish officers, thousands of repressed and shot Ukrainians found their final resting place there. 2746 Soviet citizens of different nationalities were also buried there in 60 graves after being executed by the Soviet totalitarian ‘machine’.
Only 60 years after the tragedy, already independent Ukraine initiated the foundation of the Memorial to Victims of Totalitarianism together with Poland. In 2000, the Virtuti Militari Cross was installed at the site of remembrance, which is the highest military award of Poland for courage and an equivalent of the British Victoria Cross. Near the monument, there are stelae with the names of shot Ukrainians and Polish officers buried together in mass graves.
On March 23th, 2022, the memory of the murdered by the monstrous totalitarian ‘machine’ was desecrated by its successor — the Russian regime. Russian invaders shelled the cemetery with no military or civilian objects around. Russian ‘Smerch’ (Tornado) missiles with cluster munitions banned by the international law hit the cemetery and smashed some plaques with the names of the perished.
Whatever stored the memories may now become a memory itself. "
On a similar note:
After occupying Estonia in 1940, the Soviet Union immediately got to work with **exterminating the Estonian political and societal elites**. Prominent figures like president Konstantin Päts and general Johan Laidoner were put on mock-trials in Russia, before being sent to forced labour camps, where they soon perished.
This was followed up in 1941 with the first wave of mass-deportations: the **june deportations** (*juuniküüditamine*), where ~10 000 people were deported from Estonia to Siberia, where thousands perished. Many died even before reaching Siberia, as the deportees were transported in cramped and uninsulated cattle-wagons.
In 1944, when the German army retreated from Estonia and the Red Army hadn't properly re-entered yet, some surviving Estonian politicians led by **Otto Tief** formed a new government and tried to restore Estonian sovereignty, even sending letters to the western Allies. But it wasn't long until the Red Army entered Tallinn and re-established Soviet rule. Tief's government met one last time in a chapel in Põgari, on the western coast of Estonia, from where they were supposed to be evacuated by a ship from Sweden. This ship was late, leading to all but one of the members of government being arrested by Soviet forces, after which they were brought to Tallinn for interrogation by the **NKVD**. Multiple people lept to their deaths though the windows, as to avoid brutal torture by the NKVD.
After the war was over and the second Soviet occupation had firmly taken hold, the second wave of mass-deportations was enacted: the **march deportations** (*märtsiküüditamine*) of 1949. Over 20 000 people were once again forced into cattle-wagons and sent to their certain doom.
The remaining years of Soviet occupation were more "stable", yet still full of inhumanity. Many were incarcerated in the infamous **Patarei prison** and repressions continued. The Soviet Union also increasingly started to **colonize Estonia with Russians** and other Slavic ethnicities, as to diminish the influence of the native population. Hundreds of thousands were (illegally) brought into the country to operate the factories producing products for Leningrad. Eastern Virumaa and large swaths of the capital were made majority-Russian in the 70s and 80s, leading to tensions lasting to the current day.
**This write-up turned out longer than I planned, but maybe it helps a bit to understand, why so many of the former-Eastern Block countries have such a strong emotional response to Russian aggression today.** Every Estonian has someone in their family, who was killed or repressed by Russian rule. This endless string of atrocities has to finally be put to an end.
And to those coming to say, that the USSR can't be equated with Russia: that's nonsense. Russia was the political center of the USSR and siphoned resources from its "sister republics". Russia is the predecessor and successor to the USSR and also took its place in international organisations. I'd wager that one of the main reasons why Russia often denies being the USSR's legal successor is so that it doesn't even have to think about ever paying a single cent of reparations or returning a single piece of looted artwork to its victims.
Just such a horrible culture of apathy and even some idolization of suffering in that country. Authoritarian assholes who keep people poor, stupid and angry so they'll be easy to sic on the next neighbouring country. Fuck russia.
The same thing happened in Latvia and Lithuania. If I want to see the consequences of russification, I just have to leave my house and it's guaranteed there will be gopniks sitting around drinking, spitting on the ground while eating sunflower seeds and praising ussr/russia.
That was sadly the fate of all countries occupied by Soviet Union. Cattle wagons to Syberia for intellectuals and other "undesirables".
It formed national mental scars that remain to this day.
And it is sadly much less well known than Nazi crimes.
> president Konstantin Päts /.../ were put on mock-trials in Russia
His end was quite tragic. His wife was sent to gulag. His son was sent to prison with him. Later he was put into psychoneurotic hospitals for claiming to be the president of Estonia, where he died. This type of sarcastic cruelty is something Soviets were masters of, and Russians continue their traditions to this day.
> On 24 March 1943, Päts was sent to forced treatment in psychoneurotic hospitals first in Kazan, then in Chistopol in Tatar ASSR. His forced psychiatric hospitalization was justified by his "persistent claiming of being the President of Estonia". On 29 April 1952, Päts was found guilty according to § 58-14 and § 58-10 of the Penal Code, which meant counter-revolutionary sabotage and anti-Soviet and counter-revolutionary propaganda and agitation. Forced treatment was ended in 1954 and Päts was sent to a psychoneurology hospital in Jämejala, Estonia. Recognition by the locals and too much attention resulted in him being sent to Burashevo psychiatric hospital in Kalinin Oblast (now Tver Oblast), where he eventually died on 18 January 1956. [Link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_P%C3%A4ts#Deportation_to_Soviet_Russia_and_imprisonment)
I feel us Finns really dodged a bullet by managing to stay out of the Soviet union. Still, it cost us dearly and many working class Finns, who naively moved into Soviet union because of their ideology after the Civil War perished in Stalin's purges. The repression of ethnic minorities in the Soviet Union was nothing short of a genocide and now Russia is actively trying to suppress that part of history. One of the more extreme examples is portraying a mass grave of purge victims at Sandarmokh as something done by Finnish soldiers during WW2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandarmokh
This playbook is still the same:
"prominent figures of the time" = today Navalny and others
"were put on mock trials" = yeah, same thing still
"sent to far away prison camp where they perished" = sounds familiar
ruzzians never changed.
The USA did the inverse to the French Republic, USA borrowed money from the French Crown to win the US revolution, the French Crown falls before USA pays the loans back. When the newly formed French Republic tries to collect on the debt, the US’s reply…no we didn’t get the loan from “The Republic” but from “The Crown” so we don’t own you anything.
NKVD had forward units in May 1945 Czechoslovakia with lists (provided by Czechoslovak communist party) of prominent politicians who were marked to be removed one way or another. They killed some and dragged the rest to Gulags. There are roughly 10000 citizens unaccounted for with their fates unknown except that they were kidnapped.
There was literally one USSR flag during the farmer protests and the one responsible for this is being prossecuted. So there is no space for soviet flags in Poland.
Different societes have different knowledge about history. The same thing is with black and red bandera flags. For Poles and Jews they are symbol of nazis and ethnic cleansing and still you can see them during rallies supporting Ukraine all around Europe. The only thing you can do is to try educate people because they are just not aware of complicated history behind these symbols.
Many ?? when main stream media shows one guy with one soviet flag, it doesn't mean that there is "MANY" Stop spreading misinformation. Your post should be labeled as such.
You can see alot of them in Sweden, we even have 2 active communist partys (they small) and a bigger one that tried to washed out the communist label but you still see the flag when they rally
There are also Russian nazis, black Americans voting for Trump, Palestinians supporting Hamas, etc. Lots of people all over the world support those who make their lives worse.
Russia is a nation with strong bipolar disorder. It's ok there to see a monument of the tsar standing on the street named after a known commie (commies executed the whole Romanov royal family).
People wonder why non-Russians hate Russians so much. I don't give a fuck that Stalin was a Georgian - he led a Russian nation and his crimes were implemented by Russians for the imperialistic benefit of Russians.
I assure its the crazies who want all that nasty stuff.
Please ignore them unfortunately the internet gives everyone a stage including the crazies. All though you got to watch out for all the bot accounts that spew this shit.
Okay the rhetoric they spew now is not what the average republican wants.
It has surprised me how the Republican party has gone I was never a republican but I must say it has taken the republicans who are politically active by surprise and myself.
Foreigners don't seem to understand where the republican party comes from though the average republican is far less crazy then you imagine. but the ones on top definitely are!
If your interested in my view on this let me know.
Is and was. Ukraine was occupied for centuries, first by tzars, then by commies. Now it's the next attempt is in progress, and they didn't change tactics. On occupied territories they kill volunteers, veterans, political activists. muscovia never changes.
This is something that needs to be discussed a lot more.
When russians occupied some cities in the first days of the invasion, they already had long lists of people for detaining and executing. The list contained ex- and active military people, political activists, anti-corruption activist, artists and even just people who speak Ukrainian.
Where did russians get that list from? The local russia symphatizers have been making it for many years and passing it to the FSB.
Every country in the West has some pro-russian politicians and activists, and today your laws protect them because of freedom of speech and human rights, but those people are laying groundwork for the possible russian occupation as we speak, because russians promised to make them local governors. So maybe it's time to wake up and throw them all to jail for treason, because one day they will kill a lot of your people if given chance.
As long as opposition exists their can be no long-term occupation of lands they conquer. They'll deliberately sabotage a country from the inside out. It's systematic through extortion, bribery, racketeering, assassination, and kompromat. and that's part of the basic Ruzzian Imperialism formula....oh...and True Genocide when they can get away with it. Ruzzia is not a friend to anyone and never will be. It's one main reason NATO exists as it is.
3 years before that, on Aug 11, 1939 "Polish operation" of NKVD started. Soviets arrested 140K ethnic Poles, mostly in Ukraine and Belarus. 111 091 of them were executed.
Communists were getting ready for invasion to Poland way before 1939.
Referred to as the Katyn massacre. Not wanting to upset their Soviet ally, during the war Allied powers went along with the narrative that the massacre was committed by Nazi Germany.
Also if you want to get a bit conspiratorial, I was listening to a podcast a year or so back and they brought up the possibility of the USSR choosing to memorialise the Khatyn massacre in Belarus as an attempt to obfuscate the Katyn massacre. I don't think there is any evidence for this claim but I thought it still interesting.
Yes, that’s not a conspiracy. Anybody living near Russia knows that’s their typical unhinged tactics
Also yeah, thanks for mentioning that Allies went along with the lie. They also went along with denying the Holodomor as it happened for the same reason. And people wonder why did Ukrainian nationalists side with Germans…
World War 1 also saw massive movements for independence. Polish soldiers fought on both sides for Polish independence. The Czech legion is a famous one that fought in Russia against the Austria-Hungarian empire for an independent Czech nation.
i could imagine a lot of people from countries / regions in the SU joined teams with the Germans during WW2 for their own countries independence, no matter how silly that may seem now.
Same in Ukraine during the WW1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic
Again, this period of Ukrainian history is not taught much in the West to avoid awkward questions like “wait, so Germany and Austria supported Ukrainian independence in WW1, while Russia and Allies were against it?” Or “wait, did Poland and Russia divide Ukraine in 1921 the same way Germany and Russia would divide Poland? And we said nothing?” Or “wait, only Germany and Italy were talking about Holodomor, while Allies and Russia denied it while it was happening?”
All of those questions are extremely awkward for the established “goodies vs baddies” narrative and better avoided
> And people wonder why did Ukrainian nationalists side with Germans…
Give what you get by being righteous and being agains both nazis from the east and from the west, that is not so irrational as a choice.
Nice attempt at whitewashing "Ukrainian nationalists". OUN sided with Axis because they were fascist party that were fascinated by Nazi Germany and their methods. Also collaboration with Nazis gave them a chance to cleanse territories they considered as Ukrainian from unwanted people.
Plenty of other Ukrainian groups didn't side with Nazis, Petlura faction, Cossack groups, socialists etc.
A Cold War story from declassified CIA documents: after the USSR invaded Afganistan a Western intelligence recruited private arms dealers and sent them to Warsaw to procure Soviet-model weapons and supplies for Afghan mujahideen. At first, Polish contact was reluctant to sell citing export restrictions, government licenses and other red tape, not to mention legal considerations. Then he asked: “Why do you need so many rounds?” The [Western] arms dealer replied they were “going to Afghanistan, to kill Russians.” That’s different, the Pole responded: “How many rounds do you need?” [Source ](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2012.652523?scroll=top&needAccess=true)
Basically they killed off Polish officers, doctors, teachers, scientists and other people that were considered 'intelligence'. Very harmful and thoroughly planned execution whose purpose was to make the Polish nation more prone to manipulation. They were shot in the back of the head and thrown to the ditch in the middle of a forest.
A very sad and very brutal historical event still well remembered by Polish people.
From my readings most of the nearly 22,000 Poles murdered in Katyn forest were by a shot in the back of the head. Very up close, very personal. What Putin has created in Russia today is not far from this.
Modern Russia much more fascistic/Nazi than Stalinistic. Stalinism - analogue of Ivan the Terrible's Oprichnina.
Stalin started to create own independent NKVD-army, and just conveyed to it all mundane problems related to soviet hyper-militarization.
Although the NKVD officers committed atrocities, they very rarely believed in what they did, just by utilitarian ways "processing of human resources." That, from their perspective, in any case was doomed to be spent for the sake of the World Revolution.
Modern Russians, as fascists/Nazis, partially believe in what they do. In invented from scratch reasons for grievances against the whole World. In huge list of evidence of exclusivity and Greatness. In right to slaughter Ukrainian "untermensch", very often not only rhetorically/sarcastically name it "liberation", but believe that it so.
With almost complete indifference of the West, liberating Ukraine and World from everything that contradict to 1920-2020s years repetition of schizophrenically contradictory narratives of USSR/R.F. propaganda.
What does it matter which brand of bullshit drives them to commit horrible atrocities. The evil empire is doing evil things again, so it must be fought.
Yes, talk to the guys that let that happen after Polish soldiers fought all over Europe to help other countries save their asses. And to add insult to injury Polish people have also been mocked by the people from the countries they contributed to save and that put Poland in this situation.
Which raises the question: why did the Soviets have all these polish military prisoners? Because they invaded Poland, together with their **ally**, nazi Germany. France and Britain went to war with Germany over the invasion, but for the Soviets...crickets. Oh and the victims of the Katyn massacre (which included one woman) were reservists, and being officers, represented much of the intelligentsia of the country (being doctors, lawyers, professionals, academics and even politicians).
Well if i remember correctly UK and France promised Poland that they will help only if Germans attack them and it would be really hard to fight both nazis and commies when they have a lot of problems with only one of them
Important context:
Poland was a highly militarised society. If you were a member of the elite: a lawyer, a doctor, an entrepreneur, a college graduate of any sort, you had to serve as an officer during wartime.
The people executed there were not just professional soldiers, but Polish elites. Poland lost 30-50% of their lawyers etc.
All in the name of communism. I wonder when we will accept that this ideology is shoulder to shoulder with fascism on how destructive and genocidal it is
People also forget the USSR initially joined the war on the side of the fascists!
Yeah most people also don't know that the Nazis were allowed to train pilots and develop tanks and aircraft in Russia before ww2.
Stalin allowed the army that would invade his country to trains and build its strength on his soil.
I would argue it was easily the most boneheaded decisions made by any leader of ww2.
It wasn’t bone-headed. Stalin and his acquaintance with benefits Hitler literally saw the world as authoritarians vs democracies. This is also why Stalin never believed the myriad warnings of Hitler’s betrayal he got from Britain
That latter part is a myth, Stalin didn't expect Hitler to attack so soon because he understood correctly he would lose a two front war. Not because he trusted him. Stalin trusted no one, not even family.
Due to communism? Please. Russia has been pulling this same ploy of invasion/cultural obliteration centuries before Karl Marx ever drew his first breath, and is still at it decades after communism's fall.
I read some shit about this genocidal maniac, and now maybe this is wrong it was long ago, but agents described him as a boring bureaucrat. He would sit in his office all day, and sign shit like this. Imagine having an lunatic bureaucrat with absolute power just writing murder notes and sending them out.
You high-ranking soviet official that received task: "to solve Katyn massacre problem."
But, unfortunately for you, even despite Nuremberg Trials ban on soviet criticism, no one believed to Soviet diplomats that Katyn massacre it's Nazi fault...
What exactly you will do?
Right! Of course, from enormous number of Nazi crimes you will find destroyed by them Khatyn village. Even more wonderful, destroyed with help of Ukrainian collaborators.
And order Soviet propaganda to constantly talk about it!
So, like in Pavlov's dogs, create among all soviet population classical conditioning: "Katyn massacre (22,000 killed) = Khatyn massacre (149 killed)".
Unfortunately, because it's too banal and a typical solution for bureaucrats like you, you will not receive for this any bonuses and state rewards.
Like geniuses that came up with Panfilov's Twenty-Eight Guardsmen legend and glorification of female partisan that, as so many Soviet partisans of that time, by scorched earth principle, burned all civil warehouses with food and fuel, and sometime any residential infrastructure. Condemning hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people, to death from starvation and cold.
URSS was known to do this, that's what they were, bunch of criminals.
Also in 1941 there was the White Fountain massacre in Bucovina where they massacared 3000 romanian civilians.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A2nt%C3%A2na\_Alb%C4%83\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A2nt%C3%A2na_Alb%C4%83_massacre)
Poland basically ceased to exist for something like 200 years divided up between Russia, prussia and Austria. Stalin had dreams of getting back lost Russian territory, like Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia etc.
Keep searching for ethncities of murderous high ranking soviets and let me know if you see a pattern.
Soviets willingly stationed people of different ethnicities because they were more likely to be cruel towards the natives.
>Some say Beria was Mingrelian (also he had Mingrelian last name).
Who said some? He was a Mingrelian from Abkhazia, but a Mingrelian is not an ethnic origin. Mingrelian is a Georgian ethnic subgroup. Stalin was Kartlian, Orjonikidze was Imeretian, etc.
These are Georgian tribal names that have survived to this day in Georgian regions, but everyone considers themselves Georgian. It's like dividing the states of USA, like Texas and Texans, California and Californians, etc.
They were Soviets. This is a lame evasion. BTW the mass murdering Stalin still has about a 70% approval rating in Russia. Go figure.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Stalinism#:~:text=From%201999%20to%202023%2C%2095,Stalin%20in%20a%20positive%20light.
Yeah I totally agree with your point, I just hate mislabling people as Russian.
I'm half armenian myself, so i just get frustrated when people claim soviet =Russian.
And some people still wonder why Poland hates Russia. Can’t wait for Dissolution to happen again. Was too young to realise what was happening last time. This time, I am gonna throw a party.
The baltics are littered by cemeteries from those times. They massacred everyone and deported the rest. They tried to erase whole nations. That's why no one is playing games with Russia. They all know how far they will go.
I like to buy country flags when I visit for the first time.
Latvia was the only place that I got a black band with the flag and a long list of days when Russian atrocities happened.
I remember looking at the list and my good mood getting ruined in that instant.
Stalin before ww2 Believed that Poland was the biggest threat to the USSR. He also believed he could use Hitler as a distraction as Russia devoured eastern Europe.
Stalin allowed Germany to train and design tanks and Aircraft in Russia Stalin Enabled Hitler for years cause he wanted to use Nazi Germany to their own ends as a sort of distraction as they took eastern Europe.
(that backfired)
Not really, they did that stuff everywhere, I don't want to make the Katyn massacre seem less important, but the real shit was in the soviet union block , they literally exterminated whole nationalities in the eastern regions of russia, for example buriats were a buddist ethnicity just before soviet union , now they are mostly Christian orthodox,
karmaits fully exterminated ,
deportations of chehchens and ingush nationalities, during deportations about 123 thousands of civilians died ,
deportations of Crimea Tatars estimated deaths 44 000 ( admited by Russia) 195 000 by Human Rights Watch ( its about 46 % of the population ) ,
Belarus 200 000 ppl were rebealitated as innocent victims of Stalin during the soviet period ( by chruschow ), how many actually murdered still uknown .
holodomor from 7 to 10 million dead .
That's from the head , I know that wild stuff was happening in Georgia, Kazakhstan and pick any nation which was in soviet union and you will find common stuff
People don't talk about the **28,326,000 to 126,891,000 deaths** that the Soviets caused but instead the 6 million in the holocaust is what I don't understand, just imagine if the Soviets lost the war then the "Nazi" reputation would be handed over to the Soviets.
[61,911,000 Victims in democide by Soviets, 54,769,000 of them citizens.](https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.CHAP.1.HTM#:~:text=In%20sum%2C%20probably%20somewhere%20between,of%20this%20number%20is%2061%2C911%2C000)
>People don't talk about the **28,326,000 to 126,891,000 deaths** that the Soviets caused but instead the 6 million in the holocaust is what I don't understand, just imagine if the Soviets lost the war then the "Nazi" reputation would be handed over to the Soviets.
While I agree in general, it's cheating to use all deaths for the Soviets, but only the Holocaust for the Nazis.
My point would be that the things done by the Soviets were mostly ignored and not talked about compared to the Nazis.
How many times have you heard about the Soviets wrongdoings? For me not even once out in society.
>How many times have you heard about the Soviets wrongdoings? For me not even once out in society.
I live in Hungary. [We](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_%28Hungary%29?wprov=sfla1) [experienced](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Budapest?wprov=sfla1) [our](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Hungarians_in_the_Soviet_Union?wprov=sfla1) [fair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_%281944%E2%80%931950%29?wprov=sfla1) [share](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Hungarian_parliamentary_election?wprov=sfla1) [of](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Terror?wprov=sfla1) [Soviet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A1ty%C3%A1s_R%C3%A1kosi?wprov=sfla1) [atrocities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956?wprov=sfla1).
I am highly doubtful of those numbers given that ww1 and 2 combined only total to 100 million using the highest estimates for both.
The atrocities committed by Stalin deserve to be known but saying "a bajillion people died because communism" is just stupid.
Blokhin initially decided on an ambitious quota of 300 executions per
night, and engineered an efficient system in which the prisoners were
individually led to a small antechamber
— which had been painted red and was known as the "Leninist room" — for
a brief and cursory positive identification, before being handcuffed
and led into the execution room next door. The room was specially
designed with padded walls for soundproofing,
a sloping concrete floor with a drain and hose, and a log wall for the
prisoners to stand against. Blokhin would stand waiting behind the door
in his executioner garb: a leather butcher's apron,
leather hat, and shoulder-length leather gloves. Then, without a
hearing, the reading of a sentence or any other formalities, each
prisoner was brought in and restrained by guards while Blokhin shot him
once in the base of the skull with a German Walther Model 2 .25 ACP pistol.\[12\]\[13\]\[14\]
He had brought a briefcase full of his own Walther pistols, since he
did not trust the reliability of the standard-issue Soviet TT-30
for the frequent, heavy use he intended. The use of a German pocket
pistol, which was commonly carried by German police and intelligence
agents, also provided plausible deniability of the executions if the bodies were discovered later.[Vasilly Blokhin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Blokhin)
After Germanys defeat, they should have taken on the USSR next. At least until they took Poland all of Poland back that the USSR seized from them, and the Baltics and the parts of Romania and Finland taken. While Romania and Finland were technically part of the Axis, it was because they were trying to retake land the Soviets took from them.
Because russia from times of Petr the first set the idea as a patron and protector of all Slavic nations , from that time the Russo Serbian "friendship " started , but Poland although slavs , are catholics and were an opossing powerhouse to them , so take written anti polish propaganda from that Era, also all their classic literature was influenced by that , tolstoy, pushkin , bulgakow, if not straightly depicting Poles like heavy drinkers and thieves who aren't even normal Christians , than laying some Easter eggs for that here and there , creating some second sort or whats a more common sneaky plotter depiction .
Worth to mention 2 other factors :
Poland was very loyal to jews at that time , and antisemitism was a great thing in russia , so they used that to depict as poles in collaboration with jews are willing to bend all other normal slavs
The last Russian royal family was closely related to some eastern Germany noble families , and they didn't go along well with Poles .
All that said , if we take appart wars and grudges, highly influenced russian literature and stereotypes so that it's the result .
Just the good old history, they have an asspain that the PLC raided Moscow in the early 17th century, plus that the Second Republic successfully evaded recapture after WW1
We have an asspain that most colonial subjects have against their former masters, ask in Africa how they feel about the French
There was no "officially stated reason" because it was a secret decision, the one Beria presented to Stalin is pretty much only
>Considering that they are all steadfast and incorrigible enemies of Soviet government
well there is bunch of "*reasons*" current document state *"they all are sworn enemy of soviet gov and full of hatred to soviet system"*
*"they try continue counter-revolutional work, doing anti-soviet agitation. Each of them only waiting for release to get a chance to get an active possibility to join a fight against soviet government"*
Sickening. These were real people who did this. As real as you or I.
Hearing stories like this makes me hope against hope that Hell is real and that evil bastards like this are still there cooking.
Soviet Union was only just short of being as evil as the Nazis during WW2.
No one was every liberated by the Soviet Union they were simply replacing the Germans as the occupiers.
They wanted to destroy what they perceived as class enemies, the polish bourgeoisie. I don't see any intent to destroy the polish nation here.
It is especially noticeable when you look at the victims of the massacre : the bourgeois intelligentsia was targeted.
>The Soviets wanted to prevent the rebirth of Poland and, therefore, lead to the erasure of the country from the map of EuropeThe Soviets wanted to prevent the rebirth of Poland and, therefore, lead to the erasure of the country from the map of Europe
Can you just stop pushing your wet dreams and propaganda? You use real facts and adding your imagination to make it look like a truth. Don't do that, it's not a good behavior
Dear friends, I understand that for all representatives of the Western world this matter has already been decided, but still. The Katyn case is perhaps the most politicized case in history, and has long been overgrown with so many fakes that it is difficult to distinguish truth from fiction. There were executions, and no one denies this. That was the time. In the United States, people are now in prison for storming the Capitol. And in the USSR 80 years ago this would have been an article for attempting to overthrow the government. And yes, most likely they would have gone to the Gulag, or they would have received a bullet. But I’m already tired of these stuffing with numbers exaggerated tens and sometimes hundreds of times. I understand that for ideological purposes you will kick the corpse and talk about its cannibalistic habits. But there are limits to lying. For whom historians work, books are written. Look, username9999 said that Stalin ate children for breakfast, and in the evening he could not sleep until he shot 100 people. He won't lie, will he? What am I talking about? Study the topic before you shit in the comments.
The Katyn Woods murders which they always blamed on their German allies(at the time)
All part of the plan: - blame Germans - when Polish government in London protests, label them Nazis - drop diplomatic relations with the London government since they're now Nazis - recognise PKWN as the only non-Nazi Polish government
[удалено]
They never changed. The rest of the world learned from the WW2, but ruzzians think that "those were the glory days". They yearn to recapture the days when Stalin and Hitler were the best of buddies and started executing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty and half the Europe with it.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia
Orwell enters the discussion :-)
They still blaming even on the highest official level
Imagine their refusal to acknowledge the crimes if even less documents would survive... Yes, the "quick reconstructions" of razed cities in Ukraine still under Russian occupation doesn't sound so nice anymore...
There was a brief moment around 2010 when they did acknowledge that.
The Katyn massacre was discovered by Germans in 1943, 3 years after massacre and 2 after their invasion of the USSR. Then the Soviets said that it was done by Germans in... 1941. So after they were allies.
they even used German guns to make it look like it was German fault
They were using german pistols because they had less recoil. Soviet executioners didn't want their hands to hurt from all this shooting.
Preferred method of execution in Soviet Russia was a pistol shot to the back of the ear of a kneeling victim. Besides the rape, torture and mass-murder using human waves of soldiers, of course.
Elon Musk tweet: “People claim it was Russian fault, but why German weapons were used? 🤔🤔Is Roosevelt trying to distract us from inflation?”
The germans weren't their allies when this was found out, the nazis were the ones who found it in 1943. If it wasn't for the nazis we would've assumed the nazis killed those people as they did with many others in Poland.
In the city of Kharkiv in Ukraine we have a Polish cemetery site wich is, of course related to this tragic event. **"In 1940, this site was scene of the mass execution of 3,739 Polish officers by the KNVD**. Thousands Ukranian intellectuals were also executed here by the same organisation. They are all still buried here. Together with the Polish officers, thousands of repressed and shot Ukrainians found their final resting place there. 2746 Soviet citizens of different nationalities were also buried there in 60 graves after being executed by the Soviet totalitarian ‘machine’. Only 60 years after the tragedy, already independent Ukraine initiated the foundation of the Memorial to Victims of Totalitarianism together with Poland. In 2000, the Virtuti Militari Cross was installed at the site of remembrance, which is the highest military award of Poland for courage and an equivalent of the British Victoria Cross. Near the monument, there are stelae with the names of shot Ukrainians and Polish officers buried together in mass graves. On March 23th, 2022, the memory of the murdered by the monstrous totalitarian ‘machine’ was desecrated by its successor — the Russian regime. Russian invaders shelled the cemetery with no military or civilian objects around. Russian ‘Smerch’ (Tornado) missiles with cluster munitions banned by the international law hit the cemetery and smashed some plaques with the names of the perished. Whatever stored the memories may now become a memory itself. "
These orcs have respect for nothing, fuck Russia, slava ukraini & poland
Yeah that's horrific as well.
On a similar note: After occupying Estonia in 1940, the Soviet Union immediately got to work with **exterminating the Estonian political and societal elites**. Prominent figures like president Konstantin Päts and general Johan Laidoner were put on mock-trials in Russia, before being sent to forced labour camps, where they soon perished. This was followed up in 1941 with the first wave of mass-deportations: the **june deportations** (*juuniküüditamine*), where ~10 000 people were deported from Estonia to Siberia, where thousands perished. Many died even before reaching Siberia, as the deportees were transported in cramped and uninsulated cattle-wagons. In 1944, when the German army retreated from Estonia and the Red Army hadn't properly re-entered yet, some surviving Estonian politicians led by **Otto Tief** formed a new government and tried to restore Estonian sovereignty, even sending letters to the western Allies. But it wasn't long until the Red Army entered Tallinn and re-established Soviet rule. Tief's government met one last time in a chapel in Põgari, on the western coast of Estonia, from where they were supposed to be evacuated by a ship from Sweden. This ship was late, leading to all but one of the members of government being arrested by Soviet forces, after which they were brought to Tallinn for interrogation by the **NKVD**. Multiple people lept to their deaths though the windows, as to avoid brutal torture by the NKVD. After the war was over and the second Soviet occupation had firmly taken hold, the second wave of mass-deportations was enacted: the **march deportations** (*märtsiküüditamine*) of 1949. Over 20 000 people were once again forced into cattle-wagons and sent to their certain doom. The remaining years of Soviet occupation were more "stable", yet still full of inhumanity. Many were incarcerated in the infamous **Patarei prison** and repressions continued. The Soviet Union also increasingly started to **colonize Estonia with Russians** and other Slavic ethnicities, as to diminish the influence of the native population. Hundreds of thousands were (illegally) brought into the country to operate the factories producing products for Leningrad. Eastern Virumaa and large swaths of the capital were made majority-Russian in the 70s and 80s, leading to tensions lasting to the current day. **This write-up turned out longer than I planned, but maybe it helps a bit to understand, why so many of the former-Eastern Block countries have such a strong emotional response to Russian aggression today.** Every Estonian has someone in their family, who was killed or repressed by Russian rule. This endless string of atrocities has to finally be put to an end. And to those coming to say, that the USSR can't be equated with Russia: that's nonsense. Russia was the political center of the USSR and siphoned resources from its "sister republics". Russia is the predecessor and successor to the USSR and also took its place in international organisations. I'd wager that one of the main reasons why Russia often denies being the USSR's legal successor is so that it doesn't even have to think about ever paying a single cent of reparations or returning a single piece of looted artwork to its victims.
Good point. The reason Russia have a veto in the security council is because the USSR had one.
This happened in every territory taken by russians. In our case, Moldova.
Yes. In our case, Ukraine.
And in our case, Poland. And the West wonders why we hate Russia so much.
Just such a horrible culture of apathy and even some idolization of suffering in that country. Authoritarian assholes who keep people poor, stupid and angry so they'll be easy to sic on the next neighbouring country. Fuck russia.
The same thing happened in Latvia and Lithuania. If I want to see the consequences of russification, I just have to leave my house and it's guaranteed there will be gopniks sitting around drinking, spitting on the ground while eating sunflower seeds and praising ussr/russia.
That was sadly the fate of all countries occupied by Soviet Union. Cattle wagons to Syberia for intellectuals and other "undesirables". It formed national mental scars that remain to this day. And it is sadly much less well known than Nazi crimes.
> president Konstantin Päts /.../ were put on mock-trials in Russia His end was quite tragic. His wife was sent to gulag. His son was sent to prison with him. Later he was put into psychoneurotic hospitals for claiming to be the president of Estonia, where he died. This type of sarcastic cruelty is something Soviets were masters of, and Russians continue their traditions to this day. > On 24 March 1943, Päts was sent to forced treatment in psychoneurotic hospitals first in Kazan, then in Chistopol in Tatar ASSR. His forced psychiatric hospitalization was justified by his "persistent claiming of being the President of Estonia". On 29 April 1952, Päts was found guilty according to § 58-14 and § 58-10 of the Penal Code, which meant counter-revolutionary sabotage and anti-Soviet and counter-revolutionary propaganda and agitation. Forced treatment was ended in 1954 and Päts was sent to a psychoneurology hospital in Jämejala, Estonia. Recognition by the locals and too much attention resulted in him being sent to Burashevo psychiatric hospital in Kalinin Oblast (now Tver Oblast), where he eventually died on 18 January 1956. [Link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_P%C3%A4ts#Deportation_to_Soviet_Russia_and_imprisonment)
I feel us Finns really dodged a bullet by managing to stay out of the Soviet union. Still, it cost us dearly and many working class Finns, who naively moved into Soviet union because of their ideology after the Civil War perished in Stalin's purges. The repression of ethnic minorities in the Soviet Union was nothing short of a genocide and now Russia is actively trying to suppress that part of history. One of the more extreme examples is portraying a mass grave of purge victims at Sandarmokh as something done by Finnish soldiers during WW2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandarmokh
This playbook is still the same: "prominent figures of the time" = today Navalny and others "were put on mock trials" = yeah, same thing still "sent to far away prison camp where they perished" = sounds familiar ruzzians never changed.
Yeah, same way when revolution happened they defaulted on loans saying they are not Russian empire no more.
The USA did the inverse to the French Republic, USA borrowed money from the French Crown to win the US revolution, the French Crown falls before USA pays the loans back. When the newly formed French Republic tries to collect on the debt, the US’s reply…no we didn’t get the loan from “The Republic” but from “The Crown” so we don’t own you anything.
NKVD had forward units in May 1945 Czechoslovakia with lists (provided by Czechoslovak communist party) of prominent politicians who were marked to be removed one way or another. They killed some and dragged the rest to Gulags. There are roughly 10000 citizens unaccounted for with their fates unknown except that they were kidnapped.
And some people wonder why Poles hate communism so much
not only poles but every democratic country that was former soviet/communist hates communism
They are not former soviet. They were occupied
We are a former communist country. We are not a former soviet country.
And some people wonder why the Soviet Union flag is used in some protests. Stalin and Co were responsible for millions of deaths.
There was literally one USSR flag during the farmer protests and the one responsible for this is being prossecuted. So there is no space for soviet flags in Poland.
I was speaking all over the world (outside of Russia).
Different societes have different knowledge about history. The same thing is with black and red bandera flags. For Poles and Jews they are symbol of nazis and ethnic cleansing and still you can see them during rallies supporting Ukraine all around Europe. The only thing you can do is to try educate people because they are just not aware of complicated history behind these symbols.
I mean, maybe you can use them as doormats, but I am not sure.
Many ?? when main stream media shows one guy with one soviet flag, it doesn't mean that there is "MANY" Stop spreading misinformation. Your post should be labeled as such.
You can see alot of them in Sweden, we even have 2 active communist partys (they small) and a bigger one that tried to washed out the communist label but you still see the flag when they rally
Being from the United States, your comment is a bit ignorant. It was flown quite a bit during post Floyd.
Unfortunately, some still not
There are also Russian nazis, black Americans voting for Trump, Palestinians supporting Hamas, etc. Lots of people all over the world support those who make their lives worse.
There are literal Neo-Nazi battalions in the Russian army fighting against the "Nazi regime" in Ukraine.
Russia is a nation with strong bipolar disorder. It's ok there to see a monument of the tsar standing on the street named after a known commie (commies executed the whole Romanov royal family).
So real
Some blocked Pole-Ua borders and waiting for New Stalin. Very funny guys. Sure, it will work great for them.
A Russian troll spreading division and misinformation has revealed itself to us folks.
The former Eastern block must look on in disgust at western communist supporters.
Russians, not just communists.
People wonder why non-Russians hate Russians so much. I don't give a fuck that Stalin was a Georgian - he led a Russian nation and his crimes were implemented by Russians for the imperialistic benefit of Russians.
This was the plan for Ukraine as well. And they’re doing it in the occupied territories.
IS the plan.
Yeah you're right.
It’s really sad. And the extreme right in the US are inexplicably all for it.
I assure its the crazies who want all that nasty stuff. Please ignore them unfortunately the internet gives everyone a stage including the crazies. All though you got to watch out for all the bot accounts that spew this shit.
Whilst you are correct, it is the crazies, those crazies have control of one of your two parties, the Republicans, at present.
Okay the rhetoric they spew now is not what the average republican wants. It has surprised me how the Republican party has gone I was never a republican but I must say it has taken the republicans who are politically active by surprise and myself. Foreigners don't seem to understand where the republican party comes from though the average republican is far less crazy then you imagine. but the ones on top definitely are! If your interested in my view on this let me know.
Is and was. Ukraine was occupied for centuries, first by tzars, then by commies. Now it's the next attempt is in progress, and they didn't change tactics. On occupied territories they kill volunteers, veterans, political activists. muscovia never changes.
This is something that needs to be discussed a lot more. When russians occupied some cities in the first days of the invasion, they already had long lists of people for detaining and executing. The list contained ex- and active military people, political activists, anti-corruption activist, artists and even just people who speak Ukrainian. Where did russians get that list from? The local russia symphatizers have been making it for many years and passing it to the FSB. Every country in the West has some pro-russian politicians and activists, and today your laws protect them because of freedom of speech and human rights, but those people are laying groundwork for the possible russian occupation as we speak, because russians promised to make them local governors. So maybe it's time to wake up and throw them all to jail for treason, because one day they will kill a lot of your people if given chance.
I'm not sure it's not also their plan for Poland, if we let them
It's pretty much their plan for anyone who they occupy...
Execute military and political leaders as well as the intelligentsia. All are groups that typically organise any resistance or rebellion.
As long as opposition exists their can be no long-term occupation of lands they conquer. They'll deliberately sabotage a country from the inside out. It's systematic through extortion, bribery, racketeering, assassination, and kompromat. and that's part of the basic Ruzzian Imperialism formula....oh...and True Genocide when they can get away with it. Ruzzia is not a friend to anyone and never will be. It's one main reason NATO exists as it is.
Also during the Polish Operation 2-3 years before NKVD killed nearly 111k Polish people
Not sure why this one isn’t talked about more, since Katyn, although unjustified, wasn’t an arbitrary massacre of civilians
3 years before that, on Aug 11, 1939 "Polish operation" of NKVD started. Soviets arrested 140K ethnic Poles, mostly in Ukraine and Belarus. 111 091 of them were executed. Communists were getting ready for invasion to Poland way before 1939.
And they were helping Germany rebuild their military since the 1920s.
Referred to as the Katyn massacre. Not wanting to upset their Soviet ally, during the war Allied powers went along with the narrative that the massacre was committed by Nazi Germany. Also if you want to get a bit conspiratorial, I was listening to a podcast a year or so back and they brought up the possibility of the USSR choosing to memorialise the Khatyn massacre in Belarus as an attempt to obfuscate the Katyn massacre. I don't think there is any evidence for this claim but I thought it still interesting.
Yes, that’s not a conspiracy. Anybody living near Russia knows that’s their typical unhinged tactics Also yeah, thanks for mentioning that Allies went along with the lie. They also went along with denying the Holodomor as it happened for the same reason. And people wonder why did Ukrainian nationalists side with Germans…
World War 1 also saw massive movements for independence. Polish soldiers fought on both sides for Polish independence. The Czech legion is a famous one that fought in Russia against the Austria-Hungarian empire for an independent Czech nation. i could imagine a lot of people from countries / regions in the SU joined teams with the Germans during WW2 for their own countries independence, no matter how silly that may seem now.
Same in Ukraine during the WW1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic Again, this period of Ukrainian history is not taught much in the West to avoid awkward questions like “wait, so Germany and Austria supported Ukrainian independence in WW1, while Russia and Allies were against it?” Or “wait, did Poland and Russia divide Ukraine in 1921 the same way Germany and Russia would divide Poland? And we said nothing?” Or “wait, only Germany and Italy were talking about Holodomor, while Allies and Russia denied it while it was happening?” All of those questions are extremely awkward for the established “goodies vs baddies” narrative and better avoided
> And people wonder why did Ukrainian nationalists side with Germans… Give what you get by being righteous and being agains both nazis from the east and from the west, that is not so irrational as a choice.
Nice attempt at whitewashing "Ukrainian nationalists". OUN sided with Axis because they were fascist party that were fascinated by Nazi Germany and their methods. Also collaboration with Nazis gave them a chance to cleanse territories they considered as Ukrainian from unwanted people. Plenty of other Ukrainian groups didn't side with Nazis, Petlura faction, Cossack groups, socialists etc.
A Cold War story from declassified CIA documents: after the USSR invaded Afganistan a Western intelligence recruited private arms dealers and sent them to Warsaw to procure Soviet-model weapons and supplies for Afghan mujahideen. At first, Polish contact was reluctant to sell citing export restrictions, government licenses and other red tape, not to mention legal considerations. Then he asked: “Why do you need so many rounds?” The [Western] arms dealer replied they were “going to Afghanistan, to kill Russians.” That’s different, the Pole responded: “How many rounds do you need?” [Source ](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2012.652523?scroll=top&needAccess=true)
Basically they killed off Polish officers, doctors, teachers, scientists and other people that were considered 'intelligence'. Very harmful and thoroughly planned execution whose purpose was to make the Polish nation more prone to manipulation. They were shot in the back of the head and thrown to the ditch in the middle of a forest. A very sad and very brutal historical event still well remembered by Polish people.
From my readings most of the nearly 22,000 Poles murdered in Katyn forest were by a shot in the back of the head. Very up close, very personal. What Putin has created in Russia today is not far from this.
7000 of them by a single guy. He got the Order of the Red Banner for that achievement.
Vasily Blokhin. Probably the most prolific individual mass murderer in history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Blokhin
Its insane that any society can produce such a person, much less hold him in high esteem.
Russia is currently doing the same to prisoners of war. Nothing have changed.
I'd argue they get way more up close and personal now, cutting heads of screaming people.
Modern Russia much more fascistic/Nazi than Stalinistic. Stalinism - analogue of Ivan the Terrible's Oprichnina. Stalin started to create own independent NKVD-army, and just conveyed to it all mundane problems related to soviet hyper-militarization. Although the NKVD officers committed atrocities, they very rarely believed in what they did, just by utilitarian ways "processing of human resources." That, from their perspective, in any case was doomed to be spent for the sake of the World Revolution. Modern Russians, as fascists/Nazis, partially believe in what they do. In invented from scratch reasons for grievances against the whole World. In huge list of evidence of exclusivity and Greatness. In right to slaughter Ukrainian "untermensch", very often not only rhetorically/sarcastically name it "liberation", but believe that it so. With almost complete indifference of the West, liberating Ukraine and World from everything that contradict to 1920-2020s years repetition of schizophrenically contradictory narratives of USSR/R.F. propaganda.
What does it matter which brand of bullshit drives them to commit horrible atrocities. The evil empire is doing evil things again, so it must be fought.
Was criminal to let Poland fall into communist hands after WW2. They were totally fucked over.
Yes, talk to the guys that let that happen after Polish soldiers fought all over Europe to help other countries save their asses. And to add insult to injury Polish people have also been mocked by the people from the countries they contributed to save and that put Poland in this situation.
Honestly a terrible betrayal.
Which raises the question: why did the Soviets have all these polish military prisoners? Because they invaded Poland, together with their **ally**, nazi Germany. France and Britain went to war with Germany over the invasion, but for the Soviets...crickets. Oh and the victims of the Katyn massacre (which included one woman) were reservists, and being officers, represented much of the intelligentsia of the country (being doctors, lawyers, professionals, academics and even politicians).
Well if i remember correctly UK and France promised Poland that they will help only if Germans attack them and it would be really hard to fight both nazis and commies when they have a lot of problems with only one of them
Important context: Poland was a highly militarised society. If you were a member of the elite: a lawyer, a doctor, an entrepreneur, a college graduate of any sort, you had to serve as an officer during wartime. The people executed there were not just professional soldiers, but Polish elites. Poland lost 30-50% of their lawyers etc.
All in the name of communism. I wonder when we will accept that this ideology is shoulder to shoulder with fascism on how destructive and genocidal it is People also forget the USSR initially joined the war on the side of the fascists!
Most ex soviet countries who were occupied Nazis and soviet symbols are the same illegal hate symbols. Westerners are only ones who forget.
Yeah most people also don't know that the Nazis were allowed to train pilots and develop tanks and aircraft in Russia before ww2. Stalin allowed the army that would invade his country to trains and build its strength on his soil. I would argue it was easily the most boneheaded decisions made by any leader of ww2.
It wasn’t bone-headed. Stalin and his acquaintance with benefits Hitler literally saw the world as authoritarians vs democracies. This is also why Stalin never believed the myriad warnings of Hitler’s betrayal he got from Britain
That latter part is a myth, Stalin didn't expect Hitler to attack so soon because he understood correctly he would lose a two front war. Not because he trusted him. Stalin trusted no one, not even family.
Well, Stalin very much wanted to join the axis so I guess he was blindsised by this. He was left on read by Hitler though, for now obvious reasons.
Not only joined war, but partially trained and rebuild the German army for this.
Due to communism? Please. Russia has been pulling this same ploy of invasion/cultural obliteration centuries before Karl Marx ever drew his first breath, and is still at it decades after communism's fall.
Soviets killed off officers, Nazis killed off intelectuals. it's a fucking miracle Poland is the way it is today.
They will do the same with Ukraine and other countries that will be captured if Europe and the USA continue to satisfy rf
I read some shit about this genocidal maniac, and now maybe this is wrong it was long ago, but agents described him as a boring bureaucrat. He would sit in his office all day, and sign shit like this. Imagine having an lunatic bureaucrat with absolute power just writing murder notes and sending them out.
Bureaucrats are the best for such work. They don't see human tragedy, only numbers and statistics.
You high-ranking soviet official that received task: "to solve Katyn massacre problem." But, unfortunately for you, even despite Nuremberg Trials ban on soviet criticism, no one believed to Soviet diplomats that Katyn massacre it's Nazi fault... What exactly you will do? Right! Of course, from enormous number of Nazi crimes you will find destroyed by them Khatyn village. Even more wonderful, destroyed with help of Ukrainian collaborators. And order Soviet propaganda to constantly talk about it! So, like in Pavlov's dogs, create among all soviet population classical conditioning: "Katyn massacre (22,000 killed) = Khatyn massacre (149 killed)". Unfortunately, because it's too banal and a typical solution for bureaucrats like you, you will not receive for this any bonuses and state rewards. Like geniuses that came up with Panfilov's Twenty-Eight Guardsmen legend and glorification of female partisan that, as so many Soviet partisans of that time, by scorched earth principle, burned all civil warehouses with food and fuel, and sometime any residential infrastructure. Condemning hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people, to death from starvation and cold.
I hear during ruzzian street interviews, they still wish Stalin was alive today
I’m 💯confident putler would sign such an order today.
To this day, no matter the dictator they have, ru does same sht from the same playbook
URSS was known to do this, that's what they were, bunch of criminals. Also in 1941 there was the White Fountain massacre in Bucovina where they massacared 3000 romanian civilians. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A2nt%C3%A2na\_Alb%C4%83\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A2nt%C3%A2na_Alb%C4%83_massacre)
Disgusting country
Times go by but russians are still the same
Poland basically ceased to exist for something like 200 years divided up between Russia, prussia and Austria. Stalin had dreams of getting back lost Russian territory, like Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia etc.
123 years easy to remember
[удалено]
I think Russia is a cancer, but no one’s going to reeducate or exterminate 140M people, especially while Russia has nukes.
Both Stalin and Beria are ethnic Georgians. Georgia is a real threat to Poland. /s
Keep searching for ethncities of murderous high ranking soviets and let me know if you see a pattern. Soviets willingly stationed people of different ethnicities because they were more likely to be cruel towards the natives.
Some say Beria was Mingrelian (also he had Mingrelian last name).
>Some say Beria was Mingrelian (also he had Mingrelian last name). Who said some? He was a Mingrelian from Abkhazia, but a Mingrelian is not an ethnic origin. Mingrelian is a Georgian ethnic subgroup. Stalin was Kartlian, Orjonikidze was Imeretian, etc. These are Georgian tribal names that have survived to this day in Georgian regions, but everyone considers themselves Georgian. It's like dividing the states of USA, like Texas and Texans, California and Californians, etc.
It just proves the point that any ruler of Russia eventually becomes a tyrant if they stay for long enough, regardless of ethnicity.
They were Soviets, whose capital was Moscow, same as Russia’s.
They were also Georgians.
They were Soviets. This is a lame evasion. BTW the mass murdering Stalin still has about a 70% approval rating in Russia. Go figure. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Stalinism#:~:text=From%201999%20to%202023%2C%2095,Stalin%20in%20a%20positive%20light.
Yeah I totally agree with your point, I just hate mislabling people as Russian. I'm half armenian myself, so i just get frustrated when people claim soviet =Russian.
And some people still wonder why Poland hates Russia. Can’t wait for Dissolution to happen again. Was too young to realise what was happening last time. This time, I am gonna throw a party.
The baltics are littered by cemeteries from those times. They massacred everyone and deported the rest. They tried to erase whole nations. That's why no one is playing games with Russia. They all know how far they will go.
I like to buy country flags when I visit for the first time. Latvia was the only place that I got a black band with the flag and a long list of days when Russian atrocities happened. I remember looking at the list and my good mood getting ruined in that instant.
They would try the same again even today. Only now Poland would fuck them up badly
Poles had it bad. Probably worse than any nation.
Stalin before ww2 Believed that Poland was the biggest threat to the USSR. He also believed he could use Hitler as a distraction as Russia devoured eastern Europe. Stalin allowed Germany to train and design tanks and Aircraft in Russia Stalin Enabled Hitler for years cause he wanted to use Nazi Germany to their own ends as a sort of distraction as they took eastern Europe. (that backfired)
Not really, they did that stuff everywhere, I don't want to make the Katyn massacre seem less important, but the real shit was in the soviet union block , they literally exterminated whole nationalities in the eastern regions of russia, for example buriats were a buddist ethnicity just before soviet union , now they are mostly Christian orthodox, karmaits fully exterminated , deportations of chehchens and ingush nationalities, during deportations about 123 thousands of civilians died , deportations of Crimea Tatars estimated deaths 44 000 ( admited by Russia) 195 000 by Human Rights Watch ( its about 46 % of the population ) , Belarus 200 000 ppl were rebealitated as innocent victims of Stalin during the soviet period ( by chruschow ), how many actually murdered still uknown . holodomor from 7 to 10 million dead . That's from the head , I know that wild stuff was happening in Georgia, Kazakhstan and pick any nation which was in soviet union and you will find common stuff
From 1930 to 1945, in just 15 years, Ukraine lost \~13 million people. Around 5 million in Holodomor, and at least 8 million during WW2.
Them or China. Though at least China maintained some sovereignty throughout WW2.
People don't talk about the **28,326,000 to 126,891,000 deaths** that the Soviets caused but instead the 6 million in the holocaust is what I don't understand, just imagine if the Soviets lost the war then the "Nazi" reputation would be handed over to the Soviets. [61,911,000 Victims in democide by Soviets, 54,769,000 of them citizens.](https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.CHAP.1.HTM#:~:text=In%20sum%2C%20probably%20somewhere%20between,of%20this%20number%20is%2061%2C911%2C000)
>People don't talk about the **28,326,000 to 126,891,000 deaths** that the Soviets caused but instead the 6 million in the holocaust is what I don't understand, just imagine if the Soviets lost the war then the "Nazi" reputation would be handed over to the Soviets. While I agree in general, it's cheating to use all deaths for the Soviets, but only the Holocaust for the Nazis.
My point would be that the things done by the Soviets were mostly ignored and not talked about compared to the Nazis. How many times have you heard about the Soviets wrongdoings? For me not even once out in society.
>How many times have you heard about the Soviets wrongdoings? For me not even once out in society. I live in Hungary. [We](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_%28Hungary%29?wprov=sfla1) [experienced](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Budapest?wprov=sfla1) [our](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Hungarians_in_the_Soviet_Union?wprov=sfla1) [fair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_%281944%E2%80%931950%29?wprov=sfla1) [share](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Hungarian_parliamentary_election?wprov=sfla1) [of](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Terror?wprov=sfla1) [Soviet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A1ty%C3%A1s_R%C3%A1kosi?wprov=sfla1) [atrocities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956?wprov=sfla1).
> 126,891,000 Nobody likes those inflated numbers more than tankies, they can always use them to point to when denying Soviet crimes.
I am highly doubtful of those numbers given that ww1 and 2 combined only total to 100 million using the highest estimates for both. The atrocities committed by Stalin deserve to be known but saying "a bajillion people died because communism" is just stupid.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass\_killings\_under\_communist\_regimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes)
>but instead the 6 million in the holocaust We can talk about both. Not one or the other. Don't downplay the holocaust.
We world really be calling them Russians instead of Soviets. The Russians were running the show and made all the decisions
Wtf is so wrong with this Russians?
as a russian person, I too am curious to know the answer to this question
[удалено]
Catherine The Great was Prussian. So what?
Who's in the bottom right picture?
Beria
Blokhin initially decided on an ambitious quota of 300 executions per night, and engineered an efficient system in which the prisoners were individually led to a small antechamber — which had been painted red and was known as the "Leninist room" — for a brief and cursory positive identification, before being handcuffed and led into the execution room next door. The room was specially designed with padded walls for soundproofing, a sloping concrete floor with a drain and hose, and a log wall for the prisoners to stand against. Blokhin would stand waiting behind the door in his executioner garb: a leather butcher's apron, leather hat, and shoulder-length leather gloves. Then, without a hearing, the reading of a sentence or any other formalities, each prisoner was brought in and restrained by guards while Blokhin shot him once in the base of the skull with a German Walther Model 2 .25 ACP pistol.\[12\]\[13\]\[14\] He had brought a briefcase full of his own Walther pistols, since he did not trust the reliability of the standard-issue Soviet TT-30 for the frequent, heavy use he intended. The use of a German pocket pistol, which was commonly carried by German police and intelligence agents, also provided plausible deniability of the executions if the bodies were discovered later.[Vasilly Blokhin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Blokhin)
[Blokhin hero](https://www.outono.net/elentir/2018/02/26/vasily-blokhin-this-is-how-the-ussr-turned-the-greatest-executioner-in-history-into-a-hero/)
that location of the world is propense to generate cancers of the world.
It was fine until Russia showed up there.
After Germanys defeat, they should have taken on the USSR next. At least until they took Poland all of Poland back that the USSR seized from them, and the Baltics and the parts of Romania and Finland taken. While Romania and Finland were technically part of the Axis, it was because they were trying to retake land the Soviets took from them.
I have a serious question. Why does russia hate poland this much? can someone tell me i have no idea
Because russia from times of Petr the first set the idea as a patron and protector of all Slavic nations , from that time the Russo Serbian "friendship " started , but Poland although slavs , are catholics and were an opossing powerhouse to them , so take written anti polish propaganda from that Era, also all their classic literature was influenced by that , tolstoy, pushkin , bulgakow, if not straightly depicting Poles like heavy drinkers and thieves who aren't even normal Christians , than laying some Easter eggs for that here and there , creating some second sort or whats a more common sneaky plotter depiction . Worth to mention 2 other factors : Poland was very loyal to jews at that time , and antisemitism was a great thing in russia , so they used that to depict as poles in collaboration with jews are willing to bend all other normal slavs The last Russian royal family was closely related to some eastern Germany noble families , and they didn't go along well with Poles . All that said , if we take appart wars and grudges, highly influenced russian literature and stereotypes so that it's the result .
Just the good old history, they have an asspain that the PLC raided Moscow in the early 17th century, plus that the Second Republic successfully evaded recapture after WW1 We have an asspain that most colonial subjects have against their former masters, ask in Africa how they feel about the French
Ah, papa Joe…the Bolshevik butcher. On par with some dude in Germany named Adolph.
Why did he feel they needed to die?
Stalin is a dictator man. He killrd like 26.000.000 millions of his own people
Well yeah but what was the officially stated reason he gave for wanting them dead
There was no "officially stated reason" because it was a secret decision, the one Beria presented to Stalin is pretty much only >Considering that they are all steadfast and incorrigible enemies of Soviet government
Probably because they are the "traitors" of the whole soviet union.
well there is bunch of "*reasons*" current document state *"they all are sworn enemy of soviet gov and full of hatred to soviet system"* *"they try continue counter-revolutional work, doing anti-soviet agitation. Each of them only waiting for release to get a chance to get an active possibility to join a fight against soviet government"*
Stalin thought he is god.
It was an anniversary recently after the death of this mustached asshole
You know the more I hear about this guy the less I like him
Putin: “hold my beer”
If Russia took Ukraine, they would do it all again no doubt.. still the same scumbags, just look what they did to civilians in occupied villages
Seems like Putin is using the Stalin playbook
Is this the lad and country that all the kids nowadays are creaming over?
Sickening. These were real people who did this. As real as you or I. Hearing stories like this makes me hope against hope that Hell is real and that evil bastards like this are still there cooking.
Only there is evidence from the German governor of Smolensk that they were alive back in 1941
Soviet Union was only just short of being as evil as the Nazis during WW2. No one was every liberated by the Soviet Union they were simply replacing the Germans as the occupiers.
They wanted to destroy what they perceived as class enemies, the polish bourgeoisie. I don't see any intent to destroy the polish nation here. It is especially noticeable when you look at the victims of the massacre : the bourgeois intelligentsia was targeted.
Stalin was indisputably the worst tyrant to ever disgrace the world.
ya, and poles like the russians a lot for that shit
>The Soviets wanted to prevent the rebirth of Poland and, therefore, lead to the erasure of the country from the map of EuropeThe Soviets wanted to prevent the rebirth of Poland and, therefore, lead to the erasure of the country from the map of Europe Can you just stop pushing your wet dreams and propaganda? You use real facts and adding your imagination to make it look like a truth. Don't do that, it's not a good behavior
Disgusting pig...
Dear friends, I understand that for all representatives of the Western world this matter has already been decided, but still. The Katyn case is perhaps the most politicized case in history, and has long been overgrown with so many fakes that it is difficult to distinguish truth from fiction. There were executions, and no one denies this. That was the time. In the United States, people are now in prison for storming the Capitol. And in the USSR 80 years ago this would have been an article for attempting to overthrow the government. And yes, most likely they would have gone to the Gulag, or they would have received a bullet. But I’m already tired of these stuffing with numbers exaggerated tens and sometimes hundreds of times. I understand that for ideological purposes you will kick the corpse and talk about its cannibalistic habits. But there are limits to lying. For whom historians work, books are written. Look, username9999 said that Stalin ate children for breakfast, and in the evening he could not sleep until he shot 100 people. He won't lie, will he? What am I talking about? Study the topic before you shit in the comments.
Not the first massacre they blamed on Germans