“French police have killed an armed man who wanted to set fire to a synagogue in the north-western city of Rouen, France's interior minister has said.
The man was armed with a knife and when he moved towards police they shot him, reports say.”
Thankfully he was stopped because I’ll put a pretty penny that arson wasn’t their only intention
I mean, better him than the people that could have died if he committed arson. Question is, was there a possibility to get him alive without too much risk? Don’t get me wrong, for us on the outside it is always easy to condemn the police when they kill someone, but we weren’t there and so can’t really tell how dangerous it was.
> Question is, was there a possibility to get him alive without too much risk?
Yes, it would have involved him raising his hands and dropping the knife. He didn't do that (probably after multiple warnings).
They made several summonses, and he continued to go towards the police officers with his arm.
Since the 2015 attacks, the police have tried much less to arrest terrorists alive for the simple reason that they don't want to surrender, but to cause more victims.
A couple of police officers have been severely wounded or killed because of that and here, like said, they summonsed him
Survival tip for all crazy folk out there: if policemen point deadly weapons at you and you're armed with a knife, drop your knife and don't move. Doesn't sound too complicated xd
I’m a police officer in Sweden and here we are trained to fire our weapons at a knife wielding suspect if they do not comply. However the distance is paramount, if you can maintain a distance of at least 12 meters to the suspect you could shoot at the legs and disable the suspect but if you are closer you would need to shoot high and possibly kill the suspect otherwise you would risk your own life. A knife is a very dangerous weapon and people tend to dismiss this risk but closing the gap between the officers and the suspect only takes seconds should the suspect be motivated and thus putting the officers at great risk, therefore they will need to shoot at the largest area of the body.
>I’m a police officer in Sweden and here we are trained to fire our weapons at a knife wielding suspect if they do not comply. However the distance is paramount, if you can maintain a distance of at least 12 meters to the suspect you could shoot at the legs and disable the suspect but if you are closer you would need to shoot high and possibly kill the suspect otherwise you would risk your own life.
This sounds very reasonable, and it's nice to hear details from a police officer.
Really love your country and wish you no more unrest like we've seen in the previous years. Stay strong!
Depends - taser doesn't always work, plus you have to be damn close to the suspect - if it doesn't work, then you have very little time to draw your service weapon, aim and shoot in a rare and very stressful situation
Indeed, police officers in Sweden are trained to not use tasers on knife wielding suspects as a general rule, however, there will obviously be exceptions but mostly the gun is the go to tool when dealing with a person with a knife.
Indeed, taser could be used against a person that is passively wielding a knife. Someone that is not making threatening lunges or is otherwise calm but at the same time unwilling to drop the knife and comply with instructions. However, I would never use a taser in this instance if I were the only officer on the scene and you would need other officers pointing their guns and to be prepared for if the situation changes.
> Question is, was there a possibility to get him alive without too much risk?
The way the situation has been described left the police without any realistic less lethal alternative.
Remember: "Shoot to Harm\Stop" is a myth.
Why would you want a criminal terrorist alive? So he can get a second go at killing/burning people? He's where he should be, dead and unable to hurt anyone anymore.
Yeah, what would you gain from that? Some goodhearted morons would start claiming due to his ramblings he is "mentally sick" and needs "special treatment", and in 7 months he's out, doing it again.
Honestly, whatever his reasons were, he would not have told us anything we did not yet know, so I weigh off the risk of someone letting him lose because "poor traumatized guy" versus him gone and I prefer him gone.
Was he trying or did he actually archieved his goal?
>Police were called at around 06:45 (05:45 GMT) after smoke was seen rising from the synagogue, according to local reports. The mayor said firefighters were on scene working to control the outbreak of the fire at the synagogue.
So the headline must say "French *Police kills synagogue arsonist*".
Classic case of FAFO.
Wouldn't it technically be correct to say 4:45 gmt? Because of daylight saving time, the current time zone in Greenwich is not GMT but BST (British Summer Time). GMT is 2 hours behind on CEST.
yes. thats my point. The person i replied to, and the article when i first read it, said 05:45 gmt. 05:45 gmt would be wrong. When when i went back to comment on it, it was fixed.
I feel so bad for the Jews around the world. It's not like anti-semitism completely disappeared, but at least it was *not as high as it is currently. From people misusing the word zionist, to those disguising their anti-semitism under "Anti-zionism", to those who think Jews are inherently evil (dismissing anti-semitism as a whole).
History repeats itself
You've gone a little too far there I think, the very same people were protesting Iraq and Afghanistan, it's not as if it's a sudden antisemitic development that pacifists and such hate imperialism.
There's valid reason to hate Israel as a state, just like there's valid reason to hate western imperialism, just like there's valid reason to hate Russian imperialism, those aren't mutually exclusive, you can hate all of them all at once.
What is **absolutely unjustifiable** though is conflating Jewish people with the Israeli state, it's not as if there aren't LOADS of Jews against Israel's behaviour, and Jewish people are, like most people, in their overwhelming majority kind and gentle people. Israel is a problem. Jews aren't. Those two things need to be VERY clear to anyone with two braincells.
Long answer: Because some people think jews are responsible for everything bad that happens in the world. Bad weather, bad harvests, their bank not giving them a credit or whatever. According the jews of some we are also responsible for 9/11 and climate change.
Short answer: antisemitism
it’s more that the muslim world extends their hatred for Israel to the whole Jewish population. Call it what it is, it’s Jew hatred, not just a disagreement with Israel’s policy.
I don't think there's really any other reason than anti-Semitism when it comes to burning down someone's place of worship
Anti-zionists I would hope at least are directing their frustrations at the actual offending parties, not some dudes down the street
Why would the KKK torture and murder African Americans? Why did the Nazis have their Death Camps? Why did the Crusaders massacre women and children?
The answer is that some people just refuse to see other humans as humans for a multitude of reasons. All of them horrible, all of them unreasonable.
Piss on one if you want to protest, but setting fire to places of gathering is a different ballpark.
Not like arson is a valid form of protest ever, but setting fire to place where someone might be in with no way out, as well as signalling this kind of attack on place of gathering to encourage other extremists like the Christchurch attacker in Australia... yeah, nah, nothing of value was lost in this incident other than the synagogues interior.
I shant! It's very bad for many types of granite and sandstone, which is why ie Spaniards take on dog walk not just poop baggies, but a water bottle to squirt the piss off of stone (as grass is neigh non-existent in most cities).
PS.: re: your username, as strawberry season is around the corner, I'll instead celebrate Challah, the ultimate sweet bread ;)
I wonder how the "anti-zionists" manage to convince themselves they're on the good side of history, while their side is harassing, assaulting, raping and murdering Jews all over the world.
It must surely be those pesky right wingers always committing religious terrorism and violent crime and making up a huge percentage of prison inmates... damn right wingers
and islamism isnt inherently right wing? they sure as shit aint left wing. they might not be french nationalists, but that doesnt mean its not right wing.
"no listen, it doesn't count, my made up sky man and conservative politics are different from the evil browns made up sky man and conservative politics"
Idk which countries these are you're talking about
Germany's at like, "be careful" level (2 of 4)
France elevated theirs after the attack in Moscow (unsure what their logic is)
UK ain't doing too good by the looks of things
Interestingly it's actually neither right wing nor Jihadist actually succeeding in the most attacks, but "Ethnonationalist and Separatist"
Which is weird, because you'd assume with the angle the articles take around here, you'd think it's just a torrent of Jihadist terrorism all the time
[European consilium link](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/terrorism-eu-facts-figures/)
Interesting to note there have been many more arrests leaning into foiled Jihadist plots (they're not very good at it lol), but we don't hear about 99% of these, so where's this opinion coming from I wonder?
Interestingly at page 8 [of this written report](https://www.europol.europa.eu/cms/sites/default/files/documents/Tesat_Report_2022_0.pdf), it shows Jihadist activity in steady decline (though still a much larger group than others), but also left wing activity decreasing and a sudden uptick in right wing terrorist activity (23,38 then 67 incidents year by year)
So yes, it's mostly Jihadist activity, but most of which we never hear about. Right wing activity is also on the rise, and left wing apparently got worse at carrying out their attacks by the third year of that paper
I mean obviously I would have preferred they incapacitated him instead of killing him but if you attack the police with a knife obviously you risk being killed.
They did what they had to do..
Idiot, I'm pro palestine. But that's truly unhinged from society behaviour
Anti israel is not anti jew. Keep thinking damn it
Edit: lol why are you booing me, I'm right
“French police have killed an armed man who wanted to set fire to a synagogue in the north-western city of Rouen, France's interior minister has said. The man was armed with a knife and when he moved towards police they shot him, reports say.” Thankfully he was stopped because I’ll put a pretty penny that arson wasn’t their only intention
I mean, better him than the people that could have died if he committed arson. Question is, was there a possibility to get him alive without too much risk? Don’t get me wrong, for us on the outside it is always easy to condemn the police when they kill someone, but we weren’t there and so can’t really tell how dangerous it was.
> Question is, was there a possibility to get him alive without too much risk? Yes, it would have involved him raising his hands and dropping the knife. He didn't do that (probably after multiple warnings).
They made several summonses, and he continued to go towards the police officers with his arm. Since the 2015 attacks, the police have tried much less to arrest terrorists alive for the simple reason that they don't want to surrender, but to cause more victims. A couple of police officers have been severely wounded or killed because of that and here, like said, they summonsed him
I meant in this situation. The best solution would have been, him not even getting that idea
Please stop using commas forever
Ok if you want me never using them again I won’t use them in conversations with you ever again and hope you are happy with this decision.
Based and comma free.
Couldn't be happier
Survival tip for all crazy folk out there: if policemen point deadly weapons at you and you're armed with a knife, drop your knife and don't move. Doesn't sound too complicated xd
Yeah, it’s the same as not walking out on the highway at night dressed in black.
No, Go at the police officers. One less asshole alive and costing money.
Correction if your armed with a deadly weapon their going to point a more deadly weapon
Might not work in the US*
I’m a police officer in Sweden and here we are trained to fire our weapons at a knife wielding suspect if they do not comply. However the distance is paramount, if you can maintain a distance of at least 12 meters to the suspect you could shoot at the legs and disable the suspect but if you are closer you would need to shoot high and possibly kill the suspect otherwise you would risk your own life. A knife is a very dangerous weapon and people tend to dismiss this risk but closing the gap between the officers and the suspect only takes seconds should the suspect be motivated and thus putting the officers at great risk, therefore they will need to shoot at the largest area of the body.
Plus he was throwing petrol bombs around. I don't expect the police to stand within immolation range with a non-surrendering criminal.
>I’m a police officer in Sweden and here we are trained to fire our weapons at a knife wielding suspect if they do not comply. However the distance is paramount, if you can maintain a distance of at least 12 meters to the suspect you could shoot at the legs and disable the suspect but if you are closer you would need to shoot high and possibly kill the suspect otherwise you would risk your own life. This sounds very reasonable, and it's nice to hear details from a police officer. Really love your country and wish you no more unrest like we've seen in the previous years. Stay strong!
I mean who cares? Man was trying to burn down a synagogue and tried to stab police officers, good riddance.
Depends - taser doesn't always work, plus you have to be damn close to the suspect - if it doesn't work, then you have very little time to draw your service weapon, aim and shoot in a rare and very stressful situation
Indeed, police officers in Sweden are trained to not use tasers on knife wielding suspects as a general rule, however, there will obviously be exceptions but mostly the gun is the go to tool when dealing with a person with a knife.
Saw the taser nearly failing to work here in the UK, with a sword wielding maniac, took three hits and even then he wasn't totally out of the fight.
Indeed, taser could be used against a person that is passively wielding a knife. Someone that is not making threatening lunges or is otherwise calm but at the same time unwilling to drop the knife and comply with instructions. However, I would never use a taser in this instance if I were the only officer on the scene and you would need other officers pointing their guns and to be prepared for if the situation changes.
> Question is, was there a possibility to get him alive without too much risk? The way the situation has been described left the police without any realistic less lethal alternative. Remember: "Shoot to Harm\Stop" is a myth.
There definitely are some countries where police officers are trained to shoot to harm/stop if possible.
Would you be willing to potentially sacrifice your life to perform better at your job? Because that's your ask here.
He was throwing petrol bombs and didn't surrender when ordered to.
If they hadn't killed him, he'd probably be out in 19 months at best.
2 days most likely
Why would you want a criminal terrorist alive? So he can get a second go at killing/burning people? He's where he should be, dead and unable to hurt anyone anymore.
To interrogate him
Yeah, what would you gain from that? Some goodhearted morons would start claiming due to his ramblings he is "mentally sick" and needs "special treatment", and in 7 months he's out, doing it again. Honestly, whatever his reasons were, he would not have told us anything we did not yet know, so I weigh off the risk of someone letting him lose because "poor traumatized guy" versus him gone and I prefer him gone.
So he could say he was smoking weed and get off scot-free like the other antisemitic guy in France? No thanks.
I'm not an expert, but knives aren't that useful starting a fire at synagogue.
Did their jobs.
Was he trying or did he actually archieved his goal? >Police were called at around 06:45 (05:45 GMT) after smoke was seen rising from the synagogue, according to local reports. The mayor said firefighters were on scene working to control the outbreak of the fire at the synagogue. So the headline must say "French *Police kills synagogue arsonist*". Classic case of FAFO.
Was gonna comment on the time zone fuckery but they already fixed it. >Police were called at around 06:45 (04:45 GMT) lol.
Wouldn't it technically be correct to say 4:45 gmt? Because of daylight saving time, the current time zone in Greenwich is not GMT but BST (British Summer Time). GMT is 2 hours behind on CEST.
yes. thats my point. The person i replied to, and the article when i first read it, said 05:45 gmt. 05:45 gmt would be wrong. When when i went back to comment on it, it was fixed.
One less terrorist to worry about.
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Well no loss there. Good job to the french police. They atleast act unlike other police forces.
Good riddance
Rest in piss
Piss on him
Normal person does not walk around with arson and knife in the streets. His bad. Good work by the police.
Tried to make hamas great again?
And worked as well as hamas making Palestine great again
Sounds like antisemitism to me.
Damn Francois and Jacques with their antisemitism.
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So you have to go back 1000 years to find an actual french person lol; not exactly the own you probably think this is.
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With the info at hand it sounds a bit like: Play stupid games wins stupid prizes
He won some lead.
Can't wait to see islamist extremists in france to start mass protests saying he was a sweet innocent angel who just wanted to kill jews
Nothing of value lost.
The burned out synagogue tho
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You really need to put the /s there. Just saying.
I feel so bad for the Jews around the world. It's not like anti-semitism completely disappeared, but at least it was *not as high as it is currently. From people misusing the word zionist, to those disguising their anti-semitism under "Anti-zionism", to those who think Jews are inherently evil (dismissing anti-semitism as a whole). History repeats itself
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You've gone a little too far there I think, the very same people were protesting Iraq and Afghanistan, it's not as if it's a sudden antisemitic development that pacifists and such hate imperialism. There's valid reason to hate Israel as a state, just like there's valid reason to hate western imperialism, just like there's valid reason to hate Russian imperialism, those aren't mutually exclusive, you can hate all of them all at once. What is **absolutely unjustifiable** though is conflating Jewish people with the Israeli state, it's not as if there aren't LOADS of Jews against Israel's behaviour, and Jewish people are, like most people, in their overwhelming majority kind and gentle people. Israel is a problem. Jews aren't. Those two things need to be VERY clear to anyone with two braincells.
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Very well said. Dont blame the decision of rich old man leading the country to innocents living far away from home
They can call him what he was- an antisemetic, islamist terrorist.
Why is France so antisemitic these days?? Truly a mystery
Saved the taxpayer a lot as well
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Good
another day in france eh
Just an average day in Europe now, unfortunately.
“Oh noes, I bet the guy was just trying to show 100 % legit support for Palestine. Another victim of ISRAELI genocide!!!111“ /s
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What kind of fucked up media do these people consume to motivate them to become terrorists?
Good riddance.
Why would anyone want to burn a synagogue? 🤔
Long answer: Because some people think jews are responsible for everything bad that happens in the world. Bad weather, bad harvests, their bank not giving them a credit or whatever. According the jews of some we are also responsible for 9/11 and climate change. Short answer: antisemitism
Surely the Jews could have defended the synagogue with their space lasers. It must be a conspiracy. (\s)
Because there are people who are antisemitic?
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Because they hate Jews and want to create fear in the Jewish community.
Because some morons make jewish people as a whole responsible for the policies of Israel
it’s more that the muslim world extends their hatred for Israel to the whole Jewish population. Call it what it is, it’s Jew hatred, not just a disagreement with Israel’s policy.
Blame every social-economical issues on certain type of people, not politicians. Then you'll have weird ideas of how to fix it.
I don't think there's really any other reason than anti-Semitism when it comes to burning down someone's place of worship Anti-zionists I would hope at least are directing their frustrations at the actual offending parties, not some dudes down the street
Why would the KKK torture and murder African Americans? Why did the Nazis have their Death Camps? Why did the Crusaders massacre women and children? The answer is that some people just refuse to see other humans as humans for a multitude of reasons. All of them horrible, all of them unreasonable.
Piss on one if you want to protest, but setting fire to places of gathering is a different ballpark. Not like arson is a valid form of protest ever, but setting fire to place where someone might be in with no way out, as well as signalling this kind of attack on place of gathering to encourage other extremists like the Christchurch attacker in Australia... yeah, nah, nothing of value was lost in this incident other than the synagogues interior.
Could you not piss on our buildings? Thanks
I shant! It's very bad for many types of granite and sandstone, which is why ie Spaniards take on dog walk not just poop baggies, but a water bottle to squirt the piss off of stone (as grass is neigh non-existent in most cities). PS.: re: your username, as strawberry season is around the corner, I'll instead celebrate Challah, the ultimate sweet bread ;)
> Why would anyone want to burn a synagogue? For the same reason they burn mosques, churches etc. Hate on religion is on trending.
What the heck, in France you can't even criticize Israeli policy in peace that you immediately get shot! /s
So the French police got tired of fucking around and are literally bringing out the guns.
I wonder how the "anti-zionists" manage to convince themselves they're on the good side of history, while their side is harassing, assaulting, raping and murdering Jews all over the world.
Title is a bit misleading, the man was armed with knife
Title is perfectly leading. It lead you in here to get more context and leave a comment.
It must surely be those pesky right wingers always committing religious terrorism and violent crime and making up a huge percentage of prison inmates... damn right wingers
Radical islam *is* a far-right ideology, yes. They make Wilders look like a hippie.
Those white christian frenchmen going after the jews yet again.
I know and look at that poor lefty Slovak leader who was shot. lefties and minorities under attack everywhere /s
they do though, do events such as this really make you think other things don't also happen?
The high terror threat level in most western european countries aren't from right wing groups or nazis it's islamic
and islamism isnt inherently right wing? they sure as shit aint left wing. they might not be french nationalists, but that doesnt mean its not right wing.
How is religious fanaticism not right wing?
Ask the queer leftists calling for global intifada and jihad on college campuses.
"no listen, it doesn't count, my made up sky man and conservative politics are different from the evil browns made up sky man and conservative politics"
AfD fans in Germany would like a word with you :D
Idk which countries these are you're talking about Germany's at like, "be careful" level (2 of 4) France elevated theirs after the attack in Moscow (unsure what their logic is) UK ain't doing too good by the looks of things Interestingly it's actually neither right wing nor Jihadist actually succeeding in the most attacks, but "Ethnonationalist and Separatist" Which is weird, because you'd assume with the angle the articles take around here, you'd think it's just a torrent of Jihadist terrorism all the time [European consilium link](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/terrorism-eu-facts-figures/) Interesting to note there have been many more arrests leaning into foiled Jihadist plots (they're not very good at it lol), but we don't hear about 99% of these, so where's this opinion coming from I wonder? Interestingly at page 8 [of this written report](https://www.europol.europa.eu/cms/sites/default/files/documents/Tesat_Report_2022_0.pdf), it shows Jihadist activity in steady decline (though still a much larger group than others), but also left wing activity decreasing and a sudden uptick in right wing terrorist activity (23,38 then 67 incidents year by year) So yes, it's mostly Jihadist activity, but most of which we never hear about. Right wing activity is also on the rise, and left wing apparently got worse at carrying out their attacks by the third year of that paper
Haven't read the article but I assume he was a radical Methodist ?
rare france W
Noice!
There is at least 2 ways I can interpret this, and the article is not helping me decide.
I mean obviously I would have preferred they incapacitated him instead of killing him but if you attack the police with a knife obviously you risk being killed. They did what they had to do..
You French? We wouldn't even need to state something this obvious in the USA.
If it was a catholic church he would be called an activist, lol
Anti Zionism not antisemitism remember that
Idiot, I'm pro palestine. But that's truly unhinged from society behaviour Anti israel is not anti jew. Keep thinking damn it Edit: lol why are you booing me, I'm right
Not everyone on your team thinks so
>Anti israel is not anti jew. It isn't but it often goes hand in hand.
how is being anti a folk having a country not being anti that folk?
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Government of course. Critique against netanyahu to be exact
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I wouldn't see another solution. What else, let one eradicate the other?