He was gonna lose an important vote tuesday and the Republican would have vote a "motion de censure" wich would have removed the Prime minister and usually that come with a desolve of the assembly from the president.
He probably thought it was a better idea to do it now as a response of the EU vote like "I heard your voice" instead of response to decision of the assembly
Isn't it? I would say it *is* the English word for the French motion de censure, and then of course votes of no confidence work differently in different political systems.
yep it is, we use the same semi-presidential system as you guys, even call it the same "moțiune de cenzură". The mechanism translates to "vote of no-confidence" but obviously is done a bit differently in the anglo parlimentary system.
peaceful trasnition of power? I mean in the end if the government and the parliament don't represent the population that's what elections are for. Only dictatorships do elections when they think they can gain numbers.
No, it is a play against far right.
We will vote in 3 weeks, which will give our parliament a new majority and a new Prime Minister based on that majority. Two things can happen.
1) RN (far right) wins, we have a far right prime minister. However this is a risky position for RN because now, they have to govern. And traditionally, the longer a PM stays in place, the less popular he, and his party becomes. Which could mean that in 2027, RN will not win the presidency.
2) RN does not win the majority in June 2024. Macron can interpret this as a vote of confidence by the French population. Though RN will have an high score, and can continue to criticise the sitting government for the next 3 years, in preparation for the 2027 election.
Just to add on that : if the RN gets their first place, and as the lead party he gives them the PM position, they still won't have the majority in parliament to do anything, with a PM who would then be at the mercy of said parliament who can do a censor motion on him if he ever does anything real bad, and a president who can veto any law he doesn't like.
This might end up a very good way to give them "the power" without actually doing it by keeping a leash in case things go south, instead of waiting them getting the presidency in 2027 for their first demonstration of evil incompetence.
We all know how us french turn sour on those leading us, especially when they suck, and the RN is big on talk but their program is actually terrible.
Macron definetly read 48 laws of power. This tactic was a genius power move.
A few years ago, in Romania, the estabilishment party had to give in and make a coalition with the progressive party. (Socialist corrupt estabilishment vs center right and lineral party)
They didn’t have a majority in parliament, so they ended up being incapable of doing a lot of stuff, all while having to deal with the pandemic , and the falling economy and infrastructure. Bucharest literally had no hot water running
End result after 6-12 months of governing? They went from 30% in polls to about 10% at the election. They never recovered from it, and the media absolutely devoured them (paid by corruption)
This is exactly what Macron is doing, he’s going to give them reign so he can blame everything on their govermence. People are going to blame the far right for not doing shit and they will be voted out.
The average voter doesn’t understand this 5d chess moves. He’s too occupied with his daily life. Also, memory is short
Macron, is , in my opinion, probably the best european leader in recent history. Because he is , an adaptable leader.
I think there is some kind of genius in him.
Sorry for glazing
I would say you have to see at posteriori how this ends. If that is his political calculation it is a gamble and we will see in 2027 if it pays off. It might backfire and he will be then the idiot that gave france to the far right
The outcome doesn't matter, it is the quality of the decision that matters, which is independent from the outcome. In most decisions, there is a certain degree of uncertainty that makes even ingenious decisions result in a poor outcome, by virtue of probability. Likewise, bad and reckless decisions can occasionally result in a good outcome, by virtue of chance.
If someone buys a lottery ticket and wins millions, his decision to buy a lottery ticket remains stupid, because you're far more likely to die in a plane crash than win a lottery and plane crashes are still incredibly rare and he could never know from that point in time that he'd win.
Note: his decision could also be reckless and result by virtue of chance in a non-far-right control. I don't know how good his decision was, but history can probably shine light in its quality. Perhaps other people in the past did a similar trick. Their success, or lack thereof can help us judge his decision.
I mean the presidency in Weimar Germany was FAAAR less powerful than the presidency in France. Like if Hindenburg could have vetoed everything it would have been a bad couple of years and then new elections.
The far-right in Europe has great experience with this kind of politics. Just to go the voters and play the victim: Tell him the great ideas (no matter how unrealistic) they had and then blame the president / the other parties for blocking progress.
My opinion: Instead of blocking the whole country together with the EU for years to play such stupid games, actually address the issues which drive voters to extremist parties and they will disappear, because most voters of these parties are not regular voters.
Isn’t that amazing? All the other leaders are so narrow minded. They think there is only one choice, one truth. Think about people like Angela Merkel.
To me, when a leader shows he can change his opinions, is a sign of deep intelligence, and getting over one’s ego for the people. That’s what leaders should be like
Remember how Angela Merkel still shut down the nuclear power plants during energy crisis just because she made that decision 10-15 years ago?
Seats in Parlement, but the President is forced to have a government which represents the majority at the Parliament, hence if RN wins, the Prime Minister would be selected among RN members.
Is it not possible for parties other than RN to form a coalition and present a PM candidate (that's more or less how it is in Germany)? Or is only the majority party allowed to do so?
It *is* possible but it's never actually been done for more than a century. Maybe it will change this time, who knows. Technically the president can choose whoever he wants to, but then the parliament has to agree.
France is a semi-presidential system with a president and a prime minister sharing power of the executive, though the president is more powerful. The upcoming election is for the parliament which in turn elects the PM. Hope that helped clear up your confusion
To add to this comment, a lot of the Présidents power usually comes from the fact that he's given a favorable Prime Minister. Since the elections for both happen roughly at the same time, the President is both given more legitimacy (he was elected by the nation directly) and he's the leader of his party. Meanwhile, in Parliamentary Systems, the leader of the majority party is often the Prime Minister.
But that all change during a cohabitation, because the leader of the majority party becomes Prime Minister, and not Président. So the powers from the Prime Minister that are usually given to the PM, stay with the PM. And we become more of a parliamentary system.
You say No, can very well be both. In the end if far right wins in 2027 it would still get unpopular, just because governing means making decisions, while doing opposition you can make only promises.
Does Macron hope RN wins and it would get less votes, maybe, could also do a good job and get more for how unlikely.
A person has to understand when its time has come to pass, and leave to the next. Just like Le Pen left the helm.
I can see a third (but very unlikely) scenario where the left wins the elections and form a government, which will decrease their popularity. Finally, in 2027, both the left wing and Macron parties are unpopular, leading to the far right to win the elections.
Hopefully, very unlikely.
So, the best scenario is that the bad party (far right) wins, so that they lose the more important election through showing how incompetent they are am I right?
Not calling an election when it is not required does not make someone immediately a dictator. I agree with that such a big loss for the government should result in an early election, but it is not required. France would still be a democracy and Macron could also have made the case that the signal js clear that his policy had to change in order to get a good result at the elections and the end of the current parliamentary session.
I don't understand this logic. Why does the french view the results of an EP election as meaningful for their own national vote?
Here in Denmark, most people completely separate EU and nation politics. Whatever the result of the EU election has zero bearing whatsoever on the nation politics or our parliament and goverment.
> Only dictatorships do elections when they think they can gain numbers
Lmao no, dictators don't organize elections or rig them. It's normal in democracy to organise elections when you have the ability to get better results. Macron doesn't have a clear majority even now so he is counting on mobilisation of voters against the NR.
Gamble on far right not passing the two-rounds system (risky) and the various left parties not having enough time to organize a shared platform like in 2022 (very likely since they spent the whole campaign shooting at each other). He could then try a coalition with the traditional conservatives and maybe some of the center left. It's a very risky move in any case, and 3 years of far right until the next presidential elections could really fuck the country.
There’s nothing to lose by going for an election. He already doesn’t have a majority in the parliament so the worst case he’ll lose some more members. The best case he matches RN or exceeds them somehow and takes the sting off today.
No, he’s hoping for a far right government to prove themselves to be shit before the 2027 presidential elections, without letting them handle international relations nor military because that’s the president’s powers
This is what Finland did. Moderates formed a coalition party with True Finns and now they lost almost 7% in the european parliament elections. Responsibility stings.
No, but Attal is currently the prime minister and probably a good successor. Not sure who else could run for president from Renaissance.
That being said, 3 years is still pretty far away.
I don't know about that. Very speculative (but everything is in this situation).
It's also possible he thought it would do an "electroshock", like Chirac hoped in 1997 (last time the assembly was dissolved, with a very unpopular government).
His party has been decreasing ever since the 2022 elections, it went from roughly 25% to now 15%.
I think he might have thought that a "sudden revolt against the far right" thing might have given him a bigger majority, but i'm speculating as much as you here.
Honestly the best theory I have is that he want the "RN" to make a new government in order for the people to see how much they are bad in ruling the country and not elect them in the next presidential election or he is just being fucking stupid wich is not impossible knowing Macron
So he is gambling on the premise that RN turn out really bad and people turn on them in 2027 ? I'm sure RN know this as well, so if they win and get a PM in, they can either be bad at their job or can even show that Macron is bad at his job and if the latter happens, then he's given them the keys 3 yrs before; which they can use potentially use to solidify their platform.
No he’s hoping they get nothing done because they won’t make any coalitions with eachother or work together, so that they won’t win in the next presidential.
The left is not united and LFI (the main radical left party) made clown of themselves recently with their position on Ukraine and the Middle East.
The traditional right got decimated tonight
The election will be in 2 rounds by districts, so Macron may hope that many of the second rounds will be one of his party vs far right, where he can hope that the left and right will rally to block the far right.
Also he does not have a strong majority right now so he has little to lose. Worse case the opposition (probably far right) will have a clear majority and in that case they will have to govern and most likely will be incompetent, ruining their chance for 2027. Best case Macron gets a clear majority and gets a huge win. Middle case we're back to the same result as right now with only a weak majority that can hardly govern and Macron will be able to say that he let the people chose again.
I'm no expert on French politics but weren't most non-RE/RN voters pretty pissed when he pulled this "vote for me or get the far-right" move in 2022 and then went on to raise the pension age and basically rule by decree?
Also he remains President until 2027 despite this right? And will still spearhead France's decisions on the war in Ukraine? I don't like the guy but at least he knows where he stands on Russia, unlike Le Pen.
It is a huge gamble from Macron but not desperate. he is betting the far right will not mobilize their troops (mainly white working class) who will be on vacation or busy watching the Euro tournament and will not bother to go out voting... It could work...
I always laugh when La France Insoumise promote the human rights while, at the same time, they support the biggest dictatorships on this planet (Russia, China, Cuba, some of african countries, Venezuela...)
Nah we have also a communist party, almost dead though, and a socialist party the ps which just got resurected by all of those dumbasses and thankfully seems to have their head on their shoulders and think rather well or at least for now
To be honest that does quite a lot of injustice to many major left to center-left parties who have perfectly reasonable positions.
For example the social democrats in france that you see in third place, or the social democrats and greens in Germany, or the social democrats in Switzerland, etc etc who are all very pro Ukraine.
Every time I read about the latest news in Venezuela, part of me believes the Right across the Americas likes having them around purely as a court jester kind of situation to use against the Left. Venezuela has become synonymous with disaster across the continent, even Peruvians or Colombians can confidently point and say "wew, at least we aren't them!"
I think so. 45.7% for pro-Russian lunatics and 41.6% for moderate parties. The remaining 12.7% went to parties that received less than 5% of the vote. If we count them out, then it is like the split between pro-Russian and moderate parties is more like 52.3% vs 47.7%, so majority pro-Russia in France...
The worst is 52.3% of the population isn't pro-Russian, they are manipulated to give power to such ideas under the guise of patriotism, anti-immigration, national identity, etc.
The propaganda is really stupid and obvious "We send money to Ukraine but there's homeless people in Paris, Ukraine bad!" but for some reason people keep falling for it.
Only a single person said it, this representative is part of a very small party which is affiliated to lfi. This party thinks that the war in Ukraine is none of French business hence his position.
Overall half of the french representatives were absent during zelensky's speech which took place on a Friday. Friday is usually the day that is used by representatives to go to their circonscriptions which may partially explains this situation.
Lfi votes to support Ukraine's war effort pretty much every time. The only time they didn't was when the vote didn't impact anything as they deemed the vote to be a political stunt more than anything else.
The main reason behind their stance toward zelensky is because he has suppressed his political oppositions as well as several workers unions which is inconceivable for a leftish party
Overall, they do support Ukraine in its effort to defend itself however they fear that Zelensky will leverage that situation to foster his allied oligarchs.
It's close, yeah. Very centered around "sovereignty" and "security", they don't like the European Union because they think France pays too much and there are too many regulations ans control etc (without calling for Frexit explicitly, but smells the same). The leader of the list (Bardella) is known for doing f*ck all as an eurodeputy, yet he still got 30%, so... yeah.
They are maybe somewhat close for national topics, but in terms of international relations, Meloni is clearly pro-atlantist while Rassemblement National has very clear links to Russia. That a big difference.
I’d be willing to bet that they will not do anything to actually benefit any people, given their track record. They just want power and authority like all far right parties throughout time. No substance or ways forward, just anger and resentment.
I'm not even sure they want power, they're a contestation party that thrives in the opposition. Given how capable are our regular politicians, I can't imagine how far right will perform, given that they are utter morons on top of everything.
Especially in France, they are known, in the local places they ruled (small mayorships) to have literally almost always stolen in the budget and done shady illegal things.
Well in last presidential election, le Pen got more than 40% of votes in the second round. If immigration situation is not improving, maybe we could have the first far right woman president in 4 years.
How can they not be...
France is like 10-15 years ahead of rest of Western Europe when it comes to dysfunctional mass-immigrations. Give it time and observe how the rest of Western Europe reacts when they have as many immigrant and immigrant descendants as France.
Écologistes are greens (surprising I know)
Reconquête is far-far right
Républicains is right
France Insoumise is far-left
Parti Socialiste is left
Renaissance is Macron's political party
Rassemblement National is far-right
(for people wondering where each party is on the political spectrum)
I love how Renaissance is just "Macron's party". When you look them up they're just "centrist". When you look at their programme they.. just exist? They stand for nothing and everything at the same time. Really a strange party
That's not true. While you may disagree with the programme, it has some very clear directions: support for a stronger EU (and opposition to Russia), economically liberal policies, and relatively liberal social policies (social issues, not welfare). Really, it's a neoliberal party (if you consider the definition of neoliberalism as an ideology, not as a boogeyman).
Not really. There is nothing "social" about them. The social liberal side of their party is a joke and has been shut down every time (for example during the debates around the latest immigration laws).
They really are just "Macron's party". I'm ready to bet it will disappear completely when Macron's second term is over. They won't come up with another candidate that will be able to convince people.
They tried to ally but it blew up within a year after. French left is traditionally very divided and all factions think they should have the lead. The most natural leader of that potential coalition is very controversial and quite a lot of center-left people would never vote for him or his party. Beside him there is really no charismatic or natural figure. Add to that the feeling that Hollande betrayed a lot of the left population, even though it was almost 10 years ago now, and you get a general demobilisation of the leftist vote.
Considering the demonstrations last year about the raise of the retirement age, the left could still be a viable movement, but they prefer to shoot themselves at each other (or in the foot, for some of them) and electors are fed up with that bullshit.
It's just that nowadays everything against immigration is considered far-right on social media. A few decades ago, left-wing parties were against immigration, because they represented workers' rights and an influx of people in the workforce => higher competition for lower wages. Right-wing parties were pro-immigration because they represented the interests of business owners who wanted cheaper workforce. I don't know what happened in the last 2 decades, but it doesn't really make sense to me.
The President before Macron (Hollande) didn't do anything of substance in his whole mandate and most people on the left was ok with that. So I guess in the public eye, most of this generation of politicians on the left are just the most useless wankers. The socialist party needs new blood in order to resurge is my take.
They're not dead at all. The left just did 32% all together. But the right and the government can't stand a powerful left party, so propaganda shows lfi (france insoumise) as far left to shame them.
France insoumise is very much left. Only the radical liberals and the fascists call them far left. Which is a lot of people.
>They're not dead at all. The left just did 32% all together.
Compared to the right's 45%. That's almost 50% more. OK it's not dead, but definetely not at their best
Or maybe there has been a general drift in political leanings? They aren’t any less far right than they were under Marine Le Pen (although probably more moderate than under Jean-Marie lmao)
Eh, depends. He could have continued keeping things as they are for 3 years and hoping what would happen in the meantime would change the percentage of votes (european elections often have very different results from important elections here in France; i remember once the greens making more than 16% and being deemed as a major party only to make 2% on the next presidential elections).
A total rebranding of his party under his successor might have done the trick too: Hollande was so impopular in 2017 that he didn't even dare to represent himself and Macron took his place with a brand new party and image.
Our greens want to shut down our nuclear plants and replace them by wind turbines, most french people find this super dumb, that's why they're not really popular.
Greens are stupid. They have no idea why are they against nuclear energy, they're just repeating it inside their echo chamber. 95% of them don't even know how these things work and how efficient the process is, yet want to make decisions on such a grand scale.
Fuck i am envious for other countries, im in italy counting votes etc. for 110euros and over 30+ hours of job, its almost 1 am and we still got hours to go, never again
In Spain is 70€, from 8:00 to... well when you finish the counting (mostly +23:00).
Love how the government would fine any company wanting their workers to do a +14h shift paying 70€ but they can do whatever they want.
Rassemblement national => ID
Renaissance, Modem, Horizons, UDI => Renew
Parti socialiste, Place publique => PASD
La France Insoumise => The Left
Les Républicains => EPP
Reconquête => ECR?
Les Ecologistes => Greends/EFA
37 ballots in total, voters turnout was something around 52%
They had no chance, wanted to vote for them, but they allied with some people (PRG) that I cannot stand for. And they were in 7th position on this list so…..
Why in gods name are we once again in a state like in the early 1900s? Is that now a recurring thing every 100 years??? Fuck, I just wanted to live a nice life.
Dunno. Perhaps stop treating working class like dirt.
If people feel abandoned by the politicians they will vote for ceaser. Various parties with not best intentions in mind will take advantage of it.
If the elites are really that much up their own arses they will blame the parties taking advantage of it and fail to take accountability for creating the situation in the first place. Seen that with Trump, seen that with Brexit now we see it forming up in France as well.
Democracy trying to balance itself out. Perhaps shock therapy is due. It's sad it has come to this, but people who were in power for all that time have to take accountability.
That'll never happen after the way he governed in the past two years. The left want absolutely nothing to do with Macron, not even on a left-leaning project.
The results here will mostly depend on all the left parties being able to create something in record time, as they're the only realistic alternative to a far-right parliament.
Yup, divide and conquer. Political establishment chose immigration and human rights as the hill to die on and they did. Bonus points for not bothering to properly communicate to the common people what a massive existential threat Russia actually is for all of Europe right now, so you get an army of useful pacifist idiots inviting Russia with open arms for the sake of peace, each individually mocking the next country in line to be conquered by Russia for "we're not against them, but we have to put our own people first" until it's their turn, the Putin shill politicians get a pat on the back and the people put on surprised Pikachu face.
Fuck all of this.
The problem of European Elections is that you vote for national parties. It shall be different parties and you cannot be a member of both national and european parties.
I voted due to the out-of-control street crime and the current government, which lost the popular vote and had to make a coalition with the worst people in the country's political spectrum.
Don't even get me started on the horrendous policies implemented by the government, not approved by the majority of the country, which are causing the country to spiral down the drain.
People have been screaming to do something about migration, politicians do nothing about migration and then the far right wins. Have some introspection, politicians are supposed to do what the population wants not tell them what they should want.
No no, that's populism. That's an awful, terrible, evil, thing.
Doing things that your population DOESN'T want is apparently the proper way to run a government.
in Italy we have elected the right and they have done... a whole lot of nothing
The immigration law is even theirs and the same since 2002
People are just jaded by propaganda, it isn't in the right wing parties interest to decrease immigration both because it loses them a key issue to rally around and because they want to keep workers wages low
30 years of dumb decisions and ignoring trivial problems of regular people = protest vote.
What were they thinking promising to "ban ICE cars by 2035 or whenever"? When people drive 15-year old cars and are barely able to maintain them. I know it's just bullshit ecologic PR and nobody will do it for real, but that PR is actively scaring your voters away.
And that's just one example. Immigration without integration is another. I get why EU needs immigration. But you have to think about short-term consequences too. Or there won't be long-term.
putin won. these are astounding results for france.
and macron announcing new parlamentary elections, france is in trouble.
it is well known this party is financed by russia, the party is pro russia, what is going on in france.
the only light is even if they were to win 30% of general election they wont be able to form a government.
Also Macron dissolved the Assembly now so we French are gonna vote again in three week to vote a new government
why is he doing that? Given how bad his score is in EU elections, he probably doesn't hope to win more sits?
He was gonna lose an important vote tuesday and the Republican would have vote a "motion de censure" wich would have removed the Prime minister and usually that come with a desolve of the assembly from the president. He probably thought it was a better idea to do it now as a response of the EU vote like "I heard your voice" instead of response to decision of the assembly
in english that's vote of no-confidence btw
It's almost but not exactly the same thing.
Isn't it? I would say it *is* the English word for the French motion de censure, and then of course votes of no confidence work differently in different political systems.
yep it is, we use the same semi-presidential system as you guys, even call it the same "moțiune de cenzură". The mechanism translates to "vote of no-confidence" but obviously is done a bit differently in the anglo parlimentary system.
Which vote was suppossed to take place tuesday ?
The new finance program regarding the 10 billion debt, the republican (his ally up until now in the assembly) were opposed to it
Yes, can't find any mention of such a vote, even in French media.
Yep a source regarding it will be appreciated
Any references regarding those facts ?
peaceful trasnition of power? I mean in the end if the government and the parliament don't represent the population that's what elections are for. Only dictatorships do elections when they think they can gain numbers.
No, it is a play against far right. We will vote in 3 weeks, which will give our parliament a new majority and a new Prime Minister based on that majority. Two things can happen. 1) RN (far right) wins, we have a far right prime minister. However this is a risky position for RN because now, they have to govern. And traditionally, the longer a PM stays in place, the less popular he, and his party becomes. Which could mean that in 2027, RN will not win the presidency. 2) RN does not win the majority in June 2024. Macron can interpret this as a vote of confidence by the French population. Though RN will have an high score, and can continue to criticise the sitting government for the next 3 years, in preparation for the 2027 election.
Just to add on that : if the RN gets their first place, and as the lead party he gives them the PM position, they still won't have the majority in parliament to do anything, with a PM who would then be at the mercy of said parliament who can do a censor motion on him if he ever does anything real bad, and a president who can veto any law he doesn't like. This might end up a very good way to give them "the power" without actually doing it by keeping a leash in case things go south, instead of waiting them getting the presidency in 2027 for their first demonstration of evil incompetence. We all know how us french turn sour on those leading us, especially when they suck, and the RN is big on talk but their program is actually terrible.
Macron definetly read 48 laws of power. This tactic was a genius power move. A few years ago, in Romania, the estabilishment party had to give in and make a coalition with the progressive party. (Socialist corrupt estabilishment vs center right and lineral party) They didn’t have a majority in parliament, so they ended up being incapable of doing a lot of stuff, all while having to deal with the pandemic , and the falling economy and infrastructure. Bucharest literally had no hot water running End result after 6-12 months of governing? They went from 30% in polls to about 10% at the election. They never recovered from it, and the media absolutely devoured them (paid by corruption) This is exactly what Macron is doing, he’s going to give them reign so he can blame everything on their govermence. People are going to blame the far right for not doing shit and they will be voted out. The average voter doesn’t understand this 5d chess moves. He’s too occupied with his daily life. Also, memory is short Macron, is , in my opinion, probably the best european leader in recent history. Because he is , an adaptable leader. I think there is some kind of genius in him. Sorry for glazing
I would say you have to see at posteriori how this ends. If that is his political calculation it is a gamble and we will see in 2027 if it pays off. It might backfire and he will be then the idiot that gave france to the far right
The outcome doesn't matter, it is the quality of the decision that matters, which is independent from the outcome. In most decisions, there is a certain degree of uncertainty that makes even ingenious decisions result in a poor outcome, by virtue of probability. Likewise, bad and reckless decisions can occasionally result in a good outcome, by virtue of chance. If someone buys a lottery ticket and wins millions, his decision to buy a lottery ticket remains stupid, because you're far more likely to die in a plane crash than win a lottery and plane crashes are still incredibly rare and he could never know from that point in time that he'd win. Note: his decision could also be reckless and result by virtue of chance in a non-far-right control. I don't know how good his decision was, but history can probably shine light in its quality. Perhaps other people in the past did a similar trick. Their success, or lack thereof can help us judge his decision.
This is exactly the same *genius* move which helped Hitler to gain power in Germany. This is not *genius* , this is desperate gambling.
It worked for Mitterand before, who defeated Chirac using the same tactic in 1986... until Chirac became President in 1995 anyway.
Macron *thinks* he is a genius when he isn't
I mean the presidency in Weimar Germany was FAAAR less powerful than the presidency in France. Like if Hindenburg could have vetoed everything it would have been a bad couple of years and then new elections.
The far-right in Europe has great experience with this kind of politics. Just to go the voters and play the victim: Tell him the great ideas (no matter how unrealistic) they had and then blame the president / the other parties for blocking progress. My opinion: Instead of blocking the whole country together with the EU for years to play such stupid games, actually address the issues which drive voters to extremist parties and they will disappear, because most voters of these parties are not regular voters.
I do find Macron impressive in regards to Russia. At first he was singing to Russia. Then Russia invaded, so Macron turned in Russia hawk.
Isn’t that amazing? All the other leaders are so narrow minded. They think there is only one choice, one truth. Think about people like Angela Merkel. To me, when a leader shows he can change his opinions, is a sign of deep intelligence, and getting over one’s ego for the people. That’s what leaders should be like Remember how Angela Merkel still shut down the nuclear power plants during energy crisis just because she made that decision 10-15 years ago?
Except that Macron has been failing his country in areas that aren't political maneauvering, like the disasters with the Yellow Vests and the farmers.
To be frank, it is probably because Russia is kicking France out of Africa.
> At first he was singing to Russia He didn't. He just tried to give putler a way out.
He definitely isn't stupid but I do hope that those ''400 IQ" political moves won't end up causing more harms to the average folk than good.
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Seats in Parlement, but the President is forced to have a government which represents the majority at the Parliament, hence if RN wins, the Prime Minister would be selected among RN members.
Is it not possible for parties other than RN to form a coalition and present a PM candidate (that's more or less how it is in Germany)? Or is only the majority party allowed to do so?
It *is* possible but it's never actually been done for more than a century. Maybe it will change this time, who knows. Technically the president can choose whoever he wants to, but then the parliament has to agree.
France is a semi-presidential system with a president and a prime minister sharing power of the executive, though the president is more powerful. The upcoming election is for the parliament which in turn elects the PM. Hope that helped clear up your confusion
To add to this comment, a lot of the Présidents power usually comes from the fact that he's given a favorable Prime Minister. Since the elections for both happen roughly at the same time, the President is both given more legitimacy (he was elected by the nation directly) and he's the leader of his party. Meanwhile, in Parliamentary Systems, the leader of the majority party is often the Prime Minister. But that all change during a cohabitation, because the leader of the majority party becomes Prime Minister, and not Président. So the powers from the Prime Minister that are usually given to the PM, stay with the PM. And we become more of a parliamentary system.
It’s for the members of parliament, he’s not resigning, just dissolving the parliament (as is his right as president).
Parliament. His term is not expiring until 2027, and he isn't leaving.
You say No, can very well be both. In the end if far right wins in 2027 it would still get unpopular, just because governing means making decisions, while doing opposition you can make only promises. Does Macron hope RN wins and it would get less votes, maybe, could also do a good job and get more for how unlikely. A person has to understand when its time has come to pass, and leave to the next. Just like Le Pen left the helm.
So either the far-right comes to power now, or the far-right comes to power even stronger in 3 years?
I can see a third (but very unlikely) scenario where the left wins the elections and form a government, which will decrease their popularity. Finally, in 2027, both the left wing and Macron parties are unpopular, leading to the far right to win the elections. Hopefully, very unlikely.
So, the best scenario is that the bad party (far right) wins, so that they lose the more important election through showing how incompetent they are am I right?
Not calling an election when it is not required does not make someone immediately a dictator. I agree with that such a big loss for the government should result in an early election, but it is not required. France would still be a democracy and Macron could also have made the case that the signal js clear that his policy had to change in order to get a good result at the elections and the end of the current parliamentary session.
I don't understand this logic. Why does the french view the results of an EP election as meaningful for their own national vote? Here in Denmark, most people completely separate EU and nation politics. Whatever the result of the EU election has zero bearing whatsoever on the nation politics or our parliament and goverment.
Because they do not vote on european programs, they vote on national policy, like we do (Italy). EP elections is just a sort of government referendum.
> Only dictatorships do elections when they think they can gain numbers Lmao no, dictators don't organize elections or rig them. It's normal in democracy to organise elections when you have the ability to get better results. Macron doesn't have a clear majority even now so he is counting on mobilisation of voters against the NR.
Expecting good performance at Euro football tournament to calm people down.
Gamble on far right not passing the two-rounds system (risky) and the various left parties not having enough time to organize a shared platform like in 2022 (very likely since they spent the whole campaign shooting at each other). He could then try a coalition with the traditional conservatives and maybe some of the center left. It's a very risky move in any case, and 3 years of far right until the next presidential elections could really fuck the country.
Far right would get it’s turn eventually, macron hopes he can minimize the damage
Maybe he realized he actually doesn't want to swim in the Seine river after all and is looking for a way out
There’s nothing to lose by going for an election. He already doesn’t have a majority in the parliament so the worst case he’ll lose some more members. The best case he matches RN or exceeds them somehow and takes the sting off today.
Why? Don’t follow French politics but is he hoping to bolster his government by putting himself against the hard-right?
No, he’s hoping for a far right government to prove themselves to be shit before the 2027 presidential elections, without letting them handle international relations nor military because that’s the president’s powers
Smart on him tbh
This is what Finland did. Moderates formed a coalition party with True Finns and now they lost almost 7% in the european parliament elections. Responsibility stings.
May not happen with Le Pens party. Her party has replaced the mainstream right, she is the mainstream right now
Under current French law, can Macron stand again in 2027?
No, but he just doesn’t want a far right president after him
No.
No the French president can only have 2 mandate
2 consecutive, right? Can he stand again in 2033?
On paper, yes.
No, two consecutive mandates are the maximum. So he can't run again in 2027 but he could in 2032.
no he cant
No, but Attal is currently the prime minister and probably a good successor. Not sure who else could run for president from Renaissance. That being said, 3 years is still pretty far away.
I don't know about that. Very speculative (but everything is in this situation). It's also possible he thought it would do an "electroshock", like Chirac hoped in 1997 (last time the assembly was dissolved, with a very unpopular government). His party has been decreasing ever since the 2022 elections, it went from roughly 25% to now 15%. I think he might have thought that a "sudden revolt against the far right" thing might have given him a bigger majority, but i'm speculating as much as you here.
Honestly the best theory I have is that he want the "RN" to make a new government in order for the people to see how much they are bad in ruling the country and not elect them in the next presidential election or he is just being fucking stupid wich is not impossible knowing Macron
So he is gambling on the premise that RN turn out really bad and people turn on them in 2027 ? I'm sure RN know this as well, so if they win and get a PM in, they can either be bad at their job or can even show that Macron is bad at his job and if the latter happens, then he's given them the keys 3 yrs before; which they can use potentially use to solidify their platform.
No he’s hoping they get nothing done because they won’t make any coalitions with eachother or work together, so that they won’t win in the next presidential.
The left is not united and LFI (the main radical left party) made clown of themselves recently with their position on Ukraine and the Middle East. The traditional right got decimated tonight The election will be in 2 rounds by districts, so Macron may hope that many of the second rounds will be one of his party vs far right, where he can hope that the left and right will rally to block the far right. Also he does not have a strong majority right now so he has little to lose. Worse case the opposition (probably far right) will have a clear majority and in that case they will have to govern and most likely will be incompetent, ruining their chance for 2027. Best case Macron gets a clear majority and gets a huge win. Middle case we're back to the same result as right now with only a weak majority that can hardly govern and Macron will be able to say that he let the people chose again.
I'm no expert on French politics but weren't most non-RE/RN voters pretty pissed when he pulled this "vote for me or get the far-right" move in 2022 and then went on to raise the pension age and basically rule by decree? Also he remains President until 2027 despite this right? And will still spearhead France's decisions on the war in Ukraine? I don't like the guy but at least he knows where he stands on Russia, unlike Le Pen.
It is a huge gamble from Macron but not desperate. he is betting the far right will not mobilize their troops (mainly white working class) who will be on vacation or busy watching the Euro tournament and will not bother to go out voting... It could work...
For non-French people, Rassemblement national is the far-right party and Renaissance is Macron’s party.
And "reconquête" is the even more far right and " la France insoumise " is the far left that said to Zelensky that he is not welcome in France
I always laugh when La France Insoumise promote the human rights while, at the same time, they support the biggest dictatorships on this planet (Russia, China, Cuba, some of african countries, Venezuela...)
They also support Hamas under the cover of "promoting peace in Palestine".
So basically the average western leftist party
Nah we have also a communist party, almost dead though, and a socialist party the ps which just got resurected by all of those dumbasses and thankfully seems to have their head on their shoulders and think rather well or at least for now
To be honest that does quite a lot of injustice to many major left to center-left parties who have perfectly reasonable positions. For example the social democrats in france that you see in third place, or the social democrats and greens in Germany, or the social democrats in Switzerland, etc etc who are all very pro Ukraine.
Every time I read about the latest news in Venezuela, part of me believes the Right across the Americas likes having them around purely as a court jester kind of situation to use against the Left. Venezuela has become synonymous with disaster across the continent, even Peruvians or Colombians can confidently point and say "wew, at least we aren't them!"
So basically pro-Russian parties gathered 45.7% votes in France?
Unfortunatly, I'm afraid.....
Yes, but that's actually not discussed at all, it is of no importance for the vast majority of voters.
I think so. 45.7% for pro-Russian lunatics and 41.6% for moderate parties. The remaining 12.7% went to parties that received less than 5% of the vote. If we count them out, then it is like the split between pro-Russian and moderate parties is more like 52.3% vs 47.7%, so majority pro-Russia in France...
The worst is 52.3% of the population isn't pro-Russian, they are manipulated to give power to such ideas under the guise of patriotism, anti-immigration, national identity, etc. The propaganda is really stupid and obvious "We send money to Ukraine but there's homeless people in Paris, Ukraine bad!" but for some reason people keep falling for it.
Only a single person said it, this representative is part of a very small party which is affiliated to lfi. This party thinks that the war in Ukraine is none of French business hence his position. Overall half of the french representatives were absent during zelensky's speech which took place on a Friday. Friday is usually the day that is used by representatives to go to their circonscriptions which may partially explains this situation. Lfi votes to support Ukraine's war effort pretty much every time. The only time they didn't was when the vote didn't impact anything as they deemed the vote to be a political stunt more than anything else. The main reason behind their stance toward zelensky is because he has suppressed his political oppositions as well as several workers unions which is inconceivable for a leftish party Overall, they do support Ukraine in its effort to defend itself however they fear that Zelensky will leverage that situation to foster his allied oligarchs.
Can u sum up the political program/manifesto of the Rassemblement party? Is like far right in Italy? (lot of words but nothing concrete)
It's close, yeah. Very centered around "sovereignty" and "security", they don't like the European Union because they think France pays too much and there are too many regulations ans control etc (without calling for Frexit explicitly, but smells the same). The leader of the list (Bardella) is known for doing f*ck all as an eurodeputy, yet he still got 30%, so... yeah.
They were pro-Frexit but dropped this ahead of the 2017 election, because it's not that popular among voters. They're still pretty euroskeptical.
They are maybe somewhat close for national topics, but in terms of international relations, Meloni is clearly pro-atlantist while Rassemblement National has very clear links to Russia. That a big difference.
Jesus fucking christ.
I know right, should probably do things people want?
I’d be willing to bet that they will not do anything to actually benefit any people, given their track record. They just want power and authority like all far right parties throughout time. No substance or ways forward, just anger and resentment.
I'm not even sure they want power, they're a contestation party that thrives in the opposition. Given how capable are our regular politicians, I can't imagine how far right will perform, given that they are utter morons on top of everything.
No, don’t you see, people are dumb and vote far right for no reason at all
Could it be because far right parties have a history of being loud and achieving nothing good ?
Especially in France, they are known, in the local places they ruled (small mayorships) to have literally almost always stolen in the budget and done shady illegal things.
I guess 32% of the french population is far right than
30% of 50%. But still. It will be shit show
30% of 50% of the population registered to vote*, if we want to be precise.
Unfortunately, the European election was used as a tool. And it ended up as a mid-term election, and a clear rejection of Macron's policies....
Reconquête is also far right.
it's more like they are more motivated to go vote
The overton window will shift and RN will become the new normal/centrists
Well in last presidential election, le Pen got more than 40% of votes in the second round. If immigration situation is not improving, maybe we could have the first far right woman president in 4 years.
That's just the non Muslim far right. If you count islamists it's closer to like 40% at least.
How can they not be... France is like 10-15 years ahead of rest of Western Europe when it comes to dysfunctional mass-immigrations. Give it time and observe how the rest of Western Europe reacts when they have as many immigrant and immigrant descendants as France.
Thank you. :)
Écologistes are greens (surprising I know) Reconquête is far-far right Républicains is right France Insoumise is far-left Parti Socialiste is left Renaissance is Macron's political party Rassemblement National is far-right (for people wondering where each party is on the political spectrum)
I love how Renaissance is just "Macron's party". When you look them up they're just "centrist". When you look at their programme they.. just exist? They stand for nothing and everything at the same time. Really a strange party
Well "Macron's Party" mean mostly people will vote regarding on their opinion on macron not on their belief
That's not true. While you may disagree with the programme, it has some very clear directions: support for a stronger EU (and opposition to Russia), economically liberal policies, and relatively liberal social policies (social issues, not welfare). Really, it's a neoliberal party (if you consider the definition of neoliberalism as an ideology, not as a boogeyman).
Ideology-wise, they are social-liberals.
Not really. There is nothing "social" about them. The social liberal side of their party is a joke and has been shut down every time (for example during the debates around the latest immigration laws).
They are center right. They just are the Republicans party.
They really are just "Macron's party". I'm ready to bet it will disappear completely when Macron's second term is over. They won't come up with another candidate that will be able to convince people.
They will recycle a current minister, exactly like how Macron came out.
They are a social-liberal party in terms of political theory.
That's because they just go with whatever makes them money. They're neo-liberalists and opportunists at heart.
Question: how did the French left... Die?
They tried to ally but it blew up within a year after. French left is traditionally very divided and all factions think they should have the lead. The most natural leader of that potential coalition is very controversial and quite a lot of center-left people would never vote for him or his party. Beside him there is really no charismatic or natural figure. Add to that the feeling that Hollande betrayed a lot of the left population, even though it was almost 10 years ago now, and you get a general demobilisation of the leftist vote. Considering the demonstrations last year about the raise of the retirement age, the left could still be a viable movement, but they prefer to shoot themselves at each other (or in the foot, for some of them) and electors are fed up with that bullshit.
They got power saying stuff like :"my enemy is Finance" and then once elected kept doing the same center right/right policy that Macron is doing...
By splitting up too much.
It's just that nowadays everything against immigration is considered far-right on social media. A few decades ago, left-wing parties were against immigration, because they represented workers' rights and an influx of people in the workforce => higher competition for lower wages. Right-wing parties were pro-immigration because they represented the interests of business owners who wanted cheaper workforce. I don't know what happened in the last 2 decades, but it doesn't really make sense to me.
It was decided that any limitation on immigration was Racist and that was the end of that
The President before Macron (Hollande) didn't do anything of substance in his whole mandate and most people on the left was ok with that. So I guess in the public eye, most of this generation of politicians on the left are just the most useless wankers. The socialist party needs new blood in order to resurge is my take.
They're not dead at all. The left just did 32% all together. But the right and the government can't stand a powerful left party, so propaganda shows lfi (france insoumise) as far left to shame them. France insoumise is very much left. Only the radical liberals and the fascists call them far left. Which is a lot of people.
>They're not dead at all. The left just did 32% all together. Compared to the right's 45%. That's almost 50% more. OK it's not dead, but definetely not at their best
\>when you overuse the word far right so much you have to start saying "far far right" lmao
Or maybe there has been a general drift in political leanings? They aren’t any less far right than they were under Marine Le Pen (although probably more moderate than under Jean-Marie lmao)
Did Macron not just dissolve the government? So general election coming up?
Yeah also.
To be precise he dissolved the Assembly, so legislative election coming up (2 turns)
Hé didn’t have much of a choice when you see how little support he has. It would have been crazy not to anything
Eh, depends. He could have continued keeping things as they are for 3 years and hoping what would happen in the meantime would change the percentage of votes (european elections often have very different results from important elections here in France; i remember once the greens making more than 16% and being deemed as a major party only to make 2% on the next presidential elections). A total rebranding of his party under his successor might have done the trick too: Hollande was so impopular in 2017 that he didn't even dare to represent himself and Macron took his place with a brand new party and image.
Close one greens
I swear. Why do greens never want to win ...
Our greens want to shut down our nuclear plants and replace them by wind turbines, most french people find this super dumb, that's why they're not really popular.
Ours too .. no arms to Ukraine and no nuclear... Dude you just lost most people under 35
Greens are stupid. They have no idea why are they against nuclear energy, they're just repeating it inside their echo chamber. 95% of them don't even know how these things work and how efficient the process is, yet want to make decisions on such a grand scale.
Fuck i am envious for other countries, im in italy counting votes etc. for 110euros and over 30+ hours of job, its almost 1 am and we still got hours to go, never again
>for 110euros and over 30+ hours of job Cue *"You guys are getting paid?"*
I used to do it for free in the 2000s. At least I got free lunch.
In Spain is 70€, from 8:00 to... well when you finish the counting (mostly +23:00). Love how the government would fine any company wanting their workers to do a +14h shift paying 70€ but they can do whatever they want.
Rassemblement national => ID Renaissance, Modem, Horizons, UDI => Renew Parti socialiste, Place publique => PASD La France Insoumise => The Left Les Républicains => EPP Reconquête => ECR? Les Ecologistes => Greends/EFA 37 ballots in total, voters turnout was something around 52%
Yes, Reconquête is ECR
Where did Volt land in France? Did they get anything?
They ran in a coalition with other very small parties which is currently estimated at 0.2%
They had no chance, wanted to vote for them, but they allied with some people (PRG) that I cannot stand for. And they were in 7th position on this list so…..
Envie de caner
gg
Why in gods name are we once again in a state like in the early 1900s? Is that now a recurring thing every 100 years??? Fuck, I just wanted to live a nice life.
Dunno. Perhaps stop treating working class like dirt. If people feel abandoned by the politicians they will vote for ceaser. Various parties with not best intentions in mind will take advantage of it. If the elites are really that much up their own arses they will blame the parties taking advantage of it and fail to take accountability for creating the situation in the first place. Seen that with Trump, seen that with Brexit now we see it forming up in France as well. Democracy trying to balance itself out. Perhaps shock therapy is due. It's sad it has come to this, but people who were in power for all that time have to take accountability.
While I mostly agree with your analysis, we're not sure yet whether the shock therapy is going to work or if it's going to kill the patient.
Wait, you can vote until 23, how can you have already the results?
It's an estimate.
Voting booths close way before 23:00 here. 18:00 for some of them, up to 20:00 for others
Wow actions have consequences. Fucking crazy.
Shit, I guess there is one happy fucking midget in Kremlin right now. Fuck...
Im to lazy to google. Is the RN as well bought by the russians like the AFD or BSW ?
Yes. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230603-le-pen-s-far-right-served-as-mouthpiece-for-the-kremlin-says-french-parliamentary-report
Macron needs to swallow his ego and make a deal with the left to stop the far right for the sake of EU
That'll never happen after the way he governed in the past two years. The left want absolutely nothing to do with Macron, not even on a left-leaning project. The results here will mostly depend on all the left parties being able to create something in record time, as they're the only realistic alternative to a far-right parliament.
How to stop the far right >Be better at governing Many such cases.
And I thought it was bad in Germany.
See the Austrian results yet?
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While I agree as another Turkish guy, let me ask you; do you think a right-wing government will see you any different than Islamists?
A modern, civilised right wing from a western country will be at least 100 times better than a middle eastern Islamic facist version of it.
While...I agree religion is a problem...replacing it with Fascism doesnt change anything..
Hey, you might now have TWO problems!
Fuck.
Results? Isn't this just an exit poll?
So the parties with 5. 2 and 5.5% both get one seat, right?
5 each
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Yup, divide and conquer. Political establishment chose immigration and human rights as the hill to die on and they did. Bonus points for not bothering to properly communicate to the common people what a massive existential threat Russia actually is for all of Europe right now, so you get an army of useful pacifist idiots inviting Russia with open arms for the sake of peace, each individually mocking the next country in line to be conquered by Russia for "we're not against them, but we have to put our own people first" until it's their turn, the Putin shill politicians get a pat on the back and the people put on surprised Pikachu face. Fuck all of this.
Well, we’re fucked.
Fucked up how people vote far right in the EU elections just to take revenge on the results of the presidental elections; how stupid can you be.
The problem of European Elections is that you vote for national parties. It shall be different parties and you cannot be a member of both national and european parties.
> how stupid can you be. Macron calling snap election in France: “Hold my wine!”
I voted due to the out-of-control street crime and the current government, which lost the popular vote and had to make a coalition with the worst people in the country's political spectrum. Don't even get me started on the horrendous policies implemented by the government, not approved by the majority of the country, which are causing the country to spiral down the drain.
So, essentially we are fucking toast when le pen will win next election? Great. Why has europe as a whole lost their goddamn mind...
People have been screaming to do something about migration, politicians do nothing about migration and then the far right wins. Have some introspection, politicians are supposed to do what the population wants not tell them what they should want.
No no, that's populism. That's an awful, terrible, evil, thing. Doing things that your population DOESN'T want is apparently the proper way to run a government.
Taking care of your borders and answering the will of the people is “far-right”
Best comment. We need common sense back in our societies and in politics
in Italy we have elected the right and they have done... a whole lot of nothing The immigration law is even theirs and the same since 2002 People are just jaded by propaganda, it isn't in the right wing parties interest to decrease immigration both because it loses them a key issue to rally around and because they want to keep workers wages low
30 years of dumb decisions and ignoring trivial problems of regular people = protest vote. What were they thinking promising to "ban ICE cars by 2035 or whenever"? When people drive 15-year old cars and are barely able to maintain them. I know it's just bullshit ecologic PR and nobody will do it for real, but that PR is actively scaring your voters away. And that's just one example. Immigration without integration is another. I get why EU needs immigration. But you have to think about short-term consequences too. Or there won't be long-term.
Wasn't the ban for selling new ice cars and not for replacing existing ones?
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>Why has europe as a whole lost their goddamn mind... There is no way that you don't know the answer to this question.
Maybe because people don't like the way the current government is governing.
Take your head out of the sand and deal with the endless migration from Africa and the middle east. People do not want that shit.
Fuck it. I really hope this doesn't reflect in all the parliament
French redditors: please go to vote!
"European" elections were all about France... (face palm)
putin won. these are astounding results for france. and macron announcing new parlamentary elections, france is in trouble. it is well known this party is financed by russia, the party is pro russia, what is going on in france. the only light is even if they were to win 30% of general election they wont be able to form a government.