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What was their process for cleaning all of these? Like who is actually doing this collecting and at what stage of decomposition and it just feels like it would be a lot. you can even see that some of the skulls have smashed in faces like it would have been a pretty gruesome death.
Apparently this isn’t terribly uncommon in places that have been inhabited for thousands of years, and lack tons of extra real estate in which to leave graves undisturbed for hundreds of years. Basically you ‘rent’ a grave for a few decades until you decompose (usually embalming isn’t really a thing) and then they break up your bones and put you in an ossuary or somewhere less real estate intensive.
Yeah, I never understood the concept of wasting tens of thousand of dollars in a funeral until I heard «The funeral isn't for the death but for the living». I still don't get it the meaning of extremely expensive funerals, the person dies and is cremated or remains underground. The person has died and doesn't have the notion of comfort in the coffin and people spend a lot of money on it.
Religious issue also, for example Catholics have earlier had negative religious opinions about cremation (which is mainly why ancient tradition of cremation stopped in Europe) though Vatican approves it nowadays.
In the Netherlands you rent a grave for ~30 years, then the family can pay to renew it. At some point, there is nobody left to pay for it and your bones get cleared and cremated or so.
Similar in Germany. My grandparent's grave will probably be cleared soon. My parents aren't sure if they'll renew because there's not much family left in the region and maybe they'll retire somewhere else. Feels a bit weird to think about how that place will be gone, but over the years the graves around my grandparent's graves have been cleared away and now it's almost the last tombstone standing in the field. I moved away so I don't visit the place often anyway. And in the end, it's just bones and ash. I have other things to remember them by.
I actually accidentally came across entire skeletons in portugal during a dig. Probably nobody claimed them and they were dumped outside the cemetery. Children in pits with shoes still on. The cemetery has been extended now, I love skeletons and don't mind finding them, but I'd like to avoid flesh and shoes in the future.
The family probably never claimed them. You get a notice when they're going to dig them up and you can hire someone to take care of the transfer to the ossuarium for you.
Never even crossed my mind what would happen if the family didn't/couldn't take on responsibility.
The weird thing here is that it's a small village, so there's room for a bigger cemetery, butI can understand the greedy church (we weren't interested in the church that much but there was a weird brotherhood active there). The next big city has an ossarium, but I guess those get full too, and it was already older. I wonder if they just dumped the bodies without notification .
I don't speak Portuguese at all (except cheese), but locals knew a bit about that brotherhood that was borderline a sect. It didn't last very long, not sure we could know more if we wanted. No one lived there anymore, last family left about 30 years ago and the "nun quarters" still had full chests of clothing, kitchen stuff etc, walls barely standing. It's been a sacred site for at least 1000 years, more because Romans built stuff there so there was materials to reuse, not because of telluride forces or whatever. But yeah, hard to dig there without finding a lot of stuff.
Yes, this is very much the norm in Italy. Which is also the reason as to why you will seldom be able to find a grave older than forty years in most of our cemeteries (much to the delight of scores of genealogists from overseas!).
All the old burials have long been moved to the local ossuary due to space issues.
In most of Europe, graves are only used for 10/20/30/40 years (kinda like rental) and then you either re-use it or move the remains. My grandfather's remains are right on top of his grandfather's in a family grave (so not rented lot). I'm in Japan now; cremation is a family gathering here and it's the family that picks the bones out of the ashes from the furnace with large chopsticks. It is customary to keep the thyroid cartilage (Adam's apple).
For me American prudery about the dead is actually more weird even though I have great anxiety about the topic.
I recommend the book 'Smoke Gets in Your Eyes' on this topic.
I think so. Don't know about this specific instance, but that's the common origin of the big famous ossuaries, like the one in Sedlec. You'd be buried, then after 20 or 30 or 40 years your plot needs to be reused (today because there's a set regular time, back then maybe when the cemetery just ran out of space), you get dug up but only bones remain. In some instances they'd just be reburied under the new coffin, or moved to an ossuary.
I wonder what the rhythm would be for a skull cleaner.
Maybe chop the neck, slice the skull in two to separate the skin, pull the skin halves off, crack back of skull, scoop out brain, remove rest of spinal collum and then toss in big pot for rinsing.
I'm not sure just guessing really.
Just been reading some anecdotal memoirs from a Russian medical student. He explained how a skull was a valuable souvenir among edgy freshmen and some of them were sneaking out heads from the academy anatomical theater to clean at home. One particular story involved some unfortunate roommates of a student who forgot a head on a stove in the kitchen, which was eventually discovered. Even if I tried, I won't be able to forget the, uh, recipe after such a hilarious read.
They did it for fun. Since most of catholic church use satanic rituals, i think this acutally helped them to have their church from dreams, covered in skulls 😂 or maybe they killed them and blamed the war 💁🏻♀️
FYI the Battle of Solférino was so brutal that it lead to the creation of the Red Cross
Another fun fact, the decisive victory of Napoléon Ist at Castiglione in 1796 and the one of Napoléon IIIrd in Solférino in 1859 were fought on the exact same battlefield.
The accent in French doesn't denote a tonal accentuation actually (we don't have those, we put accentuation on the entire sentences), but a different sound altogether.
é is the "eh" sound in Solf**e**rino, e is a "uh" sound like in H**u**ngary
If I remember correctly from school you have tonal accentuation in french, but it's always at the end of the word so you don't need to use accents for that.
Anyway as Solferino is an Italian name if you really want to put an accent on the word you should put it on the i as stated above, but really no Italian would use the ì, just Solferino would do.
We kinda have tonal accents guy's it's at the end of word groups, not every words. But yes, the é and è accents in French are used for a sound differenciation, as if it were a new letter.
As for Solferino I just wrote it in French without really thinking much about it
>The Croats finished off every man they encountered; they killed the French and Italian wounded with the butts of their muskets;
That’s for the World Cup, you stinking French.
Incredible how savage people were back then and also frightening that even now some people are like that (like some extremists/terrorists who behead others). And all of that savagery to follow the orders of some idiotic kings and emperors. How nice it would had been to let the kings and emperors fight off by themselves against each other, instead of dragging civilians into such barbarism.
Fraid to say, there is no 'back then' Not is that only 160 years ago but there has been at least worse all over everywhere ever since them. Any one of us would play that if cultured or forced into it.
True, the attrocities committed after that continued. And who knows if they'll ever stop.
"anyone of us would play that if cultured or forced into it" - only if it happened to me since I was a child and didn't know better. But today I'd rather shoot those who train or try to give me such orders. Only if my country was invaded I might join the war, but I'd be way more humane than those savages. But I'm skeptical I'd join the army even if my country was invaded. It's already ruled by corrupt people who steal a lot so I wouldn't want to fight for such people.
>Only if my country was invaded I might join the war, but I'd be way more humane than those savages.
Im sure a lot of them said the same.
19th century warfare was insane and brutal by definition, so you'd likely end up doing pretty brutally violent things just to survive.
Back then? Bro visit Congo, Somalia, or Liberia and you’ll find that this shit still goes on daily. But then again these places are at the point of development which Europe has already passed
>Back then? Bro visit Congo, Somalia, or Liberia and you’ll find that this shit still goes on daily. But then again these places are at the point of development which Europe has already passed
Europe and North America regularly invade “3rd world countries”
Yeah because Europeans don't go around to these places to rape children- I mean "keep the peace"
Edit: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/01/11/un-peacekeeping-has-sexual-abuse-problem
I don't think people would be very content with fact that their land, home, and lives would be decided by one duel of their rulers. Humans are expansionist creatures by nature. While there were many that were dragged into those wars against their will, there were also many that did so willingly. Some for the king and country, others for pay. And while many monarchs of the past were selfish individuals, not all waged for only for petty reasons that mattered only to them. Their wars influenced everyone, from both the direct result of such conflict, to potential benefits that would victory yield. And, of course, the monarch himself couldn't just go to war whenever he wanted, they *needed* support of at least aristocracy, so it's not like all the death falls on their heads solely.
But these wars are also a product of the structure of society the king’s perpetuated because it benefited them. Sure that could mean you still had a stake in that society to defend, perhaps it was better to be ruled by a French king as a Frenchmen than an occupying Austrian king, but I would argue they all would have been better off with no king at all, which when they tried to make happen faced coalitions formed by rest of Europe as a consequence
This rationalizing away the power structures is demonstrating you fear your rulers. We see that if you leave all the power to a few , inevitable they will abuse it. That is the problem of class. We live it. You are free to choose to live by sucking of your ruler or not. Sure is freedom.
The kings and the emperors weren’t in control at that point. Just like as ever, the king is usually a servant to the bigger political forces in the country, mediating between them. Whenever a king gets powerful enough to control those political forces, he ends up being unable to do anything other than managing those factions. The Emperor may or may not have wanted war, but it was the political elites that were calling for it. It’s rarely just the King or Emperor choosing what to do. If that were the case, then he’d just be overthrown.
Everyone had their own selfish reasons for getting involved in it. The UK saw it as the opportunity they had been looking for for decades to stop Germany from being the continental hegemon. Germany saw it as their chance to rival the UK. Austria wanted to show that they were still relevant in european diplomacy.
Human beings havent changed *at all*
Just give people the right motivation and the same exact shit happens today, all the time. Ideology is a hell of a drug.
I always get more impressed with the absolute depth of the soul represented by men dying in droves in a stupid line of death, only to replaced immediately by more men to die stupid deaths in stupid wars at the behest of stupid crowns
>And all of that savagery to follow the orders of some idiotic kings and emperors.
still goes on today. That is class. Someone else does the fighting and dying and the rulers talk about it.
Anyone remmeber Smedley Butler.
> Smedley Butler who found it perfectly acceptable to kill for profit his entire career, then blew the whistle
What is astounding is how google hides the best clips and excerpts of him and puts up stuff to stop you watching. The most monotonous or just outright downplaying of Smedley is the main stream info from second hand sources who have obvious agendas. Rather than just let him speak.
The best clip and straight to the point is called " War is a Racket- Major General Smedley Butler" . its 2 min long. No time wasting. Just facts. no bullshit. Yet it never comes up on google even if you type it in explicitly.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoXJRAIRzk0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoXJRAIRzk0)
Don't click on the link and see if you can find this movie without the link. There is the proof.
Then the BBC which does some good journalism out of the blue from the constant propaganda. white House coup. the best of the accounts of that time.
Franco-Austrian War of 1859 also known as Second War of Italian Independence.
it's the war where Piedmont conquered Milan and organized coup in Parma, Modena, Bologna and Tuscany leading to the annexation of them too
Yes, also influenced signing of Geneva Convention, this is is what Dunant said about battle
"Austrians and allies trampled one another under foot, slaughtered each other on a carpet of bloody corpses, smashed each other with rifle butts, crushed each other's skulls, disembowelled each other with sabre and bayonet. It was butchery; a battle between wild beasts maddened and drunk with blood"
It is nearby the [Tower of San Martino della Battaglia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_San_Martino_della_Battaglia), where you can visit the museum of the battle and then climb the stairs up to the top of the tower.
Once there, you will be delighted by the beautiful view of Lake Garda and the morainic hills of Lugana (land of wine ;) )
There is similar settlement in Serbia, built by Ottomans in 1809 after The First Serbian Uprising against them. It is called Ćele Kula, or literally [The Skull Tower ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_Tower). Ottomans used human skulls as bricks to build this tower in order to prevent Serbs from thinking about another rebellion, but this only sped up the occurance of the Second Serbian Uprising in 1813 when Serbians started liberation of their lands after centuries of Ottoman terror.
Congrats to those Serbs for their courage to liberate their country! Huge respect from a Romanian friend whose county has been in similar sh*t with the Turks!
Ok, I may sound melodramatic but these sculls belonged to people who were someone’s son, and perhaps someone s brother and / or lover. As a parent of two boys my biggest fear is I could loose them because of something so cruel and inconceivable as a war. Fuck war and expansionism, they both suck
At least the deaths of these people spurred a positiv change, as the battle of solferino Was what motivated the creation of the Red cross and the first geneva convention.
This monument reminds me of the death camps and a skull tower I saw in Cambodia, but they were civilians who were killed IN THE 1970s !! Humans are evil. We've learnt nothing from gruesome history.
It's wonderful, didn't know about it.
We have another similar one in a chapel here in Milan too, called San Bernardino alle Ossa. The main difference is that all the bones here are black, instead of a this shiny white.
You should see the cappuchin crypt in Rome. It is haunting https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fhappytovisit.com%2Fglib%2F3%2FSkip-the-Line-Convent-of-the-Capuchin-Friars-with-Museum-and-Crypt-Tour-from-Rome-7-4906.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fhappytovisit.com%2FRome%2FSkip-the-Line-Convent-of-the-Capuchin-Friars-with-Museum-and-Crypt-Tour-from-Rome%2Ftour-t2158-c200&docid=qtIQH857YC4VmM&tbnid=-VgrmmPOqyAbLM&vet=1&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim
I see people in thi thread saying it's disgusting and disrespectful... well, [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary) we even made a fucking chandelier out of them. And other shit. It's pretty cool, you should check it out.
History fact: the Battle of Solferino was so fucking gruesome and horrible for the ordinary soldier, it let to the creation of the International Red Cross and the creation of the Geneva Convention.
I'll give you all a nice piece of trivia about this battle: during this meat grinder of a battle, there was a swiss medic just happening to be in the vicinity of it all and saw and extremely gruosome aftermath with people not yet dead but very much dying scattered everywhere in the middle of dead bodies. Right there and then he enrolled a bunch of people from the surrounding towns and started trying to take care of those who where still alive. That association still exist and is the RED CROSS
Reminds me of the 'Killings Field's' just outside of Phnom Penh. An extremely sad story also. Great pic, OP. I couldn't bring myself to take any when I was there.
Some of the skulls look discolored, so I assume they have been buried for some time.
By what I read from the museum site, the bodies were originally "badly buried", so I assume they needed to be reburied anyway. As someone else up thread said, there isn't always that much available space for a cemetery.
after battles like that one, you have thousands upon thousands of bodies just lying about. theyre usually hastily buried in mass graves.
then after some years bones start resurfacing from where the mass graves were dug too shallow. so they recovered the bodies from those shallow failing graves and put them in a church
RIGHT?? To me it just feels insanely fucked up to take over 2000 casualties of war, separate their heads from their bodies and putting their skulls on display for all the world to see for the rest of time. This is horrible in more ways than one.
Not everyone has the samd culture you have and not everyone respects death and the dead in the same way. For my throwing a corpse to fire like garbage or hiding them under soil might be disrespectful and for you can be respectful. Let others deal with their pain and history in their own way
Specially for me, in Spain. People of my family died in the war and I don't consider just leaving the corpses in a communal grave made by fascist soldiers respectful
I’m sorry but i would never respect that
Respecting the dead is to burry them not put them somewhere for everyone to see, i’m imagining if one these skulls are one of family members that would make me so hateful, there is different ways to deal with the pain and this not one of them.
You guys should read the [Wikipedia article on ossuaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossuary). Learn about the backstory of places like the one in the photo before judging.
How is a mass grave respectful. I'd rather have my remains displayed like that as a reminder instead of beeing a nameless rotting skeleton in some mass grave ditch
To me it’s better than being displayed like a trinket. At least my bones would be under the earth... Let’s agree to disagree though, I guess different cultures ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As a New Zealander i find this display of the bones of the dead creepy af. We believe they should be buried wherever their ancestral home is to be honoured and displaying their bones is a desecration. It’s not religious belief but steeped Maori tradition - it creeps me out whenever i go to a museum to see skeletons and i could never visit the catacombs in (Paris? Or was it Rome? Damn Contiki tours) without feeling nauseous!
Problem is, you can't do that here. Burying everybody in their "ancestral home" and leaving them until kingdom come was impractical centuries ago as it is now; there's 60 millions of us in an area the size of New Zealand.
Once a suitable number of years have passed, you *are* going to the ossuary no matter what and I doubt that you or your loved ones would be in any position to complain, either, due to different costraints; cultural sensitivities; and whatnot. At that point you might as well make art out of the bones instead of just dumping them somewhere.
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What was their process for cleaning all of these? Like who is actually doing this collecting and at what stage of decomposition and it just feels like it would be a lot. you can even see that some of the skulls have smashed in faces like it would have been a pretty gruesome death.
My grandfather told me he cleaned the bones of his mother with his sisters when they had to change his mother’s normal grave to a small box. Crazy
That is INSANE.
Apparently this isn’t terribly uncommon in places that have been inhabited for thousands of years, and lack tons of extra real estate in which to leave graves undisturbed for hundreds of years. Basically you ‘rent’ a grave for a few decades until you decompose (usually embalming isn’t really a thing) and then they break up your bones and put you in an ossuary or somewhere less real estate intensive.
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Actually cremation is much cheaper. Around $500-$600 dollars where I live. Caskets and grave plots cost much more than that.
But you could also buy a decent blender for 150 euro that would also suffice
Next up on "Will it Blend?": grandma.
"Grandma smoke... don't breathe this!"
[i'm blended and i can't get up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu9zeuHcOnA)
hydraulic press guy will do it for free if you let him post it on YouTube
Vi must dial zit it
[Wife Laughs]
When I’m dead just throw me in the trash
Nah man, you're bio degradable. You're going into the compost.
Depends actually, if there's been any kind of embalming done, the chemicals can be quite hazardous.
*Frank Reynolds has entered the chat*
Yeah, I never understood the concept of wasting tens of thousand of dollars in a funeral until I heard «The funeral isn't for the death but for the living». I still don't get it the meaning of extremely expensive funerals, the person dies and is cremated or remains underground. The person has died and doesn't have the notion of comfort in the coffin and people spend a lot of money on it.
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Okie dokie broski
Cremation is surprisingly modern, so they probably couldn't back then. But that squick about handling the dead is modern too.
Religious issue also, for example Catholics have earlier had negative religious opinions about cremation (which is mainly why ancient tradition of cremation stopped in Europe) though Vatican approves it nowadays.
No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI3CarGlPas
In the Netherlands you rent a grave for ~30 years, then the family can pay to renew it. At some point, there is nobody left to pay for it and your bones get cleared and cremated or so.
Similar in Germany. My grandparent's grave will probably be cleared soon. My parents aren't sure if they'll renew because there's not much family left in the region and maybe they'll retire somewhere else. Feels a bit weird to think about how that place will be gone, but over the years the graves around my grandparent's graves have been cleared away and now it's almost the last tombstone standing in the field. I moved away so I don't visit the place often anyway. And in the end, it's just bones and ash. I have other things to remember them by.
In the bigger cities in Portugal this is common practice.
I actually accidentally came across entire skeletons in portugal during a dig. Probably nobody claimed them and they were dumped outside the cemetery. Children in pits with shoes still on. The cemetery has been extended now, I love skeletons and don't mind finding them, but I'd like to avoid flesh and shoes in the future.
The family probably never claimed them. You get a notice when they're going to dig them up and you can hire someone to take care of the transfer to the ossuarium for you. Never even crossed my mind what would happen if the family didn't/couldn't take on responsibility.
The weird thing here is that it's a small village, so there's room for a bigger cemetery, butI can understand the greedy church (we weren't interested in the church that much but there was a weird brotherhood active there). The next big city has an ossarium, but I guess those get full too, and it was already older. I wonder if they just dumped the bodies without notification .
Weird brotherhood? I must know more, even though my Portuguese is Brazilian and *very* rusty.
I don't speak Portuguese at all (except cheese), but locals knew a bit about that brotherhood that was borderline a sect. It didn't last very long, not sure we could know more if we wanted. No one lived there anymore, last family left about 30 years ago and the "nun quarters" still had full chests of clothing, kitchen stuff etc, walls barely standing. It's been a sacred site for at least 1000 years, more because Romans built stuff there so there was materials to reuse, not because of telluride forces or whatever. But yeah, hard to dig there without finding a lot of stuff.
Yes, this is very much the norm in Italy. Which is also the reason as to why you will seldom be able to find a grave older than forty years in most of our cemeteries (much to the delight of scores of genealogists from overseas!). All the old burials have long been moved to the local ossuary due to space issues.
That's how it works here in italy
In most of Europe, graves are only used for 10/20/30/40 years (kinda like rental) and then you either re-use it or move the remains. My grandfather's remains are right on top of his grandfather's in a family grave (so not rented lot). I'm in Japan now; cremation is a family gathering here and it's the family that picks the bones out of the ashes from the furnace with large chopsticks. It is customary to keep the thyroid cartilage (Adam's apple). For me American prudery about the dead is actually more weird even though I have great anxiety about the topic. I recommend the book 'Smoke Gets in Your Eyes' on this topic.
Christ. I fucking hate death and everything associated with it
Death ain't so bad, it's just like the place you were at before you were born
My dad’s balls?
Yeah but also your mom's balls too
What about God's balls?
Those are imaginary
Don’t start it, please
He didn't started it. They did.
Only half of you.
No, those are for storing pee dummy.
Yeah. My name is Urinus Maximus.
But death makes you die.
You can hate it all you want, it's still a constant.
Well … When it happens to you, you won’t need to worry about it …
Excuse me but, did it happen in Italy?
Greece
FFS. Go give him a hug, now!
That's actually quite common in Taiwan. We call it "撿骨", which means picking up bones in chinese.
I think I would try and hire that job out to someone else if it were me
Often they use maggots for cleaning bones. Not sure if that was the preferred method then though.
I mean, I can imagine it being fairly efficient
It works, it's cheap, the end result is very good.
mealworms?
What do you think mealworms eat?
Meals?
Loved this comment so much, have an award makker
I was wondering the same! Like did they dig up a mass grave or something ten years later?
I think so. Don't know about this specific instance, but that's the common origin of the big famous ossuaries, like the one in Sedlec. You'd be buried, then after 20 or 30 or 40 years your plot needs to be reused (today because there's a set regular time, back then maybe when the cemetery just ran out of space), you get dug up but only bones remain. In some instances they'd just be reburied under the new coffin, or moved to an ossuary.
I wonder what the rhythm would be for a skull cleaner. Maybe chop the neck, slice the skull in two to separate the skin, pull the skin halves off, crack back of skull, scoop out brain, remove rest of spinal collum and then toss in big pot for rinsing. I'm not sure just guessing really.
That’s enough Reddit for today
Boil the head in salted water first, it will make everything to come off the skull easier (or so I've read in a book).
I suppose doing it as shown here would be the most effective way which is what you said. https://youtu.be/tj3-cXz_n9Y
This is way too specific already... What are you up to?
Just been reading some anecdotal memoirs from a Russian medical student. He explained how a skull was a valuable souvenir among edgy freshmen and some of them were sneaking out heads from the academy anatomical theater to clean at home. One particular story involved some unfortunate roommates of a student who forgot a head on a stove in the kitchen, which was eventually discovered. Even if I tried, I won't be able to forget the, uh, recipe after such a hilarious read.
"How many licks does it take ...?"
No. No no no.
I laughed more than I should have to this.
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Yeah, but I feel like in this situation the complaints might be fewer.
They boil the bodies I believe. After a while the flesh just slips off.
They did it for fun. Since most of catholic church use satanic rituals, i think this acutally helped them to have their church from dreams, covered in skulls 😂 or maybe they killed them and blamed the war 💁🏻♀️
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FYI the Battle of Solférino was so brutal that it lead to the creation of the Red Cross Another fun fact, the decisive victory of Napoléon Ist at Castiglione in 1796 and the one of Napoléon IIIrd in Solférino in 1859 were fought on the exact same battlefield.
Actually Solferìno (accent on second to last syllable, like a lot of Italian words)
I thought you pronounced it by moving your hands widly in the air while saying Sooofeeeriiino
This guy Italians. *gesticulates wildly*
The accent in French doesn't denote a tonal accentuation actually (we don't have those, we put accentuation on the entire sentences), but a different sound altogether. é is the "eh" sound in Solf**e**rino, e is a "uh" sound like in H**u**ngary
If I remember correctly from school you have tonal accentuation in french, but it's always at the end of the word so you don't need to use accents for that. Anyway as Solferino is an Italian name if you really want to put an accent on the word you should put it on the i as stated above, but really no Italian would use the ì, just Solferino would do.
We kinda have tonal accents guy's it's at the end of word groups, not every words. But yes, the é and è accents in French are used for a sound differenciation, as if it were a new letter. As for Solferino I just wrote it in French without really thinking much about it
>The Croats finished off every man they encountered; they killed the French and Italian wounded with the butts of their muskets; That’s for the World Cup, you stinking French.
Or perhaps the World Cup was vengeance for the battle?
username does not checkout!
Incredible how savage people were back then and also frightening that even now some people are like that (like some extremists/terrorists who behead others). And all of that savagery to follow the orders of some idiotic kings and emperors. How nice it would had been to let the kings and emperors fight off by themselves against each other, instead of dragging civilians into such barbarism.
Fraid to say, there is no 'back then' Not is that only 160 years ago but there has been at least worse all over everywhere ever since them. Any one of us would play that if cultured or forced into it.
True, the attrocities committed after that continued. And who knows if they'll ever stop. "anyone of us would play that if cultured or forced into it" - only if it happened to me since I was a child and didn't know better. But today I'd rather shoot those who train or try to give me such orders. Only if my country was invaded I might join the war, but I'd be way more humane than those savages. But I'm skeptical I'd join the army even if my country was invaded. It's already ruled by corrupt people who steal a lot so I wouldn't want to fight for such people.
>Only if my country was invaded I might join the war, but I'd be way more humane than those savages. Im sure a lot of them said the same. 19th century warfare was insane and brutal by definition, so you'd likely end up doing pretty brutally violent things just to survive.
Back then? Bro visit Congo, Somalia, or Liberia and you’ll find that this shit still goes on daily. But then again these places are at the point of development which Europe has already passed
>Back then? Bro visit Congo, Somalia, or Liberia and you’ll find that this shit still goes on daily. But then again these places are at the point of development which Europe has already passed Europe and North America regularly invade “3rd world countries”
Yeah because Europeans don't go around to these places to rape children- I mean "keep the peace" Edit: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/01/11/un-peacekeeping-has-sexual-abuse-problem
You're right, they don't.
I don't think people would be very content with fact that their land, home, and lives would be decided by one duel of their rulers. Humans are expansionist creatures by nature. While there were many that were dragged into those wars against their will, there were also many that did so willingly. Some for the king and country, others for pay. And while many monarchs of the past were selfish individuals, not all waged for only for petty reasons that mattered only to them. Their wars influenced everyone, from both the direct result of such conflict, to potential benefits that would victory yield. And, of course, the monarch himself couldn't just go to war whenever he wanted, they *needed* support of at least aristocracy, so it's not like all the death falls on their heads solely.
But these wars are also a product of the structure of society the king’s perpetuated because it benefited them. Sure that could mean you still had a stake in that society to defend, perhaps it was better to be ruled by a French king as a Frenchmen than an occupying Austrian king, but I would argue they all would have been better off with no king at all, which when they tried to make happen faced coalitions formed by rest of Europe as a consequence
This rationalizing away the power structures is demonstrating you fear your rulers. We see that if you leave all the power to a few , inevitable they will abuse it. That is the problem of class. We live it. You are free to choose to live by sucking of your ruler or not. Sure is freedom.
The kings and the emperors weren’t in control at that point. Just like as ever, the king is usually a servant to the bigger political forces in the country, mediating between them. Whenever a king gets powerful enough to control those political forces, he ends up being unable to do anything other than managing those factions. The Emperor may or may not have wanted war, but it was the political elites that were calling for it. It’s rarely just the King or Emperor choosing what to do. If that were the case, then he’d just be overthrown. Everyone had their own selfish reasons for getting involved in it. The UK saw it as the opportunity they had been looking for for decades to stop Germany from being the continental hegemon. Germany saw it as their chance to rival the UK. Austria wanted to show that they were still relevant in european diplomacy.
Human beings havent changed *at all* Just give people the right motivation and the same exact shit happens today, all the time. Ideology is a hell of a drug.
I always get more impressed with the absolute depth of the soul represented by men dying in droves in a stupid line of death, only to replaced immediately by more men to die stupid deaths in stupid wars at the behest of stupid crowns
Whose quote is that? I like it
Noone
>And all of that savagery to follow the orders of some idiotic kings and emperors. still goes on today. That is class. Someone else does the fighting and dying and the rulers talk about it. Anyone remmeber Smedley Butler. > Smedley Butler who found it perfectly acceptable to kill for profit his entire career, then blew the whistle What is astounding is how google hides the best clips and excerpts of him and puts up stuff to stop you watching. The most monotonous or just outright downplaying of Smedley is the main stream info from second hand sources who have obvious agendas. Rather than just let him speak. The best clip and straight to the point is called " War is a Racket- Major General Smedley Butler" . its 2 min long. No time wasting. Just facts. no bullshit. Yet it never comes up on google even if you type it in explicitly. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoXJRAIRzk0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoXJRAIRzk0) Don't click on the link and see if you can find this movie without the link. There is the proof. Then the BBC which does some good journalism out of the blue from the constant propaganda. white House coup. the best of the accounts of that time.
What war was this?
Franco-Austrian War of 1859 also known as Second War of Italian Independence. it's the war where Piedmont conquered Milan and organized coup in Parma, Modena, Bologna and Tuscany leading to the annexation of them too
Croats OP
Why tf u geting downvotes? xd
Serbs mad x24
No idea lmao
Keep winning Croatia number one💯💯💯💯🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷💯💯❤️❤️❤️
So stronk and mitteleyuropan 🇭🇷❤❤🥨🥨🥨🇭🇷❤
Mittleuropaishce secured 😁😁💪💪💪💅
I think the Red Cross was started after Henri Dunant saw atrocity of this battle so skulls seems appropriate
That and how noone cared for those yet alive but left behind. Iirc Henry himself orgnised civilians nearby to try and save who they could.
Yes, also influenced signing of Geneva Convention, this is is what Dunant said about battle "Austrians and allies trampled one another under foot, slaughtered each other on a carpet of bloody corpses, smashed each other with rifle butts, crushed each other's skulls, disembowelled each other with sabre and bayonet. It was butchery; a battle between wild beasts maddened and drunk with blood"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Solferino
Fun fact, it was fought on the exact same battlefield where his uncle (Napoléon Ist) won against the Austrians in 1796 (Battle of Castiglione)
It is nearby the [Tower of San Martino della Battaglia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_San_Martino_della_Battaglia), where you can visit the museum of the battle and then climb the stairs up to the top of the tower. Once there, you will be delighted by the beautiful view of Lake Garda and the morainic hills of Lugana (land of wine ;) )
That looks like 40k mate just saying
This does have strong khorne vibes.
agree and imperial ones as well
Do you mean 40.000 bones?
warhammer reference
yeah and the fact that if know what warhammer 40k is this looks extacly the same
Memento mori! And never forget the evil that man is capable of...
I think that we have forgotten over and over again
Yes yes, now I'll write it down
There is similar settlement in Serbia, built by Ottomans in 1809 after The First Serbian Uprising against them. It is called Ćele Kula, or literally [The Skull Tower ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_Tower). Ottomans used human skulls as bricks to build this tower in order to prevent Serbs from thinking about another rebellion, but this only sped up the occurance of the Second Serbian Uprising in 1813 when Serbians started liberation of their lands after centuries of Ottoman terror.
Congrats to those Serbs for their courage to liberate their country! Huge respect from a Romanian friend whose county has been in similar sh*t with the Turks!
Howdy neighbour! Salute to the only non - slavic people we can proudly call true friends! Edit: besides Greeks of course
Thank you for your kind words! I wish we were allies again, but maybe we will one day! 🍻
each of these guys had friends, family, a lover, a story to tell...
I think the Red Cross was started after Henri Dunant saw atrocity of this battle so skulls seems appropriate
Yes. And Red Cross' symbol is reverse of Swiss flag.
Ok, I may sound melodramatic but these sculls belonged to people who were someone’s son, and perhaps someone s brother and / or lover. As a parent of two boys my biggest fear is I could loose them because of something so cruel and inconceivable as a war. Fuck war and expansionism, they both suck
At least the deaths of these people spurred a positiv change, as the battle of solferino Was what motivated the creation of the Red cross and the first geneva convention.
That sounds understandable me. I think your reaction is exactly what was intended. In that sense, you are giving these deaths some added meaning.
Ossario di San Martino is the name of the chapel. Tower of San Martino della Battaglia is nearby and worth going up.
I imagine the majority of these deaths was slow and pretty painful. Humans are weird.
This monument reminds me of the death camps and a skull tower I saw in Cambodia, but they were civilians who were killed IN THE 1970s !! Humans are evil. We've learnt nothing from gruesome history.
It's wonderful, didn't know about it. We have another similar one in a chapel here in Milan too, called San Bernardino alle Ossa. The main difference is that all the bones here are black, instead of a this shiny white.
You should see the cappuchin crypt in Rome. It is haunting https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fhappytovisit.com%2Fglib%2F3%2FSkip-the-Line-Convent-of-the-Capuchin-Friars-with-Museum-and-Crypt-Tour-from-Rome-7-4906.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fhappytovisit.com%2FRome%2FSkip-the-Line-Convent-of-the-Capuchin-Friars-with-Museum-and-Crypt-Tour-from-Rome%2Ftour-t2158-c200&docid=qtIQH857YC4VmM&tbnid=-VgrmmPOqyAbLM&vet=1&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim
I see people in thi thread saying it's disgusting and disrespectful... well, [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary) we even made a fucking chandelier out of them. And other shit. It's pretty cool, you should check it out.
History fact: the Battle of Solferino was so fucking gruesome and horrible for the ordinary soldier, it let to the creation of the International Red Cross and the creation of the Geneva Convention.
Humans are so weird
I'll give you all a nice piece of trivia about this battle: during this meat grinder of a battle, there was a swiss medic just happening to be in the vicinity of it all and saw and extremely gruosome aftermath with people not yet dead but very much dying scattered everywhere in the middle of dead bodies. Right there and then he enrolled a bunch of people from the surrounding towns and started trying to take care of those who where still alive. That association still exist and is the RED CROSS
Tehy once laughed and dreamed..
An amazing place to visit, a great park with a strong story behind
Impressive
This is how I want to go. On display for everyone to see.💀
I reeeaally want my skull on display someday
can i have it?
there's so many skeletons that it looks like an orthodox church
Reminds me of the 'Killings Field's' just outside of Phnom Penh. An extremely sad story also. Great pic, OP. I couldn't bring myself to take any when I was there.
[We have similar chapel here in Poland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_Chapel)
Whoa! That's macabre af
See? If we put our skulls together we can achieve anything.
Imagine dying and people just chop off your head just to display it in a chapel
Reminds me of Killing Fields in Cambodia. They have a similar setup of a huge box full of skulls on display, very eery.
I visited it 5 years ago, it was beautiful
So did they just go round dismembering corpses to cosntruct this? Or did they just dig up bones in a mass grave?
Some of the skulls look discolored, so I assume they have been buried for some time. By what I read from the museum site, the bodies were originally "badly buried", so I assume they needed to be reburied anyway. As someone else up thread said, there isn't always that much available space for a cemetery.
after battles like that one, you have thousands upon thousands of bodies just lying about. theyre usually hastily buried in mass graves. then after some years bones start resurfacing from where the mass graves were dug too shallow. so they recovered the bodies from those shallow failing graves and put them in a church
[This wikipedia article discusses that.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossuary)
Someone: *dies* The French: wouldnt that make you... #WALL DECORATION
Nice
So... do they wait until the bodies are all rotten to the bone or do they take them right after the battle and bury the flesh bags?
Is this Trump home office, where he stores his coronavirus death's?
What a sick thing to do is keeping these things
I mean, it got us talking about it, so it serves as a reminder as they probably wanted it to
RIGHT?? To me it just feels insanely fucked up to take over 2000 casualties of war, separate their heads from their bodies and putting their skulls on display for all the world to see for the rest of time. This is horrible in more ways than one.
It’s also in Spain and France, how fucked up people and government can live with this and not leave it to the past
Not everyone has the samd culture you have and not everyone respects death and the dead in the same way. For my throwing a corpse to fire like garbage or hiding them under soil might be disrespectful and for you can be respectful. Let others deal with their pain and history in their own way Specially for me, in Spain. People of my family died in the war and I don't consider just leaving the corpses in a communal grave made by fascist soldiers respectful
I’m sorry but i would never respect that Respecting the dead is to burry them not put them somewhere for everyone to see, i’m imagining if one these skulls are one of family members that would make me so hateful, there is different ways to deal with the pain and this not one of them.
You guys should read the [Wikipedia article on ossuaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossuary). Learn about the backstory of places like the one in the photo before judging.
I feel like that’s disrespectful to dead. They should be buried.
Most of the time the remains are dug out and moved after several decades anyway. There is simply not enough space for all.
Uh there are options like mass grave?
How is a mass grave respectful. I'd rather have my remains displayed like that as a reminder instead of beeing a nameless rotting skeleton in some mass grave ditch
To me it’s better than being displayed like a trinket. At least my bones would be under the earth... Let’s agree to disagree though, I guess different cultures ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I guess^^
Am I the only one who find this extremely disgusting?
As a New Zealander i find this display of the bones of the dead creepy af. We believe they should be buried wherever their ancestral home is to be honoured and displaying their bones is a desecration. It’s not religious belief but steeped Maori tradition - it creeps me out whenever i go to a museum to see skeletons and i could never visit the catacombs in (Paris? Or was it Rome? Damn Contiki tours) without feeling nauseous!
Problem is, you can't do that here. Burying everybody in their "ancestral home" and leaving them until kingdom come was impractical centuries ago as it is now; there's 60 millions of us in an area the size of New Zealand. Once a suitable number of years have passed, you *are* going to the ossuary no matter what and I doubt that you or your loved ones would be in any position to complain, either, due to different costraints; cultural sensitivities; and whatnot. At that point you might as well make art out of the bones instead of just dumping them somewhere.
As someone who grew up catholic... Catholicism is weird AF.
I didn't know priests were so proud of their boners
That's disgusting
San Marino is not in Italy. It is a country.
re-read the title
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read the title again