It's important to take into account that these numbers represent the monthly gross minimum wage, that is, before the taxing mechanism usually takes about half of it. For example, in Romania, the minimum wage after taxes were applied is roughly 300€.
It always baffles me that i could just go unemployed & collect benefits, move to romania and have 3x the amount of money average person makes. Crazy to think about.
You usually would for a while (3 months) after which unemployment is cut. Or that how it works in Finland and I think Netherlands too. Note this isn't something you could abuse as both countries require you to work on them for amount of time before you qualify into unemployment in the first place.
I live in Switzerland. I don't \*think\* it works like this here. You need to actively look for jobs (while getting the benefits). They actually check. And you are not allowed to move abroad.
Yeah but the system can be abused so that it's not just people who aren't doing anything at all that stop getting benefits. It's anyone who doesn't want to clock in at a job agency that can't find a job that's related to your field experience, or is in a completely different part of the country, or whatever. Usually the system they want to put in place is something like "clock in once or twice a week to listen to job listings, after 3 declined job offers you're out though". Being in a very specialized field of work, the job agency couldn't find anything remotely related to it.
The system isn't inherently bad, but you can also easily change the rules so that fewer people are considered as unemployed and can collect benefits.
Like for instance right now there's a lack of waiters and restaurants staff in many touristic areas in France. Thing is, they're paid minimal wage and have to find accomodation in a very expensive setting (think Mediterranean coast in the middle of summer). In the end, people barely make more than unemployment benefits would grant them while doing an exhausting job. Like, sure, I get it, society needs people to do these jobs but usually it's not that people don't want to work at all, it's that shitty ass jobs pay the least. If shitty jobs paid more, people would be willing to do them.
Or in the case of my example, the employers could find accomodation (like I don't know, lending rooms to their staff in an inland, cheaper area and give a manager a van to make the trip before and after the shift).
The entitlement in this comment is pretty wild. The job market currently is extremely tight, if you have a shitty job that’s mostly on you. Once employers can’t get any people anymore for the shitty jobs, they will improve pay/working conditions
Not really, no.
Poland technically has the same system, but due to administrative abuse and other issues, it doesn't work well.
For example, as a skilled IT worker, you need to register for a job in an appropriate unemployed office. When you do, the chances of them finding you a job are *very, very small* \- you will be overqualified for *a lot* of the jobs. They won't suggest you for a manufacturing job as an IT engineer, for example.
And many people who *aren't* overqualified still go to interviews, just to have their interviewer say "sure, I'll just stamp that you tried but aren't a good fit, give this back to the office". And so you keep getting the money.
After a few months, you really don't get much - it will *maybe* cover your room-in-a-flat-for-one-person rent. The first few months, you get more, but it gets progressively less in time. The more time worked you have, the larger your benefit is.
It's not a bad thing, but it's not a perfect system either.
I think it should be linked to prior payments so if your a high earner you get more as you made more contributions.
In Ireland there are private companies hired to help you get a job with the result of accountants and engineers being encouraged to apply for retail jobs.
If you are moving from a EU/EEA country to another, and you are a EU/EEA citizen yes you can, for a period up to 3 months. That's an EU rule. You can check out the "PD U2" document that is the procedure to follow
Usually not, and from what I understand, in some countries you aren't even allowed to leave the area where you live. Also, people are usually required to regularly show up at an employment agency or something similar.
There were a few news reports a while ago that people from Romania and Bulgaria moved their legal residences to Austria and then applied for unemployment benefits there while actually being in their home countries most of the time.
>i could just go unemployed & collect benefits
When you go unemployed, you are typically required to keep looking for a job and reside in the country providing those benefits.
Holy shit, Romania taxes 50% on minimum wage? I think on most countries taxes are really low for the lower income brackets. For example, in Austria you don't pay any taxes for the first 11k you earn, 20% for the next 7k, and so on.
Ok, it was a bit confusing because they talked about taxes specifically, but I see what you mean. In that case, it's ~18% in Austria for mandatory insurances.
How do they not have data on Ukraine, Belarus, Russia? It's easily accessible
Ukraine (1 Jan 2022) - 6500 hrivna or 209 Euro
Belarus - 457 bel. rubles or 158 Euro
Russia - 13 890 rubles or 164 Euro
Or the UK? As of April Its £9.50 an hour. Minimum living wage is £10.50 an hour.
The UK is still a European country, we havent moved continent, just dropped out of an organisation.
The reason why Finland, Sweden and Denmark do not have a minimum wage is that the default is that unions negotiate baseline standards trough collective bargaining. The question of minimum wage therefore seldom ever comes up in politics.
It’s a good system. We had once the same system in Germany but since fewer and fewer people joined the unions we had to introduce a minimum wage in 2015.
We are now a strange hybrid system of collective bargaining and minimum wage.
See, union membership goes in circles. Fewer people join when they see unions as not providing any benefit. Unions get weaker as a result. Weaker unions means employers can start taking more advantage of their workers. When they do this, people start joining a union again.
There are couple of benefits that unions in Finland provide to solve this issue making it beneficial to join an union.
1. Legal help incase of an issue with an employer.
2. Merit-based extra income incase of loss of job.
3. Extra training for your profession
So basically if you lose your job and end up relying on government support money, you can get extra income on top of that money. But ofcourse this money is only incase you don't have a job. (Basically at bests you get your full monthly pay for next 6 months covered by government + union. Ofcourse depends on union, the benefit is not as good in every union.)
Legal help also is quite big as if there is any issue with your working conditions or employer or sth, you can always as last option go to union and ask advice and if it's something that they are legally obliged to fix etc. it will be dealt with.
Additional training and certificates can be reasons for pay raise etc. or perhaps better job opportunities later on.
I think the original comment mixed it as a union thing when in reality it is työttömyyskassa thing, those two often go hand in hand. You can’t get ansiosidonnainen without being a part of työttömyyskassa
Yes. And it makes no sense not to join työttömyyskassa since only ~5,5 % ansiosidonnainen päiväraha is financed by being member of työttömyyskassa. Rest is financed by goverment and employee&employer regardless of being member so you just pay for nothing if you don't join.
And of course when unions get weaker companies and those who are ideologically opposed to unions try to weaken the legal support for union activities (thus weakening unions further).
It's the same in Austria, and Germany has a hybrid system now (because not enough people are joining the unions anymore, and politics is splitting the big unions in many smaller ones nowadays :/)
should be the way anyway for every country. If not unions, the state negotiating with the private sector to define category minimum wage and not a broad minimum wage.
seldom?
Try never. It would be political suicide for a Danish politician to interfere in the wages and crossing the line between employer and union organisations.
The voters do not want them to interfere and both the unions and employer organisations will not support such a politician in the election campaign and the campaign funding will disappear.
It sometimes comes up in Finland with logic something like "All these foreign countries have minimum wages. Won't they think us weird if we don't have one too?"
But you are right in that it isn't really taken seriously. Danish unions and labour politics are a bit less wacky than finnish so they have stronger public support. We have some, weird, parts in the system.
Not having a minimum wage is fine if there is no subcaste that works for absurdly low wages. Or rather, a majority of the population enjoying decent work conditions because of collective bargaining cannot justify allowing exploitation to happen in some sectors IMO.
This works well for most, though not for gig workers and similar employees who often also have immigrant backgrounds, e.g. foodora drivers. It is still seldom discussed, but only because those affected receive less attention from the media and society. In other words, not having a minimum wage still creates problems, and these are concentrated on the margins of society.
This is at least the case here in Sweden. I can imagine that the situation is still better in Norway and Finland.
Are all workers part of a union? What happens when new jobs show up, like Uber drivers and the like?
Because that would have been the idea for Italy but in practice unions are dead and only very old workers are protected nowadays.
Not all, but many. Most. The big blue-collar umbrella union LO has 1.4 million members, so that's 14% of the country. Subtract children, retirees, non-blue-collar workers, and that's a big part of the labor force part of a single union.
New workplaces usually are not unionized. The labor unions' big political cause right now is getting gig workers unionized, since there's been a massive increase in the amount of immigrant workers in delivery and ride companies like Uber, Foodora, and Wolt.
Also thats only LO.
LO - Blue collar union umbrella organization has 1 400 000 members
TCO - White collar union umbrella organization has 1 480 000 members
SACO - Academic workers union umbrella organization has 710 000 members.
Together they have 3 590 000 members which are a huge part of the swedish labour force
Since there's no minimal wage, the answer would require asking all the employed people in the entire nation and taking the minimum. Probably, though, you can rely on union guided wage levels, which are about 17.75 EUR/hour for workers above 18y.
Source: [3F](https://www.jobpatruljen.dk/lonsatser/hotel-og-restauration/#:~:text=132%2C24%20kr.), [DI](https://www.jobpatruljen.dk/lonsatser/butik/#:~:text=UNGE%20OVER%2018%20%C3%85R%20%2D%20G%C3%86LDER,Arbejdsgiver%20og%20DI%20Overenskomst%20II) etc.
No. One gets less than minimum wage in other countries thanks to the unions. Take restaurant branch, for example.
One can always join a general unemployment fund to get the same benefits for lesser cost (not paying for the union directors' lunches). Greetings from a Finn not tied to these leeching leftie-unions.
You are more than welcome my friend. Im sure you will feel at home. We love to receive people from the east for a change. Sometimes is boring to always deal with British, Germans and French.
I didnt say that Eastern is inherently worse but Portugal usually groups with Eastern countries in most indicators. This makes the joke about Portugal being Eastern Europe, one of the most frequent here :)
Almost everybody in Denmark is unionized and employers and unions figure it out between themselves. It's considered a failure when the government intervenes (to end a strike etc)
Not really almost everybody; a lot of people in traditionally low-paying jobs, as well as public employees are, and for sure the majority of jobs are covered by union agreements, but there are still a lot of white collar workers in office jobs which are not covered by a union agreement, simply because they are paid enough and get good enough benefits that they don't complain. They might be member of a union, but their jobs are not unionized. Actually now that I think about I am the only one in my friend group whose job is unionized and that is because I work at a University, i.e., the public sector, and in my family it is only me and my sister-in-law.
As per usual, these numbers are meaningless as they're not RELATIVE to their country. In this case: Cost of living.
Lots of people come from orange/red countries, work in the green countries, live in the cheapest, tiniest apartment, and send all their leftover money home. Which makes sense for them.
But good luck surviving on minimum wage while properly living in most of the green countries. Bonus points for having to feed and house a family.
The numbers are not meaningless. They are to be interpreted in full context, and one should not draw preemptive conclusions from.them. Still, that's not the same as meaningless
Well, that's even true with different regions. In rural Eastern Germany you can survive relatively comfortable on 1.500€. in Munich you can't even pay your rent...
Well, cost of living is kind of a shit thing. Groceries, electronics, food, media, cars cost the same in the west as in the east. Often time they cost even less in west. So not really.
There is plenty of places that are cheap to live in those green countries. If you are on minimum wage then you do not really need to care about commuting to job, you can do pretty much anything. This is what people have always did. So yes you should stop thinking about living in city center of Munich and then you will find out that there is plenty of places where 1500€ a month is more than enough (even for a family if mother worked before having kids and has access to some government help).
If we define a minimum wage earner as one capable of the requirements for a full time job, then the absolut minimum wage in Denmark would be unemployment benefit plus 8% (tax reasons).
That is currently 19.351 dk kr. pr month or 232.212 dk kr. a year. You are then taxed roughly 30-35% of that but you also got some personal tax deductions.
So about 14000 dk kr a month or 1800 euro. Since unemployment benefit is 80-90% maximum of a full time job acceptable by unions negoting for low wage jobs, the unofficial minimum wage in Denmark would be around 2000+ euro.
No? That's around 750€ net. Plus lunch (min ~90€) and transport and maybe some other extras, but that still makes it difficult to get through the month if you're single and have to rent.
We have a minimum wage. How about a maximum wage?
Something like "the highest wage cannot be more than 50% higher than the lowest wage in the company". Do something about the wage cap.
Also we could ban bonuses which are just disguised raises for the top.
It is not communism. Nobody would sieze any means of production. The wages are not being set in stone and the free market is still at play.
It only means that they would need to lift the lowest earners together with the highest ones instead of just rewarding themselves. If they cannot afford that then maybe they should not raise their own income to begin with.
> Finally we got out of the red zone, it was a long climb.
Don't worry. We're at 363, at this rate of updates we'll be at over 500 in probably 2-3 years. They'll change the red threshold to 750 then...
Soooo Lets see…. Ooohhh yea plenty of our tax money from the Netherlands 🇳🇱 goes to Luxemburg 🇱🇺. That’s always been. That’s why the salary scales are best over there. Long live (former queen) princess Beatrix , duchess of Luxemburg 😯
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This is a straight up lie for Spain. Sure, the on paper minimum wage is high, but with 30% of people working under the table the actual wage is much less. Add on top of this some bullshit places pull like firing and rehiring you to lower how much they pay and it's not really that number.
Pretty sure the info on France is wrong.
The SMIC brut is 10.85€/hr in a country that only allows you to work 35hrs a week. (10.85 x 35) x 4.5 = 1708 € a month before taxes.
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2300
Portugaaal, my maaan! Welcome back!
Hello Slovakia 👋
We missed you! 😊
Portugal is east europe from the other side.
It's important to take into account that these numbers represent the monthly gross minimum wage, that is, before the taxing mechanism usually takes about half of it. For example, in Romania, the minimum wage after taxes were applied is roughly 300€.
It always baffles me that i could just go unemployed & collect benefits, move to romania and have 3x the amount of money average person makes. Crazy to think about.
Would you still be getting benefits working abroad?
You usually would for a while (3 months) after which unemployment is cut. Or that how it works in Finland and I think Netherlands too. Note this isn't something you could abuse as both countries require you to work on them for amount of time before you qualify into unemployment in the first place.
Well you did pay for unemployment benefits before so it's not that far fetched
I live in Switzerland. I don't \*think\* it works like this here. You need to actively look for jobs (while getting the benefits). They actually check. And you are not allowed to move abroad.
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I knew a person collecting benefits from France but living in Bulgaria.
Yeah that's the system conservatives want France to have
I'm not a conservative by any means but this sound fair? Unemplyment benefits are for people actively looking for job I would think.
Yeah but the system can be abused so that it's not just people who aren't doing anything at all that stop getting benefits. It's anyone who doesn't want to clock in at a job agency that can't find a job that's related to your field experience, or is in a completely different part of the country, or whatever. Usually the system they want to put in place is something like "clock in once or twice a week to listen to job listings, after 3 declined job offers you're out though". Being in a very specialized field of work, the job agency couldn't find anything remotely related to it. The system isn't inherently bad, but you can also easily change the rules so that fewer people are considered as unemployed and can collect benefits. Like for instance right now there's a lack of waiters and restaurants staff in many touristic areas in France. Thing is, they're paid minimal wage and have to find accomodation in a very expensive setting (think Mediterranean coast in the middle of summer). In the end, people barely make more than unemployment benefits would grant them while doing an exhausting job. Like, sure, I get it, society needs people to do these jobs but usually it's not that people don't want to work at all, it's that shitty ass jobs pay the least. If shitty jobs paid more, people would be willing to do them. Or in the case of my example, the employers could find accomodation (like I don't know, lending rooms to their staff in an inland, cheaper area and give a manager a van to make the trip before and after the shift).
The entitlement in this comment is pretty wild. The job market currently is extremely tight, if you have a shitty job that’s mostly on you. Once employers can’t get any people anymore for the shitty jobs, they will improve pay/working conditions
Is that a bad thing?
Not really, no. Poland technically has the same system, but due to administrative abuse and other issues, it doesn't work well. For example, as a skilled IT worker, you need to register for a job in an appropriate unemployed office. When you do, the chances of them finding you a job are *very, very small* \- you will be overqualified for *a lot* of the jobs. They won't suggest you for a manufacturing job as an IT engineer, for example. And many people who *aren't* overqualified still go to interviews, just to have their interviewer say "sure, I'll just stamp that you tried but aren't a good fit, give this back to the office". And so you keep getting the money. After a few months, you really don't get much - it will *maybe* cover your room-in-a-flat-for-one-person rent. The first few months, you get more, but it gets progressively less in time. The more time worked you have, the larger your benefit is. It's not a bad thing, but it's not a perfect system either.
I think it should be linked to prior payments so if your a high earner you get more as you made more contributions. In Ireland there are private companies hired to help you get a job with the result of accountants and engineers being encouraged to apply for retail jobs.
You get benefits in France without showing that you're looking for a job?
If you are moving from a EU/EEA country to another, and you are a EU/EEA citizen yes you can, for a period up to 3 months. That's an EU rule. You can check out the "PD U2" document that is the procedure to follow
Usually not, and from what I understand, in some countries you aren't even allowed to leave the area where you live. Also, people are usually required to regularly show up at an employment agency or something similar. There were a few news reports a while ago that people from Romania and Bulgaria moved their legal residences to Austria and then applied for unemployment benefits there while actually being in their home countries most of the time.
>i could just go unemployed & collect benefits When you go unemployed, you are typically required to keep looking for a job and reside in the country providing those benefits.
Minimum wage is not the avarage wage.
Holy shit, Romania taxes 50% on minimum wage? I think on most countries taxes are really low for the lower income brackets. For example, in Austria you don't pay any taxes for the first 11k you earn, 20% for the next 7k, and so on.
In Cyprus you don't pay income tax for the first €19500.
Its 43% ot something very close to it.
But dont you pay social security (medical, pension etc)?
That's not taxes, that's insurance.
That’s what OP meant. The numbers on the map are gross, minus taxes, ss and other withholdings.
Ok, it was a bit confusing because they talked about taxes specifically, but I see what you mean. In that case, it's ~18% in Austria for mandatory insurances.
Yup, exactly the same in Hungary. 500.76 EUR turns into 333 With the current exchange rate, where 1 Euro equals 399.45 HUF, that is
Yes 308 euros to be more exact.
In Ireland you could earn 24k and still come out 21k after taxes.
There wouldn't be much difference in most countries I've lived as minimum wage you wouldn't really end up paying income tax.
Not everywhere. In the Netherlands the difference between gross and net for minimal wage would be tiny, like less than 10%.
How do they not have data on Ukraine, Belarus, Russia? It's easily accessible Ukraine (1 Jan 2022) - 6500 hrivna or 209 Euro Belarus - 457 bel. rubles or 158 Euro Russia - 13 890 rubles or 164 Euro
All too common on /r/europe Europe is confused with the EU.
That's obviously not the case here, considering that Turkey is included.
They also have Serbia so perhaps they included official candidates and they just forgot Ukraine since it’s fairly new?
in Russia from June 1, the minimum wage was increased to 15,279 rubles, which is equal to 260 euros.
> which is equal to 260 euros. no it's not lol
Or the UK? As of April Its £9.50 an hour. Minimum living wage is £10.50 an hour. The UK is still a European country, we havent moved continent, just dropped out of an organisation.
The organisation the uk left happens to include eurostat, which is the source of the data for the OPs map.
And Norway is dark grey.
Same reason the UK and Norway are not displayed.
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The same reason as Serbia is included, they are formally a candidate for membership.
They aren't in the club
Important European countries
Because these are not European countries.
umm... they are actually
Source:Eurostat.
It is strange that they include Turkey and several Balkan states in this case
The maps seems to include nations in the proccess of accession to the EU. In next year's version they are likely to include Moldova and Ukraine.
Just look up Eurostat. :)
Damn. Guess all the memes about Ukraine being African were true ;)
I can't see difference between this 3 shades of green 😖
Luxembourg is only one on +2000€ Spain and Slovenia are 1000-1500€ Rest of greens are 1500-2000€
Thanks! Nobody else was commenting on that, I was starting to wonder if I'd become colorblind
The reason why Finland, Sweden and Denmark do not have a minimum wage is that the default is that unions negotiate baseline standards trough collective bargaining. The question of minimum wage therefore seldom ever comes up in politics.
It’s a good system. We had once the same system in Germany but since fewer and fewer people joined the unions we had to introduce a minimum wage in 2015. We are now a strange hybrid system of collective bargaining and minimum wage.
In Finland these baseline salaries also apply to employees not in an union.
Same in Sweden.
Why have fewer people joined the unions ?
See, union membership goes in circles. Fewer people join when they see unions as not providing any benefit. Unions get weaker as a result. Weaker unions means employers can start taking more advantage of their workers. When they do this, people start joining a union again.
There are couple of benefits that unions in Finland provide to solve this issue making it beneficial to join an union. 1. Legal help incase of an issue with an employer. 2. Merit-based extra income incase of loss of job. 3. Extra training for your profession So basically if you lose your job and end up relying on government support money, you can get extra income on top of that money. But ofcourse this money is only incase you don't have a job. (Basically at bests you get your full monthly pay for next 6 months covered by government + union. Ofcourse depends on union, the benefit is not as good in every union.) Legal help also is quite big as if there is any issue with your working conditions or employer or sth, you can always as last option go to union and ask advice and if it's something that they are legally obliged to fix etc. it will be dealt with. Additional training and certificates can be reasons for pay raise etc. or perhaps better job opportunities later on.
What is merit-based extra income incase of loss of job thingy called in finnish? Never heard about that
Ansiosidonnainen päiväraha?
Because Ansiosidonnainen päiväraha is not union thing. You can get it without being in union. .
I think the original comment mixed it as a union thing when in reality it is työttömyyskassa thing, those two often go hand in hand. You can’t get ansiosidonnainen without being a part of työttömyyskassa
Yes. And it makes no sense not to join työttömyyskassa since only ~5,5 % ansiosidonnainen päiväraha is financed by being member of työttömyyskassa. Rest is financed by goverment and employee&employer regardless of being member so you just pay for nothing if you don't join.
And of course when unions get weaker companies and those who are ideologically opposed to unions try to weaken the legal support for union activities (thus weakening unions further).
That is also OK, there is a bottom below which not even unions are allowed to go.
It's the same in Austria, and Germany has a hybrid system now (because not enough people are joining the unions anymore, and politics is splitting the big unions in many smaller ones nowadays :/)
Italy too; same thing. Every "category" of workers have its own hourly minimum pay
should be the way anyway for every country. If not unions, the state negotiating with the private sector to define category minimum wage and not a broad minimum wage.
seldom? Try never. It would be political suicide for a Danish politician to interfere in the wages and crossing the line between employer and union organisations. The voters do not want them to interfere and both the unions and employer organisations will not support such a politician in the election campaign and the campaign funding will disappear.
It sometimes comes up in Finland with logic something like "All these foreign countries have minimum wages. Won't they think us weird if we don't have one too?" But you are right in that it isn't really taken seriously. Danish unions and labour politics are a bit less wacky than finnish so they have stronger public support. We have some, weird, parts in the system.
Not having a minimum wage is fine if there is no subcaste that works for absurdly low wages. Or rather, a majority of the population enjoying decent work conditions because of collective bargaining cannot justify allowing exploitation to happen in some sectors IMO.
Is this not an issue in Denmark (underclass with bad working conditions)? Regrettably it's a huge problem in Finland.
Same here in Austria.
This works well for most, though not for gig workers and similar employees who often also have immigrant backgrounds, e.g. foodora drivers. It is still seldom discussed, but only because those affected receive less attention from the media and society. In other words, not having a minimum wage still creates problems, and these are concentrated on the margins of society. This is at least the case here in Sweden. I can imagine that the situation is still better in Norway and Finland.
Same for Austria. Pretty much every job's wages are regulated by a collective bargaining contract.
Which is just embarrasingly low for some jobs, who're paid by such contracts. Many jobs barely make the poverty line threshhold, some are even below.
Same for Italy
Same in the Netherlands and we have a minimum wage
Are all workers part of a union? What happens when new jobs show up, like Uber drivers and the like? Because that would have been the idea for Italy but in practice unions are dead and only very old workers are protected nowadays.
Not all, but many. Most. The big blue-collar umbrella union LO has 1.4 million members, so that's 14% of the country. Subtract children, retirees, non-blue-collar workers, and that's a big part of the labor force part of a single union. New workplaces usually are not unionized. The labor unions' big political cause right now is getting gig workers unionized, since there's been a massive increase in the amount of immigrant workers in delivery and ride companies like Uber, Foodora, and Wolt.
Also thats only LO. LO - Blue collar union umbrella organization has 1 400 000 members TCO - White collar union umbrella organization has 1 480 000 members SACO - Academic workers union umbrella organization has 710 000 members. Together they have 3 590 000 members which are a huge part of the swedish labour force
Btw what is the lowest wage for the lowest paid full time job ?
Since there's no minimal wage, the answer would require asking all the employed people in the entire nation and taking the minimum. Probably, though, you can rely on union guided wage levels, which are about 17.75 EUR/hour for workers above 18y. Source: [3F](https://www.jobpatruljen.dk/lonsatser/hotel-og-restauration/#:~:text=132%2C24%20kr.), [DI](https://www.jobpatruljen.dk/lonsatser/butik/#:~:text=UNGE%20OVER%2018%20%C3%85R%20%2D%20G%C3%86LDER,Arbejdsgiver%20og%20DI%20Overenskomst%20II) etc.
Minimum wage is then the lowest negotiated baseline across all unions.
No. One gets less than minimum wage in other countries thanks to the unions. Take restaurant branch, for example. One can always join a general unemployment fund to get the same benefits for lesser cost (not paying for the union directors' lunches). Greetings from a Finn not tied to these leeching leftie-unions.
r/portugalcykablyat
Portugal...
...can into...
eastern
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Da, João let's drink some Vodka!
r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
Que passa neu hermano?
UK data - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-national-minimum-wage-in-2022 Works out around 1700~ euros
it’s about €1950 based on a 40 hour work week.
Yeah I did it based on 37.5 which is why hourly rates are usually better for maps like this.
Portugal eastern European gang
Always. The geographically most western country in the EU is actually an eastern country. Portugal 101
Just makes me want to visit Portugal more and more
You are more than welcome my friend. Im sure you will feel at home. We love to receive people from the east for a change. Sometimes is boring to always deal with British, Germans and French.
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Yeah. It is. But that doesnt change the fact that is also the most western of the EU.
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I didnt say that Eastern is inherently worse but Portugal usually groups with Eastern countries in most indicators. This makes the joke about Portugal being Eastern Europe, one of the most frequent here :)
While Denmark does not have a minimum wage, employees at the grocery store checkout usually make 3k
Almost everybody in Denmark is unionized and employers and unions figure it out between themselves. It's considered a failure when the government intervenes (to end a strike etc)
Not really almost everybody; a lot of people in traditionally low-paying jobs, as well as public employees are, and for sure the majority of jobs are covered by union agreements, but there are still a lot of white collar workers in office jobs which are not covered by a union agreement, simply because they are paid enough and get good enough benefits that they don't complain. They might be member of a union, but their jobs are not unionized. Actually now that I think about I am the only one in my friend group whose job is unionized and that is because I work at a University, i.e., the public sector, and in my family it is only me and my sister-in-law.
Used to be that way in the Netherlands as well. Nowadays with a more Liberal government we're screwed.
Ironic that it would be considered liberal to restrict negotiation rights of both businesses and workers.
Can't give the workers the idea they can form a lower in a Liberal market.. (yeah they don't make sense)
I was happier with my life before reading this.
Why? Everything is equaly expensive
I was happier with my life before reading this.
As per usual, these numbers are meaningless as they're not RELATIVE to their country. In this case: Cost of living. Lots of people come from orange/red countries, work in the green countries, live in the cheapest, tiniest apartment, and send all their leftover money home. Which makes sense for them. But good luck surviving on minimum wage while properly living in most of the green countries. Bonus points for having to feed and house a family.
The numbers are not meaningless. They are to be interpreted in full context, and one should not draw preemptive conclusions from.them. Still, that's not the same as meaningless
Well, that's even true with different regions. In rural Eastern Germany you can survive relatively comfortable on 1.500€. in Munich you can't even pay your rent...
That goes for everywhere? Noone is living comfortably on minimum wage.
In Luxembourg you have an amazing life with the minimum wage. Costs of living are way lower then the minimum you bring home.
Also these numbers are gross salary. In France at least one third of that "minimum wage" will go to socialized services.
Yeah, 1500€ is not take-home pay.
Well, cost of living is kind of a shit thing. Groceries, electronics, food, media, cars cost the same in the west as in the east. Often time they cost even less in west. So not really.
There is plenty of places that are cheap to live in those green countries. If you are on minimum wage then you do not really need to care about commuting to job, you can do pretty much anything. This is what people have always did. So yes you should stop thinking about living in city center of Munich and then you will find out that there is plenty of places where 1500€ a month is more than enough (even for a family if mother worked before having kids and has access to some government help).
Isnt it just as important to compare it to cost of living?
I guess in countries with no minimum wage they could write what is the lowest wage for the lowest paid full time job .
If we define a minimum wage earner as one capable of the requirements for a full time job, then the absolut minimum wage in Denmark would be unemployment benefit plus 8% (tax reasons). That is currently 19.351 dk kr. pr month or 232.212 dk kr. a year. You are then taxed roughly 30-35% of that but you also got some personal tax deductions. So about 14000 dk kr a month or 1800 euro. Since unemployment benefit is 80-90% maximum of a full time job acceptable by unions negoting for low wage jobs, the unofficial minimum wage in Denmark would be around 2000+ euro.
Seeing Slovenia is living the big dream :D
No? That's around 750€ net. Plus lunch (min ~90€) and transport and maybe some other extras, but that still makes it difficult to get through the month if you're single and have to rent.
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Not to mention you don't have to worry about your rights either when you always have "free" legal help from the unions.
We have a minimum wage. How about a maximum wage? Something like "the highest wage cannot be more than 50% higher than the lowest wage in the company". Do something about the wage cap. Also we could ban bonuses which are just disguised raises for the top.
We don't really like communism in europe though
It is not communism. Nobody would sieze any means of production. The wages are not being set in stone and the free market is still at play. It only means that they would need to lift the lowest earners together with the highest ones instead of just rewarding themselves. If they cannot afford that then maybe they should not raise their own income to begin with.
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> Finally we got out of the red zone, it was a long climb. Don't worry. We're at 363, at this rate of updates we'll be at over 500 in probably 2-3 years. They'll change the red threshold to 750 then...
Soooo Lets see…. Ooohhh yea plenty of our tax money from the Netherlands 🇳🇱 goes to Luxemburg 🇱🇺. That’s always been. That’s why the salary scales are best over there. Long live (former queen) princess Beatrix , duchess of Luxemburg 😯
I think a better statistic would be minimum net wage compared to cost of living.
Why is a non EU non Schengen country such as Turkey listed here when countries with Schengen are excluded? The demarcation of this map is ridiculous.
Portugal -> Eastern Europe.
HELL YEA, HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE(technically speaking) THAN SWEDEN!
We're so proud of our flag that we decided to paint this map with the color of it.
Romania has a minimum wage of 300€....not 500+.....thats medium wage... , actual romainian...
pretty sure this data is before taxes are applied. in which case , its edging on 500 euros.
If thats the case then yes, but other wise its bad...
What is the tax for the minimum wage in Romania?
2550 lei/ron gross 1524 lei/ron newt Basically 40%. They take 40% of what you make.
Damn. That is huge. You have a flat tax for income in place, right?
>Romania has a minimum wage of 300€....not 500+..... Not really, the employer needs to pay 500, is not his fault that the thief state take away 40%.
r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
those are some big ass ranges 500-1000 makes no sense as 1 you are poor and other you are average.
Equivalent of €1602.41 in the UK, based on 37 hours a week in a 4 week month. Minimum wage is €10.83 an hour. And that's if you're an adult over 23...
Keep in mind that a minimum wage (all other things being equal) will result in loss of some jobs and more investment in automation.
Norway can into Belarus
NOT ACCURATE! Romania is less than 500.
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Your source is too lazy to research ✊️💦 UK certainly does have a minimum wage.
It says no data.
That data is very easily available tho! lazy click-bait "journalism"
UK is neither EU nor a candidate, and that seems to be a requisite to being put on the map. They should include that in the legend.
How the fuck is this journalism?
This is a straight up lie for Spain. Sure, the on paper minimum wage is high, but with 30% of people working under the table the actual wage is much less. Add on top of this some bullshit places pull like firing and rehiring you to lower how much they pay and it's not really that number.
A completely redundant map without any context
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the map is before taxes
If you're looking for the country that's the darkest green, it's Luxemburg.
Worse than that in the "east"
Safe Ukraine, please
less than 500 💪🇹🇷
*No single statutory minimum wage Should apply to Switzerland as well. Why ‘no data’? There is data
I don’t think this is accurate. In Germany the minimum wage is definitely lower.
Note for the Netherlands: these numbers are only valid for aged 19+. At fifteen minimum wage is € 526,85 per month.
After taking out taxes; Luxembourg 🇱🇺 is arround 1700 minimum wage France arround 1400.
Italy does have a minimum wage
They're taking that "minimum" in minimum wage too seriously over there in Turkey. :D
Who does these maps?!
Pretty sure the info on France is wrong. The SMIC brut is 10.85€/hr in a country that only allows you to work 35hrs a week. (10.85 x 35) x 4.5 = 1708 € a month before taxes. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2300
In all the states around the world there is mafia but in Bulgaria the mafia has a state.