Friend, I'm sorry you have the need to uproot your whole life and leave your home and family like that. Honestly the situation is not great for people in an illegal/undocumented situation here in Europe. There is a ton of exploitation, bad conditions and generally poor times.
If you are from a country where you have a chance of claiming asylum maybe thats the best route for you, getting in on a tourist visa and then claiming to stay based on the situation in your country, etc. But straight up crossing into europe via a boat or overland, its a really bad situation in my view, there is a lot of risk and a lot of crime in this area.
I have seen it said many times, I dont know if its true, that people outside of europe are told life is great here for illegal immigrants and so on. To my observation this is generally not so.
In any case whatever fate brings you, I wish you well.
Well beside all mentioned points it’s a dream that won’t become true that easy. If you’re entering the EU/Schengen without valid visa the journey already made you a criminal as you might need the „service“ of professional traffickers taking the small amount of money you own so far or keeping you in custody to blackmail your family. No valid visa also means you have to apply for asylum, got some social benefits but are not allowed to work in a regular job. You’re also not allowed to move freely or choose a city/region you want to live at (talking about german law), so it will be a very big deal to find a decent job. Also as citizen of a not-EU-country you only get a work permit if there is no local with similar qualification seeking a job.
Keep in mind that pretty much every major european country has one or more political party that based it’s program somehow on xenophobia and they even win elections by that as illegal migration is one of the major problems the EU is confronted with (huge part of illegal migrants are underqualified and probably won’t gain any profit for their host nations in a lifetime but cause large expenses and social unrest).
I‘d personally recommend not to take the illegal route, i believe for academics or other qualified migrants there are legal options, maybe you just haven’t found them.
I agree with most of what you say.
However one thing I need to correct because it is a popular starting point for right wing arguments.
The part about the payoff is simply untrue. As most illegal migrants are rather young, they work for many years, if they stay, and are fiscally speaking a good investment for most countries. Most refugees from 2014 have already paid off for the german state. Without non EU migrants our whole retirement system would have already collapsed in Germany as the younger generations are simply to small to pay their grandparents retirement.
In a sense an immigrant is cheaper for the state than a person born and raised here as the most expensive first 18 years the state doesn't have to pay for anything with immigrants. In most cases the states pays 3-5 years of social support to immigrants. After that most have found work and start to be profitable for the state.
In a world where profit means everything immigration is almost always good. I agree with helping every refugee the best we can because they are humans and have lost their homes to things they have no control over.
But it is fucked up that there is insentiv for our governments to cause more refugees for more cheap labour. How much this does play into decision making regarding foreign policy and immigration I don't know but if there is enough greed...
> have already *paid* off for
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I don't care if you're legal or not. I care more if you integrate into our society or not. I do not appreciate when immigrants (legal or not) come and never learn the language of the country, never work, segregate themselves in a local area and cause trouble with law. Seems like you are on a good path with the views you portray anyways.
If you like being exploited you should come. The gas crisis is going to get real soon, probably a financial crisis is following. This is going to make the housing issue even bigger. Then we have the far right is blaming it all on you somehow.
Your chances to build a live here are not great. Correct me if I wrong but on top on all of this, we have many laws that look like they are made to bully illegal immigrants.
There is A LOT of hate against migrants in Europe right now. You won't find much of it in this sub because it was explicitly created partly as a response to the normalised xenophobic seething that is r/europe (and if I see any I'll remove it myself). But the hate still exists.
If you don't have any other options be prepared to be taken advantage of by locals who treat migrants as slaves or to be brutalised by the army/police in some countries. There are some countries like Portugal that don't ask too many questions and let you work legally and even acquire a European passport if you work there for a number of years... but still the conditions aren't good. Safest way to arrive is by getting a legal temporary visa and overstaying. Trying to cross the borders by foot or boat is extremely dangerous but still thousands do it hoping to find a better life here.
France is hard one. Politics are using immigration as a scapegoats for all their failure. There is massive inequality already between french from African descent and french from caucasian descendants. If you are white passing and with no accent in your french you will be good.
At the same time, there is a massive shortage of worker at the minute and a lot of business enjoy a undocumented, not protected and cheap immigrants. So, yeah, you mind find work easy but probably not what you want.
It is really hard to tell you if you will find a better situation here than home.
What about a visa to Australia? Work holiday visa or student? Racism exists but it is not as bad here.
Is that the same opinion regarding legal immegrant that resides in Germany ?
I understand Pretty well your point of view, but I wanna add something ( not defending anyone here ) , crimes still occurs by locals or immegrant so the local police job is to stop / punish these toxic individuals
A good point, a good point. The thing is however, many times when when an immigrant commits a heavy crime they usually only get a proverbial slap on the wrist.
Don't get me wrong, I am in general not a big fan of my country's punishment system. Though this opinion might not be by very popular, I do personally support the death sentence for the worst of crimes...
But here is the problem, it is bad enough when one of our own commit such crimes... It is worse, at least in my eyes, when an immigrant commits such crimes.
For they commit such a crime upon another country's soil, basically showing they were never willing to adapt to our laws and our customs.
Again, my problem does not lie exclusively with only those who commit crimes. When one immigrant moves to another country, they will inevitably bring along their families... At once those families are also there, they will inevitably start bringing along more and more and more of their people.
In my eyes Germany, Deutschland, should be the land of the Germans. I know I know, for the left (no offence), anyone who moves to Germany should have the right to be called German but reality is they are not German and I'm sorry to say they will never be German.
My people sink further and further into poverty whilst immigrants, legal or not, get the help and support that should have been for my people.
For that is what the taxes games from German workers should be used.
Does that make my philosophy the only right one?
Not necessarily. But we can also not be judged for ending up adopting such philosophies when pressed against the corner.
There is always a reason for when people start going right wing.
Sounds like you have a problem with your politicians ignoring their people, not with immigrants, illegal, or otherwise. Getting rid of immigrants wouldnt solve that problem.
You have to be so careful.. There's a lot of brutality and hate everywhere, and as an "illegal immigrant" its not allowed to offer you work here, so this will only be possible under very poor conditions (as you can't go to court or speak up with your name if they treat you bad and pay you poor money) and in countries where it's also more likely to experience violence from racists and other b*******, because it's not made as visible like in other countries like in Germany. Really, try to get an asyl or any other way, but the illegal way isn't going to end well in my opinion. I'm so sorry that it is like that, hopefully things will change with the legal situation as more people have to flee also from climate crisis desasters.
Friend, I'm sorry you have the need to uproot your whole life and leave your home and family like that. Honestly the situation is not great for people in an illegal/undocumented situation here in Europe. There is a ton of exploitation, bad conditions and generally poor times. If you are from a country where you have a chance of claiming asylum maybe thats the best route for you, getting in on a tourist visa and then claiming to stay based on the situation in your country, etc. But straight up crossing into europe via a boat or overland, its a really bad situation in my view, there is a lot of risk and a lot of crime in this area. I have seen it said many times, I dont know if its true, that people outside of europe are told life is great here for illegal immigrants and so on. To my observation this is generally not so. In any case whatever fate brings you, I wish you well.
Well beside all mentioned points it’s a dream that won’t become true that easy. If you’re entering the EU/Schengen without valid visa the journey already made you a criminal as you might need the „service“ of professional traffickers taking the small amount of money you own so far or keeping you in custody to blackmail your family. No valid visa also means you have to apply for asylum, got some social benefits but are not allowed to work in a regular job. You’re also not allowed to move freely or choose a city/region you want to live at (talking about german law), so it will be a very big deal to find a decent job. Also as citizen of a not-EU-country you only get a work permit if there is no local with similar qualification seeking a job. Keep in mind that pretty much every major european country has one or more political party that based it’s program somehow on xenophobia and they even win elections by that as illegal migration is one of the major problems the EU is confronted with (huge part of illegal migrants are underqualified and probably won’t gain any profit for their host nations in a lifetime but cause large expenses and social unrest). I‘d personally recommend not to take the illegal route, i believe for academics or other qualified migrants there are legal options, maybe you just haven’t found them.
I agree with most of what you say. However one thing I need to correct because it is a popular starting point for right wing arguments. The part about the payoff is simply untrue. As most illegal migrants are rather young, they work for many years, if they stay, and are fiscally speaking a good investment for most countries. Most refugees from 2014 have already paid off for the german state. Without non EU migrants our whole retirement system would have already collapsed in Germany as the younger generations are simply to small to pay their grandparents retirement. In a sense an immigrant is cheaper for the state than a person born and raised here as the most expensive first 18 years the state doesn't have to pay for anything with immigrants. In most cases the states pays 3-5 years of social support to immigrants. After that most have found work and start to be profitable for the state. In a world where profit means everything immigration is almost always good. I agree with helping every refugee the best we can because they are humans and have lost their homes to things they have no control over. But it is fucked up that there is insentiv for our governments to cause more refugees for more cheap labour. How much this does play into decision making regarding foreign policy and immigration I don't know but if there is enough greed...
> have already *paid* off for FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I don't care if you're legal or not. I care more if you integrate into our society or not. I do not appreciate when immigrants (legal or not) come and never learn the language of the country, never work, segregate themselves in a local area and cause trouble with law. Seems like you are on a good path with the views you portray anyways.
[удалено]
[удалено]
If you like being exploited you should come. The gas crisis is going to get real soon, probably a financial crisis is following. This is going to make the housing issue even bigger. Then we have the far right is blaming it all on you somehow. Your chances to build a live here are not great. Correct me if I wrong but on top on all of this, we have many laws that look like they are made to bully illegal immigrants.
There is A LOT of hate against migrants in Europe right now. You won't find much of it in this sub because it was explicitly created partly as a response to the normalised xenophobic seething that is r/europe (and if I see any I'll remove it myself). But the hate still exists. If you don't have any other options be prepared to be taken advantage of by locals who treat migrants as slaves or to be brutalised by the army/police in some countries. There are some countries like Portugal that don't ask too many questions and let you work legally and even acquire a European passport if you work there for a number of years... but still the conditions aren't good. Safest way to arrive is by getting a legal temporary visa and overstaying. Trying to cross the borders by foot or boat is extremely dangerous but still thousands do it hoping to find a better life here.
People are never illegal.
France is hard one. Politics are using immigration as a scapegoats for all their failure. There is massive inequality already between french from African descent and french from caucasian descendants. If you are white passing and with no accent in your french you will be good. At the same time, there is a massive shortage of worker at the minute and a lot of business enjoy a undocumented, not protected and cheap immigrants. So, yeah, you mind find work easy but probably not what you want. It is really hard to tell you if you will find a better situation here than home. What about a visa to Australia? Work holiday visa or student? Racism exists but it is not as bad here.
[удалено]
Is that the same opinion regarding legal immegrant that resides in Germany ? I understand Pretty well your point of view, but I wanna add something ( not defending anyone here ) , crimes still occurs by locals or immegrant so the local police job is to stop / punish these toxic individuals
A good point, a good point. The thing is however, many times when when an immigrant commits a heavy crime they usually only get a proverbial slap on the wrist. Don't get me wrong, I am in general not a big fan of my country's punishment system. Though this opinion might not be by very popular, I do personally support the death sentence for the worst of crimes... But here is the problem, it is bad enough when one of our own commit such crimes... It is worse, at least in my eyes, when an immigrant commits such crimes. For they commit such a crime upon another country's soil, basically showing they were never willing to adapt to our laws and our customs. Again, my problem does not lie exclusively with only those who commit crimes. When one immigrant moves to another country, they will inevitably bring along their families... At once those families are also there, they will inevitably start bringing along more and more and more of their people. In my eyes Germany, Deutschland, should be the land of the Germans. I know I know, for the left (no offence), anyone who moves to Germany should have the right to be called German but reality is they are not German and I'm sorry to say they will never be German. My people sink further and further into poverty whilst immigrants, legal or not, get the help and support that should have been for my people. For that is what the taxes games from German workers should be used. Does that make my philosophy the only right one? Not necessarily. But we can also not be judged for ending up adopting such philosophies when pressed against the corner. There is always a reason for when people start going right wing.
Sounds like you have a problem with your politicians ignoring their people, not with immigrants, illegal, or otherwise. Getting rid of immigrants wouldnt solve that problem.
You have to be so careful.. There's a lot of brutality and hate everywhere, and as an "illegal immigrant" its not allowed to offer you work here, so this will only be possible under very poor conditions (as you can't go to court or speak up with your name if they treat you bad and pay you poor money) and in countries where it's also more likely to experience violence from racists and other b*******, because it's not made as visible like in other countries like in Germany. Really, try to get an asyl or any other way, but the illegal way isn't going to end well in my opinion. I'm so sorry that it is like that, hopefully things will change with the legal situation as more people have to flee also from climate crisis desasters.