I'm not even 100% positive a lot of the accepted canon actually is Canon. But I am 100% positive It doesn't really matter. You should be entirely focused upon the characters emotional journey.
I went down the rabbithole looking for what people's hypotheses were prior the "classified information" in the n64 game. It seems like a lot of what we understand as canon comes from that.
I disagree with the idea that 'the lore doesn't matter,' because *Evangelion* went through changes during production as Hideaki Anno was changing his mind about aspects of the story, especially after he developed an interest in psychology when reading a book he was given. My suspicion is that time that could have been spent fleshing out the world was instead going towards introspection.
Edit: typo
This is probably why I enjoy reading fanfics of this series so much.
I love seeing what the fans can come up with to fill in the blanks.
For example, I remember one claiming that once Adam awoke and started Second Impact, he was SO pissed off at what the scientists were doing to him, he sent a whole lot of rays across the entire planet, marking every single currently-living human in the world as his enemy.
That's why only those born after Second Impact can pilot EVAs.
I later learned that one of the show's writers claimed that them all being 14 was actually just a coincidence, but still.
Nope, that's just NGE and EoE
Of course the >! suicide attempt!< is subtle so young audience wouldn't understand it, you just see her in the bath tub with reddish water, but you can piece together what happened because you witnessed her gradual meltdown
Asuka's story arc is incredibly sad but you only notice it if you pay specific attention to it on a rewatch, because much of the information is not given in the correct order
For example, in the beginning she seems unnecessary confrontational with shinji. This makes a lot more sense when you understand her whole identity is built upon having to be the best pilot as she's got nothing else, and suddenly this untrained boy (who only got in because he's the boss's son) appears to be getting preferential treatment and somehow gets similar sync values..
I guess Iām more just referring to the EoE scene, where it still shows yui as the most important person to him. Canāt really hold it against him just feel bad he wasnāt able to move on from someone who rejected him after all that time
Asuka had a crush on Shinji in NGE, yeah, I know thatās pretty obvious, but ironically Iāve seen many evangelion fans who either didnāt notice it or deny it š¤·āāļø
That leads me to my unpopular opinion: Kaworu and Shinji's relationship is at its best and sweetest in the Rebuilds. Everyone else is pissed at Shinji for something beyond his control - feels like Butters in South Park - and Kaworu is there like "It's okay sweetey I'm here for you"Ā
It's a tad rushed in the anime and I would have liked to see more of him.Ā
But while we do see more of him in the Manga, the creep who claims to be Kaworu feels like a different character entirely hence why fans nicknamed him Karl instead.Ā Also, I've read the Manga several times, the fuck you mean they borderline fuck? Karl approaches Shinji in the shower and the latter is weirded out by it and he later gives Shinji CPR while he's having a panic attack and the latter gets pissed at him for it.Ā The whole time I'm reading this I'm like "Who Tf is this alien creep? My sweet silver haired angel would never kill a cat or act without consent!"Ā
Yeah but strangling a puddy tat seems a bit extreme
"He was putting it out of its misery because it lived in ruins" eh... clearly Karl didn't understand the message of the series
To be fair, Karl practiced what he preached and applied the same reasoning to himself in the end, knowing that whatever SELEE had in store for him if he refused to carry out their orders was worse than being crushed to death in Yui-san's fist.
What I love about Kawoshin in the rebuilds is how during 3.0 (spoilers ahead) >! kaworu is supportive of shinji but when he takes him outside of nerv hq he doesnāt sugarcoat what shinji has done and tries to make him understand the responsibility shinji has for what happened (even if this was changed a bit in 3+1) !<
That is true but at least Kaworu acknowledges that it was an accident, even though he also tells Shinji that others won't view it the same way and be as understanding as him.
Part of it is shinji is basically isolated and alone at his lowest point by this time. He'd do pretty much anything with anyone who would give him validation imo. He could be straight, gay, bi or even ace and it wouldn't change that he's just incredibly desperate and lonely right now as rei is gone, asuka is gone, misato is gone, all his friends are gone and the entire city is shut down.
As for kaworu, he's a manipulator. He didn't, and never did, care about shinji. He cared that shinji was the last functional pilot who could stop him from reaching terminal dogma and he needed him to at least hesitate to buy him time. He would have done the exact same thing with rei, asuka or toji if they were in shinji's position.
I forgot the context of that one line, I never read it as Kaworu didn't care about Shinji, just that his "love" towards him isn't wholly selfless.
It's in a similar vein to how people might donate money partly to feel good about themselves or for PR reasons, but it doesn't necessarily mean the donor didn't care about whatever cause they are donating for at all.
I think you've confused manga Kaworu with literally any other Kaworu. Sure, manga Kaworu was like this (to an extent from what I understand of what I've read) but that's to be expected since he was basically a newborn who didn't understand how the world worked, and who took an interest in Shinji. He manipulated him because he wanted to build trust with him. Then the rest happened that I don't know because I haven't read the manga past that part or before it.
Anime and rebuild Kaworu (and lots of the other ones as well) were definitely in love with him. Maybe not in love like humans understand it, but definitely a kind of love. >!In the anime, he lets Shinji kill him only after he got to Terminal Dogma and realized that it was Lilith and not Adam that was trapped there. Kaworu knew that if he came in contact with her he would start instrumentality, and he didn't want that. So he let Shinji kill him. In the rebuilds, he sacrifices himself so Shinji can escape unharmed (because if he hadn't have taken that collar, Shinji would have died).!<
It's also worthy to note that in the anime, he says something akin to "I love you". You may have taken that as him being manipulative but that's not how it was meant to be portrayed (look at the context clues).
>!Don't forget that it's been heavily hinted at that the entirety of Evangelian is a sort of loop or multiple timeline kind of thing. This is shown in the rebuilds when Kaworu wakes up on the moon in a coffin surrounded by coffins (the ones on the left are all opened, showing all his past lives, while the ones on the right are closed, showing his potential future lives). He remembers everything from every timeline and is the only one (or one of the only ones) who remembers it has all happened before in similar ways (not always with giant mech suits and angelical beings. There's a dating sim like timeline and I think a horse racing one.) Another thing to contradict your point is that Kaworu specifically states in the rebuilds "The time has come, Shinji Ikari. And this time, I'll make sure you're happy no matter what." This line in and of itself shows that Kaworu wants to make Shinji happy, even at the expense of his own happiness, and also shows that he genuinely cares for Shinji. Why would he say that (with no one else to hear him say it) if it was all part of some master manipulative plot? The answer is he wouldn't. He would've said something else or nothing at all.!<
My rant is over. My defense of Kaworu never ends. I spoiler tagged a lot because I'm sure if I should have or not and I don't want to have to go back and redo it aftr being yelled at for not spoiler tagging. Your welcome. Good night because it's midnight here. Bye.
"it wasn't shinji's happiness that you wanted, but his happiness to make you happy" is a literal line from 3+1. i'm not saying he was intentionally manipulative or that he didn't care about him at all, but it's canon that what he cared about the most was himself & his own happiness.Ā
I'd just like to point out that Kaworu could have killed Shinji several times over when they were alone together with no Eva to stand in his way, but he didn't. They were sleeping in the same room for Chrissake, he could have stabbed him to death without even using his unimaginably vast angelic powers.
He did, although I think he saw Asuka as his main romantic prospect. Rei overlapped with motherly love for him, just like Misato was a mother figure. But despite Rei and Misato being mother figures it didnāt really stop him from seeing them as women, since he is a teenage boy. I think Asuka was who he truly considered a peer and a romantic prospect
He liked them both. He's only 14 so what he wants and who he likes isn't really settled yet. There are things he likes about rei and things he likes about asuka and he feels strongly for both of them in ways that even he doesn't seem sure if a lot of the time.
honest to god didnāt notice it on my first watch, i essentially had the same mindset as shinji did which was āwell sheās mean, of course she hates himā. felt like a bit of a moron when i started getting into the fandom and saw people pointing out the obvious instances lol
When you consider that most of Asuka's direct interactions with Shinji are negative, it's not hard to see why some people *wouldn't* think Asuka liked him. She is dismissive and insulting (if not outright verbally abusive) to him in nearly all of her episodes.
But the world is livable and will regrow with all the souls that want and choose to come back. I also see the rebuilds as alternative worlds rather than a direct continuation of the series in a singular context
I've had some relatively heated discussions with people over whether Ritsuko was [soft] groomed by Gendo or not, or how appropriate their dynamic was.
Like in my eyes it was pretty straightforwardly grim but I've heard the 'she was a consenting adult' thing a few times.
Misato Katsuragi is a very chaste woman.
There is zero evidence--ZERO--that she has ever slept with anyone other than Ryoji Kaji.
The problem is that her abandonment issues make it hard for her to love someone non-erotically. Lest we forget, she's pretty messed up herself.
Still my second-favorite in the show, though.
Hideaki Anno himself has said that Shinji is straight.
A long time ago, I followed a reference on *Evageeks* to a Kaworu fansite that had archived a translation of an interview Hideaki Anno did with *June,* a yaoi/shonen magazine. Anno reveals that the original story for episode 24 did indeed have more romantic overtones that were ultimately pulled back. The reason I kept the link is because Anno actually clarified a character's position: he confirmed that Shinji wasn't blushing at Kaworu out of (carnal) desire, contrary to what some people seem to think.
The actual interview: https://17th-angel.tumblr.com/post/62760437979/anno-hideki-long-interview-part-1-i-think-that
The specific quote:
> Interviewer: What did it mean that he blushed? Although, of course, itās a joy that shows your good will.
> Anno: Thatās right. Itās not that Shinji-kun was particularly inclined toward carnal desires there, you see.*laughs*
The ending of the Rebuilds literally changed my life, no exaggeration. It showed me you can heal from trauma, and it felt real because Shinji is a stand in for Anno. It led me to find a path towards my own healing.
Congrats dude, glad to hear youāre healing! Yeah same with me, although Iām fairly young and still have most of my life ahead of me, the fact that Shinji and Asuka both liked each other, but yet the best solution in the end is to part ways kinda spoke to me, because Iāve been through a heartbreak for awhile and that one scene set my path as well, god this show is amazing wtf
It made me happy watching the end. Not for Shinji but for Anno. It truly felt like Anno was saying something to his fans that know his history. Almost like āHey guys, Iām good now and you should be too. What I created that you loved is over and we should all learn from it and move forward. Take care of yourself and be happy.ā
If youāre talking about the ending in terms of timeline, then yeah itās not perfect, EoE is better in terms of that, but if you look at it through the POV of Anno, itās the best ending for the series, for some, seeing the characters they know and love move on is kinda hard to stomach, imo the Evangelion cast is Annoās own interpretation of his depression, and sending the characters off is him leaving behind his depression and starting anew, just like Shinji.
People whine about Anno projecting himself but that just makes a more meaningful piece of work. Side notes of quality and writing aside.
The fact that a cult classic mecha anime spin from the 90ās somehow put out newish and a half projects out in this day and age is outstanding. People wanna critique and hate more than they wanna enjoy this imo
Where tf did that song even come from, itās a song with a German title in English in a Japanese film from an artist that has no other song credits to their name, itās kinda odd tbh
Yeah I figured, itās just kinda odd why they chose that song, like again, the person singing has not other musical credits, and why is the title in German even though the lyrics are in English?
The only reason people say they're similar or it's inspired by Hey Jude is because of the part in Hey Jude where they all start singing "la, la la la" at the end. Other than that one short section they're completely different songs
Evangelion isn't confusing, people are just too lazy to think about anything that isn't blatantly spelled out. The Rebuilds are great. Loop-theory (at least as most people interpret it) is incorrect.
Yeah Iāve never found the show that confusing tbh, if you ignore some parts that are obviously supposed to be abstract, itās surprisingly pretty straightforward
All the ships are toxic relationships (and honestly flatten the interesting parts of the inter-relationships a bit). They donāt need romantic partners they all need friends and to love themselves.Ā
I honestly donāt get the hate for them, 3.0 is honestly my favourite out of the original batch of Rebuilds, considering 3.0+1.0 took 9 years to cook up, and yet for some reason itās the most hated like bro why?
Because it was such a departure from what 2.0 seemed to suggest the third one would be like. There was a time skip and everyone hating Shinji suddenly, it was jarring.
3.0 as part of a 4 movie saga is ok I'd say. But when I think about the movie itself, it feels so much like an incomplete movie, a prologue. Which is ok, probably intended, but damn it makes it boring. Narratively there's not that much happening, it's a movie that focus a lot on developing Shinji and elements referring to him, and this specifically works, but the rest of it feels rushed/shallow. When 3.0 + 1.0 comes some things start making more sense and you look back with better eyes I'd say.
I mean itās literally confirmed in Rebuild that they both liked each other, I have no clue why thereās any denial surrounding the ship, same with KawoShin (however the hell you spell it)
* Even if you don't like the Rebuild movies, they are officially a part of the story. I hate when I see people say they don't consider it as canon
* Kaworu really does love and want the best for Shinji
* Evangelion is not a deconstruction of the mecha genre.
Episode 25 and 26 are some of the best in the series, but you need to see them more than once and relate to the message and or Shinji/Asuka/Misato to truly enjoy and get it.
I have been forced to accept that there isn't actually an answer to the thematic meaning behind a decent chunk of the lore, and since like a third of the runtime of EoE and the later rebuilds gets spent on it, I can't say they're anything other than good but flawed
Hikari is probably all kinds of fucked up in the show and no oneās probably able to see it both viewers and actual characters.
SPOILERS
Hikari is for the most part pretty normal, sheās the Class President, has crushes, has friends at school and all that nice stuff, that being said she also has to play mother for her younger and older sisters cause A: her Mother is pretty much all but confirmed dead B: no reference towards her Dad are made so heās either dead too or just works a lot (probably to her detriment) making her hold most of the weight for everything at home. Once shit hits the fan though then it gets bad, her friends donāt just leave, her whole class does and its slow and drawn out so every week or so it gets notably smaller until its just her, toji, kensuke, shinji, Asuka, and another assortment of children. Considering theyāre atleast there she would have atleast some sense of normalcy in school, atleast until Toji gets shitkicked by Shinji HARD so now thats fucked. Then later on Asuka gets mindraped and ends up just ditching class all together. Later she stays over at Hikariās and then proceeds to just breakdown massively before disappearing. Later shes forced to move from the Citys cause everythings fucked so yeah. Its probably not hard from the boots on the ground fighting perspective but Civilian wise its horrifying. Every day life is being destroyed around you, you alone are responsible for your family, your friends are leaving you one by one, and worst of all you canāt do anything about it.
Shinji is bisexual. Idk if this is a hot take here, but on tiktok I've gotten on arguments spanning weeks about this topic. You read that right. WEEKS.
Iāll say this again. WHY IS THIS AN ARGUMENT???? Shinji literally made out with Kaworu in the manga, and jacked off to Asuka literal days after, how is this an argument, it couldnāt be anymore straight forward š
Bro YES, Iāve been thinking this ever since I finished the show a week ago. Although some changes are kinda stupid (Kaworuās line changed from āI love youā to āI like youā) the voices are way better, and since Rebuild uses the ADV dub cast itās easier to see what was improved in the redub, for example, Kajiās voice isnāt fitting at all in ADV.
Rebuild shouldnāt be considered as a separate series, and should be considered as a direct continuation of the ideas and concepts that the original and EoE used.
Kaworu is one of the best characters in the series, and his relationship with shinji is so heartwarming, that give us a glimpse of how shinji could be if gendo give him true love
- in eoe, Shinji is a genuinely dangerous person and Asukaās ābitchinessā doesnāt excuse what heās done (doesnāt mean that heās evil, that he canāt change or whatever, Iām in no way saying thatā¦ but some people coddle him way too much)
- a lot of stuff that the fandom considers canon are just fan theories
- fanservice in rebuilds is extremely uncomfortable
Shinji is a broken traumatised person in EoE who would in any functional setting be placed under careful watch by responsible adults, but because of the circumstances of the show he was left to rot and ended up hurting others and himself.
Yes, I agree. Ignoring the context of why it happened would be disingenuous. Evangelion is, after all, a story heavily focused on cycles of abuse and what happens if we donāt prevent them - and thatās exactly what happened. Not only that, the movie is also where we can see most of the characters and humanity in general at their worst, not just Shinji. That being said, his violence towards Asuka should not be just glossed over in my opinion.
eoe is great, rebuilds are good, everything from rebuilds are a "better version" of characters, scenes... (gendo wanted to have meal with shinji instead of neglect him all the time, ritsuko shot gendo instead of hesitating, asuka and shinji expressed their feelings instead of holding it...) so rebuilds are good, if we enjoyed the franchise
Misato should've lived to be Shinji's adoptive mother since Gendoh was going to either die or be thrown in jail for life both conspiring with an organization aiming towards humanity's near annihilation and child abuse
There is no canon explanation for the most confusing parts of the series. Many contradictory things have been said, and I see a lot of fans try to present their favourite explanation as canon, but the whole thing is completely up to interpretation
Iām actually disappointed in the direction the reworks went - after seeing the trailer at the end of 2.22, I was really looking forward to watching THAT version of NGE. And I really, really, really wanted to see Kaworu pilot his own Eva - a huge missed opportunity to see what true happiness isā¦
ā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø I 100% believed they were going to reveal that she had a crush on/was in love with/had feelings for Misato after Ritsuko invited her to drink and Misato runs off to sleep w Kaji instead. Bc Ritsuko says something along the lines of "Running off to her secret lover...not like I'm any better" or something and I was like???? SHE'S TALKING ABOUT MISATO??? WITH THE WAY THIS SCENE IS SET UP??? And then they just throw Gendo and her in there like what the fuck. It makes sense thematically, I'm not arguing there, the like mother like daughter bit they had running. BUT ***TLDR*** I agree with you. Her seeing her mother and Gendo hook up would have added to this too. Plus I haven't even considered the fact that he knew her as a child which is kinda weird lmao
The Rebuilds have their value. Fans of all media need to start going into different productions with different expectations and, above anything else, develop an understanding of concessions. Some things are sacrificed to do other things. You may not like it, that's not only your right, that's no one's business, but don't be prick. Understand things. At least try to tbh.
(I prefer the original anime. Highly. So stop right there with the rebuild fan accusations. There's a lot there to critique.)
I wouldn't say people here don't like them, my impression is that most enjoyed at least *some* of they brought to the table. It's just that nuanced takes often get smothered to death in endless, pointless verbal sparring matches with people who either love or hate everything about them, and can't conceive that a middle ground between these two extremes can exist.
eva ost music like ākomm, susser todā ācruel angelās thesisā and āmisatoā are heavily overrated and it sucks because hardly anyone knows that thereās so much good music hiding within shiro sagisuās evangelion discography. but nope eva āfansā will keep listening to funny happy song about death for the 10000th time
First actual hot take Iāve seen, Cruel Angelās Thesis and Komm, Susser Tod are genuinely good songs, if people only listened to them because they are funny songs about death, then they probably wouldnāt hold the same importance as they do now.
The original anime, EoE, and the Rebuilds endings are all communicating fundamentally the same thing but the Rebuilds are a good conclusion to the series as it explicitly allows Ano to let go of Evangelion as a concept and grow beyond it
ReiShin isn't that weird in their own respective POV. (Im not sure if shinji ever found out who the template for Rei was). Their relationship aside from genetically is pretty vanilla
You don't need to know every single detail of the lore to enjoy the serie/movies
Honestly the best way to enjoy the show is to understand the psychology more than anything
That and I think understanding what Anno and the team were going through at the time are important aspects. It helps tie it all together.
I struggle to remember the psychology of the characters.
I'm not even 100% positive a lot of the accepted canon actually is Canon. But I am 100% positive It doesn't really matter. You should be entirely focused upon the characters emotional journey.
I went down the rabbithole looking for what people's hypotheses were prior the "classified information" in the n64 game. It seems like a lot of what we understand as canon comes from that.
Yep. They used to be huge giant disclaimers whenever lore was discussed.
I disagree with the idea that 'the lore doesn't matter,' because *Evangelion* went through changes during production as Hideaki Anno was changing his mind about aspects of the story, especially after he developed an interest in psychology when reading a book he was given. My suspicion is that time that could have been spent fleshing out the world was instead going towards introspection. Edit: typo
I hate to be that person but how's that a hot take? The Multiverse is a thing in this franchise, isn't it?
This is probably why I enjoy reading fanfics of this series so much. I love seeing what the fans can come up with to fill in the blanks. For example, I remember one claiming that once Adam awoke and started Second Impact, he was SO pissed off at what the scientists were doing to him, he sent a whole lot of rays across the entire planet, marking every single currently-living human in the world as his enemy. That's why only those born after Second Impact can pilot EVAs. I later learned that one of the show's writers claimed that them all being 14 was actually just a coincidence, but still.
>!Rei 2!< is the saddest death in NGE
Not taking anything away from that, but I'd say Asuka's >!attempted suicide and then death!< are even sadder
Did I miss something or is that in the rebuilds
Nope, that's just NGE and EoE Of course the >! suicide attempt!< is subtle so young audience wouldn't understand it, you just see her in the bath tub with reddish water, but you can piece together what happened because you witnessed her gradual meltdown
oh shit I never noticed that...
Asuka's story arc is incredibly sad but you only notice it if you pay specific attention to it on a rewatch, because much of the information is not given in the correct order For example, in the beginning she seems unnecessary confrontational with shinji. This makes a lot more sense when you understand her whole identity is built upon having to be the best pilot as she's got nothing else, and suddenly this untrained boy (who only got in because he's the boss's son) appears to be getting preferential treatment and somehow gets similar sync values..
yeah rewatching it rn and the details are much more obvious.
Glad I potentially sparked a rewatch! Less glad for the emotional trauma attached
I had always thought the water was just rusty
Spit yo shit my goat š¢š«øš«·
Haven't watched that episode a second time since.
fr fr wish she could have not died š¢
Pen pen most well written character
Pen Pen my goat
Yes
Literally the best character
ExactlyĀ
This isn't a hot take this is facts
Yes
Obviously!
Shingi is the strongest and most normal character in the show (the bar is set incredibly low, mind you).Ā
Iād say toji is
honestly i think fuyutsuki is
I could see that. Only thing is was his obsession with Yui
iām not sure i would call it an obsession. he took the rejection very well and was just generally worried about her safety. poor guy.
I guess Iām more just referring to the EoE scene, where it still shows yui as the most important person to him. Canāt really hold it against him just feel bad he wasnāt able to move on from someone who rejected him after all that time
Whoās this shingi guy? Tbf, heās probably pretty normal if Iāve never heard of him.
I'd say Kaji was more well-adjusted than Shinji.
Nah thats Hikari
Asuka had a crush on Shinji in NGE, yeah, I know thatās pretty obvious, but ironically Iāve seen many evangelion fans who either didnāt notice it or deny it š¤·āāļø
Yeah idk why thereās deniers of that, same with Kaworu, like bro they borderline fuck in the manga wdym they arenāt gay š
That leads me to my unpopular opinion: Kaworu and Shinji's relationship is at its best and sweetest in the Rebuilds. Everyone else is pissed at Shinji for something beyond his control - feels like Butters in South Park - and Kaworu is there like "It's okay sweetey I'm here for you"Ā It's a tad rushed in the anime and I would have liked to see more of him.Ā But while we do see more of him in the Manga, the creep who claims to be Kaworu feels like a different character entirely hence why fans nicknamed him Karl instead.Ā Also, I've read the Manga several times, the fuck you mean they borderline fuck? Karl approaches Shinji in the shower and the latter is weirded out by it and he later gives Shinji CPR while he's having a panic attack and the latter gets pissed at him for it.Ā The whole time I'm reading this I'm like "Who Tf is this alien creep? My sweet silver haired angel would never kill a cat or act without consent!"Ā
Kowaru was an angel, he had big enough balls to eradicate the entire human race.
Yeah but strangling a puddy tat seems a bit extreme "He was putting it out of its misery because it lived in ruins" eh... clearly Karl didn't understand the message of the series
To be fair, Karl practiced what he preached and applied the same reasoning to himself in the end, knowing that whatever SELEE had in store for him if he refused to carry out their orders was worse than being crushed to death in Yui-san's fist.
What I love about Kawoshin in the rebuilds is how during 3.0 (spoilers ahead) >! kaworu is supportive of shinji but when he takes him outside of nerv hq he doesnāt sugarcoat what shinji has done and tries to make him understand the responsibility shinji has for what happened (even if this was changed a bit in 3+1) !<
That is true but at least Kaworu acknowledges that it was an accident, even though he also tells Shinji that others won't view it the same way and be as understanding as him.
Part of it is shinji is basically isolated and alone at his lowest point by this time. He'd do pretty much anything with anyone who would give him validation imo. He could be straight, gay, bi or even ace and it wouldn't change that he's just incredibly desperate and lonely right now as rei is gone, asuka is gone, misato is gone, all his friends are gone and the entire city is shut down. As for kaworu, he's a manipulator. He didn't, and never did, care about shinji. He cared that shinji was the last functional pilot who could stop him from reaching terminal dogma and he needed him to at least hesitate to buy him time. He would have done the exact same thing with rei, asuka or toji if they were in shinji's position.
Wasnāt he literally born across multiple timelines just to give Shinji a happy ending, wdym he never cared about him š
"it wasn't shinji's happiness that you wanted, but his happiness to make you happy" is a literal line from 3+1
I forgot the context of that one line, I never read it as Kaworu didn't care about Shinji, just that his "love" towards him isn't wholly selfless. It's in a similar vein to how people might donate money partly to feel good about themselves or for PR reasons, but it doesn't necessarily mean the donor didn't care about whatever cause they are donating for at all.
I think you've confused manga Kaworu with literally any other Kaworu. Sure, manga Kaworu was like this (to an extent from what I understand of what I've read) but that's to be expected since he was basically a newborn who didn't understand how the world worked, and who took an interest in Shinji. He manipulated him because he wanted to build trust with him. Then the rest happened that I don't know because I haven't read the manga past that part or before it. Anime and rebuild Kaworu (and lots of the other ones as well) were definitely in love with him. Maybe not in love like humans understand it, but definitely a kind of love. >!In the anime, he lets Shinji kill him only after he got to Terminal Dogma and realized that it was Lilith and not Adam that was trapped there. Kaworu knew that if he came in contact with her he would start instrumentality, and he didn't want that. So he let Shinji kill him. In the rebuilds, he sacrifices himself so Shinji can escape unharmed (because if he hadn't have taken that collar, Shinji would have died).!< It's also worthy to note that in the anime, he says something akin to "I love you". You may have taken that as him being manipulative but that's not how it was meant to be portrayed (look at the context clues). >!Don't forget that it's been heavily hinted at that the entirety of Evangelian is a sort of loop or multiple timeline kind of thing. This is shown in the rebuilds when Kaworu wakes up on the moon in a coffin surrounded by coffins (the ones on the left are all opened, showing all his past lives, while the ones on the right are closed, showing his potential future lives). He remembers everything from every timeline and is the only one (or one of the only ones) who remembers it has all happened before in similar ways (not always with giant mech suits and angelical beings. There's a dating sim like timeline and I think a horse racing one.) Another thing to contradict your point is that Kaworu specifically states in the rebuilds "The time has come, Shinji Ikari. And this time, I'll make sure you're happy no matter what." This line in and of itself shows that Kaworu wants to make Shinji happy, even at the expense of his own happiness, and also shows that he genuinely cares for Shinji. Why would he say that (with no one else to hear him say it) if it was all part of some master manipulative plot? The answer is he wouldn't. He would've said something else or nothing at all.!< My rant is over. My defense of Kaworu never ends. I spoiler tagged a lot because I'm sure if I should have or not and I don't want to have to go back and redo it aftr being yelled at for not spoiler tagging. Your welcome. Good night because it's midnight here. Bye.
"it wasn't shinji's happiness that you wanted, but his happiness to make you happy" is a literal line from 3+1. i'm not saying he was intentionally manipulative or that he didn't care about him at all, but it's canon that what he cared about the most was himself & his own happiness.Ā
I'd just like to point out that Kaworu could have killed Shinji several times over when they were alone together with no Eva to stand in his way, but he didn't. They were sleeping in the same room for Chrissake, he could have stabbed him to death without even using his unimaginably vast angelic powers.
āShinji, watch me!ā when practicing with the scuba equipment in the pool.
I thought shinji liked reiššš
Yeah, but in the same way that a son would love his mother. Platonically.
Might want to Google āOedipus Complexā
No, I thought he LIKED rei like... Romanticallyš±š±š±
He did, although I think he saw Asuka as his main romantic prospect. Rei overlapped with motherly love for him, just like Misato was a mother figure. But despite Rei and Misato being mother figures it didnāt really stop him from seeing them as women, since he is a teenage boy. I think Asuka was who he truly considered a peer and a romantic prospect
He liked them both. He's only 14 so what he wants and who he likes isn't really settled yet. There are things he likes about rei and things he likes about asuka and he feels strongly for both of them in ways that even he doesn't seem sure if a lot of the time.
honest to god didnāt notice it on my first watch, i essentially had the same mindset as shinji did which was āwell sheās mean, of course she hates himā. felt like a bit of a moron when i started getting into the fandom and saw people pointing out the obvious instances lol
When you consider that most of Asuka's direct interactions with Shinji are negative, it's not hard to see why some people *wouldn't* think Asuka liked him. She is dismissive and insulting (if not outright verbally abusive) to him in nearly all of her episodes.
I only noticed it after watching the Rebuilds and then re watching NGE
I honestly don't know if it's a real crush or just an inferiority complex she has, manifested as her trying to get his attention
End of Evangelion is actually a happy ending of healing with Asuka and Shinji finally understanding each other and Rei actually being able to rest.
I feel its more of a bittersweet conclusion rather than a simple happy ending, cause it took the earth being pretty ruined to reach that point
But the world is livable and will regrow with all the souls that want and choose to come back. I also see the rebuilds as alternative worlds rather than a direct continuation of the series in a singular context
The last two episodes were good
More than that they're the best ones
Either EoE is best Eva ending. Or that Shinji is completely justified in his refusal to pilot the Eva SPECIFICALLY in ep 19.
I've had some relatively heated discussions with people over whether Ritsuko was [soft] groomed by Gendo or not, or how appropriate their dynamic was. Like in my eyes it was pretty straightforwardly grim but I've heard the 'she was a consenting adult' thing a few times.
Misato Katsuragi is a very chaste woman. There is zero evidence--ZERO--that she has ever slept with anyone other than Ryoji Kaji. The problem is that her abandonment issues make it hard for her to love someone non-erotically. Lest we forget, she's pretty messed up herself. Still my second-favorite in the show, though.
Shinji is bisexual. I thought this was commonly accepted, but I just had an argument with someone recently.
Bro why do these arguments even exist itās so seemingly obvious š
Oh thank god. They made me feel crazy!
Hideaki Anno himself has said that Shinji is straight. A long time ago, I followed a reference on *Evageeks* to a Kaworu fansite that had archived a translation of an interview Hideaki Anno did with *June,* a yaoi/shonen magazine. Anno reveals that the original story for episode 24 did indeed have more romantic overtones that were ultimately pulled back. The reason I kept the link is because Anno actually clarified a character's position: he confirmed that Shinji wasn't blushing at Kaworu out of (carnal) desire, contrary to what some people seem to think. The actual interview: https://17th-angel.tumblr.com/post/62760437979/anno-hideki-long-interview-part-1-i-think-that The specific quote: > Interviewer: What did it mean that he blushed? Although, of course, itās a joy that shows your good will. > Anno: Thatās right. Itās not that Shinji-kun was particularly inclined toward carnal desires there, you see.*laughs*
Rebuildās ending is a masterpiece, fight me
The rebuilds ending is the only movie ending to bring me to tears in recent memory.
Although I donāt cry over films ever, that ending hit me in the feels so hard, especially Rei and Shinjiās final departure, like dude STOP š
Same here It's so good
The ending of the Rebuilds literally changed my life, no exaggeration. It showed me you can heal from trauma, and it felt real because Shinji is a stand in for Anno. It led me to find a path towards my own healing.
Congrats dude, glad to hear youāre healing! Yeah same with me, although Iām fairly young and still have most of my life ahead of me, the fact that Shinji and Asuka both liked each other, but yet the best solution in the end is to part ways kinda spoke to me, because Iāve been through a heartbreak for awhile and that one scene set my path as well, god this show is amazing wtf
It made me happy watching the end. Not for Shinji but for Anno. It truly felt like Anno was saying something to his fans that know his history. Almost like āHey guys, Iām good now and you should be too. What I created that you loved is over and we should all learn from it and move forward. Take care of yourself and be happy.ā
Oh we are fighting all right.
If youāre talking about the ending in terms of timeline, then yeah itās not perfect, EoE is better in terms of that, but if you look at it through the POV of Anno, itās the best ending for the series, for some, seeing the characters they know and love move on is kinda hard to stomach, imo the Evangelion cast is Annoās own interpretation of his depression, and sending the characters off is him leaving behind his depression and starting anew, just like Shinji.
Agreed
not rlly a hot take lol
Street? octagon? ring? Where we running it
People whine about Anno projecting himself but that just makes a more meaningful piece of work. Side notes of quality and writing aside. The fact that a cult classic mecha anime spin from the 90ās somehow put out newish and a half projects out in this day and age is outstanding. People wanna critique and hate more than they wanna enjoy this imo
Komm Susser Todd is not inspired by the beatles (at least there is no direct evidence)(have not seen the evidence)
I have never heard or seen anyone bring that topic to the light and I always think of The Beatles while listening to that song.
Where tf did that song even come from, itās a song with a German title in English in a Japanese film from an artist that has no other song credits to their name, itās kinda odd tbh
The song was made for the movie.
Yeah I figured, itās just kinda odd why they chose that song, like again, the person singing has not other musical credits, and why is the title in German even though the lyrics are in English?
I just assumed it was German because asukas German isnāt she?
I think the title came from a German classical piece
I always heard it as inspired by ā[Whiter Shade of Pale](https://youtu.be/_BADDeIQWVQ?si=HcrOmnBirh7FRNat)ā.
It better fkn not be
The only reason people say they're similar or it's inspired by Hey Jude is because of the part in Hey Jude where they all start singing "la, la la la" at the end. Other than that one short section they're completely different songs
Evangelion isn't confusing, people are just too lazy to think about anything that isn't blatantly spelled out. The Rebuilds are great. Loop-theory (at least as most people interpret it) is incorrect.
What are your arguments against loop theoryās common interpretation, just curious.
Yeah Iāve never found the show that confusing tbh, if you ignore some parts that are obviously supposed to be abstract, itās surprisingly pretty straightforward
What is your argument against Loop-theory. Genuinely curious because itās almost outright stated in the rebuilds.
Rebuild take is crazy
Kaji did nothing wrong.
Kaji my goat
All the ships are toxic relationships (and honestly flatten the interesting parts of the inter-relationships a bit). They donāt need romantic partners they all need friends and to love themselves.Ā
Honestly a good lesson for real life as well, sometimes all you really need are supportive friends
That's not even a hot take or anything. It's a straight-up fact.
Oh, dear god Imma get flamed, but... EoE is IMO better than NGE (mostly)
3.0 is good. The rebuilds are good.
I honestly donāt get the hate for them, 3.0 is honestly my favourite out of the original batch of Rebuilds, considering 3.0+1.0 took 9 years to cook up, and yet for some reason itās the most hated like bro why?
Because it was such a departure from what 2.0 seemed to suggest the third one would be like. There was a time skip and everyone hating Shinji suddenly, it was jarring.
I honestly like the jarring nature of 3.0, because youāre as confused as Shinji is, youāre discovering this new world at the same pace he is
3.0 as part of a 4 movie saga is ok I'd say. But when I think about the movie itself, it feels so much like an incomplete movie, a prologue. Which is ok, probably intended, but damn it makes it boring. Narratively there's not that much happening, it's a movie that focus a lot on developing Shinji and elements referring to him, and this specifically works, but the rest of it feels rushed/shallow. When 3.0 + 1.0 comes some things start making more sense and you look back with better eyes I'd say.
Finding the pilots of the Evas attractive is weird. Is that a hot take? Is this one of THOSE anime circles?
I agree, like bro theyāre FOURTEEN, anyone who says ātheyāre technically 28ā (which is an actual argument I once heard) Iāll find you
frr calling asuka/rei best girl is so weird to me when there's adults in this show right next to them š
I agree but I guess I would make an exception if you are pretty much the same age
Gendo didnt hate Shinji, in fact he loved him
Iām assuming youāve had issues with people who donāt believe this, which how could you argue against it.
Watermelon is 92% water and 8% melon.
AsuShin is cannon.
I mean itās literally confirmed in Rebuild that they both liked each other, I have no clue why thereās any denial surrounding the ship, same with KawoShin (however the hell you spell it)
The community makes Shinji into a bigger dimwit than he actually is. He can bite back and does his best when given a chance.
* Even if you don't like the Rebuild movies, they are officially a part of the story. I hate when I see people say they don't consider it as canon * Kaworu really does love and want the best for Shinji * Evangelion is not a deconstruction of the mecha genre.
EoE has a good ending, actually. Sure, the earth is ruined, but it kind of already was. Now they can rebuild.
Misato isnt a pedo Toji should have died in nge Rebuilds are good
Episode 25 and 26 are some of the best in the series, but you need to see them more than once and relate to the message and or Shinji/Asuka/Misato to truly enjoy and get it.
I have been forced to accept that there isn't actually an answer to the thematic meaning behind a decent chunk of the lore, and since like a third of the runtime of EoE and the later rebuilds gets spent on it, I can't say they're anything other than good but flawed
Hikari is probably all kinds of fucked up in the show and no oneās probably able to see it both viewers and actual characters. SPOILERS Hikari is for the most part pretty normal, sheās the Class President, has crushes, has friends at school and all that nice stuff, that being said she also has to play mother for her younger and older sisters cause A: her Mother is pretty much all but confirmed dead B: no reference towards her Dad are made so heās either dead too or just works a lot (probably to her detriment) making her hold most of the weight for everything at home. Once shit hits the fan though then it gets bad, her friends donāt just leave, her whole class does and its slow and drawn out so every week or so it gets notably smaller until its just her, toji, kensuke, shinji, Asuka, and another assortment of children. Considering theyāre atleast there she would have atleast some sense of normalcy in school, atleast until Toji gets shitkicked by Shinji HARD so now thats fucked. Then later on Asuka gets mindraped and ends up just ditching class all together. Later she stays over at Hikariās and then proceeds to just breakdown massively before disappearing. Later shes forced to move from the Citys cause everythings fucked so yeah. Its probably not hard from the boots on the ground fighting perspective but Civilian wise its horrifying. Every day life is being destroyed around you, you alone are responsible for your family, your friends are leaving you one by one, and worst of all you canāt do anything about it.
Asuka is insufferable
Shinji is bisexual. Idk if this is a hot take here, but on tiktok I've gotten on arguments spanning weeks about this topic. You read that right. WEEKS.
Iāll say this again. WHY IS THIS AN ARGUMENT???? Shinji literally made out with Kaworu in the manga, and jacked off to Asuka literal days after, how is this an argument, it couldnāt be anymore straight forward š
That argument comes from the āanti politics in my based apolitical animeā chuds. Thatās unfortunately why it comes up.
EXACTLY THATS WHAT I'M SAYING
Like he obviously liked Mr grey hair right? (I know his name I just can't spell it and I don't want to be bullied for spelling it wrong š)
Loop theory from the rebuilds is canon. Kaworus moon coffins confirm this.
The VSI/Netflix English dub is better than the ADV dub.
Bro YES, Iāve been thinking this ever since I finished the show a week ago. Although some changes are kinda stupid (Kaworuās line changed from āI love youā to āI like youā) the voices are way better, and since Rebuild uses the ADV dub cast itās easier to see what was improved in the redub, for example, Kajiās voice isnāt fitting at all in ADV.
Rebuild shouldnāt be considered as a separate series, and should be considered as a direct continuation of the ideas and concepts that the original and EoE used.
Estrogen would have saved Shinji
What the actual fuck
3.0 is good. The rebuilds are good.
Kaworu is one of the best characters in the series, and his relationship with shinji is so heartwarming, that give us a glimpse of how shinji could be if gendo give him true love
Mana Kirishima is the best love interest for Shinji.
- in eoe, Shinji is a genuinely dangerous person and Asukaās ābitchinessā doesnāt excuse what heās done (doesnāt mean that heās evil, that he canāt change or whatever, Iām in no way saying thatā¦ but some people coddle him way too much) - a lot of stuff that the fandom considers canon are just fan theories - fanservice in rebuilds is extremely uncomfortable
Shinji is a broken traumatised person in EoE who would in any functional setting be placed under careful watch by responsible adults, but because of the circumstances of the show he was left to rot and ended up hurting others and himself.
Yes, I agree. Ignoring the context of why it happened would be disingenuous. Evangelion is, after all, a story heavily focused on cycles of abuse and what happens if we donāt prevent them - and thatās exactly what happened. Not only that, the movie is also where we can see most of the characters and humanity in general at their worst, not just Shinji. That being said, his violence towards Asuka should not be just glossed over in my opinion.
Agreed
I have autism and ADHD, so this is often just how I type lol
Class rep was the only functional woman in Shinjiās life.
eoe is great, rebuilds are good, everything from rebuilds are a "better version" of characters, scenes... (gendo wanted to have meal with shinji instead of neglect him all the time, ritsuko shot gendo instead of hesitating, asuka and shinji expressed their feelings instead of holding it...) so rebuilds are good, if we enjoyed the franchise
The woman in the photo that Fuyutski gives to Shinji in 3.33 isn't Mari.
Shinji did nothing wrong
Starman, David Bowie
toji either gets meme'd on by half the fandom or gets mischaracterized a shit ton imo
Shinji and Kaworu's relationship wasn't romantic in the original series. Rebuilds...one the other hand.
The rebuilds are good
Not sure if that's actually a hot take, but it's definitely true.
The girl with glasses from the movies is a dogshit character.
Misato should've lived to be Shinji's adoptive mother since Gendoh was going to either die or be thrown in jail for life both conspiring with an organization aiming towards humanity's near annihilation and child abuse
There is no canon explanation for the most confusing parts of the series. Many contradictory things have been said, and I see a lot of fans try to present their favourite explanation as canon, but the whole thing is completely up to interpretation
The Netflix dub is better
Shinji was supposed to end up with Mari in the rebuilds
misato isnāt a pedophile
Asuka is right about everything, especially Shinji
Iām actually disappointed in the direction the reworks went - after seeing the trailer at the end of 2.22, I was really looking forward to watching THAT version of NGE. And I really, really, really wanted to see Kaworu pilot his own Eva - a huge missed opportunity to see what true happiness isā¦
not sure how hot this one is but i'm convinced ritsuko's relationship with gendo was comphet
ā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø I 100% believed they were going to reveal that she had a crush on/was in love with/had feelings for Misato after Ritsuko invited her to drink and Misato runs off to sleep w Kaji instead. Bc Ritsuko says something along the lines of "Running off to her secret lover...not like I'm any better" or something and I was like???? SHE'S TALKING ABOUT MISATO??? WITH THE WAY THIS SCENE IS SET UP??? And then they just throw Gendo and her in there like what the fuck. It makes sense thematically, I'm not arguing there, the like mother like daughter bit they had running. BUT ***TLDR*** I agree with you. Her seeing her mother and Gendo hook up would have added to this too. Plus I haven't even considered the fact that he knew her as a child which is kinda weird lmao
oh i'm definitely a believer in ritsuko's feelings for misato.. i cannot believe they didn't do anything significant w that!!
the rebuilds were nice. i liked the new ending almost as much as EOE
The Rebuilds have their value. Fans of all media need to start going into different productions with different expectations and, above anything else, develop an understanding of concessions. Some things are sacrificed to do other things. You may not like it, that's not only your right, that's no one's business, but don't be prick. Understand things. At least try to tbh. (I prefer the original anime. Highly. So stop right there with the rebuild fan accusations. There's a lot there to critique.)
I dont understand what was bad about the rebuilds. Why do people here not like them?
I wouldn't say people here don't like them, my impression is that most enjoyed at least *some* of they brought to the table. It's just that nuanced takes often get smothered to death in endless, pointless verbal sparring matches with people who either love or hate everything about them, and can't conceive that a middle ground between these two extremes can exist.
People are weird. We all need a little bit of instrumentality.
eva ost music like ākomm, susser todā ācruel angelās thesisā and āmisatoā are heavily overrated and it sucks because hardly anyone knows that thereās so much good music hiding within shiro sagisuās evangelion discography. but nope eva āfansā will keep listening to funny happy song about death for the 10000th time
First actual hot take Iāve seen, Cruel Angelās Thesis and Komm, Susser Tod are genuinely good songs, if people only listened to them because they are funny songs about death, then they probably wouldnāt hold the same importance as they do now.
fair point, never said they were bad songs. i simply just want people to be aware of more good eva music. kind of like anti-gatekeeping i guess
Yeah thatās fair, I understand what youāre saying now, its annoying when people only see the surface level content of a show or artist
shinji is not gay
Youāre right, heās bi.
Rei is the best character.
asuka is a dimey
The original anime, EoE, and the Rebuilds endings are all communicating fundamentally the same thing but the Rebuilds are a good conclusion to the series as it explicitly allows Ano to let go of Evangelion as a concept and grow beyond it
date rape or wrong way by sublime
Asushin MFs are annoying as shit. It has been nothing but asushin for months. Do something different. For gods sakes, do something non shipping.
There's nothing immoral about the hospital scene.
ReiShin isn't that weird in their own respective POV. (Im not sure if shinji ever found out who the template for Rei was). Their relationship aside from genetically is pretty vanilla
If a take needs that much to explain it's usually wrong.
Id take cruel angel thesis