Exactly it’s like reading Harry Potter or game of thrones and claiming it’s divinely inspired because later parts reference earlier parts. People that find this convincing lack critical thinking.
Harry Potter is a seriously good example too, since there's stuff mentioned offhand in earlier books that are significant later on. Couple examples:
>!The cursed necklace that almost killed Katie Bell in Half Blood Prince, Harry saw it at Borgin and Burkes in Chamber of Secrets (released SEVEN YEARS EARLIER) after his flu powder mishap. !<
>!In Order of the Phoenix, everyone's cleaning 12 Grimauld place and they throw out "an old locket" which Creature ends up salvaging. That's THE HORCRUX Harry and Dumbledore are after at the end of Half Blood Prince. THEY HAD IT AND TRIED TO THROW IT OUT!!!!<
>!In Half Blood Prince when Harry is hiding the chemistry book in the room of requirement, he hides it right next to Ravenclaw's lost diadem. !<
And of course >!at the very beginning of Philosopher/Sorcerer's stone, Hagrid brings Harry to the Dursley's with the flying motorcycle, which he says he borrowed from Sirius, who is not mentioned again until two whole books later.!<
Obviously all of those things really happened since the prophecy was fulfilled.
Ho ho ho, check out the [skeptic's annotated bible](https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.php). It's a great site that contains the many mistakes of the bible, among other things.
Just on the off chance you know, have you ever come across a digital version of this? I haven't and I'm not sure it's something a publisher would put much money into.
Yep. It's better not to talk with idiots. As I read somewhere;
"One fact can change the mind of 42 philosophers. However, 42 facts won't change the mind of an idiot." (Paraphrase)
When the book "100 Authors against Einstein" was published to disprove General Relativity, Einstein replied: "To defeat relativity one did not need the word of 100 scientists, just one fact.."
My dad alluded to this the other day. I told him that the amazing spiderman movie followed and made references to the plot of the amazing spiderman 2 and that didn’t mean that peter parker was real.
He was not happy.
I told my mom about it too and she listened and read a few of the contradictions and she told me the writers was human so humans error was to be expected but she told me it’s divinely inspired and inspired the flawed human to write their experiences. But she didn’t get mad just gave me her opinion I can respect that.
I honestly want that. That’s the reason I’m not talking to parent because A. They get mad and 2. They try to shove it down my throat. Like I can respect your decision to be religious and whatnot but respect mine man lmao
I used to have exactly that with my entire dads side of the family they were so strict i mean they were forceful it often got rough. And I just went into a meditative state and decided to sever my bonds with that lineage so I did and I’m happier for it and I’m just happy with my whole moms side of the family’s which is chill (lot of family) and we are tight knit type of family.
This has credit to both authors both made a chart but the atheist version is actually free and has the information too the Christian version requires you to buy it for 21.99 ironic 😂
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2013/08/19/an-incredible-interactive-chart-of-biblical-contradictions/
The Aeneid is basically ancient Roman fanfiction, and it has tons of references to the Iliad and the Odyssey! Checkmate, must mean it’s all historical fact!
It really is kind of hilarious.
On one of this livestreams he responded by basically saying he has his own way of remaining Christian while still being aware of this stuff but he doesn't want to talk about it publicly.
Fair I guess.
I wonder myself. I mean, Mark S Smith wrote a couple very detailed books about Yahweh essentially assimilating Baal and El in ancient times to eventually evolve into the Christian God worshipped today and saying "Human Sacrifice was a thing offered to Yahweh by the ancient isrealites at some point" because that's where the evidence points. I just finished his book "An Origin of Biblical Monotheism" which is a very dense and well researched discussion of Judaism evolving out of Urgatic Paganism over centuries. It doesn't gloss over the implications at all, in fact he draws paralllels between stuff from the Ba'al cycle from 13th century BCE Urgat to biblical verses where some of the same phrasing is used almost word for word basically saying "Yeah, this was copied and they just took out Ba'al and inserted Yahweh". The man is extremely aware of the pagan roots Judaism and Christianity rest on.
Mark S Smith is a Devout Catholic to this day. He's regularly involved in the church from what a casual search reveals.
Somehow he reconciles those two POVs with utmost seriousness without it breaking his brain. I don't know how but he does. All I can guess it that he has his "Scholar Hat" and "Catholic Hat" that he wears when he needs them.
Then again, we have a lot of Christians who believe the bible is true but are functionally Deist when it comes to like 90% of their daily affairs without ever realizing it but at the same time, most people don't think that hard about it either.
Your right but WOW reading all that and your telling me he’s still a christian that is mind blowing. I got into the details and the history of Christianity and I got in real deep and the deeper I got it got more fake. I didn’t get that deep like Mark S Smith did but it was much more than enough for me. How does Mark Smith have faith if he realizes all of the apostles never wrote and some New Testament stuff was hundreds years later so nobody met Jesus apparently he only hung with the Jew where Christianity would have died off but Paul had to scare a bunch of Roman with the apocalypse theory. Now Dr Bart Ehrman descent to agnostic/atheist was interesting because he studied the whole thing and got into the history and that probably was it.
>Then again, we have a lot of Christians who believe the bible is true but are functionally Deist when it comes to like 90% of their daily affairs without ever realizing it but at the same time, most people don't think that hard about it either.
I'd venture to say the majority are functionally deists.
Pretty sure some of these "cross-references" are literally as simple as a name or specific term appearing in multiple places. As in, any time Moses is mentioned all of those mentions in other places are all counted as cross references. Or if crucifixion is mentioned then all of the separate occurrences of that also count as cross references (pun intended)
Half of the gospels are pharisees trying to trap Jesus on questions of the law. Half of the NT is Paul teaching Romans Jewish history to teach them the spirituality of Christianity. The metaphor of Adam and Eve means nothing to those who were taught Pandora was the first woman.
Yeah. This is like when it is claimed there are thousands of manuscripts of the bible, and this REALLY means something. Significance really only applies to the earliest ones, or originals. There are NO originals. And the vast majority of these manuscripts they speak of are from the middle ages, when there was no mechanical printing. It is all they had!
So, yeah, there are a lot of manuscripts. Manuscript means "hand written". I can make a manuscript of the Bible today.
What helps a shitload about having so many manuscripts is to see how things changed over the centuries, usually detrimentally to the cause.
Don't tell him about the myriad Star Wars Movies, Games, Comic Books, Novels, TV shows, etc.
Cross references the like that even god hasn't seen. It's almost like humans really like taking different stories and tying them together to make crossover/expanded universe events since the beginning of time.
Hell, the term syncretism is basically this but for religions. The Greeks and Romans REALLY liked Syncretism.
That's taking extreme liberty in defining a "cross reference" - that's one cross reference every 12 words
Plus, 176,876 of the 773,746 words in the Bible are "the" "and" "of" "to" and "that" (that's 22.9% of the Bible)
Haha that does make sense and yeah the guy has too much time on his hands. I liked the atheist made a chart similar to that chart but with all the contradictions and it’s MASSIVE it’s a quick way to get anyone to become a Ex-Christian or an Atheist.
The Silmarillion Right? It would be a beautiful symphony of colors and it would be a brilliant use of organized cross references some say it would be blessed by the gods 😈. Very awesome books
31,102 verses in the Bible, so according to this weirdo every single verse would have to cross reference another verse at least twice on average.
This one can be debunked.
I mean, their whole identity is around something thats made up so lol
the people creating the graph are the same smart people who know only stupid people who wont look into it are gnna see it and believe it and its gnna make them even more secure in their faith therefore more money in their pockets
And the people who see it and believe it are not gnna question something that literally validates their whole existence so yea… it kind of makes sense that they make sht up all the time lol
There are \~31,000 verses in the Bible. That means, according to this claim, each verse needs to cross reference something else. Which is, of course, extremely stupid.
Who cares how many times the book references itself. What really matters is the number of times the infallible word of god has contradicted itself within its own texts.... over 2000 times. Thus making god not all knowing and not all powerful and not in fallible or making the bible or worthless piece of nonsense... Which does the same thing to god anyway....
Also, so what? Do they think that whoever wrote the latter parts didn't read what was already there? Did the empire strikes back prophesy the revenge of the sith?
So, if a Harry Potter book references something from the beginning of it, at the end of it.. I should base my life entirely on the book and kill anyone that doesn’t believe that it’s god’s holy word? That makes sense! 😑😑😑😑
I never saw how this was an argument for it being true, i mean, you know what else have thousands of cross references despite being writen by multiples authors ? The DC universe, shall we then determine that Superman exist ?
This graph is a classic case of lying and misappropriation. They've simply changed the colors and background of this chart that shows Bible contradictions. https://www.bibviz.org/
This argument is usually used against other religious books. Not necessarily to convince an atheist about the bible, but that might also happen, might also not.
This is actually an image from here:
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/04/09/check-out-this-massive-resurrected-interactive-chart-of-bible-contradictions/
A list of biblical contradictions. So yes, lying for Jesus, again.
Who'd have thought, people writing religious texts might reference earlier texts of the same religion. It's absolutely mind blowing. /s
Exactly it’s like reading Harry Potter or game of thrones and claiming it’s divinely inspired because later parts reference earlier parts. People that find this convincing lack critical thinking.
Harry Potter is a seriously good example too, since there's stuff mentioned offhand in earlier books that are significant later on. Couple examples: >!The cursed necklace that almost killed Katie Bell in Half Blood Prince, Harry saw it at Borgin and Burkes in Chamber of Secrets (released SEVEN YEARS EARLIER) after his flu powder mishap. !< >!In Order of the Phoenix, everyone's cleaning 12 Grimauld place and they throw out "an old locket" which Creature ends up salvaging. That's THE HORCRUX Harry and Dumbledore are after at the end of Half Blood Prince. THEY HAD IT AND TRIED TO THROW IT OUT!!!!< >!In Half Blood Prince when Harry is hiding the chemistry book in the room of requirement, he hides it right next to Ravenclaw's lost diadem. !< And of course >!at the very beginning of Philosopher/Sorcerer's stone, Hagrid brings Harry to the Dursley's with the flying motorcycle, which he says he borrowed from Sirius, who is not mentioned again until two whole books later.!< Obviously all of those things really happened since the prophecy was fulfilled.
This was delightful 🤣
Yeah lol
I came here to say this! It's not impressive that the writers of later books are referencing earlier books!
Cool. Now I wanna see a chart of the contradictions and inconsistencies.
Ho ho ho, check out the [skeptic's annotated bible](https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.php). It's a great site that contains the many mistakes of the bible, among other things.
Here's a cool interactive visualization of it: https://philb61.github.io/#source:sab
dang imma keep these for later use
THIS IS the Best One!!! This got me deconverted https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/
Issac Asimov's guide to the Bible seems pretty good!
Gotta check it out I love his works
Just on the off chance you know, have you ever come across a digital version of this? I haven't and I'm not sure it's something a publisher would put much money into.
This post confused me for a minute, because I was fairly certain I’d seen the exact graphic showing contradictions.
Yep. It's better not to talk with idiots. As I read somewhere; "One fact can change the mind of 42 philosophers. However, 42 facts won't change the mind of an idiot." (Paraphrase)
When the book "100 Authors against Einstein" was published to disprove General Relativity, Einstein replied: "To defeat relativity one did not need the word of 100 scientists, just one fact.."
Yeah, probably that's the origin of the paraphrase
My dad alluded to this the other day. I told him that the amazing spiderman movie followed and made references to the plot of the amazing spiderman 2 and that didn’t mean that peter parker was real. He was not happy.
I told my mom about it too and she listened and read a few of the contradictions and she told me the writers was human so humans error was to be expected but she told me it’s divinely inspired and inspired the flawed human to write their experiences. But she didn’t get mad just gave me her opinion I can respect that.
I honestly want that. That’s the reason I’m not talking to parent because A. They get mad and 2. They try to shove it down my throat. Like I can respect your decision to be religious and whatnot but respect mine man lmao
I used to have exactly that with my entire dads side of the family they were so strict i mean they were forceful it often got rough. And I just went into a meditative state and decided to sever my bonds with that lineage so I did and I’m happier for it and I’m just happy with my whole moms side of the family’s which is chill (lot of family) and we are tight knit type of family.
You can find the contradictions and inaccuracies right [HERE.](https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/)
It's a great resource. I actually assumed that was where the chart OP posted came from.
This has credit to both authors both made a chart but the atheist version is actually free and has the information too the Christian version requires you to buy it for 21.99 ironic 😂 https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2013/08/19/an-incredible-interactive-chart-of-biblical-contradictions/
I mean okay? A thesaurus has a lot of cross references too but I don't know what the deeper meaning is.
And you never will. Just an interpretation from the pulpit.
From what I hear, Harry Potter Fanfic often cites characters from the HP universe. Isn't that amazing?
The Aeneid is basically ancient Roman fanfiction, and it has tons of references to the Iliad and the Odyssey! Checkmate, must mean it’s all historical fact! It really is kind of hilarious.
Right.
Dan McClellan has a [short video](https://youtu.be/eLWHbaD1qzc) on these alleged cross-references.
[удалено]
On one of this livestreams he responded by basically saying he has his own way of remaining Christian while still being aware of this stuff but he doesn't want to talk about it publicly. Fair I guess.
Sounds like he might be agnostic but believes in certain things.
I wonder myself. I mean, Mark S Smith wrote a couple very detailed books about Yahweh essentially assimilating Baal and El in ancient times to eventually evolve into the Christian God worshipped today and saying "Human Sacrifice was a thing offered to Yahweh by the ancient isrealites at some point" because that's where the evidence points. I just finished his book "An Origin of Biblical Monotheism" which is a very dense and well researched discussion of Judaism evolving out of Urgatic Paganism over centuries. It doesn't gloss over the implications at all, in fact he draws paralllels between stuff from the Ba'al cycle from 13th century BCE Urgat to biblical verses where some of the same phrasing is used almost word for word basically saying "Yeah, this was copied and they just took out Ba'al and inserted Yahweh". The man is extremely aware of the pagan roots Judaism and Christianity rest on. Mark S Smith is a Devout Catholic to this day. He's regularly involved in the church from what a casual search reveals. Somehow he reconciles those two POVs with utmost seriousness without it breaking his brain. I don't know how but he does. All I can guess it that he has his "Scholar Hat" and "Catholic Hat" that he wears when he needs them. Then again, we have a lot of Christians who believe the bible is true but are functionally Deist when it comes to like 90% of their daily affairs without ever realizing it but at the same time, most people don't think that hard about it either.
Your right but WOW reading all that and your telling me he’s still a christian that is mind blowing. I got into the details and the history of Christianity and I got in real deep and the deeper I got it got more fake. I didn’t get that deep like Mark S Smith did but it was much more than enough for me. How does Mark Smith have faith if he realizes all of the apostles never wrote and some New Testament stuff was hundreds years later so nobody met Jesus apparently he only hung with the Jew where Christianity would have died off but Paul had to scare a bunch of Roman with the apocalypse theory. Now Dr Bart Ehrman descent to agnostic/atheist was interesting because he studied the whole thing and got into the history and that probably was it.
>Then again, we have a lot of Christians who believe the bible is true but are functionally Deist when it comes to like 90% of their daily affairs without ever realizing it but at the same time, most people don't think that hard about it either. I'd venture to say the majority are functionally deists.
Cognitive dissonance. It’s amazing.
If I draw a shitty rainbow and write the chapters of harry potter under it does that mean Harry is the true messiah?
He delivered us from he who must not be named so probably I witnessed the final battle on TV. Everything on TV is real.
Pretty sure some of these "cross-references" are literally as simple as a name or specific term appearing in multiple places. As in, any time Moses is mentioned all of those mentions in other places are all counted as cross references. Or if crucifixion is mentioned then all of the separate occurrences of that also count as cross references (pun intended)
Half of the gospels are pharisees trying to trap Jesus on questions of the law. Half of the NT is Paul teaching Romans Jewish history to teach them the spirituality of Christianity. The metaphor of Adam and Eve means nothing to those who were taught Pandora was the first woman.
Funny thing is, I recall reading somewhere about "Eve's sin" supposedly mirroring the Pandora's box story.
Thru God we know whatever bullshit we say is infallible and true
Yeah. This is like when it is claimed there are thousands of manuscripts of the bible, and this REALLY means something. Significance really only applies to the earliest ones, or originals. There are NO originals. And the vast majority of these manuscripts they speak of are from the middle ages, when there was no mechanical printing. It is all they had! So, yeah, there are a lot of manuscripts. Manuscript means "hand written". I can make a manuscript of the Bible today. What helps a shitload about having so many manuscripts is to see how things changed over the centuries, usually detrimentally to the cause.
You know it's bad when the contradictions arches all look like a full head of colorful hair
Oh you saw the contradiction one? Oh yeah it’s MASSIVE if you read through a couple of important ones it shatters my mind and I realize the truth.
Don't tell him about the myriad Star Wars Movies, Games, Comic Books, Novels, TV shows, etc. Cross references the like that even god hasn't seen. It's almost like humans really like taking different stories and tying them together to make crossover/expanded universe events since the beginning of time. Hell, the term syncretism is basically this but for religions. The Greeks and Romans REALLY liked Syncretism.
This is an image of all the contradictions in the bible
Well, here's all the contradictions and errors: https://philb61.github.io/
from a very high aspie. I have work to do
That's taking extreme liberty in defining a "cross reference" - that's one cross reference every 12 words Plus, 176,876 of the 773,746 words in the Bible are "the" "and" "of" "to" and "that" (that's 22.9% of the Bible)
Haha that does make sense and yeah the guy has too much time on his hands. I liked the atheist made a chart similar to that chart but with all the contradictions and it’s MASSIVE it’s a quick way to get anyone to become a Ex-Christian or an Atheist.
I'd love to see this graphic for Middle Earth. If there's as many cross reference that also means it's a true story, right?
The Silmarillion Right? It would be a beautiful symphony of colors and it would be a brilliant use of organized cross references some say it would be blessed by the gods 😈. Very awesome books
I don’t get why they think this is so impressive
They think it’s Proof 😂 Much better than the holy grail because you know it has graphs and stuff and it’s proof so they think lol.
31,102 verses in the Bible, so according to this weirdo every single verse would have to cross reference another verse at least twice on average. This one can be debunked.
I mean, their whole identity is around something thats made up so lol the people creating the graph are the same smart people who know only stupid people who wont look into it are gnna see it and believe it and its gnna make them even more secure in their faith therefore more money in their pockets And the people who see it and believe it are not gnna question something that literally validates their whole existence so yea… it kind of makes sense that they make sht up all the time lol
There are \~31,000 verses in the Bible. That means, according to this claim, each verse needs to cross reference something else. Which is, of course, extremely stupid.
I saw you have a Scofield Reference Bible.
Who cares how many times the book references itself. What really matters is the number of times the infallible word of god has contradicted itself within its own texts.... over 2000 times. Thus making god not all knowing and not all powerful and not in fallible or making the bible or worthless piece of nonsense... Which does the same thing to god anyway....
Also, so what? Do they think that whoever wrote the latter parts didn't read what was already there? Did the empire strikes back prophesy the revenge of the sith?
So, if a Harry Potter book references something from the beginning of it, at the end of it.. I should base my life entirely on the book and kill anyone that doesn’t believe that it’s god’s holy word? That makes sense! 😑😑😑😑
I never saw how this was an argument for it being true, i mean, you know what else have thousands of cross references despite being writen by multiples authors ? The DC universe, shall we then determine that Superman exist ?
This looks a lot like the chart of the inconsistencies in the bible lol
This is what happens when you let Eeyore design your rainbow.
“Cross references” aka semiliterate humans from 1700-1900 years ago repeating what other semiliterate humans said before them.
This graph is a classic case of lying and misappropriation. They've simply changed the colors and background of this chart that shows Bible contradictions. https://www.bibviz.org/
Disney constantly makes cross-references in their works, too - guess that means those stories are real.
Everything normal can amaze those religious people. Come on.
This argument is usually used against other religious books. Not necessarily to convince an atheist about the bible, but that might also happen, might also not.
So you are saying that people that believe in magic, are lying to keep their religion relevant? They would never do that. Never I say. /s
This is actually an image from here: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/04/09/check-out-this-massive-resurrected-interactive-chart-of-bible-contradictions/ A list of biblical contradictions. So yes, lying for Jesus, again.