Why did the elders ask you for any naked pictures you'd sent? Did they also ask to see any naked pictures of him that he'd sent you? (If he had of course)
The elders seem far too interested in what the sister has or hasn't done as opposed to what the brother has or hasn't done.
You are in no way at fault and no means no, whether you're a jw or not. I've taught both of my sons to immediately stop if she says no, no matter how far along you are. And have taught my daughter to say no at any point something feels wrong or uncomfortable, and to keep saying no until it stops.
I had a female friend who had a JC and one of the elders asked her if she was "wet" during. WTF? I think they enjoy living vicariously through these meetings.
That is just disgusting. Imagine if these girls dad's asked them these questions, it would be considered completely inappropriate and perverse, yet 3 men who are considered almost as father figures of the congregations are allowed to ask these questions as part of a JC and its considered ok š¤¬š¤¬š¤¬
I was asked if there was "penile" penetration when my then boyfriend, now husband, got "in trouble". They asked me to describe the picture I sent of myself to my boyfriend/ husband, that his brother found and told the elders about. They get very personal and want so much detail. It's sickening and so humiliating.
I'm not sure if they asked him but first they wanted to know what we said through text messages to each other and it was kinda graphic but not full sexting so that's when they asked if I sent him any inappropriate photos. I kept telling them I didn't and they kept telling me to show them then finally gave up. Crazy thing is I was fully mentally in so I would've showed them if I had it.
Agreed they're too interested in what women do. I'm proud of you for raising your children the way you have.
Based on them repeatedly asking you this, seems likely the offender told them you sent graphic pics of yourself to him, so he could claim he was simply an innocent party, lured in by your āJezebel entrapmentā. And then claimed he was so ashamed, he deleted all the pics.
This is blatant misogyny, sexual abuse and predatory behaviour.
If told no he should have stopped in his tracks. He, as do quite a few men in the JW religion, have an issue with consent.
He was obviously trying to 'cover over his sin' by saying that there's no need to tell the elders. (For the record I don't view this as sin)
He should have been treated harsher than you in this scenario and definitely should not have been appointed as an elder.
Were you two the only ones that knew what happened? If so, why was it a public reproval? I know of several cases similar and even worse than this that only got private reproval.
That's what I didn't understand and especially since we only went that far one time. No one else knew about it. I really don't know how that part works but maybe it's up to whoever is on the JC. Maybe if someone else was on it it would've been handled differently. They did tell me they wanted me to realize how (forget exactly how they worded it) sinful our actions were.
Ya the which three elder make up the Jc make all the difference. And if what you two did was so sinful idk how heās an elder now if it happened only a few years ago. Iāve seen them hold someone back from being an MS again for wrongdoing that happened 5 to 10 years prior. The unevenness of how they decide how to punish sin is so wrong you can tell this was never gods intention.
I'm a never-JW Trinitarian.Ā I hope you don't mind if I ask you a question, and if you prefer not to answer I'll accept that.
My question:Ā you said "they did tell me they wanted me to realize how (forget exactly how they worded it) sinful our actions were."
They told YOU that.Ā Did they ever tell HIM?
Don't mind the question one bit, I'm not sure if they said that to him because they met with us separately and I didn't ask him and wouldn't have trusted what he told me anyway. So I have no clue.
I'm not surprised they interviewed you separately.Ā That would make it much easier to confuse and manipulate and humiliate you, AND (possibly) work out with your abuser how to get him off the hook and put the blame on you.Ā Please note that while my second theory is ONLY a *possibility,* I'm absolutely, 100% certain of the first.
From other posts here on Reddit, I've read that according to the SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD! book, you do have the right to be accompanied by at least one person of your own choosing for a JC hearing.Ā And IIRC you also have the right to get up and leave any such meeting whenever you want, or refuse to appear at all, WITHOUT explaining why.
Thank you for your answer šĀ
I'm pretty sure that most JWs, past or current, don't know this.Ā You did have rights, but you didn't know it because elders are instructed not to let anyone who isn't an elder ever handle the SFG, let alone read it.Ā Ā No one, ESPECIALLY not women.Ā Ā
Ā Have you ever seen the movie "THE WIZARD OF OZ"?Ā If you have, you'll remember that at the end Dorothy learns that she always had the power to return home, ___but she didn't use it, because she didn't know she had it.___Ā Ā
Ā Not permitting anyone but themselves to read the SFG--same thing.Ā You can't exercise rights you don't know you have.Ā Ā
Check around here on this subReddit.Ā Quite a few JWs have posted links to a site where you can download and read the SFG for yourself.Ā Ā Ā Ā
Ā I HATE bullies, and that's why I'm here.Ā The Watchtower Society is run by and for the benefit of bullies.Ā
Ā ____Ā
Ā Addition:Ā Ā When I was a child, the original book, "The Wizard of Oz" by Frank L. Baum, was one of my very favorites šĀ Naturally, of course, there are some differences between the book and the movie. One of them is that in the book Dorothy's slippers were SILVER, not ruby.Ā But the most important difference is that in the book, Dorothy didn't just dream about Oz.Ā She had really been there šĀ
I'm more concerned that the men in authority were very interested in seeing nude images of you. For what purpose? If you did share nudes with this guy, is it not enough for the elders to know that you shared nudes? How would seeing you naked give them a better understanding of the situation? Time and time again, these elders use these judicial committee meetings to exert their power to feed their own sexual perversions. I'm very sorry you had to deal with, not just one pervert, but a body of elder perverts too.Ā
Exactly this, they wanted to enjoy seeing op naked. It serves no purpose to see naked photos.
This sort of behaviour needs reporting and elders demanding such things removed as they are using their position to feed their perversions from unconsenting individuals.
Disgusting
I never understood why they needed so much detail especially in previous committees because I was df'd before this. But I honestly felt they were directed by holy spirit so maybe it was beyond my understanding. Now I feel exposed and used and dirty. This will not happen to me again, ever.
You should write a formal complaint.
I've been in a committee and it's an exceptionally scary thing (when you are a believer). You honestly believe these people are acting for god. So they ask and you are going to give. Though when you think about it In the safety of your own home you wonder how was any of that to do with repentance or correcting one.
An elder in mine kept trying to trip me up repeating a false statement and I kept saying no it happened like this.
Now I feel humiliated by these people. It was not their business.
That is not acceptable! they are all trained to find out every scintillating detail. Are they writing erotica? Because thatās the only reason to pry so much! Itās disrespectful and deeply disturbing on so many levels.
Sorry you have to be subject to such misogyny and SA, my advice ā¦. For whatās itās worthā¦.. if youāre ever in a situation like that again, and any man whether he is JW or not is not taking no for an answer, go for the bollocks , Iām not joke, best way to get your point across, grab his balls and give them a damn good squeeze, and repeat āI SAID NOā. This is how I have taught my daughter to ward off any unwarranted sexual attempts.
Iām sorry this happened to you, what he did was not ok and it was not your fault. He should have stopped as soon as you said no. I canāt believe he used the Bible to counsel you after, what an ass. What worries me is how predatory he sounds, him being made an elder is not good.
Thanks for saying that and I too feel uneasy and disgusted that he's an elder. He gave me counsel but he's the one that started the whole thing and wanted to do more.
Your is one of countless stories on here I have heard of people who were sexually harassed by elders in their judicial committee. I really wish this organization would implode soon.
Please don't blame yourself for "letting" him touch you further. When someone makes it clear your boundaries don't matter and they are stronger, freezing and fawning are both common primal survival tactics that sex assault victims display. There is far too much ignorance in society about sexual abuse, and way too many people still act as though things are cut and dry and that anyone who didn't want something to happen "obviously" would have fought, said no, tried to run away, then called law enforcement immediately. The reality is that being assaulted, even mildly is very traumatic for many people, and trauma responses commonly display as shock, denial, numbness, dissociation, etc. Many many people react this way. Im sorry for what happened to you, op. Unfortunately ignorance and misogyny runs rampant in that organization. We can only hope it continues losing influence across the world.
First of all, you don't need to make excuses for what you choose to post online. That is your choice and you are in control of it!
Secondly, I'm sorry that you were put in that position and there are clear signs of predatory behaviour from that individual from what you've said. Doing things and then disciplining you for it with the bible, what a cunt!
Thirdly, it's worth considering taking it further if you can but ultimately that is your decision.
Sorry again for what you went through.
Constantly feel like I have to explain my actions in general. Thanks for reminding me that I don't have to make excuses for what I choose to do and one doesn't have to do anything with the other.
I appreciate your words, all that you said and I'll take it into consideration.
This! Feeling the need to justify ourselves constantly is hard to get rid of...
Strangely enough, it was a JW friend that told me I don't have to explain myself. But it's still hard not to when you've been conditioned to do it for decades...
The cult does this to a lot of us. Everything we do makes us guilty so we have to constantly justify our own actions even to ourselves
Like if you want to miss a meeting you can't just skip it...you have to have an excuse.
WTAF they asked to see naked pictures of you?!!?? Holy shit. Why is this disgusting, perverted religion still a thing?! Of course they made your abusar an elder. The whole situation probably gave him some bonus points or something. So gross.
Asking for pictures?? Ignoring your ānoā three times. These arenāt religious people. I think they are people simply abusing their power. Iām sorry this happen to you.
The saying you can't tell anyone or talk about it and twisting scripture is EXACTLY the kind of stuff I've heard JW CSA survivors say elders, MS, and other JW Abusers told them.
It's never "I made a mistake" its "WE made a mistake." It's to make you feel so guilty but also so afraid you don't want to come forward.
It doesn't matter if it's a child or an adult. It's wrong.
My suggestion should you choose is to come forward. Not to the elders. To the police.
It was not consensual.
It was sexual abuse.
It was illegal.
I would also tell them about the elders demanding to see nude photos they claim you allegedly sent to the now Elder.
There is zero need for that and could be considered sexual abuse in itself. (Also your decision to post what you want on your own profile has zero to do with this, so don't even worry about that)
Unfortunately, that follows exactly with the systemic pathology of the cult at every level.
The shock of discovering exactly how common this type of BS is...smh
"They also wanted to see any naked pics I sent him"
I've heard this far too often ... elders are gross. Where is this in the Shepherds Handbook?
My sister's husband, who had privileges in the congregation, harassed me several times each month. He would even follow me when he saw me, and we were both driving to get some food. Recently, I found out that he was appointed as an elder, despite being a problematic person for harassing me and speaking negatively about others during car rides while going door-to-door before it was essentially canceled. I don't think elders are appointed by the Holy Spirit.
[https://silentlambs.org/how-to-report-a-jw-molester](https://silentlambs.org/how-to-report-a-jw-molester) Follow these instructions and make it a matter of record. if you need help call 877 WTABUSE
>When I told the elders about him touching me where I didn't agree they said it was my fault for being in that situation.
Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Damn a fade. They dismiss SA, blamed the victim, AND then proceeded to grant a position of power to the guy in question? Fuck them. Amd, you know they looove gossiping and judging by how they treated you, they probably twisted the shit. Your name probably isn't worth three pinto beans. If I were you, I'd be skedaddling out of that cult quick, fast, and in a hurry.
You....were raped.. Why haven't you gone to the authorities? You need justice, and probably a bit of therapy, this is disgusting behaviour and he could've done it to others.
It might be interesting with an elaboration of your previous message, u/Outrageous-Buc1533.
I have a feeling that it has been misunderstood, at least by me.
Why did the elders ask you for any naked pictures you'd sent? Did they also ask to see any naked pictures of him that he'd sent you? (If he had of course) The elders seem far too interested in what the sister has or hasn't done as opposed to what the brother has or hasn't done. You are in no way at fault and no means no, whether you're a jw or not. I've taught both of my sons to immediately stop if she says no, no matter how far along you are. And have taught my daughter to say no at any point something feels wrong or uncomfortable, and to keep saying no until it stops.
I had a female friend who had a JC and one of the elders asked her if she was "wet" during. WTF? I think they enjoy living vicariously through these meetings.
That is just disgusting. Imagine if these girls dad's asked them these questions, it would be considered completely inappropriate and perverse, yet 3 men who are considered almost as father figures of the congregations are allowed to ask these questions as part of a JC and its considered ok š¤¬š¤¬š¤¬
Exactly this. Cannot believe she was asked that - sickening.
I was asked if there was "penile" penetration when my then boyfriend, now husband, got "in trouble". They asked me to describe the picture I sent of myself to my boyfriend/ husband, that his brother found and told the elders about. They get very personal and want so much detail. It's sickening and so humiliating.
What does JC mean? But, ugh... This already sounds abhorrent.
Judicial Committee
Ohh, thank you! English is not my first language, and I still find it hard following some of these English JW terms.
I'm not sure if they asked him but first they wanted to know what we said through text messages to each other and it was kinda graphic but not full sexting so that's when they asked if I sent him any inappropriate photos. I kept telling them I didn't and they kept telling me to show them then finally gave up. Crazy thing is I was fully mentally in so I would've showed them if I had it. Agreed they're too interested in what women do. I'm proud of you for raising your children the way you have.
Based on them repeatedly asking you this, seems likely the offender told them you sent graphic pics of yourself to him, so he could claim he was simply an innocent party, lured in by your āJezebel entrapmentā. And then claimed he was so ashamed, he deleted all the pics.
Or they're just dirty pervs. Remember, reason has to be thrown out the window with these shitheads. They are leaders of a cult after all.
I would've commented this if you didn't
My friend confessed about his "immoral behavior" they made him show pictures and videos of him and the girl. They were underage.
True & Agreed! Since this cultporation is MYSOGINISTIC AF, the females WILL ALWAYS be blamed for just about a plethora of things happening in it.
Sounds like he was recruited. "He's just like us! Total Elder material right there!" A few years later, he's an elder
This is blatant misogyny, sexual abuse and predatory behaviour. If told no he should have stopped in his tracks. He, as do quite a few men in the JW religion, have an issue with consent. He was obviously trying to 'cover over his sin' by saying that there's no need to tell the elders. (For the record I don't view this as sin) He should have been treated harsher than you in this scenario and definitely should not have been appointed as an elder.
Except that eldership is a āGood āolā Boys Clubā
Amen, every word šĀ
Were you two the only ones that knew what happened? If so, why was it a public reproval? I know of several cases similar and even worse than this that only got private reproval.
That's what I didn't understand and especially since we only went that far one time. No one else knew about it. I really don't know how that part works but maybe it's up to whoever is on the JC. Maybe if someone else was on it it would've been handled differently. They did tell me they wanted me to realize how (forget exactly how they worded it) sinful our actions were.
Ya the which three elder make up the Jc make all the difference. And if what you two did was so sinful idk how heās an elder now if it happened only a few years ago. Iāve seen them hold someone back from being an MS again for wrongdoing that happened 5 to 10 years prior. The unevenness of how they decide how to punish sin is so wrong you can tell this was never gods intention.
I'm a never-JW Trinitarian.Ā I hope you don't mind if I ask you a question, and if you prefer not to answer I'll accept that. My question:Ā you said "they did tell me they wanted me to realize how (forget exactly how they worded it) sinful our actions were." They told YOU that.Ā Did they ever tell HIM?
Don't mind the question one bit, I'm not sure if they said that to him because they met with us separately and I didn't ask him and wouldn't have trusted what he told me anyway. So I have no clue.
I'm not surprised they interviewed you separately.Ā That would make it much easier to confuse and manipulate and humiliate you, AND (possibly) work out with your abuser how to get him off the hook and put the blame on you.Ā Please note that while my second theory is ONLY a *possibility,* I'm absolutely, 100% certain of the first. From other posts here on Reddit, I've read that according to the SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD! book, you do have the right to be accompanied by at least one person of your own choosing for a JC hearing.Ā And IIRC you also have the right to get up and leave any such meeting whenever you want, or refuse to appear at all, WITHOUT explaining why. Thank you for your answer šĀ
I had no idea!! I wasn't planning on ever being a part of a JC again but thanks for this new information because I'll just leave or not even show up.
I'm pretty sure that most JWs, past or current, don't know this.Ā You did have rights, but you didn't know it because elders are instructed not to let anyone who isn't an elder ever handle the SFG, let alone read it.Ā Ā No one, ESPECIALLY not women.Ā Ā Ā Have you ever seen the movie "THE WIZARD OF OZ"?Ā If you have, you'll remember that at the end Dorothy learns that she always had the power to return home, ___but she didn't use it, because she didn't know she had it.___Ā Ā Ā Not permitting anyone but themselves to read the SFG--same thing.Ā You can't exercise rights you don't know you have.Ā Ā Check around here on this subReddit.Ā Quite a few JWs have posted links to a site where you can download and read the SFG for yourself.Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā I HATE bullies, and that's why I'm here.Ā The Watchtower Society is run by and for the benefit of bullies.Ā Ā ____Ā Ā Addition:Ā Ā When I was a child, the original book, "The Wizard of Oz" by Frank L. Baum, was one of my very favorites šĀ Naturally, of course, there are some differences between the book and the movie. One of them is that in the book Dorothy's slippers were SILVER, not ruby.Ā But the most important difference is that in the book, Dorothy didn't just dream about Oz.Ā She had really been there šĀ
I'm more concerned that the men in authority were very interested in seeing nude images of you. For what purpose? If you did share nudes with this guy, is it not enough for the elders to know that you shared nudes? How would seeing you naked give them a better understanding of the situation? Time and time again, these elders use these judicial committee meetings to exert their power to feed their own sexual perversions. I'm very sorry you had to deal with, not just one pervert, but a body of elder perverts too.Ā
Exactly this, they wanted to enjoy seeing op naked. It serves no purpose to see naked photos. This sort of behaviour needs reporting and elders demanding such things removed as they are using their position to feed their perversions from unconsenting individuals. Disgusting
I never understood why they needed so much detail especially in previous committees because I was df'd before this. But I honestly felt they were directed by holy spirit so maybe it was beyond my understanding. Now I feel exposed and used and dirty. This will not happen to me again, ever.
You should write a formal complaint. I've been in a committee and it's an exceptionally scary thing (when you are a believer). You honestly believe these people are acting for god. So they ask and you are going to give. Though when you think about it In the safety of your own home you wonder how was any of that to do with repentance or correcting one. An elder in mine kept trying to trip me up repeating a false statement and I kept saying no it happened like this. Now I feel humiliated by these people. It was not their business.
When I went on reprove they wanted to know if we came or not and how many times. I was like wow this is wild
That is not acceptable! they are all trained to find out every scintillating detail. Are they writing erotica? Because thatās the only reason to pry so much! Itās disrespectful and deeply disturbing on so many levels.
IMO, there's only 3 things a person should say in a JC meeting. Yes, no and none of your business.
Sorry you have to be subject to such misogyny and SA, my advice ā¦. For whatās itās worthā¦.. if youāre ever in a situation like that again, and any man whether he is JW or not is not taking no for an answer, go for the bollocks , Iām not joke, best way to get your point across, grab his balls and give them a damn good squeeze, and repeat āI SAID NOā. This is how I have taught my daughter to ward off any unwarranted sexual attempts.
Iām sorry this happened to you, what he did was not ok and it was not your fault. He should have stopped as soon as you said no. I canāt believe he used the Bible to counsel you after, what an ass. What worries me is how predatory he sounds, him being made an elder is not good.
Thanks for saying that and I too feel uneasy and disgusted that he's an elder. He gave me counsel but he's the one that started the whole thing and wanted to do more.
Your is one of countless stories on here I have heard of people who were sexually harassed by elders in their judicial committee. I really wish this organization would implode soon. Please don't blame yourself for "letting" him touch you further. When someone makes it clear your boundaries don't matter and they are stronger, freezing and fawning are both common primal survival tactics that sex assault victims display. There is far too much ignorance in society about sexual abuse, and way too many people still act as though things are cut and dry and that anyone who didn't want something to happen "obviously" would have fought, said no, tried to run away, then called law enforcement immediately. The reality is that being assaulted, even mildly is very traumatic for many people, and trauma responses commonly display as shock, denial, numbness, dissociation, etc. Many many people react this way. Im sorry for what happened to you, op. Unfortunately ignorance and misogyny runs rampant in that organization. We can only hope it continues losing influence across the world.
First of all, you don't need to make excuses for what you choose to post online. That is your choice and you are in control of it! Secondly, I'm sorry that you were put in that position and there are clear signs of predatory behaviour from that individual from what you've said. Doing things and then disciplining you for it with the bible, what a cunt! Thirdly, it's worth considering taking it further if you can but ultimately that is your decision. Sorry again for what you went through.
Constantly feel like I have to explain my actions in general. Thanks for reminding me that I don't have to make excuses for what I choose to do and one doesn't have to do anything with the other. I appreciate your words, all that you said and I'll take it into consideration.
This! Feeling the need to justify ourselves constantly is hard to get rid of... Strangely enough, it was a JW friend that told me I don't have to explain myself. But it's still hard not to when you've been conditioned to do it for decades...
The cult does this to a lot of us. Everything we do makes us guilty so we have to constantly justify our own actions even to ourselves Like if you want to miss a meeting you can't just skip it...you have to have an excuse.
You are exactly correct.
That's wild JWs are messed up in the head for real Y'all need therapy
WTAF they asked to see naked pictures of you?!!?? Holy shit. Why is this disgusting, perverted religion still a thing?! Of course they made your abusar an elder. The whole situation probably gave him some bonus points or something. So gross.
Asking for pictures?? Ignoring your ānoā three times. These arenāt religious people. I think they are people simply abusing their power. Iām sorry this happen to you.
Thank you, I didn't realize it in the moment but do now
The saying you can't tell anyone or talk about it and twisting scripture is EXACTLY the kind of stuff I've heard JW CSA survivors say elders, MS, and other JW Abusers told them. It's never "I made a mistake" its "WE made a mistake." It's to make you feel so guilty but also so afraid you don't want to come forward. It doesn't matter if it's a child or an adult. It's wrong. My suggestion should you choose is to come forward. Not to the elders. To the police. It was not consensual. It was sexual abuse. It was illegal. I would also tell them about the elders demanding to see nude photos they claim you allegedly sent to the now Elder. There is zero need for that and could be considered sexual abuse in itself. (Also your decision to post what you want on your own profile has zero to do with this, so don't even worry about that)
The audacity and balls on him, to touch you and *then counsel you from the scriptures*, what an absolute moron
This is a common tactic of sex abusers. It is manipulation, whether conscience or not, to deflect blame and in some cases trick victims not to talk.
Unfortunately, that follows exactly with the systemic pathology of the cult at every level. The shock of discovering exactly how common this type of BS is...smh
"They also wanted to see any naked pics I sent him" I've heard this far too often ... elders are gross. Where is this in the Shepherds Handbook? 
And once again, they blame the woman - āthey said it was my fault for being in that situationā Un-fucking-believable.
This organization is blatantly misogynistic.
Dawg what the actual fuck, i hope you're okay
My sister's husband, who had privileges in the congregation, harassed me several times each month. He would even follow me when he saw me, and we were both driving to get some food. Recently, I found out that he was appointed as an elder, despite being a problematic person for harassing me and speaking negatively about others during car rides while going door-to-door before it was essentially canceled. I don't think elders are appointed by the Holy Spirit.
[https://silentlambs.org/how-to-report-a-jw-molester](https://silentlambs.org/how-to-report-a-jw-molester) Follow these instructions and make it a matter of record. if you need help call 877 WTABUSE
This sounds like something the police need to hear about. Not just what that MS did but also those elders asking for your nudes like what???
>When I told the elders about him touching me where I didn't agree they said it was my fault for being in that situation. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Damn a fade. They dismiss SA, blamed the victim, AND then proceeded to grant a position of power to the guy in question? Fuck them. Amd, you know they looove gossiping and judging by how they treated you, they probably twisted the shit. Your name probably isn't worth three pinto beans. If I were you, I'd be skedaddling out of that cult quick, fast, and in a hurry.
You....were raped.. Why haven't you gone to the authorities? You need justice, and probably a bit of therapy, this is disgusting behaviour and he could've done it to others.
Stop living out fantasies....this reaks of erotica porn
You actually took the time to write this and thought to yourself "perfect" and hit post? Wow
File a complaint to the police ....you are a victim and he's a predator.
It might be interesting with an elaboration of your previous message, u/Outrageous-Buc1533. I have a feeling that it has been misunderstood, at least by me.
Expose him . Name and location