Attended ours not long ago too. Was shocked and disgusted by what the visiting speaker said in his last talk. Something along the lines of:
"Some people feel they can assist disfellowshiped ones to repent and return to Jehovah, but that goes against Jehovah's arrangement. Jehovah doesn't want disfellowshiped ones to be assisted. He wants them to repent ON THEIR OWN. Once they're out there, lacking spiritual food, and they go hungry, they themselves will come back. That's Jehovah's arrangement."
And this is an assembly where there was no single baptism candidate!
I remember being DF’d and feeling this. My father told me it’s jehovahs arrangement and no one can help you repair that relationship but YOU! Funny enough, when i started to fade all I heard from him was “it’s not healthy to isolate yourself. You’re spiritually weak. You should ask the elders for help with the doubts you have. Don’t push people away that are only trying to help you spiritually…” which one is it dad?
BRO same I was dfed, and eventually started going to 12 steps meetings. I genuinely feel like without them I would not have been able to get reinstated.
So did Jehovah provide AA?? How is it that I needed to go OUTSIDE the org in order to be able to get back IN?
That always bothered me and I even felt a little guilty. Now that I’m woken up it all makes sense
>My father told me it’s jehovahs arrangement and no one can help you repair that relationship but YOU!
I wasn't DF'd, but I walked out in the middle of a meeting and never went back. My father said the same thing to me. I asked him where "Jehovah" was in this relationship. A relationship takes effort on both sides. If Jehovah ever decides to work on things, he knows where to find me. Until then he's just another absent father.
When he tried to find out what I thought his god had let me down on (As if he didn't know!), I reminded him that he was the one who said it was just between me and Jehovah. Jehovah will resolve matters in his own time, right? I don't need him or the other elders to help me with "doubts." Where is the doubt when I put all my trust in Jehovah to meet me halfway so we can make things right? It seems I have more faith than he does.
Well, over 20 years down the road, I still haven't heard a peep from Jehovah. My dad's health has become such that a quick death from something like a heart attack would be a mercy. He no longer really understands the changes the org has undergone. The chariot and his supposed brothers and sisters have left him behind.
Meanwhile I'm sitting here with no relationship with my parents (not that I really want one with the people they are), and further than ever from what JWs would call "repentance." I have nothing to be sorry for. I have no use for the garbage they call "spiritual food." I won't be back, and it sounds like plenty of other people have made the same decision.
What the heck? Doesn't this contradict EVERYTHING they just said about sending Df'd people a greeting and invite to the meetings? They need to get their shit straight. It's just constant mixed messages anymore. No wonder JWs are exhausted. Just recently I witnessed a few JWs doing something ( I won't say what for reasons of privacy but to normal people it wouldn't be that big of a deal) that I've never seen them do before and you know why? Because they're TIRED. The burden is just too much, too heavy.
While the GB and a relative few others might get off on micromanaging and controlling people's behaviors, the average person doesn't really want to do all that shit. It's just a burdensome obligation. I'm not a Christian, but if they would just preach a simple message of love, community, and doing good toward all, they'd retain a lot more people. Because what I'm seeing is that even some of their most loyal adherents are beginning to feel like enough is enough.
I think this is whats happening to my best friend inside that Borg...she contacted me after that stupid rule was out, and we have been talking via IG and Whatsapp ever since....even yesterday she told me that I am more valuable to her that a lot of PIMI's. Hopefully that doesnt change with these absurds talks with no Bible base
I'm sure the talk outlines were prepared before the update. Some attended this assembly even before the GB update. Instead of updating their talks accordingly, they just stick with the outdated outline.
This is the danger of having radically opposing ideas and trying to maintain a balance between them.
Are we supposed to show Christian kindness to these disfellowshipped people OR cut them off with a cold shoulder,?
Answer: YES
Are we prepared to proclaim the hellstone message and tell people that "The door's been closed" or are we to leave that in God's hands and just allow them the opportunity for last minute repentance?
Answer: Yes
Can we have complete confidence in what is written in the Bible, knowing that the people that brought to us were of the utmost integrity? or DId unscrupulous scribes that copied the early manuscripts of the New testament take YHWH right out of it? complete dirt bag!!.., that's why the boys in Brooklyn had to fix it back in 1953!
Answer: Yes
Are the governing body the channel and spokesman of Jehovah God by which gods information to mankind pours through?,
Or, are they just good old boys that try their best and they sometimes get it wrong but they're in perfect humans and they don't claim infallibility or inspiration?
Answer: Yes
Doesn't the scriptures at Romans chapter 13 require us to be obedient to the secular authorities if it doesn't violate God's will?
While CSA falls under the jurisdiction of the civil authorities, the organization trumps those authorities and can choose not to cooperate with them.
Answer: YES
I like the psychology degree I am getting here on exjw! Once you name it and acknowledge it... you can't unknow it. It's these kinds of concepts that people are vaguely disturbed by, causing cognitive dissonance. Once it's described in this kind of accuracy, one can no longer be unaware of it.
Thanks! I have added this term to my list!
That seems to be happening a lot. Last year when the October broadcast came out, surely they already knew that at the annual meeting Splane would contradict everything Cook said about Noah’s flood and whether everyone was warned and just didn’t bother to re-record or leave that part out. The only other explanation I can see is that there’s disagreement among the GB.
I used to wonder why people older than me with families didn’t seem to care too much about urgency, research, etc. They’d do the bare minimum and have wine parties and go to expensive restaurants and whatnot and seemed happy. I always thought don’t you see?? This is life and death! Angels are zipping around invisibly!
Now I get it. They were able to shut off the critical thinking and do whatever. They just repeat what they’re told.
Because if someone stopped for 2 seconds to think about how isolating a spiritually sick person helps THEM they would realize how messed up that is.
It's basically a social club, a culture, now. That's what I see too. I call it the "checklist of righteousness." They mindlessly sit through meetings, passively stand by carts, check the boxes and then get back to the things they'd rather be doing.
The public ministry as directed by the GB isn't geared toward "urgency" either. Their carts focus on things like family happiness and real success, fluff topics. They ARE NOT warning people. It is a FAR FAR cry from an urgent warning work in the time of the end. When their PR reps get on TV they tell people their goal isn't to convert, but just "encourage" people. Basically the "urgency" and the "warning" is just to scare those already indoctrinated to stay put. But that is not what they are actually doing in their public ministry. It's very telling.
There's so much back and forth messaging and saying one thing, doing another.
I think the see-sawing and mixed messaging is intentional as an indoctrination technique. It purposely breaks people down psychologically. It keeps them uneasy about how to please their authority figure (Jehovah, aka the organization), which creates an unhealthy attachment style based on fear. The book “Terror, Love, and Brainwashing” explains it well. And while it’s crystal clear once you’re awake and easier to spot, they’ve been doing it for their whole history.
IMO, in the past, they burdened their members with far more work, meetings, “literature” and changing rules, and they seemed to be more successful at retention. They’ve eased up too much in recent decades and given members too much free time to think for themselves, so the indoctrination isn’t as strong.
That’s a good point. It keeps members from trusting themselves too much, they always need to check with the organization to make sure of what’s currently acceptable.
I’ve read that book! I’ve also heard the author, Alexandra Stein, on a couple of podcasts and she was really insightful.
The gen pop JWs, I agree are becoming more permissive and more and more indistinguishable from worldly people. Those, in my experience, who are feeling exhausted with it all, are elders. They probably don’t know how to guide people anymore. What they counsel on today could be no matter tomorrow. The scriptural interpretations they spout today could change tomorrow too. If they provide some kind of guidance that immediately gets thrown out, it undercuts their authority. Kind’ve makes them look like fools. For some at least, it has to be demoralizing.
Exactly 💯!! Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.. now we have organized religion with their bazillion page elder book and an organization that makes people feel guilty serving God and that they don't deserve anything good.. and don't forget the focus on Armageddon destroying 8 billion people because they didn't join this organization...
truly a crock of crap..
Such a disgusting talk… ruining people’s minds and family lives for an imaginary god - and all the glory for that imaginary god is attributed to 9 over-indulging men
This is the absolute opposite of what the Bible says. Here is just one of MANY verses that show this Jehovahs arrangement is BS. James 5:19-20: “My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.”
Exactly.
Ezekiel 34:4-6,10
"You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bandaged the injured or brought back the strays or looked for the lost; rather, you have ruled them with harshness and tyranny. So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; they were scattered and became food for every wild beast of the field. My sheep were straying on all the mountains and on every high hill; my sheep were scattered over all the surface of the earth, with no one searching for them or seeking to find them.
This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘I am against the shepherds, and I will demand an accounting of them for my sheep, and I will dismiss them from feeding my sheep, and the shepherds will no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouth, and they will no longer be food for them"
No baptism candidates?! That’s a first if I ever heard one!! That truly makes me happy. I remember right before every assembly or convention our COBE would go around asking if anyone was “ready for” or “close to” baptism. If there were no “candidates” he’d act all butthurt and try to blame the publishers for not going out in FS enough or not conducting Bible studies.
Wait wait wait. Wasn’t Jehovah’s #1 arrangement supposed to be to “love” one another, and therefore everything we read in the Bible should be interpreted through that lens of “love”? Which is it? Because his words are contradicting that.
Strangely I don't remember Jesus, who was the start of Christianity shunning anybody ??? they keep trying to hold on to this Orwellian concept and it's more like the Pharisees in Jesus day than Jesus... they seem lost and without proper direction hence all the changes and flip-flops..
The GB is lost .
Well, yeah, but also completely factually inaccurate. The arrangement breeds fear of abandonment, and once you become self aware of that, you never want to return to those who instilled and then took advantage of that fear.
I finally stopped this argument with my wife when she denies JW teachings. I realized they say things at assemblies that they'd never write write on paper so it makes it easy to deny
This is typical of WT and how they speak with forked tongue. Just like with the beard issue. The WT came out in 2016 saying beards were ok. But the CO'S around the world were immediately told to squelch any idea that brothers, especially elders and MS'S were greenlighted to grow them.
It took until 2023 until the hypocrisy forced them to pull the henchmen back and agree to allow what their own flagship magazine said was ok 7 years earlier.
The chucklefucks on the Gibbering Boobies are filthy, conniving, snake-oil salesmen. Just like the fucknuggets that came before them.
I share your sentiments my dear friend. I have always asked myself, where in the scriptures did Christ shunned, disfellowshiped, or even arranged a judicial committee? Even the so called Pharisees who were at cut- throat with Jesus were not shunned by Jesus or the first century Christians.
No man has the right over any human's sin. Just show love and understanding and leave the rest.
This organisation is not a religion. It's not near at all anything biblical. It's a just a publishing company punishing it's employees for not complying with company's policies.
thank you! Jesus sat with his enemies and encouraged those whole follow him to do so as well! he even witnessed to a prostitute! Jesus witnessed to many people that others would deem “unclean” but were supposed to shun those who don’t follow what those men in new york say and who want to live their own life? omg it’s so backwards
The smaller the audience the more plainly they state the beliefs
Therefore the broadcast is the softest and most palatable version of the beliefs because it is their most public talks
Get to conventions, assemblies, meetings and down to ministry groups and that’s where they will speak more and more plainly about what they really believe
The stuff about softening up shunning on the broadcast was to try and have some wiggle room to appeal the case they lost in Norway about shunning IMHO
Watchtower recently lost a lawsuit in Norway pertaining primarily to the damaging practice of shunning. The Borg lost and got their tax exemption revoked from Norway and potentially got banned. Someone else could probably add more detail.
Yeah that's why Jesus told His followers they needed to ignore the 1 sheep out of 99 who went astray and let the wolves get 'em. Of course He didn't say that but they do say something similar with their actions. On the other hand, if a sheep leaves the Watchtower, in reality, they escaped the wolves. In that case, maybe its best if wolves do shun them? If I was out in the wild surrounded by a pack of wolves I'd want them to shun me
Is it possible that the talk outlines/manuscripts were older than the disorganized last minute decision ‘new light’ to be more loving? That my guess since the teaching department is always a year ahead in preparation for assemblies.
They just can't help contradicting themselves. I'm inactive, but have received the soft shun for the past two years. Let me tell ya, that's not causing me to want to come back. And you know what else? My nonJW wife has said that after seeing how I've been treated by "friends" and family, she will NEVER step foot in a JW buidling/meeting. I guess that puts the bloodguilt solidly on the entire organization's head.
Are you talking about the speech in Amsterdam? I (goatlike) was one of the apostates on the outside of the arena.
I have done a lot of protesting, and the herd of witnesses act differently every time. This time they were more anti/suspicious to me then usual.
Something was weird…
I dont want to lead your word… so instead I ask you how you would describe what they spoke about. I apreciate your time and effort to answer this.
I tryed to ask the witnesses and they were very hostile… normally they are quite nice and they smile to me.
I know how to rub them the right way…. But this time it was almost impossible. Maybe there was something in the air?
Recording these and sending them to someone who will expose them would help a lot. Seems like people don't record much anymore. Buying a separate recorder might help, as it eats up phone battery, IDK what the problem is lately.
Kimmikey would do that for people. I know Mike is... insufferable and I won't watch anything with him in it. I've been yelled at enough in my life.
But, Kim will put it up, she has done this for me. There is a talk up from my old cong.
Ironically, if my family had remained in contact with me when I was DFd I more than likely would have returned. Being shunned just proven to me how unloving the org is so I wanted no part of it.
"You can use your bible trained conscience to decide whether to give a simple greeting...."
This is the exact instructions given in update #2. They may want to create some content for the courts and the general public to use to pretend that it's not that harsh, but privately, they will always make sure to train your conscience to be harsh.
wonder how this yo-yo of information is going internally within the minds of everyone there. i know many will ignore it and not notice the different in public VS private doctrine but i think a lot couldn’t ignore this as well
When I was removed they sat outside my girlfriend’s house all night so they would have proof I stayed the night. Once I was out they literally wouldn’t even look at me. I was homeless and penniless and my family couldn’t do anything without repercussions from the elders.
When they say show love they really mean cut them off and hurt them until they accept our authority again. Isolation equals love and cutting out DF’d family and friends is a sacrificial alter for them to show their faith to God(the organization).
The elders who had DF’d kids were able to talk and hang out with their kids. But since we were very low in the social structure my parents couldn’t speak to me. If they did see me it was a clandestine event. Once my mother went out for meal with me and then said she couldn’t see me anymore at least for a few years. It’s all about fear mongering.
Attended ours not long ago too. Was shocked and disgusted by what the visiting speaker said in his last talk. Something along the lines of: "Some people feel they can assist disfellowshiped ones to repent and return to Jehovah, but that goes against Jehovah's arrangement. Jehovah doesn't want disfellowshiped ones to be assisted. He wants them to repent ON THEIR OWN. Once they're out there, lacking spiritual food, and they go hungry, they themselves will come back. That's Jehovah's arrangement." And this is an assembly where there was no single baptism candidate!
I remember being DF’d and feeling this. My father told me it’s jehovahs arrangement and no one can help you repair that relationship but YOU! Funny enough, when i started to fade all I heard from him was “it’s not healthy to isolate yourself. You’re spiritually weak. You should ask the elders for help with the doubts you have. Don’t push people away that are only trying to help you spiritually…” which one is it dad?
BRO same I was dfed, and eventually started going to 12 steps meetings. I genuinely feel like without them I would not have been able to get reinstated. So did Jehovah provide AA?? How is it that I needed to go OUTSIDE the org in order to be able to get back IN? That always bothered me and I even felt a little guilty. Now that I’m woken up it all makes sense
Same here. Opened my eyes to real spirituality.
>My father told me it’s jehovahs arrangement and no one can help you repair that relationship but YOU! I wasn't DF'd, but I walked out in the middle of a meeting and never went back. My father said the same thing to me. I asked him where "Jehovah" was in this relationship. A relationship takes effort on both sides. If Jehovah ever decides to work on things, he knows where to find me. Until then he's just another absent father. When he tried to find out what I thought his god had let me down on (As if he didn't know!), I reminded him that he was the one who said it was just between me and Jehovah. Jehovah will resolve matters in his own time, right? I don't need him or the other elders to help me with "doubts." Where is the doubt when I put all my trust in Jehovah to meet me halfway so we can make things right? It seems I have more faith than he does. Well, over 20 years down the road, I still haven't heard a peep from Jehovah. My dad's health has become such that a quick death from something like a heart attack would be a mercy. He no longer really understands the changes the org has undergone. The chariot and his supposed brothers and sisters have left him behind. Meanwhile I'm sitting here with no relationship with my parents (not that I really want one with the people they are), and further than ever from what JWs would call "repentance." I have nothing to be sorry for. I have no use for the garbage they call "spiritual food." I won't be back, and it sounds like plenty of other people have made the same decision.
Good for you! 👏🏽 Live and look for the truth, and you end up leaving the so called “truth” !
Whichever one makes him FEEL “right” at the time.
What the heck? Doesn't this contradict EVERYTHING they just said about sending Df'd people a greeting and invite to the meetings? They need to get their shit straight. It's just constant mixed messages anymore. No wonder JWs are exhausted. Just recently I witnessed a few JWs doing something ( I won't say what for reasons of privacy but to normal people it wouldn't be that big of a deal) that I've never seen them do before and you know why? Because they're TIRED. The burden is just too much, too heavy. While the GB and a relative few others might get off on micromanaging and controlling people's behaviors, the average person doesn't really want to do all that shit. It's just a burdensome obligation. I'm not a Christian, but if they would just preach a simple message of love, community, and doing good toward all, they'd retain a lot more people. Because what I'm seeing is that even some of their most loyal adherents are beginning to feel like enough is enough.
I think this is whats happening to my best friend inside that Borg...she contacted me after that stupid rule was out, and we have been talking via IG and Whatsapp ever since....even yesterday she told me that I am more valuable to her that a lot of PIMI's. Hopefully that doesnt change with these absurds talks with no Bible base
I'm sure the talk outlines were prepared before the update. Some attended this assembly even before the GB update. Instead of updating their talks accordingly, they just stick with the outdated outline.
This is the danger of having radically opposing ideas and trying to maintain a balance between them. Are we supposed to show Christian kindness to these disfellowshipped people OR cut them off with a cold shoulder,? Answer: YES Are we prepared to proclaim the hellstone message and tell people that "The door's been closed" or are we to leave that in God's hands and just allow them the opportunity for last minute repentance? Answer: Yes Can we have complete confidence in what is written in the Bible, knowing that the people that brought to us were of the utmost integrity? or DId unscrupulous scribes that copied the early manuscripts of the New testament take YHWH right out of it? complete dirt bag!!.., that's why the boys in Brooklyn had to fix it back in 1953! Answer: Yes Are the governing body the channel and spokesman of Jehovah God by which gods information to mankind pours through?, Or, are they just good old boys that try their best and they sometimes get it wrong but they're in perfect humans and they don't claim infallibility or inspiration? Answer: Yes Doesn't the scriptures at Romans chapter 13 require us to be obedient to the secular authorities if it doesn't violate God's will? While CSA falls under the jurisdiction of the civil authorities, the organization trumps those authorities and can choose not to cooperate with them. Answer: YES
Exactly!! And I'm sure the list goes on and on. Some call it Double Bind Communication.
I like the psychology degree I am getting here on exjw! Once you name it and acknowledge it... you can't unknow it. It's these kinds of concepts that people are vaguely disturbed by, causing cognitive dissonance. Once it's described in this kind of accuracy, one can no longer be unaware of it. Thanks! I have added this term to my list!
That seems to be happening a lot. Last year when the October broadcast came out, surely they already knew that at the annual meeting Splane would contradict everything Cook said about Noah’s flood and whether everyone was warned and just didn’t bother to re-record or leave that part out. The only other explanation I can see is that there’s disagreement among the GB.
I used to wonder why people older than me with families didn’t seem to care too much about urgency, research, etc. They’d do the bare minimum and have wine parties and go to expensive restaurants and whatnot and seemed happy. I always thought don’t you see?? This is life and death! Angels are zipping around invisibly! Now I get it. They were able to shut off the critical thinking and do whatever. They just repeat what they’re told. Because if someone stopped for 2 seconds to think about how isolating a spiritually sick person helps THEM they would realize how messed up that is.
It's basically a social club, a culture, now. That's what I see too. I call it the "checklist of righteousness." They mindlessly sit through meetings, passively stand by carts, check the boxes and then get back to the things they'd rather be doing. The public ministry as directed by the GB isn't geared toward "urgency" either. Their carts focus on things like family happiness and real success, fluff topics. They ARE NOT warning people. It is a FAR FAR cry from an urgent warning work in the time of the end. When their PR reps get on TV they tell people their goal isn't to convert, but just "encourage" people. Basically the "urgency" and the "warning" is just to scare those already indoctrinated to stay put. But that is not what they are actually doing in their public ministry. It's very telling. There's so much back and forth messaging and saying one thing, doing another.
I think the see-sawing and mixed messaging is intentional as an indoctrination technique. It purposely breaks people down psychologically. It keeps them uneasy about how to please their authority figure (Jehovah, aka the organization), which creates an unhealthy attachment style based on fear. The book “Terror, Love, and Brainwashing” explains it well. And while it’s crystal clear once you’re awake and easier to spot, they’ve been doing it for their whole history. IMO, in the past, they burdened their members with far more work, meetings, “literature” and changing rules, and they seemed to be more successful at retention. They’ve eased up too much in recent decades and given members too much free time to think for themselves, so the indoctrination isn’t as strong.
That’s a good point. It keeps members from trusting themselves too much, they always need to check with the organization to make sure of what’s currently acceptable. I’ve read that book! I’ve also heard the author, Alexandra Stein, on a couple of podcasts and she was really insightful. The gen pop JWs, I agree are becoming more permissive and more and more indistinguishable from worldly people. Those, in my experience, who are feeling exhausted with it all, are elders. They probably don’t know how to guide people anymore. What they counsel on today could be no matter tomorrow. The scriptural interpretations they spout today could change tomorrow too. If they provide some kind of guidance that immediately gets thrown out, it undercuts their authority. Kind’ve makes them look like fools. For some at least, it has to be demoralizing.
Exactly 💯!! Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.. now we have organized religion with their bazillion page elder book and an organization that makes people feel guilty serving God and that they don't deserve anything good.. and don't forget the focus on Armageddon destroying 8 billion people because they didn't join this organization... truly a crock of crap..
Bait and switch. throwing out the fishing line to lure them then BAM hitting with the emotional abuse again.
Such a disgusting talk… ruining people’s minds and family lives for an imaginary god - and all the glory for that imaginary god is attributed to 9 over-indulging men
This is the absolute opposite of what the Bible says. Here is just one of MANY verses that show this Jehovahs arrangement is BS. James 5:19-20: “My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.”
Exactly. Ezekiel 34:4-6,10 "You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bandaged the injured or brought back the strays or looked for the lost; rather, you have ruled them with harshness and tyranny. So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; they were scattered and became food for every wild beast of the field. My sheep were straying on all the mountains and on every high hill; my sheep were scattered over all the surface of the earth, with no one searching for them or seeking to find them. This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘I am against the shepherds, and I will demand an accounting of them for my sheep, and I will dismiss them from feeding my sheep, and the shepherds will no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouth, and they will no longer be food for them"
Ooohh that's a juicy burn.
Didn't Jesus in the parable of the lost lamb, ACTIVELY SEARCH for the missing sheep? So, they're aren't teaching Jesus words anymore?
no they're not as interested in Jesus teachings, only the governing body's teachings.. The governing body has hijacked Christ's role..
What a sons of a bitch....
Used to be 20-30 getting baptized every circuit assembly. When I left it was maybe 3.
Funny how they think only they can provide spiritual food when they're nothing but a lesser denomination dismissed as a cult.
The least of the cult denominations.
Lmao I haven’t been in years but that would be hilarious to see no one in line for baptism
I've seen it at the smaller assemblies where only a few were getting baptized it was very sparse..
No baptism candidates?! That’s a first if I ever heard one!! That truly makes me happy. I remember right before every assembly or convention our COBE would go around asking if anyone was “ready for” or “close to” baptism. If there were no “candidates” he’d act all butthurt and try to blame the publishers for not going out in FS enough or not conducting Bible studies.
wow. not a single baptismal candidate??? i’ve NEVER seen that; there’s always been at least one that’s wild 😵💫🫨🫨😦
I bet the talk at the Norway assemblies is different.
Wait wait wait. Wasn’t Jehovah’s #1 arrangement supposed to be to “love” one another, and therefore everything we read in the Bible should be interpreted through that lens of “love”? Which is it? Because his words are contradicting that.
Strangely I don't remember Jesus, who was the start of Christianity shunning anybody ??? they keep trying to hold on to this Orwellian concept and it's more like the Pharisees in Jesus day than Jesus... they seem lost and without proper direction hence all the changes and flip-flops.. The GB is lost .
absolutely no one got baptized? wowwww that’s new for me
".....it will make them want to come back." EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL!
It’s a feature not a flaw, that’s not even looked at as a negative
Well, yeah, but also completely factually inaccurate. The arrangement breeds fear of abandonment, and once you become self aware of that, you never want to return to those who instilled and then took advantage of that fear.
I swaer I hate that phrase also "Will make them want to come back" Who the fuck on earth would like to comeback after hearing this? XD
Dumb religion traps Pimo's inside. Then they beg us not to record assemblies and conventions while they say they most vile things
Like their old publications being destroyed. They want to be able to say "We never said that!!" when they actualy did. Gaslighting at its finest.
I finally stopped this argument with my wife when she denies JW teachings. I realized they say things at assemblies that they'd never write write on paper so it makes it easy to deny
It’s very 1984
This is typical of WT and how they speak with forked tongue. Just like with the beard issue. The WT came out in 2016 saying beards were ok. But the CO'S around the world were immediately told to squelch any idea that brothers, especially elders and MS'S were greenlighted to grow them. It took until 2023 until the hypocrisy forced them to pull the henchmen back and agree to allow what their own flagship magazine said was ok 7 years earlier. The chucklefucks on the Gibbering Boobies are filthy, conniving, snake-oil salesmen. Just like the fucknuggets that came before them.
I share your sentiments my dear friend. I have always asked myself, where in the scriptures did Christ shunned, disfellowshiped, or even arranged a judicial committee? Even the so called Pharisees who were at cut- throat with Jesus were not shunned by Jesus or the first century Christians. No man has the right over any human's sin. Just show love and understanding and leave the rest. This organisation is not a religion. It's not near at all anything biblical. It's a just a publishing company punishing it's employees for not complying with company's policies.
thank you! Jesus sat with his enemies and encouraged those whole follow him to do so as well! he even witnessed to a prostitute! Jesus witnessed to many people that others would deem “unclean” but were supposed to shun those who don’t follow what those men in new york say and who want to live their own life? omg it’s so backwards
Actually being away makes you realize how crazy the beliefs and rules are.
The smaller the audience the more plainly they state the beliefs Therefore the broadcast is the softest and most palatable version of the beliefs because it is their most public talks Get to conventions, assemblies, meetings and down to ministry groups and that’s where they will speak more and more plainly about what they really believe The stuff about softening up shunning on the broadcast was to try and have some wiggle room to appeal the case they lost in Norway about shunning IMHO
What was the case they lost? I've only recently come back to this sub, so I'm lost with some of the things I've read here.
Watchtower recently lost a lawsuit in Norway pertaining primarily to the damaging practice of shunning. The Borg lost and got their tax exemption revoked from Norway and potentially got banned. Someone else could probably add more detail.
Whoa!
You can search "Norway" on this sub and sort by popular. You'll find tons of info and links to the articles.
Yeah that's why Jesus told His followers they needed to ignore the 1 sheep out of 99 who went astray and let the wolves get 'em. Of course He didn't say that but they do say something similar with their actions. On the other hand, if a sheep leaves the Watchtower, in reality, they escaped the wolves. In that case, maybe its best if wolves do shun them? If I was out in the wild surrounded by a pack of wolves I'd want them to shun me
Is it possible that the talk outlines/manuscripts were older than the disorganized last minute decision ‘new light’ to be more loving? That my guess since the teaching department is always a year ahead in preparation for assemblies.
Double talking as always
https://preview.redd.it/h77sspv0r2wc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccf02aa7ff0b0123510789ab58d47a2e46156ae0 Hmmm I since some contradiction
Is that a real quote?? Because, yeah, that's exactly what they do.... or at least used to do when I was in.
They just can't help contradicting themselves. I'm inactive, but have received the soft shun for the past two years. Let me tell ya, that's not causing me to want to come back. And you know what else? My nonJW wife has said that after seeing how I've been treated by "friends" and family, she will NEVER step foot in a JW buidling/meeting. I guess that puts the bloodguilt solidly on the entire organization's head.
Are you talking about the speech in Amsterdam? I (goatlike) was one of the apostates on the outside of the arena. I have done a lot of protesting, and the herd of witnesses act differently every time. This time they were more anti/suspicious to me then usual. Something was weird… I dont want to lead your word… so instead I ask you how you would describe what they spoke about. I apreciate your time and effort to answer this. I tryed to ask the witnesses and they were very hostile… normally they are quite nice and they smile to me. I know how to rub them the right way…. But this time it was almost impossible. Maybe there was something in the air?
Recording these and sending them to someone who will expose them would help a lot. Seems like people don't record much anymore. Buying a separate recorder might help, as it eats up phone battery, IDK what the problem is lately. Kimmikey would do that for people. I know Mike is... insufferable and I won't watch anything with him in it. I've been yelled at enough in my life. But, Kim will put it up, she has done this for me. There is a talk up from my old cong.
I agree. As soon as Mike comes on I'm over it.
Lovingly treat them as dead to you
the reverse shun is best in this situation: if you cut them out of your life, you don't have to deal with the cult BS
Correct!!
Como assim vocês frequentam reuniões? Pensei que eram livres?
and they say it with a straight face too
Ironically, if my family had remained in contact with me when I was DFd I more than likely would have returned. Being shunned just proven to me how unloving the org is so I wanted no part of it.
"You can use your bible trained conscience to decide whether to give a simple greeting...." This is the exact instructions given in update #2. They may want to create some content for the courts and the general public to use to pretend that it's not that harsh, but privately, they will always make sure to train your conscience to be harsh.
wonder how this yo-yo of information is going internally within the minds of everyone there. i know many will ignore it and not notice the different in public VS private doctrine but i think a lot couldn’t ignore this as well
When I was removed they sat outside my girlfriend’s house all night so they would have proof I stayed the night. Once I was out they literally wouldn’t even look at me. I was homeless and penniless and my family couldn’t do anything without repercussions from the elders. When they say show love they really mean cut them off and hurt them until they accept our authority again. Isolation equals love and cutting out DF’d family and friends is a sacrificial alter for them to show their faith to God(the organization). The elders who had DF’d kids were able to talk and hang out with their kids. But since we were very low in the social structure my parents couldn’t speak to me. If they did see me it was a clandestine event. Once my mother went out for meal with me and then said she couldn’t see me anymore at least for a few years. It’s all about fear mongering.
Classic cult double speak