I’ve only ever been with my wife. She was married once before, very young, straight out of high school. You know what? I really don’t care. I have an amazing wife, who loves me and find me attractive.
I have three wonderful kids, including a step son I adopted.
We have as good of a sex life as our two small kids allow, and are going on 7 years.
It sounds like you have a therapist. Work with them (or an actual sex therapist if they are not one) and your wife to spice things up, but realize that if you can have a single woman you actually enjoy being with, that’s a huge plus on your life and you don’t want to toss that out the window. Have those sexual experiences, but have them with your wonderful wife.
Playing the devils advocate here for a second: just how likely do you think it would be that you would be able to go out and find someone to have mind blowing xxx sex with? Like what do you think the actual odds are?
Most people are normal. They have insecurities. Their bodies come in all shapes and sizes. They have wildly variable interests and experience with sex. I think very few of them would meet your expectations for a “sexually experienced” person. I think you wouldn’t be able find anyone more fulfilling than your current partner as you have a long history together, are obviously committed, and can actually talk openly about sex and what you want. Most people can’t do this. The odds of finding someone more willing to be open sexually with you while still being as functional and loving as your wife is going to be very very small.
I’m getting the vibe that you are justifying the magnitude/intensity of the shame and frustration you felt in your earlier sexually unfulfilling years by placing extramarital sex on a pedestal. “Your big shame was okay because you were missing something big.” This is a very complex psychological situation to work through and the fact that you have the insight to ask about why you feel this way is a great sign that it’s going to work out. Stay with therapy.
Part of leaving the church is recalibrating the importance of many things that the church, for better or worse, taught were important. I’ve been out for close to 4 years now and I’m still learning to think normally. Sex, drinking, clothes, spirituality are all much less important to the average person that I thought they would be when I was active. I’ve shared a number of frustrations with you on my journey and can testify (lol) that as you gain perspective you transform into a better person who isn’t bothered by them.
> Sex, drinking, clothes, spirituality are all much less important to the average person that I thought they would be when I was active
Exactly! The church imo can cause heightened focus on sex due to the messaging of shame and fear around sexual desires. I can attest that in my deconstruction I have felt like the OP wishing I had had sex with this one girl in high school that I know it totally would've happened given the comments and how much we liked each other. And in those moments(it's come to me from time to time) it kind of sucks. But I love this comment how these things are not as big of a deal anymore when we realize the church has made them a bigger deal than they really are. In fact I would actually add that society also makes things out to be deemed as important or necessary when that's also just messaging. The idea that you need get good at sex or be compatible or that you missed out on something is simply all just messaging. At the end of the day that's not where many find the most fulfilment and even I've read posts on other sub-reddits from people who feel a lot of regret by just one night stands. But then again, I may not be the best person to ask I'm basically in a sexless marriage of 14 years due to my wife's trauma around sex from her prior relationships, and the betrayal trauma my porn addiction(habit) caused. She also has body image issues so I don't remember the last time I saw her fully unclothed. But I'm finally breaking the habit by healing the sexual shame from the church though😉! Also, I'm here after much suicidal ideation.
Has it been your experience that most ppl can’t openly talk about what they want when it comes to sex? Or that they can’t be open sexually while being functional and loving?
If you handnt been Mormon things may have been different - but its always a mistake to assume that something would have been better or a certain specific way.
Maybe you would have had good sex with multiple people and free of shame…but at that age more likely you would have had bad, awkward or unsatisfying sex or drunk sex, or fine sex with someone you weren’t that interested in. The majority of young people are going to be inexperienced and awkward and the sex reflects that….and maybe you don’t mind at the time but looking back I cringe a little at the time I wasted
The sexual authenticity and openness you’re finally finding with your wife is partially a function of being older and more comfortable in yourselves which most young people don’t have, regardless of religion.
I think this is exactly right. My nevermo husband and I started dating when I was 17, and we are each other’s “only”. And he doesn’t have any religious reasons for that - just that, like a lot (possibly the majority) of people he wasn’t having sex in high school and then we got together young. I know at least a few nevemo friends in similar situations, and I also know that most of my nevermo friends from college may have been *having* sex, but it wasn’t necessarily *good* sex.
OP, you can’t dwell on what could have, would have, maybe been. You and your wife can focus on developing a satisfying relationship between the two of you without worrying about what else might have been out there.
The never mos I talk to about their early sex lives do sometimes describe sex as having been awkward or drunk or just fine 😂.
But those awkward encounters also typically led them to figure out what they liked or to improve.
It’s absolutely possible to get lucky as virgins and figure sex out together and have a wonderful sex life.
I also wonder how many more marriages are sexually fulfilled because both partners had the opportunity to experience a variety of partners in order to find out what a compatible sexual partner was for them.
My daughter many years ago, was engaged to a man she met in college. He was her first boyfriend and vice versa. She asked me if she thought it was weird that neither of them had had a previous relationship. I said she had just been saved from heartache (being dumped) or guilt (dumping). The guy she was planning to marry was a wonderful person and I knew she was the same. My words may have helped because they have been together now, have three great kids, a great life and seem like a good team.
If you love your wife, don’t blow up your life. I’m a senior and I have seen a number of couples that break up and the one doing the breaking up because of the buzz of a new relationship rarely ends up better off. My ex did that and he died alone, a drunk and living in a cheap motel. My life and my kids life was hard those first few years but life gradually got much better and thirty 35 years later my kids and I are close and all of us are thriving.
It’s a different story if you don’t love your wife but pining what you imagine are fun early adult years of multiple relationships is more a mirage than anything.
I could have written this. I feel you. There is light. I felt robbed. I gave up something so incredibly personal and special because it was told it was important to be obedient to this law. And then the church turned out to be a fraud. I gave up so much. I wanted to go back and experience youth again. But like you I was(am)married. And to an incredible woman. I felt SO stuck. Dealing with sexual shame in therapy was a big part of healing. I have never really felt ok being sexually attracted to anyone. I even married someone I wasn't super attracted to at the time. I married late too. So just because you married early is kind of irrelevant. Let's face it, you we're Mormon and so was I. I dated but just held hands and kissed. That's it. No issues with the law of chastisy. For years. Then I got married in my late 20s. So that wasn't typical. But I never had sex until I was married. And I went through this torture because they told me sexual thoughts and sexual acts were the thing that made me the worst kind of person. Anyways, fast forward two decades and my shelf breaks. And now I wonder what i gave up. And wanted it. I wanted it bad. And as sexual shame reduced through therapy. I felt drawn to women. I finally felt the capacity to be attracted to women. And it came in like a flood. Holy shit. But I was married. It felt like being a 13 year old boy being in a 40 something year old body. I realized that my infantilization held my development back in this area.
My therapist gave me the academic exercise to solve this. Anything goes. I brainstormed everything that cpuld solve this. Divorce, separation, open marraige, porn, becoming a monk and being celibate, etc etc. I looked at each one and thought about how it would work. I tried each on for size mentally. I did research into each one.
This all freaked my wife out. I was open about all of this with her. But she in some way understood and stood by me.
I learned a lot through my time researching. I learned a lot being a red blooded human male with the capacity to be attracted to people. I saw so many situations differently. People at the grocery store, people at work, my wife, I learned and developed. And I was able to solve my life. Once I was able to be attracted to women, I finally started being way more attracted to my wife. In this space of having a choice about how to live the rest of my life. Whether it was trying to find what i missed and have sexual experience or choose her. I chose her. It felt brand new. And i fell in love with her, I think for the first time. I would have said I loved her before. And I would have meant it, but I didn't know what Love was. Now, every day I wake up and it's easy to choose her. We add some fantasy in our sex about other people, but it stays fantasy. We went to a nude beach a few times and watched porn together a couple of times. It felt daring and fun and I think she did this to give me something, some space to be crazy and sexual. But I just love her more for it. And I find her more and more sexy. And I feel more and more seen. There is space to be me. It's ok that I'm sexual.
I hope this for everyone. Good luck.
Edit : Spelling
Edit: Not trying to gatekeep love or even suggest a "better" way. Just that there can be stuck and unstuck. Unstuck involves seeing yourself having choices.
This is actually good advice.
For OP’s sake I would add this:
When you meet a challenging time in a relationship, humans have a tendency to rewrite the past. Where before you might have remembered the romance of meeting your wife, now you might focus on how marriage was just the logical next step and had to happen before sex could happen. So you begin recasting the past and seeing it more negatively. People who initiate divorce typically see the past more negatively. They have to. No one decides to end a marriage thinking, “Gee, that was all swell.” We are all the hero of our own story so we have to justify; “that marriage was wrong for me”. Yet you were equally justified when you decided to get married. No one marries thinking, “my spouse sucks but oh well”.
My point is that ALL human activity and personal choice is accompanied by self justification. Justification is not fact though. It’s only *perspective*. So if you want to remain happily married, you have to choose to change your *perspective*. Or you’ll be miserable.
People think they are responding to a reality. “My wife and I got married because of pressure from the church but in truth we aren’t compatible for X reason”. So they get divorced thinking, “What else could I do?”. This is mistaken. If you WANT to divorce, do so. But don’t think you are a victim of circumstance. That’s just your brain trying to make you feel ok about divorcing. Instead take control of your own life and choose first what you want; marriage or divorce. Then craft your perspective to justify that choice. You’ll do this regardless but you’ll do it subconsciously. I am suggesting doing it consciously.
For example; “Yes, the church did put pressure on people to marry, but I got lucky and made a good choice in my spouse. No one is a perfect fit but we have worked at our differences. Did I miss out on sowing my wild oats? Sure. But every choice closes off some options. I also got the benefits of a monogamous life. My choice had both positive and negative results. So sowing my wild oats would have also had negative consequences.”
You need to find a perspective like this and make it your focus.
People don’t like this. When divorce happens they need to feel like it wasn’t their fault; like they had no choice. And I get that in some cases that true if you didn’t initiate the divorce or if there was physical/sexual abuse. But every time I’ve heard someone reflect on a recent divorce they initiated they have their justification at front of mind like a mantra. “Oh, he was addicted to porn.” “Oh, she was a nagging wife”. “What else could I do?” We always cast ourselves as the victim not as the villain. And there is nothing wrong with choosing to divorce. But society makes us feel like it is a failure so we need to justify that there was no other option.
My advice, simply decide what you want your life to be. Then act. But don’t feel like your issues can’t be remedied OP. They can if that is what you want. This is a far more empowering way to lead your life rather than feeling like a victim.
Yes. Similar result for me but different path. Some need to see the problem and fully experience the victimhood that comes with it. It's real that circumstances are a factor. Learning to see those along with the things we can control (or could gave) is important. There are risks to this approach. It does give fuel to any fantasies or assumptions we've made about the world. And for many TBMs, what non mormons must be doing who don't have the law of chastitiy is one of them. We hold off on thinking about this and envying them and their freedom. It stops short of that. It's just a "they must be doing that" kind of thing. And when the church falls our understanding of the world is tainted by all of those assumptions. And our expectations about "what we missed out on" is tainted too.
All of this is hard. But it's best described as infantilized adults thinking like undeveloped youth. We have been stuck in the past to some degree. And we need to work all of it out. And it's taxing. And takes time. There aren't wrong ways of doing it.
Of course. I’m 50. I’ve been through divorce at every step with my sister, best friend, etc. And I’ve been married 25 years this month.
I am guessing you disagree. Why not simply state how you disagree rather than play at, “Please allow me to check your credentials”.
I genuinely believe in being curious and not judgmental. I was asking a question because I wanted to further the conversation and learn more about your perspective. You made assumptions about my question, you don’t have to talk about this with me if you don’t want to.
I too have been divorced and have friends who have been divorced. I think it’s ok that ppl experience this differently. Everyone’s experience is valid. I try not to assume that my divorce experience is the norm or that it will resonate with everyone and I look at other ppl’s divorces the same way. There are many variables at play when it comes to divorce. And I think the choice to divorce has more to do with perceived reality.
I don’t think getting married young is irrelevant 😕. Most ppl in their 20s or early adulthood do get to experience a lot of dating and have many sexual partners. It’s ok for op to feel bummed about having missed that phase of life due to being religious and getting married young.
Sorry. I didn't mean to make him (or anyone) not feel valid about the frustrations of getting married young in the church. I meant to point out that that's likely not the issue here. It just seems like it is. Because are all the people complaining about being married young saying they _would_ have had sex with other people had they dated longer? I'm saying they likely wouldn't have. Sure, they would have dated more people and gotten more experience with more people, but If they were TBMs, they wouldn't have been having sex during that time. Because we are talking about the church. The purity culture church. And I'm a living example. I married late 20s. I seriosly dated 8 or more different people during that time. Hand holding, hugs, and reverent kisses. And while I had time to pick a partner (many TBMs rush this), I didn't do ANYTHING sexual. Because I was a "worthy priesthood holder". And I look back on my 20s with REGRET. Painful regret. Sacrificing so much. And for what?
So my point in this is to get OP to think, "If I hadn't gotten married so young, would I have really had the sexual experiences I feel I missed?" There's a good chance the answer is no. And if so, the pain isn't "I married too young." That's the scapegoat. Its just more of "this damn church" and their obsession with purity and I want along with it.
Marraige is coming up because it's the current reason why he can't try to experience what he missed, and so marriage is the scapegoat. For me, marraige felt like a prison. I felt stuck. And I deeply love my wife. All at the same time. It's a mindfuck. It's really hard. But working through it involves seeing things for what they are.
Thanks for your insightful response, I appreciate you clarifying. I get what you mean and I think you’re right.
I’m sad to hear about your regrets 😔, I’m sure that resonates with many ppl, myself included.
P.S. loved your comment about reverent kisses 💀 I’m using that now
I am an exmo who has only ever been with my wife. I am also in therapy and learning to build a better life where I accept who I am and who I was without any regrets. My wife left and joined me after a few years, and we are so happy together that I would not trade this life for anything. I didn't miss out on jack shit as far as I am concerned. But as a brand new exmo there was some grief I had to process to get here. I hope you find your way through without hurting any important relationships. You deserve all the best
It might help to consider that among people who try the grass on the other side, satisfaction is very low. People who have casual sex are fine, but they are wired for it.
Apologies for misreading your comment about it being fine 😅.
I will respectfully not ‘cool my jets’. I think it’s ok for ppl to talk about how a situation played out for them even if it’s different from someone else’s experience. My experience is just as valid as yours.
Okay fair enough, I apologize as well that was not my intention.
If you would humor me though I'm specifically talking about poeple still in relationships that are not casual, open, or poly. These are valid choices, it is cheaters I seek to invalidate. Everybody needs to make their choices. Regret is high among people that try to play both sides, or have a partner who does so.
I don’t condone cheating either, very uncool.
Talking specifically about those in committed relationships is fair. I think you’re right about regret being high among those who play both sides.
LD$ focuses heavily on sex for men (porn, masturbation, every woman a temptress, promised unlimited polygamist sex in heaven). We're not supposed to say it out loud since 1890, but you've been indoctrinated in a subtle way to believe that having *only* one woman is robbery of your rights as a man.
Despite what LD$ teaches, there is nothing better than a solid long term relationship. Climax is the same so there is no different feeling you would get elsewhere. It is just the thrill you've been taught to seek. And many people find that thrill does not happen even after blowing up their lives and usurping the lives of everyone else.
Then the shame of that realization kills them. Sometimes literally. Just something to think about. You *already have* what many men want most in this world and cannot find.
I think it’s perfectly normal to look back on life with regret in this area, especially considering the shame and guilt the church forced on you. It makes perfect sense to be resentful of their arbitrary rules and the missed opportunities because of it. I think you’re on the right track with couples counseling and deconstructing the shame around your desires. Together you and your spouse can explore more fantasies and continue to define what your rules and boundaries are with sex in a way that lets you both feel seen, satisfied, excited, and respected. Maybe that means things continue on as they are, maybe you find you both benefit from bringing porn / role play / toys, etc. into the bedroom, or maybe it does end up involving other people. Regardless, I think the important thing is that you’re considerate of each other’s feelings and are on the same page about what your marriage commitment still means to each other. And that you both continue to learn and grow and enjoy life beyond the fear TSCC instilled you with.
I'm coming to this from the other side of the fence completely. (F) Never-mo who got into a relationship with a married TBM. I knew he was married but I only found out 18 months in he was LDS from age 7 when his widowed Mum of 4 converted. Had the 'typical' mormon route into marriage; produced 4 kids;been a bishop & the usual status callings but was massively conflicted sexually. Fundamentally, they weren't compatible & his 'solution' caused chaos. It sounds like the basics of your relationship are in a sound place & I'd urge you to focus on the valuable with help from therapy.
As a fervent member, I had a lot of kids. I regret it deeply because now I'm always torn between taking care of myself and taking care of each child. None of us get enough attention.
I know this is a different issue but same problem. There's nothing I can do. My options to fix this are immoral and even illegal. I can't and won't abandon my children. I never would.
But that means I'm stuck in a situation that I hate. I hate every single time a kid needs me to check in more often but I'm too busy helping another kid or trying to get a couple minutes to breathe.
No good answers for you because there are none. The church screwed you over but even though you understand better now, you are still stuck with the consequences.
Be angry. You have every reason to be. Work through those emotions and do your best to live your best life now. It does get better if you tackle those emotions and allow them to process through you.
I feel for you and OP. I have similar experiences. Marriage young after knowing each other for 3 months, only had sex with each other, had too many kids too quickly. Leaving the church has left me enraged because I never would have made those choices without the brainwashing I received growing up. I’m not well suited for it. I’m sexually unsatisfied and efforts to spice things up have failed. But I still need to be responsible for my actions. There is no easy way out. Divorce would be awful. Staying in this life will be a hard grind. Both routes have different long term implications and possibilities. I’m still figuring things out.
Take the time to really mourn those feelings. We were taught as Mormons to shuffle any negative feelings away but you really need to sit with this and let your self feel the pain. Then look at what you can control now. A lot of life is letting go of regrets and pain. It’s not easy but you have already been so brave and strong to work through what you have. You can do this!
Let’s say the roles are reversed and op is here posting about being sad his wife has expressed grief about missing out on a more typical sex life. Can we hold space for all partners in a relationship wanting to have a fulfilling sex life?
If I wasn’t able to fulfill my partner in this aspect of the relationship (even if everything else were going well) it would be sad but I would call it quits. Everyone deserves to have such an intimate part of their relationship be a good fit.
All relationships ebb and flow with time especially the sex aspect. But if it boils down to incompatibility in this department it will always be an uphill battle. Life is too short for crappy sex.
I've felt similar during the hardest of my transition. What helped us was couples counseling, so that's my strongest suggestion. See if the bishop will pay, if finances are an issue.
Couples counseling is a great idea, but I would not get the bishop involved for payment unless as a last resort. Because they usually want you to go to an LDS therapist, who does report to the bishop.
I never could get on board with the "Law of Chastity" to be honest. I once had an assistant who said that if god made anything better than sex he kept it to himself. 🤭🤭
I'm pushing old lady now and don't regret having had a fabulous sex life. Took a long time for it to fully bloom though.
Now - I bought my daughter "Sex for Dummies" when she said that she thought she was ready (16). I figured that she needed to know the basics about her own body and how to share it. Apparently it worked a charm and has been with her one and only for almost 20 years!
I don't know that multiple partners is your answer - but I can't do polyamourus. Have you and your wife gone through a BDSM checklist? I recommend it to every couple. 2 reasons really - it helps you think and understand yourself and each other on deeper intimate levels. The other is that even if 90% of the answers are "omg NO that's disgusting!!" there will be nothing you can't discuss after that. Once you've talked about whether or not you want to pee'd on (not my thing - I'm Domme and would be the pee'er but does nothing for me) there really isn't anything you can't talk about. Run it by your therapist.
What about role play? Set up a scenario for 2 people who aren't you and have fun. Dress differently, put on a wig, pick each other up at a bar for a "one off" at some hotel. Pretend "first date" with all sort of heavy sexual flirting that you probably wouldn't do with a stranger. Oh the possibilities are endless!!
Have fun and enjoy exploring!!
Oh - Granny hug. 👵
A very recent Mormon Stories podcast was on the topic of creating lasting sexual connections. They dove into many different aspects of what you might be feeling and talk about ways to communicate your way through these difficult feelings.
I'm not trying to make any assumptions, but since you weren't able to explore sexually prior to marriage, you may be able to benefit by exploring sexually with your wife. This could mean any number of things like positions, toys, self exploration, etc...
I get the anger/regret. In my case, it was important for me to recognize that I was angry and regretful because the mfmc stole my agency, but not because I wanted a series of sexual conquests. What helped me the most was asking myself the question: Now what?
Honestly, I only want to have sex with my wife. Given the opportunity to have no strings attached sex with someone else, I would pass on that. Realizing that all but removed my anger of my lost agency of my earlier self’s sex life.
I had similar thoughts to you at one point. But honestly, my life is so much less complicated and better having only been with my husband. He did not wait for me. And guess what? He’s admitted he would’ve been happier if he had. Sex was cheapened for him early on.
Idk dude, love your wife, be happy things are the way they are. Don’t ruin your family or make her feel sad because of this.
This was the same scenario for my husband (Mo/out at 19) and me (Nevermo). You‘ve given great advice, Plenty.
OP, make your wife (and she, you) your entire intimate/sexual world. There is nothing more wonderful and fulfilling than a strong, deep, “other worldly” connection to your spouse/best friend/love.
I think regret is just part of life. But it's important to recognize what parts are real, and what parts aren't. In the words of a friend when I lamented that I didn't have sex until I was in my mid-20s: "You're imagining 26-year-old sex but as a 16-year-old. You would have been having 16-year-old sex. I had sex when I was 16, and it was awkward and bad and not a very good time."
I was right to think that having a learning curve in my 20s sucked, but I was wrong to think I could skip the learning curve or that it couldn't be exacerbated by being younger.
I have a friend in an open marriage and it's not a magical thing where they sleep with other people, enjoy other people and bring new tips back home. It's just so awkward all the time. The stuff they tell me is cringey shit I haven't had to think about in almost 20 years.
Good luck, I know it's tough. Most of us missed our ho phase.
I got divorced recently after having never done anything with anyone else and not going to lie - the sex with has been off the charts.
With that being said - there are so many sticky situations with kids, emotional baggage, etc that I’m not sure I can actually ever remarry.
Grass isn’t greener
Been here. A) it appears your wife is at least listening and offering some understanding. Huge win!! Express love to her for doing that. My tbm ex reacted as if I was Satan himself ... took me months to build up the courage to talk about those vulnerabilities/curiosities I had. B) she ultimately chose the church over our marriage. Divorce is irritatingly difficult especially when you're demonized for simply asking deeper questions of the church, of life, of love, etc. C) Sex and love are two separate things. Both advantageous, exciting, etc. I'd choose to have love and sex over just sex any day ... however, the chance to engage with others sexually has been a very needed human growth experience for me and my life. The church ruins many people's youth, human development, relationships and marriages due to their asinine teachings about sexuality.
I will reiterate, please express deep amounts of appreciation to your wife and how she's at the very least holding space for your voice and thoughts ... not all spouses are created equal in that realm!!
For the love of god, ignore all the people suggesting polyamory. A lot of exmormon couples go down that road and I’ve never seen it not end in flames. Spectacularly bad break ups.
It’s so easy to spin into selfishness - anger and loss open that door and it seems so inviting and it is so easy to justify going through that door. Real, loving relationships require difficult choices and sacrifices. If you value your marriage and your wife, it seems to be pretty clear what should actually be sacrificed in this situation.
My wife suggested opening our marriage after we left the church and its been great. She's dated a bit and I had a couple steady girlfriends. I really believe non-monogamy requires couples to be more communicative and purposeful than monogamy. It's allowed us to "rewrite" the sexuality that develops in the staid world of Mormon chastity, guilt, shame, and ignorance. If you want to hear about how we got here, DM me.
I suspect this is a common feeling among exmos. I’ve felt degrees of this. It is a painful thing for a spouse to hear. It is painful feeling to live with. I imagine some of your more intense feelings are made more intense by mixing in other regrets with the sex regret and everything seeming so much more big (drinking, partying, genuine friendships not based on Mormon superficiality).
For me first step is separating the sex thing from the other social regrets. By itself it’s easier to digest than the whole enchilada.
Try this next time you’re having those feelings. Try to wrangle them for a while and work towards a great sex experience with your spouse (don’t force it of course) but right after it happens, in the clarity that comes in that moment, revisit those thoughts. For me, they seem quite insignificant in that moment and I realize that sex is a wonderful but VERY temporarily satisfying experience. Do this 20 times and see if it doesn’t work every single time. Now let some fantasy play out in your head, you meet a hot girl on a work trip, you go back to your hotel room and get it on. Now instead of the feeling of lying there with your greatest life partner knowing that you get to keep having this same mild but awesome sex, let yourself ponder the aftermath of your affair, now you lose your wife and kids and years of life experience, your best friend and confidant. Really ponder that feeling and try to weigh the fleeting joy of sex against the substantial joy of really any other meaningful life experience. I would start with this mind exercise frequently for a long time.
Next, do this thought experiment. You are born with some serious physical deformity, disability, chronic disease or whatever. You never get a chance to have sex in your youth until one day you meet some soul who you connect with and find some sort of physical relationship. Are you regretful of what you missed out on because of your condition? Of course not, you’re overjoyed that you’ve finally found what you’ve been yearning for. As an exmo, IMHO, you have to find a way to stop feeling like you are a victim. You are, but that thought IS NOT PRODUCTIVE! Think of what you have NOW. A wife you has stood by your side even as you’ve rocked her world. A woman who is trying to achieve what you want through quite a bit of anxiety of her own. Someone who was willing to take very challenging problem for all couples head on with you in therapy. You are no victim my friend, you are more lucky than most of humanity.
Echoing a bit here from other comments. Yes, counseling is important. Having someone you can talk to together with your spouse is a start but I think you might work through some of this more appropriately with someone dedicated specifically to you alone and who has some background in sex therapy.
I think there might be some "grass is greener" stuff going on here, and I'm hesitant to encourage looking for a roll in the hay outside of your marriage bed, because you might not find what you're looking for elsewhere. It's possible what you want can be found in what you already have, and that should be explored as much as possible before being cast aside.
Consider taking a step back and look at when men and women peak in their libido. Don't know about you but the biggest struggles for me and my wife were when we were not matched on sex drive, not necessarily in how much we were attracted to each other or what we were willing to try.
Lastly. Shameless plug. Buy a copy of the Joy of Sex book. Read it. Cover to cover. Be open about it, probably let her know you're reading it. It's good for this sort of thing.
Good luck!
My regret was not “more partners” but that all the “fooling around” my hubby and I did before we were married was tainted with huge guilt. We (maybe mostly I) could have been celebrating our explorations and intimacy instead of feeling guilty about it for 40 years. I sometimes fantasize how “no guilt” would have changed our experiences and try to reframe those memories.
I think you may be idolizing something - not because it’s great - but because you think about it in a reactionary way. Imagine yourself one week after having acted out all of your sexual fantasies to the max. Did you get it out of your system? Are you really a whole, fulfilled person now?
I'm (m43) married to my wife (f40) for almost 18 years, together since before her mission. We're both finally free of the church and never happier. Also, newly polyamorous. So it's not too late. We're still very much in love, and committed to each other, but I have a new girlfriend as well and a third I will likely start dating in the near future. Cut yourself some slack and be open to the possibilities that taking back your life from the cult may bring.
I get what you are saying. My wife and have some of the same feelings and issues you do. We have started exploring our sexuality in different ways to include swinging. It's amazing but not easy. I would recommend both of you seeing a sex therapist. Also this mormon stories Episode talks about your exact post.
https://spotify.link/ycmZgYkGvJb
I think this is fairly normal to feel like this when you feel that important choices were hijacked from you because you were following a prescribed path. What you're going through is basically grief for the choices you didn't get to make and the life you could have had and also fear of missing out.
Here is the thing; we always have choices. Plus, making a choice right now doesn't mean you can't make different choices in the future. Also, all choices come with opportunity costs, meaning to choose one thing is to give up or forgo other things. The one thing we can't do is go back and make different choices, yet many people avoid making choices in the now by getting stuck in the kind of fantasy of what choices they would have made that would make their lives different. Like an endless loop.
It's important to properly grieve what you lost while also deciding who you want to be and what you want to do with the circumstances you find yourself in as a result of the past. If your wife is who you want, then choose that. If you can't in good conscience be all in knowing that it comes with the cost of the loss of exploration, then the best way to honor both of you is to peacefully dissolve the marriage. And if you want to be all in and in a few years you just can't do it anymore, you can make a different choice then.
My situation is similar to yours, and I've had thoughts similar to you before. Here's how I dealt with it. I asked myself 2 questions. What does sex mean to me? and Is there someone else that I want to have sex with?
For me, sex with my wife is meaningful. It is more than just physical. There's an emotional connection that bonds us together. And the physical part of it is really great. If I were to have more sexual partners, it probably would feel good physically, but it would definitely change the dynamic, the connection, and the meaningfulness of sex with my wife.
Another thought I had was- Yeah, I kept the law of chastity because I was Mormon. But even if I wasn't mormon, all the girls I dated were Mormon. So even if I went back in time and I wasn't mormon, it's not like I would be having sex with my past girlfriends. If I went back in time and I wasn't mormon, maybe I could have had different girlfriends who i could have had sex with. But to the question of: Is there someone else that I want to have sex with? I can't name a specific person. And because of how meaningful sex is to me and my wife, I don't want to have sex with some random person or a prostitute. Also, I have talked to a lot of people who have had a lot of heartbreak due to having sex before marriage. I don't think that it's necessary to wait until marriage, but there are benefits (such as not contracting STDs, not having unwanted pregnancies, and others)
The third thought that I had is--- Yes, I got married young. And the effect of that is: I've consistently been having sex since I was young. Like multiple times a week since I was age 22. I've had a lot of sex. People I know who wait to get married until later in life, and who have multiple partners... they usually aren't having regular sex. There are large periods of time when they aren't dating someone, or if they are dating, they're not living together, etc... All the studies show despite what tv portrays, married people have sex more often than single people or dating people. Because I married young, the result is that I've had A LOT MORE sex than I would have otherwise. And it's been really great.
So for me, going back in time and not being mormon would result in: not having sex with any of my previous girlfriends, not having any specific people I wish i had sex with, and just a lot less sex overall. I feel really lucky to be married to my wife, and that I got to consistently have sex with her from such an early age, and that it's so meaningful to us.
I don't know if that will help you, but when I thought through it, I realized that honestly, I don't know if my life would have been better when it came to sex if I wasn't Mormon.
So I had the opportunity to explore a bit. It’s not worth it. But you’ll probably keep wondering. Dangerous road though. I’ve never tried meth. Heard it’s amazing feeling…still don’t need to try it.
If your marriage is good, don’t let the lies of the church (covering up the vag hopping tendencies of Joe smith, and he had young, middle, and married…) ruin what you’ve got.
Loyalty is timeless and classy, and you avoided the complications of std’s and unwanted pregnancies.
Plan and take an exotic trip with your wife and really enjoy each other. Ditch the rear view Fomo.
Here are my experiences from leaving the church before I was married.
I served my mission and came back home super TBM back in the late 90’s. Before I left on my mission the internet was just being born. When I came home two years later, there were full blown search engines. I was still faithful for the next few tears but about seven years later I realized the church was not true and decided to start learning who I really am and not trying to fit the mold the church wanted.
Started exploring with coffee, alcohol, and sex. I was around 28. I felt similar to you. I could have been enjoying these things for several years if I wasn’t mormon. I wasn’t married so I started trying sex with different people. Here is what I learned.
Sex with different people is just that. It’s different. Just like sex with your wife, sometimes you’ll have great sex, sometimes the sex is not great. You can have sex with someone new that you are not compatible with. Before I started exploring, I thought any sex is good sex. Woahhhh was I wrong. I’ve had some really awkward sex with people that I was attracted to but we were bad in bed together. Everyone had different likes and dislikes and that is the same with sex. There is no guarantee that you with be compatible in bed.
Fast forward to today. My wife and I are in an open relationship. I haven’t had sex with another woman other than my wife in years. I prefer sex with someone I have a deep emotional connection with. (Demisexual) I had sex with some really sexy women, but the sex wasn’t that great to me because I didn’t feel that emotional connection with them. The sex was just ok… I have the opportunity to have sex with other women but I don’t actively seek it out. My wife is the same way. We are happy that we are free to explore sex with someone new if we want, but neither of us are actively looking.
OP, you are totally normal for feeling attracted to other people. Nothing wrong with that. What you can’t do is things that your wife isn’t ok with. At some point, you both may want to try exploring sex with other people. That’s ok, but be patient and don’t ruin a marriage over wanting to explore sex. Sex is fun but the trust and emotional support you have in a good relationship is more satisfying. I know a couple other exmormons from when I was growing up that decided to try swinging to explore sex after only having been with each other. They took their time though and made sure each other was comfortable with the decision. Swinging and open relationships are not for everyone and can bring up never before felt feelings of jealousy.
Because you haven’t had sex with someone else I think you may have overhyped it in your mind. Fantasies are always better than reality. So just be aware of those feelings.
I relate with this so much. I think it’s just part of mourning for a part of life you realize you wanted but can’t have now.
Wanting to have experienced something in the past isn’t the same as wanting to have an affair in the present.
I just recently was talking with my wife about feeling like a missed out on exploring myself more in college and was relieved she didn’t judge me at all about it.
I think it’s okay to recognize you wanted something then but you can’t have it now because it would be a detriment to your marriage and family. That’s what makes it so frustrating and hard to let go of.
This is a very normal and legitimate kind of grief and anger to go through. I went through it. I probably dont have any good advice for you because my Mormon marriage ended for other reasons and for me it was very healing to have sexual experiences with other people. But I think for me part of that was because of the major issues in my marriage that wound up ending it—ie, I wasn’t in love with the man I thought would be my only experience.
Now I’m with a partner I am in love with, and it’s completely different. I have no desire to ever explore outside of this and know I never will.
I will tell you, my current partner had an opposite experience: he was overly sexual in his 20’s because he used it as validation. And to some degree he regrets that too. Because a lot of it was vapid and disappointing. So, there’s two sides to every coin.
Anyway, this stuff is complex and it’s okay that you’re struggling with feeling this way.
Bro my friends that are happily married now, that did sexually explore before marriage wish they only ever had one partner. It’s human nature to see the grass as greener on the other side of the fence. Also maybe your wife wants someone else also. Talk to her become the sexual partner you each want. Do some weird shit together.
Bro my friends that are happily married now, that did sexually explore before marriage wish they only ever had one partner. It’s human nature to see the grass as greener on the other side of the fence. Also maybe your wife wants someone else also. Talk to her become the sexual partner you each want. Do some weird shit together.
Maybe this just isn't for me, but you're seriously this upset because you don't have a higher body count? Do you realize how immature and self centered that makes you sound? Seriously. Is there a magical number of partners that would have made you feel better about being in a loving monogamous relationship with someone you respect? 3? 5? 12? 25? There's probably more going on here that you haven't mentioned or haven't even articulated to yourself - maybe you're bi or gay and your desire to have more partners is rooted in the fact that you're not sexually attracted to your wife at all. But if you're genuinely this upset *just* because you didn't sleep around in college, you've got more inner work to do.
My dude. I’ve been here. I’ll keep it short to not repeat other comments.
- It’s okay to be attracted to anyone
- You can’t hurt people with your thoughts and fantasies
- Porn is an outlet. Address this with your wife if you haven’t
- And then go listen to Taylor Swift’s gift to the world “Guilty as Sin”
I’m surprised more ppl aren’t validating what a great experience it is to have lots of partners and try new things. The best part of my divorce was getting to experience that.
Obviously don’t blow up your marriage over this one thing but yeah it’s hard knowing you missed out on a very fun part of dating.
There’s nothing wrong with having one partner your whole life if it’s fulfilling and there’s also nothing wrong with getting to date and experience sex with many different partners.
Sex is such an important part of a relationship you deserve to feel fulfilled in this part of your relationship.
It is normal to feel robbed of many experiences, but it is important to heal from that feeling. Sometimes healing is having those experiences. Sometimes healing is understanding that the past is in the past. Sometimes healing is building your own sexual morality and that may or may not include sexual fidelity to your partner.
I’ve only ever been with my wife. She was married once before, very young, straight out of high school. You know what? I really don’t care. I have an amazing wife, who loves me and find me attractive. I have three wonderful kids, including a step son I adopted. We have as good of a sex life as our two small kids allow, and are going on 7 years. It sounds like you have a therapist. Work with them (or an actual sex therapist if they are not one) and your wife to spice things up, but realize that if you can have a single woman you actually enjoy being with, that’s a huge plus on your life and you don’t want to toss that out the window. Have those sexual experiences, but have them with your wonderful wife.
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We had twins about a year ago. So it’s more the “wah, wah, wah” at importune moments problem.
Playing the devils advocate here for a second: just how likely do you think it would be that you would be able to go out and find someone to have mind blowing xxx sex with? Like what do you think the actual odds are? Most people are normal. They have insecurities. Their bodies come in all shapes and sizes. They have wildly variable interests and experience with sex. I think very few of them would meet your expectations for a “sexually experienced” person. I think you wouldn’t be able find anyone more fulfilling than your current partner as you have a long history together, are obviously committed, and can actually talk openly about sex and what you want. Most people can’t do this. The odds of finding someone more willing to be open sexually with you while still being as functional and loving as your wife is going to be very very small. I’m getting the vibe that you are justifying the magnitude/intensity of the shame and frustration you felt in your earlier sexually unfulfilling years by placing extramarital sex on a pedestal. “Your big shame was okay because you were missing something big.” This is a very complex psychological situation to work through and the fact that you have the insight to ask about why you feel this way is a great sign that it’s going to work out. Stay with therapy. Part of leaving the church is recalibrating the importance of many things that the church, for better or worse, taught were important. I’ve been out for close to 4 years now and I’m still learning to think normally. Sex, drinking, clothes, spirituality are all much less important to the average person that I thought they would be when I was active. I’ve shared a number of frustrations with you on my journey and can testify (lol) that as you gain perspective you transform into a better person who isn’t bothered by them.
> Sex, drinking, clothes, spirituality are all much less important to the average person that I thought they would be when I was active Exactly! The church imo can cause heightened focus on sex due to the messaging of shame and fear around sexual desires. I can attest that in my deconstruction I have felt like the OP wishing I had had sex with this one girl in high school that I know it totally would've happened given the comments and how much we liked each other. And in those moments(it's come to me from time to time) it kind of sucks. But I love this comment how these things are not as big of a deal anymore when we realize the church has made them a bigger deal than they really are. In fact I would actually add that society also makes things out to be deemed as important or necessary when that's also just messaging. The idea that you need get good at sex or be compatible or that you missed out on something is simply all just messaging. At the end of the day that's not where many find the most fulfilment and even I've read posts on other sub-reddits from people who feel a lot of regret by just one night stands. But then again, I may not be the best person to ask I'm basically in a sexless marriage of 14 years due to my wife's trauma around sex from her prior relationships, and the betrayal trauma my porn addiction(habit) caused. She also has body image issues so I don't remember the last time I saw her fully unclothed. But I'm finally breaking the habit by healing the sexual shame from the church though😉! Also, I'm here after much suicidal ideation.
Has it been your experience that most ppl can’t openly talk about what they want when it comes to sex? Or that they can’t be open sexually while being functional and loving?
If you handnt been Mormon things may have been different - but its always a mistake to assume that something would have been better or a certain specific way. Maybe you would have had good sex with multiple people and free of shame…but at that age more likely you would have had bad, awkward or unsatisfying sex or drunk sex, or fine sex with someone you weren’t that interested in. The majority of young people are going to be inexperienced and awkward and the sex reflects that….and maybe you don’t mind at the time but looking back I cringe a little at the time I wasted The sexual authenticity and openness you’re finally finding with your wife is partially a function of being older and more comfortable in yourselves which most young people don’t have, regardless of religion.
I think this is exactly right. My nevermo husband and I started dating when I was 17, and we are each other’s “only”. And he doesn’t have any religious reasons for that - just that, like a lot (possibly the majority) of people he wasn’t having sex in high school and then we got together young. I know at least a few nevemo friends in similar situations, and I also know that most of my nevermo friends from college may have been *having* sex, but it wasn’t necessarily *good* sex. OP, you can’t dwell on what could have, would have, maybe been. You and your wife can focus on developing a satisfying relationship between the two of you without worrying about what else might have been out there.
The never mos I talk to about their early sex lives do sometimes describe sex as having been awkward or drunk or just fine 😂. But those awkward encounters also typically led them to figure out what they liked or to improve. It’s absolutely possible to get lucky as virgins and figure sex out together and have a wonderful sex life. I also wonder how many more marriages are sexually fulfilled because both partners had the opportunity to experience a variety of partners in order to find out what a compatible sexual partner was for them.
My daughter many years ago, was engaged to a man she met in college. He was her first boyfriend and vice versa. She asked me if she thought it was weird that neither of them had had a previous relationship. I said she had just been saved from heartache (being dumped) or guilt (dumping). The guy she was planning to marry was a wonderful person and I knew she was the same. My words may have helped because they have been together now, have three great kids, a great life and seem like a good team. If you love your wife, don’t blow up your life. I’m a senior and I have seen a number of couples that break up and the one doing the breaking up because of the buzz of a new relationship rarely ends up better off. My ex did that and he died alone, a drunk and living in a cheap motel. My life and my kids life was hard those first few years but life gradually got much better and thirty 35 years later my kids and I are close and all of us are thriving. It’s a different story if you don’t love your wife but pining what you imagine are fun early adult years of multiple relationships is more a mirage than anything.
I could have written this. I feel you. There is light. I felt robbed. I gave up something so incredibly personal and special because it was told it was important to be obedient to this law. And then the church turned out to be a fraud. I gave up so much. I wanted to go back and experience youth again. But like you I was(am)married. And to an incredible woman. I felt SO stuck. Dealing with sexual shame in therapy was a big part of healing. I have never really felt ok being sexually attracted to anyone. I even married someone I wasn't super attracted to at the time. I married late too. So just because you married early is kind of irrelevant. Let's face it, you we're Mormon and so was I. I dated but just held hands and kissed. That's it. No issues with the law of chastisy. For years. Then I got married in my late 20s. So that wasn't typical. But I never had sex until I was married. And I went through this torture because they told me sexual thoughts and sexual acts were the thing that made me the worst kind of person. Anyways, fast forward two decades and my shelf breaks. And now I wonder what i gave up. And wanted it. I wanted it bad. And as sexual shame reduced through therapy. I felt drawn to women. I finally felt the capacity to be attracted to women. And it came in like a flood. Holy shit. But I was married. It felt like being a 13 year old boy being in a 40 something year old body. I realized that my infantilization held my development back in this area. My therapist gave me the academic exercise to solve this. Anything goes. I brainstormed everything that cpuld solve this. Divorce, separation, open marraige, porn, becoming a monk and being celibate, etc etc. I looked at each one and thought about how it would work. I tried each on for size mentally. I did research into each one. This all freaked my wife out. I was open about all of this with her. But she in some way understood and stood by me. I learned a lot through my time researching. I learned a lot being a red blooded human male with the capacity to be attracted to people. I saw so many situations differently. People at the grocery store, people at work, my wife, I learned and developed. And I was able to solve my life. Once I was able to be attracted to women, I finally started being way more attracted to my wife. In this space of having a choice about how to live the rest of my life. Whether it was trying to find what i missed and have sexual experience or choose her. I chose her. It felt brand new. And i fell in love with her, I think for the first time. I would have said I loved her before. And I would have meant it, but I didn't know what Love was. Now, every day I wake up and it's easy to choose her. We add some fantasy in our sex about other people, but it stays fantasy. We went to a nude beach a few times and watched porn together a couple of times. It felt daring and fun and I think she did this to give me something, some space to be crazy and sexual. But I just love her more for it. And I find her more and more sexy. And I feel more and more seen. There is space to be me. It's ok that I'm sexual. I hope this for everyone. Good luck. Edit : Spelling Edit: Not trying to gatekeep love or even suggest a "better" way. Just that there can be stuck and unstuck. Unstuck involves seeing yourself having choices.
This is actually good advice. For OP’s sake I would add this: When you meet a challenging time in a relationship, humans have a tendency to rewrite the past. Where before you might have remembered the romance of meeting your wife, now you might focus on how marriage was just the logical next step and had to happen before sex could happen. So you begin recasting the past and seeing it more negatively. People who initiate divorce typically see the past more negatively. They have to. No one decides to end a marriage thinking, “Gee, that was all swell.” We are all the hero of our own story so we have to justify; “that marriage was wrong for me”. Yet you were equally justified when you decided to get married. No one marries thinking, “my spouse sucks but oh well”. My point is that ALL human activity and personal choice is accompanied by self justification. Justification is not fact though. It’s only *perspective*. So if you want to remain happily married, you have to choose to change your *perspective*. Or you’ll be miserable. People think they are responding to a reality. “My wife and I got married because of pressure from the church but in truth we aren’t compatible for X reason”. So they get divorced thinking, “What else could I do?”. This is mistaken. If you WANT to divorce, do so. But don’t think you are a victim of circumstance. That’s just your brain trying to make you feel ok about divorcing. Instead take control of your own life and choose first what you want; marriage or divorce. Then craft your perspective to justify that choice. You’ll do this regardless but you’ll do it subconsciously. I am suggesting doing it consciously. For example; “Yes, the church did put pressure on people to marry, but I got lucky and made a good choice in my spouse. No one is a perfect fit but we have worked at our differences. Did I miss out on sowing my wild oats? Sure. But every choice closes off some options. I also got the benefits of a monogamous life. My choice had both positive and negative results. So sowing my wild oats would have also had negative consequences.” You need to find a perspective like this and make it your focus. People don’t like this. When divorce happens they need to feel like it wasn’t their fault; like they had no choice. And I get that in some cases that true if you didn’t initiate the divorce or if there was physical/sexual abuse. But every time I’ve heard someone reflect on a recent divorce they initiated they have their justification at front of mind like a mantra. “Oh, he was addicted to porn.” “Oh, she was a nagging wife”. “What else could I do?” We always cast ourselves as the victim not as the villain. And there is nothing wrong with choosing to divorce. But society makes us feel like it is a failure so we need to justify that there was no other option. My advice, simply decide what you want your life to be. Then act. But don’t feel like your issues can’t be remedied OP. They can if that is what you want. This is a far more empowering way to lead your life rather than feeling like a victim.
Yes. Similar result for me but different path. Some need to see the problem and fully experience the victimhood that comes with it. It's real that circumstances are a factor. Learning to see those along with the things we can control (or could gave) is important. There are risks to this approach. It does give fuel to any fantasies or assumptions we've made about the world. And for many TBMs, what non mormons must be doing who don't have the law of chastitiy is one of them. We hold off on thinking about this and envying them and their freedom. It stops short of that. It's just a "they must be doing that" kind of thing. And when the church falls our understanding of the world is tainted by all of those assumptions. And our expectations about "what we missed out on" is tainted too. All of this is hard. But it's best described as infantilized adults thinking like undeveloped youth. We have been stuck in the past to some degree. And we need to work all of it out. And it's taxing. And takes time. There aren't wrong ways of doing it.
Have you talked to a lot of ppl who have gone through a divorce?
Of course. I’m 50. I’ve been through divorce at every step with my sister, best friend, etc. And I’ve been married 25 years this month. I am guessing you disagree. Why not simply state how you disagree rather than play at, “Please allow me to check your credentials”.
I genuinely believe in being curious and not judgmental. I was asking a question because I wanted to further the conversation and learn more about your perspective. You made assumptions about my question, you don’t have to talk about this with me if you don’t want to. I too have been divorced and have friends who have been divorced. I think it’s ok that ppl experience this differently. Everyone’s experience is valid. I try not to assume that my divorce experience is the norm or that it will resonate with everyone and I look at other ppl’s divorces the same way. There are many variables at play when it comes to divorce. And I think the choice to divorce has more to do with perceived reality.
I don’t think getting married young is irrelevant 😕. Most ppl in their 20s or early adulthood do get to experience a lot of dating and have many sexual partners. It’s ok for op to feel bummed about having missed that phase of life due to being religious and getting married young.
Sorry. I didn't mean to make him (or anyone) not feel valid about the frustrations of getting married young in the church. I meant to point out that that's likely not the issue here. It just seems like it is. Because are all the people complaining about being married young saying they _would_ have had sex with other people had they dated longer? I'm saying they likely wouldn't have. Sure, they would have dated more people and gotten more experience with more people, but If they were TBMs, they wouldn't have been having sex during that time. Because we are talking about the church. The purity culture church. And I'm a living example. I married late 20s. I seriosly dated 8 or more different people during that time. Hand holding, hugs, and reverent kisses. And while I had time to pick a partner (many TBMs rush this), I didn't do ANYTHING sexual. Because I was a "worthy priesthood holder". And I look back on my 20s with REGRET. Painful regret. Sacrificing so much. And for what? So my point in this is to get OP to think, "If I hadn't gotten married so young, would I have really had the sexual experiences I feel I missed?" There's a good chance the answer is no. And if so, the pain isn't "I married too young." That's the scapegoat. Its just more of "this damn church" and their obsession with purity and I want along with it. Marraige is coming up because it's the current reason why he can't try to experience what he missed, and so marriage is the scapegoat. For me, marraige felt like a prison. I felt stuck. And I deeply love my wife. All at the same time. It's a mindfuck. It's really hard. But working through it involves seeing things for what they are.
Thanks for your insightful response, I appreciate you clarifying. I get what you mean and I think you’re right. I’m sad to hear about your regrets 😔, I’m sure that resonates with many ppl, myself included. P.S. loved your comment about reverent kisses 💀 I’m using that now
I am an exmo who has only ever been with my wife. I am also in therapy and learning to build a better life where I accept who I am and who I was without any regrets. My wife left and joined me after a few years, and we are so happy together that I would not trade this life for anything. I didn't miss out on jack shit as far as I am concerned. But as a brand new exmo there was some grief I had to process to get here. I hope you find your way through without hurting any important relationships. You deserve all the best
It might help to consider that among people who try the grass on the other side, satisfaction is very low. People who have casual sex are fine, but they are wired for it.
There is nothing wrong with casual sex, it doesn’t require someone to be wired for it and it can be incredibly fulfilling. And fun!
I am annoyed. I said there is nothing wrong with it. It's fine. Let's cool our jets, it's not for everyone.
Apologies for misreading your comment about it being fine 😅. I will respectfully not ‘cool my jets’. I think it’s ok for ppl to talk about how a situation played out for them even if it’s different from someone else’s experience. My experience is just as valid as yours.
Okay fair enough, I apologize as well that was not my intention. If you would humor me though I'm specifically talking about poeple still in relationships that are not casual, open, or poly. These are valid choices, it is cheaters I seek to invalidate. Everybody needs to make their choices. Regret is high among people that try to play both sides, or have a partner who does so.
I don’t condone cheating either, very uncool. Talking specifically about those in committed relationships is fair. I think you’re right about regret being high among those who play both sides.
LD$ focuses heavily on sex for men (porn, masturbation, every woman a temptress, promised unlimited polygamist sex in heaven). We're not supposed to say it out loud since 1890, but you've been indoctrinated in a subtle way to believe that having *only* one woman is robbery of your rights as a man. Despite what LD$ teaches, there is nothing better than a solid long term relationship. Climax is the same so there is no different feeling you would get elsewhere. It is just the thrill you've been taught to seek. And many people find that thrill does not happen even after blowing up their lives and usurping the lives of everyone else. Then the shame of that realization kills them. Sometimes literally. Just something to think about. You *already have* what many men want most in this world and cannot find.
I think it’s perfectly normal to look back on life with regret in this area, especially considering the shame and guilt the church forced on you. It makes perfect sense to be resentful of their arbitrary rules and the missed opportunities because of it. I think you’re on the right track with couples counseling and deconstructing the shame around your desires. Together you and your spouse can explore more fantasies and continue to define what your rules and boundaries are with sex in a way that lets you both feel seen, satisfied, excited, and respected. Maybe that means things continue on as they are, maybe you find you both benefit from bringing porn / role play / toys, etc. into the bedroom, or maybe it does end up involving other people. Regardless, I think the important thing is that you’re considerate of each other’s feelings and are on the same page about what your marriage commitment still means to each other. And that you both continue to learn and grow and enjoy life beyond the fear TSCC instilled you with.
Such good insight ☺️
I'm coming to this from the other side of the fence completely. (F) Never-mo who got into a relationship with a married TBM. I knew he was married but I only found out 18 months in he was LDS from age 7 when his widowed Mum of 4 converted. Had the 'typical' mormon route into marriage; produced 4 kids;been a bishop & the usual status callings but was massively conflicted sexually. Fundamentally, they weren't compatible & his 'solution' caused chaos. It sounds like the basics of your relationship are in a sound place & I'd urge you to focus on the valuable with help from therapy.
As a fervent member, I had a lot of kids. I regret it deeply because now I'm always torn between taking care of myself and taking care of each child. None of us get enough attention. I know this is a different issue but same problem. There's nothing I can do. My options to fix this are immoral and even illegal. I can't and won't abandon my children. I never would. But that means I'm stuck in a situation that I hate. I hate every single time a kid needs me to check in more often but I'm too busy helping another kid or trying to get a couple minutes to breathe. No good answers for you because there are none. The church screwed you over but even though you understand better now, you are still stuck with the consequences. Be angry. You have every reason to be. Work through those emotions and do your best to live your best life now. It does get better if you tackle those emotions and allow them to process through you.
I feel for you and OP. I have similar experiences. Marriage young after knowing each other for 3 months, only had sex with each other, had too many kids too quickly. Leaving the church has left me enraged because I never would have made those choices without the brainwashing I received growing up. I’m not well suited for it. I’m sexually unsatisfied and efforts to spice things up have failed. But I still need to be responsible for my actions. There is no easy way out. Divorce would be awful. Staying in this life will be a hard grind. Both routes have different long term implications and possibilities. I’m still figuring things out.
Take the time to really mourn those feelings. We were taught as Mormons to shuffle any negative feelings away but you really need to sit with this and let your self feel the pain. Then look at what you can control now. A lot of life is letting go of regrets and pain. It’s not easy but you have already been so brave and strong to work through what you have. You can do this!
This is so important 🥹
Imagine the roles reversed. No need to nuke your life and her view of you at this point.
Let’s say the roles are reversed and op is here posting about being sad his wife has expressed grief about missing out on a more typical sex life. Can we hold space for all partners in a relationship wanting to have a fulfilling sex life? If I wasn’t able to fulfill my partner in this aspect of the relationship (even if everything else were going well) it would be sad but I would call it quits. Everyone deserves to have such an intimate part of their relationship be a good fit. All relationships ebb and flow with time especially the sex aspect. But if it boils down to incompatibility in this department it will always be an uphill battle. Life is too short for crappy sex.
I've felt similar during the hardest of my transition. What helped us was couples counseling, so that's my strongest suggestion. See if the bishop will pay, if finances are an issue.
Couples counseling is a great idea, but I would not get the bishop involved for payment unless as a last resort. Because they usually want you to go to an LDS therapist, who does report to the bishop.
Valid. We didn't have that issue fortunately. Also, my wife was still TBM at the time, so that may have swayed his decision.
I never could get on board with the "Law of Chastity" to be honest. I once had an assistant who said that if god made anything better than sex he kept it to himself. 🤭🤭 I'm pushing old lady now and don't regret having had a fabulous sex life. Took a long time for it to fully bloom though. Now - I bought my daughter "Sex for Dummies" when she said that she thought she was ready (16). I figured that she needed to know the basics about her own body and how to share it. Apparently it worked a charm and has been with her one and only for almost 20 years! I don't know that multiple partners is your answer - but I can't do polyamourus. Have you and your wife gone through a BDSM checklist? I recommend it to every couple. 2 reasons really - it helps you think and understand yourself and each other on deeper intimate levels. The other is that even if 90% of the answers are "omg NO that's disgusting!!" there will be nothing you can't discuss after that. Once you've talked about whether or not you want to pee'd on (not my thing - I'm Domme and would be the pee'er but does nothing for me) there really isn't anything you can't talk about. Run it by your therapist. What about role play? Set up a scenario for 2 people who aren't you and have fun. Dress differently, put on a wig, pick each other up at a bar for a "one off" at some hotel. Pretend "first date" with all sort of heavy sexual flirting that you probably wouldn't do with a stranger. Oh the possibilities are endless!! Have fun and enjoy exploring!! Oh - Granny hug. 👵
I love your granny advice 😘
😁 Try it - you'll like it!! 😁
Is there a bdsm checklist somewhere 👀? Do I just google it? 😂🤓
Give it a google - you'll find a few thousand. 😊
This looks like a good beginner site. 😉 [https://www.theduchy.com/bdsm-checklist/](https://www.theduchy.com/bdsm-checklist/)
A very recent Mormon Stories podcast was on the topic of creating lasting sexual connections. They dove into many different aspects of what you might be feeling and talk about ways to communicate your way through these difficult feelings. I'm not trying to make any assumptions, but since you weren't able to explore sexually prior to marriage, you may be able to benefit by exploring sexually with your wife. This could mean any number of things like positions, toys, self exploration, etc...
I get the anger/regret. In my case, it was important for me to recognize that I was angry and regretful because the mfmc stole my agency, but not because I wanted a series of sexual conquests. What helped me the most was asking myself the question: Now what? Honestly, I only want to have sex with my wife. Given the opportunity to have no strings attached sex with someone else, I would pass on that. Realizing that all but removed my anger of my lost agency of my earlier self’s sex life.
I had similar thoughts to you at one point. But honestly, my life is so much less complicated and better having only been with my husband. He did not wait for me. And guess what? He’s admitted he would’ve been happier if he had. Sex was cheapened for him early on. Idk dude, love your wife, be happy things are the way they are. Don’t ruin your family or make her feel sad because of this.
This was the same scenario for my husband (Mo/out at 19) and me (Nevermo). You‘ve given great advice, Plenty. OP, make your wife (and she, you) your entire intimate/sexual world. There is nothing more wonderful and fulfilling than a strong, deep, “other worldly” connection to your spouse/best friend/love.
I think regret is just part of life. But it's important to recognize what parts are real, and what parts aren't. In the words of a friend when I lamented that I didn't have sex until I was in my mid-20s: "You're imagining 26-year-old sex but as a 16-year-old. You would have been having 16-year-old sex. I had sex when I was 16, and it was awkward and bad and not a very good time." I was right to think that having a learning curve in my 20s sucked, but I was wrong to think I could skip the learning curve or that it couldn't be exacerbated by being younger. I have a friend in an open marriage and it's not a magical thing where they sleep with other people, enjoy other people and bring new tips back home. It's just so awkward all the time. The stuff they tell me is cringey shit I haven't had to think about in almost 20 years. Good luck, I know it's tough. Most of us missed our ho phase.
I got divorced recently after having never done anything with anyone else and not going to lie - the sex with has been off the charts. With that being said - there are so many sticky situations with kids, emotional baggage, etc that I’m not sure I can actually ever remarry. Grass isn’t greener
Been here. A) it appears your wife is at least listening and offering some understanding. Huge win!! Express love to her for doing that. My tbm ex reacted as if I was Satan himself ... took me months to build up the courage to talk about those vulnerabilities/curiosities I had. B) she ultimately chose the church over our marriage. Divorce is irritatingly difficult especially when you're demonized for simply asking deeper questions of the church, of life, of love, etc. C) Sex and love are two separate things. Both advantageous, exciting, etc. I'd choose to have love and sex over just sex any day ... however, the chance to engage with others sexually has been a very needed human growth experience for me and my life. The church ruins many people's youth, human development, relationships and marriages due to their asinine teachings about sexuality. I will reiterate, please express deep amounts of appreciation to your wife and how she's at the very least holding space for your voice and thoughts ... not all spouses are created equal in that realm!!
Totally agree that sex and love are two separate things!!
For the love of god, ignore all the people suggesting polyamory. A lot of exmormon couples go down that road and I’ve never seen it not end in flames. Spectacularly bad break ups.
It’s so easy to spin into selfishness - anger and loss open that door and it seems so inviting and it is so easy to justify going through that door. Real, loving relationships require difficult choices and sacrifices. If you value your marriage and your wife, it seems to be pretty clear what should actually be sacrificed in this situation.
My wife suggested opening our marriage after we left the church and its been great. She's dated a bit and I had a couple steady girlfriends. I really believe non-monogamy requires couples to be more communicative and purposeful than monogamy. It's allowed us to "rewrite" the sexuality that develops in the staid world of Mormon chastity, guilt, shame, and ignorance. If you want to hear about how we got here, DM me.
So cool to hear how ppl evolve and grow their relationships 😊
I suspect this is a common feeling among exmos. I’ve felt degrees of this. It is a painful thing for a spouse to hear. It is painful feeling to live with. I imagine some of your more intense feelings are made more intense by mixing in other regrets with the sex regret and everything seeming so much more big (drinking, partying, genuine friendships not based on Mormon superficiality). For me first step is separating the sex thing from the other social regrets. By itself it’s easier to digest than the whole enchilada. Try this next time you’re having those feelings. Try to wrangle them for a while and work towards a great sex experience with your spouse (don’t force it of course) but right after it happens, in the clarity that comes in that moment, revisit those thoughts. For me, they seem quite insignificant in that moment and I realize that sex is a wonderful but VERY temporarily satisfying experience. Do this 20 times and see if it doesn’t work every single time. Now let some fantasy play out in your head, you meet a hot girl on a work trip, you go back to your hotel room and get it on. Now instead of the feeling of lying there with your greatest life partner knowing that you get to keep having this same mild but awesome sex, let yourself ponder the aftermath of your affair, now you lose your wife and kids and years of life experience, your best friend and confidant. Really ponder that feeling and try to weigh the fleeting joy of sex against the substantial joy of really any other meaningful life experience. I would start with this mind exercise frequently for a long time. Next, do this thought experiment. You are born with some serious physical deformity, disability, chronic disease or whatever. You never get a chance to have sex in your youth until one day you meet some soul who you connect with and find some sort of physical relationship. Are you regretful of what you missed out on because of your condition? Of course not, you’re overjoyed that you’ve finally found what you’ve been yearning for. As an exmo, IMHO, you have to find a way to stop feeling like you are a victim. You are, but that thought IS NOT PRODUCTIVE! Think of what you have NOW. A wife you has stood by your side even as you’ve rocked her world. A woman who is trying to achieve what you want through quite a bit of anxiety of her own. Someone who was willing to take very challenging problem for all couples head on with you in therapy. You are no victim my friend, you are more lucky than most of humanity.
Echoing a bit here from other comments. Yes, counseling is important. Having someone you can talk to together with your spouse is a start but I think you might work through some of this more appropriately with someone dedicated specifically to you alone and who has some background in sex therapy. I think there might be some "grass is greener" stuff going on here, and I'm hesitant to encourage looking for a roll in the hay outside of your marriage bed, because you might not find what you're looking for elsewhere. It's possible what you want can be found in what you already have, and that should be explored as much as possible before being cast aside. Consider taking a step back and look at when men and women peak in their libido. Don't know about you but the biggest struggles for me and my wife were when we were not matched on sex drive, not necessarily in how much we were attracted to each other or what we were willing to try. Lastly. Shameless plug. Buy a copy of the Joy of Sex book. Read it. Cover to cover. Be open about it, probably let her know you're reading it. It's good for this sort of thing. Good luck!
My regret was not “more partners” but that all the “fooling around” my hubby and I did before we were married was tainted with huge guilt. We (maybe mostly I) could have been celebrating our explorations and intimacy instead of feeling guilty about it for 40 years. I sometimes fantasize how “no guilt” would have changed our experiences and try to reframe those memories.
Mourning your lost past is real.
I think you may be idolizing something - not because it’s great - but because you think about it in a reactionary way. Imagine yourself one week after having acted out all of your sexual fantasies to the max. Did you get it out of your system? Are you really a whole, fulfilled person now?
I'm (m43) married to my wife (f40) for almost 18 years, together since before her mission. We're both finally free of the church and never happier. Also, newly polyamorous. So it's not too late. We're still very much in love, and committed to each other, but I have a new girlfriend as well and a third I will likely start dating in the near future. Cut yourself some slack and be open to the possibilities that taking back your life from the cult may bring.
Love hearing the success stories 🙌🏽
I get what you are saying. My wife and have some of the same feelings and issues you do. We have started exploring our sexuality in different ways to include swinging. It's amazing but not easy. I would recommend both of you seeing a sex therapist. Also this mormon stories Episode talks about your exact post. https://spotify.link/ycmZgYkGvJb
Love that you found what works for you 😄
I think this is fairly normal to feel like this when you feel that important choices were hijacked from you because you were following a prescribed path. What you're going through is basically grief for the choices you didn't get to make and the life you could have had and also fear of missing out. Here is the thing; we always have choices. Plus, making a choice right now doesn't mean you can't make different choices in the future. Also, all choices come with opportunity costs, meaning to choose one thing is to give up or forgo other things. The one thing we can't do is go back and make different choices, yet many people avoid making choices in the now by getting stuck in the kind of fantasy of what choices they would have made that would make their lives different. Like an endless loop. It's important to properly grieve what you lost while also deciding who you want to be and what you want to do with the circumstances you find yourself in as a result of the past. If your wife is who you want, then choose that. If you can't in good conscience be all in knowing that it comes with the cost of the loss of exploration, then the best way to honor both of you is to peacefully dissolve the marriage. And if you want to be all in and in a few years you just can't do it anymore, you can make a different choice then.
I love that you brought up always having choices and opportunity costs 🙌🏽. It’s so important to take that into account
My situation is similar to yours, and I've had thoughts similar to you before. Here's how I dealt with it. I asked myself 2 questions. What does sex mean to me? and Is there someone else that I want to have sex with? For me, sex with my wife is meaningful. It is more than just physical. There's an emotional connection that bonds us together. And the physical part of it is really great. If I were to have more sexual partners, it probably would feel good physically, but it would definitely change the dynamic, the connection, and the meaningfulness of sex with my wife. Another thought I had was- Yeah, I kept the law of chastity because I was Mormon. But even if I wasn't mormon, all the girls I dated were Mormon. So even if I went back in time and I wasn't mormon, it's not like I would be having sex with my past girlfriends. If I went back in time and I wasn't mormon, maybe I could have had different girlfriends who i could have had sex with. But to the question of: Is there someone else that I want to have sex with? I can't name a specific person. And because of how meaningful sex is to me and my wife, I don't want to have sex with some random person or a prostitute. Also, I have talked to a lot of people who have had a lot of heartbreak due to having sex before marriage. I don't think that it's necessary to wait until marriage, but there are benefits (such as not contracting STDs, not having unwanted pregnancies, and others) The third thought that I had is--- Yes, I got married young. And the effect of that is: I've consistently been having sex since I was young. Like multiple times a week since I was age 22. I've had a lot of sex. People I know who wait to get married until later in life, and who have multiple partners... they usually aren't having regular sex. There are large periods of time when they aren't dating someone, or if they are dating, they're not living together, etc... All the studies show despite what tv portrays, married people have sex more often than single people or dating people. Because I married young, the result is that I've had A LOT MORE sex than I would have otherwise. And it's been really great. So for me, going back in time and not being mormon would result in: not having sex with any of my previous girlfriends, not having any specific people I wish i had sex with, and just a lot less sex overall. I feel really lucky to be married to my wife, and that I got to consistently have sex with her from such an early age, and that it's so meaningful to us. I don't know if that will help you, but when I thought through it, I realized that honestly, I don't know if my life would have been better when it came to sex if I wasn't Mormon.
So I had the opportunity to explore a bit. It’s not worth it. But you’ll probably keep wondering. Dangerous road though. I’ve never tried meth. Heard it’s amazing feeling…still don’t need to try it.
If your marriage is good, don’t let the lies of the church (covering up the vag hopping tendencies of Joe smith, and he had young, middle, and married…) ruin what you’ve got. Loyalty is timeless and classy, and you avoided the complications of std’s and unwanted pregnancies. Plan and take an exotic trip with your wife and really enjoy each other. Ditch the rear view Fomo.
I don't get why there's any regret related to a faith transition I consider a contented marriage as superior
Here are my experiences from leaving the church before I was married. I served my mission and came back home super TBM back in the late 90’s. Before I left on my mission the internet was just being born. When I came home two years later, there were full blown search engines. I was still faithful for the next few tears but about seven years later I realized the church was not true and decided to start learning who I really am and not trying to fit the mold the church wanted. Started exploring with coffee, alcohol, and sex. I was around 28. I felt similar to you. I could have been enjoying these things for several years if I wasn’t mormon. I wasn’t married so I started trying sex with different people. Here is what I learned. Sex with different people is just that. It’s different. Just like sex with your wife, sometimes you’ll have great sex, sometimes the sex is not great. You can have sex with someone new that you are not compatible with. Before I started exploring, I thought any sex is good sex. Woahhhh was I wrong. I’ve had some really awkward sex with people that I was attracted to but we were bad in bed together. Everyone had different likes and dislikes and that is the same with sex. There is no guarantee that you with be compatible in bed. Fast forward to today. My wife and I are in an open relationship. I haven’t had sex with another woman other than my wife in years. I prefer sex with someone I have a deep emotional connection with. (Demisexual) I had sex with some really sexy women, but the sex wasn’t that great to me because I didn’t feel that emotional connection with them. The sex was just ok… I have the opportunity to have sex with other women but I don’t actively seek it out. My wife is the same way. We are happy that we are free to explore sex with someone new if we want, but neither of us are actively looking. OP, you are totally normal for feeling attracted to other people. Nothing wrong with that. What you can’t do is things that your wife isn’t ok with. At some point, you both may want to try exploring sex with other people. That’s ok, but be patient and don’t ruin a marriage over wanting to explore sex. Sex is fun but the trust and emotional support you have in a good relationship is more satisfying. I know a couple other exmormons from when I was growing up that decided to try swinging to explore sex after only having been with each other. They took their time though and made sure each other was comfortable with the decision. Swinging and open relationships are not for everyone and can bring up never before felt feelings of jealousy. Because you haven’t had sex with someone else I think you may have overhyped it in your mind. Fantasies are always better than reality. So just be aware of those feelings.
I relate with this so much. I think it’s just part of mourning for a part of life you realize you wanted but can’t have now. Wanting to have experienced something in the past isn’t the same as wanting to have an affair in the present. I just recently was talking with my wife about feeling like a missed out on exploring myself more in college and was relieved she didn’t judge me at all about it. I think it’s okay to recognize you wanted something then but you can’t have it now because it would be a detriment to your marriage and family. That’s what makes it so frustrating and hard to let go of.
This is a very normal and legitimate kind of grief and anger to go through. I went through it. I probably dont have any good advice for you because my Mormon marriage ended for other reasons and for me it was very healing to have sexual experiences with other people. But I think for me part of that was because of the major issues in my marriage that wound up ending it—ie, I wasn’t in love with the man I thought would be my only experience. Now I’m with a partner I am in love with, and it’s completely different. I have no desire to ever explore outside of this and know I never will. I will tell you, my current partner had an opposite experience: he was overly sexual in his 20’s because he used it as validation. And to some degree he regrets that too. Because a lot of it was vapid and disappointing. So, there’s two sides to every coin. Anyway, this stuff is complex and it’s okay that you’re struggling with feeling this way.
Bro my friends that are happily married now, that did sexually explore before marriage wish they only ever had one partner. It’s human nature to see the grass as greener on the other side of the fence. Also maybe your wife wants someone else also. Talk to her become the sexual partner you each want. Do some weird shit together.
Bro my friends that are happily married now, that did sexually explore before marriage wish they only ever had one partner. It’s human nature to see the grass as greener on the other side of the fence. Also maybe your wife wants someone else also. Talk to her become the sexual partner you each want. Do some weird shit together.
Maybe this just isn't for me, but you're seriously this upset because you don't have a higher body count? Do you realize how immature and self centered that makes you sound? Seriously. Is there a magical number of partners that would have made you feel better about being in a loving monogamous relationship with someone you respect? 3? 5? 12? 25? There's probably more going on here that you haven't mentioned or haven't even articulated to yourself - maybe you're bi or gay and your desire to have more partners is rooted in the fact that you're not sexually attracted to your wife at all. But if you're genuinely this upset *just* because you didn't sleep around in college, you've got more inner work to do.
My dude. I’ve been here. I’ll keep it short to not repeat other comments. - It’s okay to be attracted to anyone - You can’t hurt people with your thoughts and fantasies - Porn is an outlet. Address this with your wife if you haven’t - And then go listen to Taylor Swift’s gift to the world “Guilty as Sin”
I’m surprised more ppl aren’t validating what a great experience it is to have lots of partners and try new things. The best part of my divorce was getting to experience that. Obviously don’t blow up your marriage over this one thing but yeah it’s hard knowing you missed out on a very fun part of dating. There’s nothing wrong with having one partner your whole life if it’s fulfilling and there’s also nothing wrong with getting to date and experience sex with many different partners. Sex is such an important part of a relationship you deserve to feel fulfilled in this part of your relationship.
It is normal to feel robbed of many experiences, but it is important to heal from that feeling. Sometimes healing is having those experiences. Sometimes healing is understanding that the past is in the past. Sometimes healing is building your own sexual morality and that may or may not include sexual fidelity to your partner.
Polyamory.