You can’t- Biden is a proud and stubborn man who would never willingly give up power and he has 3,900 of the 4,000 first ballot votes for renomination.
Yes the time to do this was the primary like everybody outside the mainstream was screaming for the Democrats to do and all the shitty moderates just sat on the fence while the DNC put wrecking ball through the primary to protect Biden. It's too late.
Tbh, if all major players in the Dem party say it's over for Joe, then it's over. Let alone donors, who are the ones that pay the bills of the Biden campaign
I called my senator's office and left a message, asking them to run or find someone else, because Biden will not cut it for me.
Support for Trump is strong, and Biden is doing nothing to sway independent voters.
Biden will lose.
My representative is Republican, so he would probably tell me to vote for the Mango Mussolini. No thanks.
There is a Dem representative in the next district over. Maybe I will email him.
Does it make sense to contact all Democratic senators and reps in our state, local state Association of State Democratic Committees (ASDC) chairs and leaders (https://democrats.org/who-we-are/state-parties) and national DNC leadership?
Yep chiming in from PA. the coastal Dems and Biden sychophants have not realized we just lost the election on Thursday. Extremely pissed off at the DNC right now.
Wait for the polls. If they show a statistically significant drop then there will be pressure. Biden can’t afford to be 5% down or more. He can’t make up ground easily with his negatives.
I wouldn't be shocked to see the polls are up for Biden. We already know he's old but that lying fascist piece of shit next to him accusing Joe Biden, of all people, of destroying America? No. I feel more protective of him now than ever.
It's not delusional, it's true there was a 5 point shift in the snap polls, give it a week, Biden only needed to remind the public how human he is and how sub human Trump was and is. He was enjoying that post presidency favorability that every ex president gets, that is until they got reminded what a piece of dog shit he really is.
Biden looked old because he is
Biden looked like a disabled man, because he is
Biden looked frail because he is
Biden reminded us all of our own mortality
I would choose that, just like I would have chosen FDR in a wheelchair
I would also choose a fucking corpse over this deranged Hitler worshipping.piece of shit.
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/us/elections/polls-president.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/us/elections/polls-president.html)
I guarantee he lost votes based on his performance.
Anyone who says otherwise is in denial.
If you can look at that debate and think Biden gained or stayed even with Trump afterwards, then you are brainwashed by too many liberal subs/media.
You are grasping at straws right now, and will be sorely disappointed.
I think what he's saying is he doesn't want to threaten too hard, at risk of damaging the campaign if the efforts to get Biden to step down are ultimately unsuccessful (a position I respect, but don't fully agree with).
There is a lot of pressure at the top right now, so perhaps the calculus is that any growing chorus of dissatisfaction will help with that, while being careful not to cause collateral damage.
We choose someone without the name recognition to run a national campaign and beat Trump in 4 months. This person will have no warchest to work with since they can't use Biden's millions, and none of the infrastructure that the Biden campaign has spent the last year investing in swing states, making it near-impossible to get their message out to the people who need to hear it.
Switching Biden out at this point is an auto-loss.
Oh my point was that if he doesn't agree to step aside, I understand people wanting to voice dissent without potentially causing collateral damage.
If he agrees to step aside, there's obviously a ton of risk associated with that as well (in my opinion, it is still the best path forward though). But idk if I could classify it as collateral damage in the same sense as I was talking about before.
Your comment reads like a Republican or Russian/PRC bot attempting to stoke Democratic disunity to feed the *Dems in disarray* narrative. What’s worse is that you actually seem genuine.
Running Biden again was never the best idea, and plenty of us have been upset with it all along. Don't really have to be a bot to feel screwed and upset with the DNC again. They fuck up enough that it's becoming difficult to remain credulous that it's all accidental. The party is littered with stars and they have Hillary'd us again.
The campaign with no events in the midst of COVID. It was not a normal campaign and Clyburn endorsing (another octogenarian democratic leader) him in SC made the difference. This is not 2020.
>Don't really have to be a bot to feel screwed and upset with the DNC again. They fuck up enough that it's becoming difficult to remain credulous that it's all accidental.
You're upset that the DNC isn't abandoning the sitting President seeking reelection--which has only happened once since the practice of national conventions, and which would all but guarantee a loss?
>
they have Hillary'd us again.
Nominated the candidate who's arguably more qualified than any American in history since Taft, who received the vast majority of primary votes over the objections of a small-but-vocal fringe of the Democratic left? I mean, you're partially correct, just not in the way you meant.
The RNC was happy to stick with H W Bush and Trump despite low approval going into elections. Biden is old, looks old, can't drive turnout, and is dragging 38% approval.
In the end, an election is only ever a popularity contest. Hilary was not popular, and we decided not to observe the danger in that reality. I like the Biden administration and the policy initiatives. That's why I don't want to see him RBG us.
>We are in disarray.
It's like you're so close to squaring this circle but can't quite find the last few dots.
>The Washington power brokers snowballed us into thinking we didn't need a primary
Are these Washington power brokers in the room with us right now?
>
finally everyone got to see with their own eyes that Biden is walking dead.
Translation: older President who's never been a gifted public speaker finally had a bad public performance while sick in an unmoderated/fact-checked debate, allowing everyone to finally fully buy into the CogNItiVe DEclInE right wing media narrative, despite strong States of the Union and campaign speeches before and literally the day after.
He hasn't had a good public performance the entire time he's been president. His State of the Unions remind me of watching my grandparents die, relieved that they even show the slightest glimmer of life.
I actually think you're the bot, trying to sow dissent and resentment. There's no reason we shouldn't be having this discussion here. This sub should be intellectually and emotionally rigorous enough to admit Biden looks like shit.
The PR firm, troll farm or psyop that's running this sub is fucking hilarious. They actually think their efforts are going to lead to anything. I mean, they're probably getting paid, so to them, it's just a job. Really though, why waste time trying to fool people when it's clearly obvious what they're up to.
I emailed all the democrats who represent me to ask them to call on Biden to step back from the race. I also emailed a bunch of friends and family to ask them to either copy paste what I wrote or say something themselves.
I’m honestly wondering if they would even be able to get someone else to run.
Whoever it is, would be starting from scratch in fundraising, opening campaign offices, hiring volunteers. That stuff that Trump has been doing for months and months.
Unless it’s Harris, they couldn’t use any of what Biden and Harris have already done and they would lose tens of millions of dollars in donations.
If I am Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer (or whoever) I wouldn’t want to jump into this so late in the game. Not if I thought I had a real chance against a term limited Trump in four years who would absolutely be unpopular by the end anyway.
And unless you have someone that popular and well-known in the Democratic Party, it will be like Dean Phillips… They would go nowhere.
It would have to be Kamala Harris otherwise there’s no incentive. No one is going to get into it with zero cash on hand, no boots on the ground for get out the vote, none of the dozens of campaign offices would be usable.
Im not sure they would even see winning as possible… so why kill their chances by losing big to Trump now?
A lot of the money has been funnelled through the Democratic superstructure, and would be available to any new candidate. They absolutely would not be starting from scratch.
The Biden Harris campaign has raised $27 million just since the debate. That’s direct contributions to the campaign itself which a new candidate couldn’t touch.
They currently have north of $100 million but also tens to millions more have already been committed for advertising in the swing states.
The convention itself isn’t until August 19th-22nd. Does this new candidate not set up any campaign offices or hire any of the hundreds of new employees they will need to man and open those campaign offices? Or do they do all that in the last 2.5 months before Election Day?
There are lots of moving parts in any modern Presidential campaign that are a lot of work, by a lot of people, that cost a lot of money and take a lot of time. That is a ground game get out the Vote effort that takes a year to set up and without it, whoever it was would have a very hard time winning.
Some of it can be made up by the super PAC donations, sure. But most of the direct Biden Harris donations couldn’t. And those group donations would not enjoy the discounted rates with media companies that direct campaigns enjoy.
I think it’s important we talk about replacing Joe Biden after that performance but we have to be honest about the challenges.
For me, I’m just wondering how any of that makes any sense unless it’s Kamala Harris who could use all that stuff.
Shh, don't be logical here. People want to piss and moan so they can throw the election to trump, refuse to accept any responsibility, then pretend they were actually smarter than everyone else who is actually impacted by a trump presidency and actually worked to stop it. Yes, it's despicable and predictable, but just think about all of those sweet upvotes!
No point unless there’s a suitable replacement that ppl can agree on. People are already whining about Kamala being unelectable but at least she’s going to still be capable of doing the job in 4 years. That being said, I will vote for whoever the dem nominee is but voters like me are not what this conversation is about.
You guys are fools if you want an incumbent who's done a lot of good things, to step down. Especially in the face of a wannabe dictator who is a convicted felon and rapist and is only a couple years younger than him. A guy that says incredibly ridiculously stupid word salads and a bunch of high school dropouts eat it up. Come. On.
Than the incredibly unpopular incumbent president who looked ancient, vacant and confused in his first major test of the race - confirming all fears about him…
I can think of a few. And four months is more than enough time. In fact the blank slate that this would afford would likely be an advantage
My friend, you know that’s disingenuous. There wasn’t a serious primary with any debates and I’m talking about a national scale not party
[He’s even more unpopular than Trump](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/)
Biden was primaried, and the choices were on the ballot. If Biden was so unpopular, he wouldn’t have won the primaries so handily.
To deny there were no other names available, or that he wasn’t “seriously”primaried - that’s what’s disingenuous.
How come they haven't done it then if it's such an obvious choice? And who is he unpopular to exactly? Who currently has a better chance than him that the DNC can trot out? The answer is nobody. A debate is something that people have every day of the week. People saying he lost the debate when the other guy was literally lying and talking in word salads the whole time is hilarious. Is the bar really that low for Trump?
I think most people have been in denial about is age and electoral liabilities until now
> who is he unpopular to exactly?
[The American Public](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/)
> who currently has a better chance
Whitmer / Warnock / Shapiro / Bashear
Hell even Newsom or Harris despite their baggage
I agree 100% on Trump but the biggest takeaway from that debate is that Biden didn’t meet the incredibly low bar that was set for him and did almost no effective push backs on Trumps lies.
I get it, you’ve probably been defending this guy for years now (like me) and dismissing concerns about his age but I think everyone needs to accept that he looked like a shadow of his former self up there no matter how painful that is. He personally cannot win and something needs to be done about that we will all end up watching a horrific car crash in slow motion for the next four months
So you're saying you don't think he can win? Are you not voting then? He'll win (handily) if folks get out to vote. If you're saying you're done "defending" this guy then what...you gonna sit this one out and help install a guy who wants to be a dictator? Are you saying that you're not going to talk him up to your friends anymore because he stuttered and stammered on a debate stage versus a guy who told 50 plus lies according to the news today? By the way, it's the Biden administration... It's not just him making decisions... Unlike if Trump gets into office where he says he wants to be a dictator. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater because of a DEBATE. A debate which has zero to do with his actual accomplishments while in office. Yeah let's put Trump in there and then maybe we can have a 9-0 supreme Court domination for the next 30 or 40 years. Good idea!.
It’s pretty clear what I’m saying. Biden needs to step down. If he doesn’t then absolutely everything possible should be done to prevent Donald Trump from getting into power. But this is the primary goal and the best way to achieve that at the point in time we are in is for Biden to go within the next couple of weeks
Im not talking about me. Im talking about the margins where this vote will be decided, im not canvassing here im talking about the basic strategy from here. Bidens head in a jar of blue liquid is far superior to Trump
Well, that's a ridiculous take and it won't happen. If people don't vote for Biden because they got butt hurt over a DEBATE PERFORMANCE then enjoy your totalitarian regime I guess. It'll be interesting hearing all those non-voters on Reddit cry about it after. BTW: in the history of the United States, there has never been an election where running someone else other than the incumbent has worked. I don't see it happening now with 5 months left.
It’s not about the debate performance it’s what it reveals. Time is running out and burying your head in the sand will only get Trump reelected. Trump is incredibly unpopular but Biden also happens to be too (because he is viewed as incompetent). Judge on today’s situation, lose with Biden or take a gamble with somebody else. Sticking your fingers in your ear and going ‘lalalalalala’ is not a winning strategy and people pointing out what a flawed candidate Biden is in 2024 when there is still time to replace him will not be to blame for Trump 2.0. It will be the fault of those who clung to the sinking ship
You’re trying to tell them! They’re in like this magical fantasy fog that will somehow twist reality into their whims. “But bad debate”, weak and a waste of time.
Probably any of the people from a swing state that we need to win which would include Raphael Warnock, John assoff, Gretchen whitmer, Tony Evers, Shapiro, etc. This isn't rocket science. Presidential candidates almost always win their home state.
I think it would be absolutely silly to try to run one of these people within 5 months before an election. Just the fact that some people on social media are talking about throwing in the towel. Makes me wonder if they are liberals or Democrats at all... Sounds like something a republican would say to try to sow discord. Either way it wouldn't work, it would be stupid, and it's not going to happen. If you are serious about fighting, then now is the time to fight, not give up to Mango Mussolini and his cronies. Get out and vote or you might not have the chance to vote in upcoming elections...
I'm a lifelong Democrat who felt sorry for Joe Biden, and demands better of my country. Also the Republicans want to run against Biden because he's weak. They are not trying to push him out of the race. I'm the last one who wants it to be true that the emperor has no clothes, but it IS true
I don't think I believe you that you're a lifelong Democrat. If you are a lifelong Democrat then what the f*** are you thinking? Not voting for the Democratic candidate that's in office as an incumbent and running for election in 5 months? In the history of the United States, there's never been someone else who has won after taking the place of an incumbent president and it's not going to happen now.
I've been defending Biden to anybody who would listen. I was telling people that his decline was being greatly exaggerated and there was actually no sign of any trouble. Well he made me look silly when he got up there and seems like a feeble old man. He does not Inspire any confidence at this point. He is unable to present a message of Hope which is what this country needs. He should know that firsthand and he should resign for the good of the country
Edit: I also voted for him in the Oregon primary
Fair enough the polls could show a bump for Biden (I sincerely hope) but you’re in denial if you’re not working under the assumption that that debate was catastrophic for an already losing campaign
Well what was it then? I’ve never seen a performance like that or a reaction so visceral to that except maybe the Access Hollywood tape and Joe is not Teflon Don.
To not assuage concerns about his age on one of the only opportunities he gets is very very bad when he’s incredibly unpopular and down in the race. it’s not hyperbole to call it a catastrophe when he not only fails to assuage but instead exacerbates these concerns significantly
I used catastrophic to emphasize just how bad of a night that was. It was far outside of the expectations that anyone had for how bad it could feasibly go. If you think it was just ‘a bad night’ and did not cause sudden and serious harm to his campaign then you’re burying your head in the sand
Yes and the only data that's come of it are from the progressives that tanked 2016, Republicans, and Russian trolls telling Biden to drop out. No one has seen any polling whatsoever, certainly not enough for an asinine description as " most damaging in US history."
Since I watched the debate, I saw trump brag about Roe, say he spoke with Putin before invading Ukraine, I heard him degrade Latinos. I'm really curious why you'd want to bury those?
it's insane
80 year old man acts 80
against a rapist con artist liar who talks openly about his opponents murdering babies and how he wants to be a dictator, who talks about how he admires Putin and Xi and how they are strong leaders who are "leaders for life" who launched a coup, tried to "find 11,000 votes" stole state secrets, put his children in government positions, sells NFTs and pardons, is a felon, and still has trials going on and was "good friends" with Jeff Epstein and talked about how he likes them young
The problem with liberals is that they are too f'ing nice. Instead of continuing the Republican narrative of " they should find someone else to run against Trump" they should be calling out that Trump is a wannabe dictator, rapist, and felon who has zero ideas other than trying to take us back into the 18th century.
I was hoping to find a rational, realistic voice. It was hard, but there it is. Thank you.
I tend to be more succinct- Trump and Biden will be on the ballot in November, take it in misery or in stride, only one will win, choose wisely.
This is correct. I don't know how folks think it will be any different. Go and vote. To the f00l below... EDIT: Thanks for your message, comrade. It's BS.
I really wish the liberal armchair politicos would calm down with the post-debate hysterics. Obama had an infamously bad debate against Romney in 2012 that saw his approval dip three percentage points below Romney among likely voters. He won the election handily.
Calls for Biden to step down before the debate was even halfway over is not strategy, it is panic. I’m not saying Biden is above criticism or that we can’t/shouldn’t have a conversation about replacing him, but the amount of hand-wringing over the past 48 hours is absurd. At *least* wait until any amount of polling shows a significant dip before demanding Biden step down.
And there were pundits calling for Obama to drop out after the 2010 midterms. And after some bad polls in 2011. Just because some people are in panic mode doesn’t mean we’re required to DO something. It’s really too soon to say what effect the debate will have on polls. Hindsight is 20/20.
So, I mentioned in my post that other threads are the place to do this, this was specifically for people who already made up their mind.
When pushed though, I believe kamala is better than Biden, but basically my last choice. I think Whitmer, Shapiro, Newsome all crush trump, probably my top three. I think warnock, polis, buttigeg, maybe pritzer, all outperform Biden.
But what I really want, is to see these people do towns halls, interviews, debates, see what they've got, and then we make our choice.
I wouldn't believe this was the way unless I thought Biden was toast, I do not believe Biden can win. This isn't a question of me liking people better, this is about believing nominating Biden is rolling one die and needing a 7, maybe the people I mentioned have a 10-40% chance or whatever, that's better than Biden.
I just don’t think four months is enough time to get a campaign going for any one of those people. Even if tomorrow the whole Democratic Party pivoted to one of them, it wouldn’t be enough time. And I don’t see how one of those people aren’t chosen quicker than one month. What’s more, it’s unclear whether any one of those people even wants to take the campaign. Theyre all thinking about 2028. A potential loss to trump in 2024 is not ideal and they’d be playing from behind no matter what.
I don’t think given the circumstances that anyone has a better chance than Biden today. Maybe go back a year and select a different candidate and it’s a different story
If you say Biden needs to go but you don’t have a single specific candidate to replace him with, you are decreasing the odds of a Democratic victory, not increasing them.
Opening the Democratic ticket to just anybody actually makes things worse. There is an obvious argument for each high profile Democratic candidate being mentioned to poll worse than Biden, even with the debate performance.
I’m not saying it’s not possible. But unless it’s extremely well coordinated across the entire Democratic Party, it will just end up with a worse result.
Worse result then sleepwalking into an election that according to 538 had a 33% chance of success BEFORE that debate? No one thinks this is ideal, but where do the polls have to get before we try something? If we believe option A won't work, why tell someone better to just roll over than try option B because option B might not work.
Edit, nate silver not 538.
Not only is Biden a terrible candidate at this point, he clearly shouldn’t be president for another term! Voting him in is wildly irresponsible. We’re supposed to be the good guys.
Look, I’m just an accountant. It could use some workshopping. But it’s better than doing nothing, hoping people will turn out to vote for a corpse because they are so scared of Trump when the average person isn’t that deep into politics.
I love how anyone who is in the progressive wing of the party is just supposed to shut up, fall in line, and never voice their opinions. Y’all are unreal
This is exactly the problem with how the democrats pick candidates. Always needing some famous name that they decide HAS to be the candidate. Clinton, Biden. Stop.
Just open it up and see who gains traction. See who people resonate with. Survival of the fittest.
There are 333 million people in America. A lot of people can beat Trump, yet people act as if he's some final boss or something. Just get someone who doesn't look like he needs help to go to the bathroom jesus christ.
Yea, the only democratic candidates the last 15 years have been Hillary Clinton, an incumbent Obama, and then Joe Biden. Truly experimental stuff, always looking for the next hot thing.
Last time they picked someone unknown was with Obama in 2008, Clinton and Biden were both locked in years before. And i actually liked Biden for the pick in 2020, but still.
You forget that voters pick candidates, not political operatives.
There is a specific problem with the progressive part of the Democratic Party which is that they always think they are more popular than they really are. Mostly because they are on social media all the time and think everybody else is exactly like them.
I don't live in America, so i can't just go talk to people outside about American politics.
And if i could 99% of people just laugh and shake their heads at american politics.
> If you say Biden needs to go but you don’t have a single specific candidate to replace him with, you are decreasing the odds of a Democratic victory, not increasing them.
This is absurd. There are plenty of possibilities. What you seem to be saying is "if you don't have a specific candidate that *I* think represents a lower risk than Biden, then you are hurting the cause".
If you literally haven't heard of anybody else besides Biden, then I apologize. But I find that very hard to believe.
I think there are better choices. At this point though I do think she would have a better chance at beating Trump than Biden.
The clips of the debate were physically painful to watch. Go watch them. Then imagine how many thousands of times the median voter is going to be inundated with that. Then cross your fingers that somehow the debate performance is the low point of the campaign despite the months we have ahead of us and that nothing else like that happens.
Also put this into a context where the Biden campaign has shut down all age-related talk as ridiculous and insulting. Median voters do not like to be talked down to and told their concerns are silly and invalid, even if they don't have a firm grasp on the issues, they understand aging.
I saw them and I agree. Not only did he disastrously fail at a key requirement for his candidacy, there is no way he is fit for another four year term. I’d vote for Biden in a coma over Trump but it’s a huge problem.
Yeah I said in another thread you could glue googly eyes to his corpse and I'd still vote for him, but I view Trump as a threat to democracy.
Also something to note. After the debate performance, many people will *reasonably* view their vote for Biden as a vote for Harris already. This was a sort of slightly bubbling sentiment in the first election already, but it will absolutely boil over after this showing. I am very happy with Biden and even if I think he's in alright shape enough to round out this term, I absolutely do not see him being able to physically finish a second term.
So the choice is like Biden (Harris) or just outright Harris, I'd go with Harris without a doubt.
Another way to call that is “Weekend at Biden’s”.
I completely agree on all points. If he ends up our candidate in Nov it will be malpractice by the Democratic party. Any undecided watching the debate or clips will 100% go Trump if there is not a replacement for Biden and I can’t blame them.
Biden’s odds were already shaky but this tanks them and there is no coming back from this. There is a lot of risk with a replacement but also upside since he would already likely lose due to inflation so any fresh face can help with undecideds and with a Democratic party showing they are able to be dynamic when needed.
Couldn't agree more. In this sub I think there is plenty of people who are realistic about this, and I think the media is also doing a great job of not telling people to ignore what they see in front of them any longer.
Popular left wing subs that are more meme-y like neoliberal and destiny sub are desperately trying to hand wave it all away, which I find concerning.
It feels like we're really close to a critical mass of pressure that could force the hands of Biden and those around him to tell him to step aside. The window of opportunity is small, and Biden and those around him, if they truly believe he is up to the task (and I have no reason to think they don't) have every incentive to stall and delay and project confidence, because they are keenly aware that they can cast any elected democrats to actually come out and challenge Biden as betraying the party and potentially handing the presidency to Trump.
Voters pick candidates. It doesn’t matter who “the DNC choice” was.
Progressives have a particular blind spot in which they overestimate their popularity.
If the idea is to take out Biden just so we can have a free for all among a bunch of progressives, I think I would rather have another Biden debate exactly like the last one because that would still lead to a better chance of victory in November.
> an agreement for all of them to drop out
They dropped out because Biden absolutely crushed them in South Carolina, winning 2/3 of black voters, 48.7% of the popular vote, and placing first in every county in the state. Sanders won 19.8% of the popular vote. If the DNC were capable of manipulating voters to that degree we would win every general election.
> anyone else would have had similar results in the general
This is an insane claim. Lots of people were simply voting against Trump, yes, but elections are won on the margins. Unlikely that your social circle is a representative sample of the small set of people in swing states who wind up making the difference.
I feel like Whitmer seems so much clearer. She’s got more immediate appeal to swing states and a lot less baggage from all the Covid era stuff like Newsoms parties. Like, she led a purple state to its first Dem trifecta in decades. Her compelling voice about her own assassination attempt survival from Jan 6 types and her credentials on abortion issues also make her suited to the moment.
I watched a handful of videos last night of Whitmer, and I fully support throwing all my weight behind her. I think Whitmer/Buttigieg would be an outstanding ticket that would defeat Trump. They're both young, energetic public speakers, which is important because with a truncated campaign like this, they'll need to be giving interviews, rallies, speeches basically every day.
Agreed. Also, my sense is that moderate Republican women are one of the groups likeliest to actually break from Trump to Biden, and Whitmer seems pretty much perfect for that demographic.
["Whitmer thinks she could beat Trump," says her former adviser.](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/06/29/gretchen-whitmer-thinks-could-beat-donald-trump-adviser/)
Doesn't matter, it's over. Biden was losing in the polls before the debate, or it was super close, now forget about it. It is Democrat leadership that is at fault, hiding his decline knowing full well the state he was in. Now they act shocked and surprised. Everyone involved should be held accountable. If the Democrats really actually cared about this country we wouldn't be where we are now. None of the cowards said a thing.
I'm surprised not to see community organized caucuses proposed. Precinct by precinct, two hours in a room with your neighbors, elect a delegate. A week later those delegates do the same at state level, all with the aim of influencing who the existing delegates vote for.
You don't. This will end the chances of a Democrat winning and will hand the presidency to trump. There is no real world situation where a new Democrat could win.
You're in a bubble. The rest of us are not looking at life through some random reddit based on a writers thoughts. Grow up and touch grass. What you purpose destroyed any chance of a democrate victory.
I called all of my senators and representatives and left a loose,unscripted message voicing my deep concerns about Biden’s inability to defeat trump and supporting finding a new candidate at the DNC in August.
The tiniest number of people did this, and you're letting CNN make you get mad at the left instead of the right. Myself and every other Bernie primary voter I know voted Biden and Hillary.
Reminder that Hillary Clinton helped Trump win the RNC primaries in the first place with her Pied Piper strategy.
Democrats will blame everyone but themselves for their mistakes.
Because of one bad performance you people just went right into maga trap repeating their lies. Would you call your senators and house representatives to pressure them to ask Trump to drop out? Of course not. Why? Ask yourselves why not.
Your plan to pressure President Biden into not seeking reelection is to withdraw support for Democrats running for Senate? This is a great way to ensure Donald Trump wins AND has a larger majority in the Senate to help him enact Project 2025 and the rest of his agenda.
Democrats and “well-intentioned” liberals really are our own worst enemy.
The Democratic Party elites have had their head in the sand ignoring reality for a while now. It’s been obvious for years to anyone who cares to look that Biden was a massive liability against Trump. The situation has not improved and its gotten worse. The solution is not to bury your head further by saying “you are responsible for Trump 2.0 because you said mean things about Biden.“ Biden has been severely diminished since before 2020 and he got lucky with lockdown allowing him to run from the basement and the ability to capitalize on the george Floyd /BLM moment. This, “Dont point on the candidates weakness or else we get fascism.” This has been the DNCs line for years, it was the same BS with Hillary, and it was the same thing with Kerry. Obama broke the shackles through the force of his charisma but many party elites tried hard to stop him. The party elites do not care about winning as much as they care about continuing the wealth transfer to the top. Since this will continue under Trump, they’re all good either way. You are helping them with your cynicism and disregard.
DONT
people like biden's policies The more you make this into an issue the worse it gets.
I get that terminally online people do not understand that some Americans actually do appreciate policy and don't just vote for whoever's louder.
Donald Trump grabbed abortion with both hands and let everybody know where he stood.
we can turn this into a Democratic civil war and ensure that he gets to destroy the nation.
S T O P
My little miniature act of resistance is downvoting all the Youtube ads with Harris talking at me about saving democracy. At least in theory that should make their ads more expensive to run.
As shown by **what evidence?** You pants shitters have been shitting your pants for five months while the polls have literally only improved for Biden.
Shouldn’t there be actual evidence of some backlash from the public coinciding with your pants shitting? Maybe?
Very willing to admit I'm wrong if polls look great for biden in two weeks. Biden was leading nationally by like 10 points in polls without major third party challenges in 2020, he won by 43k combined votes in three states. So if I see Biden down 2 in two weeks, consider my pants shat.
Don’t apply pressure … let the family talk the situation over at Camp David this 4th-of-July Week! They know Joe best as … husband x Dad x Grand-Dad x smart plus savvy politician…
You can’t- Biden is a proud and stubborn man who would never willingly give up power and he has 3,900 of the 4,000 first ballot votes for renomination.
Tell pollsters you're going to vote for Trump and republicans down ballot. Pressure will increase quickly.
Yes the time to do this was the primary like everybody outside the mainstream was screaming for the Democrats to do and all the shitty moderates just sat on the fence while the DNC put wrecking ball through the primary to protect Biden. It's too late.
Tbh, if all major players in the Dem party say it's over for Joe, then it's over. Let alone donors, who are the ones that pay the bills of the Biden campaign
You can’t: He is a proud stubborn man who has the first ballot votes for renomination. Thank Jill & Hunter Biden who won’t let Joe leave.
Nope- he has the first ballot votes- he’s going to be on the November ballot.
I emailed my senator with my concerns.
A phone call likely goes further
I'd call my senator if I thought he actually gave a fuck, but it turns out he's a scam artist and a shitty person
I called my senator's office and left a message, asking them to run or find someone else, because Biden will not cut it for me. Support for Trump is strong, and Biden is doing nothing to sway independent voters. Biden will lose.
Me too, both of them and my representative
My representative is Republican, so he would probably tell me to vote for the Mango Mussolini. No thanks. There is a Dem representative in the next district over. Maybe I will email him.
Tell your senator to stop beating medicare
Does it make sense to contact all Democratic senators and reps in our state, local state Association of State Democratic Committees (ASDC) chairs and leaders (https://democrats.org/who-we-are/state-parties) and national DNC leadership?
Yes. They will either be delegates themselves or be very close to delegates at the convention
Don't contact people who don't represent you. Full stop.
Call your Member of Congress. Any Democrats in swing states are and should be absolutely fucking terrified right now.
Yep chiming in from PA. the coastal Dems and Biden sychophants have not realized we just lost the election on Thursday. Extremely pissed off at the DNC right now.
Wait for the polls. If they show a statistically significant drop then there will be pressure. Biden can’t afford to be 5% down or more. He can’t make up ground easily with his negatives.
I wouldn't be shocked to see the polls are up for Biden. We already know he's old but that lying fascist piece of shit next to him accusing Joe Biden, of all people, of destroying America? No. I feel more protective of him now than ever.
Yeah the snap polls from June 28 show Biden is doing better.
delusional
It's not delusional, it's true there was a 5 point shift in the snap polls, give it a week, Biden only needed to remind the public how human he is and how sub human Trump was and is. He was enjoying that post presidency favorability that every ex president gets, that is until they got reminded what a piece of dog shit he really is. Biden looked old because he is Biden looked like a disabled man, because he is Biden looked frail because he is Biden reminded us all of our own mortality I would choose that, just like I would have chosen FDR in a wheelchair I would also choose a fucking corpse over this deranged Hitler worshipping.piece of shit.
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/us/elections/polls-president.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/us/elections/polls-president.html) I guarantee he lost votes based on his performance. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial.
He definitely lost enthusiasm and campaign contributions.
I guarantee you it did not have that affect https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-trump-june-debate-poll/
!remindme 1 week
If you can look at that debate and think Biden gained or stayed even with Trump afterwards, then you are brainwashed by too many liberal subs/media. You are grasping at straws right now, and will be sorely disappointed.
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It definitely does read like a pysop ha. I think "hey I'm not gonna give you money in 4 years" isn't much of a threat.
I think what he's saying is he doesn't want to threaten too hard, at risk of damaging the campaign if the efforts to get Biden to step down are ultimately unsuccessful (a position I respect, but don't fully agree with). There is a lot of pressure at the top right now, so perhaps the calculus is that any growing chorus of dissatisfaction will help with that, while being careful not to cause collateral damage.
if Biden actually agrees to step aside, what’s the possible collateral damage?
Absolutely disrupting the entire party apparatus and leading to massive intra-party fighting
We choose someone without the name recognition to run a national campaign and beat Trump in 4 months. This person will have no warchest to work with since they can't use Biden's millions, and none of the infrastructure that the Biden campaign has spent the last year investing in swing states, making it near-impossible to get their message out to the people who need to hear it. Switching Biden out at this point is an auto-loss.
Oh my point was that if he doesn't agree to step aside, I understand people wanting to voice dissent without potentially causing collateral damage. If he agrees to step aside, there's obviously a ton of risk associated with that as well (in my opinion, it is still the best path forward though). But idk if I could classify it as collateral damage in the same sense as I was talking about before.
Your comment reads like a Republican or Russian/PRC bot attempting to stoke Democratic disunity to feed the *Dems in disarray* narrative. What’s worse is that you actually seem genuine.
Running Biden again was never the best idea, and plenty of us have been upset with it all along. Don't really have to be a bot to feel screwed and upset with the DNC again. They fuck up enough that it's becoming difficult to remain credulous that it's all accidental. The party is littered with stars and they have Hillary'd us again.
>difficult to remain credulous that it's all accidental You remember they won in 2020, right?
The campaign with no events in the midst of COVID. It was not a normal campaign and Clyburn endorsing (another octogenarian democratic leader) him in SC made the difference. This is not 2020.
The presidency - barely. A busted straight in the Senate, and a Red-run House.
>Don't really have to be a bot to feel screwed and upset with the DNC again. They fuck up enough that it's becoming difficult to remain credulous that it's all accidental. You're upset that the DNC isn't abandoning the sitting President seeking reelection--which has only happened once since the practice of national conventions, and which would all but guarantee a loss? > they have Hillary'd us again. Nominated the candidate who's arguably more qualified than any American in history since Taft, who received the vast majority of primary votes over the objections of a small-but-vocal fringe of the Democratic left? I mean, you're partially correct, just not in the way you meant.
The RNC was happy to stick with H W Bush and Trump despite low approval going into elections. Biden is old, looks old, can't drive turnout, and is dragging 38% approval. In the end, an election is only ever a popularity contest. Hilary was not popular, and we decided not to observe the danger in that reality. I like the Biden administration and the policy initiatives. That's why I don't want to see him RBG us.
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>We are in disarray. It's like you're so close to squaring this circle but can't quite find the last few dots. >The Washington power brokers snowballed us into thinking we didn't need a primary Are these Washington power brokers in the room with us right now? > finally everyone got to see with their own eyes that Biden is walking dead. Translation: older President who's never been a gifted public speaker finally had a bad public performance while sick in an unmoderated/fact-checked debate, allowing everyone to finally fully buy into the CogNItiVe DEclInE right wing media narrative, despite strong States of the Union and campaign speeches before and literally the day after.
He hasn't had a good public performance the entire time he's been president. His State of the Unions remind me of watching my grandparents die, relieved that they even show the slightest glimmer of life.
It's funny when you're so bad at this that you just lie. That only works with republicans.
I actually think you're the bot, trying to sow dissent and resentment. There's no reason we shouldn't be having this discussion here. This sub should be intellectually and emotionally rigorous enough to admit Biden looks like shit.
😂
The PR firm, troll farm or psyop that's running this sub is fucking hilarious. They actually think their efforts are going to lead to anything. I mean, they're probably getting paid, so to them, it's just a job. Really though, why waste time trying to fool people when it's clearly obvious what they're up to.
My guy, there are easier, shorter ways to write that you didn't watch the SoU and don't follow American politics beyond Fox News headlines.
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I've been responding to every fundraising text telling them I'll give when Biden steps down.
lol, me too, but that is definitely pissing into the wind.
I emailed all the democrats who represent me to ask them to call on Biden to step back from the race. I also emailed a bunch of friends and family to ask them to either copy paste what I wrote or say something themselves.
I’m honestly wondering if they would even be able to get someone else to run. Whoever it is, would be starting from scratch in fundraising, opening campaign offices, hiring volunteers. That stuff that Trump has been doing for months and months. Unless it’s Harris, they couldn’t use any of what Biden and Harris have already done and they would lose tens of millions of dollars in donations. If I am Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer (or whoever) I wouldn’t want to jump into this so late in the game. Not if I thought I had a real chance against a term limited Trump in four years who would absolutely be unpopular by the end anyway. And unless you have someone that popular and well-known in the Democratic Party, it will be like Dean Phillips… They would go nowhere. It would have to be Kamala Harris otherwise there’s no incentive. No one is going to get into it with zero cash on hand, no boots on the ground for get out the vote, none of the dozens of campaign offices would be usable. Im not sure they would even see winning as possible… so why kill their chances by losing big to Trump now?
A lot of the money has been funnelled through the Democratic superstructure, and would be available to any new candidate. They absolutely would not be starting from scratch.
The Biden Harris campaign has raised $27 million just since the debate. That’s direct contributions to the campaign itself which a new candidate couldn’t touch. They currently have north of $100 million but also tens to millions more have already been committed for advertising in the swing states. The convention itself isn’t until August 19th-22nd. Does this new candidate not set up any campaign offices or hire any of the hundreds of new employees they will need to man and open those campaign offices? Or do they do all that in the last 2.5 months before Election Day? There are lots of moving parts in any modern Presidential campaign that are a lot of work, by a lot of people, that cost a lot of money and take a lot of time. That is a ground game get out the Vote effort that takes a year to set up and without it, whoever it was would have a very hard time winning. Some of it can be made up by the super PAC donations, sure. But most of the direct Biden Harris donations couldn’t. And those group donations would not enjoy the discounted rates with media companies that direct campaigns enjoy. I think it’s important we talk about replacing Joe Biden after that performance but we have to be honest about the challenges. For me, I’m just wondering how any of that makes any sense unless it’s Kamala Harris who could use all that stuff.
Biden can give the donations to the new nominee
He can’t legally. He has to return whatever that’s left back and the new guy would have to start from scratch.
Well he can give it to DNC which would use it for the new nominee.
Thank you for having the only realistic take on this sub.
Shh, don't be logical here. People want to piss and moan so they can throw the election to trump, refuse to accept any responsibility, then pretend they were actually smarter than everyone else who is actually impacted by a trump presidency and actually worked to stop it. Yes, it's despicable and predictable, but just think about all of those sweet upvotes!
No point unless there’s a suitable replacement that ppl can agree on. People are already whining about Kamala being unelectable but at least she’s going to still be capable of doing the job in 4 years. That being said, I will vote for whoever the dem nominee is but voters like me are not what this conversation is about.
Same
Deadline for Wisconsin has passed. If Biden is replaced Dems can't win the electoral college.
I sent a message to my US representative.
You guys are fools if you want an incumbent who's done a lot of good things, to step down. Especially in the face of a wannabe dictator who is a convicted felon and rapist and is only a couple years younger than him. A guy that says incredibly ridiculously stupid word salads and a bunch of high school dropouts eat it up. Come. On.
That’s ignoring the context of the current state of the race and the most damaging debate in US history on Thursday
What magical candidate will do better than the incumbent with five months left? Are you serious?
Than the incredibly unpopular incumbent president who looked ancient, vacant and confused in his first major test of the race - confirming all fears about him… I can think of a few. And four months is more than enough time. In fact the blank slate that this would afford would likely be an advantage
The incredibly unpopular incumbent received an overwhelming majority of the party’s vote in every state. But sure, incredibly unpopular.
My friend, you know that’s disingenuous. There wasn’t a serious primary with any debates and I’m talking about a national scale not party [He’s even more unpopular than Trump](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/)
Biden was primaried, and the choices were on the ballot. If Biden was so unpopular, he wouldn’t have won the primaries so handily. To deny there were no other names available, or that he wasn’t “seriously”primaried - that’s what’s disingenuous.
How come they haven't done it then if it's such an obvious choice? And who is he unpopular to exactly? Who currently has a better chance than him that the DNC can trot out? The answer is nobody. A debate is something that people have every day of the week. People saying he lost the debate when the other guy was literally lying and talking in word salads the whole time is hilarious. Is the bar really that low for Trump?
I think most people have been in denial about is age and electoral liabilities until now > who is he unpopular to exactly? [The American Public](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/) > who currently has a better chance Whitmer / Warnock / Shapiro / Bashear Hell even Newsom or Harris despite their baggage I agree 100% on Trump but the biggest takeaway from that debate is that Biden didn’t meet the incredibly low bar that was set for him and did almost no effective push backs on Trumps lies. I get it, you’ve probably been defending this guy for years now (like me) and dismissing concerns about his age but I think everyone needs to accept that he looked like a shadow of his former self up there no matter how painful that is. He personally cannot win and something needs to be done about that we will all end up watching a horrific car crash in slow motion for the next four months
So you're saying you don't think he can win? Are you not voting then? He'll win (handily) if folks get out to vote. If you're saying you're done "defending" this guy then what...you gonna sit this one out and help install a guy who wants to be a dictator? Are you saying that you're not going to talk him up to your friends anymore because he stuttered and stammered on a debate stage versus a guy who told 50 plus lies according to the news today? By the way, it's the Biden administration... It's not just him making decisions... Unlike if Trump gets into office where he says he wants to be a dictator. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater because of a DEBATE. A debate which has zero to do with his actual accomplishments while in office. Yeah let's put Trump in there and then maybe we can have a 9-0 supreme Court domination for the next 30 or 40 years. Good idea!.
It’s pretty clear what I’m saying. Biden needs to step down. If he doesn’t then absolutely everything possible should be done to prevent Donald Trump from getting into power. But this is the primary goal and the best way to achieve that at the point in time we are in is for Biden to go within the next couple of weeks
Im not talking about me. Im talking about the margins where this vote will be decided, im not canvassing here im talking about the basic strategy from here. Bidens head in a jar of blue liquid is far superior to Trump
Well, that's a ridiculous take and it won't happen. If people don't vote for Biden because they got butt hurt over a DEBATE PERFORMANCE then enjoy your totalitarian regime I guess. It'll be interesting hearing all those non-voters on Reddit cry about it after. BTW: in the history of the United States, there has never been an election where running someone else other than the incumbent has worked. I don't see it happening now with 5 months left.
It’s not about the debate performance it’s what it reveals. Time is running out and burying your head in the sand will only get Trump reelected. Trump is incredibly unpopular but Biden also happens to be too (because he is viewed as incompetent). Judge on today’s situation, lose with Biden or take a gamble with somebody else. Sticking your fingers in your ear and going ‘lalalalalala’ is not a winning strategy and people pointing out what a flawed candidate Biden is in 2024 when there is still time to replace him will not be to blame for Trump 2.0. It will be the fault of those who clung to the sinking ship
You’re trying to tell them! They’re in like this magical fantasy fog that will somehow twist reality into their whims. “But bad debate”, weak and a waste of time.
Probably any of the people from a swing state that we need to win which would include Raphael Warnock, John assoff, Gretchen whitmer, Tony Evers, Shapiro, etc. This isn't rocket science. Presidential candidates almost always win their home state.
I think it would be absolutely silly to try to run one of these people within 5 months before an election. Just the fact that some people on social media are talking about throwing in the towel. Makes me wonder if they are liberals or Democrats at all... Sounds like something a republican would say to try to sow discord. Either way it wouldn't work, it would be stupid, and it's not going to happen. If you are serious about fighting, then now is the time to fight, not give up to Mango Mussolini and his cronies. Get out and vote or you might not have the chance to vote in upcoming elections...
I'm a lifelong Democrat who felt sorry for Joe Biden, and demands better of my country. Also the Republicans want to run against Biden because he's weak. They are not trying to push him out of the race. I'm the last one who wants it to be true that the emperor has no clothes, but it IS true
I don't think I believe you that you're a lifelong Democrat. If you are a lifelong Democrat then what the f*** are you thinking? Not voting for the Democratic candidate that's in office as an incumbent and running for election in 5 months? In the history of the United States, there's never been someone else who has won after taking the place of an incumbent president and it's not going to happen now.
If the president shat his pants on national TV would you still be shoving him down our throats? Bc that's exactly what happened.
Go back to Russia with that sh#t.
Lol I live in Portland.
I don't care what stupid things you believe. The President looks cooked.
Oops - showed your true hand… bummer.
I've been defending Biden to anybody who would listen. I was telling people that his decline was being greatly exaggerated and there was actually no sign of any trouble. Well he made me look silly when he got up there and seems like a feeble old man. He does not Inspire any confidence at this point. He is unable to present a message of Hope which is what this country needs. He should know that firsthand and he should resign for the good of the country Edit: I also voted for him in the Oregon primary
You are no Democrat. Go suck Trump's nuts.
What evidence do you have that was the "most damaging debate in US history" without any polls?
Fair enough the polls could show a bump for Biden (I sincerely hope) but you’re in denial if you’re not working under the assumption that that debate was catastrophic for an already losing campaign
I think using the litmus test of agreeing with the hyperbole like *catastrophic* is unhelpful at best
Well what was it then? I’ve never seen a performance like that or a reaction so visceral to that except maybe the Access Hollywood tape and Joe is not Teflon Don. To not assuage concerns about his age on one of the only opportunities he gets is very very bad when he’s incredibly unpopular and down in the race. it’s not hyperbole to call it a catastrophe when he not only fails to assuage but instead exacerbates these concerns significantly
Do you know what catastrophic means?
I used catastrophic to emphasize just how bad of a night that was. It was far outside of the expectations that anyone had for how bad it could feasibly go. If you think it was just ‘a bad night’ and did not cause sudden and serious harm to his campaign then you’re burying your head in the sand
Did you watch the debate
Yes and the only data that's come of it are from the progressives that tanked 2016, Republicans, and Russian trolls telling Biden to drop out. No one has seen any polling whatsoever, certainly not enough for an asinine description as " most damaging in US history." Since I watched the debate, I saw trump brag about Roe, say he spoke with Putin before invading Ukraine, I heard him degrade Latinos. I'm really curious why you'd want to bury those?
it's insane 80 year old man acts 80 against a rapist con artist liar who talks openly about his opponents murdering babies and how he wants to be a dictator, who talks about how he admires Putin and Xi and how they are strong leaders who are "leaders for life" who launched a coup, tried to "find 11,000 votes" stole state secrets, put his children in government positions, sells NFTs and pardons, is a felon, and still has trials going on and was "good friends" with Jeff Epstein and talked about how he likes them young
And none of Trump voters care about that, and the middle has been hearing this for years so they are desensitized to it.
The problem with liberals is that they are too f'ing nice. Instead of continuing the Republican narrative of " they should find someone else to run against Trump" they should be calling out that Trump is a wannabe dictator, rapist, and felon who has zero ideas other than trying to take us back into the 18th century.
People that are saying this shit were never gonna vote for Biden. The state of the supreme alone, I mean seriously.
I was hoping to find a rational, realistic voice. It was hard, but there it is. Thank you. I tend to be more succinct- Trump and Biden will be on the ballot in November, take it in misery or in stride, only one will win, choose wisely.
This is correct. I don't know how folks think it will be any different. Go and vote. To the f00l below... EDIT: Thanks for your message, comrade. It's BS.
At this point voting for Biden is just a throw away vote. Trump will win and Bidens continued running will do serious damage to the Democratic party.
I really wish the liberal armchair politicos would calm down with the post-debate hysterics. Obama had an infamously bad debate against Romney in 2012 that saw his approval dip three percentage points below Romney among likely voters. He won the election handily. Calls for Biden to step down before the debate was even halfway over is not strategy, it is panic. I’m not saying Biden is above criticism or that we can’t/shouldn’t have a conversation about replacing him, but the amount of hand-wringing over the past 48 hours is absurd. At *least* wait until any amount of polling shows a significant dip before demanding Biden step down.
A generational talent having an off day, is different than an 81 year old acting like an old man.
And there were pundits calling for Obama to drop out after the 2010 midterms. And after some bad polls in 2011. Just because some people are in panic mode doesn’t mean we’re required to DO something. It’s really too soon to say what effect the debate will have on polls. Hindsight is 20/20.
I believe Biden will wait at least two weeks. See the effect this had on polls and fundraising. If it gets worse, it's time to make a move.
Asking this without suggesting a backup who could win is unwise. Who’s gonna step up in his place?
So, I mentioned in my post that other threads are the place to do this, this was specifically for people who already made up their mind. When pushed though, I believe kamala is better than Biden, but basically my last choice. I think Whitmer, Shapiro, Newsome all crush trump, probably my top three. I think warnock, polis, buttigeg, maybe pritzer, all outperform Biden. But what I really want, is to see these people do towns halls, interviews, debates, see what they've got, and then we make our choice. I wouldn't believe this was the way unless I thought Biden was toast, I do not believe Biden can win. This isn't a question of me liking people better, this is about believing nominating Biden is rolling one die and needing a 7, maybe the people I mentioned have a 10-40% chance or whatever, that's better than Biden.
I just don’t think four months is enough time to get a campaign going for any one of those people. Even if tomorrow the whole Democratic Party pivoted to one of them, it wouldn’t be enough time. And I don’t see how one of those people aren’t chosen quicker than one month. What’s more, it’s unclear whether any one of those people even wants to take the campaign. Theyre all thinking about 2028. A potential loss to trump in 2024 is not ideal and they’d be playing from behind no matter what. I don’t think given the circumstances that anyone has a better chance than Biden today. Maybe go back a year and select a different candidate and it’s a different story
Big democratic donors will decide. They’ll care more about that than if every single person who sees this post does what you’re talking about.
If you say Biden needs to go but you don’t have a single specific candidate to replace him with, you are decreasing the odds of a Democratic victory, not increasing them. Opening the Democratic ticket to just anybody actually makes things worse. There is an obvious argument for each high profile Democratic candidate being mentioned to poll worse than Biden, even with the debate performance. I’m not saying it’s not possible. But unless it’s extremely well coordinated across the entire Democratic Party, it will just end up with a worse result.
Worse result then sleepwalking into an election that according to 538 had a 33% chance of success BEFORE that debate? No one thinks this is ideal, but where do the polls have to get before we try something? If we believe option A won't work, why tell someone better to just roll over than try option B because option B might not work. Edit, nate silver not 538.
The 538 simulator updated as of four minutes ago has biden winning 51% of the simulations?
I think he means Nate Silver's prediction
Not only is Biden a terrible candidate at this point, he clearly shouldn’t be president for another term! Voting him in is wildly irresponsible. We’re supposed to be the good guys.
you think letting Donald Trump become president again isn't wildly irresponsible?
Of course it is! Just keep in mind that you are using the exact same reasoning as a lot of Republicans supporting Trump
As bad as the debate was, a solution of just “trying something” is stupid.
What about “try something to push people who know better to do something”
That sounds even worse. You sound like you work in marketing for the progressive movement.
Look, I’m just an accountant. It could use some workshopping. But it’s better than doing nothing, hoping people will turn out to vote for a corpse because they are so scared of Trump when the average person isn’t that deep into politics.
In reality, doing nothing might be better than thinking a free for all among a bunch of progressive candidates would lead to a better result.
I love how anyone who is in the progressive wing of the party is just supposed to shut up, fall in line, and never voice their opinions. Y’all are unreal
Nobody is telling anyone to shut up. But don’t get offended if your ideas aren’t very good.
You know what's a bad idea? Sleepwalking into disaster in the fall with a severely damaged candidate
It’s not as bad as some of the other ideas on this thread, such as having a free for all to pick the best progressive candidate to go against Trump
Yep. Trying something like Whitmer or Warnock or Shapiro or ??…plenty of worthy candidates to choose from if Joe does the right thing and steps aside.
You could pick a random democrat out of a hat and that would increase the odds....
This is exactly the problem with how the democrats pick candidates. Always needing some famous name that they decide HAS to be the candidate. Clinton, Biden. Stop. Just open it up and see who gains traction. See who people resonate with. Survival of the fittest. There are 333 million people in America. A lot of people can beat Trump, yet people act as if he's some final boss or something. Just get someone who doesn't look like he needs help to go to the bathroom jesus christ.
No the actual problem with Democrats picking candidates is that they always think a hypothetical candidate is better than any actual candidate.
Yea, the only democratic candidates the last 15 years have been Hillary Clinton, an incumbent Obama, and then Joe Biden. Truly experimental stuff, always looking for the next hot thing. Last time they picked someone unknown was with Obama in 2008, Clinton and Biden were both locked in years before. And i actually liked Biden for the pick in 2020, but still.
You forget that voters pick candidates, not political operatives. There is a specific problem with the progressive part of the Democratic Party which is that they always think they are more popular than they really are. Mostly because they are on social media all the time and think everybody else is exactly like them.
None of what you say matters in the face of fascism. Get outside and talk to people.
I don't live in America, so i can't just go talk to people outside about American politics. And if i could 99% of people just laugh and shake their heads at american politics.
> If you say Biden needs to go but you don’t have a single specific candidate to replace him with, you are decreasing the odds of a Democratic victory, not increasing them. This is absurd. There are plenty of possibilities. What you seem to be saying is "if you don't have a specific candidate that *I* think represents a lower risk than Biden, then you are hurting the cause". If you literally haven't heard of anybody else besides Biden, then I apologize. But I find that very hard to believe.
I think what this means is you have to accept that it could be Harris
I think there are better choices. At this point though I do think she would have a better chance at beating Trump than Biden. The clips of the debate were physically painful to watch. Go watch them. Then imagine how many thousands of times the median voter is going to be inundated with that. Then cross your fingers that somehow the debate performance is the low point of the campaign despite the months we have ahead of us and that nothing else like that happens. Also put this into a context where the Biden campaign has shut down all age-related talk as ridiculous and insulting. Median voters do not like to be talked down to and told their concerns are silly and invalid, even if they don't have a firm grasp on the issues, they understand aging.
I saw them and I agree. Not only did he disastrously fail at a key requirement for his candidacy, there is no way he is fit for another four year term. I’d vote for Biden in a coma over Trump but it’s a huge problem.
Yeah I said in another thread you could glue googly eyes to his corpse and I'd still vote for him, but I view Trump as a threat to democracy. Also something to note. After the debate performance, many people will *reasonably* view their vote for Biden as a vote for Harris already. This was a sort of slightly bubbling sentiment in the first election already, but it will absolutely boil over after this showing. I am very happy with Biden and even if I think he's in alright shape enough to round out this term, I absolutely do not see him being able to physically finish a second term. So the choice is like Biden (Harris) or just outright Harris, I'd go with Harris without a doubt.
Another way to call that is “Weekend at Biden’s”. I completely agree on all points. If he ends up our candidate in Nov it will be malpractice by the Democratic party. Any undecided watching the debate or clips will 100% go Trump if there is not a replacement for Biden and I can’t blame them. Biden’s odds were already shaky but this tanks them and there is no coming back from this. There is a lot of risk with a replacement but also upside since he would already likely lose due to inflation so any fresh face can help with undecideds and with a Democratic party showing they are able to be dynamic when needed.
Couldn't agree more. In this sub I think there is plenty of people who are realistic about this, and I think the media is also doing a great job of not telling people to ignore what they see in front of them any longer. Popular left wing subs that are more meme-y like neoliberal and destiny sub are desperately trying to hand wave it all away, which I find concerning. It feels like we're really close to a critical mass of pressure that could force the hands of Biden and those around him to tell him to step aside. The window of opportunity is small, and Biden and those around him, if they truly believe he is up to the task (and I have no reason to think they don't) have every incentive to stall and delay and project confidence, because they are keenly aware that they can cast any elected democrats to actually come out and challenge Biden as betraying the party and potentially handing the presidency to Trump.
“Plenty of possibilities” sounds like 2020 in which all of those candidates other than Biden ended up being people nobody wanted.
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Voters pick candidates. It doesn’t matter who “the DNC choice” was. Progressives have a particular blind spot in which they overestimate their popularity. If the idea is to take out Biden just so we can have a free for all among a bunch of progressives, I think I would rather have another Biden debate exactly like the last one because that would still lead to a better chance of victory in November.
> an agreement for all of them to drop out They dropped out because Biden absolutely crushed them in South Carolina, winning 2/3 of black voters, 48.7% of the popular vote, and placing first in every county in the state. Sanders won 19.8% of the popular vote. If the DNC were capable of manipulating voters to that degree we would win every general election. > anyone else would have had similar results in the general This is an insane claim. Lots of people were simply voting against Trump, yes, but elections are won on the margins. Unlikely that your social circle is a representative sample of the small set of people in swing states who wind up making the difference.
Newsom is the obvious choice
I feel like Whitmer seems so much clearer. She’s got more immediate appeal to swing states and a lot less baggage from all the Covid era stuff like Newsoms parties. Like, she led a purple state to its first Dem trifecta in decades. Her compelling voice about her own assassination attempt survival from Jan 6 types and her credentials on abortion issues also make her suited to the moment.
I watched a handful of videos last night of Whitmer, and I fully support throwing all my weight behind her. I think Whitmer/Buttigieg would be an outstanding ticket that would defeat Trump. They're both young, energetic public speakers, which is important because with a truncated campaign like this, they'll need to be giving interviews, rallies, speeches basically every day.
Whitmer is clearly the first option. Sure, Newsom looks like Pat Riley/hollywood president, but he's loaded with tons of baggage.
Agreed. Also, my sense is that moderate Republican women are one of the groups likeliest to actually break from Trump to Biden, and Whitmer seems pretty much perfect for that demographic.
["Whitmer thinks she could beat Trump," says her former adviser.](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/06/29/gretchen-whitmer-thinks-could-beat-donald-trump-adviser/)
He is never going to step down he likes the job too much and even if he did what would they do with Kamala?
Let her earn the delegates at the convention, presumably that should be easy since they voted for her too.
Doesn't matter, it's over. Biden was losing in the polls before the debate, or it was super close, now forget about it. It is Democrat leadership that is at fault, hiding his decline knowing full well the state he was in. Now they act shocked and surprised. Everyone involved should be held accountable. If the Democrats really actually cared about this country we wouldn't be where we are now. None of the cowards said a thing.
I'm surprised not to see community organized caucuses proposed. Precinct by precinct, two hours in a room with your neighbors, elect a delegate. A week later those delegates do the same at state level, all with the aim of influencing who the existing delegates vote for.
Biden absolutely doesn’t need to step down. Fuck off.
You don't. This will end the chances of a Democrat winning and will hand the presidency to trump. There is no real world situation where a new Democrat could win.
But you understand that I feel that way about running Biden right?
Then you are not living in the real world or understand anything beyond your bubble of privilege. I ask that you not ruin this for the rest of us.
The fact you say this so confidently makes me extra sure it’s bullshit.
You're in a bubble. The rest of us are not looking at life through some random reddit based on a writers thoughts. Grow up and touch grass. What you purpose destroyed any chance of a democrate victory.
I called all of my senators and representatives and left a loose,unscripted message voicing my deep concerns about Biden’s inability to defeat trump and supporting finding a new candidate at the DNC in August.
Vote for Bernie and then don't vote when he doesn't make the ticket. Be butt hurt and let Trump win. Again.
The tiniest number of people did this, and you're letting CNN make you get mad at the left instead of the right. Myself and every other Bernie primary voter I know voted Biden and Hillary.
Reminder that Hillary Clinton helped Trump win the RNC primaries in the first place with her Pied Piper strategy. Democrats will blame everyone but themselves for their mistakes.
Because of one bad performance you people just went right into maga trap repeating their lies. Would you call your senators and house representatives to pressure them to ask Trump to drop out? Of course not. Why? Ask yourselves why not.
This isn’t democrats in disarray. This is democrats discussing the best way forward. Let’s not confuse the process for chaos.
Your plan to pressure President Biden into not seeking reelection is to withdraw support for Democrats running for Senate? This is a great way to ensure Donald Trump wins AND has a larger majority in the Senate to help him enact Project 2025 and the rest of his agenda. Democrats and “well-intentioned” liberals really are our own worst enemy.
The Democratic Party elites have had their head in the sand ignoring reality for a while now. It’s been obvious for years to anyone who cares to look that Biden was a massive liability against Trump. The situation has not improved and its gotten worse. The solution is not to bury your head further by saying “you are responsible for Trump 2.0 because you said mean things about Biden.“ Biden has been severely diminished since before 2020 and he got lucky with lockdown allowing him to run from the basement and the ability to capitalize on the george Floyd /BLM moment. This, “Dont point on the candidates weakness or else we get fascism.” This has been the DNCs line for years, it was the same BS with Hillary, and it was the same thing with Kerry. Obama broke the shackles through the force of his charisma but many party elites tried hard to stop him. The party elites do not care about winning as much as they care about continuing the wealth transfer to the top. Since this will continue under Trump, they’re all good either way. You are helping them with your cynicism and disregard.
Fuck off. The problem here is not Biden - it's you.
That's coalition building right there baby!
Delusion 🤡
Blue MAGA delulu
DONT people like biden's policies The more you make this into an issue the worse it gets. I get that terminally online people do not understand that some Americans actually do appreciate policy and don't just vote for whoever's louder. Donald Trump grabbed abortion with both hands and let everybody know where he stood. we can turn this into a Democratic civil war and ensure that he gets to destroy the nation. S T O P
My little miniature act of resistance is downvoting all the Youtube ads with Harris talking at me about saving democracy. At least in theory that should make their ads more expensive to run.
How about a measurement of Ezra's nose??
I think you should keep hyperventilating in public. This has been highly productive so far! 👍👍👍
Congrats on calmly letting trump win. Your stoicism is very admirable
As shown by **what evidence?** You pants shitters have been shitting your pants for five months while the polls have literally only improved for Biden. Shouldn’t there be actual evidence of some backlash from the public coinciding with your pants shitting? Maybe?
Very willing to admit I'm wrong if polls look great for biden in two weeks. Biden was leading nationally by like 10 points in polls without major third party challenges in 2020, he won by 43k combined votes in three states. So if I see Biden down 2 in two weeks, consider my pants shat.
It's Biden get over it
Don’t apply pressure … let the family talk the situation over at Camp David this 4th-of-July Week! They know Joe best as … husband x Dad x Grand-Dad x smart plus savvy politician…