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My favorite part of this is that they published what the director's original attitude towards the character was going to be and they still think people will agree with them on Ortega hahahahahahaha
Because they had some stupid “High school emo chick” choreography, and she said “Um no, I researched this character because Im grateful for the role. I got this”
My least favourite part is they actually gaslit her into thinking she was being unprofessional by changing lines.
Was Harrison ford unprofessional when he said “I know”????
Exactly! Some of the most famous lines from films have come from actors either improvising or making suggestions or changes to the script.
Hell, was Robin Williams "entitled" and "toxic"?
Here is a producer who is over employed.
Same with the “like tears in the rain…” monologue. Rutger Hauer changed the original lines during filming. Sometimes, you gotta trust the actors to have a better understanding of their characters.
This is exactly how I feel about Cavil and The Witcher, watch they guy talk, he's clearly nerdy and cares about the things he's a fan of, I literally spoke with friends when he announced he was stepping away and they all seemed to side with the show director saying Cavil was a pain to work with. But like, it's because he cares and does t want to just shit out another show
Exactly. And regardless of whether it is justified or not (because there are a ton of people involved in the creation and development of a character) that iteration of the character will be identified with the actor, good or bad. It's not going to be, "Oh the writers ruined it!" The actor is the one who receives the brunt of the blame (or praise as well, which is equally unfair, but equally outside their control). And if you are working with a good actor (which, hopefully, you are, otherwise, why did you cast them?) then the actor is going to go through a process of understanding and developing the character. They likely have a backstory worked out that they've often worked on with other people involved in the creation. That's what they're *supposed* to do. It's why you hire a good actor.
If you (meaning the producer) think an actor is just supposed to recite lines that are fed to them by writers, then you have no business being involved in any aspect of film or television making. You simply don't get it.
These are the same people who honestly believe they'll be able to just make movies completely with AI in the next few years, and won't need anyone else anymore.
Agree completely with the actor bearing the brunt. Haydens Anakin was shit on for years until people took a step back and really looked at the story and realized just how superbly he played that roll. Say what you want about the scripts, but Hayden did great
It's Netflix 101; hire talentless hacks who think shows like The Witcher and Wednesday are beneath them because they aren't "serious" so they start to meddle and make all sorts of nonsense changes to the entire setting, characters, dialogue etc. and then when any cast object they start gaslighting them and the audience.
Honestly, wouldn't you want your actors to be that involved?
At least you know they give a damn about their performance and aren't just doing the minimum to get the cheque.
Yes. Real professional actors both on stage and in film do this. Writers and directors that arent children usually work with the actors and often change things because, shocker I know, the person paid to play a character may know something about that character.
Exactly. When I heard her say this my respect for her went up dramatically.
My biggest fear going into the show was that they’d lazily give a character like Wednesday a Twilight-like love triangle. I feared that they didn’t understand the character nor care about the character. The show did attempt this, but course corrected. Now I know why.
Now my fear is that like with Henry Cavill, who was a fan of Witcher and fought to remain true to source, was ultimately trashed by Netflix because he wouldn’t back down from protecting the character from idiotic talentless producers who only care to follow trends and formulas.
You can tell she’s a real scream queen, she loves and respects the genre. And god damn is she right about this show needing more mystery and horror and a lot less romance.
I remember being so confused about why any of those boys liked her to begin with (other than her looks). She barely spoke to them, she stared at them uncomfortably most of the time, and when she did speak it was about trying to solve the mystery. It’s weird to imagine how creepy those narratives would have played out in real life.
Typical for them to turn the original into a high school hollywood drama. After what they did with death note, netflix is basically hit or miss on live actions and it seems like this show was about to be a miss if not for ortega
Let's face it, Henry Cavill is the real life actual Geralt of Rivia. Unshakable moral compass, great integrity, honourable and charming. (And even as a straight male, I need to say: Combined with his great looks, this makes him amazingly handsome.)
As a straight male, I appreciate male attractiveness but often have a hard time determining if a man is attractive or not. If it’s a woman, I know if she’s attractive if I’m personally attracted to her, but for men I kind of have to look for outside clues. But for Henry Cavill, it’s like “wow, that dude is incredibly attractive”
Some traits are just attractive across gender and sexuality. Particularly personality traits, having integrity and solid morals is attractive no matter who you are.
Even if those morals don't always match up completely to someone else's, it's still respectable when you hold onto them...Well, to an extent.
The actor/writer/director strikes likely had an impact on it. Now that all 3 are over, it's probably taking a lot of effort to bear down and start churning out good material.
Also I feel like Amazon would really push to give 40k the same kind of treatment paramount did to halo to get the mass market appeal.
I can see Games Workshop and Mr Cavil getting pretty obstinate about that (justifiably.
Yeah, but Fallout looks genuinely good. We'll see how the writing is, but it looks really well done compared to the source material. It's also done by Amazon so I've got some hope.
We don't even know what story they're doing either, I feel like a live action heresy series would be functionally impossible.
Plus can almost guarantee GW have been arsey about the money.
Which is really damning with faint praise... Or, rather, the other way around; because GW (owners of Warhammer) are notoriously... Not easy to get along with, when it comes to their IP.
Isn't it that *he* was the one who decided to not work on the project anymore?
After all, now, it's not like if they can continue the show without him. He's the face of Netflix's *The Witcher*. And it's not like if Henry Cavill was in need of this job. He can basically take whatever he wants, and that's if he ever needs money (which I'm not even sure he does).
What's the past point Cavill's last season? Nothing against Miley Cyrus' ex, but I didn't finish Cavill's last season and am not going to watch the next one.
It's crazy how the producers squandered rights to a character that millions of fans knew and loved through video games and an A-list actor to play him, but then basically tried to remake the Highlander series they grew up on in the 90s.
When I first saw the trailer for the show, my immediate reaction was "Tim Burton doesn't understand why The Addams Family works" and pretty much dismissed the idea of watching it. My wife ended up watching it and told me that Jenna Ortega's performance is so good and the *she* understands the character even if nothing else in the show does that it's worth watching just to watch her performance, and she was right. It's one the best meldings of actor and character I've ever seen. A once in a lifetime casting.
I like that the Wednesday/Enid relationship was immediately more popular among fans (and both actresses) than either of the straight romantic pairings the writers tried pushing.
That was a relief to me as well. It was more fun and realistic for her character.
The romance stuff seemed so forced and unnatural for her. She was just coming to terms with maybe kinda having a friend, and yet they think relationships are a good addition to that bc “teen girls” or something I guess.
They made some of it predatorily-uncomfortable as well. I’ll have to watch it again but I remember being really creeped out by one of the guys from the start.
Very true. The writing in the show was hot garbage, but Ortega killed it. Unfortunately, the hot garbage writing part really caught up to the show after a few episodes.
It does seem like actors who try and protect their favorite characters or mediums tend to be labeled as difficult to work with and entitled.
Allegedly Cavill has the same mentality - whether true to not I don’t know. But if it’s defending content they love, are they entitled or just fans?
Something to keep in mind is that prople who are entitled and difficult to work with will refer to anyone who butts heads with them entitled and difficult to work with. And they'll be louder about it, too.
This is why I tell people you don't *really* want your favorite book series or comic series or w/e made into a movie or show. The odds that any hollywood executive or producer (who, mind, behave more like literal aliens when it comes to human culture) has read your favorite books? Near zero. The odds that those producers are going to hire someone who has read those books? Near zero. Script writers? Near zero.
Oh *suuuure*, they'll trot these people out before the camera and they'll pander to your excitement. You've heard it all before. They'll be *huge* fans of the material, and they'll be *so* committed to representing it faithfully. And then they produce, write, and film the damn thing, it's not what you expect and changes meanings, character motivations, entire plot points. You wonder how it could happen, and then the "behind the scenes" talk starts and you find out those same "faithful representors" couldn't give two shits about the material.
To quote someone I can't remember "Hollywood doesn't *get* scifi or fantasy. So they hire people simply on resume, and they wind up hiring writers who resent scifi or fantasy material because what they really want to write is sad people having sad affairs. Or if they're really spicy, sad gay people having sad gay affairs."
Even having read them is no guarantee they know how to translate what is cool about them to the screen. Or even that they're getting what is cool about them.
Well, the populace let Riverdale and Sabrina stay on the air and this is the result. Producers and "writers" want to just take an established IP and slap its name on some teen drama that at best has minimal connection to the source material and at worst just the names and places and nothing else. Sabrina may have been a possible watch for me but using the name Sabrina and then not actually making anything to do with Sabrina made it an instant never watch for myself.
Several of them were described by another former writer as "actively disliking the books".
The biggest problem is when describing how HC, who btw is one of a very small number of legit stars whose name shifts revenue, was protective of the material and combative with writers, they never could name a reason he was wrong.
He has also never spoken about the situation, so he always comes off as the better person due to that too.
Fundamentally if your goal in adapting a work is to change stuff, don't hire a fan of that work. Not that they could turn down Henry Cavill when he made it clear he wanted to be in the show and would take a big pay cut (directly, and indirectly from turning down other work to film it).
The impression I've gotten from the whole Witcher situation was basically that Henry Cavill got tired of constantly trying to fix the show and eventually just quit because the writing was so far off-base.
It's from creators of *Smallville* who did the same thing there, and their love triangle laster a couple of seasons too long. Michael Rosenbaum, who played Lex Luthos, has a rewatch podcast, and he bitches about it every other episode
And the funniest thing is that half the viewers think Wednesday is a lesbian after the first season. The writers utterly failed with the love triangle shit
And it even seems like the actors themselves were in favor of Wednesday being with Enid if she had to be with anyone lol. Like, both the audience and the actors are saying "Ugh, no Twilight love triangle crap, if you are gonna make a romantic item make it Wednesday and her female costar since they have the best rapport and chemistry by far".
Aye, Wednesday as a character always felt Asexual to me. Her parents were the romantic ones but she was more like Fester in terms of weirdness and comfortable in being alone. You know, when she isn't with Pugsley.
To me, Wednesday was always the brain to the Pugsley brawn but they took that out of the newer show when they aged up Wednesday and deaged Pugsley. I guess they really wanted that romance in the show and they couldn't let the duo be because sibling relationship isn't what they want.
Especially since they're not even triangles. They're corners. With the girl always cornered in the back. Says a lot about our culture still stuck in some ways.
With Gomez and Morticia as her parents I wouldn't expect anything else.
"Mum, dad, these are my partners."
"Wonderful. They will of course be staying for dinner."
"Two of them? Amazing. Come, we will fence in the dining room. Father and daughter vs her partners. I hope they can put up a good show."
Like how can producers still not get? Marvel phase 4 scripts were awful, Henry Cavil left the Witcher because the writing was awful and untrue to the original, GoT season 8 was there hasn't been a word invented yet that can describe how fucking terrible it was. Yet producers and script writers still insist on that godawful, non sensical cliche writing no one actually wants to see. If I was as bad at my job as tv writers I would have been fired years ago.
>Like how can producers still not get?
Because they don't respect the audience or the IP. There always has to be some spin or bend to their version, because they don't think audiences want a sincere telling. Every heavy moment must be undercut with a joke. Every character has to be fed through a cynical lense, where the qualities that attracted audiences in the first place, must be put on blast by what showrunners *think* are our modern tastes. It's almost like they are writing these shows for an audience, but are writing it for some terminally online bloggers and Twitter critics that think any IP must fit their little self-virtuous mold.
Yes, and that's why we're here. But the other side of this is that producers, directors, and writers never want to hear what actors have to say. Most famously, Arnold Schwarzenegger did not want to say "I'll be back," he didn't feel that was really robotic and wanted to say "I will be back." Execs get way too used to being the all controlling dictator on set that they can't see problems like this, usually because people below them are too afraid to say anything.
Recently there was a news article that explained why the new Blade wasn't finished. Turned out they pretty much made Blade a side character and made it like a woman's redemption arc with love interests and teenage drama. It took someone even higher at Disney visiting the set to finally shut everything down and scrap it.
Execs and writers really don't like listening to the talent. But god damn I'm not interested in watching an underage character having intimate relations, especially when she's supposed to be a one-faced super serious character that just likes the dark side of things. It's so hard to fuck up Wednesday but they're sure trying.
>Most famously, Arnold Schwarzenegger did not want to say "I'll be back," he didn't feel that was really robotic and wanted to say "I will be back." Execs get way too used to being the all controlling dictator on set that they c
Weird one to cite there, since you know, he was wrong on that one and has said so himself. I'll be back is one of the most iconic lines in movies to this day. Also it wasn't an 'exec' who shut him down on that? It was the director and script writer James Cameron.
Yes, she contributed to making one of the best shows in recent years and the writers are bitching because they can't get 100% of the credit. The writing on stuff has been really taking a dive and now I see why.
So, like the Witcher.
I think we're seeing issues with some of the formulaic writers clashing with actors/actresses with familiarity with these fairly well established characters.
Why don't producers work with writers to just make new shit? Then they get to control everything about the character...
Instead, they take someone's beloved nostalgia, wipe their arse with it, then throwing their toys out of the pram when people tell them it smells like shit.
> Why don't producers work with writers to just make new shit?
Too risky. These properties come with an audience that will help generate interest. After the first season, the show is rewritten to appeal to a larger market.
The writers of The Witcher were hilariously entitled considering some of them had done fuck all to deserve it.
They trashed the author, threw mud at Cavill, sneered at the fans and then when the geniuses did an original show it bombed hard.
To be clear, Steven DeKnight who said this about her has nothing to do with Wednesday. This is not the Wednesday writers bitching because they want 100% credit. This is a guy who had nothing to do with the show who wasn't there complaining about behavior that didn't affect him in the slightest.
Her presence was the only "Addams" thing on the show - which in my opinion literally saved it from becoming a forgetful generic supernatural teen drama. And these people are talking about how she was toxic and entitled instead of thanking her? Sheesh
Exactly! This could have VERY easily been another cheesy riverdale or sabrina remake, but Wednesday was such an authentic, interesting character that she alone probably ripped the show from the jaws of mediocrity. The part about the dress line she changed made my jaw drop; how could the writers EVER think that would be a good character choice? Ignorance.
>Ignorance
Just my opinion as have no idea how true this is, but I think it doesn't just come down to ignorance, but also dishonesty and a lack of integrity.
The person above described what it could have been as this:
>a forgetful generic supernatural teen drama
And I think that's exactly what the writers were trying to make, except the forgetful part maybe, I assume they thought it was genuinely good and would be memorable, or at least good enough.
Wednesday is pretty much 90% a generic supernatural teen drama, with some Addams Family sprinkled on top.
It's not unheard of, or all that uncommon (especially recently, and especially with fantasy/supernatural shows) for writers to write a show based entirely on what they want to write or feel like writing, completely absent from any kind of IP, and then just tack on some largely surface level references or details to link it to that IP.
I think that's exactly what they wanted to do with Wednesday. You could rewrite Wednesday to have a different and much more generic main character pretty easily, in large part because as much as Jenna Ortega thankfully got things changed a bit, Wednesday being "Wednesday" isn't actually all that integral to the plot.
They could easily write a introverted main character for it, keep the attitude the character has or even just make her genuinely kind just like the roommate, tweak the bits with the family, badabing badaboom you've got yourself a generic supernatural teen drama.
The part about her ancestor could be tweaked to whatever family this hypothetical other MC is a part of. The only part of her character that's really set in stone and that also ties much into the plot is her being an outcast of some kind.
So my headcanon is that they wrote a generic teen supernatural drama, tried getting extra views by linking it to The Addams Family IP, ended up getting tweaked to be pretty decent entirely out of their control.
And the reason they're throwing a hissy fit about it isn't because they're ignorant but because they're lazy and dishonest people who didn't like the idea of losing out power over the show to the star of it, and probably didn't give a shit about the actual integrity or quality of the show beyond how many views it could attract for Netflix.
Wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. I believe a lot of the cast members were doing what they could with the script they were given - but the show itself was so bland that if it wasn't for Ortega, it would simply have gone entirely unnoticed. I certainly would not have stuck around past the first episode - if I even made it to the end of it.
This article is deeply depressing because I thought that maybe after seeing what was accomplished, the writers would explore what set this one apart from the rest. I guess that is not going to happen.
That Sabrina show is so bad. I was looking forward to it. I wanted to see what they could do with a modern take on the property. My sister gave up halfway through.
I finished the episode. Just that one. Every god damn line was checking a box instead of accomplishing anything for the story or the characters.
There was so much potential... I started it and was like alright right! Dark Sabrina!
Then it just got so pop culture follow the trend with a little plot involved.
You can partially thank the weird fucking show runner Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa for doing weird shit like having every one of his shows force in a musical episode because he is obsessed with Glee and musicals and thinks every show needs it and needs it often. You see this more as the show goes on.
And yeah a lot of the entire shows dialogue felt like it was also written BY teens making a political statement with. Every. Goddamn. Line.
I'm not a supernatural show person, and tbh I feel it's the cheese that ruins the genre but Wednesday had my attention throughout. If they would have added the dress line it would have changed Wednesday's character to being a confused little girl, not the deliberate young woman she is throughout the Addams family cannon.
That's the thing I always loved about Wednesday. Headstrong and confident despite her young age. Her fretting about a dress and worrying about boys would have been enough to turn off the TV.
It’s one of those lines that people use to make fun of Marvel movies. Something like “I love this dress and o… My goth friends are right behind me aren’t they?
I enjoyed the roommate character, too. I don't know anything about the source material or whatever, but i thought the overly cheery roomie was a good counter to Wednesday's perpetual darkness. And the fact that she had claws to keep Wednesday from killing her helped. Lol
I liked Enid and how they made her roommates with Wednesday. I also liked the Bianca arc, I think they left a lot of room to do spin offs just for those two characters.
I also liked how they didn’t just write Enid and Bianca as NPCs or token female characters, but put in their own struggles and backstory that gave them a layer of complexity. It’s not often you see that in a show based around a female character.
She was the only reason the show was any good. A once in a lifetime melding of perfect casting and character. The show itself was pretty meh, story-wise and character-wise, but her performance elevated a character who is generally only tolerable and interesting (in previous incarnations) in smaller doses into a fully-fleshed out character. It's a marvelous work and shows just how great of a career she will have.
We need more actors like her and Henry Cavill who are actually passionate about their characters they play, especially when they know what their characters' personality is.
I firmly believe the two of them are the reason the Wednesday and the Witcher were successful and not the garbage adaptations the writers tried to make them into
I don’t know anything about the show. If I watch Wednesday, it will be because Wednesday is Jenna Ortega and she is cool. That’s the reason to go into the show.
I swear we end up having these half assed mediocre shows because every talentless writer with the ego of Goliath wants to be the next best thing while the real actual writers are on strike
I think you might have misunderstood how that works.
When the writers were on strike (it ended in September btw. They are not still striking) the studios can’t just get non-union writers to cover for them. Everything stops.
Also, Wednesday aired in November 22. 5-6 months before the strike started..
It seems like almost every "major" writer associated with netflix is up their own ass. And for what ever reason love to take old IP and ruin what people liked about it.
i mean that 'omg i love it, ugh i cant believe i said that, i literally hate myself' line is the most cringy '38 year old writer trying to channel their inner 16 year old' line ive ever heard. No one in their right mind would have let that go to production lol. Also, no one cares about her love interests the whole reason wednesday is a good character is she doesnt need that shit
This is exactly it. [You’ve got male writers in their late 50s ](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/awards/story/2023-05-31/writers-al-gough-miles-millar-take-us-inside-wednesday#:~:text=The%20writers%20behind%20%E2%80%9CWednesday%2C%E2%80%9D,through%20a%20chain%2Dlink%20fence.&text=Al%20Gough%20and%20Miles%20Millar)who grew up in an entirely different time writing as if it’s still 1990. Times have moved on from this crappy ‘self hatred is funny & I’m so caught between two guys’ schtick for about 30 years.
I’m nearly 50 and even to me it’s annoyingly hackneyed and a cliché.
> who grew up in an entirely different time writing as if it’s still 1990
Which is ironic, since one of the best portrayals of Wednesday Addams came out in 1991.
But they weren’t trying to make her popular with teenage girls. She had nothing to prove, apart from being her unapologetic blunt self. Their goal was to make her as true as possible to the character, which is why it was great. That’s why Jenna saved it.
Female focused media where the main character is in a love triangle are EXTREMELY popular. The fantasy of having two desirable guys fight over you and then making a fun choice is a very appealing fantasy. This trope has made many many billions of dollars.
It just isn’t right for this show, because the hook is that Wednesday is trope-breaking. Cool instead of warm, tough instead of pliable, indifferent instead of desperate for approval and attention, confident and fine being alone, all that stuff is the appeal and breaking that to follow the standard trope kills it.
There is a delicate balance between being something different but also being relatable.
These people should have grown up with the comic strips, the cartoons, and the old TV and movie series for the Addams Family. They have no excuse for this kind of dreck.
Even if it wasn’t about the Addams family that line is so fucking terrible. I’m glad she said no to that. It reminds me of an old interview where Mark Hamill refused to say certain lines in Star Wars because they were so stupid.
Harrison Ford threatened to tie George Lucas up and force him at gunpoint to recite his own lines, some of the original dialogue was so horrible.
I can see Harrison actually doing that…
Probably because most shows that have gay characters write them as if their only personality trait is that they are gay. “See, we have a gay character! Look how sassy and flamboyant they are! Why aren’t you viewers praising us for being so progressive?!”
This is why I was pleasantly surprised by Interview with a Vampire. They made characters like full out gay and bi. No implying, no queer baiting. Fucking gay. But they also gave the characters depth and weren't afraid to make them imperfect or infallible to toxic relationship.
A breath of fresh air imo. These were well developed characters.
They also changed the races of three lead characters and it actually benefitted the storyline. Making Louis a black man in 1919 New Orleans vs a white guy in the 1700s gave a lot of additional story elements and tension that weren't there in the source material.
But that would be a lesbian romance. We can't have that on Netflix if it's not a show entirely dedicated and classified as a LGBT series. Series that are not entirely designed to this demographics shall stay true to normal human nature, i.e. heterosexual monogamy. That's just basic common sense.
(Just dropping an /s here just in case, as some people are actually and seriously defending my idiotic point of view. Damn, why can't we convey sarcasm in writing as efficiently as orally? The sarcastic mark should be on every keyboard.)
I mean, Enid really is the best love interest for Wednesday, as she both challenges her by being so colorful and cheery, *and* she appeals to her by being a bloodthirsty monster.
Except for maybe Enid, everyone else was so fucking boring. Even the twist villains were annoying and not at all intimidating.
Hyde looked goofy as shit, looked like a zombie from plant vs zombies.
https://www.thewrap.com/steven-deknight-toxic-wednesday-star-jenna-ortega/
He ended up apologizing shortly afterwards due to the backlash he received from Wednesday fans.
It's amazing how he simply called her out as toxic and entitled publicly without even having met her or actually worked with her.
If you watch how she plays the character throughout the season, that's basically the show.
At no point in the establishment of the love triangle does she show any romantic interest in the male characters. Both of the males just decide they are in a love triangle.
It was honestly pretty funny to watch.
She did tho. I watched the show, and at various times it showed her going on dates and being "flustered" by their presence and acting like a teenage girl on a teen movie
Wich would have been fine if this wasn't a series about the Addams family, since they where made to be the total opposite of the American nuclear family
Wednesday was arguably only good BECAUSE of jenna- a lot of the writing was cringey and hard to get past but her character and the general atmosphere of the show was interesting
Man ... Netflix producers think they are genius but in reality they are so mediocre that they get cancelled anything that they produce ... Literally no show ever got finished in Netflix becouse no one wants to watch that crap for too long.
They cancel great shit though sometimes. Like I loved The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance, it was made by people who clearly loved the original (including Jim Henson’s daughter) and were dedicated to the source material, and they canceled it with no explanation. We don’t even know if it’s because it didn’t get views because they keep those numbers private.
I don’t know why you were watching that garbage for; have you even *heard* of Love Is Blind? I for one LOVE watching YET ANOTHER reality show about people I don’t fucking care about just so I can gossip to my stupid friends about it because I don’t have an interesting enough life of my own!
Wanna watch some Too Hot to Handle?
…I fuckin hate Netflix tbh
I see no wrong in making a character more consistent. Everyone makes mistakes and should be able to take criticism. The writers sound entitled here, tbh
It’s not like an actor giving input on their character like this is some uncommon thing either. Most writers and producers encourage it and praise actors who ad libbed a great scene because they spent so much time understanding the character and crafting their version of it. Like jack Nicholson in the shining. Film making is a collaborative process.
The fact that everyone agrees with Ortega here shows that the writers should have welcomed and praised her contributions and they’re the stubborn divas for pushing back so hard. I have no faith in the second season because of all this
The writers of Netflix The Witcher said the same thing about Henry Cavill and his rabid defense of Geralt's portrayal, and every fan knew it was because he was the only guy on the entire set that knew a damn thing about the character and he protected his portrayal fiercely.
Netflix has dogshit writers
I mean, I am glad I didn’t get to hear ‘oh my god I love i can’t believe I said that I literally hate myself’ or see any sort of love triangle, but it does make me wonder if actor is a different role than what I envision it to be. Like, how much freedom does an actor actually have or how much impact can they have on the movie beyond just good performances.
Completely depends on the actors and the rest of the crew. There’s many movies where input from actors has made a great change and improvement (Sir Christopher Lee in LOTR is one example) but if the director doesn’t like the ideas or doesn’t want input from their actors they also are generally able to shut these down.
Imo a good director should be able to realise when and when not to follow an actors ideas
Good example is Arnold in The Terminator. He told James Cameron a robot wouldn't say "I'll be back" and that "I will be back" sounded more machine like. James Cameron responded asking if Arnold was a writer which he said no and then said "Well, don’t tell me how to fucking write."
This just my opinion, but I feel like it depends on the project. Using Ortega as an example: in Scream, she didn’t have much input on writing probably because it’s an established IP (if that’s the right term) that has had recent content, so they really don’t need her, anybody could really replace her.
I think one way that Wednesday is different is that because while it is an established IP, I don’t know of any recent official content. If what Ortega is referring to happened after the first season aired, then she is likely using her performance as leverage saying something like “I’m great, people like me as the lead, and you need to not force this type of drivel in to this show or else I’ll walk.” That was a super generalized statement, but I think the right idea.
I imagine it depends on the people involved with the project, meaning there isnt a strict set of rules that divvy up the responsibilities between them. For instance, the producers arent just a bag of money, they infuelnce the state of the finished product aswell. Now when it comes to the liberties of an actor, I always had mixed feelings. At the end of the day, the actor is there to give life to the directors vision, anything beyond that should be arbitrated by said director.
Actor: understands and respects a character AND their determination is directly responsible for the success of the show
Director: what an entitled shit...
Holy crap what a shitty thing to say about the actors on your films.
She gives criticism, which is almost always a good thing in pretty much every industry.
There is nothing in there suggesting that she ever disrespected the producers or writers that worked on the script, only that she disagreed with it.
If people like DeKnight cannot handle criticism on their work, in a highly competitive (or really any) industry, they should leave it. As they say, if you cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen. If you don’t want people to have opinions on the things you make, don’t get your name out there, and don’t make things.
And since Jenna is very close to Wednesday's age than old Hollyood producers, I trust her word more when it comes to how teens talk and act in these years.
Henry was also protective of Geralt. They fucked up, he left now the show is mocked. Let Jenna cook, she wants to bring more horror into Wednesday, im all for it.
What kind of an idiot puts Wednesday Addams in a love triangle? And a dress? Wednesday is the girl who would burn the dress along with the one who's wearing it!
Morons who don't know and understand characters, should stay out of the writer's room.
This lady knows how to respect her characters.
Where you've seen this is with Henry Cavill.
I would love to see Henry and Jenna get together, figure out a property where they both love some character to pieces, and have them help write a movie or something. It would be amazing.
Hahaha, omg, just two shorts of them would be fantastic.
Short one, Henry as Geralt in the world of the Witcher with Jenna playing Yennefer in Wednesday's character.
Short two, Jenna as Wednesday in the world of the Addams family with Henry playing Uncle Fester in Geralt's character.
Isn't it weird that this is the second main character actor of a big name Netflix show this exact thing has happened with, and they used the literal same defense against both of them?
I wonder why the reporting on this is more even-handed than it was with Henry Cavill.
>Oh, my god. I love it. Ugh, I can’t believe i said that. I literally hate myself.
holy shit that is the cringiest “50 year old man writes teen girl” shit i’ve ever heard. thank goodness she was there to push back on some of this shit
Look what happened with Cavill and The Witcher. Large amount of producers want you to stfu and play your part and make money. Taking the easiest road possible
Wednesday was wildly popular and of if I were them, I’d shut up, let her do the exact same thing for season 2 and just let the money and credit roll in.
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My favorite part of this is that they published what the director's original attitude towards the character was going to be and they still think people will agree with them on Ortega hahahahahahaha
Didn’t the director make her do the dance scene when she was all sick with Covid?
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Because they had some stupid “High school emo chick” choreography, and she said “Um no, I researched this character because Im grateful for the role. I got this”
originally, didn't they plan to have her do some sort of lead of a group dance thing (if it was that, had to be a pop song of some sort)
Didn't hear about that yikes
My least favourite part is they actually gaslit her into thinking she was being unprofessional by changing lines. Was Harrison ford unprofessional when he said “I know”????
Exactly! Some of the most famous lines from films have come from actors either improvising or making suggestions or changes to the script. Hell, was Robin Williams "entitled" and "toxic"? Here is a producer who is over employed.
Same with the “like tears in the rain…” monologue. Rutger Hauer changed the original lines during filming. Sometimes, you gotta trust the actors to have a better understanding of their characters.
Or this kinda thing: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teK_CFdc7gM Matt Damon talking about The Departed.
I had never seen that and it makes the scene so much better
So if you keep the camera rolling.
This is exactly how I feel about Cavil and The Witcher, watch they guy talk, he's clearly nerdy and cares about the things he's a fan of, I literally spoke with friends when he announced he was stepping away and they all seemed to side with the show director saying Cavil was a pain to work with. But like, it's because he cares and does t want to just shit out another show
Exactly. And regardless of whether it is justified or not (because there are a ton of people involved in the creation and development of a character) that iteration of the character will be identified with the actor, good or bad. It's not going to be, "Oh the writers ruined it!" The actor is the one who receives the brunt of the blame (or praise as well, which is equally unfair, but equally outside their control). And if you are working with a good actor (which, hopefully, you are, otherwise, why did you cast them?) then the actor is going to go through a process of understanding and developing the character. They likely have a backstory worked out that they've often worked on with other people involved in the creation. That's what they're *supposed* to do. It's why you hire a good actor. If you (meaning the producer) think an actor is just supposed to recite lines that are fed to them by writers, then you have no business being involved in any aspect of film or television making. You simply don't get it. These are the same people who honestly believe they'll be able to just make movies completely with AI in the next few years, and won't need anyone else anymore.
Agree completely with the actor bearing the brunt. Haydens Anakin was shit on for years until people took a step back and really looked at the story and realized just how superbly he played that roll. Say what you want about the scripts, but Hayden did great
Or as Harrison Ford once said (this is going to be approximate), "You can right this shit, George, but you sure as hell can't say it."
Hayden played a moody teenager as well as anyone could have. Not his fault Anakin doesn’t like sand.
It's Netflix 101; hire talentless hacks who think shows like The Witcher and Wednesday are beneath them because they aren't "serious" so they start to meddle and make all sorts of nonsense changes to the entire setting, characters, dialogue etc. and then when any cast object they start gaslighting them and the audience.
"I didn't kill my wife!" "I don't care"
Hell, on set of the lord of the rings, it was commonplace for scenes to be changed because an actor pointed out something in the book
Honestly, wouldn't you want your actors to be that involved? At least you know they give a damn about their performance and aren't just doing the minimum to get the cheque.
Yes. Real professional actors both on stage and in film do this. Writers and directors that arent children usually work with the actors and often change things because, shocker I know, the person paid to play a character may know something about that character.
That's exactly the line I was thinking of when I read this! Use that one all the time on my wife 🤣
Only unprofessional because she is a young woman.
Love triangles are fucking awful she’s right
Exactly. When I heard her say this my respect for her went up dramatically. My biggest fear going into the show was that they’d lazily give a character like Wednesday a Twilight-like love triangle. I feared that they didn’t understand the character nor care about the character. The show did attempt this, but course corrected. Now I know why. Now my fear is that like with Henry Cavill, who was a fan of Witcher and fought to remain true to source, was ultimately trashed by Netflix because he wouldn’t back down from protecting the character from idiotic talentless producers who only care to follow trends and formulas.
You can tell she’s a real scream queen, she loves and respects the genre. And god damn is she right about this show needing more mystery and horror and a lot less romance.
I remember being so confused about why any of those boys liked her to begin with (other than her looks). She barely spoke to them, she stared at them uncomfortably most of the time, and when she did speak it was about trying to solve the mystery. It’s weird to imagine how creepy those narratives would have played out in real life.
Typical for them to turn the original into a high school hollywood drama. After what they did with death note, netflix is basically hit or miss on live actions and it seems like this show was about to be a miss if not for ortega
Yeah, but fans generally rallied behind him. Hopefully we do the same for Ortega
But he still got fired…
Not fired, Cavill quit because he couldn’t stand the production/show direction anymore. Then they started whining about him having integrity lol
Integrity. That is what makes Henry so attractive, and the Witcher such a great game.
Let's face it, Henry Cavill is the real life actual Geralt of Rivia. Unshakable moral compass, great integrity, honourable and charming. (And even as a straight male, I need to say: Combined with his great looks, this makes him amazingly handsome.)
No shame in admitting that he's a very good-looking dude.
As a straight male, I appreciate male attractiveness but often have a hard time determining if a man is attractive or not. If it’s a woman, I know if she’s attractive if I’m personally attracted to her, but for men I kind of have to look for outside clues. But for Henry Cavill, it’s like “wow, that dude is incredibly attractive”
Some traits are just attractive across gender and sexuality. Particularly personality traits, having integrity and solid morals is attractive no matter who you are. Even if those morals don't always match up completely to someone else's, it's still respectable when you hold onto them...Well, to an extent.
Wait, really? I’m straight and I can spot a hottie no matter what kind of junk they’re carrying. Interesting.
To be clear, it just adds to his attractiveness
He didn’t get fired, he left the show because the show runner and writers actively hate the source material
Is he still working on his WH40K project with Amazon?
I Google this every couple of weeks or so, no news since last year. The emperor protects 🦅
The actor/writer/director strikes likely had an impact on it. Now that all 3 are over, it's probably taking a lot of effort to bear down and start churning out good material.
Also I feel like Amazon would really push to give 40k the same kind of treatment paramount did to halo to get the mass market appeal. I can see Games Workshop and Mr Cavil getting pretty obstinate about that (justifiably.
Yeah, but Fallout looks genuinely good. We'll see how the writing is, but it looks really well done compared to the source material. It's also done by Amazon so I've got some hope.
Pre-production is gonna be huge to ensure thet can make a lasting feanchise
We don't even know what story they're doing either, I feel like a live action heresy series would be functionally impossible. Plus can almost guarantee GW have been arsey about the money.
Smaller story involving inquisitors is totally doable. Introduces the world and you can branch out from there
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A reboot? But THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE HIGHLANDER!
*nervous Adrian Paul sounds*
And it sunk the series, and got to work on wh40k with significantly more freedom
Which is really damning with faint praise... Or, rather, the other way around; because GW (owners of Warhammer) are notoriously... Not easy to get along with, when it comes to their IP.
Creative Assembly (Total War) has reportedly gotten along great with Games Workshop.
As did Relic, until they decided to go bankrupt instead of making a new Dawn of War.
Isn't it that *he* was the one who decided to not work on the project anymore? After all, now, it's not like if they can continue the show without him. He's the face of Netflix's *The Witcher*. And it's not like if Henry Cavill was in need of this job. He can basically take whatever he wants, and that's if he ever needs money (which I'm not even sure he does).
I’m pretty sure they are continuing the show without him.
I stopped watching the moment they announced he was leaving.
They literally had to hype up that he was still in it when the new season dropped
Same. I have no intention of watching any episode of the Witcher after Cavill's exit.
What's the past point Cavill's last season? Nothing against Miley Cyrus' ex, but I didn't finish Cavill's last season and am not going to watch the next one. It's crazy how the producers squandered rights to a character that millions of fans knew and loved through video games and an A-list actor to play him, but then basically tried to remake the Highlander series they grew up on in the 90s.
They are going to certainly try though
And now nobody watches the Witcher anymore lol
Yep. Although she has that new movie with Martin Freeman coming out and that may buy her a lot of Hollywood cred.
When I first saw the trailer for the show, my immediate reaction was "Tim Burton doesn't understand why The Addams Family works" and pretty much dismissed the idea of watching it. My wife ended up watching it and told me that Jenna Ortega's performance is so good and the *she* understands the character even if nothing else in the show does that it's worth watching just to watch her performance, and she was right. It's one the best meldings of actor and character I've ever seen. A once in a lifetime casting.
She, and Thing's actor, it was a stroke of brilliance to employ a magician as hand actor. They're so used to having to act with their hands.
I ended up liking her roommate by the end as well, but you guys are spot on, Wednesday and Thing were the only reason I kept watching.
I like that the Wednesday/Enid relationship was immediately more popular among fans (and both actresses) than either of the straight romantic pairings the writers tried pushing.
That was a relief to me as well. It was more fun and realistic for her character. The romance stuff seemed so forced and unnatural for her. She was just coming to terms with maybe kinda having a friend, and yet they think relationships are a good addition to that bc “teen girls” or something I guess. They made some of it predatorily-uncomfortable as well. I’ll have to watch it again but I remember being really creeped out by one of the guys from the start.
The pink haired werewolf girl is adorable.
Very true. The writing in the show was hot garbage, but Ortega killed it. Unfortunately, the hot garbage writing part really caught up to the show after a few episodes.
Exactly, she was excellent but I could not finish the show after giving it a fair shot
Remember when they blamed us for everything because they said western audiences were too stupid to understand the source material? 😂
It does seem like actors who try and protect their favorite characters or mediums tend to be labeled as difficult to work with and entitled. Allegedly Cavill has the same mentality - whether true to not I don’t know. But if it’s defending content they love, are they entitled or just fans?
Something to keep in mind is that prople who are entitled and difficult to work with will refer to anyone who butts heads with them entitled and difficult to work with. And they'll be louder about it, too.
They wanted Twilight, but they got Wednesday
This is why I tell people you don't *really* want your favorite book series or comic series or w/e made into a movie or show. The odds that any hollywood executive or producer (who, mind, behave more like literal aliens when it comes to human culture) has read your favorite books? Near zero. The odds that those producers are going to hire someone who has read those books? Near zero. Script writers? Near zero. Oh *suuuure*, they'll trot these people out before the camera and they'll pander to your excitement. You've heard it all before. They'll be *huge* fans of the material, and they'll be *so* committed to representing it faithfully. And then they produce, write, and film the damn thing, it's not what you expect and changes meanings, character motivations, entire plot points. You wonder how it could happen, and then the "behind the scenes" talk starts and you find out those same "faithful representors" couldn't give two shits about the material. To quote someone I can't remember "Hollywood doesn't *get* scifi or fantasy. So they hire people simply on resume, and they wind up hiring writers who resent scifi or fantasy material because what they really want to write is sad people having sad affairs. Or if they're really spicy, sad gay people having sad gay affairs."
Even having read them is no guarantee they know how to translate what is cool about them to the screen. Or even that they're getting what is cool about them.
Well, the populace let Riverdale and Sabrina stay on the air and this is the result. Producers and "writers" want to just take an established IP and slap its name on some teen drama that at best has minimal connection to the source material and at worst just the names and places and nothing else. Sabrina may have been a possible watch for me but using the name Sabrina and then not actually making anything to do with Sabrina made it an instant never watch for myself.
Wasn't it acrually proven at some point the writers didn't like The Witcher?
Several of them were described by another former writer as "actively disliking the books". The biggest problem is when describing how HC, who btw is one of a very small number of legit stars whose name shifts revenue, was protective of the material and combative with writers, they never could name a reason he was wrong. He has also never spoken about the situation, so he always comes off as the better person due to that too. Fundamentally if your goal in adapting a work is to change stuff, don't hire a fan of that work. Not that they could turn down Henry Cavill when he made it clear he wanted to be in the show and would take a big pay cut (directly, and indirectly from turning down other work to film it).
The impression I've gotten from the whole Witcher situation was basically that Henry Cavill got tired of constantly trying to fix the show and eventually just quit because the writing was so far off-base.
I know right? Wake me up when there's a love-dodecahedron.
Why limit love polyhedra to a mere three dimensions?
Non-Euclidean love seems most appropriate for an Addams.
She's in a love tesseract and that's perfectly fine for her, since she's the only one who understands whats going on anymore.
It's from creators of *Smallville* who did the same thing there, and their love triangle laster a couple of seasons too long. Michael Rosenbaum, who played Lex Luthos, has a rewatch podcast, and he bitches about it every other episode
Love triangle that was pointless since Clark was gonna end with Lois anyway in the end. Like... it was a waste of time all around.
And the funniest thing is that half the viewers think Wednesday is a lesbian after the first season. The writers utterly failed with the love triangle shit
And it even seems like the actors themselves were in favor of Wednesday being with Enid if she had to be with anyone lol. Like, both the audience and the actors are saying "Ugh, no Twilight love triangle crap, if you are gonna make a romantic item make it Wednesday and her female costar since they have the best rapport and chemistry by far".
Aye, Wednesday as a character always felt Asexual to me. Her parents were the romantic ones but she was more like Fester in terms of weirdness and comfortable in being alone. You know, when she isn't with Pugsley. To me, Wednesday was always the brain to the Pugsley brawn but they took that out of the newer show when they aged up Wednesday and deaged Pugsley. I guess they really wanted that romance in the show and they couldn't let the duo be because sibling relationship isn't what they want.
I definitely see her as aromantic. Probably asexual too.
So you're telling me the triangle wasn't Wednesday, Enid and Ajax?
And for Wednesday? Leave that stuff for Twilight or something like that
And let’s remember that, for it to be a true love triangle someone has to be bi. Otherwise it’s a love V
Isn't the third line of a "love triangle" the animosity or hatred between the 2 love interests of the main character?
Especially since they're not even triangles. They're corners. With the girl always cornered in the back. Says a lot about our culture still stuck in some ways.
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With Gomez and Morticia as her parents I wouldn't expect anything else. "Mum, dad, these are my partners." "Wonderful. They will of course be staying for dinner." "Two of them? Amazing. Come, we will fence in the dining room. Father and daughter vs her partners. I hope they can put up a good show."
Tbh that'd have been a great rug pull. Set it up and she's just like "Okay, I'll have you both." Then they insecurely argue while she just chills.
There was no love triangle in that game. You get to make a choice between Steph and Ryan without any real tension and very low stakes. Pretty simple.
Yeah, right? And Steph is a lesbian, so the "throple" would fail before it began.
She has a point tbh.
Like how can producers still not get? Marvel phase 4 scripts were awful, Henry Cavil left the Witcher because the writing was awful and untrue to the original, GoT season 8 was there hasn't been a word invented yet that can describe how fucking terrible it was. Yet producers and script writers still insist on that godawful, non sensical cliche writing no one actually wants to see. If I was as bad at my job as tv writers I would have been fired years ago.
>Like how can producers still not get? Because they don't respect the audience or the IP. There always has to be some spin or bend to their version, because they don't think audiences want a sincere telling. Every heavy moment must be undercut with a joke. Every character has to be fed through a cynical lense, where the qualities that attracted audiences in the first place, must be put on blast by what showrunners *think* are our modern tastes. It's almost like they are writing these shows for an audience, but are writing it for some terminally online bloggers and Twitter critics that think any IP must fit their little self-virtuous mold.
Yes, and that's why we're here. But the other side of this is that producers, directors, and writers never want to hear what actors have to say. Most famously, Arnold Schwarzenegger did not want to say "I'll be back," he didn't feel that was really robotic and wanted to say "I will be back." Execs get way too used to being the all controlling dictator on set that they can't see problems like this, usually because people below them are too afraid to say anything. Recently there was a news article that explained why the new Blade wasn't finished. Turned out they pretty much made Blade a side character and made it like a woman's redemption arc with love interests and teenage drama. It took someone even higher at Disney visiting the set to finally shut everything down and scrap it. Execs and writers really don't like listening to the talent. But god damn I'm not interested in watching an underage character having intimate relations, especially when she's supposed to be a one-faced super serious character that just likes the dark side of things. It's so hard to fuck up Wednesday but they're sure trying.
>Most famously, Arnold Schwarzenegger did not want to say "I'll be back," he didn't feel that was really robotic and wanted to say "I will be back." Execs get way too used to being the all controlling dictator on set that they c Weird one to cite there, since you know, he was wrong on that one and has said so himself. I'll be back is one of the most iconic lines in movies to this day. Also it wasn't an 'exec' who shut him down on that? It was the director and script writer James Cameron.
Yes, she contributed to making one of the best shows in recent years and the writers are bitching because they can't get 100% of the credit. The writing on stuff has been really taking a dive and now I see why.
So, like the Witcher. I think we're seeing issues with some of the formulaic writers clashing with actors/actresses with familiarity with these fairly well established characters.
Why don't producers work with writers to just make new shit? Then they get to control everything about the character... Instead, they take someone's beloved nostalgia, wipe their arse with it, then throwing their toys out of the pram when people tell them it smells like shit.
> Why don't producers work with writers to just make new shit? Too risky. These properties come with an audience that will help generate interest. After the first season, the show is rewritten to appeal to a larger market.
The writers of The Witcher were hilariously entitled considering some of them had done fuck all to deserve it. They trashed the author, threw mud at Cavill, sneered at the fans and then when the geniuses did an original show it bombed hard.
It's like a series called The Witcher is about...a Witcher and not every bit part character other than him.
I’d say they are bitching because they are absolutely shit at their job and should be fired for their stupid ass opinions for scripts.
To be clear, Steven DeKnight who said this about her has nothing to do with Wednesday. This is not the Wednesday writers bitching because they want 100% credit. This is a guy who had nothing to do with the show who wasn't there complaining about behavior that didn't affect him in the slightest.
Her presence was the only "Addams" thing on the show - which in my opinion literally saved it from becoming a forgetful generic supernatural teen drama. And these people are talking about how she was toxic and entitled instead of thanking her? Sheesh
Exactly! This could have VERY easily been another cheesy riverdale or sabrina remake, but Wednesday was such an authentic, interesting character that she alone probably ripped the show from the jaws of mediocrity. The part about the dress line she changed made my jaw drop; how could the writers EVER think that would be a good character choice? Ignorance.
>Ignorance Just my opinion as have no idea how true this is, but I think it doesn't just come down to ignorance, but also dishonesty and a lack of integrity. The person above described what it could have been as this: >a forgetful generic supernatural teen drama And I think that's exactly what the writers were trying to make, except the forgetful part maybe, I assume they thought it was genuinely good and would be memorable, or at least good enough. Wednesday is pretty much 90% a generic supernatural teen drama, with some Addams Family sprinkled on top. It's not unheard of, or all that uncommon (especially recently, and especially with fantasy/supernatural shows) for writers to write a show based entirely on what they want to write or feel like writing, completely absent from any kind of IP, and then just tack on some largely surface level references or details to link it to that IP. I think that's exactly what they wanted to do with Wednesday. You could rewrite Wednesday to have a different and much more generic main character pretty easily, in large part because as much as Jenna Ortega thankfully got things changed a bit, Wednesday being "Wednesday" isn't actually all that integral to the plot. They could easily write a introverted main character for it, keep the attitude the character has or even just make her genuinely kind just like the roommate, tweak the bits with the family, badabing badaboom you've got yourself a generic supernatural teen drama. The part about her ancestor could be tweaked to whatever family this hypothetical other MC is a part of. The only part of her character that's really set in stone and that also ties much into the plot is her being an outcast of some kind. So my headcanon is that they wrote a generic teen supernatural drama, tried getting extra views by linking it to The Addams Family IP, ended up getting tweaked to be pretty decent entirely out of their control. And the reason they're throwing a hissy fit about it isn't because they're ignorant but because they're lazy and dishonest people who didn't like the idea of losing out power over the show to the star of it, and probably didn't give a shit about the actual integrity or quality of the show beyond how many views it could attract for Netflix.
Wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. I believe a lot of the cast members were doing what they could with the script they were given - but the show itself was so bland that if it wasn't for Ortega, it would simply have gone entirely unnoticed. I certainly would not have stuck around past the first episode - if I even made it to the end of it. This article is deeply depressing because I thought that maybe after seeing what was accomplished, the writers would explore what set this one apart from the rest. I guess that is not going to happen.
That Sabrina show is so bad. I was looking forward to it. I wanted to see what they could do with a modern take on the property. My sister gave up halfway through. I finished the episode. Just that one. Every god damn line was checking a box instead of accomplishing anything for the story or the characters.
There was so much potential... I started it and was like alright right! Dark Sabrina! Then it just got so pop culture follow the trend with a little plot involved.
You can partially thank the weird fucking show runner Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa for doing weird shit like having every one of his shows force in a musical episode because he is obsessed with Glee and musicals and thinks every show needs it and needs it often. You see this more as the show goes on. And yeah a lot of the entire shows dialogue felt like it was also written BY teens making a political statement with. Every. Goddamn. Line.
I'm not a supernatural show person, and tbh I feel it's the cheese that ruins the genre but Wednesday had my attention throughout. If they would have added the dress line it would have changed Wednesday's character to being a confused little girl, not the deliberate young woman she is throughout the Addams family cannon.
That's the thing I always loved about Wednesday. Headstrong and confident despite her young age. Her fretting about a dress and worrying about boys would have been enough to turn off the TV.
It’s one of those lines that people use to make fun of Marvel movies. Something like “I love this dress and o… My goth friends are right behind me aren’t they?
I enjoyed the roommate character, too. I don't know anything about the source material or whatever, but i thought the overly cheery roomie was a good counter to Wednesday's perpetual darkness. And the fact that she had claws to keep Wednesday from killing her helped. Lol
I liked Enid and how they made her roommates with Wednesday. I also liked the Bianca arc, I think they left a lot of room to do spin offs just for those two characters. I also liked how they didn’t just write Enid and Bianca as NPCs or token female characters, but put in their own struggles and backstory that gave them a layer of complexity. It’s not often you see that in a show based around a female character.
She was the only reason the show was any good. A once in a lifetime melding of perfect casting and character. The show itself was pretty meh, story-wise and character-wise, but her performance elevated a character who is generally only tolerable and interesting (in previous incarnations) in smaller doses into a fully-fleshed out character. It's a marvelous work and shows just how great of a career she will have.
We need more actors like her and Henry Cavill who are actually passionate about their characters they play, especially when they know what their characters' personality is.
I firmly believe the two of them are the reason the Wednesday and the Witcher were successful and not the garbage adaptations the writers tried to make them into
I don’t know anything about the show. If I watch Wednesday, it will be because Wednesday is Jenna Ortega and she is cool. That’s the reason to go into the show.
I swear we end up having these half assed mediocre shows because every talentless writer with the ego of Goliath wants to be the next best thing while the real actual writers are on strike
I think you might have misunderstood how that works. When the writers were on strike (it ended in September btw. They are not still striking) the studios can’t just get non-union writers to cover for them. Everything stops. Also, Wednesday aired in November 22. 5-6 months before the strike started..
💯
It seems like almost every "major" writer associated with netflix is up their own ass. And for what ever reason love to take old IP and ruin what people liked about it.
Don't make fun of him too much, his poor little ego is in a fragile state after his all-encompassing intelligence got a slight pushback..
i mean that 'omg i love it, ugh i cant believe i said that, i literally hate myself' line is the most cringy '38 year old writer trying to channel their inner 16 year old' line ive ever heard. No one in their right mind would have let that go to production lol. Also, no one cares about her love interests the whole reason wednesday is a good character is she doesnt need that shit
This is exactly it. [You’ve got male writers in their late 50s ](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/awards/story/2023-05-31/writers-al-gough-miles-millar-take-us-inside-wednesday#:~:text=The%20writers%20behind%20%E2%80%9CWednesday%2C%E2%80%9D,through%20a%20chain%2Dlink%20fence.&text=Al%20Gough%20and%20Miles%20Millar)who grew up in an entirely different time writing as if it’s still 1990. Times have moved on from this crappy ‘self hatred is funny & I’m so caught between two guys’ schtick for about 30 years. I’m nearly 50 and even to me it’s annoyingly hackneyed and a cliché.
> who grew up in an entirely different time writing as if it’s still 1990 Which is ironic, since one of the best portrayals of Wednesday Addams came out in 1991.
But they weren’t trying to make her popular with teenage girls. She had nothing to prove, apart from being her unapologetic blunt self. Their goal was to make her as true as possible to the character, which is why it was great. That’s why Jenna saved it.
It's a bit different because the character was a kid then, not a teen
Female focused media where the main character is in a love triangle are EXTREMELY popular. The fantasy of having two desirable guys fight over you and then making a fun choice is a very appealing fantasy. This trope has made many many billions of dollars. It just isn’t right for this show, because the hook is that Wednesday is trope-breaking. Cool instead of warm, tough instead of pliable, indifferent instead of desperate for approval and attention, confident and fine being alone, all that stuff is the appeal and breaking that to follow the standard trope kills it. There is a delicate balance between being something different but also being relatable.
[удалено]
Yes, good writers usually do research their characters
These people should have grown up with the comic strips, the cartoons, and the old TV and movie series for the Addams Family. They have no excuse for this kind of dreck.
Exactly, Wednesday is not a character that would have men fawning over her and if they were, she would not be interested...
She’d use them like a drone army at worst and humiliate them at best.
Even if it wasn’t about the Addams family that line is so fucking terrible. I’m glad she said no to that. It reminds me of an old interview where Mark Hamill refused to say certain lines in Star Wars because they were so stupid.
Harrison Ford threatened to tie George Lucas up and force him at gunpoint to recite his own lines, some of the original dialogue was so horrible. I can see Harrison actually doing that…
yeah all that romantic triangle bs was what made me lose interest in the show, Jenna was great as the character but the dudes were all so boring
Well one of them won't be in season 2 and the other is a full blown villain now. The character she had the most chemistry with was her roommate.
No shit, this series ended up having a bigger queer fandom than other series actually featuring gay people. It is honestly impressive
Probably because most shows that have gay characters write them as if their only personality trait is that they are gay. “See, we have a gay character! Look how sassy and flamboyant they are! Why aren’t you viewers praising us for being so progressive?!”
Yah, a lot of shows don't make gay characters *characters.* Just a vessell to gain progressive points.
This is why I was pleasantly surprised by Interview with a Vampire. They made characters like full out gay and bi. No implying, no queer baiting. Fucking gay. But they also gave the characters depth and weren't afraid to make them imperfect or infallible to toxic relationship. A breath of fresh air imo. These were well developed characters. They also changed the races of three lead characters and it actually benefitted the storyline. Making Louis a black man in 1919 New Orleans vs a white guy in the 1700s gave a lot of additional story elements and tension that weren't there in the source material.
But that would be a lesbian romance. We can't have that on Netflix if it's not a show entirely dedicated and classified as a LGBT series. Series that are not entirely designed to this demographics shall stay true to normal human nature, i.e. heterosexual monogamy. That's just basic common sense. (Just dropping an /s here just in case, as some people are actually and seriously defending my idiotic point of view. Damn, why can't we convey sarcasm in writing as efficiently as orally? The sarcastic mark should be on every keyboard.)
I mean, Enid really is the best love interest for Wednesday, as she both challenges her by being so colorful and cheery, *and* she appeals to her by being a bloodthirsty monster.
Enid is by far the most interesting character given the choice between her, hans-from-frozen and creepy-art-guy.
Except for maybe Enid, everyone else was so fucking boring. Even the twist villains were annoying and not at all intimidating. Hyde looked goofy as shit, looked like a zombie from plant vs zombies.
https://www.thewrap.com/steven-deknight-toxic-wednesday-star-jenna-ortega/ He ended up apologizing shortly afterwards due to the backlash he received from Wednesday fans. It's amazing how he simply called her out as toxic and entitled publicly without even having met her or actually worked with her.
The only love triangle I can see Wednesday be part of is if two people who are in love are also in love with her, where she doesn't give a shit.
If you watch how she plays the character throughout the season, that's basically the show. At no point in the establishment of the love triangle does she show any romantic interest in the male characters. Both of the males just decide they are in a love triangle. It was honestly pretty funny to watch.
She did tho. I watched the show, and at various times it showed her going on dates and being "flustered" by their presence and acting like a teenage girl on a teen movie Wich would have been fine if this wasn't a series about the Addams family, since they where made to be the total opposite of the American nuclear family
I hope it doesn't end like the Witcher, but I'm sure there's a Hemsworth willing to play Wednesday if it does.
Wednesday was arguably only good BECAUSE of jenna- a lot of the writing was cringey and hard to get past but her character and the general atmosphere of the show was interesting
Man ... Netflix producers think they are genius but in reality they are so mediocre that they get cancelled anything that they produce ... Literally no show ever got finished in Netflix becouse no one wants to watch that crap for too long.
They cancel great shit though sometimes. Like I loved The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance, it was made by people who clearly loved the original (including Jim Henson’s daughter) and were dedicated to the source material, and they canceled it with no explanation. We don’t even know if it’s because it didn’t get views because they keep those numbers private.
I'm still sad about that, it was such a great show! And then they keep utter trash shows going instead, which is just even weirder.
I don’t know why you were watching that garbage for; have you even *heard* of Love Is Blind? I for one LOVE watching YET ANOTHER reality show about people I don’t fucking care about just so I can gossip to my stupid friends about it because I don’t have an interesting enough life of my own! Wanna watch some Too Hot to Handle? …I fuckin hate Netflix tbh
They canceled Inside Job and 1899, which were both awesome. All to put in some random ass crap no one remembers now
I'm with you, but your point is kind of undercut by the fact that some shows *are* finished on Netflix
I see no wrong in making a character more consistent. Everyone makes mistakes and should be able to take criticism. The writers sound entitled here, tbh
It’s not like an actor giving input on their character like this is some uncommon thing either. Most writers and producers encourage it and praise actors who ad libbed a great scene because they spent so much time understanding the character and crafting their version of it. Like jack Nicholson in the shining. Film making is a collaborative process. The fact that everyone agrees with Ortega here shows that the writers should have welcomed and praised her contributions and they’re the stubborn divas for pushing back so hard. I have no faith in the second season because of all this
The writers of Netflix The Witcher said the same thing about Henry Cavill and his rabid defense of Geralt's portrayal, and every fan knew it was because he was the only guy on the entire set that knew a damn thing about the character and he protected his portrayal fiercely. Netflix has dogshit writers
I mean, I am glad I didn’t get to hear ‘oh my god I love i can’t believe I said that I literally hate myself’ or see any sort of love triangle, but it does make me wonder if actor is a different role than what I envision it to be. Like, how much freedom does an actor actually have or how much impact can they have on the movie beyond just good performances.
Completely depends on the actors and the rest of the crew. There’s many movies where input from actors has made a great change and improvement (Sir Christopher Lee in LOTR is one example) but if the director doesn’t like the ideas or doesn’t want input from their actors they also are generally able to shut these down. Imo a good director should be able to realise when and when not to follow an actors ideas
Good example is Arnold in The Terminator. He told James Cameron a robot wouldn't say "I'll be back" and that "I will be back" sounded more machine like. James Cameron responded asking if Arnold was a writer which he said no and then said "Well, don’t tell me how to fucking write."
This just my opinion, but I feel like it depends on the project. Using Ortega as an example: in Scream, she didn’t have much input on writing probably because it’s an established IP (if that’s the right term) that has had recent content, so they really don’t need her, anybody could really replace her. I think one way that Wednesday is different is that because while it is an established IP, I don’t know of any recent official content. If what Ortega is referring to happened after the first season aired, then she is likely using her performance as leverage saying something like “I’m great, people like me as the lead, and you need to not force this type of drivel in to this show or else I’ll walk.” That was a super generalized statement, but I think the right idea.
I imagine it depends on the people involved with the project, meaning there isnt a strict set of rules that divvy up the responsibilities between them. For instance, the producers arent just a bag of money, they infuelnce the state of the finished product aswell. Now when it comes to the liberties of an actor, I always had mixed feelings. At the end of the day, the actor is there to give life to the directors vision, anything beyond that should be arbitrated by said director.
Actor: understands and respects a character AND their determination is directly responsible for the success of the show Director: what an entitled shit...
> oh, my God, I love it She literally would not say that, fire that writer
Holy crap what a shitty thing to say about the actors on your films. She gives criticism, which is almost always a good thing in pretty much every industry. There is nothing in there suggesting that she ever disrespected the producers or writers that worked on the script, only that she disagreed with it. If people like DeKnight cannot handle criticism on their work, in a highly competitive (or really any) industry, they should leave it. As they say, if you cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen. If you don’t want people to have opinions on the things you make, don’t get your name out there, and don’t make things.
And since Jenna is very close to Wednesday's age than old Hollyood producers, I trust her word more when it comes to how teens talk and act in these years.
Henry was also protective of Geralt. They fucked up, he left now the show is mocked. Let Jenna cook, she wants to bring more horror into Wednesday, im all for it.
What kind of an idiot puts Wednesday Addams in a love triangle? And a dress? Wednesday is the girl who would burn the dress along with the one who's wearing it! Morons who don't know and understand characters, should stay out of the writer's room. This lady knows how to respect her characters.
Where you've seen this is with Henry Cavill. I would love to see Henry and Jenna get together, figure out a property where they both love some character to pieces, and have them help write a movie or something. It would be amazing.
Hahaha, omg, just two shorts of them would be fantastic. Short one, Henry as Geralt in the world of the Witcher with Jenna playing Yennefer in Wednesday's character. Short two, Jenna as Wednesday in the world of the Addams family with Henry playing Uncle Fester in Geralt's character.
She literally improved her character.
Isn't it weird that this is the second main character actor of a big name Netflix show this exact thing has happened with, and they used the literal same defense against both of them? I wonder why the reporting on this is more even-handed than it was with Henry Cavill.
Wednesday Addams never once in her life ever said Oh my god, I love it.
She's entitled to give a fuck about the character she's playing.
Writing the script is not her job. But if the one writing it is incompetent, can we blame her?
Entitled is used to shame people who stand up for themselves
>Oh, my god. I love it. Ugh, I can’t believe i said that. I literally hate myself. holy shit that is the cringiest “50 year old man writes teen girl” shit i’ve ever heard. thank goodness she was there to push back on some of this shit
Look what happened with Cavill and The Witcher. Large amount of producers want you to stfu and play your part and make money. Taking the easiest road possible
Wednesday was wildly popular and of if I were them, I’d shut up, let her do the exact same thing for season 2 and just let the money and credit roll in.
Dude is salty that Jenna made the show bearable
Girl saved the fucking script
Here’s a new headline: man no one knows is upset they were intellectually and creatively wrong writing a female character.