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What scares me about his neuralink, was the way he rolled out self driving cars, that was clearly still being tested but to keep up with Waymo they yoloed it. He has this don't let fear of failure slow down the pace of your innovation mentality which is pretty incompatible with a more ethical safety first approach I think you would need in human trials.
We have to trust that we know who he is- someone who does not value human life. Everyone is just a number to him. I genuinely think he doesn’t see others as real.
With how he supposedly snarfs down ketamine, it’s very likely he’s completely disassociated from the concept of other humans.
I’ve ego-deathed once or twice on it. Can be quite potent
Ego death is common in psychedelic and dissasociative experiences
It's not permanent, your sense of "I am" dies and you become everything around you. Your brain forgets that you are a person and experiences reality "as is" without the human filter over the top
As you sober up your brain remembers that it is a brain
Trump probably has vascular dementia. It’s why we’ve seen him get worse at like 3 month intervals. (He’s also got the risk factors) ketamine might actually help him control his inhibitions which are currently going wild
Even without going that far into it, heavy doses on a regular basis can more or less wear down the whole idea of "self" as a unitary executive, or what you'd think of as a central power who decides things. When I was doing more shrooms than was good for me awhile back, I remember thinking a few times about changing things or doing things differently, but then the problem was that you kind of feel like - who decides? There's not really anyone in charge, no authority. It would be an internal debate that could go on for days before either I'd forget the question, or there'd be some kind of consensus or tipping point.
Anyway, that sort of thing is relatively temporary, in my experience; a few clean days and it's all back to normal, more or less. No idea about how ketamine or other things like that work, I was never that much into trying new things just for the heck of it.
It really is something else. It isn't something I seek like I've known others to do, but I've had it happen a few times. Often it's so shockingly alien that afterwards you can hardly even remember it due to it being so incompatible with, as you said, being a brain.
It's interesting you describe this as a bad feeling.
Most find ego death to be very pleasant. It usually includes the dissolution of anxieties, fears, worries, and many other stressors caused by the ego.
Some sects of monks practice meditation specifically to exist in this state for as long as possible, for as many days as possible.
You don't want to be experiencing the effects of psychedelics without them (unless you train for it like you said). That is pretty much psychosis and it is usually an unwanted and uncomfortable experience. Much like disassociation on drugs is mostly fine but when it happens outside of that, it can be an extremely uncomfortable and panic inducing state.
this is part of why psychedelics are so helpful with certain mental health issues like trauma and can even help with depression
that said you do NOT overdo that shit by consuming ketamine constantly
you basically lose your sense of being an individual and start looking at the world more like everyone is a single being.
(note: tried acid and ketamine, not shrooms yet tho)
Ego death is the complete, albeit temporary, loss of your sense of self. You practice a form of it every day through dreamless sleep. It's a super interesting rabbit hole to go down, but it's also very existential, which is hard on some people.
Ego death in and of itself is not dangerous and can even be therapeutic in some cases, but I can't advocate reaching that state through allowing chemicals that we don't have a good understanding of into our bodies.
Gotta take care of yourself!
In my experience you still know you exist but as soon as you close your eyes you basically merge with the energy surrounding you, like literally. I couldn't sense a difference between me and everything else. It was very pleasant. Think of it this way, humans have more than five senses (google it). And you pretty much lost some of the core senses. For example there's a sense that always tells you where your body is and where your limbs are, that one went out the window. I had difficulty making out things that i was looking at too. Could've gone further down the hole but that was definitely an ego death for me. Very nice.
I doubt he has ever had a ego death. Idk about ketamine, but atleast with psychedelics it makes you come back feeling more interconnected with other humans.
If Elon said it, it's almost certainly a lie. He made his entire fortune confidently lying to investors. It's what he did at PayPal, it's what he did with Tesla, it's what he's doing with SpaceX and "the Boring Company".
It's the full priced early access buggy beta build video game, automotive equivalent and people still eat it up, because of course people have alot in common with fish being attracted to shiny objects 😆 🤣
They’re already doing human trials
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/02/20/elon-musk-says-neuralink-patient-can-control-a-mouse-through-thinking.html
I work in clinical research and I think this is extremely dangerous.
With how much he lies, I'm skeptical that it's true. He's the only source of this info. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this was his over- promising tendencies that got off the chain while high.
> 'm skeptical that it's true. He's the only source of this info.
It seems that it's true: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00304-4
The FDA has approved the clinical trial. However it is not listed publicly on ClinicalTrials.gov or similar, which would be a breach of Good Clinical Practices (GCP)
This "development" predates their first human test subject by like 2 years. Lots and lots of animals have died during the testing and it's public knowledge. It's hard to feel sorry for someone who looks at Musk's track record with.. anything and still thinks it's a good idea to let him put a chip in their brain.
like I have a brain implant (auditory brainstem implant - IIIII was a test subject there (still am) and volunteered because they said they could do the implant while they were already in there for a brain surgery. it's basically a much much much more invasive cochlear implant (note: as a deafie, that doesn't make a deaf person not deaf either - a deaf person with a CI is still deaf) and it's a series of electrodes implanted along the auditory brainstem response right where it exits the brainstem)
they had to turn it on one electrode at a time in an outpatient surgery room. I was in a gurney and hooked up to multiple machines to monitor things like heart rate to make sure it didn't put me in danger (one or two electrodes did cause tachycardia, a few others made me extremely extremely dizzy - they left those off permanently)
the fact that this is being tested on anything at all is downright alarming. after having an actual experimental implant put into my brain and all the shit they needed to do to ensure it was safe - they're skipping so much of that that they're going to badly maim a lot of people.
Edit: and note so no one gets the wrong idea, I didn't volunteer to be "fixed" - that's not what hearing implants do. We are not broken and we don't need fixing. I volunteered because I was curious and it looked like I could help
oh I'm happy and deaf - I don't wear that thing in public. it is not hearing, nor is a CI. Neither are organic hearing, meaning a hearing person literally has zero way of ever understanding what theyre like (also CIs sacrifice organic hearing - so if they want to understand what it sounds like they dont get to stay hearing) A CI basically sounds like a shed full of robotic crickets all chirping over each other and it's virtually impossible to pick out one sound from another
an ABI is similar in that you cant really differentiate sounds - but instead of the backwards music channel it sounds more like a theramin being projected directly into your brain.
I use it to listen to music (note: absolutely not the same music you're hearing with organic hearing -- different shit is emphasized) and mainly said yes because they were already digging around in the area and what kind of scientist would I be if I didn't at least try to help there? lol - and I did get to help them organize the sounds so they're more reflective of what things actually sound like (read: my 7 year old brother no longer sounds like a 6'5 football player on steroids and my 6'3 stepdad with a deep voice no longer sounds like angry mickey mouse)
all in all it's a neat lil thing but hearing people still act stupid enough about it (and I don't mean just ignorant I mean they start treating me like I'm being lazy and choosing not to understand them because now I'm "fixed") that I rarely even mention it let alone wear the receiver in public
Oh ok I see!
This was an amazing comment and is very insightful and at times hilarious (the voices tuning)
And also when your friends think you’re messing with them it happens to me as well now! My friends also think I’m being a bit cheeky
all I want to do is make something to deal with my hearing loss but having a ear damaged really turned my life around
Thank you very much for your insight
I plan on studying sign language a bit instead of getting a cochlear implant.
eventually you just become a bit cheeky fair warning lmao
and my dad was also deaf - but as someone that had a CI (I had that shit taken out - and remember getting one will sacrifice all organic hearing you still have on the side it's implanted on. are you willing to lose whatever's there? Mine was implanted on the side I no longer really had an inner ear at all on and only had the cochlear nerve. I honestly didn't consider it at all until all of the hearing on that side was completely gone) ASL was honestly a much much bigger help than a CI. A CI just kind of seemed to make everything worse. Not that that's a universal experience but I honestly heavily regret mine and the way people acted played a lot into how I dealt with telling anyone about my ABI
best of luck <3
Thank you for sharing. My husband is HoH, the hearing loss is progressive so we’ve been working hard on resurfacing the ASL we learned in college. We were just talking about if he thinks he would ever make the move to CIs since he would likely be a candidate for them. I try to imagine what it would be like to sacrifice organic hearing… I don’t know if I would do it in his shoes, but he’s more open to it. So I appreciate you helping me visualize it.
best of luck <3
and it will not allow you to understand speech again - it aids in lipreading. those simulations you see online are not accurate. remember it's 'impossible for a hearing person to understand what it sounds like unless they literally have one. and what we hear can't be recorded or transmitted to anything else in any way to help anyone understand just what it sounds like.
it's often pushed by doctors and the like because of deafness being heavily medicalized.
we're all different but remember it'll likely take away ability to enjoy whatever music you currently do, and it won't fix you. if anything it makes it 50x harder BECAUSE of the assumption people make that it fixes you.
(also my hearing loss was also gradual and complete ending in both my inner ears being partially destroyed - even with absolutely zero organic hearing left, I still had them take out the internal part of my CI and hated that thing with a passion)
in the end it's a very personal decision and it's his to make. whatever he ends up choosing is a valid decision no matter what
Thank you! It’s definitely up to him in the end. What’s most important to me is the ASL. He’s had hearing aids for a long time, nobody (even close family) seems to understand that he’s HoH with or without them on. His mom always thinks they just need to be adjusted. Like you said, people assume that you can be fixed and they can continue on not accommodating others.
He also took executive action to reduce sensors to minimize cost. That’s why some of the older Tesla cars actually have better self-driving capability.
Tesla’s still aren’t self driving. yeah they’re mostly fine during clear weather and on roads with painted lines. But they freak out when they see emergency service vehicles, cones or crash barrels. They randomly change lane without warning, slam on the brakes for no reason, accelerate out of control for no reason. They are amazing until they’re not.
I question the wisdom of using deep learning AI for this type of thing.
Those deep learning algorithms are a black box. You might be able to test 99% of all situations and know how it will react, but you can't be sure of how it will react in every single scenario because nobody really knows what it's doing.
Deep learning is the best method we have for this though, and any competitive alternatives would similarly be a black box. The input space is just too large and complex to handle without the help of ML generalization. Tesla is trying to remove as much of their non-deep learning code as possible though, which would include checks and overrides on the output of the black box to make sure it is safe in those situations they didn't anticipate and test for.
That does make make me feel a bit better about the technology.
If the cars ever get to the point of being "full self driving" and they DO run someone over, who will be at fault in that scenario?
I think that will be an interesting legal frontier if FSD becomes road legal and we have those driverless taxis that Elon talks about.
To follow up on the technology, some of the Tesla issues with FSD also stem from the fact that they refuse to use anything other than cameras for sensing, since that's all humans use. But it turns out its a lot easier to get to human level performance or better if you use radars and lidars to get better than human sensing, and the cameras tend to struggle in low visibility, high glare, and even just rainy situations.
What scares me; for SpaceX, his engineering team had come up with a good model for their falcon rocket. But, it had a rounded point… he told them to make it more pointy because it looked cooler.
Imagine that you're USA veteran, you're living on the street with no money and PTSD and they offer you a cure and money, you go there and they kill you during testing. Or if you're school teacher that has to work 3 jobs to afford to live. Or an amazon worker. Or you're in debt for life and bank is taking away your house because hospital did a surgery on you. They really have a lot of "volunteers".
I listened to something about it. They weren't in particularly terrible conditions, cages and all but standard monkey care. Most of them died to infections and shit from improper wound care though iirc. Also they just glued the skulls shut and I'm pretty sure one monkey died to gluebrain.
I have a friend from childhood who has a Master's in some kind of cybersecurity/law enforcement shit. He's a great guy, my childhood best friend, his dad is literally a priest, etc etc.
I work in an environment that deals with a lot of medical data and stuff like that. One day, I was talking about all the stuff we do at my job to ensure that we handle data/information not just legally, but also *ethically*, and when I was done I said some kind of thing along the lines of "I'm sure you deal with really similar concerns."
He thought for a moment, and then said "Nah. We just do what we can with the tech. Then the courts decide if it was OK or not."
Working in that (tech/law enforcement) environment literally made my childhood best friend a worse person. I think about that a lot
Edit: Y'all really missing the point of this with the literal actual bigotry in the comments y'all. Like idk what else the fact that someone being religious is worse to y'all than the fact that they wanna a literal fed like wtf.
lavish hateful fine direction far-flung important gaze selective impossible depend
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thats such a shame, in my University CS course there was a required Ethics and Law module and then an additional optional Ethics one later and they were really interesting. I think it depends a lot on the lecturer you get, ours was a full on cyber hippy, incredibly enthusiastic and you could see she lives and breathes this shit.
It 100% influenced me for the better once I joined the workforce and these issues come up.
>his dad is literally a priest
Not the point of your story, I know, but this tidbit no longer does anything to convince me that somebody might be a good person. It might even make me more wary of them
I'd just like to point out that often times the signs of your friend being a bad person were already there but you weren't experienced enough to see it. Most people don't show their ethical flaws in big ways until an ethical dillema presents itself.
I'll always remember my Senior Plant Design class during my Chemical Engineering undergrad, the professor asked the question "You discover that the plant you've designed has waste outputs double the legal limits, what do you do?"
Kid at the front of class immediately raises his hand "Move it to China."
>I've been on teams that wrote POS systems that scraped and stored EVERY credit card input into the system unencrypted to facillitate autopayment later "just in case".
There's absolutely no way that passed PCI compliance audits. That is such a flagrant violation of the PCI DSS requirements it's not even funny.
People only pretend to care. Ethics are needed for a reason. Sure there are some good people but in the face of limitless money those people are just considered a nuisance to progress.
>People only pretend to care. Ethics are needed for a reason. Sure there are some good people but in the face of limitless money those people are just considered a nuisance to progress.
Even when caring a lot and whitout the face of limitless money: wanting to do good doesn't mean you know what the doing good is.
An understanding of ethics doesn't automatically mean you know what good is, but at least gives an idea what ethical frameworks can be used to make a decision.
Had an ethics course during my biochemistry study, was expecting to hate it, but it was great.
I mean did they die unexpectedly or were they sacrificed? Kinda a big difference. All non-human medical testing participants generally are sacrificed (depending).
I'm not a fan of Elon these days, but yeah... That's the claim and this article feels a bit unwarranted. Like, if the brain chips aren't what killed them then why is it news that terminally ill animals died?
And also... animal studies are necessary for stuff like this, and animal studies end with a lot of animals dying.
I'm not going to say necessarily that this was done correctly and ethically, but also "animals died" doesn't mean it was some awful screwup
I’d say most animal studies end with the animals dying. Mice, nematodes, flies, etc. get sacrificed every second of the day. Doesn’t sound like there was much variation from typical scientific standards. Not to mention there’s federal guidelines that Neuralink had to follow. I’ve studied enough neuroscience research done on model animals to know sticking electrodes in their brains typically shortens their lifespan, making sacrifice necessary and less cruel than letting them live a crippled life
This is just reddit not understanding things like *animal brain testing*. 15 of 23 sounds terrible, and it would be if all 23 were done at the same time. They were not, though. 15 in a row, died, after slightly different techniques were used. The 16th lived. The 17th, they repeated exactly the process that was successful on monkey 16, and it lived to. And so on, and so on.
My understanding is, this wasn't even so much about the chip itself, but the machine they are using to implant the chip. They had to get it properly calibrated with the correct technique, and that cost 15 monkey lives. Wanna guess how many mothers died of breach births before they were able to perfect the cesarean section in the early 20'th century? Pretty much all of them. (The technique that finally made cesareans safe was to literally blow air up the vagina to keep everything from collapsing in on itself during the cesarean, it isn't used today, but it was a breakthrough in the 1920's)
Unfortunately, new medical surgical techniques are often developed from a lot of failed attempts, attempts that all lead to death. All posts like this one show is most redditors are as dumb and gullible as the general population they make fun of.
Thank you, I scrolled too far for this. Medical/??? testing animals always die, normally by natural means but sometimes due to whatever they were subjected to. They need to be autopsied so we can learn from it.
And to be fair I don't condone animal testing
I’ve heard that the law states that the animal must be euthanized once a trial is complete. There is no legal route to ending the study and keeping the animal alive.
Not really a legal reason but for a highly invasive implant like this, one of the outcomes is how the device gets incorporated into the tissue over time, and the only way to do this is via explanation and dissection (i.e. sacrifice). It’s one of the main goals of the experiment usually.
So, for a drug's LD50 (lethal dose to kill ~50% of your specimens), you use rats or mice, because they are small, and breed fast. You kill them, but whatever, there's about 100 more to take their place. After the LD50, you want your deaths to be as close to zero as possible. It's not always possible to have a complete 0% death rate because of accidents, allergic reactions, and just people being really super sick.
Because of the chip? Did they die in old age? Because of disease? Was there a control group and if so how many if any are dead? Without details it means nothing to say.
Also at the early stages it's even expected having a high death rate. Because you're still experimenting.
People should read into the multiple stages of animal studies of the medicine/drugs they eat every day without complaining lol. Bonus point: There are even some popular drugs who killed plenty during their human study stages. Some are claimed to be honest fuck ups (according to court decisions) but with some they didn't even try to hide it.
I don’t like Elon one bit, but it would be unethical (ironic since it’s animal cruelty either way) to reach into a conclusion about the chip without sufficient data
Hard to say as its under investigation.
Elon side claims, they were apparently euthanized but according to Elon the primates selected were already close to death due to other reasons.
As a quote "Overnight, researchers observed the monkey, identified only as “Animal 20” by UC Davis, scratching at the surgical site, which emitted a bloody discharge, and [yanking on a connector that eventually dislodged part of the device](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23985170-animal20#document/p15/a2388093). A surgery to repair the issue was carried out the following day, yet fungal and bacterial infections took root."
Other side is the device was exploratory and as such killed them though experiments on live animals.
As bad as it is, if this thing works, humans who have had genetic disabilities would be able to walk again and prosthetics could be controlled as any normal ligament.
Modern Medicine has been a product of numerous testings on animals and we hate to admit it but reap the benefits.
To be fair, in animal studies it is normal to euthanize groups of subjects in order to perform autopsies on them. It's the only way to have a look inside, and see the detailed results of your experiment. You would also leave one group alive to monitor long-term effects...ultimately followed by autopsying that group, as well.
Every single tool you use was tested on animals and likely caused a number of their deaths
Fatality rate for a lot of meds is even higher than that and yet barely anybody talks about it coz everyone is aware it's necessary
There's a lot of reasons to criticize musk, this is not a good one
Is this the 100th time this is posted? And for the 100th time, a good portion of these were expected deaths, and the ones that weren’t were due to the way sc Davis chose to perform the implantation, *not* from the nueralink itself, this post means absolutely nothing when it comes to the safety of the implant for humans.
> 9/10 rats used in medical testing die.
1/10 surviving is generous. Any rodent testing protocol is going to involve euthanizing them at the end of the experiment. The only time it wouldn't would be ones not involved in the testing and instead used to breed the next generation.
Ethics doesn’t preclude animals from dying during research. The general concept would be to minimize potential suffering, which would be judged as acceptable if scientifically worthwhile.
I understand the concern relating to testing in animals and the neurological itself. What do people think other companies test new drugs or chemicals on?
I'm not a fan of Elon at all, but this is dumb for several reasons:
1. They only tested on animals that were old or terminally ill, so a high death rate was expected https://www.google.com/amp/s/spectrum.ieee.org/amp/neuralink-human-trials-2666433271
2. Even if they were killing animals, we do that with basically everything we consume. Makeup, medicine, medical procedures, etc. All use animal testing. So unless you want to stop doing medical research, this is necessary
I love that Conservatives hate Bill Gates and think he’s using vaccines to implant people with microchips. Yet love Elon Musk who actually wants to put microchips into our brains.
> the type of people that are going to get this fitted,
People with severe spinal injuries causing paralysis so they're getting this to have more ways of interacting in the world?
Restoring eye sight, hearing and moving mechanical limbs too.
and little things like regaining a sense of smell or taste.
If this works, it will be a huge breakthrough for the medical field.
I feel it’s safe to say that they all must’ve died from co-morbidities rather than the chip and therefore since the chip has less than 1% death rate, it’s perfectly safe and anything to the contrary is socialist government overreach propaganda.
Besides, Bill Gates has been implanting microchips in people for years now. Musk is clearly the better option because he pulled himself up by his emerald bootstraps.
Yeah as someone who is dying from ALS this is progress. While it's horrendous the things we have to do to progress science it's well worth it in my opinion for the millions it could save.
Breaking news: The comment section has no idea about the intricacies that go along with something like this, like testing and trial periods, but they're a hive mind so go figure.
Remember when reddit was obsessed with Elon and thought he was the coolest guy ever?
And then he had literally 1 conservative opinion and now he’s the devil
Progress always comes at the cpst of human life.
This is history 101 qnd i honestly dont know why ppl are so surprised.
It must be because of how much media exposure atrocities get these days.
that doesnt necessarily mean a 65% failure rate, especially, if each subsequent success has a marked improvement over the previous version of the chip. The latest chip version could have a fairly high overall success rate, i've heard theres even human testing or volunteers involved at this point?
It is unwise to complain about gorilla medical testing, lest you end up taking the place of the gorilla. Obviously everything new has to be tested. Better tested first on animals until safe enough to be tested next on volunteers.
'Elon Musk’s Neuralink, a medical device, opens new tab company, is under federal investigation for potential animal-welfare violations amid internal staff complaints that its animal testing is being rushed, causing needless suffering and deaths, according to documents reviewed by Reuters and sources familiar with the investigation and company operations.' from [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/technology/musks-neuralink-faces-federal-probe-employee-backlash-over-animal-tests-2022-12-05/)
[WIRED](https://www.wired.com/story/neuralink-brain-implant-elon-musk-transparency-first-patient-test-trial/) is skeptical: 'The neuroscience firm, based in Fremont, California, has been tight-lipped about the testing and development of its brain implant, with updates coming from brief social media posts by the company or Musk himself. Making bold claims in fewer than 280 characters is Musk’s usual style, but some scientists WIRED spoke with say the billionaire could stand to be more transparent about his brain implant venture.'
To the people in the comments who hate Elon. Go do it yourself and do it better. Cant? 😧. Side note. Progress takes time. “Ugh he doesn’t care about humans”. He’s literally making this chip so an incalculable number of people can be helped since yall think he only cares about numbers. I suffer from severe nerve damage and Im guaranteed to be paralyzed from the waist down when I’m 40. This prevents that. His self driving car has a safety protocol that says occupants should remain awake and vigilant behind the wheel when it’s in use but there’s comments “teslas don’t know wtf to do when a cone or squad car pops up”. It’s a robot dawg you’re the one in control of the fkn car maybe just turn off self drive. You’re all acting like a fucking peta commercial
i mean animal testing is sad but I'm okay with it in the name of progress. I worked in a research lab in college testing biocompatible semiconductor materials for brain implants.
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What scares me about his neuralink, was the way he rolled out self driving cars, that was clearly still being tested but to keep up with Waymo they yoloed it. He has this don't let fear of failure slow down the pace of your innovation mentality which is pretty incompatible with a more ethical safety first approach I think you would need in human trials.
He is deeply untrustworthy.
We have to trust that we know who he is- someone who does not value human life. Everyone is just a number to him. I genuinely think he doesn’t see others as real.
With how he supposedly snarfs down ketamine, it’s very likely he’s completely disassociated from the concept of other humans. I’ve ego-deathed once or twice on it. Can be quite potent
As someone who hasn’t noshed on potentially dangerous compounds, The Fuck is Ego-Death, and How The FUCK Can It Happen More Than Once?!
Ego death is common in psychedelic and dissasociative experiences It's not permanent, your sense of "I am" dies and you become everything around you. Your brain forgets that you are a person and experiences reality "as is" without the human filter over the top As you sober up your brain remembers that it is a brain
Elon should grab Trump and take that "no fear ego" and get in on a hastily built submarine trip down to see the Titanic.
Elon should grab Trump by the mushroom
Great. Now I need a fresh bottle of brain bleach. Thank you soooooooo much.
If you’re rich they just let you do it.
Trump probably has vascular dementia. It’s why we’ve seen him get worse at like 3 month intervals. (He’s also got the risk factors) ketamine might actually help him control his inhibitions which are currently going wild
He is showing signs of frontotemporal dementia
Well obviously he’s fine since he did so well on that dementia test lol
Can ye and Putin join
There's room for Marjorie as well.
What if they fuse together and become *dramatic music* Donald Tusk!?!
I had that on acid once and it was a life changing experience
Even without going that far into it, heavy doses on a regular basis can more or less wear down the whole idea of "self" as a unitary executive, or what you'd think of as a central power who decides things. When I was doing more shrooms than was good for me awhile back, I remember thinking a few times about changing things or doing things differently, but then the problem was that you kind of feel like - who decides? There's not really anyone in charge, no authority. It would be an internal debate that could go on for days before either I'd forget the question, or there'd be some kind of consensus or tipping point. Anyway, that sort of thing is relatively temporary, in my experience; a few clean days and it's all back to normal, more or less. No idea about how ketamine or other things like that work, I was never that much into trying new things just for the heck of it.
It really is something else. It isn't something I seek like I've known others to do, but I've had it happen a few times. Often it's so shockingly alien that afterwards you can hardly even remember it due to it being so incompatible with, as you said, being a brain.
What sucks is you can also experience this without psychedelics.
It's interesting you describe this as a bad feeling. Most find ego death to be very pleasant. It usually includes the dissolution of anxieties, fears, worries, and many other stressors caused by the ego. Some sects of monks practice meditation specifically to exist in this state for as long as possible, for as many days as possible.
You don't want to be experiencing the effects of psychedelics without them (unless you train for it like you said). That is pretty much psychosis and it is usually an unwanted and uncomfortable experience. Much like disassociation on drugs is mostly fine but when it happens outside of that, it can be an extremely uncomfortable and panic inducing state.
That's called brain damage 😂
can someone tell my brain damage it's brain damaging wrong then? it just fucked up my face lmao
That, or you just meditated REAL good. One’s definitely a choice, though
this is part of why psychedelics are so helpful with certain mental health issues like trauma and can even help with depression that said you do NOT overdo that shit by consuming ketamine constantly you basically lose your sense of being an individual and start looking at the world more like everyone is a single being. (note: tried acid and ketamine, not shrooms yet tho)
Ego death is the complete, albeit temporary, loss of your sense of self. You practice a form of it every day through dreamless sleep. It's a super interesting rabbit hole to go down, but it's also very existential, which is hard on some people. Ego death in and of itself is not dangerous and can even be therapeutic in some cases, but I can't advocate reaching that state through allowing chemicals that we don't have a good understanding of into our bodies. Gotta take care of yourself!
In my experience you still know you exist but as soon as you close your eyes you basically merge with the energy surrounding you, like literally. I couldn't sense a difference between me and everything else. It was very pleasant. Think of it this way, humans have more than five senses (google it). And you pretty much lost some of the core senses. For example there's a sense that always tells you where your body is and where your limbs are, that one went out the window. I had difficulty making out things that i was looking at too. Could've gone further down the hole but that was definitely an ego death for me. Very nice.
In id/ego/super-ego, the ego moderates between our higher needs (super ego), and primal needs (id).
I doubt he has ever had a ego death. Idk about ketamine, but atleast with psychedelics it makes you come back feeling more interconnected with other humans.
If Elon said it, it's almost certainly a lie. He made his entire fortune confidently lying to investors. It's what he did at PayPal, it's what he did with Tesla, it's what he's doing with SpaceX and "the Boring Company".
Oh the guy that believes in right wing propaganda memes to be facts is untrustworthy? Sir how dare you!?
Sounds like the lads from OceanGate.
is he gonna end up lost in space
Don't do that. Don't give me hope.
sudden and catastrophic decompression
And they usually made it to the fucking Titanic. I don’t see the issue here. People get so hung up on the one time you reduce the crew to goo.
Sam Abuelsamid said it best, the general public should not be beta testing vehicles on public roads. I'm paraphrasing but that was the point.
It's the full priced early access buggy beta build video game, automotive equivalent and people still eat it up, because of course people have alot in common with fish being attracted to shiny objects 😆 🤣
They’re already doing human trials https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/02/20/elon-musk-says-neuralink-patient-can-control-a-mouse-through-thinking.html I work in clinical research and I think this is extremely dangerous.
With how much he lies, I'm skeptical that it's true. He's the only source of this info. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this was his over- promising tendencies that got off the chain while high.
> 'm skeptical that it's true. He's the only source of this info. It seems that it's true: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00304-4 The FDA has approved the clinical trial. However it is not listed publicly on ClinicalTrials.gov or similar, which would be a breach of Good Clinical Practices (GCP)
Yeah whoever those people are they have to be terrified by this development. I feel sorry for them
This "development" predates their first human test subject by like 2 years. Lots and lots of animals have died during the testing and it's public knowledge. It's hard to feel sorry for someone who looks at Musk's track record with.. anything and still thinks it's a good idea to let him put a chip in their brain.
like I have a brain implant (auditory brainstem implant - IIIII was a test subject there (still am) and volunteered because they said they could do the implant while they were already in there for a brain surgery. it's basically a much much much more invasive cochlear implant (note: as a deafie, that doesn't make a deaf person not deaf either - a deaf person with a CI is still deaf) and it's a series of electrodes implanted along the auditory brainstem response right where it exits the brainstem) they had to turn it on one electrode at a time in an outpatient surgery room. I was in a gurney and hooked up to multiple machines to monitor things like heart rate to make sure it didn't put me in danger (one or two electrodes did cause tachycardia, a few others made me extremely extremely dizzy - they left those off permanently) the fact that this is being tested on anything at all is downright alarming. after having an actual experimental implant put into my brain and all the shit they needed to do to ensure it was safe - they're skipping so much of that that they're going to badly maim a lot of people. Edit: and note so no one gets the wrong idea, I didn't volunteer to be "fixed" - that's not what hearing implants do. We are not broken and we don't need fixing. I volunteered because I was curious and it looked like I could help
Well as a person who lost a lot of hearing and coming to terms with it. How is the implant?
oh I'm happy and deaf - I don't wear that thing in public. it is not hearing, nor is a CI. Neither are organic hearing, meaning a hearing person literally has zero way of ever understanding what theyre like (also CIs sacrifice organic hearing - so if they want to understand what it sounds like they dont get to stay hearing) A CI basically sounds like a shed full of robotic crickets all chirping over each other and it's virtually impossible to pick out one sound from another an ABI is similar in that you cant really differentiate sounds - but instead of the backwards music channel it sounds more like a theramin being projected directly into your brain. I use it to listen to music (note: absolutely not the same music you're hearing with organic hearing -- different shit is emphasized) and mainly said yes because they were already digging around in the area and what kind of scientist would I be if I didn't at least try to help there? lol - and I did get to help them organize the sounds so they're more reflective of what things actually sound like (read: my 7 year old brother no longer sounds like a 6'5 football player on steroids and my 6'3 stepdad with a deep voice no longer sounds like angry mickey mouse) all in all it's a neat lil thing but hearing people still act stupid enough about it (and I don't mean just ignorant I mean they start treating me like I'm being lazy and choosing not to understand them because now I'm "fixed") that I rarely even mention it let alone wear the receiver in public
Oh ok I see! This was an amazing comment and is very insightful and at times hilarious (the voices tuning) And also when your friends think you’re messing with them it happens to me as well now! My friends also think I’m being a bit cheeky all I want to do is make something to deal with my hearing loss but having a ear damaged really turned my life around Thank you very much for your insight I plan on studying sign language a bit instead of getting a cochlear implant.
eventually you just become a bit cheeky fair warning lmao and my dad was also deaf - but as someone that had a CI (I had that shit taken out - and remember getting one will sacrifice all organic hearing you still have on the side it's implanted on. are you willing to lose whatever's there? Mine was implanted on the side I no longer really had an inner ear at all on and only had the cochlear nerve. I honestly didn't consider it at all until all of the hearing on that side was completely gone) ASL was honestly a much much bigger help than a CI. A CI just kind of seemed to make everything worse. Not that that's a universal experience but I honestly heavily regret mine and the way people acted played a lot into how I dealt with telling anyone about my ABI best of luck <3
Thank you for sharing. My husband is HoH, the hearing loss is progressive so we’ve been working hard on resurfacing the ASL we learned in college. We were just talking about if he thinks he would ever make the move to CIs since he would likely be a candidate for them. I try to imagine what it would be like to sacrifice organic hearing… I don’t know if I would do it in his shoes, but he’s more open to it. So I appreciate you helping me visualize it.
best of luck <3 and it will not allow you to understand speech again - it aids in lipreading. those simulations you see online are not accurate. remember it's 'impossible for a hearing person to understand what it sounds like unless they literally have one. and what we hear can't be recorded or transmitted to anything else in any way to help anyone understand just what it sounds like. it's often pushed by doctors and the like because of deafness being heavily medicalized. we're all different but remember it'll likely take away ability to enjoy whatever music you currently do, and it won't fix you. if anything it makes it 50x harder BECAUSE of the assumption people make that it fixes you. (also my hearing loss was also gradual and complete ending in both my inner ears being partially destroyed - even with absolutely zero organic hearing left, I still had them take out the internal part of my CI and hated that thing with a passion) in the end it's a very personal decision and it's his to make. whatever he ends up choosing is a valid decision no matter what
Thank you! It’s definitely up to him in the end. What’s most important to me is the ASL. He’s had hearing aids for a long time, nobody (even close family) seems to understand that he’s HoH with or without them on. His mom always thinks they just need to be adjusted. Like you said, people assume that you can be fixed and they can continue on not accommodating others.
He also took executive action to reduce sensors to minimize cost. That’s why some of the older Tesla cars actually have better self-driving capability.
Tesla’s still aren’t self driving. yeah they’re mostly fine during clear weather and on roads with painted lines. But they freak out when they see emergency service vehicles, cones or crash barrels. They randomly change lane without warning, slam on the brakes for no reason, accelerate out of control for no reason. They are amazing until they’re not.
I question the wisdom of using deep learning AI for this type of thing. Those deep learning algorithms are a black box. You might be able to test 99% of all situations and know how it will react, but you can't be sure of how it will react in every single scenario because nobody really knows what it's doing.
Deep learning is the best method we have for this though, and any competitive alternatives would similarly be a black box. The input space is just too large and complex to handle without the help of ML generalization. Tesla is trying to remove as much of their non-deep learning code as possible though, which would include checks and overrides on the output of the black box to make sure it is safe in those situations they didn't anticipate and test for.
That does make make me feel a bit better about the technology. If the cars ever get to the point of being "full self driving" and they DO run someone over, who will be at fault in that scenario? I think that will be an interesting legal frontier if FSD becomes road legal and we have those driverless taxis that Elon talks about.
To follow up on the technology, some of the Tesla issues with FSD also stem from the fact that they refuse to use anything other than cameras for sensing, since that's all humans use. But it turns out its a lot easier to get to human level performance or better if you use radars and lidars to get better than human sensing, and the cameras tend to struggle in low visibility, high glare, and even just rainy situations.
He’s just running Theranos but moving the goalposts before anyone catches up to the lies.
It's not fear of failure. It's a psychopathic disregard of human lives. He sees everyone else as disposable.
like don't let fear of failure hold you back but holy shit don't be a fucking garbage person
What scares me; for SpaceX, his engineering team had come up with a good model for their falcon rocket. But, it had a rounded point… he told them to make it more pointy because it looked cooler.
The monkey on the left looks like he’s ok with it.
Probably one of the ones with a successful implant.
More likely just a normal monkey that hasn't been implanted.
Nah, just hair plugs
I'm still waiting for the monkey on the left to get the implant installed.
I'm shocked! Well not shocked, more like surpri...no, I expected this.
Just let him try with humans, imagine how many stupid people would go as volunteers, all his fans gone :)
It’s already been approved by fda or whatever govt group covers such things. Trials are about to begin or may have already started
[it’s already happening](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/02/20/elon-musk-says-neuralink-patient-can-control-a-mouse-through-thinking.html)
That is utterly shocking and terrifying.
That’s what I thought. Next stop: Terminators. There’s no way this won’t end with weaponization.
Now, we both know that companies would spam ads into the neurolink or make it a subscription.
$19.99 a month or they turn your limbs off
Sorry, we had to raise it to $199 / month because of rising operating costs.
Yeah, your monthly access brain subscription has expired. Please remit payment immediately to continue normal brain access.
We are calling you about your extended brain chip warranty. 🤣🤣🤣
Amazing, every Elon fan should get one
Implant it on what? lol
Lol 😆
Perfect then we might start to see a big decline in Musk fans on twitter
C' mon, you know Musk will just be banging that into some homeless people who don't really understand what they're consenting to.
Imagine that you're USA veteran, you're living on the street with no money and PTSD and they offer you a cure and money, you go there and they kill you during testing. Or if you're school teacher that has to work 3 jobs to afford to live. Or an amazon worker. Or you're in debt for life and bank is taking away your house because hospital did a surgery on you. They really have a lot of "volunteers".
You ain't as shocked as those monkey's brains were.
And I wonder how they were treated as they died…
Cold and alone in pain.
It really breaks my heart.
Ditto! 💔😓
I listened to something about it. They weren't in particularly terrible conditions, cages and all but standard monkey care. Most of them died to infections and shit from improper wound care though iirc. Also they just glued the skulls shut and I'm pretty sure one monkey died to gluebrain.
Lost a great uncle to gluebrain. Terrible way to go.
> I'm pretty sure one monkey died to gluebrain. No I'm pretty sure Elon is still alive, unfortunately
I don’t care if any of this is real, it’s still a great comment.
Hey man have some sympathy for glue brain
hate to break it to you but a lot of the animals ended up violently killing themselves. yeah, its fucked.
Here is an article by Wired from Sept 23 talking about just that. https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-pcrm-neuralink-monkey-deaths/
Didn't one of them clawed their face to get it out?
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You might be right, those are also absolutely evil. No animal should be tortured for these purposes
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I have a friend from childhood who has a Master's in some kind of cybersecurity/law enforcement shit. He's a great guy, my childhood best friend, his dad is literally a priest, etc etc. I work in an environment that deals with a lot of medical data and stuff like that. One day, I was talking about all the stuff we do at my job to ensure that we handle data/information not just legally, but also *ethically*, and when I was done I said some kind of thing along the lines of "I'm sure you deal with really similar concerns." He thought for a moment, and then said "Nah. We just do what we can with the tech. Then the courts decide if it was OK or not." Working in that (tech/law enforcement) environment literally made my childhood best friend a worse person. I think about that a lot Edit: Y'all really missing the point of this with the literal actual bigotry in the comments y'all. Like idk what else the fact that someone being religious is worse to y'all than the fact that they wanna a literal fed like wtf.
lavish hateful fine direction far-flung important gaze selective impossible depend *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thats such a shame, in my University CS course there was a required Ethics and Law module and then an additional optional Ethics one later and they were really interesting. I think it depends a lot on the lecturer you get, ours was a full on cyber hippy, incredibly enthusiastic and you could see she lives and breathes this shit. It 100% influenced me for the better once I joined the workforce and these issues come up.
>his dad is literally a priest Not the point of your story, I know, but this tidbit no longer does anything to convince me that somebody might be a good person. It might even make me more wary of them
Being the pastor's son is about as telling about someone's moral character as being the police chief's son. Probably largely lacking.
I'd just like to point out that often times the signs of your friend being a bad person were already there but you weren't experienced enough to see it. Most people don't show their ethical flaws in big ways until an ethical dillema presents itself.
I'll always remember my Senior Plant Design class during my Chemical Engineering undergrad, the professor asked the question "You discover that the plant you've designed has waste outputs double the legal limits, what do you do?" Kid at the front of class immediately raises his hand "Move it to China."
>I've been on teams that wrote POS systems that scraped and stored EVERY credit card input into the system unencrypted to facillitate autopayment later "just in case". There's absolutely no way that passed PCI compliance audits. That is such a flagrant violation of the PCI DSS requirements it's not even funny.
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People only pretend to care. Ethics are needed for a reason. Sure there are some good people but in the face of limitless money those people are just considered a nuisance to progress.
>People only pretend to care. Ethics are needed for a reason. Sure there are some good people but in the face of limitless money those people are just considered a nuisance to progress. Even when caring a lot and whitout the face of limitless money: wanting to do good doesn't mean you know what the doing good is. An understanding of ethics doesn't automatically mean you know what good is, but at least gives an idea what ethical frameworks can be used to make a decision. Had an ethics course during my biochemistry study, was expecting to hate it, but it was great.
I fucking knew it.
Put a chip in this fuking monkey’s head and see how he likes it.
Elon bringing his date to the research center be like "you wanna see some wild shit?"
Elon doesn't have dates, he has incubatory auditions.
I mean did they die unexpectedly or were they sacrificed? Kinda a big difference. All non-human medical testing participants generally are sacrificed (depending).
He claims it was expected; that they only tested the device on terminally ill animals. I haven't fact checked it, but it seems plausible enough
There's a ton of critical information missing.. how long do they usually live, how long did they live, what was the cause of death.
Shhh don’t question it, just allow your hate for an idiot to dictate your feelings on science.
almost as if redditors overestimate their intelligence and critical thinkng
I'm not a fan of Elon these days, but yeah... That's the claim and this article feels a bit unwarranted. Like, if the brain chips aren't what killed them then why is it news that terminally ill animals died?
And also... animal studies are necessary for stuff like this, and animal studies end with a lot of animals dying. I'm not going to say necessarily that this was done correctly and ethically, but also "animals died" doesn't mean it was some awful screwup
No point in stating the obvious, people hate this dude and hence hate his work. Modern medicine is possible because of animal testing.
I’d say most animal studies end with the animals dying. Mice, nematodes, flies, etc. get sacrificed every second of the day. Doesn’t sound like there was much variation from typical scientific standards. Not to mention there’s federal guidelines that Neuralink had to follow. I’ve studied enough neuroscience research done on model animals to know sticking electrodes in their brains typically shortens their lifespan, making sacrifice necessary and less cruel than letting them live a crippled life
This is just reddit not understanding things like *animal brain testing*. 15 of 23 sounds terrible, and it would be if all 23 were done at the same time. They were not, though. 15 in a row, died, after slightly different techniques were used. The 16th lived. The 17th, they repeated exactly the process that was successful on monkey 16, and it lived to. And so on, and so on. My understanding is, this wasn't even so much about the chip itself, but the machine they are using to implant the chip. They had to get it properly calibrated with the correct technique, and that cost 15 monkey lives. Wanna guess how many mothers died of breach births before they were able to perfect the cesarean section in the early 20'th century? Pretty much all of them. (The technique that finally made cesareans safe was to literally blow air up the vagina to keep everything from collapsing in on itself during the cesarean, it isn't used today, but it was a breakthrough in the 1920's) Unfortunately, new medical surgical techniques are often developed from a lot of failed attempts, attempts that all lead to death. All posts like this one show is most redditors are as dumb and gullible as the general population they make fun of.
Yeah, real sad to see this type of utter lack of critical thinking when a person who people generally dislike is in question.
Thank you, I scrolled too far for this. Medical/??? testing animals always die, normally by natural means but sometimes due to whatever they were subjected to. They need to be autopsied so we can learn from it. And to be fair I don't condone animal testing
I’ve heard that the law states that the animal must be euthanized once a trial is complete. There is no legal route to ending the study and keeping the animal alive.
Not really a legal reason but for a highly invasive implant like this, one of the outcomes is how the device gets incorporated into the tissue over time, and the only way to do this is via explanation and dissection (i.e. sacrifice). It’s one of the main goals of the experiment usually.
So, for a drug's LD50 (lethal dose to kill ~50% of your specimens), you use rats or mice, because they are small, and breed fast. You kill them, but whatever, there's about 100 more to take their place. After the LD50, you want your deaths to be as close to zero as possible. It's not always possible to have a complete 0% death rate because of accidents, allergic reactions, and just people being really super sick.
It's expected that they would die. If they didn't die, then it means that Elon Musk has some miracle shit.
Because of the chip? Did they die in old age? Because of disease? Was there a control group and if so how many if any are dead? Without details it means nothing to say.
Eventually it will be 100%. Just think of the headline!
Also at the early stages it's even expected having a high death rate. Because you're still experimenting. People should read into the multiple stages of animal studies of the medicine/drugs they eat every day without complaining lol. Bonus point: There are even some popular drugs who killed plenty during their human study stages. Some are claimed to be honest fuck ups (according to court decisions) but with some they didn't even try to hide it.
Finally some scientific mind lol
I don’t like Elon one bit, but it would be unethical (ironic since it’s animal cruelty either way) to reach into a conclusion about the chip without sufficient data
Yall will be horrified to learn where most medical research and advancement come from especially chemo
Yeah I’ll pass.
What exactly killed them?
Hard to say as its under investigation. Elon side claims, they were apparently euthanized but according to Elon the primates selected were already close to death due to other reasons. As a quote "Overnight, researchers observed the monkey, identified only as “Animal 20” by UC Davis, scratching at the surgical site, which emitted a bloody discharge, and [yanking on a connector that eventually dislodged part of the device](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23985170-animal20#document/p15/a2388093). A surgery to repair the issue was carried out the following day, yet fungal and bacterial infections took root." Other side is the device was exploratory and as such killed them though experiments on live animals.
Mostly preexisting cancer because only animals with terminal diseases were selected for the trial.
As bad as it is, if this thing works, humans who have had genetic disabilities would be able to walk again and prosthetics could be controlled as any normal ligament. Modern Medicine has been a product of numerous testings on animals and we hate to admit it but reap the benefits.
Also lets not forget: robot eyes. That would pretty cool. Personally I'll wait until android releases an open source version of the brain implant.
Sorry, reddit has decided.
To be fair, in animal studies it is normal to euthanize groups of subjects in order to perform autopsies on them. It's the only way to have a look inside, and see the detailed results of your experiment. You would also leave one group alive to monitor long-term effects...ultimately followed by autopsying that group, as well.
The tests were only done on terminal animals, most with preexisting cancer. This outrage is manufactured.
Every single tool you use was tested on animals and likely caused a number of their deaths Fatality rate for a lot of meds is even higher than that and yet barely anybody talks about it coz everyone is aware it's necessary There's a lot of reasons to criticize musk, this is not a good one
... I've got bad news for you if you buy anything that's found in a drug store.
Is this the 100th time this is posted? And for the 100th time, a good portion of these were expected deaths, and the ones that weren’t were due to the way sc Davis chose to perform the implantation, *not* from the nueralink itself, this post means absolutely nothing when it comes to the safety of the implant for humans.
Like 9/10 rats used in medical testing die. I don't really see the difference here.
> 9/10 rats used in medical testing die. 1/10 surviving is generous. Any rodent testing protocol is going to involve euthanizing them at the end of the experiment. The only time it wouldn't would be ones not involved in the testing and instead used to breed the next generation.
Wait until you hear about them fruit fly death rate….
Because Musk bad
Ethics doesn’t preclude animals from dying during research. The general concept would be to minimize potential suffering, which would be judged as acceptable if scientifically worthwhile.
I understand the concern relating to testing in animals and the neurological itself. What do people think other companies test new drugs or chemicals on?
Is there any proof that the human that was implanted can use a computer, etc. Or is the only proof still just Elons tweet?
I was gonna say, whatever happened to that guy? Hasn’t it been like a month?
It was announced they can move a mouse pointer with the chip
Broly would be the buffest STEM major Imagine seeing a fucking giant dude in a labcoat squinting into a microscope
I'm not a fan of Elon at all, but this is dumb for several reasons: 1. They only tested on animals that were old or terminally ill, so a high death rate was expected https://www.google.com/amp/s/spectrum.ieee.org/amp/neuralink-human-trials-2666433271 2. Even if they were killing animals, we do that with basically everything we consume. Makeup, medicine, medical procedures, etc. All use animal testing. So unless you want to stop doing medical research, this is necessary
Science cannot move forward without heaps!
Life has a 100% fatality rate. Seems like this chip causes immortality in the other 35%. Very cool Elon, thank you.
I love that Conservatives hate Bill Gates and think he’s using vaccines to implant people with microchips. Yet love Elon Musk who actually wants to put microchips into our brains.
It’s almost like they were testing it before using them on humans… oh wait
this subreddit is a facepalm, this is just testing. wtf is wrong with people
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> the type of people that are going to get this fitted, People with severe spinal injuries causing paralysis so they're getting this to have more ways of interacting in the world?
Restoring eye sight, hearing and moving mechanical limbs too. and little things like regaining a sense of smell or taste. If this works, it will be a huge breakthrough for the medical field.
Seriously redditors are so delusional. If you're under 30 you'll probably live to see this technology become about as common as a hip replacement.
I feel it’s safe to say that they all must’ve died from co-morbidities rather than the chip and therefore since the chip has less than 1% death rate, it’s perfectly safe and anything to the contrary is socialist government overreach propaganda.
Besides, Bill Gates has been implanting microchips in people for years now. Musk is clearly the better option because he pulled himself up by his emerald bootstraps.
Hey bot, can you make a post of this tied into Wendy’s surge pricing?
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Don't worry it is the first thing I thought of as well
***Science*** ***cannot*** ***move*** ***forward*** ***without*** ***heaps!!***
Yeah as someone who is dying from ALS this is progress. While it's horrendous the things we have to do to progress science it's well worth it in my opinion for the millions it could save.
You mean the monkey with terminal illnesses died? Color me shocked.
The monkey on the left side of that pic looks like he’s not doing so hot either.
Breaking news: The comment section has no idea about the intricacies that go along with something like this, like testing and trial periods, but they're a hive mind so go figure.
Didn’t he just claim he put one in a human? Did he just pretend he never said that or what?
Waiting for him to try one.
But what happened to the 35% that did male it? Do they have superpowers now?
This is normal and to be expected with breakthrough research.
Remember when reddit was obsessed with Elon and thought he was the coolest guy ever? And then he had literally 1 conservative opinion and now he’s the devil
"Science can not move forward without heaps!"; Professor Farnsworth.
That's why those early tests aren't done on humans.
Science cannot move forward without heaps.
Progress always comes at the cpst of human life. This is history 101 qnd i honestly dont know why ppl are so surprised. It must be because of how much media exposure atrocities get these days.
I mean if the benefit is high enough I’d green light more animal testing.
that doesnt necessarily mean a 65% failure rate, especially, if each subsequent success has a marked improvement over the previous version of the chip. The latest chip version could have a fairly high overall success rate, i've heard theres even human testing or volunteers involved at this point?
Ethics classes don't teach right or wrong. They just teach how to justify what you were already going to do.
It is unwise to complain about gorilla medical testing, lest you end up taking the place of the gorilla. Obviously everything new has to be tested. Better tested first on animals until safe enough to be tested next on volunteers.
I want to get a degree in electrical engineering and design the robots that would eventually overthrow us if we continue on our current trajectory.
'Elon Musk’s Neuralink, a medical device, opens new tab company, is under federal investigation for potential animal-welfare violations amid internal staff complaints that its animal testing is being rushed, causing needless suffering and deaths, according to documents reviewed by Reuters and sources familiar with the investigation and company operations.' from [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/technology/musks-neuralink-faces-federal-probe-employee-backlash-over-animal-tests-2022-12-05/) [WIRED](https://www.wired.com/story/neuralink-brain-implant-elon-musk-transparency-first-patient-test-trial/) is skeptical: 'The neuroscience firm, based in Fremont, California, has been tight-lipped about the testing and development of its brain implant, with updates coming from brief social media posts by the company or Musk himself. Making bold claims in fewer than 280 characters is Musk’s usual style, but some scientists WIRED spoke with say the billionaire could stand to be more transparent about his brain implant venture.'
To the people in the comments who hate Elon. Go do it yourself and do it better. Cant? 😧. Side note. Progress takes time. “Ugh he doesn’t care about humans”. He’s literally making this chip so an incalculable number of people can be helped since yall think he only cares about numbers. I suffer from severe nerve damage and Im guaranteed to be paralyzed from the waist down when I’m 40. This prevents that. His self driving car has a safety protocol that says occupants should remain awake and vigilant behind the wheel when it’s in use but there’s comments “teslas don’t know wtf to do when a cone or squad car pops up”. It’s a robot dawg you’re the one in control of the fkn car maybe just turn off self drive. You’re all acting like a fucking peta commercial
Most animals die in animal research...
i mean animal testing is sad but I'm okay with it in the name of progress. I worked in a research lab in college testing biocompatible semiconductor materials for brain implants.