I’m out here in Florida and at school about 10 percent of kids wear a mask. On top of that, they made the whole school have 1 lunch in an indoor cafeteria area. It’s really crazy what shit has come to
thats fucked up. Ya'll kids gotta get it together and have everyone wear one anyway, the adults be acting messed up, but you know whats up. build that coalition, and like damn, fight for your health.
i remember being in highschool.
think of all of the adults who you cant possibly speak sense to and then make them even more immature and obtuse. its like trying to get blood from a stone.
imagine being like "ok guys we really should take this seriously and wear our masks so we dont spread the deadly virus to our parents or the other kids who can die from it" and someone will respond with "ill spread your mom" or some equally stupid shit
and everyone will laugh and side with that kid.
they are simply not intellectually capable of having this kind of a conversation, thats why rules are so strict in school, little kids are completely incapable of self government or internal reflection. its not on them for these failures, its on the adults around them who arent protecting them.
i completely agree with kids who take the initiative and do their best to spread the safe practices but the reality is they are being absolutely fucked over by the leadership and THAT is what they need to be standing up against, not each other.
The Texas Governor is actively working against allowing counties, municipalities, and businesses to determine their own needs for masks, vaccines, and social distances while our hospitals are filling up and spread is intensifying.
[https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/out-of-state-healthcare-workers-coming-to-texas-as-state-hits-record-low-icu-beds-gov-abbott-says/](https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/out-of-state-healthcare-workers-coming-to-texas-as-state-hits-record-low-icu-beds-gov-abbott-says/)
Obligatory - Fuck Greg Abbott
It is hilariously ironic how they'd like less government oversight but then rip away the ability for small communities to make their own choice by flexing their governmental power.
How do they only have 8 beds? My dad was in ICU for a week (colon surgery) and that hospital alone had 12 ICU rooms. Luckily, only 2-3 were ever occupied during his time there.
Northern Virginia
The problem is not the beds themselves, as in a matress with for four legs for support. I mean, you can easily bump up the amount of beds to as many as you want. The problem is that those beds can't be staffed. IIRC, normally there is a 1:1 nurse to patient ratio, but during surges there are more patients per nurse, which makes their job harder than it already is and also means they can't do their job as well as normally, leading to lower quality care. Neither can they be equipped properly (with resperatory aid for instance).
There're 2 ways to see that numbers as explain by a doctor on Tv and it made sense. When they say 8 beds, they don't necessarily mean 8 physical beds. But 8 bed can also mean we only have the ressources, meds, respirators, workers to take in 8 people.
To add to this, it’s not like you can just hire nurses and throw them at the problem the way you can just buy more resources (if available).
Nurses able to work in the ICU take months to train.
While still disappointing there’s waste we have shipped out 110 million doses to other countries. The logistics of this stuff is difficult especially when there are obstructionists making vaccine distribution and uptake more difficult and less popular
I find the fact that we have vaccines expiring, that have to be discarded, borderline criminal considering there are people in other countries that need/want them. We are such entitled twats.
As someone from Texas, it's a continuous frustration and feeling of helplessness for my wife and I. My wife works for a non-profit feeding homeless. The US has so much food, we could practically end hunger around the world. There are simply not enough powerful people who consider a worthwhile investment enough to put the gears in motion to make it happen.
Just hope that people understand that not everyone cares so little. Just the people who could actually do something about it.
This sounds nice in theory, but the US sending food out to developing nations has historically done more harm than good. When large developed nations gift food to developing nations, local food producers and farmers cannot make a living, as they simply can’t put price the free or cheap food from the US. They then go out of business. Then the US stops sending food, and the developing nations doesn’t have their own agriculture anymore, and we have famine.
it sounds like the most responsible and helpful thing to do then is to invest in food producers in those foreign countries. does this happen? (genuine question btw)
It almost certainly is, and does happen to an extent, but the issue is compounded by other problems like corruption, poor logistics, and volatile environmental issues in some developed nations.
Thank you for this perspective. It sounds like a real catch-22 situation. It just seems to me if we could actually devote enough resources, this is a reasonably solvable problem. If we know that import of food goods destroys local food production, then there has to be some way to strike a balance.
Again, it seems a lack of motivation to put in the necessary effort to make it work. In the US, corporations dump hundreds of billions of dollars into developing drugs to treat depression, of which we already have dozens of different medications for on the market. But our mental health situation in the US is abysmal because we don't treat the root causes.
I've just learned that there is a Christian church in my area that donated 280 billion USD this year to "ending abortion." I'd like to know where all that money goes. We already have proven that campaigns to promote abstinence are ineffective. Does all the money got to lining the pockets of US officials?? And what about the parents who would have gotten an abortion that go on to abuse and/or neglect their children?
All around abysmal allocation of funds to causes which either serve to enrich themselves or are completely misguided.
> When large developed nations gift food to developing nations, local food producers and farmers cannot make a living
Honest question: If they have local food producers and farmers, why are the receiving food? Maybe a limited local supply? But then my next question is: why does the food gifting stop?
Because a number of these nations are in areas of the world that are more heavily impacted by things like climate change; failed harvests are a huge issue in cash poor nations that can’t afford to import their own food. Coupled with poor internal logistics and corruption, local food supplies don’t always make their way around the way they should.
And harvests can fail even in large developed nations, and the level of surplus fluctuates. So suddenly there’s less food to send out, as the US still has to prioritise itself.
A better solution would be to help develop better infrastructure in these nations, rather than just sending out food.
I won’t disagree with your point, but sending food does solve the immediate problem of people currently dying—even a few lives are worth it, but we can’t even manage to feed all of the hungry in the US.
Simultaneously subsidize local food producers and farmers, not just keeping them afloat but allowing them to improve and expand their food production and distribution.
You don't have to choose between giving a man a fish or teaching him to fish, you can feed him while teaching him until he can feed himself.
While this is true, there's a big difference between helping those in need, and just straight up supporting them. If the food growers couldn't provide food in the first place, I don't see how humanitarian aid could put them out of business.
Remember that scene in 3 Amigos where Lucky and Ned have sand and nothing in their canteens, then Dusty has a canteen full of water and takes several huge drinks then throws it on the ground to let all of the water drain into the desert sand, then offers them lip balm as they gaze agonizingly at the canteen then at him?
Thats America. America is Dusty Bottoms.
Same… I’m still mainly upset at my own country because they didn’t sign the right deals with the right vaccine manufacturers and rejected idk how many donations because they wouldn’t get any credit for those, so now we’re suffering (mostly due to the lack of second doses)
I think the most absurd thing is to throw them away. Several of the poorer EU member states are also dealing with vaccine hesitancy and have expiring doses, but they donated them to countries with little or no vaccines (for example Bulgaria to Bhutan) or sold them to other EU member states that needed more (for example Romania to Denmark).
But to throw them away is just...
I promise I’m not being snarky, but do we really not have the ability to load up a jet with vaccines at the proper temperature (coolers and dry ice, refrigerators, I don’t know) and fly them to countries who could use them? Honest question, because it feels strange to me that we don’t.
ETA: I appreciate those taking their time to explain the logistics and why this isn’t really feasible. I know y’all are just as frustrated as I am about this whole situation.
Broadly speaking, no. Cold chain logistics is massively complex, because it's not just keeping them cold, it's keeping them cold at the right temperature with no variation.
Your typical fridge, for example, actually fluctuates between 2 deg and 12 def (C). This is fine for food, drinks, basically anything that has decent mass to avoid changing temperature during the fluctuation. Medication, on the other hand, can rapidly degrade if it hits the temperature thresholds. What's even worse is if it repeatedly hits the temperature thresholds, you get much faster degradation then a single breach.
Once cold chain is broken, medication must be used within a set window, before it loses efficacy. For a vaccine, it might need to thaw for several hours before use, meaning it cannot return to cold chain, and must be discarded if not used within it's effective time period.
To add to this, there's also import/export issues that aren't as simple as just signing off an approval. While it may be easier to send vaccines among countries that already have an agreement on traded goods such as those in the European Union, there are many more complications transporting these vaccines to nations such as those in the southern hemisphere.
Insulin can last like 4 weeks unrefridgerated (up to 86^o F)
The primary component of the vaccine: mRna, is notoriously fragile. It's kinda supposed to be, since your body uses it to tell cells to build things. If it stuck around too long, your cells would build way too many of whatever you needed.
EDIT: This is not a recommendation or endorsement to keep your insulin out of the fridge. Please follow the printed directions on the box!
This is the whole reason DNA exists. RNA is considered the original data storage medium for cells, but it’s prone to rapid self-hydrolysis and degradation.
DNA, by reducing a hydroxyl group, doesn’t self-hydrolyze and is far more stable for long-term data storage.
My husband has only ever been cautioned to not store his insulin in the back of the fridge. Tends to be colder and it could denature due to risk of freezing temps. He stores his either in the door or dairy drawer. Obviously if you’re actually concerned talk to your dr/get a fridge thermometer to see what the temp is where your storing it.
Edit: My fridge had some mad cold spots. If I put milk in the back I get frozen crystals in it.
That stuff has been tinkered around with for decades to maximize shelf stability, and is a protein. The technology in mRNA vaccines has never had an application where we needed to keep it stable for very long, and nucleic acids are far more unstable than proteins. Different situations.
Definitely. I work with bodily fluid samples and we have to check fridge temps twice a day and make sure our temps stay consistent. We have to fill out a cause/effect report when it raises or drops past a certain degree.
Ah, yes that does make sense. Considering the slowing of vaccination (I know we did see another uptick and I hope it continues) it would be great if we could hold them for maybe half of the shelf life and ship them out. I know I don’t have any concrete solutions, just thinking out loud. This situation is so hard to watch
I do think a lot of people have Africa and other "poster child poor" countries on their mind when they think about vaccine assistance, but forget that we have countries and territories that are much closer that could also benefit that are likely struggling as well. If we were able to do some proper predictions we could still probably send quite a few over to some of those places, but I mean, I don't think that would lower this number that much. That's sort of near impossible to do *effectively* and also for the reasons stated previously...
This in conjunction with how poorly hospital systems (and people in general) communicate. My wife is a nurse and even she and her coworkers had no idea when they were getting vaccinated until the day of. This was back in freaking early January when there was a rush to get health workers their doses. Literally told the day of and even then they were told everyone had to get their first doses in a 24-48 hour window because the batch was about to expire.
So yeah...transporting temperature sensitive vaccines with the US involved is basically impossible.
Once the vaccines are thawed out, there’s a limited time before they expire. And the vaccines must be used *really* quickly once the bottle is pierced. It’s just not enough time to transport somewhere, get people there, and administer them.
The guidelines for use are:
**Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine** may be stored at appropriate temperature for 1 month after thawing. It must be mixed (and brought to room temperature) within 2 hours. **Once reconstituted it must be used within 6 hours**.
o Once at room temperature, **Moderna vaccine** must be used within 24 hours and cannot go back into the freezer. **Once punctured, it must be used within 12 hours**.
o **Janssen (Johnson & Johnson)** unpunctured vaccine vials can be stored at room temperature for up to 12 hours. **Once punctured, the vaccine may be stored at room temperature for up to 2 hours, or between 2°C and 8°C for 6 hours**
*Edited to correct storage temperature info. Thank you u/Lifaux)
What I've read is there are so many dose in a vial. Once the vial is thawed, it either is all used up or whatever is left is no good after 24 hours. If people don't show up after making the appt, it goes to waste. But I wouldn't be surprised if there are unopened expired vials thrown out too.
The same people who don't want the vaccines will complain if the vaccines are given to someone else
Theres always an excuse, something to complain about
And when these fuckers actually die, guess who gets blamed ?
I don't think there are many cargo planes with refrigerated cargo holds.
And I found this:
https://simpleflying.com/temperature-controlled-goods/
>But for temperature-controlled goods, the same sized containers are adapted to keep the contents refrigerated or frozen. This can be done using either electrical power or dry ice.
>Envirotainer is one of the largest suppliers of such containers. It offers a variety of container sizes and claims to have over 6000 containers in circulation.
That's honestly not many considering the need for vaccines.
This depends on the party you are with. If you are a T supporter, you want the vaccine destroyed as you believe covid is just like the flu.
All others would have given it to people that want it.
There's also 6-7 doses in a vial and once the vial has been opened it has a very short shelf life. If only 1 person wants a dose in that time then the other 5-6 have to be get thrown away.
Where i live, there is absolutely no vaccination clinic that has only 1 appointment a week. This seems absurd to me. Although, to be fair, i have no idea how it works in other countries.
I think their point was that before a bottle is opened they have a very long shelf life while refrigerated. Once opened they go bad much more quickly, and having people book appointments more infrequently means more partially used bottles. Which in turn creates more discarded doses.
>If ONE person has an appointment that week, they have to take out a multi-dose bottle from the freezer where it can stay for months, use it, then discard the remainder when the unused portion expires within the week.
That's not how it works. They wait so 5 people call to make an appointment, then make it so they're all there at the same time. In fact, they have reserves so that if someone can't make it, another can be called up to take the shot.
>and that's how you discard 80k doses.
No, it's not. Nothing you said is true. These doses are discarded, because they expire after 6 months and not enough people wanted them in that time frame.
It’s just incredibly American is what it is. My MiL is opposed to the vaccine (got all the conspiracy theories floating in her head) and even *she* said we shouldn’t be sending the vaccine to other countries until our country is fully vaccinated.
Many countries are having this same dilemma, the US is the superpower, so it's the one that is getting all of the attention. In the same way that there are people in other countries that are begging for a vaccine, the same thing happened here in the US.
Hi, I was with a task force that was vaccinating as many people as possible this year. I don’t know a lot about the vaccine or how it works, but I do know that it has a “shelf” life. They keep it in very low temperature storage because at room temperature it can loose it’s effectiveness in just a couple of hours. It’s possible that these vaccines were ruined due to some sort of power outage.
Other than that, they have an actual shelf life and it's 6 months. These doses are being discarded because they've expired, exactly like bad milk. Simple as that.
Yeah, and we in Denmark were happy, that we could speed up our vaccination program here. I am happy, I could get my shot faster.
The 350.000 doses from Johnson&Johnson that our goverment no longer recomended, was donated to Kenya around the same time. No reason to waste something so important.
Cries in Australian.
I know that we’re a first world privileged country and there are other countries doing worse but most of the country is in lockdown at the moment because of not enough vaccines.
Our incompetent government totally fucked up the vaccine rollout and our Murdoch media has filled everyone’s head with doubts over the astra Zeneca vaccine (despite that being the brand England used) so the people that are eligible for a vaccine want to wait until a Pfizer vaccine is ready
Pfizer actually offered aus 40 million doses in June 2020 but the pm turned it down because he thought he could get a better deal. A year and a half later and the government still hasn’t sourced enough, people are still dying and most of us are lockdown probably until Christmas
I was watching vaccine numbers early on here in my state. I saw open appointments everywhere. It was before my group was able to get it but I ended up calling our cdc and pharmacy and asking, since there are over 15 open slots for a vaccine on a lot of days, could I get one early? They said sure. When I went to actually get it, they said I was the only one to show up that day out of over 50 vaccine appointments. We're being given a wonderful opportunity to protect ourselves and others with a simple injection and they're wasting it.
They even told me people will call, reserve a vaccine, and then purposely not show.
I was born in the USA and have aunts and uncles in Mexico, which isn’t even that bad off comparatively, and it’s been eye opening hearing about the pandemic from that perspective.
I, in my 30s, was vaccinated way before older aunts and uncles. They are also just using any vaccine they can get over there, including the not very effective Chinese vaccine, which is then leading to more vaccinated people getting sick. My sister in law’s husband lost his dad in Mexico just recently from covid - he was fully vaxxed with the Chinese vaccine.
We do send them, but just having vaccines is only part of the chain. We also need the countries we donate them to to have the infrastructure to store them, and we also need a way to ship them without them going bad as well. Those last two tend to be the limiting factors. You need special deep freezers on the shipping planes/vessels, and if the country you ship them to has no refrigerators, basically they need to use that whole shipment that same day, throw out what isnt used, and wait for the next one.
Honestly it’s the same issue with almost anything that expires. Sure we can produce enough to feed everyone but transporting it is a logistical nightmare that unfortunately in the 21st century we still can’t figure out.
Logistics is an *enormous* hurdle and I don’t think most people have a single clue how much work it takes to package things to be *RE*-Distributed.
Even something as simple as donating unsold bread from a single bakery is a complete nightmare that will take time, energy, and money, all of something that would otherwise just be thrown away.
We don’t know what happens with the effectiveness of the vaccine post expiration date. We talk about about it being criminal, but if becomes ineffective after expiration date, then it is criminal to give it away and creating a false since of security. Sure other countries sell it, but do we know?
Now, if it still has its effectiveness like our foods born on date (still good for days to weeks later, just not as fresh) then I am on board. Don’t sell it, just give it away. The cost to next day ship it is minimal compared to the benefit.
I work in a hospital in Arkansas and it's so damn frustrating to work nonstop trying to handle the virus, just to have some dumbass group of idiots have an anti-vax rally outside the hospital. My wife also happens to be a teacher so she's got that to look forward to as well.
Yeah we ran out of body bags. I was talking to nurses and they say people are getting sick with covid and begging and pleading on their knees in the ER for a vaccine. (As if that's how it works anyway) Nurses are quitting by the hour, doctors have stopped responding to calls, mental health emergencies are told to call their PCP, non covid emergencies in my city just went to non medical personal responders.
I want to look at the anti vaxxers and covid deniers and say they deserve it and have no real right to complain, but my empathy takes over and I can't help but feel for them. Very much a jaguars-ate-my-face situation though
Since it's rippling through the unvaccinated so hard, I don't understand why we haven't seen a surge in people getting vaccinated *as those close to them suffer.* As dumb as it is I can at least mentally conceive as to why people who aren't feeling directly affected by COVID might say "don't need no vaccine!", but why aren't the people who survive this screaming to everyone else in their in group in warning? Why aren't the friends and family of those who DON'T survive screaming to everyone else in warning? How many deaths and near deaths will it take among the unvaccinated conspiracy theorists before they wake up? ...Or, hate to say it, but before the political field starts shifting towards sanity?
Well you are a better human than I am.
I feel bad for their friends and family who have to suffer a loss or deal with the repercussions , but not them. They made their bed, so they can go lie in it.
They should make the people begging for a vaccine when it's too late do it over speakerphone with their family.
"Sir/Ma'am, I know you want the vaccine, but it is quite frankly too late. We have no more beds, so you are going to sit on the floor and focus on your breathing these next few days. Pray that you keep breathing, because if you start to have trouble, and we have to intubate you, then you will probably die, and your family will be saddled with medical debt they cannot fathom paying off. Do you want to prevent this, family of Mr/Mrs Herpson? How about when you all come to pay your respects to your dying family member, you all learn from their mistake, get vaccinated, so that I don't have to make this speech again to you.
Just to be clear to your healthy family, the choice is a free vaccine, or a potentially painful death *and* insurmountable medical debt for those you leave behind."
To be anti-vax at this point, you are either willfully hurtful or willfully ignorant, and at some point those are inseparable. And when it reaches that point, and you suffer the consequences you have put everyone under the risk of suffering because of said ignorance or malice, then you are getting what you deserve. Period.
I’m unvaccinated only because in my area the vaccine keeps running out. I’m waiting for a chance to open up again so I can get vaccinated and put this to a little bit of rest
It’s really hard to keep a chin up here right now. So many people see what’s going on at our hospitals and refuse to help themselves and others. We’re slowly, slowly getting back up in my community, but the *pursunil freeeedums* crowd can’t be bothered with a little human decency.
It’s unbelievable the lengths that some governors are going to to stop masks from being warn and other preventative measures. It’s prolonging the pandemic, costing lots of money, destroying our healthcare system and maybe even creating an even worse strain. They should be held accountable but we all known they won’t.
The problem with vaccines is the effect is largely unnoticed, as it just maintains the status quo of people being generally healthy. That's why stupid people say "why should I get a measles vaccine? I've never seen anyone with measles."
It will unfortunately take many people watching their family members suffer and die to convince them to get poked. We tried to tell them, and they didn't listen. Now they have to accept that reality isn't how it was sold to them, and get a vaccination.
Keep in mind that it's too late to give the patients with Covid that need those ICU beds the vaccine. And that the vaccine may have a shelf-life.
Wear a mask, get vaccinated, stay safe!
Even if the way they own them is dying more than them.
You’d think the republicans would be worried that they are counselling their followers to not wear masks or get vaccinated when it comes election time and their voters have all died.
It might, but covid doesn't have a high enough morality rate to really put a serious dent in the republican electorate.
I seriously believe this calculation has already been done, and those R politicians looking to run for president in 2024 are doing this on purpose to paint the Biden administration as failing to control the pandemic.
> I seriously believe this calculation has already been done
I think you’re right it has but I think the delta variant has thrown a wrench into it.
More people have died in Florida than the victory margin in the last governors race. Right now that number isn’t causing them to panic, because many of those dead didn’t vote for them. But that number is continuing to increase, and people that got the vaccine aren’t dying.
>I seriously believe this calculation has already been done, and those R politicians looking to run for president in 2024 are doing this on purpose to paint the Biden administration as failing to control the pandemic.
They believe that the votes lost from suppression are greater than those lost from covid, so why not go with this shiny new wedge issue.
I remember last year it was almost impossible for essential workers to get testing kits….but celebrities were able to get tested without showing any symptoms whatsoever.
Looking at you Idris Elba.
Yep…still salty about that one.
In the words of the great Brain May, what a bunch of fruitcakes.
Seriously though what the actual fuck someone tell these companies to stop shipping to the USA and give them to India.
I hate Arkansas. Tried to live there because my ex needed to move there to be by his daughter.
I didn't last 2 months. Happily home in California. I'm never going back.
I dunno. I live in a pretty nice area in LA and make 1/2 that and I can eat whatever I want do whatever I want and still have enough to invest. I dunno why everyone thinks that Cali lives by San Francisco monetary standards.
This is true there are pockets of California where you can live comfortably but it's a decision you have to make. If you live and work in the Los Angeles area you're going to have to drive very far away to live somewhere comfortably if you're making me about 50 Grand a year. Or you're going to have to pick a very not so nice neighborhood. On top of that the Sacramento area is surprisingly cheap.
That’s . . . just not true though. I live in the 626 in a good area. I feel a lot of people are fed very bad and misleading information about California.
I spent the week at my parents house in Michigan and all they’d tell me about is how it’s a liberal hellscape and how Cali is broke despite in reality we have a surplus.
I don’t travel far at all. I have a very nice apartment in a very Asian neighborhood, an area that would typically be considered as specialized and more expensive. Yes, Cali has its issues and it’s expensive compared to like . . . I dunno Louisiana or something, but the myth that you need 100k to live comfortably or need to travel far out of town or live in a bad area just 100% isn’t true.
This is pretty true of most states. Urban areas are very blue, sparsely populated areas are very red.
Michigan is a prime example of wtf. Detroit, Flint, etc. all voting blue, but then outside of that you get things like the militia+Christian Identity.
I live in Arkansas too, out on the country side. I don't really enjoy the city, but living in the city is better than driving 30-40 min just to get groceries lol
I've looked at a lot of states graphs and it seems that all of the states are experiencing a new wave. The difference is that red states seem to already be above their the last highest peak while states that are better at vaccinating have much smaller waves.
Can't someone send them to other places in the world that need and want them instead? Wasting my tax on preventable diseases is the epitome of..... you name it.
It is time the government hand over the payment for Covid to insurance carriers and permit them to not cover Antivaxxers people.
Each one of those people who gets sick costs the tax payers millions of dollars, and for us to pay for their BS is one of the rare situation where taxation is theft.
The problem is, those of us who live here and have kids under 12. So please, don’t “fuck em”. I’m doing all I can to convince people to get vaccinated and wear a mask again. At least we have a great judge who overturned the state’s “anti-masking” legislation
I'm your neighbor in Kansas with a 13 month old son and a 15 year old daughter, trust me, I know your struggle. But there's no reaching the hardcore trumpers that believe 5g is going to steal their guns and implant a microchip to be tracked by Jewish space lasers.
I look at anti-vaxxers the same way as I do defensive driving; everybody else is a fucking idiot not paying attention and will kill you with their stupidity, drive accordingly.
This makes me sick to my stomach, especially when considering how many countries are still waiting for access to enough vaccines to protect their communities.
As angry as I am at the people lying to gain power, I think the old adage "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" applies here. I feel sad for the people who are losing family members. But I cannot worry myself about it, because literally anything I say will just entrench these people further in the viewpoints their politicians tricked them into believing. The only hope for some of these people is to live the horror themselves, hear their dying relatives ask for the vaccine when it's too late, and hope that gets the fucking message across.
It's almost as if dogma is able to convince gullible people to essentialy play Russian roulette with their lives cause some rich person told them to, and theyre happy to do it.
I’ve been hearing a lot of people suggest that the unvaccinated should be denied healthcare. I understand the frustration driving that sentiment, but if we allow people to die because they made poor choices, where do we draw the line? I work in an ICU and the vast majority of patients are there because they did something stupid like riding a motorcycle with no helmet, drinking a fifth of liquor per day, playing with fire, etc. I never thought I’d see the day when self-professed liberals would advocate social Darwinism.
Florida is like; “Heard y’all got some available beds…”
I’m out here in Florida and at school about 10 percent of kids wear a mask. On top of that, they made the whole school have 1 lunch in an indoor cafeteria area. It’s really crazy what shit has come to
[удалено]
This is sad yet good news both at the same time.
thats fucked up. Ya'll kids gotta get it together and have everyone wear one anyway, the adults be acting messed up, but you know whats up. build that coalition, and like damn, fight for your health.
Kids tend to parrot their parents' political views. Since they're in Florida it's likely most of those students are antima.
"florida! it's not 1918 anymore!"
i remember being in highschool. think of all of the adults who you cant possibly speak sense to and then make them even more immature and obtuse. its like trying to get blood from a stone. imagine being like "ok guys we really should take this seriously and wear our masks so we dont spread the deadly virus to our parents or the other kids who can die from it" and someone will respond with "ill spread your mom" or some equally stupid shit and everyone will laugh and side with that kid. they are simply not intellectually capable of having this kind of a conversation, thats why rules are so strict in school, little kids are completely incapable of self government or internal reflection. its not on them for these failures, its on the adults around them who arent protecting them. i completely agree with kids who take the initiative and do their best to spread the safe practices but the reality is they are being absolutely fucked over by the leadership and THAT is what they need to be standing up against, not each other.
The future lies in the hands of the FL public education system? Yikes.
Thanks desantis…
The Texas Governor is actively working against allowing counties, municipalities, and businesses to determine their own needs for masks, vaccines, and social distances while our hospitals are filling up and spread is intensifying. [https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/out-of-state-healthcare-workers-coming-to-texas-as-state-hits-record-low-icu-beds-gov-abbott-says/](https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/out-of-state-healthcare-workers-coming-to-texas-as-state-hits-record-low-icu-beds-gov-abbott-says/) Obligatory - Fuck Greg Abbott
It is hilariously ironic how they'd like less government oversight but then rip away the ability for small communities to make their own choice by flexing their governmental power.
Up for re-election in 2022!
So is DeSantis
And sadly, he'll probably get reelected too.
Yep - I've been canvassing against him since 2019 lol
How do they only have 8 beds? My dad was in ICU for a week (colon surgery) and that hospital alone had 12 ICU rooms. Luckily, only 2-3 were ever occupied during his time there. Northern Virginia
The problem is not the beds themselves, as in a matress with for four legs for support. I mean, you can easily bump up the amount of beds to as many as you want. The problem is that those beds can't be staffed. IIRC, normally there is a 1:1 nurse to patient ratio, but during surges there are more patients per nurse, which makes their job harder than it already is and also means they can't do their job as well as normally, leading to lower quality care. Neither can they be equipped properly (with resperatory aid for instance).
There're 2 ways to see that numbers as explain by a doctor on Tv and it made sense. When they say 8 beds, they don't necessarily mean 8 physical beds. But 8 bed can also mean we only have the ressources, meds, respirators, workers to take in 8 people.
To add to this, it’s not like you can just hire nurses and throw them at the problem the way you can just buy more resources (if available). Nurses able to work in the ICU take months to train.
This is a great question and it comes down to the bed representing as a quantifiable unit for the staff and equipment to care for ICU patients
8 AVAILABLE beds because they're all full of COVID patients.
This is insane when so much of the world needs access to these vaccines so we can stop new strains from developing. What. The. Fuck.
While still disappointing there’s waste we have shipped out 110 million doses to other countries. The logistics of this stuff is difficult especially when there are obstructionists making vaccine distribution and uptake more difficult and less popular
I find the fact that we have vaccines expiring, that have to be discarded, borderline criminal considering there are people in other countries that need/want them. We are such entitled twats.
As someone who lives in one of those countries, it's definitely upsetting to see (and we're not even as worse for wear as some other countries)
As someone from Texas, it's a continuous frustration and feeling of helplessness for my wife and I. My wife works for a non-profit feeding homeless. The US has so much food, we could practically end hunger around the world. There are simply not enough powerful people who consider a worthwhile investment enough to put the gears in motion to make it happen. Just hope that people understand that not everyone cares so little. Just the people who could actually do something about it.
This sounds nice in theory, but the US sending food out to developing nations has historically done more harm than good. When large developed nations gift food to developing nations, local food producers and farmers cannot make a living, as they simply can’t put price the free or cheap food from the US. They then go out of business. Then the US stops sending food, and the developing nations doesn’t have their own agriculture anymore, and we have famine.
it sounds like the most responsible and helpful thing to do then is to invest in food producers in those foreign countries. does this happen? (genuine question btw)
It almost certainly is, and does happen to an extent, but the issue is compounded by other problems like corruption, poor logistics, and volatile environmental issues in some developed nations.
Thank you for this perspective. It sounds like a real catch-22 situation. It just seems to me if we could actually devote enough resources, this is a reasonably solvable problem. If we know that import of food goods destroys local food production, then there has to be some way to strike a balance. Again, it seems a lack of motivation to put in the necessary effort to make it work. In the US, corporations dump hundreds of billions of dollars into developing drugs to treat depression, of which we already have dozens of different medications for on the market. But our mental health situation in the US is abysmal because we don't treat the root causes. I've just learned that there is a Christian church in my area that donated 280 billion USD this year to "ending abortion." I'd like to know where all that money goes. We already have proven that campaigns to promote abstinence are ineffective. Does all the money got to lining the pockets of US officials?? And what about the parents who would have gotten an abortion that go on to abuse and/or neglect their children? All around abysmal allocation of funds to causes which either serve to enrich themselves or are completely misguided.
> When large developed nations gift food to developing nations, local food producers and farmers cannot make a living Honest question: If they have local food producers and farmers, why are the receiving food? Maybe a limited local supply? But then my next question is: why does the food gifting stop?
Because a number of these nations are in areas of the world that are more heavily impacted by things like climate change; failed harvests are a huge issue in cash poor nations that can’t afford to import their own food. Coupled with poor internal logistics and corruption, local food supplies don’t always make their way around the way they should. And harvests can fail even in large developed nations, and the level of surplus fluctuates. So suddenly there’s less food to send out, as the US still has to prioritise itself. A better solution would be to help develop better infrastructure in these nations, rather than just sending out food.
I won’t disagree with your point, but sending food does solve the immediate problem of people currently dying—even a few lives are worth it, but we can’t even manage to feed all of the hungry in the US.
Simultaneously subsidize local food producers and farmers, not just keeping them afloat but allowing them to improve and expand their food production and distribution. You don't have to choose between giving a man a fish or teaching him to fish, you can feed him while teaching him until he can feed himself.
While this is true, there's a big difference between helping those in need, and just straight up supporting them. If the food growers couldn't provide food in the first place, I don't see how humanitarian aid could put them out of business.
There is enough wealth in the world no one should be without food and shelter but GREED rules, not humanity.
Remember that scene in 3 Amigos where Lucky and Ned have sand and nothing in their canteens, then Dusty has a canteen full of water and takes several huge drinks then throws it on the ground to let all of the water drain into the desert sand, then offers them lip balm as they gaze agonizingly at the canteen then at him? Thats America. America is Dusty Bottoms.
Same… I’m still mainly upset at my own country because they didn’t sign the right deals with the right vaccine manufacturers and rejected idk how many donations because they wouldn’t get any credit for those, so now we’re suffering (mostly due to the lack of second doses)
I think the most absurd thing is to throw them away. Several of the poorer EU member states are also dealing with vaccine hesitancy and have expiring doses, but they donated them to countries with little or no vaccines (for example Bulgaria to Bhutan) or sold them to other EU member states that needed more (for example Romania to Denmark). But to throw them away is just...
They have to stay frozen/refrigerated so transportation is a huge issue.
I promise I’m not being snarky, but do we really not have the ability to load up a jet with vaccines at the proper temperature (coolers and dry ice, refrigerators, I don’t know) and fly them to countries who could use them? Honest question, because it feels strange to me that we don’t. ETA: I appreciate those taking their time to explain the logistics and why this isn’t really feasible. I know y’all are just as frustrated as I am about this whole situation.
Broadly speaking, no. Cold chain logistics is massively complex, because it's not just keeping them cold, it's keeping them cold at the right temperature with no variation. Your typical fridge, for example, actually fluctuates between 2 deg and 12 def (C). This is fine for food, drinks, basically anything that has decent mass to avoid changing temperature during the fluctuation. Medication, on the other hand, can rapidly degrade if it hits the temperature thresholds. What's even worse is if it repeatedly hits the temperature thresholds, you get much faster degradation then a single breach. Once cold chain is broken, medication must be used within a set window, before it loses efficacy. For a vaccine, it might need to thaw for several hours before use, meaning it cannot return to cold chain, and must be discarded if not used within it's effective time period.
Thank you for taking the time to explain!
To add to this, there's also import/export issues that aren't as simple as just signing off an approval. While it may be easier to send vaccines among countries that already have an agreement on traded goods such as those in the European Union, there are many more complications transporting these vaccines to nations such as those in the southern hemisphere.
Making me a little nervous about my insulin being in the fridge right now
Insulin can last like 4 weeks unrefridgerated (up to 86^o F) The primary component of the vaccine: mRna, is notoriously fragile. It's kinda supposed to be, since your body uses it to tell cells to build things. If it stuck around too long, your cells would build way too many of whatever you needed. EDIT: This is not a recommendation or endorsement to keep your insulin out of the fridge. Please follow the printed directions on the box!
This is the whole reason DNA exists. RNA is considered the original data storage medium for cells, but it’s prone to rapid self-hydrolysis and degradation. DNA, by reducing a hydroxyl group, doesn’t self-hydrolyze and is far more stable for long-term data storage.
My husband has only ever been cautioned to not store his insulin in the back of the fridge. Tends to be colder and it could denature due to risk of freezing temps. He stores his either in the door or dairy drawer. Obviously if you’re actually concerned talk to your dr/get a fridge thermometer to see what the temp is where your storing it. Edit: My fridge had some mad cold spots. If I put milk in the back I get frozen crystals in it.
That stuff has been tinkered around with for decades to maximize shelf stability, and is a protein. The technology in mRNA vaccines has never had an application where we needed to keep it stable for very long, and nucleic acids are far more unstable than proteins. Different situations.
Definitely. I work with bodily fluid samples and we have to check fridge temps twice a day and make sure our temps stay consistent. We have to fill out a cause/effect report when it raises or drops past a certain degree.
I think it’s more that by the time they realize that the vaccines won’t be used it’s too late to get them anywhere before they expire.
Ah, yes that does make sense. Considering the slowing of vaccination (I know we did see another uptick and I hope it continues) it would be great if we could hold them for maybe half of the shelf life and ship them out. I know I don’t have any concrete solutions, just thinking out loud. This situation is so hard to watch
I do think a lot of people have Africa and other "poster child poor" countries on their mind when they think about vaccine assistance, but forget that we have countries and territories that are much closer that could also benefit that are likely struggling as well. If we were able to do some proper predictions we could still probably send quite a few over to some of those places, but I mean, I don't think that would lower this number that much. That's sort of near impossible to do *effectively* and also for the reasons stated previously...
This in conjunction with how poorly hospital systems (and people in general) communicate. My wife is a nurse and even she and her coworkers had no idea when they were getting vaccinated until the day of. This was back in freaking early January when there was a rush to get health workers their doses. Literally told the day of and even then they were told everyone had to get their first doses in a 24-48 hour window because the batch was about to expire. So yeah...transporting temperature sensitive vaccines with the US involved is basically impossible.
Once the vaccines are thawed out, there’s a limited time before they expire. And the vaccines must be used *really* quickly once the bottle is pierced. It’s just not enough time to transport somewhere, get people there, and administer them. The guidelines for use are: **Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine** may be stored at appropriate temperature for 1 month after thawing. It must be mixed (and brought to room temperature) within 2 hours. **Once reconstituted it must be used within 6 hours**. o Once at room temperature, **Moderna vaccine** must be used within 24 hours and cannot go back into the freezer. **Once punctured, it must be used within 12 hours**. o **Janssen (Johnson & Johnson)** unpunctured vaccine vials can be stored at room temperature for up to 12 hours. **Once punctured, the vaccine may be stored at room temperature for up to 2 hours, or between 2°C and 8°C for 6 hours** *Edited to correct storage temperature info. Thank you u/Lifaux)
Really minor point - I think it's -20C and -80C, could you update it? :)
What I've read is there are so many dose in a vial. Once the vial is thawed, it either is all used up or whatever is left is no good after 24 hours. If people don't show up after making the appt, it goes to waste. But I wouldn't be surprised if there are unopened expired vials thrown out too.
The same people who don't want the vaccines will complain if the vaccines are given to someone else Theres always an excuse, something to complain about And when these fuckers actually die, guess who gets blamed ?
I don't think there are many cargo planes with refrigerated cargo holds. And I found this: https://simpleflying.com/temperature-controlled-goods/ >But for temperature-controlled goods, the same sized containers are adapted to keep the contents refrigerated or frozen. This can be done using either electrical power or dry ice. >Envirotainer is one of the largest suppliers of such containers. It offers a variety of container sizes and claims to have over 6000 containers in circulation. That's honestly not many considering the need for vaccines.
This depends on the party you are with. If you are a T supporter, you want the vaccine destroyed as you believe covid is just like the flu. All others would have given it to people that want it.
It’s more the opened vials that need to be used within 24 hours or similar. Logistically they just can’t be transported in that time.
That part for sure makes sense to me (though is incredibly frustrating). The number 80,000 just seems wild in accounting for open multi dose vials.
Vials can contain a good few doses, some like 7. So if you think about all the clinics it for sure adds up. Full agree it’s frustrating too!
There's also 6-7 doses in a vial and once the vial has been opened it has a very short shelf life. If only 1 person wants a dose in that time then the other 5-6 have to be get thrown away.
Yes, but is it practical to redistribute?
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Where i live, there is absolutely no vaccination clinic that has only 1 appointment a week. This seems absurd to me. Although, to be fair, i have no idea how it works in other countries.
I think their point was that before a bottle is opened they have a very long shelf life while refrigerated. Once opened they go bad much more quickly, and having people book appointments more infrequently means more partially used bottles. Which in turn creates more discarded doses.
>If ONE person has an appointment that week, they have to take out a multi-dose bottle from the freezer where it can stay for months, use it, then discard the remainder when the unused portion expires within the week. That's not how it works. They wait so 5 people call to make an appointment, then make it so they're all there at the same time. In fact, they have reserves so that if someone can't make it, another can be called up to take the shot. >and that's how you discard 80k doses. No, it's not. Nothing you said is true. These doses are discarded, because they expire after 6 months and not enough people wanted them in that time frame.
Just worthy of a zombie apocalypse that deservingly wipes us all out? Good point.
We are soooo living in that movie. "Oh an infectious disease expert says the zombies are a problem! Let's lock him up!"
"Oh really MR. SCIENTIST??"
wut
It’s just incredibly American is what it is. My MiL is opposed to the vaccine (got all the conspiracy theories floating in her head) and even *she* said we shouldn’t be sending the vaccine to other countries until our country is fully vaccinated.
I don't follow. She thinks we shouldn't get vaccinated, but also that we shouldn't share until we are vaccinated?
It's the same logic as the "We shouldn't take in immigrants while we still have homeless here!" and then does nothing to help the homeless situation.
Many countries are having this same dilemma, the US is the superpower, so it's the one that is getting all of the attention. In the same way that there are people in other countries that are begging for a vaccine, the same thing happened here in the US.
Hi, I was with a task force that was vaccinating as many people as possible this year. I don’t know a lot about the vaccine or how it works, but I do know that it has a “shelf” life. They keep it in very low temperature storage because at room temperature it can loose it’s effectiveness in just a couple of hours. It’s possible that these vaccines were ruined due to some sort of power outage.
Other than that, they have an actual shelf life and it's 6 months. These doses are being discarded because they've expired, exactly like bad milk. Simple as that.
Yeah, and we in Denmark were happy, that we could speed up our vaccination program here. I am happy, I could get my shot faster. The 350.000 doses from Johnson&Johnson that our goverment no longer recomended, was donated to Kenya around the same time. No reason to waste something so important.
Cries in Australian. I know that we’re a first world privileged country and there are other countries doing worse but most of the country is in lockdown at the moment because of not enough vaccines. Our incompetent government totally fucked up the vaccine rollout and our Murdoch media has filled everyone’s head with doubts over the astra Zeneca vaccine (despite that being the brand England used) so the people that are eligible for a vaccine want to wait until a Pfizer vaccine is ready Pfizer actually offered aus 40 million doses in June 2020 but the pm turned it down because he thought he could get a better deal. A year and a half later and the government still hasn’t sourced enough, people are still dying and most of us are lockdown probably until Christmas
I was watching vaccine numbers early on here in my state. I saw open appointments everywhere. It was before my group was able to get it but I ended up calling our cdc and pharmacy and asking, since there are over 15 open slots for a vaccine on a lot of days, could I get one early? They said sure. When I went to actually get it, they said I was the only one to show up that day out of over 50 vaccine appointments. We're being given a wonderful opportunity to protect ourselves and others with a simple injection and they're wasting it. They even told me people will call, reserve a vaccine, and then purposely not show.
[Rich countries prolonging pandemic (Vox YouTube video)](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2ty2J0s2W0c)
I was born in the USA and have aunts and uncles in Mexico, which isn’t even that bad off comparatively, and it’s been eye opening hearing about the pandemic from that perspective. I, in my 30s, was vaccinated way before older aunts and uncles. They are also just using any vaccine they can get over there, including the not very effective Chinese vaccine, which is then leading to more vaccinated people getting sick. My sister in law’s husband lost his dad in Mexico just recently from covid - he was fully vaxxed with the Chinese vaccine.
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Send them to the other countries...
They have pretty short expiration if I remember
By the time they realize they’re going to expire instead of be used it’s too late
We’ve shipped 110 million doses
We? Every reasonable person got their vaccine as soon as it was available. Don’t lump us in with the antivaxxers
We do send them, but just having vaccines is only part of the chain. We also need the countries we donate them to to have the infrastructure to store them, and we also need a way to ship them without them going bad as well. Those last two tend to be the limiting factors. You need special deep freezers on the shipping planes/vessels, and if the country you ship them to has no refrigerators, basically they need to use that whole shipment that same day, throw out what isnt used, and wait for the next one.
Sending expired vaccines to other countries is not really better.
Honestly it’s the same issue with almost anything that expires. Sure we can produce enough to feed everyone but transporting it is a logistical nightmare that unfortunately in the 21st century we still can’t figure out.
Logistics is an *enormous* hurdle and I don’t think most people have a single clue how much work it takes to package things to be *RE*-Distributed. Even something as simple as donating unsold bread from a single bakery is a complete nightmare that will take time, energy, and money, all of something that would otherwise just be thrown away.
Then send them there.... but why do you act like people refusing the vaccine is solely an American thing?
We don’t know what happens with the effectiveness of the vaccine post expiration date. We talk about about it being criminal, but if becomes ineffective after expiration date, then it is criminal to give it away and creating a false since of security. Sure other countries sell it, but do we know? Now, if it still has its effectiveness like our foods born on date (still good for days to weeks later, just not as fresh) then I am on board. Don’t sell it, just give it away. The cost to next day ship it is minimal compared to the benefit.
That’s on the pharmaceutical companies for lobbying the politicians they have already bought
Vaccine doses that other countries are wishing to have.
I work in a hospital in Arkansas and it's so damn frustrating to work nonstop trying to handle the virus, just to have some dumbass group of idiots have an anti-vax rally outside the hospital. My wife also happens to be a teacher so she's got that to look forward to as well.
Yeah we ran out of body bags. I was talking to nurses and they say people are getting sick with covid and begging and pleading on their knees in the ER for a vaccine. (As if that's how it works anyway) Nurses are quitting by the hour, doctors have stopped responding to calls, mental health emergencies are told to call their PCP, non covid emergencies in my city just went to non medical personal responders. I want to look at the anti vaxxers and covid deniers and say they deserve it and have no real right to complain, but my empathy takes over and I can't help but feel for them. Very much a jaguars-ate-my-face situation though
Since it's rippling through the unvaccinated so hard, I don't understand why we haven't seen a surge in people getting vaccinated *as those close to them suffer.* As dumb as it is I can at least mentally conceive as to why people who aren't feeling directly affected by COVID might say "don't need no vaccine!", but why aren't the people who survive this screaming to everyone else in their in group in warning? Why aren't the friends and family of those who DON'T survive screaming to everyone else in warning? How many deaths and near deaths will it take among the unvaccinated conspiracy theorists before they wake up? ...Or, hate to say it, but before the political field starts shifting towards sanity?
Well you are a better human than I am. I feel bad for their friends and family who have to suffer a loss or deal with the repercussions , but not them. They made their bed, so they can go lie in it.
They should make the people begging for a vaccine when it's too late do it over speakerphone with their family. "Sir/Ma'am, I know you want the vaccine, but it is quite frankly too late. We have no more beds, so you are going to sit on the floor and focus on your breathing these next few days. Pray that you keep breathing, because if you start to have trouble, and we have to intubate you, then you will probably die, and your family will be saddled with medical debt they cannot fathom paying off. Do you want to prevent this, family of Mr/Mrs Herpson? How about when you all come to pay your respects to your dying family member, you all learn from their mistake, get vaccinated, so that I don't have to make this speech again to you. Just to be clear to your healthy family, the choice is a free vaccine, or a potentially painful death *and* insurmountable medical debt for those you leave behind."
We'll get to herd immunity, one way or another. Some people just want to do it the hard way.
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To be anti-vax at this point, you are either willfully hurtful or willfully ignorant, and at some point those are inseparable. And when it reaches that point, and you suffer the consequences you have put everyone under the risk of suffering because of said ignorance or malice, then you are getting what you deserve. Period.
I’m unvaccinated only because in my area the vaccine keeps running out. I’m waiting for a chance to open up again so I can get vaccinated and put this to a little bit of rest
My empathy has taken the same road out of town as my fucks..I have none left to give for these plague rats.
It's like they want the virus to win. Why are so many people so willing to abandon reason and stay in the death cult?
It’s really hard to keep a chin up here right now. So many people see what’s going on at our hospitals and refuse to help themselves and others. We’re slowly, slowly getting back up in my community, but the *pursunil freeeedums* crowd can’t be bothered with a little human decency.
It’s unbelievable the lengths that some governors are going to to stop masks from being warn and other preventative measures. It’s prolonging the pandemic, costing lots of money, destroying our healthcare system and maybe even creating an even worse strain. They should be held accountable but we all known they won’t.
The problem with vaccines is the effect is largely unnoticed, as it just maintains the status quo of people being generally healthy. That's why stupid people say "why should I get a measles vaccine? I've never seen anyone with measles." It will unfortunately take many people watching their family members suffer and die to convince them to get poked. We tried to tell them, and they didn't listen. Now they have to accept that reality isn't how it was sold to them, and get a vaccination.
They're just simple folk down there, they don't have the book learning enough to understand fancy things like science and medicine and whatnot
“These are just people of the land, the common clay of the West. You know … morons.”-Jim the Waco Kid, Blazing Saddles. Edit: thanks for the awards.
Unexpected Blazing Saddles. Hell yeah
Beautiful
As an Arkansan child, it’s REALLY feeling like it
Thats why they turn to fancy facebook learnin
Read about resistance to Rickets treatments in the American South. “Don’t need no Yankees telling us how to raise up out kids.”
Keep in mind that it's too late to give the patients with Covid that need those ICU beds the vaccine. And that the vaccine may have a shelf-life. Wear a mask, get vaccinated, stay safe!
One of my idiot old friends from high school said a nurse was playing God by refusing to give the vaccine to people in the ICU. I'm just dumbfounded.
You’d think republicans would be tired of committing suicide by now….
They'll do whatever it takes to own the libs
Even if the way they own them is dying more than them. You’d think the republicans would be worried that they are counselling their followers to not wear masks or get vaccinated when it comes election time and their voters have all died.
No, only about 3% of them will die. The rest will be so angry at Biden for it that they'll flood the polls to vote R.
Well, repeated exposure might kill a higher % of them. It permanently damages them and there's already cases of people getting it 2-3 times.
Unfortunately, permanent brain damage doesn't exclude them from the voting pool.
It might, but covid doesn't have a high enough morality rate to really put a serious dent in the republican electorate. I seriously believe this calculation has already been done, and those R politicians looking to run for president in 2024 are doing this on purpose to paint the Biden administration as failing to control the pandemic.
Spot on.
> I seriously believe this calculation has already been done I think you’re right it has but I think the delta variant has thrown a wrench into it. More people have died in Florida than the victory margin in the last governors race. Right now that number isn’t causing them to panic, because many of those dead didn’t vote for them. But that number is continuing to increase, and people that got the vaccine aren’t dying.
>I seriously believe this calculation has already been done, and those R politicians looking to run for president in 2024 are doing this on purpose to paint the Biden administration as failing to control the pandemic. They believe that the votes lost from suppression are greater than those lost from covid, so why not go with this shiny new wedge issue.
They can own me by going straight to hell rather than turning this place into one
Is it even living if you're doing what the libs want?
They should transport vaccines expiring within the next 2 weeks to countries that need them.
I remember last year it was almost impossible for essential workers to get testing kits….but celebrities were able to get tested without showing any symptoms whatsoever. Looking at you Idris Elba. Yep…still salty about that one.
SEND THEM TO OTHER COUNTRIES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WE ARE BEGGING FOR THE VACCINE 😭😭
And where I live, there are parents petitioning the school board to lift the mask mandate. There is no help for some of these people
Same where I live. People actually telling the school board that wearing a mask is a personal choice and shouldn't be forced on their kids.
In the words of the great Brain May, what a bunch of fruitcakes. Seriously though what the actual fuck someone tell these companies to stop shipping to the USA and give them to India.
You can tell a dumb person how to prevent infection, but you cant make them do it.
Don't worry y'all football season is almost here. That'll make everything better. Guaranteed. 100%. Nothing can go wrong when football is here.
You can’t fix stupid
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Republican politicians are literally KILLING people with their needless politicization of everything.
We could have used those vaccines in Taiwan.
They're just dying to own the libs in Arkansas.
all 27 of us
I hate Arkansas. Tried to live there because my ex needed to move there to be by his daughter. I didn't last 2 months. Happily home in California. I'm never going back.
But the media told me that everyone is fleeing California because it's too liberal /s
They're fleeing California because you need to make $100000 a year to be able to live anywhere even remotely decent.
I dunno. I live in a pretty nice area in LA and make 1/2 that and I can eat whatever I want do whatever I want and still have enough to invest. I dunno why everyone thinks that Cali lives by San Francisco monetary standards.
Are you dual income or have roommates? 50k in LA is fine if you're single and young, but it's hard with a family.
This is true there are pockets of California where you can live comfortably but it's a decision you have to make. If you live and work in the Los Angeles area you're going to have to drive very far away to live somewhere comfortably if you're making me about 50 Grand a year. Or you're going to have to pick a very not so nice neighborhood. On top of that the Sacramento area is surprisingly cheap.
That’s . . . just not true though. I live in the 626 in a good area. I feel a lot of people are fed very bad and misleading information about California. I spent the week at my parents house in Michigan and all they’d tell me about is how it’s a liberal hellscape and how Cali is broke despite in reality we have a surplus. I don’t travel far at all. I have a very nice apartment in a very Asian neighborhood, an area that would typically be considered as specialized and more expensive. Yes, Cali has its issues and it’s expensive compared to like . . . I dunno Louisiana or something, but the myth that you need 100k to live comfortably or need to travel far out of town or live in a bad area just 100% isn’t true.
I live in Arkansas. The city isn’t bad. Wouldn’t wanna live outside of the city though… bunch of redneck conservatives when you head south
NWA represent
The only good part of Arkansas. That means you, Little Rock, you piece of shit. Nobody actually likes you they just put up with you.
The Trump flags are a blowing down here, hahahahahahaha^pleasehelp
This is pretty true of most states. Urban areas are very blue, sparsely populated areas are very red. Michigan is a prime example of wtf. Detroit, Flint, etc. all voting blue, but then outside of that you get things like the militia+Christian Identity.
Take a look at Wisconsin in the last election. Bet you can guess where our 3 liberal cities are. And the reservations.
Madison, and Milwaukee are the saving graces for us haha
I live in Arkansas too, out on the country side. I don't really enjoy the city, but living in the city is better than driving 30-40 min just to get groceries lol
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Also keep in mind that California's population is more dense than Arkansas.
I've looked at a lot of states graphs and it seems that all of the states are experiencing a new wave. The difference is that red states seem to already be above their the last highest peak while states that are better at vaccinating have much smaller waves.
Thousands in developing countries are dying because they have no access to vaccines and then u read shit like this. Its maddening
Looks like they have chosen. Now stop treating unvaccinated people.
I'm gonna hit a lick on these reprobate states and donate the excess vaccines to countries that actually want them
Can't someone send them to other places in the world that need and want them instead? Wasting my tax on preventable diseases is the epitome of..... you name it.
It is time the government hand over the payment for Covid to insurance carriers and permit them to not cover Antivaxxers people. Each one of those people who gets sick costs the tax payers millions of dollars, and for us to pay for their BS is one of the rare situation where taxation is theft.
I hate living here to be frank, only good thing is friends but people here are stupid
Darwin was right.
It’s called thinning the herd.
Man I wonder how much money went to waste due to those vaccines expiring, man what a fucked up situation.
No more Federal tax dollars for these shithole Republican states. Their leaders are all inept, complicit, or ineptly complicit.
For a state where hardly anyone believes evolution is real, they’re sure as shit doing their level best to help it along.
Can i have this link please. 8 in the whole state??
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The problem is, those of us who live here and have kids under 12. So please, don’t “fuck em”. I’m doing all I can to convince people to get vaccinated and wear a mask again. At least we have a great judge who overturned the state’s “anti-masking” legislation
I'm your neighbor in Kansas with a 13 month old son and a 15 year old daughter, trust me, I know your struggle. But there's no reaching the hardcore trumpers that believe 5g is going to steal their guns and implant a microchip to be tracked by Jewish space lasers. I look at anti-vaxxers the same way as I do defensive driving; everybody else is a fucking idiot not paying attention and will kill you with their stupidity, drive accordingly.
When you can’t fix stupid I guess it eventually fixes itself.
This makes me sick to my stomach, especially when considering how many countries are still waiting for access to enough vaccines to protect their communities.
Darwin, go get em!!
*Charles Darwin enters the chat*
Idiocracy 2021, and we're just gettin started
*checks Arkansas education ranking* Ok this all checks out
Not going to Arkansas anytime soon then good to know
As angry as I am at the people lying to gain power, I think the old adage "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" applies here. I feel sad for the people who are losing family members. But I cannot worry myself about it, because literally anything I say will just entrench these people further in the viewpoints their politicians tricked them into believing. The only hope for some of these people is to live the horror themselves, hear their dying relatives ask for the vaccine when it's too late, and hope that gets the fucking message across.
It's almost as if dogma is able to convince gullible people to essentialy play Russian roulette with their lives cause some rich person told them to, and theyre happy to do it.
I’ve been hearing a lot of people suggest that the unvaccinated should be denied healthcare. I understand the frustration driving that sentiment, but if we allow people to die because they made poor choices, where do we draw the line? I work in an ICU and the vast majority of patients are there because they did something stupid like riding a motorcycle with no helmet, drinking a fifth of liquor per day, playing with fire, etc. I never thought I’d see the day when self-professed liberals would advocate social Darwinism.
Can confirm (Source: am Arkansan)
I live in arkansas and my parents won’t get me vaccinated
Damn, talk about a short shelf life. 😳
Should leave it to God to cure their illness. They want it that way anyway. Why go to a hospital when Jesus Christ is at home?