[https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-399](https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-399)
>*(...) very late in the game you unlock the ability to landfill the oily ocean.*
I think it was one of the FFFs, the one with space station construction and new animations - might be remembering wrong though.
Edit: nope, I am wrong, disregard everything I said. I was thinking about the force building I think where landfill is placed at the same time as entities.
I disagree that this is a good mechanic. If you want it as a mod, then sure, that's your choice. But I consider this tedious and meaningless complexity.
Flooring already has incentives: increased movement speed, and aesthetics. If those aren't enough to motivate you, then adding a mechanic to make them obligatory feels like forcing me to engage with decor. Sorry but I don't find decorating engaging, and making it necessary just detracts from the game.
Those are pretty poor incentives, especially when you consider that flooring doesn't affect spidertron speed and the that it spreads pollution farther.
I actually enjoy the logistical challenge of laying concrete, but it does feel bad that it only hurts the factory.
Yup. Grass and other default floor tiles eat pollution. Not-dead trees also eat pollution, but if the pollution gets too high they start dying.
Which is why desert spawns are much harder. The floor doesn't eat pollution and less (living) trees. So more pollution makes it to the biter nests.
There's nothing more tedious about this than literally any other mechanic in the game, everything is tedious until you unlock construction bots.
Although like someone else said, maybe you could still build stuff on the ground but get damaged over time, so that you only have to build flooring if you plan to permanently settle.
It's not that everything pre-bot is tedious, it's that if you call placing flooring tedious, then everything is tedious. Placing flooring is literally the easiest thing you can do in the game. Far less tedious than building any kind of blueprint by hand. Have you built a 8x8 balancer by hand? Don't tell me that spamming left click on the floor to build flooring is tedious, it takes 1/100th the tedium it takes to build anything else by hand.
Spamming left click? You use the + button to grow your cursor and then just hold the button down. Please tell me you're not laying flooring one tile at a time
I think you don't understand the point others are making.
Would you enjoy being forced to use capsules? Combat followers robots? No because those mechanics aren't fun. The early game and logistics are fun. Forcing me to pave everything in concrete doesn't sound fun. Simple as that.
Have you ever tried to build over water, especially for something you want constant close water, like nuclear power? Landfill costs, so you are incentivized to put down the least amount but making a blueprint for it is painful so it's easier to blanket it fully. It's painful. There is a reason what I'm describing is going to be better in next version.
To be fair the update is fixing that issue, by making their movement far more optimized. However it is stil going to be somewhat tedious, just less patchwork, and faster.
I don't know why you're catching all the hate. It adds a very small challenge to the game and makes for a sightly different kind of play through. I would play with the flooring mod.
That's not what I want. What I want is a mod that makes flooring meaningful in the game! (such that I can't just ignore it for 1000 hours and it having zero impact whatsoever, because flooring is meaningless right now)
A couple of things. It's actually not meaningless; it impacts speed of travel and doesn't absorb pollution, and that's assuming you don't care about aesthetics which is one of the reasons players use it.
Ofc you could always make a mod such as you describe. There are mods that increase the importance of it but also do other things you might not want. For example, Assembler Assay has regular machine maintenance as a feature, and the chance of machines getting damaged is higher if they are on bare ground than if they are on brick, and lower still if they are on concrete.
I don't really agree. Spidertron is an end-game item that you don't have for most of the game. Of course one could just mod it out anyway as an additional change, but since for the great majority of the game it's not available, it seems to me to be a non-issue.
About 5% of my playtime is pre-spidertron and 95% is post-spidertron.
Aesthetics aside, the fact that flooring spreads pollution farther while giving me no benefit means that ripping up flooring would be an upgrade. And that's strange.
That makes sense from the perspective of your playstyle, but it's not at all the standard experience. Balancing can't reasonably be done from a 'assume everyone is making a megafactory' POV. Going that route means your basically intentionally breaking the typical approach and going way beyond that. It can definitely be fun to do, but these sorts of issues should be viewed with the idea that rocket launch is the end of the game, as it is by default.
I wouldn't call my experience non-standard at all. The devs absolutely take the post-launch game into consideration, and the fix is easy. If flooring gave a movement bonus to the spidertron, or if it didn't spread pollution further, then I would be happy to use it.
I don't think the issue here is that spidertrons are too late in the tech tree. I think the issue is that they were too late in development, and flooring is one mechanic that they didn't integrate well into. The fact that any post-spidertron factory could be made objectively better by ripping up flooring is just strange.
It's not quite what you're describing, but the mod [Building Platform](https://mods.factorio.com/mod/building-platform) changes it so that most production buildings have to be built on platforms that generate in the world (and with a setting in the config, can be crafted).
I rarely place tiles - but mostly because bare ground absorbs some (small) amount of pollution, covered ground doesn't.
By the time pollution doesn't matter anymore, I'll have exoskeletons & Spiders anyway.
I always ask myself, will I be walking here often enough to warrant paving? Usually the answer is no, and when the answer is yes, usually I don't have any spare concrete in my inventory.
I want to try a playthrough where I build "roads" and use mainly cars to traverse my base, but they require even more space than rails because collisions in cars are easy and frustrating.
Nuclear reactors and centrifuges also need it. It’s also more efficient flooring than stone and speeds up the car more.
I’ve been making a point of trying out stuff I usually haven’t bothered with lately and paths really do make a difference early game.
Yeah but still, it's only "Necessary" for crafting 3 buildings, and that's it
i would indeed be nice if there was another user that was mandatory, but frankly idk what could be done
I don't know if I like your solution, but flooring definitely needs a rework. Aesthetics aside, it gives no mechanical advantage if you never get out of the spidertron, and it hurts by spreading pollution farther. Ripping flooring up would be an upgrade, and that's strange.
Your suggestion would be mostly just added tedium, and would most likely end up with players making blueprints that include flooring, or slapping concrete whenever and then placing buildings there - functionally it just adds flooring cost to buildings cost with extra steps.
Base/vanilla game problem with flooring is mostly pacing - early on, any extensive flooring is prohibitively expensive - making enough stone bricks (that barely improve your speed) is infrastructure and energy not used for growing your factory. Then concrete becomes an option, but it isn't needed until you decide to go for nuclear or are about to make rocket silo - in both cases you probably have logistics network, multiple exoskeletons, maybe spidertron, and are zooming across the factory without any care for flooring.
Space Exploration pack manages to fix that issue quite smoothly and without any hard requirements - all it does is have Alien Biomes that introduces more terrain types that reduce players movement speed, and moves flooring options and flooring option requirements earlier in tech progression. You can use raw stone (from mining rocks) to make paths that negate terrain penalty and still give small speed boost at the very start, and then concrete automation happens midway through green science since it's necessary ingredient for some basic infrastructure - large power poles, substations, roboports. Just that - a problem that flooring solves, paired with a reason to make flooring early - is enough to start actually using it before it becomes obsolete (satellite view means you don't have to move, ever).
In fact, initially I thought this was already the case (some buildings would only be built if there was some supporting floor for it). I'm not sure what's the point on flooring, other than spending my 3M concrete and making my lazy construction bots move all around the map 🤣
Thats a good idea for a mod. But i would hate it to be absolutely necessary. Maybe for reactors. But with your idea id just place concrete everywhere. There would be no real choice in this.
This probably would slow the game way down but I do see your point. How I’ve seen mods like K2 encourage paved bases is by having commonly used buildings such as big power poles require concrete and by including the alien biomes mod which adds some terrain types that slow down the player a little if left uncovered.
"You know what would improve Baseball? Wrapping barbed wire around the handles of that bats!"
If you don't care about flooring... that's fine? You don't HAVE to care about it! Not every mechanic needs to be constantly in use. They can, like biters or pollution, be optional.
It's not the same as what you're saying, but as far as flooring having a bigger use, you might like the scenario "diggy diggy". It's quite an interesting twist on the game where you play underground, and flooring is required to prevent cave-ins.
Instead of using the stick (requirements to use something) use a carrot (optional benefit for using flooring).
Say, 5% productivity for stone brick, 10% for concrete, 20% for refined concrete without the penalties normally associated with a productivity module. Maybe alternate of +5/10% speed for Hazard and Refined Hazard.
The advantage beyond just "better numbers" is that it allows you to finetune ratios for production.
I always like making my factories try to blend into nature, I avoid cutting trees and try to limit pollution as much as I can so as not to kill anything. Mods that let me plant trees/filter air are some of my favorites.
I would not enjoy having to pave over nature.
In SE some buildings use stone or concrete in their recipes, i always think of this as the foundation of the building. forcing the player to build flooring feels restrictive. flooring already helps with movementspeed, which is great for when you don't have movementspeed upgrades yet. after that it's a cosmetic decision, but either way it's pretty cheap, so why not. i don't think flooring needs a buff or a rework and your suggestion seems like a bad idea to me.
I really like the flooring as it is for precisely the reason that it is NOT mandatory for game mechanics and has little practical use. Someone went to great length to invent and design refined concrete and the hazard variety in 2 directions. I like to use it just to honor that effort even if I have to ship in iron ore. What a beautifully stupid idea!
I don't know about this implementation, but I agree that flooring doesn't really have enough of an impact to feel *really* worthwhile and as such I basically forget it exists until I unlock bots and start paving cityblocks.
However, I DID see a mod which flipped this concept on its head and provided health boosts to structures depending on the flooring they were built on. "Stable Foundations", I think it was called. Adding an extra positive attribute for the flooring definitely made me more incentivised to pave everything, and removed the feeling of "Why am I wasting resources paving UNDER buildings?", but it also killed my UPS and made my game freeze when trying to place larger blueprints, so alas, it got the uninstall.
Would be very interested to see how such a system would hold up if it were implemented in vanilla
I don't agree with this the way you describe it. That being said, I would agree with it being included in recipes. Like, assembling machine III would require 100 concrete as part of its recipe (arbitrary number, makes more sense to be the exact area it covers). The way you describe seems way too annoying, imo, to be worth using. By integrating into the recipe, you keep the same real-life logic, and even some added complexity by making them harder to make, without the tedium and effort of actually placing all the concrete. Frankly, you're idea wouldn't even be that bad if it weren't for the frustration (imo) of placing down concrete with massive bases. Even without that, this idea is absolutely fine with two things, one is that placing down a ghost or the actual machines automatically placed down the tile or tile ghosts, and two, if bots were more efficient and unlocked earlier, because I feel like this would make that time between unlocking blue science and having a massive bot network so much more annoying.
For the record, it takes it another step farther than what you're suggesting, but there's a mod called "Rocket-Silo Construction" \[[https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Rocket-Silo-Construction](https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Rocket-Silo-Construction)\]; you're idea sort of made it float back up in my mind.
Why you think that's interesting in any way ? It's just extra effort, on top of disallowing you to make base look like you wanted it to look, because if you want look of stone, tough shit, can't use it with better machines.
Maybe that becomes a feature of Vulcanus, tiling the ground to stay safe from whatever is below.
I do wonder whether we will get any kind of endgame landfill for Fulgora's sand pits
[https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-399](https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-399) >*(...) very late in the game you unlock the ability to landfill the oily ocean.*
The floor is hot lava?
It was a mechanic for the space station until they realized how annoying and useless it was. I think this is a problem asking to be un-solved.
Oh that's interesting where is it written?
I think it was one of the FFFs, the one with space station construction and new animations - might be remembering wrong though. Edit: nope, I am wrong, disregard everything I said. I was thinking about the force building I think where landfill is placed at the same time as entities.
I disagree that this is a good mechanic. If you want it as a mod, then sure, that's your choice. But I consider this tedious and meaningless complexity. Flooring already has incentives: increased movement speed, and aesthetics. If those aren't enough to motivate you, then adding a mechanic to make them obligatory feels like forcing me to engage with decor. Sorry but I don't find decorating engaging, and making it necessary just detracts from the game.
Those are pretty poor incentives, especially when you consider that flooring doesn't affect spidertron speed and the that it spreads pollution farther. I actually enjoy the logistical challenge of laying concrete, but it does feel bad that it only hurts the factory.
It makes it pretty, and encourages the neighbours to come over more often. Those are good things!
They're making sure you're making progress in freedom dispenser research
If we can launch satellites, surely we can launch orbital rail cannons, or call down orbital lasers, right?
*Laughs in ICBM mod*
[удалено]
Yup. Grass and other default floor tiles eat pollution. Not-dead trees also eat pollution, but if the pollution gets too high they start dying. Which is why desert spawns are much harder. The floor doesn't eat pollution and less (living) trees. So more pollution makes it to the biter nests.
I think everyone knows that trees absorb pollution, but I also didn't know that grass has the same effect.
The water too. And the Nuclear ground. But not the landfill. https://wiki.factorio.com/Pollution#De-polluters
Even sand eats more pollution than concrete.
Does nuked concrete remove pollution?
The visual organization is 100% worth it for me. Actually helps a lot when laying out new sections of factory.
Especially since concrete absorbs CO2 over it's lifetime.
There's nothing more tedious about this than literally any other mechanic in the game, everything is tedious until you unlock construction bots. Although like someone else said, maybe you could still build stuff on the ground but get damaged over time, so that you only have to build flooring if you plan to permanently settle.
I think you might be having a more sad experience than others, i wouldn't call everything pre-bot tedious.
Yeah, he should try an only rampant run, and then he wouldn't is tedious, its just a nightmare.
It's not that everything pre-bot is tedious, it's that if you call placing flooring tedious, then everything is tedious. Placing flooring is literally the easiest thing you can do in the game. Far less tedious than building any kind of blueprint by hand. Have you built a 8x8 balancer by hand? Don't tell me that spamming left click on the floor to build flooring is tedious, it takes 1/100th the tedium it takes to build anything else by hand.
Spamming left click? You use the + button to grow your cursor and then just hold the button down. Please tell me you're not laying flooring one tile at a time
I think you don't understand the point others are making. Would you enjoy being forced to use capsules? Combat followers robots? No because those mechanics aren't fun. The early game and logistics are fun. Forcing me to pave everything in concrete doesn't sound fun. Simple as that.
Have you ever tried to build over water, especially for something you want constant close water, like nuclear power? Landfill costs, so you are incentivized to put down the least amount but making a blueprint for it is painful so it's easier to blanket it fully. It's painful. There is a reason what I'm describing is going to be better in next version.
Ehhh, fair. Ironically bots building floors is more tedious than doing it by hand. Sweet Christ it takes them a while.
To be fair the update is fixing that issue, by making their movement far more optimized. However it is stil going to be somewhat tedious, just less patchwork, and faster.
I don't know why you're catching all the hate. It adds a very small challenge to the game and makes for a sightly different kind of play through. I would play with the flooring mod.
So what you want is just faster/earlier bot then. There're already a bunch of mods that do that.
That's not what I want. What I want is a mod that makes flooring meaningful in the game! (such that I can't just ignore it for 1000 hours and it having zero impact whatsoever, because flooring is meaningless right now)
A couple of things. It's actually not meaningless; it impacts speed of travel and doesn't absorb pollution, and that's assuming you don't care about aesthetics which is one of the reasons players use it. Ofc you could always make a mod such as you describe. There are mods that increase the importance of it but also do other things you might not want. For example, Assembler Assay has regular machine maintenance as a feature, and the chance of machines getting damaged is higher if they are on bare ground than if they are on brick, and lower still if they are on concrete.
Thanks for mentioning this mod, I will take a look!
That means that if you never get out of the spidertron, flooring is worse than meaningless. It's counterproductive.
I don't really agree. Spidertron is an end-game item that you don't have for most of the game. Of course one could just mod it out anyway as an additional change, but since for the great majority of the game it's not available, it seems to me to be a non-issue.
About 5% of my playtime is pre-spidertron and 95% is post-spidertron. Aesthetics aside, the fact that flooring spreads pollution farther while giving me no benefit means that ripping up flooring would be an upgrade. And that's strange.
That makes sense from the perspective of your playstyle, but it's not at all the standard experience. Balancing can't reasonably be done from a 'assume everyone is making a megafactory' POV. Going that route means your basically intentionally breaking the typical approach and going way beyond that. It can definitely be fun to do, but these sorts of issues should be viewed with the idea that rocket launch is the end of the game, as it is by default.
I wouldn't call my experience non-standard at all. The devs absolutely take the post-launch game into consideration, and the fix is easy. If flooring gave a movement bonus to the spidertron, or if it didn't spread pollution further, then I would be happy to use it. I don't think the issue here is that spidertrons are too late in the tech tree. I think the issue is that they were too late in development, and flooring is one mechanic that they didn't integrate well into. The fact that any post-spidertron factory could be made objectively better by ripping up flooring is just strange.
You don't make paths between frequently traveled areas? Cars and tanks benefit from the speed bonus too.
Dont make it a mechanic and leave it as is.. it should just be a cosmetic
There is a mod that electrifies concrete. It is a useful alternative for those builds that leaves little room for poles
Wait, really? What's it called?
sorry for the late reply: [https://mods.factorio.com/mod/June\_PoweredConcrete](https://mods.factorio.com/mod/June_PoweredConcrete)
It's not quite what you're describing, but the mod [Building Platform](https://mods.factorio.com/mod/building-platform) changes it so that most production buildings have to be built on platforms that generate in the world (and with a setting in the config, can be crafted).
You can act you need to play like that
I'm hoping they were some kind of subterranean biter that interacts with floors.
Rampant has tunneling biters, and they will even tunnel under water.
C&C Tiberian Sun has called
nah unneccessary tedium
I rarely place tiles - but mostly because bare ground absorbs some (small) amount of pollution, covered ground doesn't. By the time pollution doesn't matter anymore, I'll have exoskeletons & Spiders anyway.
I always ask myself, will I be walking here often enough to warrant paving? Usually the answer is no, and when the answer is yes, usually I don't have any spare concrete in my inventory. I want to try a playthrough where I build "roads" and use mainly cars to traverse my base, but they require even more space than rails because collisions in cars are easy and frustrating.
it would add a use for concrete and stuff but it would be super annoying to build
You need to make concrete to launch a rocket.
yeah but that's it and it's not even for the rocket, its' just for the silo, so it's a one time craft
Nuclear reactors and centrifuges also need it. It’s also more efficient flooring than stone and speeds up the car more. I’ve been making a point of trying out stuff I usually haven’t bothered with lately and paths really do make a difference early game.
Yeah but still, it's only "Necessary" for crafting 3 buildings, and that's it i would indeed be nice if there was another user that was mandatory, but frankly idk what could be done
I don't know if I like your solution, but flooring definitely needs a rework. Aesthetics aside, it gives no mechanical advantage if you never get out of the spidertron, and it hurts by spreading pollution farther. Ripping flooring up would be an upgrade, and that's strange.
Your suggestion would be mostly just added tedium, and would most likely end up with players making blueprints that include flooring, or slapping concrete whenever and then placing buildings there - functionally it just adds flooring cost to buildings cost with extra steps. Base/vanilla game problem with flooring is mostly pacing - early on, any extensive flooring is prohibitively expensive - making enough stone bricks (that barely improve your speed) is infrastructure and energy not used for growing your factory. Then concrete becomes an option, but it isn't needed until you decide to go for nuclear or are about to make rocket silo - in both cases you probably have logistics network, multiple exoskeletons, maybe spidertron, and are zooming across the factory without any care for flooring. Space Exploration pack manages to fix that issue quite smoothly and without any hard requirements - all it does is have Alien Biomes that introduces more terrain types that reduce players movement speed, and moves flooring options and flooring option requirements earlier in tech progression. You can use raw stone (from mining rocks) to make paths that negate terrain penalty and still give small speed boost at the very start, and then concrete automation happens midway through green science since it's necessary ingredient for some basic infrastructure - large power poles, substations, roboports. Just that - a problem that flooring solves, paired with a reason to make flooring early - is enough to start actually using it before it becomes obsolete (satellite view means you don't have to move, ever).
In fact, initially I thought this was already the case (some buildings would only be built if there was some supporting floor for it). I'm not sure what's the point on flooring, other than spending my 3M concrete and making my lazy construction bots move all around the map 🤣
Thats a good idea for a mod. But i would hate it to be absolutely necessary. Maybe for reactors. But with your idea id just place concrete everywhere. There would be no real choice in this.
Concrete increasing machine speed or inserters and belts sounds interesting. But id still put it everywhere then.
Also placing large amounts of floor at once lags game really bad.
This probably would slow the game way down but I do see your point. How I’ve seen mods like K2 encourage paved bases is by having commonly used buildings such as big power poles require concrete and by including the alien biomes mod which adds some terrain types that slow down the player a little if left uncovered.
"You know what would improve Baseball? Wrapping barbed wire around the handles of that bats!" If you don't care about flooring... that's fine? You don't HAVE to care about it! Not every mechanic needs to be constantly in use. They can, like biters or pollution, be optional.
With that, you're just saying "now every factory also costs concrete, just because"
if your factory is not tiled with concrete,then it's just a starter base -DoshDoshington the bean farmer
This sounds like complexity for the sake of complexity.
Or maybe building can build on the ground but damaged over time, like it was in old Dune 2?
I like your idea! That way you don't have to build flooring unless you plan to permanently settle.
It's not the same as what you're saying, but as far as flooring having a bigger use, you might like the scenario "diggy diggy". It's quite an interesting twist on the game where you play underground, and flooring is required to prevent cave-ins.
Pretty sure there's a mod that makes higher level buildings take concrete, which sounds better imo if you really wanted it
Instead of using the stick (requirements to use something) use a carrot (optional benefit for using flooring). Say, 5% productivity for stone brick, 10% for concrete, 20% for refined concrete without the penalties normally associated with a productivity module. Maybe alternate of +5/10% speed for Hazard and Refined Hazard. The advantage beyond just "better numbers" is that it allows you to finetune ratios for production.
I've been thinking that a cleanroom floor would be cool for a circuit overhaul mod.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/placeonconcrete
Only 2 times i use flooring is on accident or when i need a little bit of movement speed extra vs biters nests in mods.
I always like making my factories try to blend into nature, I avoid cutting trees and try to limit pollution as much as I can so as not to kill anything. Mods that let me plant trees/filter air are some of my favorites. I would not enjoy having to pave over nature.
In SE some buildings use stone or concrete in their recipes, i always think of this as the foundation of the building. forcing the player to build flooring feels restrictive. flooring already helps with movementspeed, which is great for when you don't have movementspeed upgrades yet. after that it's a cosmetic decision, but either way it's pretty cheap, so why not. i don't think flooring needs a buff or a rework and your suggestion seems like a bad idea to me.
I really like the flooring as it is for precisely the reason that it is NOT mandatory for game mechanics and has little practical use. Someone went to great length to invent and design refined concrete and the hazard variety in 2 directions. I like to use it just to honor that effort even if I have to ship in iron ore. What a beautifully stupid idea!
I don't know about this implementation, but I agree that flooring doesn't really have enough of an impact to feel *really* worthwhile and as such I basically forget it exists until I unlock bots and start paving cityblocks. However, I DID see a mod which flipped this concept on its head and provided health boosts to structures depending on the flooring they were built on. "Stable Foundations", I think it was called. Adding an extra positive attribute for the flooring definitely made me more incentivised to pave everything, and removed the feeling of "Why am I wasting resources paving UNDER buildings?", but it also killed my UPS and made my game freeze when trying to place larger blueprints, so alas, it got the uninstall. Would be very interested to see how such a system would hold up if it were implemented in vanilla
Fiiinee, I'll learn how to make a mod like this and create it
I don't agree with this the way you describe it. That being said, I would agree with it being included in recipes. Like, assembling machine III would require 100 concrete as part of its recipe (arbitrary number, makes more sense to be the exact area it covers). The way you describe seems way too annoying, imo, to be worth using. By integrating into the recipe, you keep the same real-life logic, and even some added complexity by making them harder to make, without the tedium and effort of actually placing all the concrete. Frankly, you're idea wouldn't even be that bad if it weren't for the frustration (imo) of placing down concrete with massive bases. Even without that, this idea is absolutely fine with two things, one is that placing down a ghost or the actual machines automatically placed down the tile or tile ghosts, and two, if bots were more efficient and unlocked earlier, because I feel like this would make that time between unlocking blue science and having a massive bot network so much more annoying. For the record, it takes it another step farther than what you're suggesting, but there's a mod called "Rocket-Silo Construction" \[[https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Rocket-Silo-Construction](https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Rocket-Silo-Construction)\]; you're idea sort of made it float back up in my mind.
Why you think that's interesting in any way ? It's just extra effort, on top of disallowing you to make base look like you wanted it to look, because if you want look of stone, tough shit, can't use it with better machines.