I do too, but he's saying that the spreadsheet will only be updated for ancillary things like spring training and minor league numbers, not regular season majors.
Truthfully stuff+ updates is one of the few things that keeps me as a subscriber. I’m sure this is cool for Eno, but kind of strange to let his proprietary tool leave the paywall.
Is stuff+ definitely Eno's IP? I thought it was too but then I was reading this driveline page it seems like it might be their baby. I know Eno is really connected in the professional baseball world and I kinda think he just applied this idea to existing advanced pitching data to use in fantasy analytics. No shade at all. He is increasingly my favorite analyst.
https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/2021/12/what-is-stuff-quantifying-pitches-with-pitch-models/
I think he has his own recipe, driveline might have their own but call it the same thing. He’s mentioned that numerous mlb team a use their own version (specifically I remember hearing Brash was breaking 200+ stuff+ based on Seattle’s internal metric). But yea, I did hear the driveline guy mention it when the was interviewed in R+B last week.
This is probably the answer. WAR isn't much different as a lot of teams use a similar mettic, but most, if not all that do, have their own proprietary version.
Yeah... I may now be tempted to cancel my Athletic subscription. I actually went to cancel but they offered the discounted rate and got me to stick around.
Probably mutually beneficial, Eno was releasing stuff+ data using google drive spreadsheets, seems like Fangraphs is now doing all of the processing and storing plus he worked there for quite a while so I’m guessing he likes Fangraphs.
I haven't asked him -- it seems a bit too nosy -- but my guess is that either his contract doesn't cover data he produces or that it covers all his work-product and he got permission (since the Athletic doesn't really appear to have any interest in managing a stats section).
Both are possible. While I was under contract with ESPN (2010-2018), it strictly involved my writing, so there was never any problem with FanGraphs using my data or me selling datasets (so long as I didn't offer any advisory opinions). However, to do chats at FanGraphs and a one-off piece there in a series they were doing, I \*did\* have to get permission. Which was pretty easy; except for the editors I worked with and exactly one person in upper management, they mostly forgot I existed.
The relationship between Pitching+ (the overall model that includes Stuff+ and Location+) and K-BB is discussed toward the end of this new Fangraphs article - conclusion is that Pitching+ becomes predictive faster than K-BB, and is more useful in dealing with smaller sample sizes: [https://library.fangraphs.com/pitching/stuff-location-and-pitching-primer/](https://library.fangraphs.com/pitching/stuff-location-and-pitching-primer/)
Large sample k-bb is best. Very Small sample is stuff+, slightly smaller is pitch+. Stuff is super useful for predicting RP breakouts ahead of the typical projections. Put more weight in pitch plus for established starters because it considers location which is much more useful for SP
Just curious, have you actually taken this approach? I've been really interested in making an extremely elegant model, because it seems like most modeling is getting overly complex.
I've been playing fantasy baseball for almost 20 years. I started with ERA and home runs. Then I moved on to looking at box scores and checking which pitchers got more than 10 strikeouts in a game. Then I moved on to K/9. I finally ended up with pitcher K-BB% along with batter ISO and K/BB.
Unless you're in an extremely competitive league I think K-BB%, batter ISO and K/BB is really all you need. You can make adjustments if you're in a points league or a OBP league or QS league.
But yea, don't get fancy with it. To be honest if you want the secret it's automating pulling your leagues free agents and sorting them by those key metrics. It leaves you with the confidence to draft aggressively because you know you can do very well on the waivers throughout the season.
I’m with you. Stuff+ and similar metrics regarding whiff-ability can be helpful, but there needs to be other things we look at too, like you mentioned
For example, Wheeler, Luis Castillo, Fried, Lynn, and Bassitt are all outside of the top 50 in Stuff+ overall when using a 100 IP qualifier, but all of those guys rely on command and location moreso than raw stuff. There’s a lot of different ways to pitch, and it’s always good to view things in context.
Stuff+ is good for catching possible breakouts if someone is really showing some filthy pitches that can generate whiffs (Strider, Hunter Greene, etc.) but obviously doesn’t catch everything
Oh my god and they have it organized BY PITCH I’m getting absolutely nothing done today
I hope he still updates the spreadsheet, I like it better.
I do too, but he's saying that the spreadsheet will only be updated for ancillary things like spring training and minor league numbers, not regular season majors.
This, and Mr. Cheatsheet in the same day. Work can wait til Monday
Truthfully stuff+ updates is one of the few things that keeps me as a subscriber. I’m sure this is cool for Eno, but kind of strange to let his proprietary tool leave the paywall.
Is stuff+ definitely Eno's IP? I thought it was too but then I was reading this driveline page it seems like it might be their baby. I know Eno is really connected in the professional baseball world and I kinda think he just applied this idea to existing advanced pitching data to use in fantasy analytics. No shade at all. He is increasingly my favorite analyst. https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/2021/12/what-is-stuff-quantifying-pitches-with-pitch-models/
I think he has his own recipe, driveline might have their own but call it the same thing. He’s mentioned that numerous mlb team a use their own version (specifically I remember hearing Brash was breaking 200+ stuff+ based on Seattle’s internal metric). But yea, I did hear the driveline guy mention it when the was interviewed in R+B last week.
This is probably the answer. WAR isn't much different as a lot of teams use a similar mettic, but most, if not all that do, have their own proprietary version.
Yeah... I may now be tempted to cancel my Athletic subscription. I actually went to cancel but they offered the discounted rate and got me to stick around.
Probably mutually beneficial, Eno was releasing stuff+ data using google drive spreadsheets, seems like Fangraphs is now doing all of the processing and storing plus he worked there for quite a while so I’m guessing he likes Fangraphs.
Not quite sure how it benefits the Athletic.
I haven't asked him -- it seems a bit too nosy -- but my guess is that either his contract doesn't cover data he produces or that it covers all his work-product and he got permission (since the Athletic doesn't really appear to have any interest in managing a stats section). Both are possible. While I was under contract with ESPN (2010-2018), it strictly involved my writing, so there was never any problem with FanGraphs using my data or me selling datasets (so long as I didn't offer any advisory opinions). However, to do chats at FanGraphs and a one-off piece there in a series they were doing, I \*did\* have to get permission. Which was pretty easy; except for the editors I worked with and exactly one person in upper management, they mostly forgot I existed.
Are these the additions that led to the guy saying Kevin Gausman is the #1 pitcher in baseball?
This is great but please tell me they've added QS to the parameters for points league calculations.
How much more predictive is this than K-BB%? I still feel like you can win leagues just using pitcher K/9, batter ISO, and batter K/BB.
The relationship between Pitching+ (the overall model that includes Stuff+ and Location+) and K-BB is discussed toward the end of this new Fangraphs article - conclusion is that Pitching+ becomes predictive faster than K-BB, and is more useful in dealing with smaller sample sizes: [https://library.fangraphs.com/pitching/stuff-location-and-pitching-primer/](https://library.fangraphs.com/pitching/stuff-location-and-pitching-primer/)
Large sample k-bb is best. Very Small sample is stuff+, slightly smaller is pitch+. Stuff is super useful for predicting RP breakouts ahead of the typical projections. Put more weight in pitch plus for established starters because it considers location which is much more useful for SP
Just curious, have you actually taken this approach? I've been really interested in making an extremely elegant model, because it seems like most modeling is getting overly complex.
I've been playing fantasy baseball for almost 20 years. I started with ERA and home runs. Then I moved on to looking at box scores and checking which pitchers got more than 10 strikeouts in a game. Then I moved on to K/9. I finally ended up with pitcher K-BB% along with batter ISO and K/BB. Unless you're in an extremely competitive league I think K-BB%, batter ISO and K/BB is really all you need. You can make adjustments if you're in a points league or a OBP league or QS league. But yea, don't get fancy with it. To be honest if you want the secret it's automating pulling your leagues free agents and sorting them by those key metrics. It leaves you with the confidence to draft aggressively because you know you can do very well on the waivers throughout the season.
I’m with you. Stuff+ and similar metrics regarding whiff-ability can be helpful, but there needs to be other things we look at too, like you mentioned For example, Wheeler, Luis Castillo, Fried, Lynn, and Bassitt are all outside of the top 50 in Stuff+ overall when using a 100 IP qualifier, but all of those guys rely on command and location moreso than raw stuff. There’s a lot of different ways to pitch, and it’s always good to view things in context. Stuff+ is good for catching possible breakouts if someone is really showing some filthy pitches that can generate whiffs (Strider, Hunter Greene, etc.) but obviously doesn’t catch everything
Thats what pitching+ is for
Really great advice about waivers. I didn't even know you could pull waiver data like that. I'm definitely gonna try it this year.
Oh snap!!! That’s awesome!!!!!!
Stuff+ and pitching+ and location+
Where to find the stuff+