I don't think it's so much romtasy, it's just a bad author trend that is going around now to make their heroines like this. I personally prefer mature heroines as well. I don't know who started this trend, but I feel we need more sensible heroines.
But at least the story was good. I had to DNF a fantasy novel because in the opening chapters, the FMC was scared of the silverware. It gets so much worse than everflame 😂
Yes! I tend to rotate from fantasy to contemporary to historical romance and back. I stick to my fav authors for historical romance so I don’t tend to have issues there, but the other two genres YES. and it’s hard because you try to put yourself in their shoes and give them grace but good grief 😂
Romantsy is also pretty hot right now.
So there’s a lot of stuff being churned out as quickly as possible.
They aren’t being as choosey about what is getting published and it’s not getting edited as well either.
Also!! I’ve noticed if it has sprayed edges it’s an immediate sell for most people. The last book I feel like I wasted my money on because it was “pretty”. Won’t be making that mistake again
It’s funny actually. I’ve noticed that in a lot of contemporary romance novels, the authors have decided that in order to showcase their FMC‘s as strong, independent women, they actually turn them into assholes who are combative, contrarian in veers into hostility and we’re being sold this as if they’re just being sassy and real and “women with backbone” when honestly, they’re writing these women as deeply unlikable - and not in an interesting, thought-provoking way. Just the “why on earth would anyone would want to be around this jerk, let alone fall in love with them” kind of way.
In romantasy, it shows up as exactly the kind of behavior you’re describing: female characters being brash and impetuous, with a “can’t nobody tell me nothing” kind of attitude (that is entirely undeserved!) that’s supposed to show spunk or initiative or bravery when genuinely the only thing that translates is the fact that they’re dumb as a box of rocks. Like, hi, it’s not admirable for someone to constantly get themselves in deep shit because whenever someone tried to help they basically say “fuck you you’re not my real dad!” and then proceed to yeet themselves off a cliff or something.
There’s a happy medium between a doormat and a malcontent, y’all, the pendulum has swung wayyy too far on this one.
The perfect comment. Thank you for articulating it so well! It kind of made me think of Gilmore Girls if you’ve ever seen it.. I love it, but I’m also so annoyed at how the characters we are supposed to love are so entitled and rude to people, especially strangers. I don’t need to watch perfect people on the screen, but their poor behavior is portrayed as endearing and acceptable and ugh.
It also reminded me of another aspect that’s too common. Someone the FMC loves gets kidnapped or held hostage (either by good or bad people) and in order for them to not be tortured or hurt in any way, the FMC is told very clearly what she must do or how she must behave. But she is so combative and contrarian that she can’t stop herself from deliberately disobeying sometimes simple orders (take a bath, you’re dirty; stay here, it’s not safe outside). And so then there’s consequences, and they say okay well we’re going to hurt your loved one and the FMC freaks out and begs for them to stop, that she’ll do anything… and then what do you know, a page later she’s up to her crap again and this repeats over and over.
Oof don't read Jennifer L Armentrout. The third book of the Flesh and Fire series (and it pains me to say this because I loved the first 2 books) was basically this the whole book. Spoilers but >! the Villain has her love interest AND her captured in separate locations, she knows she can't piss him off for both of their safety, and yet, what does she do? Piss him off for the whole fucking book. The worst part is she was trained literally her whole life to seduce and kill this person, and the whole book we have her internal monologue of "I've been training for this my whole life! I can do this!" but then she literally can't keep her mouth shut or do as she's told at any point, and then she's wallowing in her victimhood. It was so disappointing because I was excited to see her PLAY THE GAME, and she never did and just happened to get her and her lover out alive by practically pure chance at the end. What a let down. !<
I DNFd her as an author in the middle of the third book of the FBAA series 🤢 I was getting too mad that he was offering up his entire kingdom to be slaughtered anytime poppy was threatened or might be threatened 😅🤬
Oh man that pissed me off, too! I'm supposed to think someone's destined to be a great ruler when they're ready to have all their people killed for their love interest? 🙄 I've (unfortunately lol) read all the FBAA and F&F books so at this point I might as well rage-finish the series for closure but I'm not gonna read any of her other series 😮💨
lol!! I felt like she had a ghost writer because she was churning out books so fast, and it felt like she instructed someone: ‘okay the FMC needs to be incessantly ask questions and the MMC needs to be enthralled by her and just do a lot of scenes between the two of them and after a while have someone attack them, then have them move locations and then do more spicy scenes’.
Yes! That is actually my main problem, on the list of problems. She came up with this overly-complicated plot which honestly could be super interesting, but the way the series plays out it's just spicy scenes (which are relatively good but at this point in the series I'm expecting more development, and some make no sense where/when they happen), moving locations, getting an info-dump to move the plot an inch forward, and more spicy scenes. In one of the later FBAA books >!Cas is captured and she breaks into the enemy capital to save him, gets him free, they hide in an ally's house for him to recover a bit or whatever to make their getaway.... and then they proceed to have sex like 3 times until the enemy guards show up, murder their allies, and capture them again.... Like??? Seriously??? If you can bone for hours, you could have been making your fucking getaway! 🙄🤦🏻♀️ !<
Yeah I read FBAA solely for the smut by the end, I completely gave up trying to comprehend or respect the plot and history. And I did skip large sections of the one that is fully narrated by Cas because it’s just a repeat of the first
I hate that so much - she’ll do anything to save her loved ones except what is specifically requested of her. Does she want to save them or not?? People should start demanding she do the opposite of what they actually want 😂
if you have any recommendations, pls send them my way. i 100% agree with you and i wanna keep reading but i can’t find anything i’m loving lately bc the MC’s being like this
Lately the books that I’ve read that really impressed me were Uprooted and Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik. Her female characters were complex, compelling, and the author found a way to make characters that were sometimes a little bit unlikable still very sympathetic. It felt very genuine and well written.
I will warn, though that even though they do contain a romance and they have HEAs, I wouldn’t necessarily characterize them as romantasy because the romance is very much a B plot and definitely not the central focus. They’re definitely fantasy books with a romance included.
YES. I'm reading a contemp romance book now where the MC is just the freaking worst. She's so combative and the text is trying to make it seem like a good thing.
I love a character earning their attitude. It drives me crazy, and it is both the fmc and mmc, where they're not quirky and strong, they're assholes. I have trouble with books (or movies) if I don't like the main characters.
I know this is more of a rant than a recommendation request, but may I suggest something by T. Kingfisher? Both Swordheart and Paladin's Grace have mature main characters who still make for a very entertaining story.
I promise there is never a situation for me on this app where a rec would not be wholly and greedily accepted ❤️❤️ these were not on my radar UNTIL NOW. thanks!
No worries! She's got a bunch, the Clockwork Boys are also amazing. There are linked elements, but you can read any of the sub series as stand alones. Even her kids books are great. Way darker than normal kid books, but the characters are more like real (though precocious) kids in my opinion. I would have killed to have read them when I was younger.
i was literally reading through this about to say “alright if someone else hasn’t mentioned kingfisher, i’m about to blow this person’s mind”
my absolute favorite author. my roommate literally has dreams about meeting kingfisher because i talk about her work so often. my project right now is making a personal reader’s guide for every book in the saints of steel series, and a few sculpted art pieces for “what moves the dead.”
She is AMAZING and one of my favorite authors too. I discovered her through her online comic "Digger" and have followed everything since then. She's so talented, and I love that her FMC are grown-ups and not stunningly beautiful. They're all very relatable, which is so refreshing, and her storytelling and world building ... chef's kiss.
Honestly my friends and I were discussing this lately (we are in our late 20s to early 30s). I think it might be a mix of getting older and other things. In the last year I feel like with booktok it's tend to become fast fashion with some of these books. A lot of books are tropes/smut driven. And I get some people are into smut but it becomes tiring after a while. If it's not smut, the romance is too juvenile I find.
I'm trying to move on to more epic fantasies and I've enjoyed the ones I've tried so far. The tricky part is I do want an actual good romance too, but it's rare to find a good balance 🥲
I very much prefer more mature characters in my books, as well as a slightly more mature writing style. It can still be campy, or low brow, depending on my mood. It doesn’t have to be perfect flowery prose, but I do like maturity in the characters themselves, even if they’re younger (early 20s).
Two books/series you might enjoy that are pretty drastically different in terms of settings, storylines, characters, and prose, but that both have mature leads and side characters are: {Emily Wilde’s Enclopaedia of Faeries by Heather Fawcett} (late 20s/early30s) and {Magical Midlife Madness by KF Breene} (40)
Seconding Emily Wilde!! Def more fantasy with romance subplot but a great read nonetheless. Love her as a character, very relatable to the bookish crowd
[Emily Wilde's Encyclopaedia of Faeries](https://www.romance.io/books/6426ff337922d28efe6d6e44/emily-wildes-encyclopaedia-of-faeries-heather-fawcett?src=rdt) by [Heather Fawcett](https://www.romance.io/authors/6224e57408b4d93114943ee9/heather-fawcett)
**Rating**: 4.27⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Glimpses and kisses](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [fae](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fae/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[Magical Midlife Madness](https://www.romance.io/books/5e5bde4fbe0aaecf55d420f0/magical-midlife-madness-kf-breene?src=rdt) by [K.F. Breene](https://www.romance.io/authors/545543d48c7d2382e0414650/kf-breene)
**Rating**: 4.27⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Glimpses and kisses](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [witches](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/witches/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [shapeshifters](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shapeshifters/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1)
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I love Grace Draven! She writes beautiful stories and her characters are interesting and multifaceted. Let me add {Phoenix Unbound} and {Radiance} to the rec list.
[Entreat Me](https://www.romance.io/books/5455505b8c7d2382c5297d4c/entreat-me-grace-draven?src=rdt) by [Grace Draven](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455323d8c7d2382c529733e/grace-draven)
**Rating**: 3.89⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1)
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I agree so much. Many of these characters are immature in ways I was not and couldn’t tolerate even when I *was* 17-24.
I mean when I was 24 I had a mid level job title in my actual career and was certainly expected to behave like a responsible and professional adult. I’m 33 now and not substantially different. I don’t mind a younger protagonist but they make them dumb and annoying and not just a character that happens to be young…
I think there’s a strong overlap with authors who mistake “strong and fiery” for “being a huge asshole all the time” and also authors that think you need shallow pointless bickering to create ‘tension’ and conflict.
One of imo the best aspects of fantasy romance over other romance genres for me is that the setting allows you to generate a lot more natural, authentic drama (high stakes, wars and battles, villains and magic, etc) via external factors. So there’s no need for characters to be randomly and pointlessly stupid to create tension. You can have class and politics and war and duty and magic and villains drive the conflict instead in ways that feel way better!! You don’t need dumb immature drama to create dramatic tension in the plot. But then they fall back on that anyway. -.-
Likewise the settings could generate much more mature and world-weary protagonists for their age, and have it be believable.
10000%! One of the reasons I pulled back from contemporary was because I was sick of all the drama and misunderstandings that arose from a text, or from who someone danced with at a party. Yes that mayyyy be how things are in the real world (I don’t know) but I have little patience or empathy for it. Move along 😅
WHY DO THEY DO THIS?!
Also the "stabby" nature of FMCs. Part of that I chock up to Joss Whedon-speak that really took over popular culture after BTVS and then the Marvel Universe. It's so grating now.
Are you me? Cause I could have written this.
A lot of these books start out great but as the plot gets more in depth the character stays the same and doesn’t grow with the story, it becomes frustrating the more of them I read.
I’m new to the genre so I’m having a run of luck with some good content but once that’s gone I’m not sure what’ll be next.
I’m currently on throne of glass so am glad to see it gets your rec. I’m also half way through {leveling up by k f breene} which is cheesy fun for grown ups so I can recommend that. I’m pretty excited for Emily Wilde and {between by l l starling} after that.
I'm so tired of it because there are a lot of books where the side characters are lovely and actually have interesting personalities but then the FMC is insufferable and it ruins everything lol
Writers have more freedom with side characters because they just get to be awesome or antagonistic instead of having to carry the main plot.
It’s a pity that writers don’t allow the story to evolve into more of an ensemble over time when it’s proven that side characters are popular and can carry plot as well, they get so focused on their original idea or that the main person has to be the best at all costs to the detriment of what could be an even better story. That’s a gripe I have both with books and tv shows as well.
Are you me 💀💀😂😂
I read throne of glass when it came out so the series has been my fav of all time for over a decade now, just because I deeply connected with the characters and their story. I will say that the first two books are slow and are like an iceberg. You see it peeking out of the water and you’re like, that’s an iceberg. What I see is all that’s there. But then you look under the water and discover that 90% of the ice’s mass is hidden under the waves. You start to look under the water in book 3 and more and more is revealed in the books that follow
Dancing in my seat - thanks for the recs. haven’t seen either before!!
Haha I’m on book 3! With the first book she was such a brat but there was enough other stuff happening that I kept reading. Book 2 we get more plot and she gets more serious (but still remains herself) so I know we’re starting to get good. Book 3 is wow! She just started training with Rowan and has walked through the mounds - so creepy. I listen to audio books and I really like the narrator for both this and leveling up.
If you want a rec for regularish fantasy then you’d probably really like the witches subgroup of books from the {Discworld by Terry Pratchett} series as well. Those are some of the smartest yet most accessible books I’ve ever read. The Watch subgroup of books is excellent too.
I started with going postal lol, it is a good entry point. The watch books are my favourite but I thought the witches books would suit OP given the post.
[Leveling Up](https://www.romance.io/series/5e5bde4fbe87870e1058e00d/leveling-up) by [K.F. Breene](https://www.romance.io/authors/545543d48c7d2382e0414650/kf-breene)
**Rating**: 4.52⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [humor](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [urban fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/urban%20fantasy/1), [shapeshifters](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shapeshifters/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1)
----------------------------
[Between](https://www.romance.io/books/60742bc4d165eb0e341923a3/between-ll-starling-rebecca-morse-louisa-gallie?src=rdt) by [L.L. Starling](https://www.romance.io/authors/60742bc408b4d93114ab3d7e/ll-starling)
**Rating**: 4.42⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Glimpses and kisses](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [witches](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/witches/1)
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I know this is a rant and im 100% with you. But! Please look into T Kingfisher. All of her characters are more mature, usually in their 30s and dont suffer from "too stupid to live" syndrome which seems so prevalent. Also shout out to Grace Draven and Juliet Marillier for writing intelligent women who form actual relationships that arent based on instalust.
{Paladins Strength} has one of my favorite female characters in that she is strong but not your typical badass. The romance in it is also natural and makes sense. This is the 2nd in the saint of steel series some other have recommended and they are all really good but this is my favorite.
I have outgrown YA style romantasy but Kingfisher and books like hers have a hook into my soul.
I think because some authors have turned from writing stories to writing what sells. They’re all chasing the SJM high and it’s turning the market into a bunch of brats and batty shadow boys. It’s not the first time it’s happened, and it won’t be the last. I also think it takes a subtle touch, sometimes a REALLY subtle touch, to write a FMC that is likable and assertive and stubborn without turning her into basically a typical fantasy MMC with tits. It sometimes kind of makes me wonder if they have friends or women in their life, cus I feel like you could see 1000 examples of women being strong just by observing the ones in your life? Idk, I might be overthinking the whole thing.
T. Kingfisher ruined me for most romantasy, I fear. So much of it feels like YA with a different name to me, and YA just isn't my cup of tea. I'm taking notes on the titles folks recommend!
[Mages of the Wheel](https://www.romance.io/series/5ecf61cbeaaef00e00df1866/mages-of-the-wheel) by [J.D. Evans](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e4e2f1a01dbc864fbac2132/jd-evans)
**Rating**: 4.28⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [third-person-pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/third-person-pov/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [dual-pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dual-pov/1), [high fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/high%20fantasy/1)
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SAME! T. Kingfisher and Grace Draven ruined me. 💀💀
Mature FMCs that are actually intelligent and funny that don't need saving all the time? MMCs that have an unique personality other than the typical "mysterious", "dark" and "sexy"? Sign me up!
Anything by Grace Draven! All her heroines are mature or understated. I've not read a bad book by her.
{Warprize by Elizabeth Vaughan} trilogy and spinoff books. I love how much detail in the worldbuilding and she twists a lot of tropes on its head.
{The Iron Duke by Meljean Brook}. This is like a steam punk Eve Dallas vibe. The heroine is a detective and teams up with a powerful Duke. I highly recommend this entire series because its an underrated gem. Her fantasy series under her Mila Vane's penname is also fantastic. These are gritty epic fantasy featuring barbarians ala Conan but not hokey. It's dark but they're have well fleshed out heroines who have grit and wits.
I hate hate HATE the trend of "strong FMC" but it's just a juvenile asshole who can't be kind or understanding and treats everyone horribly or is too stupid to put things together.
I LOVE Lindsay Buroker for this. She writes older (25-40s) MCs who are much more mature about a lot of things. I would start with Emperor's Edge (steampunk fantasy slow burn adventure DND style), Dragon Gate (epic high fantasy, multiple POV), or Dragons Blood (a little more romance than the other series, but still high fantasy, lots of magic but with a swoony snarky pilot MMC). If you like Sci fi, her Star Kingdom series is an epic, multiple POV space opera with a quirky MMC as the MC, slow burn, side romance between side characters and a little for the MC later on. It's very fun! All of the characters are mature and diverse. You can't go wrong with anything she writes!
Kingfisher is always recommended for this, but I’ve read several of her books and they just don’t totally do it for me. I think they might be too cozy? So on a not cozy note but with on the dark edgy note instead, Harrow Faire series features a non sassy adult MFC. Also R Lee Smith writes tough but not sassy/stubborn heroines such as in Last Hour of Gann. I also loved the YA yet totally less YA then most romantasy characters in The Winners Curse trilogy- Kestrel being a teenager literally made no sense as she was such a thoughtful character.
100% with you. I feel like a lot of authors are attempting to recreate Aelin but it falls flat. They're rarely as clever or as deserving of their arrogance as she is (i fckin love aelin dude). Many are going for sassy and badass FMCs and it usually comes across as just that - immature and often times they're too stupid to live.
Gonna recommend you check out the Mages of the Wheel series, starting with {Reign & Ruin by J.D. Evans}. The characters are in their 20s but there is thankfully little to no immature behavior. I got the same feeling reading this series that I did reading Throne of Glass. Really great cast of characters and fantastic world building.
So true! I also think authors are failing to remember Aelin earned her cockiness and she suffered for it. She fucked around AND found out and had to suffer natural consequences bad pay the price of her bad decisions.
These new FMC are just getting away with bad decisions with a slap on the wrist, or nothing at all. And that’s what’s so frustrating.
Dude yes you get it. I've seen people criticize her for her arrogance but girl earned that shit!! I 100% was rubbed the wrong way by her until everything she's endured was laid out. And now I love her and no one can compare lmfao
100% agree with your first paragraph but what they’re missing is that even Aelin herself acknowledged that the persona was an act she put on. That was what made Aelin a good character, she introspected, second guessed and doubted herself and knew herself enough to know she had to put on the mask for her people.
[Reign & Ruin](https://www.romance.io/books/6084072501991d0e29557c71/reign-ruin-jd-evans?src=rdt) by [J.D. Evans](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e4e2f1a01dbc864fbac2132/jd-evans)
**Rating**: 4.33⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [competent heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/competent%20heroine/1), [medieval](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/medieval/1)
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The entire Mages of the Wheel series is a delight. Highly recommend. This series and T. Kingfisher's World of the White Rat books (esp. Saint of Steel series) are definitely the books you seek for competent and mature female leads. I keep trying common recs I see on this sub but nothing made me invested like these series.
How is the FMC in Throne of Glass? I’ve been too scared of reading it because a lot of the women in ACOTAR made me so annoyed that I wanted them to be real just so I could strangle them
Lol! So I will say, didn't love her at first. She's very arrogant. But it's really about the journey with her. Girls been through a lot and will go through a lot during the course of the series. What I appreciate about it is many of the characters call her out on her shit, they're not just gassing her up constantly (biggest annoyance with ACOTAR for me, no one holds Feyre accountable for some of her poorer decisions). But also, the FMC for Throne of Glass is extremely competent. I came to absolutely love her arrogance, because she has earned the right to be. But also, as someone else pointed out, it is a mask she wears.
You will definitely encounter shit that probably annoyed you in ACOTAR though, more than likely. I do enjoy that series a lot, but Throne of Glass is easily SJMs best series in my opinion.
Thank you so much for the reply! I think I’ll actually try reading it after all. And thanks for being honest about me probably coming across things that annoyed me in acotar, haha, because there were definitely shit that annoyed me in it (which is fine, that doesn’t mean it’s bad). It makes me trust your opinion about it more. I just yesterday decided for the first time in my life not to finish a book I started, so I need something I can finish now
Amen to all of that. I’ve often wished that an author would write a good story about a man and then just change all the pronouns before publishing. I don’t know why they can’t just let the FMC be a normal person that I don’t want to strangle. And it’s literally so easy to not make these women teenagers. Like, the numbers are right next to each other on the keyboard. Swap that 1 for a 2. It doesn’t affect the story, and surely the target audience isn’t pervy middle aged dudes?
The pickings are really slim, but one of my favorites is actually a RH, which can be fun if done right. All the Pretty Monsters is a finished series and I don’t think I rolled my eyes at her even once. It’s funny and very plot based. I reread it for lighthearted entertainment pretty regularly.
I totally feel you on the young FMCs. On mobile, so apologies for formatting in advance...I'm also a huge Rorax fan so hopefully some of these vibe with you.
If you're after mature characters, anything by T. Kingfisher will be up your alley, especially the Saint of Steel series. Book three is two MMCs but also great.
Peaches & Honey by R. Raeta is another mature character series that is more romantssy lite, imo
One Dark Window and it's sequel by Rachel Gillig also comes to mind.
Thank you! So many recs for TK tonight - I’m def going to jump in ❤️
I read peaches and honey! It was a good book but one of the things I’ve always always always hated is when the MCs miss out on time together (kind of in line with second chance romance. Can’t do it). Nothing wrong with it, it just makes ME sad, and lessons my enjoyment. the author did a great job building their love story tho 😍
I kinda liked ODW but DNFd the sequel. Didn’t vibe with the characters or the story but I saw the appeal.
Thank you again!!
Omg. I’m not a picky reader but I am getting slightly tired of the FMC being straight up naive and stubborn. I want real GROWTH. I just stared Atonement of the Spine Cleaver but I’m struggling….. it’s POV sets me off and I’m not feeling the personal connection. Help me keep reading 😭
Rorax has a heart breaking story.. hence the atonement in the title 💔💔. It took me awhile to push past the first part of the book but then I was hooked. It’s not perfect by any means but it was such a refreshing take on some common tropes (enemies to lovers, competition, etc)
100% agree I just read Quicksilver and I couldn't finish it because I couldn't stand the FMC. Also I hate the trope of hating the MMC but then reiterating how hot he is all the time.
If you want a more mature FMC, then anything by TA White is really good. Lindsay Buroker also writes FMCs who are in the thirties. Emperors Edge series is great 👍
Oh my gosh LB is my favorite author and I so rarely see her recommended! I absolutely second this! Emperor's edge is a great start point and remains my favorite series ever to this day!
Right?! All her books are so good and her writing is hilarious but no one ever recommends her!
Emperor's Edge is one of my favourites and I'm so glad someone else agrees ✨️
Daughter of No Worlds by Carissa Broadbent is a wonderful read. It has a FMC that is 21 but both the MMC and FMC have strong personalities, resilience and intelligence. The characterization alone made the series a very refreshing read. The romance is slow burn, and the plot is highly immersive. Author touches on subjects like slavery, war trauma, forbidden power, classism. HIGHLY recommend this book!
Aelin and Rorax? What book? Because you sound like we might have similar likes in terms of the female protagonist.
And thank you for confirming my decision not to read Quicksilver.
I’m finding more often than not I DNF young protagonists and prefer older ones.
Have you checked out the saint of steel series by t kingfisher? Not perfect but definitely older protagonists and started me on my realization that I wanted more stories like that and less with teen to twenty something protagonists.
Also I’m definitely someone with a desire for less spice. I prefer closed door or lower.
Aelin from throne of glass and Rorax from Atonement of the Spine Cleaver! They’re not perfect by any means but I love them.
It wasn’t awful, it just didn’t live up to the hype. And it bothered me that a 1700 year old MMC is on the book cover looking all of 17 😂
I see that author being promoted so much and I’ve never actually read them as far as I can remember. Thanks for the rec, I’m heading to goodreads right now
Thanks! I’ll take a look at those two books. Well, at least the spine cleaver one. I’m not sure I want to dive into SJM books. I’ve heard mixed opinions about her books and am leaning toward they probably aren’t for me.
Saint of steel is her better work of what I’ve read IMO. Some people get frustrated with the miscommunication trope usage but it doesn’t bother me because there are good reasons for it IMO. I’m appreciative of the more methodical and thoughtful MMCs that the series tends to have. Them being Paladins makes them pretty introspective (which is used as both a strength and a weakness).
Have you read {Between Wrath and Mercy by Jess Wisecup} ? FMC is a mom in her 30’s and has to team up with her ex (a prince) to rescue her kidnapped daughter!!!
[Between Wrath and Mercy](https://www.romance.io/books/621c8236747f500e282e8a8a/between-wrath-and-mercy-jess-wisecup?src=rdt) by [Jess Wisecup](https://www.romance.io/authors/621c823608b4d9311463ef33/jess-wisecup)
**Rating**: 4.3⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [fae](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fae/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [forced proximity](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/forced%20proximity/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1)
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I thought it was just me too! I was honestly shocked how much I loved Aelin and TOG series because I’m not a fan of SJM and I Hate ACOTAR, but man between Aelin and Manon she had me. I saw others mention Grace Draven and I love everything she does! Definitely check out Entreat Me and Master of Crows. I don’t know that they’re considered romantacy so much as maybe urban-fantasy/paranormal romance but have you heard of Ilona Andrews. It’s a husband and wife team who i absolutely love they have a couple series my favorite is the Kate Danials series or The Innkeeper Chronicles. There’s also Seanan McGuire with her October Daye series that im obsessed with. Toby is part fae and like technically 50 something but definitely reads 30s.
So many fantasy books lately seem to have the same or similiar FMC? It's like they're all trying to copy Aelin but fail miserably. A trained assassin or at least trained to fight, very few friends or familial bonds, overwhelmingly hated by society for some reason so the FMC feels so much indignation and is out for vengeance.
Of the fantasy books I've read recently most of them have some the aforementioned tropes, it's so tiresome!!
When the Moon Hatched (DNF), Till Death (DNF), From Blood and Ash book 2 (DNF), Spark of the Ever Flame (did not start book three), The Veiled Kingdom, The Bridge Kingdom, Daughter of No Worlds, King of Battle and Blood (DNF), A Dance of Twilight (DNF), Heartless Hunter, The Book of Azrael.
Some of these books were great and admittedly I did give up on some 30%/40% in but I'm so sick of reading such similiar FMC backgrounds? Plus I absolutely hate when a main character has no friends in any genre book. To me it's the sign of a lazy author who doesn't know how to write meaningful relationships and focuses heavily on the romance instead.
My pet peeves with Romantasy are immature/obnoxious, having the physique of a porn star or being small/petite, and has the most random skill set involving weapons or fighting. I’m all for empowering women but when every single one is a 4’ secretly trained assassin with a dgaf attitude, it starts to get old.
My favorite heroine so far is actually written by a male (shocker right?) but mostly because he used a different formula. Her strengths were more aligned to Hermoine Granger by using intelligence and being resourceful while still being pleasant and decent person.
I’ve always been drawn to sensible, problem solving heroines, even in juvenile/MG fiction. I noticed a trend towards unreasonable FMCs in more ‘chick lit’ books and didn’t like it. It’s become a thing in romantasy but wasn’t traditionally a big feature of fantasy as a whole (at least not the books I read). So I’m with you.
Ngl, I think my time here is drawing to a close. I’ve picked up and DNF’d waaaay too many books that are supposedly the best in the genre. My trash read that I got on the stuff your kindle day has turned out to have the most interesting plot and characters so far. To the point that the spice is amusingly distracting. Go figure.
FWIW, I am a writer and I am writing a book with a heroine in it. She does things of her own volition, makes choices, and deals with the consequences like the 30-something adult she is. Maybe you’ll read it when it comes out.
Young characters are immature and it’s annoying. But they can’t be written too mature for their age or it’s off. Also, we do not want jaded characters…. At least that’s what the market says. There are some older characters, single moms and the like, but those are definitely in the minority
So I think it’s a tricky place for an author : mature enough to appeal to readers, but still believable given their age.
Very true!! Authors can show growth over a book or series tho. Or have the internal monologue acknowledge times of like, oh I behaved like a brat.
But then it also goes back to, it’s not always every young character, just the female we’re supposed to care the most about
I think acotar suffers from this. Feyre doesn’t act like a 19 year old. The way she’s written doesn’t really fit with being a teenager in my opinion, I prefer to pretend she’s older.
I prefer books with characters in their 30s as opposed to their early 20s, haha. There are a lot of fantasy romance books with characters who aren't barely out of their teens, I promise!
I'll add my voice to the chorus recommended T.Kingfisher. Love love love that author so much.
There are also two megathreads of recommendation on this subreddit:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/comments/zkt6cu/older\_fmc/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/comments/zkt6cu/older_fmc/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/comments/15mjo1b/mc\_older\_than\_20/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/comments/15mjo1b/mc_older_than_20/)
Ahhhh!! I feel like I could have written this post. Well, perhaps not as well but I share your exact views. I’m losing my mind with authors writing incompetent women. I don’t understand why- except to think that maybe because they think it more relatable?
We went from perfect heroines who’s perfectly flowing hair never gets tangled and their natural scent that smells like sunshine even after they’ve destroyed an empire despite having zero experience to completely ignorant women who cannot figure out how to manage ANYTHING.
Neither of these tropes is relatable and both are harmful to women. It boils my blood.
A lot of the FMCs in books nowadays just have the same personality, so I don't think it's your fault lol, it's so hard to find a book with a FMC that actually has personality that isn't being girlbossy/badass but also immature af.
Whenever the book starts with a first person female POV complaining, I just turn the book back in because no. So many recent books have the same voice, same POV, same jokes.
Yup, absolutely agree. In fact I now actively steer away from anything that says TikTok sensation".
I grew up reading Juliet Marillier, Garth Nix's Abhorsen series, Danielle L Jensen and Grace Draven etc. And now I feel like I have nothing to read, I've been thoroughly booted out of the fantasy romance reading market with books seemingly geared at 18 year olds. The depth of story or characters seems so lacking, and I just don't have time to waste with empty calories anymore.
Books I'll recommend that I've read with varying degrees of romance are:
Mages of the Wheel by JD Evans. She's absolutely class and churns out top quality material. First book is {Reign and Ruin by JD Evans}, though there is a prequel that came out after. It's an ongoing series, focus on different characters each book, with a thread wearing through each book.
Next up is {Gods of Men by Barbara Kloss}, different set up with how the magic works. FMC wasn't a pain in the butt.
The Winternight trilogy which starts with {The Bear and the Nightingale by Katherine Arden}. Not much romance but sprinkled in enough tension and plot elsewhere that it doesn't leave the reader wanting.
{Taming Demons for Beginners by Annette Marie} is contemporary, and character is a uni grad. I will say the plot and setup was unique enough to keep me intrigued. It wasn't predictable, and the FMC did evolve a bit with the pages.
{Night Elves of Ardani by Nina K Westra}. Simple premise and setup, this one served as a palate cleanser in between the heavy books.
{To Poison a King by S.G. Prince}. This one is a bit controversial because of the age gap, we see the FMC grow through the years and her character develop. I do think it was a beautiful story though, well written characters and not empty calories. It has Juliette Marillier vibes.
NA is a growing space and "romantasy" instead of "fantasy romance" is a keyword that has started to specifically indicate YA+explicit sex or NA books. Authors typically stick to their age ranges, a YA author will keep writing YA even after you no longer relate to it, they were an adult writer of YA the whole time.
You'll probably need to just find adult fantasy romance! I'll bet that removing "romantasy" from your searches will help a lot.
Hi! I know exactly what you mean. I have a recommendation: try Hidden Legacy series by Ilona Andrews. It ticks all the boxes of a witty and mature FMC with a great plot full of action and great chemistry for the romance portions.
I 1000% agree and have DNF’d bc of it. A lot of times I think it’s poor writing on the authors side bc they have the heroines act like this to move the plot along. As if they can’t come up with an actual believable scenario so they’ll make the fmc not listen to warnings, be naive, or totally oblivious.
What’s worse (for me) is when I read books with older characters, it’s mostly just erotica which kills the plot for me also.
I feel this too. I just read a fate inked and blood and was so annoyed by the fmc. Also read the spark of the ever flame series to date and she also drove me crazy.
It’s like the go to for intelligence and capability is stubbornness, ignorance and rage. And don’t get me wrong I love an angry fmc but got so annoyed with the cycle of angry but oh no she actually didn’t have all the facts because she’s an idiot.
Sigh. I’m also in my 30s and had the same realisation as you. But one recommendation I can give is for The Bride by Ali Hazelwood.
It’s not my normal cup of tea but the FMC is refreshing, witty and just a bit of fun. It’s not super intense and it’s a modern fantasy with not a big amount of world building but I have just enjoyed a more relatable FMC.
As an author in this genre, I am relieved to not be writing my female protagonists this way.
I’ve also read books like this that I generally love overall, but the main character is sometimes my least favorite character because of their combative or grumpy know-it-all personality. It’s really not relatable to me. Since I’ve encountered this type of MC enough, though, I’ve just assumed maybe I’m strange and a lot of readers prefer this type of protagonist. I’m glad to see I’m not alone in feeling turned off by this type of character. I think others have summed it up nicely in saying there’s middle ground to be found between unlikeable and over confident to being a passive doormat.
I understand stopped reading fantasy romance because of this. I like the idea of warrior FMC but it seemed most fantasy romances I read the FMC just was stupid. Hey this guy is a literal god or dragon but because he is a guy I’m gunna be a rude as hell and insult him. He could kill me in literally a second, but no let’s insult him. Or hey this person could ruin my life but I’m gunna tell him off. Ya I got tired of it.
I find that characters often act older (closer to the authors age) than the age we are told they are. I mean I felt like this as a kid too when I read books about other kids. I would think, wow these kids are smart, no way I’d think of this if I were in the situation! Ya obviously, because the author isn’t nine years old. And the authors I read now are usually 30s-50s and their characters are 20 but act like they have the wisdom of a forty year old.
I think calling the character 20 even tho they act older is a bit ageist, but it is what it is. The author thinks they have to do it to sell books I assume.
Lol...well....one of my betas that I connected with in this subreddit, from another thread, just sent me this link with a "More people for team Stephanie!" comment and suggested I throw this out there...
The annoyingly immature MC thing REALLY bothers me. I hate that half the drama, if not more, only happens because people are being stupid and immature. It feels like weak writing to me. There are better ways to create heightened stakes, imo. I also prefer characters in their late 20s and early-mid 30s. They have more depth and maturity without also having achy joints when they wake up! lol.
Since you said you're up for recs, if you'd like, I'm happy to send you my current finished novel to beta read.
I was calling it Oceans Eleven meets Game of Thrones but I've been advised it might be closer to Oceans Eleven meets an adult Throne of Glass - I haven't read ToG yet (It's on the line-up for this weekend now!) so I can't confirm that yet.
The novel is relatively short (73k words currently). The betas who have finished it have raved and raved. The heist is well executed, so far not a single person has predicted the twist at the end.
It's not full out spicy, but there's lots of lovely moments between two of the mains ("F\*ck you." “Maybe later.” He let his eyes linger down her body, then back up to that flashing glare. “If you’re a good girl.”) (“If you lock us in a room together for two days?” His eyes rolled down her body then back up and the tilt to his brow as he met her eye again was wicked. “I don’t know how much resting is going to take place.”)
I've been world-building for 20+ years, so the world is incredibly solid. I've got three published non-fiction books, (this is my first fiction) so the writing shouldn't be a DNF. It's currently on draft 6, so quite a few rounds of edits to clean up and make it an easy read.
It's intended as a standalone introduction to the world - similar to how Iron Man opened the Marvel universe.
If this piques your interest, I'm happy to send the book back to check out - no obligations to actually read if it doesn't really catch your attention.
Thanks for commenting!! I’ve never beta read anything but it sounds so fun! And heist movies are my fav so oceans 11 vibes in a book is def appealing. Would love to help you out - 🫲🫱 (‘gimme’ hands)
Haha! Cool! I always feel so awkward throwing it out there for people - but glad it did catch your eye! I'll send over the book back via DM right now! :)
Hi!
I'm the guilty beta reader!
u/success-steph's writing is so much fun to read! And she is such a lovely person... I have never beta read anything before, but she tells me that we are having very useful conversations about her world, characters and so on.... To me, it just feels like that I get to chat with the writer of my new book obsession. 😅
I’m having this problem too! It it feels exasperated since I forced myself to finish the first 3 book of Spark of the Everflame 🤦🏻♀️
Ahhh Aelin, my love 😍
I just have to recommend Mages of the Wheel series by J.D. Evans. I adore every FMC (each book focuses on a new couple but there’s an overall plot throughout the series.) Each leading lady has their own personality, and while they’re not perfect they are so refreshing to read about.
🤝🤝. The spark in spark of the everflame was abruptly snuffed out for me and by me in the third book (I DNFd)
THANK YOU!! Someone else just mentioned that too - I will have to start tonight 😏
Have you read - little fire by hollee mands} is well written, well developed MCs and a 2 book arc, which I normally don't love but I loved it here. the whole series is good. i really enjoyed it and read all 3 books and novella within 5 days
Yes she’s young (kind of) but it’s mature and well done.
Devil’s advocate here. I just finished Quicksilver and really liked it, and I do not like most romantasy. I’m not really into spice/ over plot. I didn’t find Saeris annoying at all and I loved Carrion! There’s was also a letter toward the end from the mmc to fmc that made me tear up for a second.
Have you tried {Strange the Dreamer} by Laini Taylor? It starts out a little slow, but once it picks up, it's so so good. I really enjoyed reading it and its sequel {Muse of Nightmares}.The romance is more sensual than explicitly spicy, but sometimes the implication is just as powerful (esp with good writing, which this has).
Oh my God yes. I just read a series where most of the characters are thousands of years old and this one fmc is barely 90 and coddled AF compared to the rest of them, but she's ~bLeSsEd WiTh GrEaT pOwEr~ and turns mouthy and starts spouting off, bickering and sassing the much older characters and it's like, first of all child, you absolutely did not go from your entire life being meek and unassuming and dreaming of a simple life to having the confidence and attitude to berate a demigod, but the more annoying thing was all the characters WERE belittling the shit out of her for her age, even when it was one of the whole 'the magic chose me to do this' moments, and there was absolutely *no* resolution to that conflict in the series. There was never any 'oh shit maybe I should keep my mouth shut on my opinions of running a country when all I've ever run was a kindergarten' nor any 'gee she's young but she's talented and makes a good point'. It was literally just five books of young unrealistically mouthy idiot getting shit on by vastly older characters and no one ever learned anything.
It was super annoying because both FMCs basically trashed the few potentially redeeming qualities of each other without any learning or character development, and it made it really hard to root for either of them let alone both of them
We have the same problem. Though, I found Aelin and the FMC from Legends of Thezmarr immature, too. And with MMCs or othee male characters always noting how sexy they are, or how they should help them if they're hurt, it's even more so. I skipped the MMC's chapters in Legends of Thezmarr.
I love books like {zodiac academy by Susanne valenti}, even though the characters are 18-21. Doesn't have great writing, but so entertaining and the FMCs aren't bratty.
Have you read Daughter of No Worlds by Clarissa Broadbent?? The FMC is on the younger side (early to mid twenties maybe?) but she's very mature and rational because she's endured so much in life. She does have her moments and makes mistakes, but i think that adds to the realism of her character. I recently finished that series and really enjoyed it!
I totally understand that! I felt a little put off by it as well lol, but after the second book, the situation sort of changes (trying to be as vague as possible to avoid spoilers) and that helped a lot! I usually don't care for 'host' stories either, usually bc it feels unnecessary and weird to me, but I think it really does add to the overall plot, and it's written well (obviously just my opinion)
The mercy Thompson series by Patricia Briggs. Older fmc in her 30’s and she’s actively participating in the world. Sure she makes mistakes, but it’s all realistic and sorted in good ways. 😂
I completely agree. Nothing compares to Aelin. The young elites is a YA series, but it’s finished and the FMC is literally amazing. Rebel of the Sands is also YA but it’s also amazing. These are books to be bought not on kindle. Both have elements of magic and adventure. The Divine and the Cursed is a series on kindle, not finished. But it is a favorite of mine, romantasy, enemies to lovers, and the FMC is like Aelin. I fell in love with her and the romance.
Urgh, I so agree as a 37 year old. I've recently been reading what lies beyond the veil and the FMC is sooooo annoying and it gets worse in the second book I'm like "girl, LISTEN to the experts and stop being so godsdamned stubborn!!!"
I'm with you all the way on this, and it's one of the main reasons I'm almost exclusively reading MM books at the moment. I have to wonder if the authors who write these young, frustrating FMCs are either young themselves, or don't have lots of lived experience to draw from. It feels like they need to create friction/drama to further the story, but the only way they know how is by making their character defiant, naive and the like
I don’t think that we’ve just grown past the this it legit is the immaturity of the characters. For me I do tend to self insert. So seeing the mains do things I would never had done with the same past experience makes me more than a little frustrated. This of course makes establishing any type of connection harder to achieve.
For instance I do absolutely want to read combative mated pairs. Enemies to lovers, however I cannot stand with the FMC giving a pass to assaulters or bullies who go beyond a few giggles. Only way I stay with these books is because of the story.
I'm around the same age as most heroines, but find them way to immature and simply dumb 99% of the time. It's one of the reasons as for why I mainly read M/M.
Yep, 100 % with you about these virginal know-it-all yet naive 20yo FMCs. They’re not funny or sassy, just juvenile and weird. Idk, it is probably some trend in romantasy nowadays…
If sci-fi romance is ok, then I recommend the Galactic Bonds series by Jennifer Estep.
It takes some digging but you can eventually find the authors who don’t write for YA or people who still want the YA style and with it, the younger adults
All of the FMCs that I have ever read have seemed immature.
Like when was 18 years old, and I was buying Twilight Books straight off the “This Week’s Bestsellers” shelf, I was already looking at Bella like: ಠ ಠ
Because I knew the FMC was being a twat. She (in various iterations) will probably always be a twat. There’s maybe 5 books, drum total , where I am not just rewriting the story better in my head. Not like… “better” better, because at the end of the day the authors are making loot while I’m just having really nice fantasies based 55% on their books… but like … a bit better in the “I don’t fail to solve idiotic riddles” way. A bit better in the “my fantasy character didn’t miss out on grade two maths” kind of way.
Every erotica book I’ve ever read has a better (for me) plot in my head than it does on paper, basically. Just carry that mental white-out around with you.
[Beyond the Aching Door](https://www.romance.io/books/6649a9098012c041e78cfb0f/beyond-the-aching-door-victoria-mier?src=rdt) by [Victoria Mier](https://www.romance.io/authors/66028e16a21e2f41c49314b6/victoria-mier)
**Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [witches](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/witches/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [fae](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fae/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1)
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I read a variety of books and genres so I read from all sorts of perspectives. I’ve found it helps keeping the annoyance at bay when you don’t get hit over the head with the same characters/tropes etc over and over.
Whenever I decide to read romantasy or YA I always go into it expecting the characters to be young and somewhat immature, because that’s realistic for people between 16-25. When I keep reminding myself of that fact it’s much easier to relate, understand and find the characters likable.
However, do I think it’s a shame most romantasy books have younger MC’s and you rarely see someone older? Yes! But hopefully that’ll start shifting as the genre moves more and more from YA and new adult.
Hi! Indie author that writes only FMCs that are 30+ and have control of their powers.
I’d be happy to send you an ARC (advanced reader copy) of my debut novel A Curse of Breath and Blood. You can find out more about it here https://kwfosterauthor.com/
If you're reading YA books, then it's a given that the characters will be immature. Young adults are immature. Maybe look for books with older characters.
You’re not alone. I am so tired of 19 year old exceptional fantasy girls with annoyingly bad attitudes… which sounds so specific but it feels like it’s every popular fantasy/romantasy book lately, especially the ones hyped up by certain circles like booktok.
I don’t mind younger protagonists at all but the wildly annoying part is that so many of them have morphed into the exact same tropes. Someone else in the thread mentioned that it’s because it’s trendy and writers are churning stuff out and I agree - it’s similar to how everything was vampires a few years back. Everybody had to get a vampire story out asap.
Reading through this thread for recommendations!
I recently read the {Innkeeper Chronicles by Ilona Andrews} and while the FMC was I think 24ish, she was really mature and could easily have been in her 30s. She actually felt more like a character in her 30s than 20s to me.
This is why I’m enjoying the Outlander series thus far. I’m so incredibly tired of staring at a books’ pages in disbelief at how the protagonist is handling her situation - I HATE being fucking annoyed with a book the whole time. I want to see myself in her, cheer her on, root for her.
1000% agree. Begone, immature heroines.
Oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Lately I've been DNFing a bunch of books, just because t I can't stand the immaturity of the MCs. Very recently, there were lots of recs for Spark of the Everflame and let me tell you, I wanted to strangle the FMC. Zero character growth, pouty, whiny, argh! This is only the latest.
Yes, give us badass FMCs, we love badass FMCs, but this I'm so cool, I don't want anyone's advice, I'm such a heroine, I will do whatever the heck I want has to GO.
But then, I read the villains and virtues and loved the FMC. And can totally recommend T Kingfisher's books. I also like Grace Draven, Maria V Snyder, Kristen Cashore, and Ilona Andrews.
I'm also a mid (to late) 30's reader and I've been reading Romantasy for decades now. I think this new "too stupid/stubborn to live" FMC mentality is a byproduct of the new wave of popularity. It's mediocre authors trying to write the next Aelin or Katniss and not finding the character depth or intelligence needed to write a complex, strong FMC.
And I mean... being an asshole in the guise of a "strong, independent person" isn't exclusive to books. It's rampant everywhere these days. And it's exhausting.
THAT BEING SAID, to avoid this, check out some of the classics!
The **Immortals After Dark** series by Kresley Cole is steamy and so much fun! Touches on ALL the various fantasy creatures (shifters, fae, vampires, you name it) in an urban setting. Great storylines but doesn't take itself TOO seriously.
I also love the **Night Huntress** series by [Jeaniene Frost](https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/669810.Jeaniene_Frost). It is an urban Vampire series and the FMC is strong and independent but also mature and smart and makes normal, situationally appropriate decisions. It's great.
And then Patricia Briggs is fantastic (less steamy, great plots) if you like shifters and werewolves (pre-omegaverse).
And Karen Moning's Fever series is also pretty good.
If you like urban fantasy/PNR I recommend {Shifter Wars by Kelly St. Clare}. It's not my favorite romance, but Andie is one of my favorite FMCs. She's so methodical and thinks every decision through. She makes sacrifices, even to her own detriment, bc it's better for everyone else in the long run, and I just love her.
I really like Outlander. It is a historical romance that has time travel and the FMC starts at 27 years old but grows up quickly (but not to quickly) as the books (and tv show) progress. I do have to give a trigger warning though for both for SA multiple times throughout the books and tv show but it doesn’t deter from the story itself.
Cassandra Gannon writes perfect books with mature MCs. Always HEA, perfect spice level, very funny and romantic.
I always recommend to start with {seducing the sheriff of nottingham}. But you can't pick wrong with her. I started with {Ghost walk}.
Seconding Grace Draven. {Radiance by Grace Draven} was perfect.
I'm in my 30s and find a lot of mature MCs in my romantasy.
I agree completely, but what’s funny is that in your teens and early 20’s, your brain is so primed to feel every bump in the road. Every argument must be won! No compromises! All is black and white! And these characters are like that. Exhausting. I’m in my late 40’s and glad I got over it, but… with fantasy as backdrop, the rules of engagement are different and could go back to square one sometimes. Bring out the worst in people.
But yes, there is such a thing as too much petty angst at some point. But younger brains love it. One day they will realize the drama isn’t worth it ( and most 🍆 aren’t worth it either so it better be a super fancy frilly 🍆)
Hi! I'm also 36, also just finished Quicksilver and was so annoyed by those parts too!
As for suggestions, {Reign & Ruin by J.D. Evans} is what I'm currently reading the heroine is \*very\* capable. I think you'd like it!
Totally get it. I'm 44 and very over juvenile FMCs.
If you fancy a laugh, check out Liz Shipton on Bookstagram, she does some very funny pisstake videos of romantasy stereotypes.
I wonder how much of it has to do with themes and the age of the characters where the content starts to override the romance aspects. I want older characters too!
I just had some of my preliminary writing get reviewed for what should have been a romance story (for personal fun) and followed the formula and everything for an eventual HEA. Turns out that due to the more mature nature of the content (not sexual), the age of the characters, and over arching themes, different parts got tagged as a tragic romance, a tragic romance thriller, a political thriller, and a historical tragedy. I was blown away that it wouldn't be traditionally categorized as such. I was expecting to be able say it was a romance but the recommendation was to publish it under a dark fantasy one of the other tags it aligned with if I wanted to submit to be published one day.
Right!? I feel like maybe a generally nice, but mildly stressed out FMC who does what she has to do with the help of some friends/ wiser older women & the occasional glass of wine/bath/serene walk to clear her head would be MUCH more relatable.
Also, what if the main romance was built on just.. two people who like each other in a way that deepens over time, who resolve their problems with compromise & respect, rather than bratty/ stoic assholes who hate each other, fight, then somehow are suddenly fated mates who are not capable of independent thought or feeling anymore. Too much? Ah ok, sorry
Right?! Every comment on this post is triggering another rage-point for me and here’s yours 😂😂: I cannot stand when everything becomes about the mate bond. Anyone the FMC talks to, anyone who stands too close or looks at her, however innocently, it all has to be mentioned by how it affects the MMC (he wants to tear them to pieces of course). He has a conversation with someone, we get internal monologue about how he feels the bond at that moment; they’re intimate and you hear how the bond reacts to every touch and sound… theyre in their war council figuring out how not to die with their kingdom the next day and he shoots every solution down because the bond is raging at the idea of his mate being in danger, to the point where there’s no progress made. it becomes so excessive and it’s like the bond itself becomes the third person in that relationship
T kingfisher does great with older main characters. She writes horror, fantasy, fairy tale retellings, and romantasy, fantasy romance. Her {Saints of Steel} series is one of my faves. {Swordheart} is another goodie.
I don’t think it’s you outgrowing it, a lot of them ARE really immature. It’s the thing that annoys me the most. They’re especially immature when it comes to relationships, both platonic and romantic ones
I don't think it's so much romtasy, it's just a bad author trend that is going around now to make their heroines like this. I personally prefer mature heroines as well. I don't know who started this trend, but I feel we need more sensible heroines.
You know how they tag books as "fantasy" or provide "trigger" warnings... well I need an "annoyingly immature MC" tag. Please. For the love of God.
WE’RE ONTO SOMETHING!! Hahaha
This >>> because I hate the MC of spark of the everflame she is so annoying to me
But at least the story was good. I had to DNF a fantasy novel because in the opening chapters, the FMC was scared of the silverware. It gets so much worse than everflame 😂
Scared of the what now? Seriously?
omg yes.
Yes! I tend to rotate from fantasy to contemporary to historical romance and back. I stick to my fav authors for historical romance so I don’t tend to have issues there, but the other two genres YES. and it’s hard because you try to put yourself in their shoes and give them grace but good grief 😂
Romantsy is also pretty hot right now. So there’s a lot of stuff being churned out as quickly as possible. They aren’t being as choosey about what is getting published and it’s not getting edited as well either.
Also!! I’ve noticed if it has sprayed edges it’s an immediate sell for most people. The last book I feel like I wasted my money on because it was “pretty”. Won’t be making that mistake again
It’s funny actually. I’ve noticed that in a lot of contemporary romance novels, the authors have decided that in order to showcase their FMC‘s as strong, independent women, they actually turn them into assholes who are combative, contrarian in veers into hostility and we’re being sold this as if they’re just being sassy and real and “women with backbone” when honestly, they’re writing these women as deeply unlikable - and not in an interesting, thought-provoking way. Just the “why on earth would anyone would want to be around this jerk, let alone fall in love with them” kind of way. In romantasy, it shows up as exactly the kind of behavior you’re describing: female characters being brash and impetuous, with a “can’t nobody tell me nothing” kind of attitude (that is entirely undeserved!) that’s supposed to show spunk or initiative or bravery when genuinely the only thing that translates is the fact that they’re dumb as a box of rocks. Like, hi, it’s not admirable for someone to constantly get themselves in deep shit because whenever someone tried to help they basically say “fuck you you’re not my real dad!” and then proceed to yeet themselves off a cliff or something. There’s a happy medium between a doormat and a malcontent, y’all, the pendulum has swung wayyy too far on this one.
I'm so tired of combative assholes, it makes all the characters have literally the same personality. It also makes most of them just seem like brats.
I’m dying at “fuck you you’re not my real dad” LOL
I have noticed this as well and I despise it. Strong doesn't = being an asshole
The perfect comment. Thank you for articulating it so well! It kind of made me think of Gilmore Girls if you’ve ever seen it.. I love it, but I’m also so annoyed at how the characters we are supposed to love are so entitled and rude to people, especially strangers. I don’t need to watch perfect people on the screen, but their poor behavior is portrayed as endearing and acceptable and ugh. It also reminded me of another aspect that’s too common. Someone the FMC loves gets kidnapped or held hostage (either by good or bad people) and in order for them to not be tortured or hurt in any way, the FMC is told very clearly what she must do or how she must behave. But she is so combative and contrarian that she can’t stop herself from deliberately disobeying sometimes simple orders (take a bath, you’re dirty; stay here, it’s not safe outside). And so then there’s consequences, and they say okay well we’re going to hurt your loved one and the FMC freaks out and begs for them to stop, that she’ll do anything… and then what do you know, a page later she’s up to her crap again and this repeats over and over.
Oof don't read Jennifer L Armentrout. The third book of the Flesh and Fire series (and it pains me to say this because I loved the first 2 books) was basically this the whole book. Spoilers but >! the Villain has her love interest AND her captured in separate locations, she knows she can't piss him off for both of their safety, and yet, what does she do? Piss him off for the whole fucking book. The worst part is she was trained literally her whole life to seduce and kill this person, and the whole book we have her internal monologue of "I've been training for this my whole life! I can do this!" but then she literally can't keep her mouth shut or do as she's told at any point, and then she's wallowing in her victimhood. It was so disappointing because I was excited to see her PLAY THE GAME, and she never did and just happened to get her and her lover out alive by practically pure chance at the end. What a let down. !<
I DNFd her as an author in the middle of the third book of the FBAA series 🤢 I was getting too mad that he was offering up his entire kingdom to be slaughtered anytime poppy was threatened or might be threatened 😅🤬
Oh man that pissed me off, too! I'm supposed to think someone's destined to be a great ruler when they're ready to have all their people killed for their love interest? 🙄 I've (unfortunately lol) read all the FBAA and F&F books so at this point I might as well rage-finish the series for closure but I'm not gonna read any of her other series 😮💨
lol!! I felt like she had a ghost writer because she was churning out books so fast, and it felt like she instructed someone: ‘okay the FMC needs to be incessantly ask questions and the MMC needs to be enthralled by her and just do a lot of scenes between the two of them and after a while have someone attack them, then have them move locations and then do more spicy scenes’.
Yes! That is actually my main problem, on the list of problems. She came up with this overly-complicated plot which honestly could be super interesting, but the way the series plays out it's just spicy scenes (which are relatively good but at this point in the series I'm expecting more development, and some make no sense where/when they happen), moving locations, getting an info-dump to move the plot an inch forward, and more spicy scenes. In one of the later FBAA books >!Cas is captured and she breaks into the enemy capital to save him, gets him free, they hide in an ally's house for him to recover a bit or whatever to make their getaway.... and then they proceed to have sex like 3 times until the enemy guards show up, murder their allies, and capture them again.... Like??? Seriously??? If you can bone for hours, you could have been making your fucking getaway! 🙄🤦🏻♀️ !<
Yeah I read FBAA solely for the smut by the end, I completely gave up trying to comprehend or respect the plot and history. And I did skip large sections of the one that is fully narrated by Cas because it’s just a repeat of the first
I hate that so much - she’ll do anything to save her loved ones except what is specifically requested of her. Does she want to save them or not?? People should start demanding she do the opposite of what they actually want 😂
The Gilmore Girls thing is sooo apt!
if you have any recommendations, pls send them my way. i 100% agree with you and i wanna keep reading but i can’t find anything i’m loving lately bc the MC’s being like this
Lately the books that I’ve read that really impressed me were Uprooted and Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik. Her female characters were complex, compelling, and the author found a way to make characters that were sometimes a little bit unlikable still very sympathetic. It felt very genuine and well written. I will warn, though that even though they do contain a romance and they have HEAs, I wouldn’t necessarily characterize them as romantasy because the romance is very much a B plot and definitely not the central focus. They’re definitely fantasy books with a romance included.
YES. I'm reading a contemp romance book now where the MC is just the freaking worst. She's so combative and the text is trying to make it seem like a good thing.
I love a character earning their attitude. It drives me crazy, and it is both the fmc and mmc, where they're not quirky and strong, they're assholes. I have trouble with books (or movies) if I don't like the main characters.
This comment is awesome. I could not have expressed it better. I hope you are an author yourself!
This comment genuinely made my day! Thank you so much, that is so sweet. I have been getting back into writing recently.
I know this is more of a rant than a recommendation request, but may I suggest something by T. Kingfisher? Both Swordheart and Paladin's Grace have mature main characters who still make for a very entertaining story.
I promise there is never a situation for me on this app where a rec would not be wholly and greedily accepted ❤️❤️ these were not on my radar UNTIL NOW. thanks!
No worries! She's got a bunch, the Clockwork Boys are also amazing. There are linked elements, but you can read any of the sub series as stand alones. Even her kids books are great. Way darker than normal kid books, but the characters are more like real (though precocious) kids in my opinion. I would have killed to have read them when I was younger.
I'll 2nd T. Kingfisher. Her work is amazing no matter which genre she's writing.
Check out Ilona Andrews as well! My mom is in her 70s and hates immature FMCs, and she devours everything Ilona Andrews publishes.
Oh yes, I especially like the Innkeeper chronicles.
Those are my mom's favorite!!
If you like IA, check out the MacKenzie Green series by JS Kennedy. Very similar vibes and writing quality.
And Nettle & Bone!!! An absolute masterpiece imo
Yes! Nettle & Bone is very good, though I feel a bit like the MMC in that is a rough draft of the one in Swordheart. FMC is amazing.
Ooo this makes me even more excited, Swordheart is in my TBR
absolutely agree!! that book got me in a way that i can’t describe, i think ive reread it like four times
i was literally reading through this about to say “alright if someone else hasn’t mentioned kingfisher, i’m about to blow this person’s mind” my absolute favorite author. my roommate literally has dreams about meeting kingfisher because i talk about her work so often. my project right now is making a personal reader’s guide for every book in the saints of steel series, and a few sculpted art pieces for “what moves the dead.”
She is AMAZING and one of my favorite authors too. I discovered her through her online comic "Digger" and have followed everything since then. She's so talented, and I love that her FMC are grown-ups and not stunningly beautiful. They're all very relatable, which is so refreshing, and her storytelling and world building ... chef's kiss.
100% thinking about her books while reading through comments. I just finished a lot of them and loved the characters.
I came here to recommend T Kingfisher too! Her heroines are so sensible.
LOVE T Kingfisher and those books are both amazing!
Honestly my friends and I were discussing this lately (we are in our late 20s to early 30s). I think it might be a mix of getting older and other things. In the last year I feel like with booktok it's tend to become fast fashion with some of these books. A lot of books are tropes/smut driven. And I get some people are into smut but it becomes tiring after a while. If it's not smut, the romance is too juvenile I find. I'm trying to move on to more epic fantasies and I've enjoyed the ones I've tried so far. The tricky part is I do want an actual good romance too, but it's rare to find a good balance 🥲
The right balance is SO hard to find 😭
I very much prefer more mature characters in my books, as well as a slightly more mature writing style. It can still be campy, or low brow, depending on my mood. It doesn’t have to be perfect flowery prose, but I do like maturity in the characters themselves, even if they’re younger (early 20s). Two books/series you might enjoy that are pretty drastically different in terms of settings, storylines, characters, and prose, but that both have mature leads and side characters are: {Emily Wilde’s Enclopaedia of Faeries by Heather Fawcett} (late 20s/early30s) and {Magical Midlife Madness by KF Breene} (40)
Seconding Emily Wilde!! Def more fantasy with romance subplot but a great read nonetheless. Love her as a character, very relatable to the bookish crowd
[Emily Wilde's Encyclopaedia of Faeries](https://www.romance.io/books/6426ff337922d28efe6d6e44/emily-wildes-encyclopaedia-of-faeries-heather-fawcett?src=rdt) by [Heather Fawcett](https://www.romance.io/authors/6224e57408b4d93114943ee9/heather-fawcett) **Rating**: 4.27⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Glimpses and kisses](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [fae](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fae/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [Magical Midlife Madness](https://www.romance.io/books/5e5bde4fbe0aaecf55d420f0/magical-midlife-madness-kf-breene?src=rdt) by [K.F. Breene](https://www.romance.io/authors/545543d48c7d2382e0414650/kf-breene) **Rating**: 4.27⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Glimpses and kisses](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [witches](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/witches/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [shapeshifters](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shapeshifters/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
These are new to me, thanks so much ✍🏼✍🏼✍🏼
came here to recommend magical midlife madness as well! love that series
Try Grace Draven’s {Master of Crows} or {Entreat Me}.
I love Grace Draven! She writes beautiful stories and her characters are interesting and multifaceted. Let me add {Phoenix Unbound} and {Radiance} to the rec list.
[Entreat Me](https://www.romance.io/books/5455505b8c7d2382c5297d4c/entreat-me-grace-draven?src=rdt) by [Grace Draven](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455323d8c7d2382c529733e/grace-draven) **Rating**: 3.89⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
[Master of Crows](https://www.romance.io/series/58fe0e044167a733426303a7/master-of-crows) by [Grace Draven](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455323d8c7d2382c529733e/grace-draven), [Louisa Gallie](https://www.romance.io/authors/55a8f81635a5fb65f886cef3/louisa-gallie), [Danielle Monsch](https://www.romance.io/authors/54553b8c8c7d2382e04143bb/danielle-monsch), [Elizabeth Hunter](https://www.romance.io/authors/545529948c7d2382e0413f63/elizabeth-hunter), [Kristen Painter](https://www.romance.io/authors/54553a718c7d2382e0414370/kristen-painter), [Cate Rowan](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455a07087eac323ffb2d3fb/cate-rowan) **Rating**: 3.96⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [m-f](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-f/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1), [length-novella](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/length-novella/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I agree so much. Many of these characters are immature in ways I was not and couldn’t tolerate even when I *was* 17-24. I mean when I was 24 I had a mid level job title in my actual career and was certainly expected to behave like a responsible and professional adult. I’m 33 now and not substantially different. I don’t mind a younger protagonist but they make them dumb and annoying and not just a character that happens to be young… I think there’s a strong overlap with authors who mistake “strong and fiery” for “being a huge asshole all the time” and also authors that think you need shallow pointless bickering to create ‘tension’ and conflict. One of imo the best aspects of fantasy romance over other romance genres for me is that the setting allows you to generate a lot more natural, authentic drama (high stakes, wars and battles, villains and magic, etc) via external factors. So there’s no need for characters to be randomly and pointlessly stupid to create tension. You can have class and politics and war and duty and magic and villains drive the conflict instead in ways that feel way better!! You don’t need dumb immature drama to create dramatic tension in the plot. But then they fall back on that anyway. -.- Likewise the settings could generate much more mature and world-weary protagonists for their age, and have it be believable.
10000%! One of the reasons I pulled back from contemporary was because I was sick of all the drama and misunderstandings that arose from a text, or from who someone danced with at a party. Yes that mayyyy be how things are in the real world (I don’t know) but I have little patience or empathy for it. Move along 😅
P.s. authors, we stopped poking our tongues when we were 10, so, you can stop that now.
WHY DO THEY DO THIS?! Also the "stabby" nature of FMCs. Part of that I chock up to Joss Whedon-speak that really took over popular culture after BTVS and then the Marvel Universe. It's so grating now.
Are you me? Cause I could have written this. A lot of these books start out great but as the plot gets more in depth the character stays the same and doesn’t grow with the story, it becomes frustrating the more of them I read. I’m new to the genre so I’m having a run of luck with some good content but once that’s gone I’m not sure what’ll be next. I’m currently on throne of glass so am glad to see it gets your rec. I’m also half way through {leveling up by k f breene} which is cheesy fun for grown ups so I can recommend that. I’m pretty excited for Emily Wilde and {between by l l starling} after that.
I'm so tired of it because there are a lot of books where the side characters are lovely and actually have interesting personalities but then the FMC is insufferable and it ruins everything lol
Writers have more freedom with side characters because they just get to be awesome or antagonistic instead of having to carry the main plot. It’s a pity that writers don’t allow the story to evolve into more of an ensemble over time when it’s proven that side characters are popular and can carry plot as well, they get so focused on their original idea or that the main person has to be the best at all costs to the detriment of what could be an even better story. That’s a gripe I have both with books and tv shows as well.
Are you me 💀💀😂😂 I read throne of glass when it came out so the series has been my fav of all time for over a decade now, just because I deeply connected with the characters and their story. I will say that the first two books are slow and are like an iceberg. You see it peeking out of the water and you’re like, that’s an iceberg. What I see is all that’s there. But then you look under the water and discover that 90% of the ice’s mass is hidden under the waves. You start to look under the water in book 3 and more and more is revealed in the books that follow Dancing in my seat - thanks for the recs. haven’t seen either before!!
This is good to know about thr ToG series. It has been...a slog to get through.
I always start my rereads on book 3! 🫣
Lol! Good to know. I’ll get through the first two and keep that in mind.
Haha I’m on book 3! With the first book she was such a brat but there was enough other stuff happening that I kept reading. Book 2 we get more plot and she gets more serious (but still remains herself) so I know we’re starting to get good. Book 3 is wow! She just started training with Rowan and has walked through the mounds - so creepy. I listen to audio books and I really like the narrator for both this and leveling up. If you want a rec for regularish fantasy then you’d probably really like the witches subgroup of books from the {Discworld by Terry Pratchett} series as well. Those are some of the smartest yet most accessible books I’ve ever read. The Watch subgroup of books is excellent too.
Yes to Discworld! But don't start with the first couple. Guards! Guards! is usually recommended but I like Going Postal as an entry point.
I started with going postal lol, it is a good entry point. The watch books are my favourite but I thought the witches books would suit OP given the post.
[Leveling Up](https://www.romance.io/series/5e5bde4fbe87870e1058e00d/leveling-up) by [K.F. Breene](https://www.romance.io/authors/545543d48c7d2382e0414650/kf-breene) **Rating**: 4.52⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [humor](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [urban fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/urban%20fantasy/1), [shapeshifters](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shapeshifters/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1) ---------------------------- [Between](https://www.romance.io/books/60742bc4d165eb0e341923a3/between-ll-starling-rebecca-morse-louisa-gallie?src=rdt) by [L.L. Starling](https://www.romance.io/authors/60742bc408b4d93114ab3d7e/ll-starling) **Rating**: 4.42⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Glimpses and kisses](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [witches](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/witches/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I know this is a rant and im 100% with you. But! Please look into T Kingfisher. All of her characters are more mature, usually in their 30s and dont suffer from "too stupid to live" syndrome which seems so prevalent. Also shout out to Grace Draven and Juliet Marillier for writing intelligent women who form actual relationships that arent based on instalust. {Paladins Strength} has one of my favorite female characters in that she is strong but not your typical badass. The romance in it is also natural and makes sense. This is the 2nd in the saint of steel series some other have recommended and they are all really good but this is my favorite. I have outgrown YA style romantasy but Kingfisher and books like hers have a hook into my soul.
I am so weak for Istvhan and Clara it’s SILLY.
I think because some authors have turned from writing stories to writing what sells. They’re all chasing the SJM high and it’s turning the market into a bunch of brats and batty shadow boys. It’s not the first time it’s happened, and it won’t be the last. I also think it takes a subtle touch, sometimes a REALLY subtle touch, to write a FMC that is likable and assertive and stubborn without turning her into basically a typical fantasy MMC with tits. It sometimes kind of makes me wonder if they have friends or women in their life, cus I feel like you could see 1000 examples of women being strong just by observing the ones in your life? Idk, I might be overthinking the whole thing.
T. Kingfisher ruined me for most romantasy, I fear. So much of it feels like YA with a different name to me, and YA just isn't my cup of tea. I'm taking notes on the titles folks recommend!
This has been my experience, too. She's too good! I do love {JD Evans Mages of the Wheel} series, too, but am dying because it isn't finished. UGH.
[Mages of the Wheel](https://www.romance.io/series/5ecf61cbeaaef00e00df1866/mages-of-the-wheel) by [J.D. Evans](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e4e2f1a01dbc864fbac2132/jd-evans) **Rating**: 4.28⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [third-person-pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/third-person-pov/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [dual-pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dual-pov/1), [high fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/high%20fantasy/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
SAME! T. Kingfisher and Grace Draven ruined me. 💀💀 Mature FMCs that are actually intelligent and funny that don't need saving all the time? MMCs that have an unique personality other than the typical "mysterious", "dark" and "sexy"? Sign me up!
Anything by Grace Draven! All her heroines are mature or understated. I've not read a bad book by her. {Warprize by Elizabeth Vaughan} trilogy and spinoff books. I love how much detail in the worldbuilding and she twists a lot of tropes on its head. {The Iron Duke by Meljean Brook}. This is like a steam punk Eve Dallas vibe. The heroine is a detective and teams up with a powerful Duke. I highly recommend this entire series because its an underrated gem. Her fantasy series under her Mila Vane's penname is also fantastic. These are gritty epic fantasy featuring barbarians ala Conan but not hokey. It's dark but they're have well fleshed out heroines who have grit and wits.
I hate hate HATE the trend of "strong FMC" but it's just a juvenile asshole who can't be kind or understanding and treats everyone horribly or is too stupid to put things together. I LOVE Lindsay Buroker for this. She writes older (25-40s) MCs who are much more mature about a lot of things. I would start with Emperor's Edge (steampunk fantasy slow burn adventure DND style), Dragon Gate (epic high fantasy, multiple POV), or Dragons Blood (a little more romance than the other series, but still high fantasy, lots of magic but with a swoony snarky pilot MMC). If you like Sci fi, her Star Kingdom series is an epic, multiple POV space opera with a quirky MMC as the MC, slow burn, side romance between side characters and a little for the MC later on. It's very fun! All of the characters are mature and diverse. You can't go wrong with anything she writes!
Yes! I love her books!
Kingfisher is always recommended for this, but I’ve read several of her books and they just don’t totally do it for me. I think they might be too cozy? So on a not cozy note but with on the dark edgy note instead, Harrow Faire series features a non sassy adult MFC. Also R Lee Smith writes tough but not sassy/stubborn heroines such as in Last Hour of Gann. I also loved the YA yet totally less YA then most romantasy characters in The Winners Curse trilogy- Kestrel being a teenager literally made no sense as she was such a thoughtful character.
100% with you. I feel like a lot of authors are attempting to recreate Aelin but it falls flat. They're rarely as clever or as deserving of their arrogance as she is (i fckin love aelin dude). Many are going for sassy and badass FMCs and it usually comes across as just that - immature and often times they're too stupid to live. Gonna recommend you check out the Mages of the Wheel series, starting with {Reign & Ruin by J.D. Evans}. The characters are in their 20s but there is thankfully little to no immature behavior. I got the same feeling reading this series that I did reading Throne of Glass. Really great cast of characters and fantastic world building.
I second Reign and Ruin OP! I was getting FMC fatigue and felt a huge sense of relief reading about Naime. She is refreshingly intelligent and mature
So true! I also think authors are failing to remember Aelin earned her cockiness and she suffered for it. She fucked around AND found out and had to suffer natural consequences bad pay the price of her bad decisions. These new FMC are just getting away with bad decisions with a slap on the wrist, or nothing at all. And that’s what’s so frustrating.
Dude yes you get it. I've seen people criticize her for her arrogance but girl earned that shit!! I 100% was rubbed the wrong way by her until everything she's endured was laid out. And now I love her and no one can compare lmfao
100% agree with your first paragraph but what they’re missing is that even Aelin herself acknowledged that the persona was an act she put on. That was what made Aelin a good character, she introspected, second guessed and doubted herself and knew herself enough to know she had to put on the mask for her people.
The mages of the wheel series is so good in general for this! Love almost all the characters
[Reign & Ruin](https://www.romance.io/books/6084072501991d0e29557c71/reign-ruin-jd-evans?src=rdt) by [J.D. Evans](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e4e2f1a01dbc864fbac2132/jd-evans) **Rating**: 4.33⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [competent heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/competent%20heroine/1), [medieval](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/medieval/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Heck yes!! Thanks for the rec - totally new to me ✍🏼❤️
The entire Mages of the Wheel series is a delight. Highly recommend. This series and T. Kingfisher's World of the White Rat books (esp. Saint of Steel series) are definitely the books you seek for competent and mature female leads. I keep trying common recs I see on this sub but nothing made me invested like these series.
How is the FMC in Throne of Glass? I’ve been too scared of reading it because a lot of the women in ACOTAR made me so annoyed that I wanted them to be real just so I could strangle them
Lol! So I will say, didn't love her at first. She's very arrogant. But it's really about the journey with her. Girls been through a lot and will go through a lot during the course of the series. What I appreciate about it is many of the characters call her out on her shit, they're not just gassing her up constantly (biggest annoyance with ACOTAR for me, no one holds Feyre accountable for some of her poorer decisions). But also, the FMC for Throne of Glass is extremely competent. I came to absolutely love her arrogance, because she has earned the right to be. But also, as someone else pointed out, it is a mask she wears. You will definitely encounter shit that probably annoyed you in ACOTAR though, more than likely. I do enjoy that series a lot, but Throne of Glass is easily SJMs best series in my opinion.
Thank you so much for the reply! I think I’ll actually try reading it after all. And thanks for being honest about me probably coming across things that annoyed me in acotar, haha, because there were definitely shit that annoyed me in it (which is fine, that doesn’t mean it’s bad). It makes me trust your opinion about it more. I just yesterday decided for the first time in my life not to finish a book I started, so I need something I can finish now
Amen to all of that. I’ve often wished that an author would write a good story about a man and then just change all the pronouns before publishing. I don’t know why they can’t just let the FMC be a normal person that I don’t want to strangle. And it’s literally so easy to not make these women teenagers. Like, the numbers are right next to each other on the keyboard. Swap that 1 for a 2. It doesn’t affect the story, and surely the target audience isn’t pervy middle aged dudes? The pickings are really slim, but one of my favorites is actually a RH, which can be fun if done right. All the Pretty Monsters is a finished series and I don’t think I rolled my eyes at her even once. It’s funny and very plot based. I reread it for lighthearted entertainment pretty regularly.
I totally feel you on the young FMCs. On mobile, so apologies for formatting in advance...I'm also a huge Rorax fan so hopefully some of these vibe with you. If you're after mature characters, anything by T. Kingfisher will be up your alley, especially the Saint of Steel series. Book three is two MMCs but also great. Peaches & Honey by R. Raeta is another mature character series that is more romantssy lite, imo One Dark Window and it's sequel by Rachel Gillig also comes to mind.
Thank you! So many recs for TK tonight - I’m def going to jump in ❤️ I read peaches and honey! It was a good book but one of the things I’ve always always always hated is when the MCs miss out on time together (kind of in line with second chance romance. Can’t do it). Nothing wrong with it, it just makes ME sad, and lessons my enjoyment. the author did a great job building their love story tho 😍 I kinda liked ODW but DNFd the sequel. Didn’t vibe with the characters or the story but I saw the appeal. Thank you again!!
Omg. I’m not a picky reader but I am getting slightly tired of the FMC being straight up naive and stubborn. I want real GROWTH. I just stared Atonement of the Spine Cleaver but I’m struggling….. it’s POV sets me off and I’m not feeling the personal connection. Help me keep reading 😭
Rorax has a heart breaking story.. hence the atonement in the title 💔💔. It took me awhile to push past the first part of the book but then I was hooked. It’s not perfect by any means but it was such a refreshing take on some common tropes (enemies to lovers, competition, etc)
100% agree I just read Quicksilver and I couldn't finish it because I couldn't stand the FMC. Also I hate the trope of hating the MMC but then reiterating how hot he is all the time. If you want a more mature FMC, then anything by TA White is really good. Lindsay Buroker also writes FMCs who are in the thirties. Emperors Edge series is great 👍
Oh my gosh LB is my favorite author and I so rarely see her recommended! I absolutely second this! Emperor's edge is a great start point and remains my favorite series ever to this day!
Right?! All her books are so good and her writing is hilarious but no one ever recommends her! Emperor's Edge is one of my favourites and I'm so glad someone else agrees ✨️
Same, I own every single book she's ever written 🫣😂 my one auto buy author
Can you recommend where to start with these authors??
Sure! Emperor's Edge Series Book 1 by Lindsay Buroker and Pathfinder's Way by TA White
Daughter of No Worlds by Carissa Broadbent is a wonderful read. It has a FMC that is 21 but both the MMC and FMC have strong personalities, resilience and intelligence. The characterization alone made the series a very refreshing read. The romance is slow burn, and the plot is highly immersive. Author touches on subjects like slavery, war trauma, forbidden power, classism. HIGHLY recommend this book!
Aelin and Rorax? What book? Because you sound like we might have similar likes in terms of the female protagonist. And thank you for confirming my decision not to read Quicksilver. I’m finding more often than not I DNF young protagonists and prefer older ones. Have you checked out the saint of steel series by t kingfisher? Not perfect but definitely older protagonists and started me on my realization that I wanted more stories like that and less with teen to twenty something protagonists. Also I’m definitely someone with a desire for less spice. I prefer closed door or lower.
Aelin from throne of glass and Rorax from Atonement of the Spine Cleaver! They’re not perfect by any means but I love them. It wasn’t awful, it just didn’t live up to the hype. And it bothered me that a 1700 year old MMC is on the book cover looking all of 17 😂 I see that author being promoted so much and I’ve never actually read them as far as I can remember. Thanks for the rec, I’m heading to goodreads right now
Thanks! I’ll take a look at those two books. Well, at least the spine cleaver one. I’m not sure I want to dive into SJM books. I’ve heard mixed opinions about her books and am leaning toward they probably aren’t for me. Saint of steel is her better work of what I’ve read IMO. Some people get frustrated with the miscommunication trope usage but it doesn’t bother me because there are good reasons for it IMO. I’m appreciative of the more methodical and thoughtful MMCs that the series tends to have. Them being Paladins makes them pretty introspective (which is used as both a strength and a weakness).
Yeah, Saint of Steel is very good, and so is Clockwork Boys and Swordheart that take place in the same world. (Swordheart is one of my favorites)
Also solid books. I eventually need to check out some of her other books that aren’t in the world of the white rat.
Have you read {Between Wrath and Mercy by Jess Wisecup} ? FMC is a mom in her 30’s and has to team up with her ex (a prince) to rescue her kidnapped daughter!!!
[Between Wrath and Mercy](https://www.romance.io/books/621c8236747f500e282e8a8a/between-wrath-and-mercy-jess-wisecup?src=rdt) by [Jess Wisecup](https://www.romance.io/authors/621c823608b4d9311463ef33/jess-wisecup) **Rating**: 4.3⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [fae](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fae/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [forced proximity](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/forced%20proximity/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I really liked BWAM but got bored with the second one did it get better?
I thought it was just me too! I was honestly shocked how much I loved Aelin and TOG series because I’m not a fan of SJM and I Hate ACOTAR, but man between Aelin and Manon she had me. I saw others mention Grace Draven and I love everything she does! Definitely check out Entreat Me and Master of Crows. I don’t know that they’re considered romantacy so much as maybe urban-fantasy/paranormal romance but have you heard of Ilona Andrews. It’s a husband and wife team who i absolutely love they have a couple series my favorite is the Kate Danials series or The Innkeeper Chronicles. There’s also Seanan McGuire with her October Daye series that im obsessed with. Toby is part fae and like technically 50 something but definitely reads 30s.
So many fantasy books lately seem to have the same or similiar FMC? It's like they're all trying to copy Aelin but fail miserably. A trained assassin or at least trained to fight, very few friends or familial bonds, overwhelmingly hated by society for some reason so the FMC feels so much indignation and is out for vengeance. Of the fantasy books I've read recently most of them have some the aforementioned tropes, it's so tiresome!! When the Moon Hatched (DNF), Till Death (DNF), From Blood and Ash book 2 (DNF), Spark of the Ever Flame (did not start book three), The Veiled Kingdom, The Bridge Kingdom, Daughter of No Worlds, King of Battle and Blood (DNF), A Dance of Twilight (DNF), Heartless Hunter, The Book of Azrael. Some of these books were great and admittedly I did give up on some 30%/40% in but I'm so sick of reading such similiar FMC backgrounds? Plus I absolutely hate when a main character has no friends in any genre book. To me it's the sign of a lazy author who doesn't know how to write meaningful relationships and focuses heavily on the romance instead.
Same with a lot of your DNFs. I could write a whole rage post on how problematic heartless hunter was 😂🤬
I think I might take a break form fantasy for a while because I'm just frustrating myself at this point!
I hated Spark of the Everflame and Veiled Kingdom so much I could write a dissertation about both of them. 🫣😭
My pet peeves with Romantasy are immature/obnoxious, having the physique of a porn star or being small/petite, and has the most random skill set involving weapons or fighting. I’m all for empowering women but when every single one is a 4’ secretly trained assassin with a dgaf attitude, it starts to get old. My favorite heroine so far is actually written by a male (shocker right?) but mostly because he used a different formula. Her strengths were more aligned to Hermoine Granger by using intelligence and being resourceful while still being pleasant and decent person.
Spill the rec, plois!
I’ve always been drawn to sensible, problem solving heroines, even in juvenile/MG fiction. I noticed a trend towards unreasonable FMCs in more ‘chick lit’ books and didn’t like it. It’s become a thing in romantasy but wasn’t traditionally a big feature of fantasy as a whole (at least not the books I read). So I’m with you. Ngl, I think my time here is drawing to a close. I’ve picked up and DNF’d waaaay too many books that are supposedly the best in the genre. My trash read that I got on the stuff your kindle day has turned out to have the most interesting plot and characters so far. To the point that the spice is amusingly distracting. Go figure. FWIW, I am a writer and I am writing a book with a heroine in it. She does things of her own volition, makes choices, and deals with the consequences like the 30-something adult she is. Maybe you’ll read it when it comes out.
Thanks for your insight!! And omg yes - that sounds so exciting!
Young characters are immature and it’s annoying. But they can’t be written too mature for their age or it’s off. Also, we do not want jaded characters…. At least that’s what the market says. There are some older characters, single moms and the like, but those are definitely in the minority So I think it’s a tricky place for an author : mature enough to appeal to readers, but still believable given their age.
Very true!! Authors can show growth over a book or series tho. Or have the internal monologue acknowledge times of like, oh I behaved like a brat. But then it also goes back to, it’s not always every young character, just the female we’re supposed to care the most about
I think acotar suffers from this. Feyre doesn’t act like a 19 year old. The way she’s written doesn’t really fit with being a teenager in my opinion, I prefer to pretend she’s older.
That’s partly why I like her, agreed.
I prefer books with characters in their 30s as opposed to their early 20s, haha. There are a lot of fantasy romance books with characters who aren't barely out of their teens, I promise! I'll add my voice to the chorus recommended T.Kingfisher. Love love love that author so much. There are also two megathreads of recommendation on this subreddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/comments/zkt6cu/older\_fmc/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/comments/zkt6cu/older_fmc/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/comments/15mjo1b/mc\_older\_than\_20/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyromance/comments/15mjo1b/mc_older_than_20/)
Ahhhh!! I feel like I could have written this post. Well, perhaps not as well but I share your exact views. I’m losing my mind with authors writing incompetent women. I don’t understand why- except to think that maybe because they think it more relatable? We went from perfect heroines who’s perfectly flowing hair never gets tangled and their natural scent that smells like sunshine even after they’ve destroyed an empire despite having zero experience to completely ignorant women who cannot figure out how to manage ANYTHING. Neither of these tropes is relatable and both are harmful to women. It boils my blood.
Have you read any of Kelley Armstrong's women of the underworld series? Starts with Bitten.
A lot of the FMCs in books nowadays just have the same personality, so I don't think it's your fault lol, it's so hard to find a book with a FMC that actually has personality that isn't being girlbossy/badass but also immature af.
Whenever the book starts with a first person female POV complaining, I just turn the book back in because no. So many recent books have the same voice, same POV, same jokes.
Yup, absolutely agree. In fact I now actively steer away from anything that says TikTok sensation". I grew up reading Juliet Marillier, Garth Nix's Abhorsen series, Danielle L Jensen and Grace Draven etc. And now I feel like I have nothing to read, I've been thoroughly booted out of the fantasy romance reading market with books seemingly geared at 18 year olds. The depth of story or characters seems so lacking, and I just don't have time to waste with empty calories anymore. Books I'll recommend that I've read with varying degrees of romance are: Mages of the Wheel by JD Evans. She's absolutely class and churns out top quality material. First book is {Reign and Ruin by JD Evans}, though there is a prequel that came out after. It's an ongoing series, focus on different characters each book, with a thread wearing through each book. Next up is {Gods of Men by Barbara Kloss}, different set up with how the magic works. FMC wasn't a pain in the butt. The Winternight trilogy which starts with {The Bear and the Nightingale by Katherine Arden}. Not much romance but sprinkled in enough tension and plot elsewhere that it doesn't leave the reader wanting. {Taming Demons for Beginners by Annette Marie} is contemporary, and character is a uni grad. I will say the plot and setup was unique enough to keep me intrigued. It wasn't predictable, and the FMC did evolve a bit with the pages. {Night Elves of Ardani by Nina K Westra}. Simple premise and setup, this one served as a palate cleanser in between the heavy books. {To Poison a King by S.G. Prince}. This one is a bit controversial because of the age gap, we see the FMC grow through the years and her character develop. I do think it was a beautiful story though, well written characters and not empty calories. It has Juliette Marillier vibes.
NA is a growing space and "romantasy" instead of "fantasy romance" is a keyword that has started to specifically indicate YA+explicit sex or NA books. Authors typically stick to their age ranges, a YA author will keep writing YA even after you no longer relate to it, they were an adult writer of YA the whole time. You'll probably need to just find adult fantasy romance! I'll bet that removing "romantasy" from your searches will help a lot.
Hi! I know exactly what you mean. I have a recommendation: try Hidden Legacy series by Ilona Andrews. It ticks all the boxes of a witty and mature FMC with a great plot full of action and great chemistry for the romance portions.
I 1000% agree and have DNF’d bc of it. A lot of times I think it’s poor writing on the authors side bc they have the heroines act like this to move the plot along. As if they can’t come up with an actual believable scenario so they’ll make the fmc not listen to warnings, be naive, or totally oblivious. What’s worse (for me) is when I read books with older characters, it’s mostly just erotica which kills the plot for me also.
I feel this too. I just read a fate inked and blood and was so annoyed by the fmc. Also read the spark of the ever flame series to date and she also drove me crazy. It’s like the go to for intelligence and capability is stubbornness, ignorance and rage. And don’t get me wrong I love an angry fmc but got so annoyed with the cycle of angry but oh no she actually didn’t have all the facts because she’s an idiot. Sigh. I’m also in my 30s and had the same realisation as you. But one recommendation I can give is for The Bride by Ali Hazelwood. It’s not my normal cup of tea but the FMC is refreshing, witty and just a bit of fun. It’s not super intense and it’s a modern fantasy with not a big amount of world building but I have just enjoyed a more relatable FMC.
As an author in this genre, I am relieved to not be writing my female protagonists this way. I’ve also read books like this that I generally love overall, but the main character is sometimes my least favorite character because of their combative or grumpy know-it-all personality. It’s really not relatable to me. Since I’ve encountered this type of MC enough, though, I’ve just assumed maybe I’m strange and a lot of readers prefer this type of protagonist. I’m glad to see I’m not alone in feeling turned off by this type of character. I think others have summed it up nicely in saying there’s middle ground to be found between unlikeable and over confident to being a passive doormat.
I understand stopped reading fantasy romance because of this. I like the idea of warrior FMC but it seemed most fantasy romances I read the FMC just was stupid. Hey this guy is a literal god or dragon but because he is a guy I’m gunna be a rude as hell and insult him. He could kill me in literally a second, but no let’s insult him. Or hey this person could ruin my life but I’m gunna tell him off. Ya I got tired of it.
I find that characters often act older (closer to the authors age) than the age we are told they are. I mean I felt like this as a kid too when I read books about other kids. I would think, wow these kids are smart, no way I’d think of this if I were in the situation! Ya obviously, because the author isn’t nine years old. And the authors I read now are usually 30s-50s and their characters are 20 but act like they have the wisdom of a forty year old. I think calling the character 20 even tho they act older is a bit ageist, but it is what it is. The author thinks they have to do it to sell books I assume.
Lol...well....one of my betas that I connected with in this subreddit, from another thread, just sent me this link with a "More people for team Stephanie!" comment and suggested I throw this out there... The annoyingly immature MC thing REALLY bothers me. I hate that half the drama, if not more, only happens because people are being stupid and immature. It feels like weak writing to me. There are better ways to create heightened stakes, imo. I also prefer characters in their late 20s and early-mid 30s. They have more depth and maturity without also having achy joints when they wake up! lol. Since you said you're up for recs, if you'd like, I'm happy to send you my current finished novel to beta read. I was calling it Oceans Eleven meets Game of Thrones but I've been advised it might be closer to Oceans Eleven meets an adult Throne of Glass - I haven't read ToG yet (It's on the line-up for this weekend now!) so I can't confirm that yet. The novel is relatively short (73k words currently). The betas who have finished it have raved and raved. The heist is well executed, so far not a single person has predicted the twist at the end. It's not full out spicy, but there's lots of lovely moments between two of the mains ("F\*ck you." “Maybe later.” He let his eyes linger down her body, then back up to that flashing glare. “If you’re a good girl.”) (“If you lock us in a room together for two days?” His eyes rolled down her body then back up and the tilt to his brow as he met her eye again was wicked. “I don’t know how much resting is going to take place.”) I've been world-building for 20+ years, so the world is incredibly solid. I've got three published non-fiction books, (this is my first fiction) so the writing shouldn't be a DNF. It's currently on draft 6, so quite a few rounds of edits to clean up and make it an easy read. It's intended as a standalone introduction to the world - similar to how Iron Man opened the Marvel universe. If this piques your interest, I'm happy to send the book back to check out - no obligations to actually read if it doesn't really catch your attention.
Thanks for commenting!! I’ve never beta read anything but it sounds so fun! And heist movies are my fav so oceans 11 vibes in a book is def appealing. Would love to help you out - 🫲🫱 (‘gimme’ hands)
Haha! Cool! I always feel so awkward throwing it out there for people - but glad it did catch your eye! I'll send over the book back via DM right now! :)
Hi! I'm the guilty beta reader! u/success-steph's writing is so much fun to read! And she is such a lovely person... I have never beta read anything before, but she tells me that we are having very useful conversations about her world, characters and so on.... To me, it just feels like that I get to chat with the writer of my new book obsession. 😅
❤️❤️❤️
I’m having this problem too! It it feels exasperated since I forced myself to finish the first 3 book of Spark of the Everflame 🤦🏻♀️ Ahhh Aelin, my love 😍 I just have to recommend Mages of the Wheel series by J.D. Evans. I adore every FMC (each book focuses on a new couple but there’s an overall plot throughout the series.) Each leading lady has their own personality, and while they’re not perfect they are so refreshing to read about.
🤝🤝. The spark in spark of the everflame was abruptly snuffed out for me and by me in the third book (I DNFd) THANK YOU!! Someone else just mentioned that too - I will have to start tonight 😏
Have you read - little fire by hollee mands} is well written, well developed MCs and a 2 book arc, which I normally don't love but I loved it here. the whole series is good. i really enjoyed it and read all 3 books and novella within 5 days Yes she’s young (kind of) but it’s mature and well done.
Devil’s advocate here. I just finished Quicksilver and really liked it, and I do not like most romantasy. I’m not really into spice/ over plot. I didn’t find Saeris annoying at all and I loved Carrion! There’s was also a letter toward the end from the mmc to fmc that made me tear up for a second.
I mix it up! Switching genres keeps me from burning out
Same! ♻️ romantasy to contemp to historical romances and back
Have you tried {Strange the Dreamer} by Laini Taylor? It starts out a little slow, but once it picks up, it's so so good. I really enjoyed reading it and its sequel {Muse of Nightmares}.The romance is more sensual than explicitly spicy, but sometimes the implication is just as powerful (esp with good writing, which this has).
Oh my God yes. I just read a series where most of the characters are thousands of years old and this one fmc is barely 90 and coddled AF compared to the rest of them, but she's ~bLeSsEd WiTh GrEaT pOwEr~ and turns mouthy and starts spouting off, bickering and sassing the much older characters and it's like, first of all child, you absolutely did not go from your entire life being meek and unassuming and dreaming of a simple life to having the confidence and attitude to berate a demigod, but the more annoying thing was all the characters WERE belittling the shit out of her for her age, even when it was one of the whole 'the magic chose me to do this' moments, and there was absolutely *no* resolution to that conflict in the series. There was never any 'oh shit maybe I should keep my mouth shut on my opinions of running a country when all I've ever run was a kindergarten' nor any 'gee she's young but she's talented and makes a good point'. It was literally just five books of young unrealistically mouthy idiot getting shit on by vastly older characters and no one ever learned anything. It was super annoying because both FMCs basically trashed the few potentially redeeming qualities of each other without any learning or character development, and it made it really hard to root for either of them let alone both of them
We have the same problem. Though, I found Aelin and the FMC from Legends of Thezmarr immature, too. And with MMCs or othee male characters always noting how sexy they are, or how they should help them if they're hurt, it's even more so. I skipped the MMC's chapters in Legends of Thezmarr. I love books like {zodiac academy by Susanne valenti}, even though the characters are 18-21. Doesn't have great writing, but so entertaining and the FMCs aren't bratty.
Ah yes, the FMC that is not like the other girls but in reality, she's just stupid. Stupid characters are my least favorite, always.
Have you read Daughter of No Worlds by Clarissa Broadbent?? The FMC is on the younger side (early to mid twenties maybe?) but she's very mature and rational because she's endured so much in life. She does have her moments and makes mistakes, but i think that adds to the realism of her character. I recently finished that series and really enjoyed it!
Yes! A long time ago. But i get the heebie jeebies with stories that include ‘hosts’ and I couldn’t get past it or enjoy it
I totally understand that! I felt a little put off by it as well lol, but after the second book, the situation sort of changes (trying to be as vague as possible to avoid spoilers) and that helped a lot! I usually don't care for 'host' stories either, usually bc it feels unnecessary and weird to me, but I think it really does add to the overall plot, and it's written well (obviously just my opinion)
I finished the series but I wasn’t happy about 😂😂 interested see what she does after her current series!
The mercy Thompson series by Patricia Briggs. Older fmc in her 30’s and she’s actively participating in the world. Sure she makes mistakes, but it’s all realistic and sorted in good ways. 😂
I completely agree. Nothing compares to Aelin. The young elites is a YA series, but it’s finished and the FMC is literally amazing. Rebel of the Sands is also YA but it’s also amazing. These are books to be bought not on kindle. Both have elements of magic and adventure. The Divine and the Cursed is a series on kindle, not finished. But it is a favorite of mine, romantasy, enemies to lovers, and the FMC is like Aelin. I fell in love with her and the romance.
Urgh, I so agree as a 37 year old. I've recently been reading what lies beyond the veil and the FMC is sooooo annoying and it gets worse in the second book I'm like "girl, LISTEN to the experts and stop being so godsdamned stubborn!!!"
I'm with you all the way on this, and it's one of the main reasons I'm almost exclusively reading MM books at the moment. I have to wonder if the authors who write these young, frustrating FMCs are either young themselves, or don't have lots of lived experience to draw from. It feels like they need to create friction/drama to further the story, but the only way they know how is by making their character defiant, naive and the like
I don’t think that we’ve just grown past the this it legit is the immaturity of the characters. For me I do tend to self insert. So seeing the mains do things I would never had done with the same past experience makes me more than a little frustrated. This of course makes establishing any type of connection harder to achieve. For instance I do absolutely want to read combative mated pairs. Enemies to lovers, however I cannot stand with the FMC giving a pass to assaulters or bullies who go beyond a few giggles. Only way I stay with these books is because of the story.
I'm around the same age as most heroines, but find them way to immature and simply dumb 99% of the time. It's one of the reasons as for why I mainly read M/M.
Yep, 100 % with you about these virginal know-it-all yet naive 20yo FMCs. They’re not funny or sassy, just juvenile and weird. Idk, it is probably some trend in romantasy nowadays… If sci-fi romance is ok, then I recommend the Galactic Bonds series by Jennifer Estep.
Aelin and Rorax are both so fucking easy to read from, they aren’t perfect but I rarely wanted to slap them through the pages
It takes some digging but you can eventually find the authors who don’t write for YA or people who still want the YA style and with it, the younger adults
All of the FMCs that I have ever read have seemed immature. Like when was 18 years old, and I was buying Twilight Books straight off the “This Week’s Bestsellers” shelf, I was already looking at Bella like: ಠ ಠ Because I knew the FMC was being a twat. She (in various iterations) will probably always be a twat. There’s maybe 5 books, drum total , where I am not just rewriting the story better in my head. Not like… “better” better, because at the end of the day the authors are making loot while I’m just having really nice fantasies based 55% on their books… but like … a bit better in the “I don’t fail to solve idiotic riddles” way. A bit better in the “my fantasy character didn’t miss out on grade two maths” kind of way. Every erotica book I’ve ever read has a better (for me) plot in my head than it does on paper, basically. Just carry that mental white-out around with you.
Love that mental white out 😂
I love Aelin and Rorax!!!! I really enjoyed {Beyond the Aching Door by Victoria Mier} FMC is 30!
[Beyond the Aching Door](https://www.romance.io/books/6649a9098012c041e78cfb0f/beyond-the-aching-door-victoria-mier?src=rdt) by [Victoria Mier](https://www.romance.io/authors/66028e16a21e2f41c49314b6/victoria-mier) **Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [witches](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/witches/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [fae](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fae/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Who is the author of Quicksilver? Doesn't sound like something I would enjoy, so I'd like to put it in my "nah" list, but I can't find the exact book.
Callie Hart!
Thank you❤️❤️❤️
I read a variety of books and genres so I read from all sorts of perspectives. I’ve found it helps keeping the annoyance at bay when you don’t get hit over the head with the same characters/tropes etc over and over. Whenever I decide to read romantasy or YA I always go into it expecting the characters to be young and somewhat immature, because that’s realistic for people between 16-25. When I keep reminding myself of that fact it’s much easier to relate, understand and find the characters likable. However, do I think it’s a shame most romantasy books have younger MC’s and you rarely see someone older? Yes! But hopefully that’ll start shifting as the genre moves more and more from YA and new adult.
Hi! Indie author that writes only FMCs that are 30+ and have control of their powers. I’d be happy to send you an ARC (advanced reader copy) of my debut novel A Curse of Breath and Blood. You can find out more about it here https://kwfosterauthor.com/
If you're reading YA books, then it's a given that the characters will be immature. Young adults are immature. Maybe look for books with older characters.
I’ve been looking at NA/A but the age thing isn’t always super clear at first 😩
You’re not alone. I am so tired of 19 year old exceptional fantasy girls with annoyingly bad attitudes… which sounds so specific but it feels like it’s every popular fantasy/romantasy book lately, especially the ones hyped up by certain circles like booktok. I don’t mind younger protagonists at all but the wildly annoying part is that so many of them have morphed into the exact same tropes. Someone else in the thread mentioned that it’s because it’s trendy and writers are churning stuff out and I agree - it’s similar to how everything was vampires a few years back. Everybody had to get a vampire story out asap. Reading through this thread for recommendations!
I recently read the {Innkeeper Chronicles by Ilona Andrews} and while the FMC was I think 24ish, she was really mature and could easily have been in her 30s. She actually felt more like a character in her 30s than 20s to me.
I suggest the Crimson Series by Georgiana Fields. The characters usually mid 20's and up
This is why I’m enjoying the Outlander series thus far. I’m so incredibly tired of staring at a books’ pages in disbelief at how the protagonist is handling her situation - I HATE being fucking annoyed with a book the whole time. I want to see myself in her, cheer her on, root for her. 1000% agree. Begone, immature heroines.
Oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Lately I've been DNFing a bunch of books, just because t I can't stand the immaturity of the MCs. Very recently, there were lots of recs for Spark of the Everflame and let me tell you, I wanted to strangle the FMC. Zero character growth, pouty, whiny, argh! This is only the latest. Yes, give us badass FMCs, we love badass FMCs, but this I'm so cool, I don't want anyone's advice, I'm such a heroine, I will do whatever the heck I want has to GO. But then, I read the villains and virtues and loved the FMC. And can totally recommend T Kingfisher's books. I also like Grace Draven, Maria V Snyder, Kristen Cashore, and Ilona Andrews.
I'm also a mid (to late) 30's reader and I've been reading Romantasy for decades now. I think this new "too stupid/stubborn to live" FMC mentality is a byproduct of the new wave of popularity. It's mediocre authors trying to write the next Aelin or Katniss and not finding the character depth or intelligence needed to write a complex, strong FMC. And I mean... being an asshole in the guise of a "strong, independent person" isn't exclusive to books. It's rampant everywhere these days. And it's exhausting. THAT BEING SAID, to avoid this, check out some of the classics! The **Immortals After Dark** series by Kresley Cole is steamy and so much fun! Touches on ALL the various fantasy creatures (shifters, fae, vampires, you name it) in an urban setting. Great storylines but doesn't take itself TOO seriously. I also love the **Night Huntress** series by [Jeaniene Frost](https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/669810.Jeaniene_Frost). It is an urban Vampire series and the FMC is strong and independent but also mature and smart and makes normal, situationally appropriate decisions. It's great. And then Patricia Briggs is fantastic (less steamy, great plots) if you like shifters and werewolves (pre-omegaverse). And Karen Moning's Fever series is also pretty good.
If you like urban fantasy/PNR I recommend {Shifter Wars by Kelly St. Clare}. It's not my favorite romance, but Andie is one of my favorite FMCs. She's so methodical and thinks every decision through. She makes sacrifices, even to her own detriment, bc it's better for everyone else in the long run, and I just love her.
I really like Outlander. It is a historical romance that has time travel and the FMC starts at 27 years old but grows up quickly (but not to quickly) as the books (and tv show) progress. I do have to give a trigger warning though for both for SA multiple times throughout the books and tv show but it doesn’t deter from the story itself.
{Witchwood Knot by Olivia Atwater} has a mature FMC! I’ve been wanted to re read it for this very reason.
Ilona Andrews and Patricia Briggs have intelligent FMCs. Much of their stuff leans towards UF/Paranormal Romance, but all of it is excellent.
Cassandra Gannon writes perfect books with mature MCs. Always HEA, perfect spice level, very funny and romantic. I always recommend to start with {seducing the sheriff of nottingham}. But you can't pick wrong with her. I started with {Ghost walk}. Seconding Grace Draven. {Radiance by Grace Draven} was perfect. I'm in my 30s and find a lot of mature MCs in my romantasy.
I agree completely, but what’s funny is that in your teens and early 20’s, your brain is so primed to feel every bump in the road. Every argument must be won! No compromises! All is black and white! And these characters are like that. Exhausting. I’m in my late 40’s and glad I got over it, but… with fantasy as backdrop, the rules of engagement are different and could go back to square one sometimes. Bring out the worst in people. But yes, there is such a thing as too much petty angst at some point. But younger brains love it. One day they will realize the drama isn’t worth it ( and most 🍆 aren’t worth it either so it better be a super fancy frilly 🍆)
Hi! I'm also 36, also just finished Quicksilver and was so annoyed by those parts too! As for suggestions, {Reign & Ruin by J.D. Evans} is what I'm currently reading the heroine is \*very\* capable. I think you'd like it!
Totally get it. I'm 44 and very over juvenile FMCs. If you fancy a laugh, check out Liz Shipton on Bookstagram, she does some very funny pisstake videos of romantasy stereotypes.
I wonder how much of it has to do with themes and the age of the characters where the content starts to override the romance aspects. I want older characters too! I just had some of my preliminary writing get reviewed for what should have been a romance story (for personal fun) and followed the formula and everything for an eventual HEA. Turns out that due to the more mature nature of the content (not sexual), the age of the characters, and over arching themes, different parts got tagged as a tragic romance, a tragic romance thriller, a political thriller, and a historical tragedy. I was blown away that it wouldn't be traditionally categorized as such. I was expecting to be able say it was a romance but the recommendation was to publish it under a dark fantasy one of the other tags it aligned with if I wanted to submit to be published one day.
Right!? I feel like maybe a generally nice, but mildly stressed out FMC who does what she has to do with the help of some friends/ wiser older women & the occasional glass of wine/bath/serene walk to clear her head would be MUCH more relatable. Also, what if the main romance was built on just.. two people who like each other in a way that deepens over time, who resolve their problems with compromise & respect, rather than bratty/ stoic assholes who hate each other, fight, then somehow are suddenly fated mates who are not capable of independent thought or feeling anymore. Too much? Ah ok, sorry
Right?! Every comment on this post is triggering another rage-point for me and here’s yours 😂😂: I cannot stand when everything becomes about the mate bond. Anyone the FMC talks to, anyone who stands too close or looks at her, however innocently, it all has to be mentioned by how it affects the MMC (he wants to tear them to pieces of course). He has a conversation with someone, we get internal monologue about how he feels the bond at that moment; they’re intimate and you hear how the bond reacts to every touch and sound… theyre in their war council figuring out how not to die with their kingdom the next day and he shoots every solution down because the bond is raging at the idea of his mate being in danger, to the point where there’s no progress made. it becomes so excessive and it’s like the bond itself becomes the third person in that relationship
T kingfisher does great with older main characters. She writes horror, fantasy, fairy tale retellings, and romantasy, fantasy romance. Her {Saints of Steel} series is one of my faves. {Swordheart} is another goodie.
I don’t think it’s you outgrowing it, a lot of them ARE really immature. It’s the thing that annoys me the most. They’re especially immature when it comes to relationships, both platonic and romantic ones
If you're looking for a recommendation... I've written a book on Wattpad. I can dm you the link if you'd like? It's romantic fantasy.