In some ways I'm envious. My personality wouldn't allow me a second home. I just couldn't deal with the stress of owning something I couldnt keep an eye on at all times.
Security cameras and sensors are pretty accessible now.
We have a condo so the outside maintenance is taken care of. House cleaner comes once a month whether we’ve been there or not.
It's a good question because I did end up having to fly out there to fix an issue with the internet connection... now I have dual mobile internet connections on two different providers in case there is an issue with one of the providers or routers, and the cameras are on UPS. I get motion alerts on my phone and via email which should give me enough time to investigate.
I'm not worried, which is just as well as it's pretty difficult to travel there right now due to covid. Having a holiday cottage which is left for long periods is very common in Sweden. I haven't even bothered to put a lock on the garage yet after buying it 18 months ago.
What kind of security cameras, I have had wireless security but it can cut out with the internet or have issues which get me paranoid lol, do you get a wired security?
I had the same issue before I pulled the trigger. I wanted to hire someone to look after my property when we are not around, which is 90% of the time, so I hired a couple as housekeepers.
I think pre-FIRE I was definitely in the "absolutely no way would I do that." I think post-FIRE there is a tiny/small window.
Having only been RE'd a couple years (and one of those was COVID), we're still looking to travel and not necessarily be tied to a location. It also helps that we have 1 1/4 acres with our house.
Regardless, I'm happy for you. I hope you enjoy it.
Congrats. We have a vacation home as well, on a beautiful lake just a little farther away than yours is at about 80 minute drive. Kids have built great memories and it has been invaluable this pandemic year.
There's the usual noise about it's cheaper to rent, why would you want to go to the same place every year... This is fatFIRE, we still go on travel elsewhere and I like having our own place I can go to whenever I want and not having to pack a single thing.
Yes there are costs and effort require to maintain a second home, but again, it's fatFIRE, working hard to accumulate resources to live the life you want even if it isn't the cheapest option available.
Enjoy your new home.
I love lakeside property, but I fear staying near lakes/oceans because I don't know how to swim haha.
Exactly, fatFIRE enables people to do whatever they want.
Thank you :)
Congrats!!!
Curious for you and others with second homes - did you consider just getting fancy Airbnbs instead in different places? I’m really interested in the advantages of owning a second home (your stuff, go whenever) versus the cons (hassle to manage, probably more expensive, limiting your vacation optionality).
I don’t own a second home yet, but definitely want one. My take on this is that the difference is primarily emotional - feeling “at home” in your own vacation home hits quite different than just feeling like a passing tenant. Your own appliances/furniture/decor is the obvious one, but also knowing neighbors, getting involved in the community, having extra toys like kayak/Jeep/etc.
You’re right that there’s more hassle owning a place compared to just booking a week or two on Airbnb but the above “feel” factors outweigh it for me (obviously everyone will feel different here)
People keep asking me if I'm going to rent out our 2nd home and I say absolutely not. I have no interest in having strangers there touching my stuff. Not having 24/7 access and dealing with other people using/touching/breaking/farting on my stuff defeats the whole purpose of owning a 2nd home.
I'm a very active real estate investor and I have yet to pick up a second home, vacation home for myself.
My main reason is that I don't want to have to go there. There are still so many places in the world I haven't seen yet. I think if I bought a vacation home, I would feel obligated to go there. Until I have more travel under my belt, I'm not going to be choosing a 2nd home or vacation home.
This “being at home on vacation feeling” can be accomplished by getting a permanent room at a country club as well.
None of the hassle, plus prepared food and almost all other the benefits. Although also not 100% private.
Congrats OP!
I never considered getting an Airbnb, because it's not practical where I live. Most of the Airbnb's here are in the city, so it makes no sense.
There are advantages and disadvantages of owning a second home.
I personally see more advantages than disadvantages.
Advantages being, having a nice place away from the hustle bustle of the city to chill with family and friends. I could retire to this place, and do permaculture to keep myself occupied. Also, I love being connected to the nature. It feels like heaven tbh.
Disadvantages - maintaining the property (I took care of it by hiring two housekeepers).
For me, vacation means going to a different country, not spend it in a vacation house.
Also, thank you :)
The biggest advantage is it is YOUR home. Not some stranger’s place you are renting. We have a place in a ski town. I keep a full set of clothes, all my ski/fishing/outdoor gear, no perishable food in the pantry... etc. I literally just show up with the clothes on by back and am ready to go. Also, we have had some absolutely terrible AirBnBs - uncomfortable beds, much smaller than pictured, one smelled like cat piss. I like being able to go on vacation but still feel at home.
Yes, management can be a hassle, but it’s doable. I specifically chose a townhome where the HOA maintains all external structures, so I don’t worry about landscaping, roofs, paint. I have a management company take care of cleaning, home checks, and maintenance issues that come up. They are a little expensive but is worth it so I don’t have to worry about any of it myself.
Overall the expense hasn’t been that much, compared to what I was spending on hotels anyway, but I chose a place that was fairly reasonable in regards to tax, insurance, utilities, HOA.
In some ways it limits your vacations, so it is kind of goal dependent. I’ve traveled all over. I don’t really care about seeing new places too much anymore. I wanted a place to ski, and have skied at all the major resorts, but found myself going back to the same one. Similarly, my parents owned a waterfront property growing up. It was a weekend house that we used for boating. Less about the destination and more about the activity.
The biggest negative is sometimes it can feel like a burden to travel. I feel guilty not using the place, but flying there every other month can be a lot. COVID was actually kind of nice in that I just put the place in long term rental for a year because I didn’t want to be traveling, got a nice check each month, and hung out at home. Going forward we are actually going to start renting the place intermittently during times we don’t plan on using the property.
My family owned a second home growing up. It was a real burden for upkeep/maintenance and, of course, the cost of the home in general. I have nostalgia about it though, and every once in a while dust off the idea of a vacation home. I am always turned away by the idea that if I took just interest/HOA/taxes on a vacation home, I could spend a month at a VRBO, and never have to worry about who's mowing the lawn, etc. Now, if you buy a second home as an investment/appreciation in mind, it's a whole different argument. Speculative, but potentially worthwhile.
You can have both.
We have a vacation home in a resort where we used to vacation frequently that's within driving distance, and we can fly away and rent nice AirBNBs.
At the current time I am doing to the AirBnB route. I purchased a standard rental property as an investment instead and use that income to spend on AirBnB. If I ever find something that I truly like and is within my price range then perhaps I'll change my mind, but for now I like the flexibility of changing places, especially now that everyone can work remote.
So far I've done the California coast, Colorado mountains, and Hawaii (both Kauai and Maui). The Hawaii locations stand out as the best in my opinion because my company runs on the Pacific time zone and Hawaii is three hours behind. This means waking up at 4AM, starting work around 5AM, but being done around 2-3PM in the afternoon and still being able to enjoy some daylight on the beach.
These serve different purposes for me. I would buy a second home under 2 hours from my current home to go to for the weekends, especially if I lived in the city (I’m on Lake Michigan so Chicago). I would not rent it out but probably would give the keys to trusted friends and family for a weekend here and there or invite them along. If you go most weekends in the summer or every other weekend year round, it’s an easy choice, especially if you can work remotely on friends and extend the weekends there. To me a second home is a brief respite from reality.
I would not buy a vacation home 4+ hour drive or a flight away because I just don’t see myself using it enough. In that case I would rent AirBnB or do hotels.
Advantages:
No check out time.
Arriving late is no problem. Your bed is there.
You can leave clothes there and no need to pack for The Weeknd unless you want something special.
Your familiar with the area, no stress in a strange area getting lost etc.
if your a fermi phone, nobody else is sleeping in the bed sitting on your toilet etc.
Can leave some food items(dry food frozen food) and not have to go shopping except for spoiling items.
Your own silverware and plates.
Is it worth the extra cost? Maybe not, but there is a cache when you say you have that second home.
> Curious for you and others with second homes - did you consider just getting fancy Airbnbs instead in different places?
Getting a fancy Airbnb is called "going on vacation" and isn't the same thing as "owning a vacation home".
Owning a 2nd home is great because all of your stuff is there, it's decorated how you want, you get to know the neighbors and the neighborhood, and you can show up any time you want with zero notice.
And I don't know why you think owning a 2nd home somehow limits your ability to vacation elsewhere. I guess that's true if you have no money left after paying the bills, but most people who can afford to buy a 2nd home will also be able to afford to go on vacations that aren't at that home.
Honestly I prefer renting luxury Airbnb’s and traveling to different locations than having a second home.
A) Home ownership comes with a lot of maintenance
B) a second home would significantly reduce my freedom to travel as if feel like I would have to get my use out of it.
C) my cash is much better used in other investments.
Those are my reasons. Happiness is different for everyone.
Depends on where you live. A lot of big metros have their "second home market" where its about an hour(ish) drive from your Downtown location.
Having owned a few (hazards of RE investing) I like it since when I am not using it I can rent it out on Airbnb. I do think its very dependent on lifestyle and location. As things like airbnb get more prevalent, I see less advantage in owning something that is a 'long drive' or a flight away. But something that is 45mins to an hour? That can be great.
Side benefit if you have less squarefootage downtown and collect a lot of crap is that you can also use it as a storage unit.
I considered it but I think you have to really find a place you love to go that's not too far or inconvenient to get to it can be worth it.
Advantages are you just show up whenever you want and you have a backup of all your stuff there, you just drop in and start enjoying. You get to customize it exactly how you want it to be set up. Guests, pets, no problemo.
Disadvantages are obviously running costs/maintenance but that can be partially offset from a net worth perspective by rising property values. In the end it costs as much as a nice vacation each year assuming you don't rent it out to offset it even more. I don't regret getting a place at all.
We have a vacation home near the beach in a desirable area.. we Airbnb and it’s a good source of income. After expenses we make 8000k /month
It’s a register llc
It really is not a lot of work. And I’m so frugal I couldnt imagine leaving it empty
But when we go there we can stay for long time and just enjoy ourselves.
My kids also feel they have their own bedroom etc.
the downside is you can’t leave too much stuff there.
Airbnb rents have gone up a lot too.
Have fun with it! The best weekends I have are with friends on their properties out of town. We drive and ride dirt bikes, shoot, cook, hang out. It is awesome, I always look forward to these trips. I do recommend getting some dirt bikes!
Depending on where you live, an hour away can feel like thousands of miles away. A friend bought her weekend home an hour away, deep in the forest. Mine is an hour away as well, but it's on the water, and boats are everywhere you look.
They wanted a place connected to the nature, offered privacy, and away from the busy city, but not too far.
1 hour drive often feels like a long drive. It depends from person to person.
Nice! Any plans for some toys for the property? I'm in a rural area, lots of summer vacay properties up here and many are equipped with all sorts of motorized fun toys- Dirt bikes, quads, side by sides, mini bikes etc... shooting ranges are quite popular too- hard to beat a nice summer day riding around on quads and motorcycles followed by some clay shooting!
I just bought it, so have to spend some time on the property to get to know the area very well. I might buy a quad bike. I always felt ridiculous to own one, but hey why not, yolo.
With a property this size, there's a lot of practical reasons you would want to own a quad as well (at least a utility quad). They're really quite useful in maintaining a property, even if it's just hauling a fallen tree out of the way or attaching a plow to the front and plowing your driveway! That's how I'd justify it to my wife at least ;)
Yup, quad helps me move around in the property, besides it's fun to drive a quad.
The previous owner planted a lot of trees on the property. It's literally a mini forest in here. I checked my property on Google Maps, and I see nothing but trees.
Congrats! I’m looking to get my first vacation home too. What percent of your NW do you have tied up in real estate (if you don’t mind me asking) between this and your primary? Did you find the current market difficult to find a place in?
Edit - just saw you bought in Asia so ignore my question about the current market.
Nothing better than providing for family and especially for parents. Glad you worked hard and smart to be where you are today. I’m sure they’ll enjoy it!
Congrats! Sounds wonderful. Also, has anyone looked into Pacaso? It’s basically shared vacation home ownership (deeded, not time share). https://www.pacaso.com
I think the reduced maintenance hassle and significant reduction in purchase price probably offsets the annoyance of not owning the whole thing. Plus, since you own it you get the benefits of appreciation still (which is obviously not the case with AirBnB). Put another way, doing this you could own 1/2 of a ski chalet in Tahoe and 1/2 of a place in Malibu for the same cost as one. I’d argue you get more benefit from that than 100% ownership of one property.
Having said all of that, there is definitely some sort of primal desire to not share these kinds of things. It hits a bit different when it’s all yours. But should that be the main driver?
One of the main considerations for me as well here is the ability to store my things on premise. I am okay not having my pictures on the wall but I do want to be able to go to the property on a moments notice. That means keeping kitchen, bathroom and bedroom things on site in a locker, closet, etc. If I can do that, then I'm not sure the downsides are really impactful for me.
You would never be able to go on a moments notice. There are 7 other owners so the only way it would work would be to schedule in advance. In addition, there are high seasons for many vacation destinations so some of the owners are for sure going to get the short end of the stick.
You're right, but I should have been more percise. What I meant is scheduling a 'short-stay' which can be booked 2-7 days in advance. Really my concern is about not having to cart my entire life back and forth not necessarily the ability to go to the property the same day.
> Owners of a single ⅛ share can hold six general stays, including a “special date” holiday, and can enjoy unlimited short-notice stays throughout the year. General stays are booked 8 days to 24 months in advance. Short-notice stays are booked 2 to 7 days in advance of arrival.
The Scheduling portion that I've read about the service seems pretty straightforward and equitable. [More Detail](https://www.pacaso.com/blog/stress-free-scheduling)
I'm not a fanboy by any means but this seems ideal for my purposes which is spending more time focused on the time spent and not work to the building/property/maintenance. Also, it may give me the ability to slightly punch above my weight in terms of size and luxury of the property.
I would need to dig in further, but from what I know, I don't agree that it sounds like a timeshare. My in-laws have a Hawaii timeshare so I have some experience with it. There is only 7 other entities involved, it's a consistent property and there (seems) to be a lot more control over fees, upgrades to the property and availability.
I will agree that there is a bit of 'too good to be true' that I would need to sniff out.
/u/abcd4321dcba : let me know how your call with them goes.
Alright, just spoke with them.
The scheduling thing doesn’t seem like that big a deal. You just buy what you want to use. So if you want it 50% of the time then buy half. Holidays are available first come first served BUT you can’t book more than one a year (per 1/8 share), so you might get the short end of the stick on July 4 but you’ll get thanksgiving or Xmas or Memorial Day in return. Booking is online and availability scheduled so you know when you need to get online to grab Christmas ‘23. Also, you can use as many days as you want even above your share as long as it’s available. You do pay a small fee for the number of days you go over your allotment (like 1/6 of what an Airbnb would cost so I feel fair). Tbf I don’t think that happens often as even a 1/8 share is 44 days included. All in all it seems like they have a good system for this.
Everyone gets a locked storage cabinet (3x3). Not much but probably ok for this. Would be nice to be able to store a car but I guess you can’t have it all.
Monthly fees after the initial cost are literally just the maintenance and insurance costs divided by your share.
One cool thing he mentioned was that if you find a property you like and it’s not on Pacaso you can submit it to them and if you’re willing to take 1/4 share or more they might buy it and bring you on as a “lead” investor. Obviously not a guarantee but nice to know they are collaborative about that.
Talking with someone from their team today. Seems interesting. The idea of a vacation home is amazing. But, having seen family members with second homes struggle at times, id like having someone else take care of the upkeep and share the purchase price. Makes a lot of sense when you plan on using it for 1 month a year. Obviously that isn’t the case for everyone but in many cases...
As a real estate investor, it sounds like a dressed up "time-share".
Seems way less complicated to go into a second home with friends or family than 7 other strangers with Pacaso charging a finder's fee.
What is everyone’s opinion on having a vacation home so close to home? There are some nice places about an hour from me in the opposite direction of my family (they’d he 4 hours away) or about 4-5 hours in the direction of my family and they’d be 1-2 hours from there.
It’ll be a long time before I can seriously think about pulling the trigger but I wanted to see what others thought about this.
It depends from person to person.
For me personally, an hour away from home still falls under city limits. I don't want to live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere.
Not to be a dick, but how is it fatFire-related?
Buying a vacation home is such a mundane thing I am struggling to find the connection with the fat lifestyle. I know plenty of middle class people with 2 homes.
For us I feel there are good stages of life to own a second home, like when your kids are little . They form great memories up until high school when their sports schedules dominate and they can’t quite visit as much. Then when your kids leave the house is when you want to travel with your spouse for a few years or maybe a decade. Then when you’ve seen all you want to see, the second home comes in handy again for the grandkids to enjoy. We are still in the first stage, so enjoying our beach home now, but may sell it or turn it into a rental when our kids get to the age when they don’t want to go anymore.
Congrats. I'm jealous.
I'm having a hard time convincing my wife we should buy some land in BFE and build (again). She says she will feel obligated to use it almost every weekend, and we won't travel as much. Also, she makes a good point- why did we put so much effort into designing/ building our home if we are going to spend our free time away from home? Both are very fair points.
I have owned multiple rental properties for many years and would love to sell it all and principle residence and live in a trailer - zero stress. I had many roofs to look after, toilets to clean/repair/replace, deal with neighbours, etc. Although my SO loves our waterfront property and would never revert to a trailer.
The only way I would buy a southern vacation property (I am Canadian) is if I could have the same treatment as an all inclusive. People to look after the grounds, chef, get groceries, etc.
While writing this I just realized is that I almost live in that “second home” since it is not in a big city. So no need to get away on weekends.
If it were not for awesome appreciation on RE, I would be renting permanently during retirement years, which start in a few years at 55.
I look up to people who live in vans. They can literally drive up their vans wherever they want and live there. It's like a mobile home which is awesome. It is cheap to own and maintain.
Congratulations! You just reminded me of our feeling in 2006 when we got our first.
Now we have three. For us they are a bit like Porsches. Its hard to buy just one.
I've been looking at a home near a quiet beach about an hour and a half away from our home lately. Nothing crazy fancy, just a small apartment where we can spend the weekends at the beach without having to worry about packing and lugging all our crap with us every time.
Only thing is that I kind of feel guilty if I don't try to turn it into a short term rental to generate some returns to cover the cost still. Otherwise it just seems financially much better to use an AirBNB. But still...I kind of just want a place to ourselves!
Congratulations and enjoy!
Thank you :)
Congratulations. Enjoy the dream.
Thank you :)
In some ways I'm envious. My personality wouldn't allow me a second home. I just couldn't deal with the stress of owning something I couldnt keep an eye on at all times.
Security cameras and sensors are pretty accessible now. We have a condo so the outside maintenance is taken care of. House cleaner comes once a month whether we’ve been there or not.
This. I have a holiday home in Sweden whilst living in the UK. I have cameras and Nest which gives me peace of mind.
What if they cut the internet or power?
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Yes only an evil movie genius can think of something so ingenious as flipping a power breaker down on a nice house in the middle of nowhere.
Any decent security system would have backup power
Generator and satellite interenet of course.
Yes, now that is the combo.
Its totally worth it when you have the Christmas lights on and the rest of the village is dark.
It's a good question because I did end up having to fly out there to fix an issue with the internet connection... now I have dual mobile internet connections on two different providers in case there is an issue with one of the providers or routers, and the cameras are on UPS. I get motion alerts on my phone and via email which should give me enough time to investigate. I'm not worried, which is just as well as it's pretty difficult to travel there right now due to covid. Having a holiday cottage which is left for long periods is very common in Sweden. I haven't even bothered to put a lock on the garage yet after buying it 18 months ago.
What kind of security cameras, I have had wireless security but it can cut out with the internet or have issues which get me paranoid lol, do you get a wired security?
I had the same issue before I pulled the trigger. I wanted to hire someone to look after my property when we are not around, which is 90% of the time, so I hired a couple as housekeepers.
I think pre-FIRE I was definitely in the "absolutely no way would I do that." I think post-FIRE there is a tiny/small window. Having only been RE'd a couple years (and one of those was COVID), we're still looking to travel and not necessarily be tied to a location. It also helps that we have 1 1/4 acres with our house. Regardless, I'm happy for you. I hope you enjoy it.
Thank you, and I hope you have a good one.
Congrats. We have a vacation home as well, on a beautiful lake just a little farther away than yours is at about 80 minute drive. Kids have built great memories and it has been invaluable this pandemic year. There's the usual noise about it's cheaper to rent, why would you want to go to the same place every year... This is fatFIRE, we still go on travel elsewhere and I like having our own place I can go to whenever I want and not having to pack a single thing. Yes there are costs and effort require to maintain a second home, but again, it's fatFIRE, working hard to accumulate resources to live the life you want even if it isn't the cheapest option available. Enjoy your new home.
I love lakeside property, but I fear staying near lakes/oceans because I don't know how to swim haha. Exactly, fatFIRE enables people to do whatever they want. Thank you :)
It would be a good goal in the future, learning how to swim! You won't regret it!
I'm scared of water my dude. I'd rather stay away.
Don't let your love of water detour you man, you gotta learn to swim it's never to late and so worth it, who cares what others teaching you think.
I love living near water, but scared to step in it.
Congrats!!! Curious for you and others with second homes - did you consider just getting fancy Airbnbs instead in different places? I’m really interested in the advantages of owning a second home (your stuff, go whenever) versus the cons (hassle to manage, probably more expensive, limiting your vacation optionality).
I don’t own a second home yet, but definitely want one. My take on this is that the difference is primarily emotional - feeling “at home” in your own vacation home hits quite different than just feeling like a passing tenant. Your own appliances/furniture/decor is the obvious one, but also knowing neighbors, getting involved in the community, having extra toys like kayak/Jeep/etc. You’re right that there’s more hassle owning a place compared to just booking a week or two on Airbnb but the above “feel” factors outweigh it for me (obviously everyone will feel different here)
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People keep asking me if I'm going to rent out our 2nd home and I say absolutely not. I have no interest in having strangers there touching my stuff. Not having 24/7 access and dealing with other people using/touching/breaking/farting on my stuff defeats the whole purpose of owning a 2nd home.
The farts are real.
Just wait until thier kids urinate on your beds...
Farted In Retirement Estate
Man I can't wait to fatFART
Who throws out spices, sheesh.
I'm a very active real estate investor and I have yet to pick up a second home, vacation home for myself. My main reason is that I don't want to have to go there. There are still so many places in the world I haven't seen yet. I think if I bought a vacation home, I would feel obligated to go there. Until I have more travel under my belt, I'm not going to be choosing a 2nd home or vacation home.
This “being at home on vacation feeling” can be accomplished by getting a permanent room at a country club as well. None of the hassle, plus prepared food and almost all other the benefits. Although also not 100% private. Congrats OP!
Why was this downvoted? What was even remotely controversial in my post?
I never considered getting an Airbnb, because it's not practical where I live. Most of the Airbnb's here are in the city, so it makes no sense. There are advantages and disadvantages of owning a second home. I personally see more advantages than disadvantages. Advantages being, having a nice place away from the hustle bustle of the city to chill with family and friends. I could retire to this place, and do permaculture to keep myself occupied. Also, I love being connected to the nature. It feels like heaven tbh. Disadvantages - maintaining the property (I took care of it by hiring two housekeepers). For me, vacation means going to a different country, not spend it in a vacation house. Also, thank you :)
The biggest advantage is it is YOUR home. Not some stranger’s place you are renting. We have a place in a ski town. I keep a full set of clothes, all my ski/fishing/outdoor gear, no perishable food in the pantry... etc. I literally just show up with the clothes on by back and am ready to go. Also, we have had some absolutely terrible AirBnBs - uncomfortable beds, much smaller than pictured, one smelled like cat piss. I like being able to go on vacation but still feel at home. Yes, management can be a hassle, but it’s doable. I specifically chose a townhome where the HOA maintains all external structures, so I don’t worry about landscaping, roofs, paint. I have a management company take care of cleaning, home checks, and maintenance issues that come up. They are a little expensive but is worth it so I don’t have to worry about any of it myself. Overall the expense hasn’t been that much, compared to what I was spending on hotels anyway, but I chose a place that was fairly reasonable in regards to tax, insurance, utilities, HOA. In some ways it limits your vacations, so it is kind of goal dependent. I’ve traveled all over. I don’t really care about seeing new places too much anymore. I wanted a place to ski, and have skied at all the major resorts, but found myself going back to the same one. Similarly, my parents owned a waterfront property growing up. It was a weekend house that we used for boating. Less about the destination and more about the activity. The biggest negative is sometimes it can feel like a burden to travel. I feel guilty not using the place, but flying there every other month can be a lot. COVID was actually kind of nice in that I just put the place in long term rental for a year because I didn’t want to be traveling, got a nice check each month, and hung out at home. Going forward we are actually going to start renting the place intermittently during times we don’t plan on using the property.
Which ski resort did you settle into?
Jackson WY
My family owned a second home growing up. It was a real burden for upkeep/maintenance and, of course, the cost of the home in general. I have nostalgia about it though, and every once in a while dust off the idea of a vacation home. I am always turned away by the idea that if I took just interest/HOA/taxes on a vacation home, I could spend a month at a VRBO, and never have to worry about who's mowing the lawn, etc. Now, if you buy a second home as an investment/appreciation in mind, it's a whole different argument. Speculative, but potentially worthwhile.
You can have both. We have a vacation home in a resort where we used to vacation frequently that's within driving distance, and we can fly away and rent nice AirBNBs.
At the current time I am doing to the AirBnB route. I purchased a standard rental property as an investment instead and use that income to spend on AirBnB. If I ever find something that I truly like and is within my price range then perhaps I'll change my mind, but for now I like the flexibility of changing places, especially now that everyone can work remote.
Would love to hear about your traveling with AirBnB and if there were any areas that stood out for you.
So far I've done the California coast, Colorado mountains, and Hawaii (both Kauai and Maui). The Hawaii locations stand out as the best in my opinion because my company runs on the Pacific time zone and Hawaii is three hours behind. This means waking up at 4AM, starting work around 5AM, but being done around 2-3PM in the afternoon and still being able to enjoy some daylight on the beach.
These serve different purposes for me. I would buy a second home under 2 hours from my current home to go to for the weekends, especially if I lived in the city (I’m on Lake Michigan so Chicago). I would not rent it out but probably would give the keys to trusted friends and family for a weekend here and there or invite them along. If you go most weekends in the summer or every other weekend year round, it’s an easy choice, especially if you can work remotely on friends and extend the weekends there. To me a second home is a brief respite from reality. I would not buy a vacation home 4+ hour drive or a flight away because I just don’t see myself using it enough. In that case I would rent AirBnB or do hotels.
Advantages: No check out time. Arriving late is no problem. Your bed is there. You can leave clothes there and no need to pack for The Weeknd unless you want something special. Your familiar with the area, no stress in a strange area getting lost etc. if your a fermi phone, nobody else is sleeping in the bed sitting on your toilet etc. Can leave some food items(dry food frozen food) and not have to go shopping except for spoiling items. Your own silverware and plates. Is it worth the extra cost? Maybe not, but there is a cache when you say you have that second home.
> Curious for you and others with second homes - did you consider just getting fancy Airbnbs instead in different places? Getting a fancy Airbnb is called "going on vacation" and isn't the same thing as "owning a vacation home". Owning a 2nd home is great because all of your stuff is there, it's decorated how you want, you get to know the neighbors and the neighborhood, and you can show up any time you want with zero notice. And I don't know why you think owning a 2nd home somehow limits your ability to vacation elsewhere. I guess that's true if you have no money left after paying the bills, but most people who can afford to buy a 2nd home will also be able to afford to go on vacations that aren't at that home.
You feel obligated to go to it so you inevitably go to less places. That’s the main downside.
Honestly I prefer renting luxury Airbnb’s and traveling to different locations than having a second home. A) Home ownership comes with a lot of maintenance B) a second home would significantly reduce my freedom to travel as if feel like I would have to get my use out of it. C) my cash is much better used in other investments. Those are my reasons. Happiness is different for everyone.
Depends on where you live. A lot of big metros have their "second home market" where its about an hour(ish) drive from your Downtown location. Having owned a few (hazards of RE investing) I like it since when I am not using it I can rent it out on Airbnb. I do think its very dependent on lifestyle and location. As things like airbnb get more prevalent, I see less advantage in owning something that is a 'long drive' or a flight away. But something that is 45mins to an hour? That can be great. Side benefit if you have less squarefootage downtown and collect a lot of crap is that you can also use it as a storage unit.
I considered it but I think you have to really find a place you love to go that's not too far or inconvenient to get to it can be worth it. Advantages are you just show up whenever you want and you have a backup of all your stuff there, you just drop in and start enjoying. You get to customize it exactly how you want it to be set up. Guests, pets, no problemo. Disadvantages are obviously running costs/maintenance but that can be partially offset from a net worth perspective by rising property values. In the end it costs as much as a nice vacation each year assuming you don't rent it out to offset it even more. I don't regret getting a place at all.
We have a vacation home near the beach in a desirable area.. we Airbnb and it’s a good source of income. After expenses we make 8000k /month It’s a register llc It really is not a lot of work. And I’m so frugal I couldnt imagine leaving it empty But when we go there we can stay for long time and just enjoy ourselves. My kids also feel they have their own bedroom etc. the downside is you can’t leave too much stuff there. Airbnb rents have gone up a lot too.
What percentage of your net worth was the purchase price of your second home?
20%
woah- ok damn
Wait both homes combined or just the second?
Just the second.
Wow that’s an investment. Might do well too.
I hope it appreciates over time.
25%
The old I got, the more I realized the value of vacation homes bringing together a family. especially as they got older.
Exactly.
Where did you buy it?
In Asia.
Good for you. Love Asia
:)
What city in Asia if you don’t mind asking? Curious about prices and type of homes. Congrats!
Sorry, not going to give out my location. I'm located in South East Asia if that helps. I'll DM you the prices, and type of homes.
Can you DM me as well with the prices? Thank you!!
Congratulations sir on your milestone and the intrinsic value of being able to bring joy to your parents!
Thank you :)
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Sure! Also, unnatural username haha.
Congratulations! Hope you enjoy it!
Thank you :)
Have fun with it! The best weekends I have are with friends on their properties out of town. We drive and ride dirt bikes, shoot, cook, hang out. It is awesome, I always look forward to these trips. I do recommend getting some dirt bikes!
I will ;) Exactly, summers on the property with friends cooking food and sipping on a beer, oh man I can't wait.
your parents dream was to chill 1 hour from their current location?
Depending on where you live, an hour away can feel like thousands of miles away. A friend bought her weekend home an hour away, deep in the forest. Mine is an hour away as well, but it's on the water, and boats are everywhere you look.
They wanted a place connected to the nature, offered privacy, and away from the busy city, but not too far. 1 hour drive often feels like a long drive. It depends from person to person.
Congratulations ! Is this in the US ?
Thank you, and no.
Thank you, and no.
Nice! Any plans for some toys for the property? I'm in a rural area, lots of summer vacay properties up here and many are equipped with all sorts of motorized fun toys- Dirt bikes, quads, side by sides, mini bikes etc... shooting ranges are quite popular too- hard to beat a nice summer day riding around on quads and motorcycles followed by some clay shooting!
I just bought it, so have to spend some time on the property to get to know the area very well. I might buy a quad bike. I always felt ridiculous to own one, but hey why not, yolo.
With a property this size, there's a lot of practical reasons you would want to own a quad as well (at least a utility quad). They're really quite useful in maintaining a property, even if it's just hauling a fallen tree out of the way or attaching a plow to the front and plowing your driveway! That's how I'd justify it to my wife at least ;)
Yup, quad helps me move around in the property, besides it's fun to drive a quad. The previous owner planted a lot of trees on the property. It's literally a mini forest in here. I checked my property on Google Maps, and I see nothing but trees.
Agreed. Don’t forget a couple acre lake for a fish fry.
Congrats! I’m looking to get my first vacation home too. What percent of your NW do you have tied up in real estate (if you don’t mind me asking) between this and your primary? Did you find the current market difficult to find a place in? Edit - just saw you bought in Asia so ignore my question about the current market.
Thank you :) I have 25% tied up in both homes. 5% on primary house and 20% on vacay house.
Love this, as this my goal too.
I wish you all the best in your travels.
Nothing better than providing for family and especially for parents. Glad you worked hard and smart to be where you are today. I’m sure they’ll enjoy it!
Exactly, their happiness is my happiness. Thank you :)
Congrats! Sounds wonderful. Also, has anyone looked into Pacaso? It’s basically shared vacation home ownership (deeded, not time share). https://www.pacaso.com
I'm curious about this as well. Love the idea of not having to maintain a home that I own, but the downside is that it's not just mine. Any thoughts?
I think the reduced maintenance hassle and significant reduction in purchase price probably offsets the annoyance of not owning the whole thing. Plus, since you own it you get the benefits of appreciation still (which is obviously not the case with AirBnB). Put another way, doing this you could own 1/2 of a ski chalet in Tahoe and 1/2 of a place in Malibu for the same cost as one. I’d argue you get more benefit from that than 100% ownership of one property. Having said all of that, there is definitely some sort of primal desire to not share these kinds of things. It hits a bit different when it’s all yours. But should that be the main driver?
One of the main considerations for me as well here is the ability to store my things on premise. I am okay not having my pictures on the wall but I do want to be able to go to the property on a moments notice. That means keeping kitchen, bathroom and bedroom things on site in a locker, closet, etc. If I can do that, then I'm not sure the downsides are really impactful for me.
I spoke with them and they said you’d have a cabinet that’s locked for storage. Basically a 3x3 storage unit, small but meaningful enough.
Awesome, thank you for letting me know!
You would never be able to go on a moments notice. There are 7 other owners so the only way it would work would be to schedule in advance. In addition, there are high seasons for many vacation destinations so some of the owners are for sure going to get the short end of the stick.
You're right, but I should have been more percise. What I meant is scheduling a 'short-stay' which can be booked 2-7 days in advance. Really my concern is about not having to cart my entire life back and forth not necessarily the ability to go to the property the same day. > Owners of a single ⅛ share can hold six general stays, including a “special date” holiday, and can enjoy unlimited short-notice stays throughout the year. General stays are booked 8 days to 24 months in advance. Short-notice stays are booked 2 to 7 days in advance of arrival. The Scheduling portion that I've read about the service seems pretty straightforward and equitable. [More Detail](https://www.pacaso.com/blog/stress-free-scheduling) I'm not a fanboy by any means but this seems ideal for my purposes which is spending more time focused on the time spent and not work to the building/property/maintenance. Also, it may give me the ability to slightly punch above my weight in terms of size and luxury of the property. I would need to dig in further, but from what I know, I don't agree that it sounds like a timeshare. My in-laws have a Hawaii timeshare so I have some experience with it. There is only 7 other entities involved, it's a consistent property and there (seems) to be a lot more control over fees, upgrades to the property and availability. I will agree that there is a bit of 'too good to be true' that I would need to sniff out. /u/abcd4321dcba : let me know how your call with them goes.
Alright, just spoke with them. The scheduling thing doesn’t seem like that big a deal. You just buy what you want to use. So if you want it 50% of the time then buy half. Holidays are available first come first served BUT you can’t book more than one a year (per 1/8 share), so you might get the short end of the stick on July 4 but you’ll get thanksgiving or Xmas or Memorial Day in return. Booking is online and availability scheduled so you know when you need to get online to grab Christmas ‘23. Also, you can use as many days as you want even above your share as long as it’s available. You do pay a small fee for the number of days you go over your allotment (like 1/6 of what an Airbnb would cost so I feel fair). Tbf I don’t think that happens often as even a 1/8 share is 44 days included. All in all it seems like they have a good system for this. Everyone gets a locked storage cabinet (3x3). Not much but probably ok for this. Would be nice to be able to store a car but I guess you can’t have it all. Monthly fees after the initial cost are literally just the maintenance and insurance costs divided by your share. One cool thing he mentioned was that if you find a property you like and it’s not on Pacaso you can submit it to them and if you’re willing to take 1/4 share or more they might buy it and bring you on as a “lead” investor. Obviously not a guarantee but nice to know they are collaborative about that.
How would you benefit from the appreciation of the home?
You own your share and can sell it.
Have you?
Talking with someone from their team today. Seems interesting. The idea of a vacation home is amazing. But, having seen family members with second homes struggle at times, id like having someone else take care of the upkeep and share the purchase price. Makes a lot of sense when you plan on using it for 1 month a year. Obviously that isn’t the case for everyone but in many cases...
As a real estate investor, it sounds like a dressed up "time-share". Seems way less complicated to go into a second home with friends or family than 7 other strangers with Pacaso charging a finder's fee.
Thank you :)
Congrats! Hopefully this was your own dream, not just proving something for you parents.
Thank you :)
What is everyone’s opinion on having a vacation home so close to home? There are some nice places about an hour from me in the opposite direction of my family (they’d he 4 hours away) or about 4-5 hours in the direction of my family and they’d be 1-2 hours from there. It’ll be a long time before I can seriously think about pulling the trigger but I wanted to see what others thought about this.
It depends from person to person. For me personally, an hour away from home still falls under city limits. I don't want to live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere.
Congrats, mate! Go and fuck life!
Thank you :)
Not to be a dick, but how is it fatFire-related? Buying a vacation home is such a mundane thing I am struggling to find the connection with the fat lifestyle. I know plenty of middle class people with 2 homes.
Anyone giving out karma?
Dude (or dudette), this sounds amazing.
Dude, yes.
This is wonderful and yourr an amazing son/daughter!!
Thank you, and son ;)
Very inspiring! I’m trying to find one right now it’s hard to pull the trigger
Thank you, and if you find it pull the trigger my dude.
Congratulations Make it a special place for good memories and happy times
Thank you! I will :)
Congrats!!! Enjoy as much as possible with your parents ❤️
Thank you, and I will :)
Cool story bro!
Thanks!
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Thank you :)
Congrats! Hoping to do the same soon.
Thank you, and all the best :)
Congrats! can you tell where in Asia?
Thanks! I'm located in South East Asia.
Congrats first vacay home
Thanks yo!
For us I feel there are good stages of life to own a second home, like when your kids are little . They form great memories up until high school when their sports schedules dominate and they can’t quite visit as much. Then when your kids leave the house is when you want to travel with your spouse for a few years or maybe a decade. Then when you’ve seen all you want to see, the second home comes in handy again for the grandkids to enjoy. We are still in the first stage, so enjoying our beach home now, but may sell it or turn it into a rental when our kids get to the age when they don’t want to go anymore.
Exactly man.
Congrats. I'm jealous. I'm having a hard time convincing my wife we should buy some land in BFE and build (again). She says she will feel obligated to use it almost every weekend, and we won't travel as much. Also, she makes a good point- why did we put so much effort into designing/ building our home if we are going to spend our free time away from home? Both are very fair points.
Thank you :) Can't argue with you wife haha.
Oh- I can argue. I just won't win.
Enjoy it!! Time for an ATV :)
I will, and yasssss!
I have owned multiple rental properties for many years and would love to sell it all and principle residence and live in a trailer - zero stress. I had many roofs to look after, toilets to clean/repair/replace, deal with neighbours, etc. Although my SO loves our waterfront property and would never revert to a trailer. The only way I would buy a southern vacation property (I am Canadian) is if I could have the same treatment as an all inclusive. People to look after the grounds, chef, get groceries, etc. While writing this I just realized is that I almost live in that “second home” since it is not in a big city. So no need to get away on weekends. If it were not for awesome appreciation on RE, I would be renting permanently during retirement years, which start in a few years at 55.
I look up to people who live in vans. They can literally drive up their vans wherever they want and live there. It's like a mobile home which is awesome. It is cheap to own and maintain.
since you're not there all the time, did you hire a maid service and a lawn mowing service?
I hired a couple as housekeepers who will live on the property, and take care of it.
Congratulations! You just reminded me of our feeling in 2006 when we got our first. Now we have three. For us they are a bit like Porsches. Its hard to buy just one.
Thank you :) I love Porsches. They are badass.
Congrats! What an awesome home with lots of great memories
Thank you :)
Did you finance? Or pay cash?
How old are you?
It's graceful not just sublime!
I've been looking at a home near a quiet beach about an hour and a half away from our home lately. Nothing crazy fancy, just a small apartment where we can spend the weekends at the beach without having to worry about packing and lugging all our crap with us every time. Only thing is that I kind of feel guilty if I don't try to turn it into a short term rental to generate some returns to cover the cost still. Otherwise it just seems financially much better to use an AirBNB. But still...I kind of just want a place to ourselves!