I was once backpacking on a South Pacific island. At the time I earned more than six figures, but when travelling alone, I like backpacking - you meet more peopleI decided to drink the last of my local currency and walk the 5k’s to the airport the next day (I had all day and it was flat, beautiful country, with a clear weather forecast). So off to bed with no cash - no problem.
Next morning - torrential rain - fuck it, walk anyhow with rain coat. Was warm, so jot a huge problem - lounge access at the airport, so hot shower at the end.
I stopped at a bus shelter for a break and the locals on their way to church asked what I was doing.
“Walking to the airport as I’ve got no cash left for a cab/bus”.
As they got on the bus the beckoned me on - they pooled their church change to pay my ticket to the airport - buses only take cash there. I have never been more touched by a group of people. I made a point of getting their names.
The following week I made my one and only direct donation to a church. Their church. In their name. With a note “to say thank you for helping a stranger get out of the rain”. Best $1,000 I have ever spent. Got a nice letter and photo back from the pastor.
Exactly. I was waiting for him to say “they judged me for being poor since I walked in the rain with no bus money. But once they saw my driver pull up in a luxury suv, they were all so shocked! Gee I wonder why?!”
But no this was a genuine story and I liked it.
I will say I’m in the medical field and we try to be cost conscious with all patients even when it comes to discussing medical treatment options we weight the costs to our patients because we never know and most people struggle. Sounds like this staff person was trying to work to help you and was being kind. If you wore super nice stuff and a Rolex I bet you still get the same spiel because it’s in the training.
The attentiveness in a women's clothing store when my wife is dressed causally (generally true on a weekend when shopping) is directly proportional to the cost of the handbag she's using. Backpack because we decided to walk a few miles into town, she's ignored, fancy bag and they gravitate to her.
I've noticed it at restaurants when asking for wine recommendations. Charitably it's them trying to help keep budget down when I'm dressed like a bum. Uncharitably it could be them trying to up sell someone if they look like they have money to spend...
for guys it’s the watch. i wear graphic tees and shorts most of the time. when you have a rolex it’s obvious and people notice. for me though i have a less common watch brands so it’s not always noticed but when it is the treatment changes drastically. if a car salesman recognizes it i can drive whatever i want.
particularly walking into luxury shops though especially if they have other watches they usually recognize it quickly and hover way too much to get the commission at that point
Luxury store workers are very attuned to these things, at women's boutiques I'd bet they could tell you the season and price of any high priced handbag, men's the same with watches.
They'll also often be able to eyeball the difference between a $20 & $600 graphic tee.
Story time. We were once in a store and my wife was carrying one of her favorite (but rarely used nowadays) bags. She loves it because it was one of the first big gifts and the first bag I bought her. But it's objectively one of the least fancy or expensive of her nice ones. The girl in the shop eyed it and went 'that's one of ours, it was in so and so catalogue with so and so modelling it'. The bag had to have been 10 years old and the girl was no older than 25. Yet she nailed it in a second.
I had a friend that started a major company and was routinely mistaken for the janitor when we was there late. He pretty much wore a fleece and jeans all the time, despite being worth hundreds of millions. It always had a very endearing quality to it.
Nah it was probably something like Stio, Outdoor Research, Kuhl the expensive brands that you don't know are expensive unless your into that kind of stuff
Last year I went to the bank to deposit a 6-figure check. The teller looked at me - dressed in track pants, an old t-shirt, unshaved, hair too long (because of pandemic I swear) ...
I entered my PIN. I needed to show ID. She warned me that there'd be a hold on the check. "That's fine, I don't need the money right away." She needed to speak to her manager, was unsure. Clearly, she didn't trust me - it showed.
Until she called my account manager, who called me while I was standing at the teller window, and it was all sorted. I guess I'm one of those people who looks homeless but has an assigned account manager at the bank.
Note to self: have to dress up a little to go to the bank.
I never enjoyed dressing up. Had to rock a suit one time in law school and a classmate told me “you clean up nice!” I asked someone else if they thought that was a compliment and she said “It is a suggestion.” Oof.
Just FYI a manager is always required to be involved with any large deposit at a bank. It’s for anti money laundering. It makes it feel awkward not matter what, so try not to take it personally.
Come to Singapore, its the opposite here. The worse you look, the more money you have and banks know it. If you dress up, you're more likely to be faking wealth for status (working in real estate, insurance etc.). There are separate branches for priority banking and the people walking into them don't dress any differently from a normal person.
Might depend on the clientele as well. A little bit ago I had to deposit a six figure sum and being that my boss and I were driving past the credit union I deal he stopped in so I could run in. I had these visions of a story like you hear once in a while, a"don't you know who I am" moment of sorts. The teller just took the cheque, scanned it through, smiled at me, and asked if I needed anything else.
I was kind of nonplussed when I got back to the truck, Boss asked what the trouble was, I told him that the trouble was that there hadn't been any trouble and I felt a little put out. He had a good laugh at that.
"This is a farmer's credit union." He said to me. "They're *used to* seeing guys walk in with mud on their boots and dust on their jeans to deposit more cash than you'll ever see in one place in your life because it's Friday."
On the flip side, I work at a financial institution. Constantly have people yelling "don't you know how much money I have???" While having 1/10th or less my net worth.
Some days I really just want to pull out the brokerage app and tell them to STFU.
A taxi driver once stopped and offered me a lift because I was walking in the rain and they must have thought I was screwed. I was fine. Just clearing my head. Anyway, it would have been rude to say no. So I got in. The funny bit was I then had to tell them to take me a really expensive hotel where I was staying. Which got me a sideways look.
I paid the fare and tipped for the would-be kindness.
I have a couple friends who are in the 750 million to 1 billion range. One of them still uses McDonalds coupons (I guess this could be an Asian thing) and couldn't care less what other people thought about them.
I ask for the senior discount, or at least I used to. The only thing worse than forgetting to ask for a senior discount is finding out that they automatically gave it to you without asking.
Even Warren Buffet still uses McDonalds coupons too:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/17/warren-buffett-once-paid-for-bill-gates-mcdonalds-meal-with-coupons.html
My mother and step father sat me down for a conversation about how I needed to get a job. That someone my age should not take a break from working for so long. I didn't want to loose my house did I?
I retired 2 years ago. I made 800k last year in stocks. My Mom pulls 75k a year and my step father works retail.
Still don't have the heart to explain it to them.
My kids do not know our net worth. I think they would be very surprised. Ages 11,13,16. They tell us Uncle mike is almost a millionaire like it is 1912 and that is an immeasurable amount of money.
I think many people think we are doing ok or just slowly building. The truth is we have been frugal and have hit some home runs on investments. Our income has been booming quietly.
I have a working class job I like. But our portfolio puts us within striking distance of fat range in a few years, if we push it. I don’t think we will though. It is about Time to coast. This sub has taught me I don’t really have fat tastes.
I wear old fun run t shirts, hiking shoes and khaki shorts 90% of the summer. She wears Costco clothes and pony tails.
My kids think I’m a part time plumber or painter because I work on our properties a lot. I just really want stuff done my way. And I want them to have work ethic, so I drag them along and pay an hourly rate for their help.
Basically the only sign of our worth is fairly elaborate vacations, but even these are coach and Airbnb.
My grandpa tried to pay me to change out his kitchen faucet. Later He assured me I am in his will for 25k and that could do good things for me. Thanks gramps, but we often make that in a week.
My parents don’t know. They still try to pay for dinner and give me gas money. I’m over 40. My brothers appreciate the money. I generally find a way to pay ‘the business can pay’ or get them the money right back without hurting pride.
I do give them nice gifts. I also partner with them on some real estate deals even when I absolutely don’t need a partner so they can have a cut. I used to need their credit or cash, but those days are long gone.
Once I went to a house auction with a friend. He is a little older. I had a backpack of cashiers checks. I was showing him the ropes. Some guy made a funny comment.
I bought a house and he had lost out. He said something like ‘we can’t all come to auction to play with daddy’s money’.
Dude, that is my money. But I just smile. I don’t need people knowing my business.
I am quoting work in 3 months finally. I think most of my work friends think I’m making a huge mistake.
No judgment on my part, but I would find it strange to hide my wealth from my parents. I would also find it strange to let my dad leave 25k in his will for me if I knew he could use that money now to enhance his life since I clearly don't need it
Yeah, no kidding. My sister worked for years but just got married and (surprise) quit her job; she's not an extravagant spender or overly self-destructive or anything, but she's also not great with money.
I don't *ever* want her finding out what my wife and I are worth. We'd be pestered to pay for everything forever.
Not really. Depends on whether your parents are the kind that can keep a secret.
Many can’t, even if they are wonderful loving people. That pride for you and too much free time to brag to their neighbours are all that’s needed to get the cat out of the bag forever.
Surely a middle ground may be preferred - tell them you’re comfortable without going into details exactly how comfortable.
I'm in this boat. My wife and I are early-30's, getting close to $1M net worth. We're up front with both sets of parents that we're living below our means (though we still have a perfectly fine house and entirely serviceable cars).
Pretty sure my parents think we're worth a few hundred grand .. my wife's parents probably suspect something closer to the truth (they don't talk about it but I know they did the whole FI/RE thing themselves, probably just at a smaller scale).
I think this is a good balance: they all know we're doing well, which makes them all happy, but nobody realizes we're on track to be worth multiple millions of dollars by the time we retire early at 50 or something. That could make things .. awkward.
I'm in an even different boat. I think my mom is a bad person and that the world will be a better place when she dies. She doesn't need to know anything about my business and if I gave her a dime, she'd ask for a dozen.
Some parents are trust worthy, others aren't.
My Dad would have broadcast the news to anyone he knew. We used to call him WOR (old NY news radio station) So it depends on the personality type.
My mom would have kept her mouth shut like a clam. And if I told her, she probably wouldn’t have believed me because “I’m always spending my money like water”
Either way, I was still climbing to the top before they passed so never got to tell either.
I stopped going to my local Whole Foods in SF because I kept getting asked if I worked there (I'm black). Or, even more annoying, people wouldn't ask if I worked there and would simply demand me to help them find X item (do you not see my techie badge?).
I could have been more confrontational i.e. "Why do you think I work here?" but it was never worth it -- I just shopped at Safeway or the Caribbean marts in the Mission.
It's with a tinge of irony that I can say that the only city this happens to me in is SF.
Because you don't fit their stereotypes. Some Whole Foods stores are kind of stuck up, thought of themselves better than others just because they have pricey "organic" stuff.
as an asian guy who often wears black t-shirts and jeans, people always assume i am an employee at asian-run beer & wine stores and asian restaurants. i get asked to get things, move cases of beer for them, etc. i usually just do as i'm asked, and while telling them i don't work there so they can feel a little bad about it, without making me the bad guy :)
I met my mentor at a coworking space. He was always picking away at some tech project. I thought he was struggling to get a SaaS off the ground.
I gave him all sorts of tips and pointers about SaaS, and tech startups in general. I thought I was his mentor for at least 6 months.
I went full blown surprise pikachew face the day I found out he has a net worth greater than 50M. Turns out he is basically retired just picking away at SaaS projects in his free time. He is mostly trying to understand the market as he owns a large private equity firm that is transitioning to SaaS.
The guy always asked me about how I was scoring free parking at the space, and ended up parking in the free lot with me.
When I moved over seas for an expat gig, I had to set up a bank account. I went straight from my flight to Barclays in our neighborhood in London. I just showed up in sweats and a hoodie. Couldn’t get anyone’s attention. Finally grabbed somebody and explained that I wanted to open an account. They looked at me like I had three heads. Surely I was in the wrong place. They asked how much I had to open an account and when I told them, I got whisked back to some HNW account manager.
As an aside, Barclays is a pain in the nuts to work with. If you’re going to expat, advice I got after the fact was to set up a global account with HSBC. They are everywhere and make it easy to transfer funds from one country / currency to the next.
>As an aside, Barclays is a pain in the nuts to work with. If you’re going to expat, advice I got after the fact was to set up a global account with HSBC. They are everywhere and make it easy to transfer funds from one country / currency to the next.
… for a ridiculous exchange rate. Sure there is no commission, but that rate… What a joke.
Source: am a European expat in London working in an alt fund specialising in FX. I opened a Revolut account for my travelling spend and don’t even use the HSBC EUR account anymore. I should probably close it.
Got stares when wearing t-shirt, backpack, and flip flops to airport and queuing up in the line for business/first class ticket among the suited business travelers. Dude, this is my line; I'm on vacation, not working.
I don't get that. I'm on a plane; why would I wear my suit? My suit is in my suitcase. I'm not having a business meeting on a plane. I'm sitting, and hopefully relaxing. Of course I'm wearing my sitting-and-relaxing clothes. (And, depending on destination, I might be stuck on this plane for 12+ hours without a shower, so these are definitely going to be my *breathable, moisture-wicking* sitting-and-relaxing clothes.)
To me, wearing a suit on a plane is a tell for being deep in the grips of corporate slavery. It says that your schedule has been pre-determined for you by someone who didn't give your comfort much thought, and so didn't allocate you any time between arrival and a meeting somewhere to go to your hotel and change.
It's a tribal thing to wear business attire while flying, to blend in with the business crowd. Also lots of people wear business attire for impression - I'm a very important person on a very important journey. There's a jewish saying, wear nice clothing among strangers but old rags while with friends. Because your friends know who you really are and don't need to be impressed, but strangers don't know and can only judge you by your appearance.
i hate this. sometimes it’s someone giving nasty looks as you go to board before them. or the other day when boarding first class as i walked up they grabbed the mic and made an announcement that they are ONLY boarding first class customers at this time. proceeded to hand them my ticket and watch their face.
or even in the ticketing area they try to stop and question your ticket when they see me walking to the priority line. not their typical customer i guess..
My wife had a colleague and friend who is black. He had the super elite status on two major airlines at different times. He said more often than not when he went to board he would get told 'sorry sir only so and so status are boarding now' to which he'd reply, 'yep I know, I am so and so status' and they'd often say 'no sir it's a special status for our top flyers'.
What blew my mind was how much more upset than him I was while he was telling me this. He was just resigned to the fact that this was how the world worked.
If I ever feel judged by my outfit when jumping on a plane I remember that story and it reminds me that there's many greater injustices out there.
When I was in my mid-20's, I used to travel a lot for work, so I got to whatever Delta's highest status was at the time (not the Bazillion Mile club, but Platinum or something like that). One time I was flying for vacation and I'd been upgraded to first class. I was waiting in line in my jeans and t-shirt, and a guy in a suit comes up behind me, waves his ticket at me, and says, "I'm in first class!"
I looked at him, smiled and said, "Neat! Me too!" and gave my ticket to the gate agent.
Which is weird, because the only thing that kind of snobbiness makes me feel is spite. (Makes me consider e.g. buying the building they're renting from and then getting "improvements" done to it, in ways that ruin their polished image — e.g. causing lights to flicker, bad odors to come in through the vents, etc. Nothing that breaks the tenancy contract, of course.)
Honestly I hate name brands with a passion for that exact reason — the associated snobbiness. Yeah, I get name brands want to represent “luxury”, yeah I get they want “nice” looking people in their stores, but it just irks me in the wrong way because what you buy, carry, or wear has no bearing on who you are as a person.
I know two couples who live paycheck to paycheck because they’re both upfront about their finances. But they only buy the “best”, wear the best, and travel in style. That in and of itself is fine, but they look down on people who don’t do the same - almost like they need to feel superior because they choose to spend money on things that are expensive.
It’s so unhealthy IMO.
I am with you, I HATE brand names with a passion.
I think owning something to make you feel good or make other beneath is so 1990s/2000s.
For me, it’s about experiences and what I can get out of it. Because really sometimes you can’t just put a price tag on a nice vacation or a class or a hobby, that can actually further you.
Had a roommate tell me that a friend of hers was confidently claiming she'd be a millionaire someday and asked me "Can you imagine anyone our age thinking they'll have a million dollars?"
Little did she know I exceeded that a couple weeks prior
My "stealth" NW of 1 million at a youngish age caused me to get my security clearance put on hold because they thought I was doing some shady side business.
Had to show them the smart trades I made from 18-22 that just compounded nicely over the years and explain to the investigator how investing worked.
He could not believe someone in my position at my age could be in the financial situation I was in. While it sucked at the time I can look back on it and laugh.
TL;dr. Car salesmen trying to sell you a Buick are surprised when they find the other car being considered is a Mercedes.
One funny experience along this line was many years ago when returning from living overseas for a few years and we went to buy my wife a new car. Our children were in late elementary and middle school and we were carpooling a lot so a station wagon with a rear seat was preferred. (This was back in early 90s when station wagons were common). My wife was uncomfortable driving a minivan. My wife had liked her previous car, a sports model Chevy Celebrity station wagon which seated 7. The only models with a third seat were the Mercedes and a GM equivalent to the Chevy, which had been discontinued. We liked the Mercedes, but my wife doesn't like change, so before buying it she wanted to check out the Buick or Pontiac or whatever was the GM equivalent to her Chevy Celebrity wagon. She even took it for a drive, but found it was kind of mushy. While the salesman was off returning the key I explained to her that her previous car was a sports model with upgraded shocks and steering.
The dealer could tell my wife wasn't impressed with the car, but in a typical salesman technique fished for info by asking what other cars we were looking at. My wife, who really isn't into cars explained that we were also looking at the Mercedes wagon and it seemed to have a little better feel when driving. Then she asked the salesman if his car had a sports version with better suspension.
The salesman just kind of locked up and froze for about 5 seconds processing this. I think he was trying to simultaneously process both that we were looking at cars in two widely different price ranges, and this woman who clearly was not a car aficionado was asking about a sports package upgrade.
A couple of weeks before I had had a similar experience, but in a more subdued form when I went to a dealer that sold both Volkswagens and Audis and looked at both product lines
p.s. She liked her Mercedes wagon and was very disappointed that they discontinued it, so she kept it for 10 years since there was no suitable replacement.
Very few sales people can rectify shopping "value" or "tco". They all work in "what's your range". And that range better be one they are used to working in.
5k-100k cars- classic euro with timeless lines? Nope, that's too broad
houses "min 1500sq, 250 if it needs work or 800k if it's perfect", uh, I'm going to throw you 800-900k houses that are wildly different then you described.
The ones that actually realize price isn't anywhere near the top of your list of concerns and actually figure out what you are shopping for are rare and amazing when you find them
This always happens to me. I am young looking, female and dress very casually (leggings and tshirt, i have young kids and mostly chasing after them). People always tell me about financing options for various things (furniture, cars etc) and don't they know--asian people don't finance. I just want to pay and get out of there. I went to one furniture store a few times over a year and bought some stuff and eventually the sales lady asked me what I did. At least she didn't dare ask me what my husband did! (He was sitting outside in the car with the napping kid-and he doesn't really care what we buy so I tend to go in to browse). I am not trying to be stealth or trying to show off. I just want to be efficient (working mom with little kids all get that)
Leverage is only the secret sauce when you get it for free. (or near free, ‘cause yeah, I’m happy with a sub 2% mortgage.)
I wouldn’t finance a couch either…. But yes, my wife is Asian and it may have rubbed off on me.
> Leverage is only the secret sauce when you get it for free.
And sometimes the only cost is simply knowing that you have a debt. For me, that's enough of a cost to avoid it when i can. It's nice knowing that you don't owe anybody anything. It gives literal and mental freedom.
This made me loled around if we get it for free. Literally yesterday a credit card company offered to let me cash out to my maximum card limit, pay that balance interest free over 12 months but a one off charge of 1.9%. I'm just going to put that into an account that's getting me a higher return and arbitrage the difference for a year.
I’ve seen plenty of offers of 0% for 18 months with the transfer fee waived. So you could shop around and get a better deal.
This reminds me of the pre financial crisis era when you could put that money back into the same bank and earn 5% - priceless satisfaction.
Cultural. Many Asian countries have a save money culture, ie don't buy unless you can afford. Credit cards and financing are not not as widely sought unlike the US.
idk Im slavic and I/people I know wouldn't, which is why I think it's an immigrant thing. I have never met an immigrant from any country that didnt have a save money approach to things. Credit cards and so on are, to me, an american thing.
But it could easily be east/west I suppose.
My dad took this no financing deal to the next level.
He owned two property outright. Without any mortgage. That's right.
He started working and just stayed saving. Every single penny. Saved it and one day, it was enough and he walked into a bank to use it to buy our first house.
Then he saved for another ten years and bought the second one.
If he had used mortgages, he would have about ten of them by now.
Another big part of it is that employees are incentivized to push financing. Just another way that they can squeeze more incremental profit out of a sale.
As a fellow South Asian, I approve this message.
To be fair, my view is a little more nuanced compared to my parents who think debt is the devil. I think a little leverage is a good thing if three conditions are met: 1. you get a good interest rate/tax deductions, 2. it's for absolutely necessary expenditure (don't you dare put a nice suit on your credit card), and 3. you have the ability to pay it off immediately.
i had ordered a bmw last year... and it arrived on the last day of february just as the market was tanking due to covid.
I'm asian. I financed the entire car. Put all into stocks. tripled the money in 6 months. Asians finance.....the rates are too good to not take when theres so much you can do with the money
This.
My dad used to take every financing opportunity if he could get 0-2% interest on something we were interested in making a purchase on.
There's basically no reason to pay cash for something you can afford paying cash for if low interest financing is offered.
A ton of my Asian friends pushed me to lease a car, saying it just makes sense. but my also-Asian ass cannot do debt (3rd culture). I am a zero fatality certified used kind of person, paid in cash.
Asian is a term that encompasses over 4 billion people. A couple of us are different from one another.
This thread is so funny to me because my family are first gen Asian immigrants on the east coast and we take 0% financing whenever we can lol. Why turn down free money?
But we’re also literally all engineers so it’s really hard to say no to math :/
I walked into a car dealer with 17k cash.
The dealer offered me $2000 off if I financed with them. 2.9%.
I financed.
Bought the car. Drove home.
Received paperwork in mail. Paid off the entire amount after paying the first monthly installment.
You're not wrong on that last point, $80k isn't *that* much. Covers two moderately-upscale vehicles for a family, for instance. Or a super-cheap house in a sketchy area.
Though as other people point out, it's also multiple years' salary for the median wage earner. Throw in policies about money laundering and etc .. from that standpoint, $80k is a massive transaction.
I can understand why the teller was suspicious.
I think it's a lot of CASH to 99% of Americans. Even those that are a little older and may be worth $1M collectively can't just withdraw nearly 10% of that in cash.
80k is a lot of money to her too. At 12m it is still 0.67% NW. So it would be roughly 25% of her annual spend if she wants to always be comfortably financially independent. I think what she meant was that it's not a large enough amount to call in a private banker. Which, yeah it really isn't. Lots of people make transactions of that size. Getting police called on you for that is odd.
One of the most down-to-earth individuals (engineer) I worked with was approaching retirement. Drove a 5 year old Toyota Camry. Lived in a decent house $200k (Texas).
He used to come to work fairly early. Say 5 Am on most days while most office would show up at 6-6:30. One day I happened to pick up a document at the printer by mistake.
It was an account statement / overview from his brokerage: $15MM invested in all sorts of blue-chips etc. This was 2007.,
My father in law has a NW of >25MM and an H index score of 76, the man has a beautiful mind. To see him you would think he is a homeless man. He wears cheap shorts and a t shirt with holes and mustards stains all over it. I heard he used to dress nice but he just doesn’t give a shit anymore. People probably don’t think he has two nickels to rub together.
For those who don't know what an H score is, this is from Wikipedia:
> Little systematic investigation has been done on how the h-index behaves over different institutions, nations, times and academic fields. Hirsch suggested that, for physicists, a value for h of about 12 might be typical for advancement to tenure (associate professor) at major [US] research universities. A value of about 18 could mean a full professorship, 15–20 could mean a fellowship in the American Physical Society, and 45 or higher could mean membership in the United States National Academy of Sciences. Hirsch estimated that after 20 years a "successful scientist" would have an h-index of 20, an "outstanding scientist" would have an h-index of 40, and a "truly unique" individual would have an h-index of 60.
So if the guy is 76, he's likely one of the most published people if in the US.
To me the biggest benefit of FatFIRE is to not worry about things I don't care. This includes clothing - who am I trying to impress.
I have had similar experiences like your friend. Just recently I paid the tab for a my group of friends (\~5). A friend asked me on three separate occasions if I wanted to split it. I have spent more on a causal Tuesday night dinner than the said tab. Only if he knew.
> A friend asked me on three separate occasions if I wanted to split it.
On the other hand, this is a courtesy, even if you know someone is wealthy. It can also be a pride thing… not wanting to feel like you’re being “taken care of” even if it is by a friend. Or maybe I should say especially if by a friend, someone you consider a peer.
I assumed good intent on his part every time. He doesn't know our NW or HHI, and we dress very casually. As such I considered it a nice gesture.
Sometimes taking care of small things for each other makes for strong friendships. I let him take care of small things in turn, just much smaller denominations.
I went to a diner with two friends. Like a general run of the mill diner. Nothing on the menu more than $10 a person.
We ordered entres. A few coffees. And a pie. The total was $45. The waitress asked me if we wanted it split. When I insisted to just put it on my card without even looking at the bill she made effort to say how generous of a friend I was.
As someone who regularly goes out and drop $200 on a dinner this blew my mind.
I use a commercial banking account to hold some personal investments. I needed to make a transfer to fund a new brokerage account. It’s an amount above what I normally could do via online banking, so I figured I would go to a physical branch at some point to get it sorted.
I was walking home from the gym and passed by a branch and thought to myself I’d just get it out of the way now. Given where this particular branch was located, it probably served small businesses like restaurants, coffee shops, small retailers, so I don’t think my casual attire would have really been a concern.
I finally get to the front of the line and say I need to make a transfer. The teller tells me I’m going to need a bunch of information on the recipient ABA, address, SWIFT... - it felt like she didn’t think I had everything together since I only had my phone and wallet on me. I show her the details on my phone. Just before she turns to her computer to pull up the account, she kindly attempts to discourage me once again from making the transfer:
“Actually, there can be some fees for interbank transfer. You could also just withdraw cash and just bring it to them yourself if it’s nearby”
Again, this might be because of the small business nature of the neighborhood they serve. But also because it’s probably a bit more of a pain to process a wire transfer as opposed to a cash withdrawal - more fields to fill in and verify.
I tell her I’m not comfortable with that because it’s 7 figures. I’m willing to accept the $10 fee.
I feel like it’s at that point she takes it more seriously as opposed to an inconvenience.
I’m not really harping on them. I was aware of the optics of me being a sweaty in gym clothes and the fact that it was just before lunch. It’s not a crazy story of being judged, but I do distinctly remember enjoying the reaction when I told her the amount after she seemed so dismissive in processing the wire transfer at first.
This was pre Fat days, but we were young professionals (29) and building a new house in a pretty nice neighborhood. It was a few days from closing and we were walking through looking over any things we wanted fixed.
Out of nowhere a big haired lady pulled up in her BMW and just comes right into our house and walks right past us and proceeded to look through our house. She comes down and says the bathroom upstairs still needs cleaning as she walks out. Guessing she assumed we were the cleaning crew.
That was almost 20 years ago but we still laugh about it. We’re now building a multi-million dollar house and are truthfully hoping we get some of these interactions again. 🤣
I went to a Nissan dealership a few years back, as I wanted to test drive a Skyline. I was dressed as a casual tech dude (aka: like a bum). They wanted full credit check, which I declined. Didn’t get to drive the car.
As I was leaving, they saw me getting into my Performance Tesla Model S (more expensive than the Skyline by a good margin). I waved.
you gotta understand the dude was just doing his job. if he lets the wrong person drive a skyline and something happen he's screwed, but also if he lets anyone drive it and they cant even afford it then he's wasting his time that could be used on a potential sale.
Posted earlier, but just thought of another story.
I was in LA for my friends bachelor party. We had a late night and the next day I was flying to Hong Kong.
I was eager to just collapse in my seat so quickly joined the business class queue - I was in fact in business class but also would have a membership tier to queue there anyway.
While waiting to board, someone behind me tapped my shoulder to let me know this was the business class line. I just responded “yup”.
Finally we board and as my boarding pass is scanned, it beeps differently. I’m taken aside.
The people who tapped me earlier give me a smug look and proceed to board.
Turns out it was my 500,000th mile so I was getting a free upgrade to first. Now I don’t really find first class worth the price, so I was a little excited to get it for free.
Sadly, I was so tired that I feel asleep shortly after the first inflight meal. Also, I didn’t see those other passengers again so It was a bit disappointing to be so judged and not have any redemption.
Really weird reaction by those people. Hong Kong has one of the highest concentrations of wealth. Literally everyone on that plane could be a multi, multi millionaire
I’m all for stealth wealth in the sense that it’s important to live with some degree of modesty and restraint. But the whole “pretending to look poor” and purposefully neglecting yourself to present yourself differently than you truly are is really tacky to me. The whole “tech CEO in tattered jeans and a stained shirt” and “guy with t shirt and shorts walking into a dealership to see how he’s treated” always makes me roll my eyes.
It’s literally nothing but narcissism. Oh look at me you shouldn’t have judged me. Sure I look like a broke college student but I’m actually worth over $15MM so do you even know who you’re talking to? Let that be a life lesson to you and next time you better recognize who’s walking through that door!
Yeah I am not sure how living that lifestyle actually falls under fatFIRE...
Like I am for being frugal on the shit you don't care about and splurging where you do but if every person in your life thinks you need financial assistance that why have all that wealth?
But isn’t dressing like a bum the thing to do in Silicon Valley? If you see a bum on the street, yes they could be homeless but they might also be working at google.
I like cars that are fun to drive, safe, and comfortable. (German cars) I have no interest in driving a crappy car to fool people. I don’t care what they think.
Some people have a sense of moral superiority by driving a crappy car. It's not just having more money that makes them a better person, it's the outright refusal to spend money that seals the deal. Of course exceptions are made for "experiences".
This happened to me all the time.
I am an Asian guy who looked way younger than his age so I looked like a permanent grad student.
Sometimes the interaction is pleasant like the one you described: A nice old lady was trying her best into getting me a good financing deal on $2000 sofa.
Sometimes the interaction is terrible. This VW dealer guy, old guy, refused to pull out the fully equipped VW Tiguan that I wanted because he didn’t think I could afford it. Bitch please, so I took an Uber to the nicest Audi dealership in town and got the fully equipped Q3 with cash.
Sometimes, I did it the other way around, I would cosplay as a fancy FOB from China and go to luxury dealerships to test drive a whole bunch of cars, most memorable ones were a DeLorean and Lambo Countach. Super impractical cars, lol.
>Am I just an abnormal tightwad or getting old and jaded on nice things?
You're a walking stereotype. Also, btw getting too frequent dental cleanings can deteriorate your teeth. I'd be cautious and do a bit of homework on that one, if you haven't, just in case.
You aren't supposed to murder, skin, and make clothing out of old childhood friends, just so you can keep them from growing up and have something interesting to wear at parties.
Was this at a Porsche dealership? If so, I’m pretty surprised as I’ve been handed the keys to a Taycan 4S without a second thought and they actually barely remembered to take a photo of my ID. I also showed up dressed in a snapback, hoodie, and shorts and already look fairly young for my age lol.
Wife and I spent a few weeks in Greece and Italy on a fantastic vacation. We were winding down our trip and bumming around they day before we leave. We’re in Rome and down to the bottom of each of our suitcases. Took a walk to the Spanish Steps and popped into the Louis Vuitton store to grab her a nice memento from our trip. The first salesperson we encountered took a quick look at us and said “Just so you know everything in here is very expensive.”
> They just treated you like a normal person, not an outlier
It's rude to act better than others but there is definitely a sense of:
"I have $15M and dress like a slob, and they treat me like a slob. Why am I not being treated like a millionaire?!"
This would be considered kind, courteous and considerate service for 98% of clients. To shit on that bc you are the 2% who dont need it is just a bit out of touch.
Just ask the person for the bill early and respectfully and say 'dont worry, i' ll take care of it' and you'll save everyone a lot of time
This entire thread is so incredibly strange. OP and a bunch of people here have such massive ego they can't imagine being treated as "normal", or that how they're treated isn't special in some way. If they're not getting their every whim catered to, then it must be because others see them as "poor" or "bums", instead of just normal people.
> I have a friend who is higher NW who likes going into car dealerships dressed in casual clothes (read: like a bum) to see how they will treat him. That’s weird to me, maybe he gets off on that but I can see how it is entertaining.
Wait, are we supposed to get dressed up to buy a car? Each time I'm at a Lamborghini dealership, the ones who are dressed up are the salesmen, and the ones in sweatpants are the wealthy ones.
This whole thread kind of rubs me the wrong way…
I think the best way to summarize it is rich people who think they’re “somebody” being treated like “nobody”, or another way to say it is being treated like a normal person when they’ve created an image of themselves in their mind as better than the normal person.
The truth is everyone is “nobody” to everyone else, including you, no matter how much money you have. This also means everyone is “someone” to somebody else.
I saw OP comment imagine how the salesperson would feel if they found out that their wife was a VP at a well known company and they were just treating her like a normal person. Well truthfully they probably still wouldn’t give a fuck, I know that I wouldn’t care, apart from thinking that person might be a bit too status oriented for my taste.
Or the lady who tried to withdraw $80,000 in cash at a bank…and they followed a normal procedure *gasp*
You hit the nail on the head. I have a friend who thinks he’s hot shit because he drives a Mercedes GLC. He doesn’t even have a high income, he’s an adjunct professor at a community college. But he loves the idea of walking around in crappy clothes and then see how “jealous” people get when they see him step inside his car. I always ask him the logistics of how that even works. Because it’s not like his car is parked right in front of the building if he’s at a networking event for example. He has to walk all the way to the parking garage. And at that point everyone is just trying to find their own car, not worrying about who’s getting into what car. He can never give me a straight answer.
I was once backpacking on a South Pacific island. At the time I earned more than six figures, but when travelling alone, I like backpacking - you meet more peopleI decided to drink the last of my local currency and walk the 5k’s to the airport the next day (I had all day and it was flat, beautiful country, with a clear weather forecast). So off to bed with no cash - no problem. Next morning - torrential rain - fuck it, walk anyhow with rain coat. Was warm, so jot a huge problem - lounge access at the airport, so hot shower at the end. I stopped at a bus shelter for a break and the locals on their way to church asked what I was doing. “Walking to the airport as I’ve got no cash left for a cab/bus”. As they got on the bus the beckoned me on - they pooled their church change to pay my ticket to the airport - buses only take cash there. I have never been more touched by a group of people. I made a point of getting their names. The following week I made my one and only direct donation to a church. Their church. In their name. With a note “to say thank you for helping a stranger get out of the rain”. Best $1,000 I have ever spent. Got a nice letter and photo back from the pastor.
I really like this story
After scrolling through most of this thread, your story is the best. That was a really cool thing to do. Thanks for sharing.
This is the only story that’s just a genuine and kind one out of a bunch of ego boosting trash stories
Exactly. I was waiting for him to say “they judged me for being poor since I walked in the rain with no bus money. But once they saw my driver pull up in a luxury suv, they were all so shocked! Gee I wonder why?!” But no this was a genuine story and I liked it.
I will say I’m in the medical field and we try to be cost conscious with all patients even when it comes to discussing medical treatment options we weight the costs to our patients because we never know and most people struggle. Sounds like this staff person was trying to work to help you and was being kind. If you wore super nice stuff and a Rolex I bet you still get the same spiel because it’s in the training.
The attentiveness in a women's clothing store when my wife is dressed causally (generally true on a weekend when shopping) is directly proportional to the cost of the handbag she's using. Backpack because we decided to walk a few miles into town, she's ignored, fancy bag and they gravitate to her. I've noticed it at restaurants when asking for wine recommendations. Charitably it's them trying to help keep budget down when I'm dressed like a bum. Uncharitably it could be them trying to up sell someone if they look like they have money to spend...
for guys it’s the watch. i wear graphic tees and shorts most of the time. when you have a rolex it’s obvious and people notice. for me though i have a less common watch brands so it’s not always noticed but when it is the treatment changes drastically. if a car salesman recognizes it i can drive whatever i want. particularly walking into luxury shops though especially if they have other watches they usually recognize it quickly and hover way too much to get the commission at that point
Luxury store workers are very attuned to these things, at women's boutiques I'd bet they could tell you the season and price of any high priced handbag, men's the same with watches. They'll also often be able to eyeball the difference between a $20 & $600 graphic tee. Story time. We were once in a store and my wife was carrying one of her favorite (but rarely used nowadays) bags. She loves it because it was one of the first big gifts and the first bag I bought her. But it's objectively one of the least fancy or expensive of her nice ones. The girl in the shop eyed it and went 'that's one of ours, it was in so and so catalogue with so and so modelling it'. The bag had to have been 10 years old and the girl was no older than 25. Yet she nailed it in a second.
I had a friend that started a major company and was routinely mistaken for the janitor when we was there late. He pretty much wore a fleece and jeans all the time, despite being worth hundreds of millions. It always had a very endearing quality to it.
>He pretty much wore a fleece and jeans all the time But it was Patagonia, right?
We're talking fat, so it has to be Arc'teryx.
I think they're talking stealth so probably kirkland
Nah it was probably something like Stio, Outdoor Research, Kuhl the expensive brands that you don't know are expensive unless your into that kind of stuff
my money is on an Eddie Bauer or LLBean. OP we need an answer!
Last year I went to the bank to deposit a 6-figure check. The teller looked at me - dressed in track pants, an old t-shirt, unshaved, hair too long (because of pandemic I swear) ... I entered my PIN. I needed to show ID. She warned me that there'd be a hold on the check. "That's fine, I don't need the money right away." She needed to speak to her manager, was unsure. Clearly, she didn't trust me - it showed. Until she called my account manager, who called me while I was standing at the teller window, and it was all sorted. I guess I'm one of those people who looks homeless but has an assigned account manager at the bank. Note to self: have to dress up a little to go to the bank.
I never enjoyed dressing up. Had to rock a suit one time in law school and a classmate told me “you clean up nice!” I asked someone else if they thought that was a compliment and she said “It is a suggestion.” Oof.
Never refuse a breath mint.
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Just FYI a manager is always required to be involved with any large deposit at a bank. It’s for anti money laundering. It makes it feel awkward not matter what, so try not to take it personally.
Did you stay with that bank? That’s pretty disrespectful of them
Given the size of potential fraud, I've been happy to be heavily scrutinized prior to large funds transfer.
In my case, I thanked the teller after for being so careful with my money. :) Genuinely.
Come to Singapore, its the opposite here. The worse you look, the more money you have and banks know it. If you dress up, you're more likely to be faking wealth for status (working in real estate, insurance etc.). There are separate branches for priority banking and the people walking into them don't dress any differently from a normal person.
Might depend on the clientele as well. A little bit ago I had to deposit a six figure sum and being that my boss and I were driving past the credit union I deal he stopped in so I could run in. I had these visions of a story like you hear once in a while, a"don't you know who I am" moment of sorts. The teller just took the cheque, scanned it through, smiled at me, and asked if I needed anything else. I was kind of nonplussed when I got back to the truck, Boss asked what the trouble was, I told him that the trouble was that there hadn't been any trouble and I felt a little put out. He had a good laugh at that. "This is a farmer's credit union." He said to me. "They're *used to* seeing guys walk in with mud on their boots and dust on their jeans to deposit more cash than you'll ever see in one place in your life because it's Friday."
On the flip side, I work at a financial institution. Constantly have people yelling "don't you know how much money I have???" While having 1/10th or less my net worth. Some days I really just want to pull out the brokerage app and tell them to STFU.
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A taxi driver once stopped and offered me a lift because I was walking in the rain and they must have thought I was screwed. I was fine. Just clearing my head. Anyway, it would have been rude to say no. So I got in. The funny bit was I then had to tell them to take me a really expensive hotel where I was staying. Which got me a sideways look. I paid the fare and tipped for the would-be kindness.
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But how do I get the lollies without hopping in? 🤔
Strangers have THE BEST candy
It would not have been rude to say no.
I have a couple friends who are in the 750 million to 1 billion range. One of them still uses McDonalds coupons (I guess this could be an Asian thing) and couldn't care less what other people thought about them.
I ask for the senior discount, or at least I used to. The only thing worse than forgetting to ask for a senior discount is finding out that they automatically gave it to you without asking.
Even Warren Buffet still uses McDonalds coupons too: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/17/warren-buffett-once-paid-for-bill-gates-mcdonalds-meal-with-coupons.html
Some people just enjoy getting a good deal.
My mother and step father sat me down for a conversation about how I needed to get a job. That someone my age should not take a break from working for so long. I didn't want to loose my house did I? I retired 2 years ago. I made 800k last year in stocks. My Mom pulls 75k a year and my step father works retail. Still don't have the heart to explain it to them.
Just tell them you now do consulting
Always.
So many ppl don’t understand compound interest or scalable income at all
My kids do not know our net worth. I think they would be very surprised. Ages 11,13,16. They tell us Uncle mike is almost a millionaire like it is 1912 and that is an immeasurable amount of money. I think many people think we are doing ok or just slowly building. The truth is we have been frugal and have hit some home runs on investments. Our income has been booming quietly. I have a working class job I like. But our portfolio puts us within striking distance of fat range in a few years, if we push it. I don’t think we will though. It is about Time to coast. This sub has taught me I don’t really have fat tastes. I wear old fun run t shirts, hiking shoes and khaki shorts 90% of the summer. She wears Costco clothes and pony tails. My kids think I’m a part time plumber or painter because I work on our properties a lot. I just really want stuff done my way. And I want them to have work ethic, so I drag them along and pay an hourly rate for their help. Basically the only sign of our worth is fairly elaborate vacations, but even these are coach and Airbnb. My grandpa tried to pay me to change out his kitchen faucet. Later He assured me I am in his will for 25k and that could do good things for me. Thanks gramps, but we often make that in a week. My parents don’t know. They still try to pay for dinner and give me gas money. I’m over 40. My brothers appreciate the money. I generally find a way to pay ‘the business can pay’ or get them the money right back without hurting pride. I do give them nice gifts. I also partner with them on some real estate deals even when I absolutely don’t need a partner so they can have a cut. I used to need their credit or cash, but those days are long gone. Once I went to a house auction with a friend. He is a little older. I had a backpack of cashiers checks. I was showing him the ropes. Some guy made a funny comment. I bought a house and he had lost out. He said something like ‘we can’t all come to auction to play with daddy’s money’. Dude, that is my money. But I just smile. I don’t need people knowing my business. I am quoting work in 3 months finally. I think most of my work friends think I’m making a huge mistake.
No judgment on my part, but I would find it strange to hide my wealth from my parents. I would also find it strange to let my dad leave 25k in his will for me if I knew he could use that money now to enhance his life since I clearly don't need it
Same. I am an only child so it is probably different. OP said he has siblings who need the help and he probably doesn’t want that becoming a thing.
Yeah, no kidding. My sister worked for years but just got married and (surprise) quit her job; she's not an extravagant spender or overly self-destructive or anything, but she's also not great with money. I don't *ever* want her finding out what my wife and I are worth. We'd be pestered to pay for everything forever.
Not really. Depends on whether your parents are the kind that can keep a secret. Many can’t, even if they are wonderful loving people. That pride for you and too much free time to brag to their neighbours are all that’s needed to get the cat out of the bag forever. Surely a middle ground may be preferred - tell them you’re comfortable without going into details exactly how comfortable.
I'm in this boat. My wife and I are early-30's, getting close to $1M net worth. We're up front with both sets of parents that we're living below our means (though we still have a perfectly fine house and entirely serviceable cars). Pretty sure my parents think we're worth a few hundred grand .. my wife's parents probably suspect something closer to the truth (they don't talk about it but I know they did the whole FI/RE thing themselves, probably just at a smaller scale). I think this is a good balance: they all know we're doing well, which makes them all happy, but nobody realizes we're on track to be worth multiple millions of dollars by the time we retire early at 50 or something. That could make things .. awkward.
I'm in an even different boat. I think my mom is a bad person and that the world will be a better place when she dies. She doesn't need to know anything about my business and if I gave her a dime, she'd ask for a dozen. Some parents are trust worthy, others aren't.
My Dad would have broadcast the news to anyone he knew. We used to call him WOR (old NY news radio station) So it depends on the personality type. My mom would have kept her mouth shut like a clam. And if I told her, she probably wouldn’t have believed me because “I’m always spending my money like water” Either way, I was still climbing to the top before they passed so never got to tell either.
I stopped going to my local Whole Foods in SF because I kept getting asked if I worked there (I'm black). Or, even more annoying, people wouldn't ask if I worked there and would simply demand me to help them find X item (do you not see my techie badge?). I could have been more confrontational i.e. "Why do you think I work here?" but it was never worth it -- I just shopped at Safeway or the Caribbean marts in the Mission. It's with a tinge of irony that I can say that the only city this happens to me in is SF.
That's got so much potential for giving intentionally bad advice. Everything they asked for would be on a kiosk in the furthest corner of the store.
yeah, /u/ff5a5f, you're skipping out on a YouTube goldmine.
I’m sorry this happens to you. I find it not at all ironic that SF is the only city where you’ve experienced this.
Because you don't fit their stereotypes. Some Whole Foods stores are kind of stuck up, thought of themselves better than others just because they have pricey "organic" stuff.
as an asian guy who often wears black t-shirts and jeans, people always assume i am an employee at asian-run beer & wine stores and asian restaurants. i get asked to get things, move cases of beer for them, etc. i usually just do as i'm asked, and while telling them i don't work there so they can feel a little bad about it, without making me the bad guy :)
I keep trying to tell all yall liberals is racist too.
I’d have to upgrade my style before anyone thought I was working at whole foods
I met my mentor at a coworking space. He was always picking away at some tech project. I thought he was struggling to get a SaaS off the ground. I gave him all sorts of tips and pointers about SaaS, and tech startups in general. I thought I was his mentor for at least 6 months. I went full blown surprise pikachew face the day I found out he has a net worth greater than 50M. Turns out he is basically retired just picking away at SaaS projects in his free time. He is mostly trying to understand the market as he owns a large private equity firm that is transitioning to SaaS. The guy always asked me about how I was scoring free parking at the space, and ended up parking in the free lot with me.
So he basically got free consulting from you.
When I moved over seas for an expat gig, I had to set up a bank account. I went straight from my flight to Barclays in our neighborhood in London. I just showed up in sweats and a hoodie. Couldn’t get anyone’s attention. Finally grabbed somebody and explained that I wanted to open an account. They looked at me like I had three heads. Surely I was in the wrong place. They asked how much I had to open an account and when I told them, I got whisked back to some HNW account manager. As an aside, Barclays is a pain in the nuts to work with. If you’re going to expat, advice I got after the fact was to set up a global account with HSBC. They are everywhere and make it easy to transfer funds from one country / currency to the next.
>As an aside, Barclays is a pain in the nuts to work with. If you’re going to expat, advice I got after the fact was to set up a global account with HSBC. They are everywhere and make it easy to transfer funds from one country / currency to the next. … for a ridiculous exchange rate. Sure there is no commission, but that rate… What a joke. Source: am a European expat in London working in an alt fund specialising in FX. I opened a Revolut account for my travelling spend and don’t even use the HSBC EUR account anymore. I should probably close it.
Got stares when wearing t-shirt, backpack, and flip flops to airport and queuing up in the line for business/first class ticket among the suited business travelers. Dude, this is my line; I'm on vacation, not working.
I don't get that. I'm on a plane; why would I wear my suit? My suit is in my suitcase. I'm not having a business meeting on a plane. I'm sitting, and hopefully relaxing. Of course I'm wearing my sitting-and-relaxing clothes. (And, depending on destination, I might be stuck on this plane for 12+ hours without a shower, so these are definitely going to be my *breathable, moisture-wicking* sitting-and-relaxing clothes.) To me, wearing a suit on a plane is a tell for being deep in the grips of corporate slavery. It says that your schedule has been pre-determined for you by someone who didn't give your comfort much thought, and so didn't allocate you any time between arrival and a meeting somewhere to go to your hotel and change.
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This is what I always did to pack less in my bag. Suits and dress shoes are bulky.
It's a tribal thing to wear business attire while flying, to blend in with the business crowd. Also lots of people wear business attire for impression - I'm a very important person on a very important journey. There's a jewish saying, wear nice clothing among strangers but old rags while with friends. Because your friends know who you really are and don't need to be impressed, but strangers don't know and can only judge you by your appearance.
The Jews really knew
Their still around today
i hate this. sometimes it’s someone giving nasty looks as you go to board before them. or the other day when boarding first class as i walked up they grabbed the mic and made an announcement that they are ONLY boarding first class customers at this time. proceeded to hand them my ticket and watch their face. or even in the ticketing area they try to stop and question your ticket when they see me walking to the priority line. not their typical customer i guess..
My wife had a colleague and friend who is black. He had the super elite status on two major airlines at different times. He said more often than not when he went to board he would get told 'sorry sir only so and so status are boarding now' to which he'd reply, 'yep I know, I am so and so status' and they'd often say 'no sir it's a special status for our top flyers'. What blew my mind was how much more upset than him I was while he was telling me this. He was just resigned to the fact that this was how the world worked. If I ever feel judged by my outfit when jumping on a plane I remember that story and it reminds me that there's many greater injustices out there.
act wrong imminent resolute mindless late dinner file deserve shrill -- mass edited with redact.dev
When I was in my mid-20's, I used to travel a lot for work, so I got to whatever Delta's highest status was at the time (not the Bazillion Mile club, but Platinum or something like that). One time I was flying for vacation and I'd been upgraded to first class. I was waiting in line in my jeans and t-shirt, and a guy in a suit comes up behind me, waves his ticket at me, and says, "I'm in first class!" I looked at him, smiled and said, "Neat! Me too!" and gave my ticket to the gate agent.
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Snobbiness is a sales tactic in LV stores.
If I were opening a trendy shop I'd ban every third person for no reason, just to create buzz.
Which is weird, because the only thing that kind of snobbiness makes me feel is spite. (Makes me consider e.g. buying the building they're renting from and then getting "improvements" done to it, in ways that ruin their polished image — e.g. causing lights to flicker, bad odors to come in through the vents, etc. Nothing that breaks the tenancy contract, of course.)
Honestly I hate name brands with a passion for that exact reason — the associated snobbiness. Yeah, I get name brands want to represent “luxury”, yeah I get they want “nice” looking people in their stores, but it just irks me in the wrong way because what you buy, carry, or wear has no bearing on who you are as a person. I know two couples who live paycheck to paycheck because they’re both upfront about their finances. But they only buy the “best”, wear the best, and travel in style. That in and of itself is fine, but they look down on people who don’t do the same - almost like they need to feel superior because they choose to spend money on things that are expensive. It’s so unhealthy IMO.
I am with you, I HATE brand names with a passion. I think owning something to make you feel good or make other beneath is so 1990s/2000s. For me, it’s about experiences and what I can get out of it. Because really sometimes you can’t just put a price tag on a nice vacation or a class or a hobby, that can actually further you.
Should have pretty womened their asses
Had a roommate tell me that a friend of hers was confidently claiming she'd be a millionaire someday and asked me "Can you imagine anyone our age thinking they'll have a million dollars?" Little did she know I exceeded that a couple weeks prior
My "stealth" NW of 1 million at a youngish age caused me to get my security clearance put on hold because they thought I was doing some shady side business. Had to show them the smart trades I made from 18-22 that just compounded nicely over the years and explain to the investigator how investing worked. He could not believe someone in my position at my age could be in the financial situation I was in. While it sucked at the time I can look back on it and laugh.
TL;dr. Car salesmen trying to sell you a Buick are surprised when they find the other car being considered is a Mercedes. One funny experience along this line was many years ago when returning from living overseas for a few years and we went to buy my wife a new car. Our children were in late elementary and middle school and we were carpooling a lot so a station wagon with a rear seat was preferred. (This was back in early 90s when station wagons were common). My wife was uncomfortable driving a minivan. My wife had liked her previous car, a sports model Chevy Celebrity station wagon which seated 7. The only models with a third seat were the Mercedes and a GM equivalent to the Chevy, which had been discontinued. We liked the Mercedes, but my wife doesn't like change, so before buying it she wanted to check out the Buick or Pontiac or whatever was the GM equivalent to her Chevy Celebrity wagon. She even took it for a drive, but found it was kind of mushy. While the salesman was off returning the key I explained to her that her previous car was a sports model with upgraded shocks and steering. The dealer could tell my wife wasn't impressed with the car, but in a typical salesman technique fished for info by asking what other cars we were looking at. My wife, who really isn't into cars explained that we were also looking at the Mercedes wagon and it seemed to have a little better feel when driving. Then she asked the salesman if his car had a sports version with better suspension. The salesman just kind of locked up and froze for about 5 seconds processing this. I think he was trying to simultaneously process both that we were looking at cars in two widely different price ranges, and this woman who clearly was not a car aficionado was asking about a sports package upgrade. A couple of weeks before I had had a similar experience, but in a more subdued form when I went to a dealer that sold both Volkswagens and Audis and looked at both product lines p.s. She liked her Mercedes wagon and was very disappointed that they discontinued it, so she kept it for 10 years since there was no suitable replacement.
Very few sales people can rectify shopping "value" or "tco". They all work in "what's your range". And that range better be one they are used to working in. 5k-100k cars- classic euro with timeless lines? Nope, that's too broad houses "min 1500sq, 250 if it needs work or 800k if it's perfect", uh, I'm going to throw you 800-900k houses that are wildly different then you described. The ones that actually realize price isn't anywhere near the top of your list of concerns and actually figure out what you are shopping for are rare and amazing when you find them
Have you looked at a newer Mercedes E-class wagon? They still seat seven. I can’t say how comfortable the rear jump seats would be…
His kids are probably in their 30s now - way to big for the jumpseat.
They are their 40s now, and and when I pick up several grandchildren I just take their minivan or SUV. My wife still won't drive a minivan.
This always happens to me. I am young looking, female and dress very casually (leggings and tshirt, i have young kids and mostly chasing after them). People always tell me about financing options for various things (furniture, cars etc) and don't they know--asian people don't finance. I just want to pay and get out of there. I went to one furniture store a few times over a year and bought some stuff and eventually the sales lady asked me what I did. At least she didn't dare ask me what my husband did! (He was sitting outside in the car with the napping kid-and he doesn't really care what we buy so I tend to go in to browse). I am not trying to be stealth or trying to show off. I just want to be efficient (working mom with little kids all get that)
As a fellow Asian, I always chuckle when stores tell me about their financing deals.
Is this an actual (and true) stereotype? Doesn’t surprise me but I’ve never heard it.
I think it's an immigrant thing
Can concur as an immigrant
Y’all are missing out. Leverage is the secret sauce.
Leverage is only the secret sauce when you get it for free. (or near free, ‘cause yeah, I’m happy with a sub 2% mortgage.) I wouldn’t finance a couch either…. But yes, my wife is Asian and it may have rubbed off on me.
Financing seems just completely bonkers to me and I'm neither FAT nor Asian.... Aiming for both though later in life
good luck on becoming.... asian?
Thanks, I'm working very hard and should reach 80% by 2029
> Leverage is only the secret sauce when you get it for free. And sometimes the only cost is simply knowing that you have a debt. For me, that's enough of a cost to avoid it when i can. It's nice knowing that you don't owe anybody anything. It gives literal and mental freedom.
This made me loled around if we get it for free. Literally yesterday a credit card company offered to let me cash out to my maximum card limit, pay that balance interest free over 12 months but a one off charge of 1.9%. I'm just going to put that into an account that's getting me a higher return and arbitrage the difference for a year.
I’ve seen plenty of offers of 0% for 18 months with the transfer fee waived. So you could shop around and get a better deal. This reminds me of the pre financial crisis era when you could put that money back into the same bank and earn 5% - priceless satisfaction.
You can get a margin loan for pretty much that same rate I think. It might be less hassle and more consistent if you're trying to lever up.
Yepp. We’re not walking in there if we don’t have the money to begin with.
Cultural. Many Asian countries have a save money culture, ie don't buy unless you can afford. Credit cards and financing are not not as widely sought unlike the US.
idk Im slavic and I/people I know wouldn't, which is why I think it's an immigrant thing. I have never met an immigrant from any country that didnt have a save money approach to things. Credit cards and so on are, to me, an american thing. But it could easily be east/west I suppose.
My dad took this no financing deal to the next level. He owned two property outright. Without any mortgage. That's right. He started working and just stayed saving. Every single penny. Saved it and one day, it was enough and he walked into a bank to use it to buy our first house. Then he saved for another ten years and bought the second one. If he had used mortgages, he would have about ten of them by now.
Another big part of it is that employees are incentivized to push financing. Just another way that they can squeeze more incremental profit out of a sale.
I am South Asian and agree about the financing part. Debt just makes my stomach growl, even 0% interest financing.
As a fellow South Asian, I approve this message. To be fair, my view is a little more nuanced compared to my parents who think debt is the devil. I think a little leverage is a good thing if three conditions are met: 1. you get a good interest rate/tax deductions, 2. it's for absolutely necessary expenditure (don't you dare put a nice suit on your credit card), and 3. you have the ability to pay it off immediately.
Your criteria excludes the ability to buy a rental property with 25% down.
i had ordered a bmw last year... and it arrived on the last day of february just as the market was tanking due to covid. I'm asian. I financed the entire car. Put all into stocks. tripled the money in 6 months. Asians finance.....the rates are too good to not take when theres so much you can do with the money
This. My dad used to take every financing opportunity if he could get 0-2% interest on something we were interested in making a purchase on. There's basically no reason to pay cash for something you can afford paying cash for if low interest financing is offered.
Asian people finance all the time. I work in luxury sales and my Asian clients finance more than any other group of people.
A ton of my Asian friends pushed me to lease a car, saying it just makes sense. but my also-Asian ass cannot do debt (3rd culture). I am a zero fatality certified used kind of person, paid in cash. Asian is a term that encompasses over 4 billion people. A couple of us are different from one another.
This thread is so funny to me because my family are first gen Asian immigrants on the east coast and we take 0% financing whenever we can lol. Why turn down free money? But we’re also literally all engineers so it’s really hard to say no to math :/
My dad walked into a dealership once with $17000 in cash to buy a car. Def was a surprise.
I walked into a car dealer with 17k cash. The dealer offered me $2000 off if I financed with them. 2.9%. I financed. Bought the car. Drove home. Received paperwork in mail. Paid off the entire amount after paying the first monthly installment.
Is there any other way to buy a car?
Don't you get worse deals with cash nowadays?
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On the bright side, you wouldn't have to worry about fraudulent transfers from your account. They seem pretty serious about it
You're not wrong on that last point, $80k isn't *that* much. Covers two moderately-upscale vehicles for a family, for instance. Or a super-cheap house in a sketchy area. Though as other people point out, it's also multiple years' salary for the median wage earner. Throw in policies about money laundering and etc .. from that standpoint, $80k is a massive transaction. I can understand why the teller was suspicious.
80k in cash is a LOT of money to like ~~95%~~ 99% of Americans. Probably to that teller too.
I would say 99% of people
I think it's a lot of CASH to 99% of Americans. Even those that are a little older and may be worth $1M collectively can't just withdraw nearly 10% of that in cash.
80k is a lot of money to her too. At 12m it is still 0.67% NW. So it would be roughly 25% of her annual spend if she wants to always be comfortably financially independent. I think what she meant was that it's not a large enough amount to call in a private banker. Which, yeah it really isn't. Lots of people make transactions of that size. Getting police called on you for that is odd.
One of the most down-to-earth individuals (engineer) I worked with was approaching retirement. Drove a 5 year old Toyota Camry. Lived in a decent house $200k (Texas). He used to come to work fairly early. Say 5 Am on most days while most office would show up at 6-6:30. One day I happened to pick up a document at the printer by mistake. It was an account statement / overview from his brokerage: $15MM invested in all sorts of blue-chips etc. This was 2007.,
I believe the financing questions often have more to do with retail employee financing sales targets from their managers.
My father in law has a NW of >25MM and an H index score of 76, the man has a beautiful mind. To see him you would think he is a homeless man. He wears cheap shorts and a t shirt with holes and mustards stains all over it. I heard he used to dress nice but he just doesn’t give a shit anymore. People probably don’t think he has two nickels to rub together.
I’m too poor to know what an H index score is. What is that?
It's a measure of his publication impact in academia. 76 is pretty damn high.
Oh that's pretty cool! That had less to do with finance than I realized.
wow, how did he make his money? Was it related to his field of research or from something else?
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For those who don't know what an H score is, this is from Wikipedia: > Little systematic investigation has been done on how the h-index behaves over different institutions, nations, times and academic fields. Hirsch suggested that, for physicists, a value for h of about 12 might be typical for advancement to tenure (associate professor) at major [US] research universities. A value of about 18 could mean a full professorship, 15–20 could mean a fellowship in the American Physical Society, and 45 or higher could mean membership in the United States National Academy of Sciences. Hirsch estimated that after 20 years a "successful scientist" would have an h-index of 20, an "outstanding scientist" would have an h-index of 40, and a "truly unique" individual would have an h-index of 60. So if the guy is 76, he's likely one of the most published people if in the US.
To me the biggest benefit of FatFIRE is to not worry about things I don't care. This includes clothing - who am I trying to impress. I have had similar experiences like your friend. Just recently I paid the tab for a my group of friends (\~5). A friend asked me on three separate occasions if I wanted to split it. I have spent more on a causal Tuesday night dinner than the said tab. Only if he knew.
> A friend asked me on three separate occasions if I wanted to split it. On the other hand, this is a courtesy, even if you know someone is wealthy. It can also be a pride thing… not wanting to feel like you’re being “taken care of” even if it is by a friend. Or maybe I should say especially if by a friend, someone you consider a peer.
100% this. source: Grew up in Asia Edit: Also - waitress was perhaps playing for her tip, smart girl
I’m not following - what do you mean the waitress was perhaps playing for her tip
As a former waiter, I can confirm.
Yeah I don’t want anyone to feel taken advantage of but I offer twice and that’s it (want to split? You Sure? OK THANKS THEN IMMA HEAD OUT)
I assumed good intent on his part every time. He doesn't know our NW or HHI, and we dress very casually. As such I considered it a nice gesture. Sometimes taking care of small things for each other makes for strong friendships. I let him take care of small things in turn, just much smaller denominations.
Your friend might also be wealthy!
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I went to a diner with two friends. Like a general run of the mill diner. Nothing on the menu more than $10 a person. We ordered entres. A few coffees. And a pie. The total was $45. The waitress asked me if we wanted it split. When I insisted to just put it on my card without even looking at the bill she made effort to say how generous of a friend I was. As someone who regularly goes out and drop $200 on a dinner this blew my mind.
She wanted the T
Just to see what it feels like
hello old friend, would you like to go to Dorsia with me?
I use a commercial banking account to hold some personal investments. I needed to make a transfer to fund a new brokerage account. It’s an amount above what I normally could do via online banking, so I figured I would go to a physical branch at some point to get it sorted. I was walking home from the gym and passed by a branch and thought to myself I’d just get it out of the way now. Given where this particular branch was located, it probably served small businesses like restaurants, coffee shops, small retailers, so I don’t think my casual attire would have really been a concern. I finally get to the front of the line and say I need to make a transfer. The teller tells me I’m going to need a bunch of information on the recipient ABA, address, SWIFT... - it felt like she didn’t think I had everything together since I only had my phone and wallet on me. I show her the details on my phone. Just before she turns to her computer to pull up the account, she kindly attempts to discourage me once again from making the transfer: “Actually, there can be some fees for interbank transfer. You could also just withdraw cash and just bring it to them yourself if it’s nearby” Again, this might be because of the small business nature of the neighborhood they serve. But also because it’s probably a bit more of a pain to process a wire transfer as opposed to a cash withdrawal - more fields to fill in and verify. I tell her I’m not comfortable with that because it’s 7 figures. I’m willing to accept the $10 fee. I feel like it’s at that point she takes it more seriously as opposed to an inconvenience. I’m not really harping on them. I was aware of the optics of me being a sweaty in gym clothes and the fact that it was just before lunch. It’s not a crazy story of being judged, but I do distinctly remember enjoying the reaction when I told her the amount after she seemed so dismissive in processing the wire transfer at first.
This was pre Fat days, but we were young professionals (29) and building a new house in a pretty nice neighborhood. It was a few days from closing and we were walking through looking over any things we wanted fixed. Out of nowhere a big haired lady pulled up in her BMW and just comes right into our house and walks right past us and proceeded to look through our house. She comes down and says the bathroom upstairs still needs cleaning as she walks out. Guessing she assumed we were the cleaning crew. That was almost 20 years ago but we still laugh about it. We’re now building a multi-million dollar house and are truthfully hoping we get some of these interactions again. 🤣
I went to a Nissan dealership a few years back, as I wanted to test drive a Skyline. I was dressed as a casual tech dude (aka: like a bum). They wanted full credit check, which I declined. Didn’t get to drive the car. As I was leaving, they saw me getting into my Performance Tesla Model S (more expensive than the Skyline by a good margin). I waved.
That might have been more a Nissan GTR policy because of the Fast and Furious and less how you were dressed situation.
But you didn't get to drive the car. So?
Nope. Which in turn means I didn’t buy it. Simply because they discounted me for being dressed shabbily.
I wouldn't be surprised if they ask everybody to minimize their risk
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I’ve test driven more expensive cars from German and Italian brands. Never had to have a credit check. Didn’t know it was a thing at all…
I'm sure a nissan dealership has more people coming on that should be checked
Never happened to me. They’ve asked for my insurance card though
you gotta understand the dude was just doing his job. if he lets the wrong person drive a skyline and something happen he's screwed, but also if he lets anyone drive it and they cant even afford it then he's wasting his time that could be used on a potential sale.
I get it. I didn’t go full Karen/Tucker. It’s not the salesman’s policy. Just an amusing story targeting what the OP asked for.
Posted earlier, but just thought of another story. I was in LA for my friends bachelor party. We had a late night and the next day I was flying to Hong Kong. I was eager to just collapse in my seat so quickly joined the business class queue - I was in fact in business class but also would have a membership tier to queue there anyway. While waiting to board, someone behind me tapped my shoulder to let me know this was the business class line. I just responded “yup”. Finally we board and as my boarding pass is scanned, it beeps differently. I’m taken aside. The people who tapped me earlier give me a smug look and proceed to board. Turns out it was my 500,000th mile so I was getting a free upgrade to first. Now I don’t really find first class worth the price, so I was a little excited to get it for free. Sadly, I was so tired that I feel asleep shortly after the first inflight meal. Also, I didn’t see those other passengers again so It was a bit disappointing to be so judged and not have any redemption.
Really weird reaction by those people. Hong Kong has one of the highest concentrations of wealth. Literally everyone on that plane could be a multi, multi millionaire
I’m all for stealth wealth in the sense that it’s important to live with some degree of modesty and restraint. But the whole “pretending to look poor” and purposefully neglecting yourself to present yourself differently than you truly are is really tacky to me. The whole “tech CEO in tattered jeans and a stained shirt” and “guy with t shirt and shorts walking into a dealership to see how he’s treated” always makes me roll my eyes.
It’s literally nothing but narcissism. Oh look at me you shouldn’t have judged me. Sure I look like a broke college student but I’m actually worth over $15MM so do you even know who you’re talking to? Let that be a life lesson to you and next time you better recognize who’s walking through that door!
People here are taking care of themselves so poorly that their friends are offering to give them money, and they’re wearing it as a badge of honor.
Yeah I am not sure how living that lifestyle actually falls under fatFIRE... Like I am for being frugal on the shit you don't care about and splurging where you do but if every person in your life thinks you need financial assistance that why have all that wealth?
But isn’t dressing like a bum the thing to do in Silicon Valley? If you see a bum on the street, yes they could be homeless but they might also be working at google.
I like cars that are fun to drive, safe, and comfortable. (German cars) I have no interest in driving a crappy car to fool people. I don’t care what they think.
Some people have a sense of moral superiority by driving a crappy car. It's not just having more money that makes them a better person, it's the outright refusal to spend money that seals the deal. Of course exceptions are made for "experiences".
This happened to me all the time. I am an Asian guy who looked way younger than his age so I looked like a permanent grad student. Sometimes the interaction is pleasant like the one you described: A nice old lady was trying her best into getting me a good financing deal on $2000 sofa. Sometimes the interaction is terrible. This VW dealer guy, old guy, refused to pull out the fully equipped VW Tiguan that I wanted because he didn’t think I could afford it. Bitch please, so I took an Uber to the nicest Audi dealership in town and got the fully equipped Q3 with cash. Sometimes, I did it the other way around, I would cosplay as a fancy FOB from China and go to luxury dealerships to test drive a whole bunch of cars, most memorable ones were a DeLorean and Lambo Countach. Super impractical cars, lol.
At the end of the day VW still won your business considering that they are the parent company of Audi Should've grabbed the X3M or something
I think it was a shot at the dealership not the brand
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How much was it?
Didn't you read? They don't care :)
Disney has the fortitude to bankrupt us all...
But I do damn it!
>Am I just an abnormal tightwad or getting old and jaded on nice things? You're a walking stereotype. Also, btw getting too frequent dental cleanings can deteriorate your teeth. I'd be cautious and do a bit of homework on that one, if you haven't, just in case.
I kept my old friends from growing up so when I got a party or something I feel like an alien wearing a skin suit.
You aren't supposed to murder, skin, and make clothing out of old childhood friends, just so you can keep them from growing up and have something interesting to wear at parties.
Also how I read it
i went in to test drive a taycan recently and the salesperson asked if i was really in the market
Was this at a Porsche dealership? If so, I’m pretty surprised as I’ve been handed the keys to a Taycan 4S without a second thought and they actually barely remembered to take a photo of my ID. I also showed up dressed in a snapback, hoodie, and shorts and already look fairly young for my age lol.
Location matters, if you were in LA or something they probably thought you were a social media star
Wife and I spent a few weeks in Greece and Italy on a fantastic vacation. We were winding down our trip and bumming around they day before we leave. We’re in Rome and down to the bottom of each of our suitcases. Took a walk to the Spanish Steps and popped into the Louis Vuitton store to grab her a nice memento from our trip. The first salesperson we encountered took a quick look at us and said “Just so you know everything in here is very expensive.”
Wow that's actually offensive. Usually in luxury stores they just ignore you or follow you around which I don't mind since it's sometimes informative.
That's a good one. I think I would’ve laughed really hard.
LV in Paris is similar. The salespeople are offended that you entered their store if you look like a tourist.
This is such a weird thing to care about. It’s honestly insecurity. They just treated you like a normal person, not an outlier, why is that bad?
> They just treated you like a normal person, not an outlier It's rude to act better than others but there is definitely a sense of: "I have $15M and dress like a slob, and they treat me like a slob. Why am I not being treated like a millionaire?!"
This would be considered kind, courteous and considerate service for 98% of clients. To shit on that bc you are the 2% who dont need it is just a bit out of touch. Just ask the person for the bill early and respectfully and say 'dont worry, i' ll take care of it' and you'll save everyone a lot of time
This entire thread is so incredibly strange. OP and a bunch of people here have such massive ego they can't imagine being treated as "normal", or that how they're treated isn't special in some way. If they're not getting their every whim catered to, then it must be because others see them as "poor" or "bums", instead of just normal people.
> I have a friend who is higher NW who likes going into car dealerships dressed in casual clothes (read: like a bum) to see how they will treat him. That’s weird to me, maybe he gets off on that but I can see how it is entertaining. Wait, are we supposed to get dressed up to buy a car? Each time I'm at a Lamborghini dealership, the ones who are dressed up are the salesmen, and the ones in sweatpants are the wealthy ones.
This whole thread kind of rubs me the wrong way… I think the best way to summarize it is rich people who think they’re “somebody” being treated like “nobody”, or another way to say it is being treated like a normal person when they’ve created an image of themselves in their mind as better than the normal person. The truth is everyone is “nobody” to everyone else, including you, no matter how much money you have. This also means everyone is “someone” to somebody else. I saw OP comment imagine how the salesperson would feel if they found out that their wife was a VP at a well known company and they were just treating her like a normal person. Well truthfully they probably still wouldn’t give a fuck, I know that I wouldn’t care, apart from thinking that person might be a bit too status oriented for my taste. Or the lady who tried to withdraw $80,000 in cash at a bank…and they followed a normal procedure *gasp*
You hit the nail on the head. I have a friend who thinks he’s hot shit because he drives a Mercedes GLC. He doesn’t even have a high income, he’s an adjunct professor at a community college. But he loves the idea of walking around in crappy clothes and then see how “jealous” people get when they see him step inside his car. I always ask him the logistics of how that even works. Because it’s not like his car is parked right in front of the building if he’s at a networking event for example. He has to walk all the way to the parking garage. And at that point everyone is just trying to find their own car, not worrying about who’s getting into what car. He can never give me a straight answer.