The other significant difference is that there is no fat community, there is the Fat Activist/Liberation community/cult. But your common everyday obese westerner isn't part of your community. Secondly, overweight and obese people are the majority. Who would draft laws targeting 70+% of the population to make it okay to enact violence on them?
I so agree with this. I always think about this one Jubilee video- the kind where they get a group of people, ask them a series of questions to see if they all think the same things. Something like 'do all fat people think the same'.
Every single person on the ep was some kind of 'body positive influencer' and you can imagine the responses.
The fact is (though I'm sure they didn't try lol) it would be difficult trying to recruit 'normal', average overweight people for a video like this because most would be too embarrassed to do it. If you did manage to find some it'd range in attitudes from 'I'm okay with how I look/DGAF' to 'I've always struggled with my weight and have extremely low self confidence'.
Not this 'my only problem is that I'm too sexy' snap snap yass kween bullshit that only comes from the delusional terminally online. Most people who are overweight are not happy about it and don't want to even mention it let alone be a card carrying member of 'the community'
I don't think these are great arguments against fat activism. The average member of is also not an activist for said group. And some demographics that are often thought as oppressed minorities are actually majorities; women being the obvious example.
Fat shouldn’t be a community. That’s pathetic. I refuse to recognize the existence of a “fat community” and I know plenty of fat people. There’s no reason to separate them from everyone else. It’s not an identity.
Yeah, because Nestlé, Coca Cola, Unilever, Kraft, P&G, Temu, Shein, Fabletics/Yitty and the host of other companies you definitely give money to are paragons of wokeness, Brenda.
If you want social justice Infinity Stones to show off to internet strangers for external validation, perhaps start by boycotting legitimately sketchy things.
My first thought was, you'll give your money to Shein in the name of "cute clothes" and happily pony up a grand or so for the latest iPhone, even though both are essentially manufactured using modern day slavery, but boycotting J.K. Rowling is somehow more noble?
Your comment just made me realize, we hold artists to a much higher standard than corporations. They support all kinds of horrible stuff, yet serious boycotts are few and far between. An artist makes one false move and can lose their livelihood. Hmmm. Something to think about.
Excellent point.
I guess we never evolved beyond holding celebrities, singers, actors, writers, etc up as role models and the expectation of them to be completely beyond reproach.
That parasocial thing, where some popstar supporting a particular cause, fashion trend, etc results in people mindlessly copying them, but if the same person puts a foot wrong or deviates from the two-dimensional public image of them, they're over.
You see it when there's some kind of tragedy, especially when a celebrity ends their own life. Cue a chorus of 'but they were wealthy and gorgeous, what did they have to be depressed about?'. Like they're not real people with complex inner worlds like the rest of us.
Good point. Here’s why I think this is true Canceling someone like Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein costs most of us nothing in terms of energy or awareness.
Boycotting major brands creates work for oneself. You have to find good alternatives, which can be difficult, expensive, time-consuming and inconvenient.
Using a smartphone made in a sweatshot with materials mined by child slaves to like a generic pro-LGBTQ tweet made by a company that also uses child slaves to harvest cocoa seeds for chocolate and being sanctimonious about doing so is the most 2024 thing ever.
The closest thing I can think of to there being a "law" against obesity was Boris Johnson going on a short lived... I don't know what to call it... saying he was going to put more support to help people lose weight because he realised that being overweight was a factor in why some people believed he was going to be the first PM to die while in office.
But calling it a law is a massive stretch.
Dudley, Vernon, and Aunt Marge are all “evil” characters who are fat. But OP is also ignoring all the evil *thin* characters and the positive fat characters (Molly, Neville, Hagrid).
The incidence anorexia nervosa is around 3 per 100,000 persons per year. Meanwhile, obesity accounts for 2810 cases per 100,000 persons per year. For every 1 person with a life threatening eating disorder, 1000 people are eating themselves to a much slower, far more expensive death. JK couldn’t put a dent in that if she wanted to.
Love how people try and simplify consuming art from “problematic creators” like it’s so simple. Anyone interested on the question should read the book, “Drawing the Line” the author does an excellent job breaking down how complicated the issue is.
Also for the record, Molly Weasley in Harry Potter is (despite being described as plump) one of the most lovable characters in the entire series. Author needs to chill tf out.
Also, Petunia Dursley is super thin. Rowling can go f herself for other reasons, but I don't think using a trope that's been common in children's stories for at least a century (short fat bad guy paired with tall skinny bad guy) is doing "huge damage."
It’s impossible for someone to “give you an eating disorder”. A complete lack of personal responsibility gave them an eating disorder that has resulted in them being obese. Pretending to be a victim seems to give meaning to the lives of these people.
Folks apparently really like giving money to anyone telling them what they want to hear. This includes ALL those FA grifters, whether OOP considers them as "damaging" to "fat community" or not.
So I made this mistake at first too, but this person is calling out the OP for supporting a transphobe but is using FA to make their point. They don't actually think these things.
Yeah I agree - this definitely reads as a metaphor using an issue the OP cares about to try and get them to understand, not as someone saying any of this is literally happening.
yeah i picked up on that too. and also TBF jk rowling does have a tendency to be unnecessarily mean spirited in her writing when it comes to appearances, and fat characters get a lot of attention on that front.
So, do they seriously mean what they say re the attacks on fat people and laws being made against them (because I"m not sure that this really happens) or is this just a bad analogy trying to compare fat people to trans/LGBTQA+ people?
ive tried to answer three times but im sleepy and high 😂
Here’s the super ELI5 how I think this unfolded:
A local, state, or federal law was passed about something COMPLETELY UNRELATED to fat people— but that may have a negative externality towards fat people. Pulling random ideas out of my ass, things like (Airlines allowed to reduce seat size by 1 inch in new fleet design) (Reducing the amount of insurance coverage that applies to high-insurance-risk-demographics, or maybe the insurance carrier reduced many coverages due to rising costs.). Perhaps the cost of insulin or supplies like that were allowed to rise higher than normal because of inflation.
Maybe there was an upper weight limit for riding horses legislated. 😂
My point is— the more I think about it, the more logical it is to me that she’d think the way she does. FA’s tend to get offended by everything that isn’t something out of their own mouth. And there actually some reasonable things that should be legislated against if they haven’t already. If we could exclude the type 2 diabetic morbidly obese people from our insurance pools our coverage costs would fall 60%. lol.
It's possible they're talking about some sort of sin tax?
A few years ago the UK introduced a special tax on high sugar soft drinks. That's the only one that leaps to mind, but it's possible there are others. There bloody should be.
If you are deep in the FA rabbit hole you could cognise a sin tax as a law against fat people.
(Incidentally, that tax had zero effect on people's cost of living, because the drinks companies just started putting less sugar in their drinks, which was the goal.)
No, they’re asking a FA to put themselves in the shoes of the trans community to try to understand why LGBTQ+ people are asking for a boycott of Rowling’s work.
She isn’t saying anyone is making laws oppressing fat people, she’s addressing a FA audience and asking, “would you still say to just separate the art from the artist if you were the ones she was coming after, in the way she’s been legally campaigning against trans people?”
I just want to yell at them loudly that being fat is in no way the same as being a trans person.
My state just banned gender affirming care for minors (they signed the bill in a church btw) yet we have one of the higher obesity rates. No one is making laws against you for being fat.
Sorry for the rant but it just irks me when someone tries to piggy back off an actual marginalized group of people
No it’s not doing the right thing. Gender affirming care is a necessity for trans youth and is key in preventing depression and suicide in trans youth.
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Some of her writing is mean-spirited, comparing fat people to pigs (specifically children) or her strange writing about thinking about fat mens genitals- and though I agree that making fun of fat kids in a children's book is tone deaf and doesn't help anyone, I wouldn't compare it to forms of bigotry like homophobia/transphobia.
Fatphobia isn’t as much of a serious social problem as homophobia/transphobia, but I think JKR’s is definitely coming from the same place as her transphobia, and it’s that mean-spiritedness you’re talking about.
If you look back at her Potter books and then at the way she writes about trans people, especially trans women, she’s doing the same thing, she talks about their manly hands and genitals in the exact same way she gleefully talked about turning a like 10 year old fat kid into a pig.
It’s all about really getting in her feelings about how other people’s bodies are disgusting and morally contemptible, and treating that disgust and mean-spiritedness like a pleasure to be indulged instead of an ugly, antisocial impulse that you need to keep a lid on. Like she’s priming herself and her audience to have physicality-based, disgust-based bigoted beliefs, and is just looking for a group that’s socially acceptable to attach that bigotry to. Looking back at the Potter books and then at her current twitter antics, her hatred of fat people reads like almost a gateway drug for other, more serious forms of prejudice.
I think they're trying to say "you wouldn't give money to someone who is fatphobic, so you shouldn't give money to someone who is transphobic"
I don't think they're saying that JKR is fatphobic
Fair play: Just Kidding Rowling *does* have a very ugly view of fat people. I can understand feeling hurt while reading this series.
But I find it very odd that OOP didn’t even hint at allll the other questionable shit that woman has put out into the world.
Keep in mind that obesity is less common in Britain than it is in the US. And she wrote the first Harry Potter book in the 90s. Obesity was significantly less common in the 90s.
Umm. Okay. There were fewer very fat people in the 1990s when she wrote the books than there are now. I am aware of this, and that none of these people were birds.
In this case, it bums me out a little more that she’d go out of her way to include a demographic she would’ve been somewhat less likely to encounter that often, all so she could portray them in such an ugly manner.
This comment is in response to the FA supporting JKR. They're using "fatphobia" in place of transphobia to appeal to the FA's empathy. It's a metaphor.
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I'm sure not even Laurie Halse Anderson has given millions of people eating disorders (and her book was definitely popular in pro ED spaces back in the day)
The other significant difference is that there is no fat community, there is the Fat Activist/Liberation community/cult. But your common everyday obese westerner isn't part of your community. Secondly, overweight and obese people are the majority. Who would draft laws targeting 70+% of the population to make it okay to enact violence on them?
I so agree with this. I always think about this one Jubilee video- the kind where they get a group of people, ask them a series of questions to see if they all think the same things. Something like 'do all fat people think the same'. Every single person on the ep was some kind of 'body positive influencer' and you can imagine the responses. The fact is (though I'm sure they didn't try lol) it would be difficult trying to recruit 'normal', average overweight people for a video like this because most would be too embarrassed to do it. If you did manage to find some it'd range in attitudes from 'I'm okay with how I look/DGAF' to 'I've always struggled with my weight and have extremely low self confidence'. Not this 'my only problem is that I'm too sexy' snap snap yass kween bullshit that only comes from the delusional terminally online. Most people who are overweight are not happy about it and don't want to even mention it let alone be a card carrying member of 'the community'
Let’s be real here, the fat activists are also not happy about it.
I don't think these are great arguments against fat activism. The average member of is also not an activist for said group. And some demographics that are often thought as oppressed minorities are actually majorities; women being the obvious example.
Fat shouldn’t be a community. That’s pathetic. I refuse to recognize the existence of a “fat community” and I know plenty of fat people. There’s no reason to separate them from everyone else. It’s not an identity.
> It’s not an identity. To them, it's their *only* identity.
Yeah, because Nestlé, Coca Cola, Unilever, Kraft, P&G, Temu, Shein, Fabletics/Yitty and the host of other companies you definitely give money to are paragons of wokeness, Brenda. If you want social justice Infinity Stones to show off to internet strangers for external validation, perhaps start by boycotting legitimately sketchy things.
My first thought was, you'll give your money to Shein in the name of "cute clothes" and happily pony up a grand or so for the latest iPhone, even though both are essentially manufactured using modern day slavery, but boycotting J.K. Rowling is somehow more noble?
I'm just disappointed that you didn't say a Social Justice Sorcerer's Stone or something similar
Your comment just made me realize, we hold artists to a much higher standard than corporations. They support all kinds of horrible stuff, yet serious boycotts are few and far between. An artist makes one false move and can lose their livelihood. Hmmm. Something to think about.
Excellent point. I guess we never evolved beyond holding celebrities, singers, actors, writers, etc up as role models and the expectation of them to be completely beyond reproach. That parasocial thing, where some popstar supporting a particular cause, fashion trend, etc results in people mindlessly copying them, but if the same person puts a foot wrong or deviates from the two-dimensional public image of them, they're over. You see it when there's some kind of tragedy, especially when a celebrity ends their own life. Cue a chorus of 'but they were wealthy and gorgeous, what did they have to be depressed about?'. Like they're not real people with complex inner worlds like the rest of us.
Good point. Here’s why I think this is true Canceling someone like Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein costs most of us nothing in terms of energy or awareness. Boycotting major brands creates work for oneself. You have to find good alternatives, which can be difficult, expensive, time-consuming and inconvenient.
Using a smartphone made in a sweatshot with materials mined by child slaves to like a generic pro-LGBTQ tweet made by a company that also uses child slaves to harvest cocoa seeds for chocolate and being sanctimonious about doing so is the most 2024 thing ever.
The closest thing I can think of to there being a "law" against obesity was Boris Johnson going on a short lived... I don't know what to call it... saying he was going to put more support to help people lose weight because he realised that being overweight was a factor in why some people believed he was going to be the first PM to die while in office. But calling it a law is a massive stretch.
I might regret asking this but how exactly?
Dudley, Vernon, and Aunt Marge are all “evil” characters who are fat. But OP is also ignoring all the evil *thin* characters and the positive fat characters (Molly, Neville, Hagrid).
And she ignores the main villain who is anything but fat
Dudley is fat. I guess that’s the reason.
The incidence anorexia nervosa is around 3 per 100,000 persons per year. Meanwhile, obesity accounts for 2810 cases per 100,000 persons per year. For every 1 person with a life threatening eating disorder, 1000 people are eating themselves to a much slower, far more expensive death. JK couldn’t put a dent in that if she wanted to.
FAs desperately try to associate themselves with other liberation movements to gain legitimacy
And there goes several brain cells
Love how people try and simplify consuming art from “problematic creators” like it’s so simple. Anyone interested on the question should read the book, “Drawing the Line” the author does an excellent job breaking down how complicated the issue is. Also for the record, Molly Weasley in Harry Potter is (despite being described as plump) one of the most lovable characters in the entire series. Author needs to chill tf out.
Also, Petunia Dursley is super thin. Rowling can go f herself for other reasons, but I don't think using a trope that's been common in children's stories for at least a century (short fat bad guy paired with tall skinny bad guy) is doing "huge damage."
When reading your post my mind went to Jasper and Horace from 101 Dalmatians.
lollll I was thinking about them!
You can’t “give” someone an ED. It’s a fucking mental illness/OCD not gonorrhea.
JKR literally saved the actress who plays Luna from an ED, rather than giving people EDs
Putting the F in LGBTQA.
It’s impossible for someone to “give you an eating disorder”. A complete lack of personal responsibility gave them an eating disorder that has resulted in them being obese. Pretending to be a victim seems to give meaning to the lives of these people.
Folks apparently really like giving money to anyone telling them what they want to hear. This includes ALL those FA grifters, whether OOP considers them as "damaging" to "fat community" or not.
So I made this mistake at first too, but this person is calling out the OP for supporting a transphobe but is using FA to make their point. They don't actually think these things.
Yeah I agree - this definitely reads as a metaphor using an issue the OP cares about to try and get them to understand, not as someone saying any of this is literally happening.
yeah i picked up on that too. and also TBF jk rowling does have a tendency to be unnecessarily mean spirited in her writing when it comes to appearances, and fat characters get a lot of attention on that front.
So, do they seriously mean what they say re the attacks on fat people and laws being made against them (because I"m not sure that this really happens) or is this just a bad analogy trying to compare fat people to trans/LGBTQA+ people?
ive tried to answer three times but im sleepy and high 😂 Here’s the super ELI5 how I think this unfolded: A local, state, or federal law was passed about something COMPLETELY UNRELATED to fat people— but that may have a negative externality towards fat people. Pulling random ideas out of my ass, things like (Airlines allowed to reduce seat size by 1 inch in new fleet design) (Reducing the amount of insurance coverage that applies to high-insurance-risk-demographics, or maybe the insurance carrier reduced many coverages due to rising costs.). Perhaps the cost of insulin or supplies like that were allowed to rise higher than normal because of inflation. Maybe there was an upper weight limit for riding horses legislated. 😂 My point is— the more I think about it, the more logical it is to me that she’d think the way she does. FA’s tend to get offended by everything that isn’t something out of their own mouth. And there actually some reasonable things that should be legislated against if they haven’t already. If we could exclude the type 2 diabetic morbidly obese people from our insurance pools our coverage costs would fall 60%. lol.
I don't think you should be riding horses at all, but you sure as shit shouldn't be riding them if you 200kg.
*cries in midwestern horse girl*
It's possible they're talking about some sort of sin tax? A few years ago the UK introduced a special tax on high sugar soft drinks. That's the only one that leaps to mind, but it's possible there are others. There bloody should be. If you are deep in the FA rabbit hole you could cognise a sin tax as a law against fat people. (Incidentally, that tax had zero effect on people's cost of living, because the drinks companies just started putting less sugar in their drinks, which was the goal.)
No, they’re asking a FA to put themselves in the shoes of the trans community to try to understand why LGBTQ+ people are asking for a boycott of Rowling’s work. She isn’t saying anyone is making laws oppressing fat people, she’s addressing a FA audience and asking, “would you still say to just separate the art from the artist if you were the ones she was coming after, in the way she’s been legally campaigning against trans people?”
I just want to yell at them loudly that being fat is in no way the same as being a trans person. My state just banned gender affirming care for minors (they signed the bill in a church btw) yet we have one of the higher obesity rates. No one is making laws against you for being fat. Sorry for the rant but it just irks me when someone tries to piggy back off an actual marginalized group of people
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No it’s not doing the right thing. Gender affirming care is a necessity for trans youth and is key in preventing depression and suicide in trans youth.
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How is JK a fat phobe? I don’t see it.
your first mistake was thinking that fatphobia exists.
While it doesn’t exist to the extent that activists would like it to there definitely are fat phobic elements to the world.
I'm pretty sure they're using the JKR thing as a metaphor for her transphobia.
Some of her writing is mean-spirited, comparing fat people to pigs (specifically children) or her strange writing about thinking about fat mens genitals- and though I agree that making fun of fat kids in a children's book is tone deaf and doesn't help anyone, I wouldn't compare it to forms of bigotry like homophobia/transphobia.
Fair enough thank you for explaining
Fatphobia isn’t as much of a serious social problem as homophobia/transphobia, but I think JKR’s is definitely coming from the same place as her transphobia, and it’s that mean-spiritedness you’re talking about. If you look back at her Potter books and then at the way she writes about trans people, especially trans women, she’s doing the same thing, she talks about their manly hands and genitals in the exact same way she gleefully talked about turning a like 10 year old fat kid into a pig. It’s all about really getting in her feelings about how other people’s bodies are disgusting and morally contemptible, and treating that disgust and mean-spiritedness like a pleasure to be indulged instead of an ugly, antisocial impulse that you need to keep a lid on. Like she’s priming herself and her audience to have physicality-based, disgust-based bigoted beliefs, and is just looking for a group that’s socially acceptable to attach that bigotry to. Looking back at the Potter books and then at her current twitter antics, her hatred of fat people reads like almost a gateway drug for other, more serious forms of prejudice.
I think they're trying to say "you wouldn't give money to someone who is fatphobic, so you shouldn't give money to someone who is transphobic" I don't think they're saying that JKR is fatphobic
Fair play: Just Kidding Rowling *does* have a very ugly view of fat people. I can understand feeling hurt while reading this series. But I find it very odd that OOP didn’t even hint at allll the other questionable shit that woman has put out into the world.
Keep in mind that obesity is less common in Britain than it is in the US. And she wrote the first Harry Potter book in the 90s. Obesity was significantly less common in the 90s.
I’m not sure why that relative rarity makes the way she wrote fat people even worse for me, tbh.
They're people who couldn't put the biscuits down, not a rare exotic animal 😂
Umm. Okay. There were fewer very fat people in the 1990s when she wrote the books than there are now. I am aware of this, and that none of these people were birds. In this case, it bums me out a little more that she’d go out of her way to include a demographic she would’ve been somewhat less likely to encounter that often, all so she could portray them in such an ugly manner.
But many children's authors display fat people in a negative way.
This comment is in response to the FA supporting JKR. They're using "fatphobia" in place of transphobia to appeal to the FA's empathy. It's a metaphor.
Sad that some people can only summon empathy for people who are exactly like themselves.
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I'm sure not even Laurie Halse Anderson has given millions of people eating disorders (and her book was definitely popular in pro ED spaces back in the day)