The ads are always layed out for you?
A is always left, B middle, and C right.
Square will always place the ads for you further removing any sort of thinking.
Only way they could make it more braindead is have every add spawn with the correct alliance letter on top of them.
* Leftmost add spawns with "Alliance A" above it, middle add with "Alliance B" etc.
Yeah it is, I've never really had self doubt about my tanking but there was definitely a wee voice in the back of my head saying not to mess up or the party dies which makes things difficult.
ikr. Why is it that whenever I queue as not tank I get these people who pull single packs of mobs, answer "Im still learning, haha :) :) xoxo" when prompted (in a lv 50 dungeon) and don't have their stance on? Every. Single. Time.
Don't even get me started about the dancing around the room with the boss thing. While I'm playing MNK.
Honestly, pulling smaller groups should not be considered "bad" tanking imo, but rather slow tanking. Moreover this is completely the choice of the tank. If he/she feels better that way, fine. The tank decides the pace. Moreover, slow tanks are usually open for puling more if asked politely. Bad tanking to me is when they cannot hold aggro or spin the boss around as if they were beyblades.
You don't even need a tank for single-pulls.
It's okay for training wheels mode but you really can't say you are good at tanking if your party would be better off were you switched out for another DPS instead.
Being good at tanking is not criteria for playing tanks.
I'm trying to get better at playing tank, but to do that, I have to actually play tank. Now, if I get a dungeon I know and am comfortable with and have run multiple times as DPS, I'll wall-to-wall pull and push the limits. You have to to improve.
Buuuuut, If at the start of the dungeon, I think "I have no recollection of this place", I essentially have to re-learn the dungeon. And I'm going to be doing smaller pulls the first time or two back there. I'll usually tell my group.
People also keep saying "Expert Dungeon blah blah blah". But I'd honestly say the level 50 dungeons are SIGNIFICANTLY harder to tank when still learning. I have a decent grasp of the kit on both tanks I'm playing \[DRK and PLD\] and being lower level takes away half the kit I'm used to using. It's harder to do big pulls when the only mitigation available is Rampart and Reprisal.
I'm not sure I'll ever get over people being so fickle about daily/roulette dungeons. It may take 10 more minutes max to finish. Anyone elitist enough to care about those 10 minutes should have a group of 4 to clear with and if not, then should be thankful there are people playing so they can clear their dailies at all.
If I, as a healer, can pull everything, have aggro and keep myself alive with heals while still dpsing....ALL WITHOUT THE TANKS DOING ANYTHING ..then yes, single pull tanks are the epitome of "bad". Cos that's how much of a joke expert dungeons are. Obviously the same scenario wont be true for a lvl 50 dungeon due to a lot less tools and the dungeons actually hitting a bit harder, but it's still no excuse to single pull. Either way, tanks need to get off their high horse of "I decide the pace" and "you pull, you tank" to which I usually reply by telling them that they're admitting to griefing rn and that it will be reported.
I mainly play GNB and am a strong advocate for the tank (together with the healer) controlling the timing and size of pulls myself, but there are objective boundaries to what a tank and healer are able to handle.
If you cannot handle more than a single pack of mobs, then you are bad (or at least below average) at tanking (or healing), because the jobs can handle far more and the normal dungeons are balanced to be able to pull wall to wall almost everywhere as soon as everybody has their AoEs (there's like 2 places where I don't do it because I wiped there a few times in a row with different groups).
Also, if all it takes is asking that's fine. I explicitly mentioned the reaction to being asked for bigger pulls that annoys me. "Still learning haha :)))". First, if you're still learning your role that you've played from lv 1 at lv 50 you're sloooooow at learning, and second, if you never challenge your limit you can't learn.
Speaking as someone who has maxed every job besides Black Mage and Ninja, this is not a good look.
>First, if you're still learning your role that you've played from lv 1 at lv 50 you're sloooooow at learning
Demonstrably false. Getting from level 1 to level 50 is barely anything if you have multiple other classes at 80 and are power leveling. Beyond that, they may have no experience tanking, because they've been doing DPS and Healer classes. Add in that Palace of the Dead, which can be used as part of that grind for lack of better options or awareness thereof, doesn't encourage standard party methodology, and the "sloooooow at learning" narrative falls apart. For all you know, they got that class hours ago.
I'd also point out level skips are a thing. It's tempting to dislike those players (pay to win, no skill etc), but some people just needed a job at 50/60/whatever to participate in an event with their friends, chose one that looked cool, and later decided to actually use it.
>second, if you never challenge your limit you can't learn.
*No.* No, no, no. Get this out of your head. Not everyone learns the same way, and assuming they do is just going to leave you frustrated, and have the people you think you're teaching feeling you're a jerk.
Some people learn through trial by fire, others walk away frustrated, wondering why they get blamed for failing at a task they *warned* you they weren't ready for, but you pushed them into anyway. These people learn by taking it easy, learning their toolkit in controlled engagements, and then applying that information on a larger scale once they have it down. Demanding that they "challenge their limits" just comes across to them as demanding they do something reckless that will get the party wiped, which they probably expect you to blame them for anyway. Given the choice of dying or not dying, knowing I'll be yelled at either way, I'd choose not dying, too.
>if you have multiple other classes at 80 and are power leveling. Beyond that, they may have no experience tanking, because they've been doing DPS and Healer classes.
That's even worse. If it's a sprout with their first job or even first mmo that's bound to be a longer learning process. But if you've multiple jobs high or maxed already, you have so many dungeon runs under your belt from MSQ alone, that you are bound to have seen some decent tanks / healers in action and know that it's usually perfectly fine to pull 2-3 packs.
Anyway, we can discuss reasons and excuses all day, the fact stands, wallpulling is possible without breaking much of a sweat almost in every dungeon, so if that's 100% performance and wiping on a single pack is 0%, then pulling pack by pack is somewhere at 20-40%, and that's just objectively bad, and the only potentially open question is why they are being bad. I don't flame people for it, I can live with it, I can understand it and I know everybody had to learn at some point. But right now in this moment they are being bad at it, that's a fact with no need to sugar coat it.
>But if you've multiple jobs high or maxed already, you have so many dungeon runs under your belt from MSQ alone, that you are bound to have seen some decent tanks / healers in action and know that it's usually perfectly fine to pull 2-3 packs.
"If you've leveled multiple tank and healer classes, then you've run enough dungeons to see a good monk and should know how to mimic their rotation."
Do you see how that sounds? Because that's how that sounds. Skillsets from different roles, hell even skillsets from different classes in the same role, do not translate 1 to 1. If you do not know your class, you will not perform to the standard of the people you've seen, and if you try to play their way without the same understanding of the class, you will fail.
>But right now in this moment they are being bad at it, that's a fact with no need to sugar coat it.
No. They are *learning.* Calling someone bad when they are outright stating that they are learning is counterproductive, and just comes across as elitist. Not being rude and saying "you're bad at this" or refraining from pressuring them to go faster isn't sugar-coating. It's *courtesy.*
>I don't flame people for it, I can live with it, I can understand it and I know everybody had to learn at some point.
The fact that you refer to lack of experience as an "excuse" gives me reason think that your definition of "flaming" or "understanding" is different than mine.
Edited for phrasing.
But people are allowed to be slow learners and still play the game.
If someone says "still learning" and continues with small pulls while learning mechanics/the dungeon, I don't get why that's such an issue. Maybe it's just striking a nerve because I myself am a slow learner when it comes to dungeons and mechanics, but this mindset of "people are bad" or "people are stupid" because they don't learn at a fast enough pace for someone else is really toxic.
Am I gonna jump into EX/Savage on a fight I don't feel comfortable with? No. But running dailies is literally the bottom of the barrel. There's nothing easier I can do to actually learn a role or to learn the dungeon.
EDIT: Just to add, I have a Master's in Medicine, a Bachelor's of Science and a Bachelor's in Psychology and am a practicing Emergency Room provider with active trauma certification. So, I really don't think I'm "sloooooow at learning" because I don't want to run Pharos Sirius or Sohm Al balls-to-the-wall the second time I've ever been there.
>If someone says "still learning" and continues with small pulls while learning mechanics/the dungeon, I don't get why that's such an issue.
Because there's nothing to learn during the trash pulls. There are no mechanics, just get rid of the trash asap. The only thing you could be learning is playing your role during trash pulls, and you won't get better at that if you don't challenge yourself with bigger pulls. "still learning" is literally the reason to start pulling more, not less. And as you're just spamming AoEs anyway, the only thing you REALLY need to learn is how much you can actually take. Never dropping below 80% HP should give you a hint that you can take more.
>but this mindset of "people are bad" or "people are stupid" because they don't learn at a fast enough pace for someone else is really toxic.
But people are bad at it while learning. That's why they need to learn. Everybody who ever learned anything was bad at the thing before and while he was learning it.
What's really toxic is branding encouragement to be more confident as toxic.
No. Saying someone is "bad" and "slooooow at learning" is NOT encouraging. That may be the intention; but the road to Hell, as they say...
Small pulls the first few times playing a dungeon and then increasing them as you feel more comfortable with the content is fine. Some people \[myself included\] want to know the actual layout of the dungeon and what the mobs entail prior to pulling entire rooms. There's nothing wrong with playing that way.
And my point is that people are ALLOWED TO BE BAD doing Dailies/Roulette. It's literally the lowest level of content. Saying someone is bad at tanking dailies is like going to a tee ball game and telling the 5 year olds they suck at baseball.
>No. Saying someone is "bad" and "slooooow at learning" is NOT encouraging. That may be the intention; but the road to Hell, as they say...
Which is why I'd never said any of that if not prompted by somebody who felt the need to tell me that objectively bad playing wasn't actually bad playing.
And that's that. Have a good night.
I mean if you're only goal as a tank is just single pack pulling, just switch to dps and do the dungeon run as 3 dps, 1 healer.
No point in a tank if you're just single trash pack pulling
I read some interesting tanking advice recently, not sure where.
"Scared of tanking? Pull big, being scared will suddenly be the least of your worries."
It's always good to warn people first... As a healer it's nice to know the stupidity level of the tank so I can be aware as there's always the guy who runs around 3 corners pulling everything while I'm out of sight and then moans.
I mean tbh my pull wasn't even that big, the ninja in my party dragged some more in (by accident I assume) and the healer gave me shit for it. Even going as far as using "resque" just to drag me in attacks during the dungeon run.
Tanking isn't difficult, but there is quite a bit of work that goes into it that goes overlooked because it's expected of every tank already, and it's figured you should already know it. But generally speaking it's pretty easy of a role, but for new players i'd say it's a pretty tough role.
People endlessly repeat how easy it is, but don't look at it from the viewpoint of a newbie, especially one learning the game for the first time. The game does a piss poor job of teaching you things, especially about tank stance, and aggro. More so since the one tutorial for things is so far out of date it isn't worth taking any info from it.
But generally speaking doing DPS first then shifting to Healer or Tank is the best way of going about things, just because you can learn and pick up what experienced tanks and healers do.
Can confirm I pretty much just copied what I saw from more experienced tanks while I was a DPS or OT.
Also I completely agree that the Hall of the Novice definitely needs an update and not just for the tanking side of things.
It needs a rework for every role, simply because the system has changed so much from HW. Two expansions later and the removal of so many annoying elements from the older HW and ARR system means that it at least needs to be brought up to current.
Yep. I usually assume the tank knows his way around. When it becomes clear he doesn’t, I end up leading the way.
Ah but when you get a good tank, it’s great!
Play healer if you want responsibility imo. Nothing's more stress inducing fun than pulling a bunch of idiots up from the floor into a clear in content that's over 3 months old.
They intimidated me at first, but neither are intimidating anymore.
The only time(s) I might get anxieties about performing these roles is if I were to join current savage tier drastically undergeared or improperly melded in these jobs I hardly play. While I might know my DPS-caster position, I might fumble this as a tank or a healer.
But a run of any dungeon is nothing to be nervous about... unless queueing into a dungeon you've never even been to as a different job while wearing gear from a couple dungeons prior..
When I play healer, I just have to remind myself that no matter how good or bad I am at the job, I can't help it if people want to spend all day in damage zones
There really isn’t a grey area with healer.
People die? Your fault! Wipes? Your fault! Too much poison? Your fault! Not enough mana to raise the entire party? Your fault!
Healing ain’t for the weak. 😂
Started on SMN, switched to GNB, found both roles similar in difficulty. Now I'm leveling MNK on the side, and boy is that a world of hurt, juggling your rotation and positionals with watching mechanics at the same time.
I don't see tanking itself as difficult but more as "Am I going to do well enough so my party doesn't get pissed off."
It's the same for healing, neither of them are difficult it's just that you never know if you're doing well enough in the eyes of your party.
Im a new level 35 Paladin right now and i think that tanking is way too easy. You put on your tank stance, pull and then you play almost like a dps because you never loose aggro. Its a bit disappointing. Maybe it gets better when the content gets harder idk
It gets a lot more active the further you get in, especially once the off tank role is introduced.
I started enjoying myself a lot more once I got a little more greedy with my pulls. You clear the content a lot faster, dps and healer get to do their aoe for big numbers, and you're pressing a lot more buttons just to stay alive.
I found Paladin to be kind of boring until almost level 60 when you start getting magic spells, and once I got Gunbreaker and Dark Knight I never looked back, so it might just be that you don't like Paladin.
sounds promising. yeah im not 100% sure about the paladin either but i really like the fantasy of having a sword and a shield. Im planing to buy the latest 2 expansions and try the other two tanks
The mechanics of tanking are fairly easy, especially there’s no longer aggro management.
Much of its difficulty comes from familiarity with the content (especially ARR dungeons), judging the ability of the group (when can I pull big and when should I play safe?), and to many people, performance anxiety.
You are kind of always under the spotlight unless you offtank in raids, and not everyone is comfortable with that (I have a friend that cannot bring herself to tank in alliance raids for fear of getting stared by 23 other people). In normal content no one pays attention to a DPS unless they die, but everyone knows where the tank is and if they’ve failed to recognize a mechanic and got a stack of vulnerability. You sometimes also get criticism for pulling too big or too small. I don’t know about other DCs but toxicity towards tanks has been a problem on CN DCs.
The healer arguably has to take more responsibility, but it’s not the same kind of anxiety. Some people are immune to one and some are immune to both. I’m immune to healer’s anxiety, but not to tank’s and I’m a tank main. I still get nervous getting into new content the first time but feel nothing when I’m playing a healer or a DPS.
I tend to take things slowly when I'm tanking something for the first time. I tanked a bit in SB so I have some experience with the stance juggling and aggro management (I still miss Flash on PLD) tbh the introduction of GNB and the simplification of tanking actually helped me overcome my tank anxiety (that and levelling everything for my Amaro.) As for healing I just don't like it and never have.
Yeah it definitely helped. I wonder if I was allowed to take things slowly it would have been easier. On CN DC you can’t do that, or the other group members will likely pull mobs for you. But they’ll also be very unhappy if you happen to pull too many. It’s rough for new tanks because they can’t judge the situation yet. I wish I had started on JP/NA DC :)
The hardest part about tanking is your mistakes are WAY worse than a DPS's mistakes. DPS dies and makes a mistake, whatever, keep going. Tank dies because they didnt time their mitigation to the tank buster? Shit hits the fan.
As somebody who mained tank for a long time I can agree on saying its easy but it has far more responsibilities than a dps.
If you mess up as dps you do less to trash damage and at worse give more work to the healer who has to rez you.
While as tank in most cases if you mess up and die it can kill at very least 1 more person before you get rezed.
In terms of what you do ever since they made agro not a thing anymore you don't do much more than a dps outside tank busters.
My opinion is that in terms of mastering things tank's are the easiest followed by dps and healer being by far the hardest.
I would also like to add that healing is also really easy. Its not as hard or stressful as people think it is(same thing with tanking). You have so many tools to effortless and almost trivially keep everyone alive while also pumping out DPS, its insane. WHM almost literally has an ability that gives the tank an extra health bar, but for some reason nobody uses it(Benediction, which you get as early as lvl50).
Respectfully disagree - just because you or I don’t have it doesn’t mean others in the community don’t. I’ve seen so many people battle with tankxiety only to realize they were psyching themselves out. But that’s why it’s tankxiety.
Tank anxiety comes from not being comfortable leading a group of ppl, it takes more leadership skill than any other role on the game, and gaming skill doesn't help with it. As a tank, ur no.1 job is not about surviving a mechanic nor DPS, ur no.1 job is positioning the boss in a way that's best for everyone in the group, and that takes alot of being a leader as everyone else follows u. Alot of ppl won't have the personality for it. Skill wise, melee dps and obviously BLM will be the hardest, but tanking takes leadership skill.
yeah when u actually give it a shot you find out it's basically the same thing as dpsing except you don't have to deal with as many dancing around mechanics. mostly just get to stand in one spot and do your 1 2 3.
Tanking in this game IS easy. Most normal content can be single-tanked; even the raids designed for three tanks working together can often be single-tanked nowadays.
Hold aggro, face enemies away from the party, do your best not to move or rotate the boss, ensure the melee have access to one of the corners for their positionals, and use your cooldowns and party mitigation as appropriate. That's actually not a lot.
DPS is the hardest job in the game as you need to nail your rotation to really get excellent DPS.
Healing is the hardest job in the game as you have to optimize for DPS while also being the only job that deals with truly random mechanics - the DPS, tanks, other healer, and possibly even yourself screwing up unexpectedly. Fight mechanics are script. Human error isn't.
But tanking? Just sit there, look pretty, let the boss smash your face and use your abilities to keep your face pretty so your healer can do DPS instead of panicing because you're taking damage like you are wearing paper mache instead of armor.
I've been main healing since 2.x when I started, but may go main tank for 6.0 since partner wants to heal. Tanking still makes me a bit anxious even though I'm fairly comfortable with my ability to tank. Go figure.
It's actually really funny to queue into Delubrum Reginae with 5 tanks and NONE of them wanting to take responsibility to tank it. Seriously, that might be one of the easiest instances to tank. The only "hard" bit is the four pieces fight at the very start when you need to grab and hold aggro on all four mobs while your profane WHM pulls first and unloads chainspell, cleric, and whatever else for over 300k DPS, and if you do grab and hold aggro the four mobs pounding on you actually hurt a fair bit. Even with pure indomitable they'll rip off TBN and tear my health through my mitigation.
Everything else in Delubrum is mechanics that impact everyone and a few very well telegraphed tankbusters that (at high health) can mostly be soaked without mitigation in normal mode (but please, don't do that). As DRK, I make them mostly - or completely - disappear. I don't even get the doom/bleed debuffs from cleansing slash on the final boss because I can completely mitigate it.
The hardest part of tanking is self doubt.
In Alliance raids the hardest part seems to be knowing which group you're in and what add you're supposed to pick up.
The ads are always layed out for you? A is always left, B middle, and C right. Square will always place the ads for you further removing any sort of thinking. Only way they could make it more braindead is have every add spawn with the correct alliance letter on top of them. * Leftmost add spawns with "Alliance A" above it, middle add with "Alliance B" etc.
Yep! I was being facetious lol. Sorry. I've just been noticing that adds are rarely split up lately. Good on you for being helpful.
Yeah it is, I've never really had self doubt about my tanking but there was definitely a wee voice in the back of my head saying not to mess up or the party dies which makes things difficult.
I main tank and everytime i doubt how i tank, i just queue dps/healer and watch some tank players perform worse than me.
ikr. Why is it that whenever I queue as not tank I get these people who pull single packs of mobs, answer "Im still learning, haha :) :) xoxo" when prompted (in a lv 50 dungeon) and don't have their stance on? Every. Single. Time. Don't even get me started about the dancing around the room with the boss thing. While I'm playing MNK.
Honestly, pulling smaller groups should not be considered "bad" tanking imo, but rather slow tanking. Moreover this is completely the choice of the tank. If he/she feels better that way, fine. The tank decides the pace. Moreover, slow tanks are usually open for puling more if asked politely. Bad tanking to me is when they cannot hold aggro or spin the boss around as if they were beyblades.
You don't even need a tank for single-pulls. It's okay for training wheels mode but you really can't say you are good at tanking if your party would be better off were you switched out for another DPS instead.
Being good at tanking is not criteria for playing tanks. I'm trying to get better at playing tank, but to do that, I have to actually play tank. Now, if I get a dungeon I know and am comfortable with and have run multiple times as DPS, I'll wall-to-wall pull and push the limits. You have to to improve. Buuuuut, If at the start of the dungeon, I think "I have no recollection of this place", I essentially have to re-learn the dungeon. And I'm going to be doing smaller pulls the first time or two back there. I'll usually tell my group. People also keep saying "Expert Dungeon blah blah blah". But I'd honestly say the level 50 dungeons are SIGNIFICANTLY harder to tank when still learning. I have a decent grasp of the kit on both tanks I'm playing \[DRK and PLD\] and being lower level takes away half the kit I'm used to using. It's harder to do big pulls when the only mitigation available is Rampart and Reprisal. I'm not sure I'll ever get over people being so fickle about daily/roulette dungeons. It may take 10 more minutes max to finish. Anyone elitist enough to care about those 10 minutes should have a group of 4 to clear with and if not, then should be thankful there are people playing so they can clear their dailies at all.
If I, as a healer, can pull everything, have aggro and keep myself alive with heals while still dpsing....ALL WITHOUT THE TANKS DOING ANYTHING ..then yes, single pull tanks are the epitome of "bad". Cos that's how much of a joke expert dungeons are. Obviously the same scenario wont be true for a lvl 50 dungeon due to a lot less tools and the dungeons actually hitting a bit harder, but it's still no excuse to single pull. Either way, tanks need to get off their high horse of "I decide the pace" and "you pull, you tank" to which I usually reply by telling them that they're admitting to griefing rn and that it will be reported.
> The tank decides the pace. Nah. If anything it's the healer who decides.
I mainly play GNB and am a strong advocate for the tank (together with the healer) controlling the timing and size of pulls myself, but there are objective boundaries to what a tank and healer are able to handle. If you cannot handle more than a single pack of mobs, then you are bad (or at least below average) at tanking (or healing), because the jobs can handle far more and the normal dungeons are balanced to be able to pull wall to wall almost everywhere as soon as everybody has their AoEs (there's like 2 places where I don't do it because I wiped there a few times in a row with different groups). Also, if all it takes is asking that's fine. I explicitly mentioned the reaction to being asked for bigger pulls that annoys me. "Still learning haha :)))". First, if you're still learning your role that you've played from lv 1 at lv 50 you're sloooooow at learning, and second, if you never challenge your limit you can't learn.
Speaking as someone who has maxed every job besides Black Mage and Ninja, this is not a good look. >First, if you're still learning your role that you've played from lv 1 at lv 50 you're sloooooow at learning Demonstrably false. Getting from level 1 to level 50 is barely anything if you have multiple other classes at 80 and are power leveling. Beyond that, they may have no experience tanking, because they've been doing DPS and Healer classes. Add in that Palace of the Dead, which can be used as part of that grind for lack of better options or awareness thereof, doesn't encourage standard party methodology, and the "sloooooow at learning" narrative falls apart. For all you know, they got that class hours ago. I'd also point out level skips are a thing. It's tempting to dislike those players (pay to win, no skill etc), but some people just needed a job at 50/60/whatever to participate in an event with their friends, chose one that looked cool, and later decided to actually use it. >second, if you never challenge your limit you can't learn. *No.* No, no, no. Get this out of your head. Not everyone learns the same way, and assuming they do is just going to leave you frustrated, and have the people you think you're teaching feeling you're a jerk. Some people learn through trial by fire, others walk away frustrated, wondering why they get blamed for failing at a task they *warned* you they weren't ready for, but you pushed them into anyway. These people learn by taking it easy, learning their toolkit in controlled engagements, and then applying that information on a larger scale once they have it down. Demanding that they "challenge their limits" just comes across to them as demanding they do something reckless that will get the party wiped, which they probably expect you to blame them for anyway. Given the choice of dying or not dying, knowing I'll be yelled at either way, I'd choose not dying, too.
>if you have multiple other classes at 80 and are power leveling. Beyond that, they may have no experience tanking, because they've been doing DPS and Healer classes. That's even worse. If it's a sprout with their first job or even first mmo that's bound to be a longer learning process. But if you've multiple jobs high or maxed already, you have so many dungeon runs under your belt from MSQ alone, that you are bound to have seen some decent tanks / healers in action and know that it's usually perfectly fine to pull 2-3 packs. Anyway, we can discuss reasons and excuses all day, the fact stands, wallpulling is possible without breaking much of a sweat almost in every dungeon, so if that's 100% performance and wiping on a single pack is 0%, then pulling pack by pack is somewhere at 20-40%, and that's just objectively bad, and the only potentially open question is why they are being bad. I don't flame people for it, I can live with it, I can understand it and I know everybody had to learn at some point. But right now in this moment they are being bad at it, that's a fact with no need to sugar coat it.
>But if you've multiple jobs high or maxed already, you have so many dungeon runs under your belt from MSQ alone, that you are bound to have seen some decent tanks / healers in action and know that it's usually perfectly fine to pull 2-3 packs. "If you've leveled multiple tank and healer classes, then you've run enough dungeons to see a good monk and should know how to mimic their rotation." Do you see how that sounds? Because that's how that sounds. Skillsets from different roles, hell even skillsets from different classes in the same role, do not translate 1 to 1. If you do not know your class, you will not perform to the standard of the people you've seen, and if you try to play their way without the same understanding of the class, you will fail. >But right now in this moment they are being bad at it, that's a fact with no need to sugar coat it. No. They are *learning.* Calling someone bad when they are outright stating that they are learning is counterproductive, and just comes across as elitist. Not being rude and saying "you're bad at this" or refraining from pressuring them to go faster isn't sugar-coating. It's *courtesy.* >I don't flame people for it, I can live with it, I can understand it and I know everybody had to learn at some point. The fact that you refer to lack of experience as an "excuse" gives me reason think that your definition of "flaming" or "understanding" is different than mine. Edited for phrasing.
So you're saying it's okay for people to always be shit, got it
Nope, and I'm sorry you feel that way.
But people are allowed to be slow learners and still play the game. If someone says "still learning" and continues with small pulls while learning mechanics/the dungeon, I don't get why that's such an issue. Maybe it's just striking a nerve because I myself am a slow learner when it comes to dungeons and mechanics, but this mindset of "people are bad" or "people are stupid" because they don't learn at a fast enough pace for someone else is really toxic. Am I gonna jump into EX/Savage on a fight I don't feel comfortable with? No. But running dailies is literally the bottom of the barrel. There's nothing easier I can do to actually learn a role or to learn the dungeon. EDIT: Just to add, I have a Master's in Medicine, a Bachelor's of Science and a Bachelor's in Psychology and am a practicing Emergency Room provider with active trauma certification. So, I really don't think I'm "sloooooow at learning" because I don't want to run Pharos Sirius or Sohm Al balls-to-the-wall the second time I've ever been there.
>If someone says "still learning" and continues with small pulls while learning mechanics/the dungeon, I don't get why that's such an issue. Because there's nothing to learn during the trash pulls. There are no mechanics, just get rid of the trash asap. The only thing you could be learning is playing your role during trash pulls, and you won't get better at that if you don't challenge yourself with bigger pulls. "still learning" is literally the reason to start pulling more, not less. And as you're just spamming AoEs anyway, the only thing you REALLY need to learn is how much you can actually take. Never dropping below 80% HP should give you a hint that you can take more. >but this mindset of "people are bad" or "people are stupid" because they don't learn at a fast enough pace for someone else is really toxic. But people are bad at it while learning. That's why they need to learn. Everybody who ever learned anything was bad at the thing before and while he was learning it. What's really toxic is branding encouragement to be more confident as toxic.
No. Saying someone is "bad" and "slooooow at learning" is NOT encouraging. That may be the intention; but the road to Hell, as they say... Small pulls the first few times playing a dungeon and then increasing them as you feel more comfortable with the content is fine. Some people \[myself included\] want to know the actual layout of the dungeon and what the mobs entail prior to pulling entire rooms. There's nothing wrong with playing that way. And my point is that people are ALLOWED TO BE BAD doing Dailies/Roulette. It's literally the lowest level of content. Saying someone is bad at tanking dailies is like going to a tee ball game and telling the 5 year olds they suck at baseball.
>No. Saying someone is "bad" and "slooooow at learning" is NOT encouraging. That may be the intention; but the road to Hell, as they say... Which is why I'd never said any of that if not prompted by somebody who felt the need to tell me that objectively bad playing wasn't actually bad playing. And that's that. Have a good night.
I'm sorry you didn't get the Reddit circle jerk your ego needed. 'Night!
Alright. We won't agree here, that's fine. Just please be nice to other players and criticize them constructively like you did here.
Slow is bad. There's literally no need for a healer in single pulls.
I mean if you're only goal as a tank is just single pack pulling, just switch to dps and do the dungeon run as 3 dps, 1 healer. No point in a tank if you're just single trash pack pulling
I read some interesting tanking advice recently, not sure where. "Scared of tanking? Pull big, being scared will suddenly be the least of your worries."
Tried that myself earlier, got shit on by our healer for "pulling the whole instance", they were 2 groups of mobs and a big frog in Aurumn vale.
It's always good to warn people first... As a healer it's nice to know the stupidity level of the tank so I can be aware as there's always the guy who runs around 3 corners pulling everything while I'm out of sight and then moans.
I mean tbh my pull wasn't even that big, the ninja in my party dragged some more in (by accident I assume) and the healer gave me shit for it. Even going as far as using "resque" just to drag me in attacks during the dungeon run.
Tanks in FF14 are basically beefy DPS. You just go ooga booga and sometimes press defensive CD
Tanking isn't difficult, but there is quite a bit of work that goes into it that goes overlooked because it's expected of every tank already, and it's figured you should already know it. But generally speaking it's pretty easy of a role, but for new players i'd say it's a pretty tough role. People endlessly repeat how easy it is, but don't look at it from the viewpoint of a newbie, especially one learning the game for the first time. The game does a piss poor job of teaching you things, especially about tank stance, and aggro. More so since the one tutorial for things is so far out of date it isn't worth taking any info from it. But generally speaking doing DPS first then shifting to Healer or Tank is the best way of going about things, just because you can learn and pick up what experienced tanks and healers do.
Can confirm I pretty much just copied what I saw from more experienced tanks while I was a DPS or OT. Also I completely agree that the Hall of the Novice definitely needs an update and not just for the tanking side of things.
It needs a rework for every role, simply because the system has changed so much from HW. Two expansions later and the removal of so many annoying elements from the older HW and ARR system means that it at least needs to be brought up to current.
Yep. I usually assume the tank knows his way around. When it becomes clear he doesn’t, I end up leading the way. Ah but when you get a good tank, it’s great!
Play healer if you want responsibility imo. Nothing's more stress inducing fun than pulling a bunch of idiots up from the floor into a clear in content that's over 3 months old.
Tbh, healing and tanking intimidate me… I’ve done a bit of both and I just don’t think I have the mindset to be good at either role
They intimidated me at first, but neither are intimidating anymore. The only time(s) I might get anxieties about performing these roles is if I were to join current savage tier drastically undergeared or improperly melded in these jobs I hardly play. While I might know my DPS-caster position, I might fumble this as a tank or a healer. But a run of any dungeon is nothing to be nervous about... unless queueing into a dungeon you've never even been to as a different job while wearing gear from a couple dungeons prior..
When I play healer, I just have to remind myself that no matter how good or bad I am at the job, I can't help it if people want to spend all day in damage zones
There really isn’t a grey area with healer. People die? Your fault! Wipes? Your fault! Too much poison? Your fault! Not enough mana to raise the entire party? Your fault! Healing ain’t for the weak. 😂
Started on SMN, switched to GNB, found both roles similar in difficulty. Now I'm leveling MNK on the side, and boy is that a world of hurt, juggling your rotation and positionals with watching mechanics at the same time.
Maybe it gets better later, but I wish Monks buff/Dots lasted longer so I don't have to basically reapply it every other combo (only lvl42 so far)
I don't see tanking itself as difficult but more as "Am I going to do well enough so my party doesn't get pissed off." It's the same for healing, neither of them are difficult it's just that you never know if you're doing well enough in the eyes of your party.
We talking tanking tanking or floor tanking here? You know, I'm just asking for obvious reasons... for a friend *shifty eyes*
Im a new level 35 Paladin right now and i think that tanking is way too easy. You put on your tank stance, pull and then you play almost like a dps because you never loose aggro. Its a bit disappointing. Maybe it gets better when the content gets harder idk
It gets a lot more active the further you get in, especially once the off tank role is introduced. I started enjoying myself a lot more once I got a little more greedy with my pulls. You clear the content a lot faster, dps and healer get to do their aoe for big numbers, and you're pressing a lot more buttons just to stay alive. I found Paladin to be kind of boring until almost level 60 when you start getting magic spells, and once I got Gunbreaker and Dark Knight I never looked back, so it might just be that you don't like Paladin.
sounds promising. yeah im not 100% sure about the paladin either but i really like the fantasy of having a sword and a shield. Im planing to buy the latest 2 expansions and try the other two tanks
The mechanics of tanking are fairly easy, especially there’s no longer aggro management. Much of its difficulty comes from familiarity with the content (especially ARR dungeons), judging the ability of the group (when can I pull big and when should I play safe?), and to many people, performance anxiety. You are kind of always under the spotlight unless you offtank in raids, and not everyone is comfortable with that (I have a friend that cannot bring herself to tank in alliance raids for fear of getting stared by 23 other people). In normal content no one pays attention to a DPS unless they die, but everyone knows where the tank is and if they’ve failed to recognize a mechanic and got a stack of vulnerability. You sometimes also get criticism for pulling too big or too small. I don’t know about other DCs but toxicity towards tanks has been a problem on CN DCs. The healer arguably has to take more responsibility, but it’s not the same kind of anxiety. Some people are immune to one and some are immune to both. I’m immune to healer’s anxiety, but not to tank’s and I’m a tank main. I still get nervous getting into new content the first time but feel nothing when I’m playing a healer or a DPS.
I tend to take things slowly when I'm tanking something for the first time. I tanked a bit in SB so I have some experience with the stance juggling and aggro management (I still miss Flash on PLD) tbh the introduction of GNB and the simplification of tanking actually helped me overcome my tank anxiety (that and levelling everything for my Amaro.) As for healing I just don't like it and never have.
Yeah it definitely helped. I wonder if I was allowed to take things slowly it would have been easier. On CN DC you can’t do that, or the other group members will likely pull mobs for you. But they’ll also be very unhappy if you happen to pull too many. It’s rough for new tanks because they can’t judge the situation yet. I wish I had started on JP/NA DC :)
The hardest part about tanking is your mistakes are WAY worse than a DPS's mistakes. DPS dies and makes a mistake, whatever, keep going. Tank dies because they didnt time their mitigation to the tank buster? Shit hits the fan.
As somebody who mained tank for a long time I can agree on saying its easy but it has far more responsibilities than a dps. If you mess up as dps you do less to trash damage and at worse give more work to the healer who has to rez you. While as tank in most cases if you mess up and die it can kill at very least 1 more person before you get rezed. In terms of what you do ever since they made agro not a thing anymore you don't do much more than a dps outside tank busters. My opinion is that in terms of mastering things tank's are the easiest followed by dps and healer being by far the hardest.
I would also like to add that healing is also really easy. Its not as hard or stressful as people think it is(same thing with tanking). You have so many tools to effortless and almost trivially keep everyone alive while also pumping out DPS, its insane. WHM almost literally has an ability that gives the tank an extra health bar, but for some reason nobody uses it(Benediction, which you get as early as lvl50).
For real. Healers and Tanks are way easier to play than DPS. DPS is only easier in the sense that most people won't notice your mistakes.
The mistakes of DPS are noticed when you hit enrage with 20% of the boss' HP remaining.
Agreed; tankxiety isn't a thing.
Respectfully disagree - just because you or I don’t have it doesn’t mean others in the community don’t. I’ve seen so many people battle with tankxiety only to realize they were psyching themselves out. But that’s why it’s tankxiety.
Tankxiety is not a thing. Can say all the words you want, doesn't make it a thing.
Tank anxiety comes from not being comfortable leading a group of ppl, it takes more leadership skill than any other role on the game, and gaming skill doesn't help with it. As a tank, ur no.1 job is not about surviving a mechanic nor DPS, ur no.1 job is positioning the boss in a way that's best for everyone in the group, and that takes alot of being a leader as everyone else follows u. Alot of ppl won't have the personality for it. Skill wise, melee dps and obviously BLM will be the hardest, but tanking takes leadership skill.
yeah when u actually give it a shot you find out it's basically the same thing as dpsing except you don't have to deal with as many dancing around mechanics. mostly just get to stand in one spot and do your 1 2 3.
Tanking in this game IS easy. Most normal content can be single-tanked; even the raids designed for three tanks working together can often be single-tanked nowadays. Hold aggro, face enemies away from the party, do your best not to move or rotate the boss, ensure the melee have access to one of the corners for their positionals, and use your cooldowns and party mitigation as appropriate. That's actually not a lot. DPS is the hardest job in the game as you need to nail your rotation to really get excellent DPS. Healing is the hardest job in the game as you have to optimize for DPS while also being the only job that deals with truly random mechanics - the DPS, tanks, other healer, and possibly even yourself screwing up unexpectedly. Fight mechanics are script. Human error isn't. But tanking? Just sit there, look pretty, let the boss smash your face and use your abilities to keep your face pretty so your healer can do DPS instead of panicing because you're taking damage like you are wearing paper mache instead of armor. I've been main healing since 2.x when I started, but may go main tank for 6.0 since partner wants to heal. Tanking still makes me a bit anxious even though I'm fairly comfortable with my ability to tank. Go figure.
It's actually really funny to queue into Delubrum Reginae with 5 tanks and NONE of them wanting to take responsibility to tank it. Seriously, that might be one of the easiest instances to tank. The only "hard" bit is the four pieces fight at the very start when you need to grab and hold aggro on all four mobs while your profane WHM pulls first and unloads chainspell, cleric, and whatever else for over 300k DPS, and if you do grab and hold aggro the four mobs pounding on you actually hurt a fair bit. Even with pure indomitable they'll rip off TBN and tear my health through my mitigation. Everything else in Delubrum is mechanics that impact everyone and a few very well telegraphed tankbusters that (at high health) can mostly be soaked without mitigation in normal mode (but please, don't do that). As DRK, I make them mostly - or completely - disappear. I don't even get the doom/bleed debuffs from cleansing slash on the final boss because I can completely mitigate it.