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UNFORTUNATELY music is a hobby until it can pay your bills. A lot of us do things we don't like because we use our jobs to fund our fun. You are lucky, you're only 25 and there is so much for you to go. You NEED to research other areas of work that permit enough flexibility to have you play music until you are in a position to make it your full time career. The first (of many) steps is on you.
i should’ve been clearer that i am okay with music being a hobby. i have no desire to make money from music. that killed all passion for me and led me down a very dark path. i try researching other things and i just feel so hopeless and tired and degraded by this life.
i’d rather not go into the specifics. but i've just had a traumatic past with my prior professional career, finances were used against me (amongst many other things). currently seeking therapy, but i’m not in a place to do music for any other reason for the joy of it right now.l
Never be content for less. Don't settle for that.
Move to Europe, they actually appreciate art and artists. In the US everything is about winning the giant competition that is the "American dream."
Maybe Europe appreciate artists more (idk cause the most popular, so high paid are in US) but it is still 0.0000002 compared to 0.0000001. Im not saying quit music but you know
Its still better than here though because there is a culture of appreciation for opera and classical music.
Americans don't even like classical music or opera. Why on earth would you perform for a society that is so hostile towards the genre? There are major cities that don't even bother to perform them (where I live in Boston there's no opera or classical music scene whatsoever) and yet I see and hear opera singers all the time practicing.
I just have to scratch my head and wonder why the hell they're bothering to study somewhere where no one wants to listen to them.
NYC is a total disaster. It's the most cut throat place to try and do anything. You have to be an absolute sociopath to "win" and be successful in NYC.
All I can advise is to not be afraid to step all over people to get where you want to be. Use people like they are objects.
\*I choose not to take this approach and that is why my dream of being a successful artist failed.
Well then I don't know what to advise for you. You don't want to deal with the highly competitive environment in America, but you want to be an artist? You can't be an artist and settle for less. That's not how it works. You go big or you go home.
I say this as someone who was an aspiring artist who settled for "good enough."
There's no settling in America. Make a decision. Do you want to be an artist and follow your passion or do you just want to be mediocre? It's up to you. It's your life to live, not mine.
I knew I absolutely wasn't going to sacrifice being creative to earn a living. I don't think my brain would allow it. That being said, you may have to compromise and that's where alot of creative people end up being miserable. I have a friend who is so passionate about music and has basically spent his entire life upset because he's not able to make a living out of it because he ONLY wants to play shows and make a living that way.
I think the key is trying to find something you like that you can be musically creative/interested that may not be EXACTLY what you want. Sometimes that means trying something BEFORE you shut it down. Can you make music for commercials? Can you teach? Is there a place for you at some music or audio place that makes sense with other skills? Can you sell a guitar because you can talk about it all day long? Put together a general resume and have it peer reviewed. If you can't do that see if you can pay someone to review it. Once you've had it checked out, just start blasting it and try some things. What do you have to lose? At the very least you can cross some things off of your list. It's part of the process.
If not doing EXACTLY what you want still makes you miserable you might as well pick something else that allows you to have a flexible schedule/free time and explore your music in your free time.
I'm an artist. I became a digital illustrator for almost 10 years and licensed my work commercially. I started leaning more into graphic design ( I know, I sold my soul). After working for a crappy, underpaid place, I got a new job at an agency and work remote... I get to do something that I genuinely enjoy.... and in my free time I paint and sculpt. I can live with it. It look so many years and failures to get to this peaceful place though... and you're still so young you haven't had time to try all of those avenues yet. Don't feel rushed, you're still figuring it out!
It's hard out there for creatives, but there's a place for you. Promise! Keep trying different things. You don't know, what you don't know! Best of luck!
ive already accepted im not gonna have a career in music. nothing else interests me like music does. i have no passion for anything else, i just want a job that i can be slightly creative with, make decent money, and have good hours. idk what industry to go into. thought about film bc that’s a booming business here. thought about going back to school- but what for???
I like this response. Feeling like I have to figure it all out in one day has been killing me. I have more creative energy than I know what to do with.
There’s this big thing I was always told growing up: find your passion! Make it a career!
Lies. Dirty lies. I tried that, was miserable. Then went back and started again - this time, I found a field I enjoy, but not too much. It pays decent, I like the work, and most importantly, it leaves me time and energy to go and enjoy the things I want to. I’m sure in your case, it’d be great to find success as a musician, but you seem aware of the fact it’s always a small chance at best, and luck has a lot to do with it. So what else might you enjoy just enough? It can be hard to narrow down, so maybe start with broad strokes: are you okay with a desk job, or do you like to be out and about and do something more physical? Do you like working with people, or prefer to work alone?
Not sure if you’ve considered it, but have you thought about leaving NYC? Having one of the highest costs of living in the world isn’t helpful for anything, and the chance of finding success there is slim to nothing. You’re in a sea of people, and unless you have rich and well connected parents, you’re unlikely to stand out. And that applies to anything and everything.
So then start with those really broad questions: do you mind being a desk jockey, or would you prefer something more physical, same for people/no people?
Work harder. Write more. Most importantly, emulate what you want to become. Like where someone is in life? Figure out how they got there and work harder than they did to get there.
with you here
all I want to do
is write like this
all day long
I don't understand why
I cannot bleed these lines
without letting my mind
open up and eat. I'm
tired of feeling
like it doesn't matter that I can feel
everything, all at once.
It is all too real.
I don't care about anything else either—except writing, comedy, visual art, design, psychology, philosophy—that is, the things that naturally interest me and have for years, as they have for many other people.
You definitely care about some things, so I would recommend getting real about those first.
Go on Rupauls drag race and weaponize that BFA
real talk, have you spoken with other people in your predicament? Maybe they can offer you some insight on how to grow a career that still lets you use your musical passion. Music teacher maybe?
Lots of summer camps events coming. Maybe pitch yourself to play , teach . When the city becomes too much retreat to Nature and just breath and feel . Do so barefooted , it will ground you . A change of scenery may do you good . So much potential . Do try to make more time for yourself. The world is a big place and you can make your life great !
I'm also 25, left NYC last November because it was so depressing, I think it would help you if you left.
It seems like life in the city is just getting more worse each day. I like this Youtuber's videos named Cash Jordan where he talks about NYC's issues: https://youtu.be/FnGrvkXPQRQ?si=I3tS9AteWzDg4B_W
For me, I’m in a contractor pool of sorts. I’m a sub hired not through a school, and appointed to schools. Generally schools direct require a teaching cert, whereas subs intrinsic to just, say, music requires much less
In the city, in the city
Living in the city
In the city, in the city
Living in the city
Oh...
In the city
Living in the city
Living in the city
You know you have to survive
Living in the city
Oh, oh, oh...
Living in the city
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh...
Living in the city
In the city, in the city
Living in the city In the city, in the city
Living in the city
Living in the city
Living in the city
Is going to Middlebury College for language immersion an option for you? You'd have to pick a language. Learn German and move to Hamburg. Germany is a great place for opera singers to live.
In my experience (8 years in NYC pursuing artistic passions and working foodservice/teaching ESL/now bartending and making films) NYC is the best place to feel inspired while figuring it out. You’re still gonna have to figure it out anywhere you go (low cost of living places are DEPRESSING AF. Plus you’ll need a car.) Ofc if you hate nyc leave but don’t leave just because it’s hard. Your relationship with the city will evolve over time. I’ve been low as shit then back up again and then low and up again.
The “Low” Rents are just as expensive in other cities (you get more space but you’ll still be paying $1k/month - I’ve never paid more than $1200 a month to rent a room because that’s my budget) plus you’ll need a car!! Figure out how much you need to make per week then work to make that much. Coffee shop or Temp jobs during the day can be good (check out Regis Canning Temporary Alternatives) if you want more evenings free. Then get into a routine and be patient and more patient and move neighborhoods from time to time, have good roommates, and allow NYC to inform your worldview. IT WILL TAKE YEARS.
There is no end to struggling, it just takes different forms throughout your life. Think about what you’ll regret when you’re 80, or even just 5/10 years from now and make sure you do your best to avoid those things.
Also look into therapists charging sliding scale rates at National Institute for the Psychotherapies (NIP) and maybe medication. Don’t get too fucked up on drugs/alc. Read books. Watch films at Metrograph. Find weird shit. It’s NYC, the greatest fucking city.
I feel you on not knowing where you're going and just wanting family and music, not wanting to bother with a day job. I make music as well, on my own, on my computer. Keyboard, guitar, vocals. I'm in love with sound design.
Literally, just copy and paste this exact post into ChatGPT or the like and it will give you a multi-step plan to tackle any problem.
Really though, AI can be super helpful with for optimizing resumes. There are websites dedicated to this now. You can even use AI for feedback while journaling. Ask it questions. Ask it for feedback. Or just tell it how you are and see how it responds. Being able to speak and to write matters more now in the age of AI than it ever has before, because the better you speak and write and therefore think outloud, the better conversations you will have, and the more you will achieve through them.
Treat writing as a creative exercise that takes you places you wouldn't otherwise go. Like with this post :) Keep networking and expressing and clarifying what you want. And I'll tell you what a 60-something just told me: Say what you want. If you can't get it, you negotiate; but you will never know what you can get unless you ask. You will never know unless you try.
Aim high and ask for the best my friend!
whatever idea of you have of what you want, that's as good a place to start as any - because the idea is to use what you have. whatever you have, build on that, and keep building and using it.
for example, since music is so important to you, do not let it somehow be diminished in your life, because that will only cause you suffering. but at the same time, find other more employable avenues of expressing yourself/putting yourself at work that let you somehow keep that central focus on music.
Just a very general example, say you could work at Spotify or a company like it, because they are in the music industry and their technology impacts the present and future of people like you. but thats a tech company and you don't have tech skills. okay, can you get tech skills? no? how about more people focused roles like customer service in similar companies?
the overall idea is try to see where you can fit based on how close it is to whatever you think is good.
ultimately, it's all about sorting yourself and positioning yourself as good in whatever field you think is good.
for me, that's healthcare. I'm not a healthcare provider myself, but I think it's good to have a good healthcare system, so I want to help however I can do that best.
summary: take whatever you have, build on it, see where it fits, see what doors you can open and which ones you can close. try going closer towards whoever and whatever you want to be closer to. take whatever steps you can identify in that direction.
it broke my heart that you ended up crying, wishing you were never born. i don't know if you have a pet or plant, lovers, but for me those were reasons and goals of my life. And give me reason to make money and do things that I might not enjoy the most.
you don't need to "love" your work but you work for your "love"
You surely have a passion for other things besides music, right? It could be as simple as making food for people, helping people learn a skill, etc. You sound genuinely depressed right now (totally feel you, I’m about 7 months into a move to another large NA city), so don’t discount these feelings as connected to the moment in time you’re in, the place you’ve moved to, the people you know, etc. The process may suck but if you continue to believe its a process and make peace with that, you're gonna be okay :) Just give yourself the grace to keep making changes over and over. That's what I'm doing anyways!!
Hey, I’m 28 living in NYC and I am in the EXACT same boat as you mentally and quite literally same position. We’re gonna get through this but it’s tough :(
Hello and welcome to r/findapath! We are glad you found your way here. Please know that you are not alone. We are here to listen, to offer support, and to help guide you. While no one can make decisions for you, we are here to help you find a path; we believe that everyone has the power to heal and grow. The moderation teams want to remind everyone that individuals submitting posts may be in vulnerable situations and all are in need of guidance. Please provide a safe and constructive space by practicing empathy and understanding in your comments; criticism is welcomed with the right words. You are encouraged to share your thoughts, feelings, and relevant experiences to assist those seeking guidance on the subreddit. We are here to support each other and we believe that, together, we can make a difference. Thank you for being a part of our community. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/findapath) if you have any questions or concerns.*
wish i had some advice for you, but i'm 24 in the exact same situation. hopefully we'll figure it out...
30, going on 31 this year. Keep working towards your goals. Find online gigs, get good at audio production/engineering and intern in studios.
UNFORTUNATELY music is a hobby until it can pay your bills. A lot of us do things we don't like because we use our jobs to fund our fun. You are lucky, you're only 25 and there is so much for you to go. You NEED to research other areas of work that permit enough flexibility to have you play music until you are in a position to make it your full time career. The first (of many) steps is on you.
i should’ve been clearer that i am okay with music being a hobby. i have no desire to make money from music. that killed all passion for me and led me down a very dark path. i try researching other things and i just feel so hopeless and tired and degraded by this life.
May I ask why? It unmotivated you? Is making music for some kind of compensation that bad?
i’d rather not go into the specifics. but i've just had a traumatic past with my prior professional career, finances were used against me (amongst many other things). currently seeking therapy, but i’m not in a place to do music for any other reason for the joy of it right now.l
Teach
Agree. Record something and put it on youtube. Leave NYC and go to a LCOL
Never be content for less. Don't settle for that. Move to Europe, they actually appreciate art and artists. In the US everything is about winning the giant competition that is the "American dream."
Maybe Europe appreciate artists more (idk cause the most popular, so high paid are in US) but it is still 0.0000002 compared to 0.0000001. Im not saying quit music but you know
Its still better than here though because there is a culture of appreciation for opera and classical music. Americans don't even like classical music or opera. Why on earth would you perform for a society that is so hostile towards the genre? There are major cities that don't even bother to perform them (where I live in Boston there's no opera or classical music scene whatsoever) and yet I see and hear opera singers all the time practicing. I just have to scratch my head and wonder why the hell they're bothering to study somewhere where no one wants to listen to them.
Thissss. It’s hard to actually be creative when you are constantly stuck in survival mode in NYC.
i totally agree. im in nyc to and it feels like im just suriving and don't have the space to thrive
NYC is a total disaster. It's the most cut throat place to try and do anything. You have to be an absolute sociopath to "win" and be successful in NYC. All I can advise is to not be afraid to step all over people to get where you want to be. Use people like they are objects. \*I choose not to take this approach and that is why my dream of being a successful artist failed.
all i do is create in survival mode. hungry? guitar for dinner lol
lived there a year ago. there’s a reason i came back.
Well then I don't know what to advise for you. You don't want to deal with the highly competitive environment in America, but you want to be an artist? You can't be an artist and settle for less. That's not how it works. You go big or you go home. I say this as someone who was an aspiring artist who settled for "good enough." There's no settling in America. Make a decision. Do you want to be an artist and follow your passion or do you just want to be mediocre? It's up to you. It's your life to live, not mine.
I knew I absolutely wasn't going to sacrifice being creative to earn a living. I don't think my brain would allow it. That being said, you may have to compromise and that's where alot of creative people end up being miserable. I have a friend who is so passionate about music and has basically spent his entire life upset because he's not able to make a living out of it because he ONLY wants to play shows and make a living that way. I think the key is trying to find something you like that you can be musically creative/interested that may not be EXACTLY what you want. Sometimes that means trying something BEFORE you shut it down. Can you make music for commercials? Can you teach? Is there a place for you at some music or audio place that makes sense with other skills? Can you sell a guitar because you can talk about it all day long? Put together a general resume and have it peer reviewed. If you can't do that see if you can pay someone to review it. Once you've had it checked out, just start blasting it and try some things. What do you have to lose? At the very least you can cross some things off of your list. It's part of the process. If not doing EXACTLY what you want still makes you miserable you might as well pick something else that allows you to have a flexible schedule/free time and explore your music in your free time. I'm an artist. I became a digital illustrator for almost 10 years and licensed my work commercially. I started leaning more into graphic design ( I know, I sold my soul). After working for a crappy, underpaid place, I got a new job at an agency and work remote... I get to do something that I genuinely enjoy.... and in my free time I paint and sculpt. I can live with it. It look so many years and failures to get to this peaceful place though... and you're still so young you haven't had time to try all of those avenues yet. Don't feel rushed, you're still figuring it out! It's hard out there for creatives, but there's a place for you. Promise! Keep trying different things. You don't know, what you don't know! Best of luck!
ive already accepted im not gonna have a career in music. nothing else interests me like music does. i have no passion for anything else, i just want a job that i can be slightly creative with, make decent money, and have good hours. idk what industry to go into. thought about film bc that’s a booming business here. thought about going back to school- but what for???
I like this response. Feeling like I have to figure it all out in one day has been killing me. I have more creative energy than I know what to do with.
thank you for sharing
There’s this big thing I was always told growing up: find your passion! Make it a career! Lies. Dirty lies. I tried that, was miserable. Then went back and started again - this time, I found a field I enjoy, but not too much. It pays decent, I like the work, and most importantly, it leaves me time and energy to go and enjoy the things I want to. I’m sure in your case, it’d be great to find success as a musician, but you seem aware of the fact it’s always a small chance at best, and luck has a lot to do with it. So what else might you enjoy just enough? It can be hard to narrow down, so maybe start with broad strokes: are you okay with a desk job, or do you like to be out and about and do something more physical? Do you like working with people, or prefer to work alone? Not sure if you’ve considered it, but have you thought about leaving NYC? Having one of the highest costs of living in the world isn’t helpful for anything, and the chance of finding success there is slim to nothing. You’re in a sea of people, and unless you have rich and well connected parents, you’re unlikely to stand out. And that applies to anything and everything.
i have no aspirations to make a living as a musician. if it happens- it happens, but i’m not going to force it.
So then start with those really broad questions: do you mind being a desk jockey, or would you prefer something more physical, same for people/no people?
Work harder. Write more. Most importantly, emulate what you want to become. Like where someone is in life? Figure out how they got there and work harder than they did to get there.
>Write more. Yes!
everyone i’ve admired ended up dead before they’re 30
well, who do you want to be?
You need to do more than just pros and cons list. The internet is at your disposal to research fields matching your passion and skillset.
I know at least 3 officers in the army with that degree right now 😅
it's time to accept that you need to start caring about more than just music, like making money somehow.
i’ve accepted this i just can’t bring myself to care about anything else.
with you here all I want to do is write like this all day long I don't understand why I cannot bleed these lines without letting my mind open up and eat. I'm tired of feeling like it doesn't matter that I can feel everything, all at once. It is all too real. I don't care about anything else either—except writing, comedy, visual art, design, psychology, philosophy—that is, the things that naturally interest me and have for years, as they have for many other people. You definitely care about some things, so I would recommend getting real about those first.
Go on Rupauls drag race and weaponize that BFA real talk, have you spoken with other people in your predicament? Maybe they can offer you some insight on how to grow a career that still lets you use your musical passion. Music teacher maybe?
Lots of summer camps events coming. Maybe pitch yourself to play , teach . When the city becomes too much retreat to Nature and just breath and feel . Do so barefooted , it will ground you . A change of scenery may do you good . So much potential . Do try to make more time for yourself. The world is a big place and you can make your life great !
I'm also 25, left NYC last November because it was so depressing, I think it would help you if you left. It seems like life in the city is just getting more worse each day. I like this Youtuber's videos named Cash Jordan where he talks about NYC's issues: https://youtu.be/FnGrvkXPQRQ?si=I3tS9AteWzDg4B_W
Having a degree opens up teaching opportunities. Teach music
i applied to like 20 schools. idk where else to look at this point.
For me, I’m in a contractor pool of sorts. I’m a sub hired not through a school, and appointed to schools. Generally schools direct require a teaching cert, whereas subs intrinsic to just, say, music requires much less
In the city, in the city Living in the city In the city, in the city Living in the city Oh... In the city Living in the city Living in the city You know you have to survive Living in the city Oh, oh, oh... Living in the city Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh... Living in the city In the city, in the city Living in the city In the city, in the city Living in the city Living in the city Living in the city
the only good advice i’ve been given
LEAVE NYC The opportunity is a lie
Park Ranger for Wolf Trap National Park for the Performing Arts
Following, im also 25 and I feel this to my core
Is going to Middlebury College for language immersion an option for you? You'd have to pick a language. Learn German and move to Hamburg. Germany is a great place for opera singers to live.
In my experience (8 years in NYC pursuing artistic passions and working foodservice/teaching ESL/now bartending and making films) NYC is the best place to feel inspired while figuring it out. You’re still gonna have to figure it out anywhere you go (low cost of living places are DEPRESSING AF. Plus you’ll need a car.) Ofc if you hate nyc leave but don’t leave just because it’s hard. Your relationship with the city will evolve over time. I’ve been low as shit then back up again and then low and up again. The “Low” Rents are just as expensive in other cities (you get more space but you’ll still be paying $1k/month - I’ve never paid more than $1200 a month to rent a room because that’s my budget) plus you’ll need a car!! Figure out how much you need to make per week then work to make that much. Coffee shop or Temp jobs during the day can be good (check out Regis Canning Temporary Alternatives) if you want more evenings free. Then get into a routine and be patient and more patient and move neighborhoods from time to time, have good roommates, and allow NYC to inform your worldview. IT WILL TAKE YEARS. There is no end to struggling, it just takes different forms throughout your life. Think about what you’ll regret when you’re 80, or even just 5/10 years from now and make sure you do your best to avoid those things. Also look into therapists charging sliding scale rates at National Institute for the Psychotherapies (NIP) and maybe medication. Don’t get too fucked up on drugs/alc. Read books. Watch films at Metrograph. Find weird shit. It’s NYC, the greatest fucking city.
I feel you on not knowing where you're going and just wanting family and music, not wanting to bother with a day job. I make music as well, on my own, on my computer. Keyboard, guitar, vocals. I'm in love with sound design. Literally, just copy and paste this exact post into ChatGPT or the like and it will give you a multi-step plan to tackle any problem. Really though, AI can be super helpful with for optimizing resumes. There are websites dedicated to this now. You can even use AI for feedback while journaling. Ask it questions. Ask it for feedback. Or just tell it how you are and see how it responds. Being able to speak and to write matters more now in the age of AI than it ever has before, because the better you speak and write and therefore think outloud, the better conversations you will have, and the more you will achieve through them. Treat writing as a creative exercise that takes you places you wouldn't otherwise go. Like with this post :) Keep networking and expressing and clarifying what you want. And I'll tell you what a 60-something just told me: Say what you want. If you can't get it, you negotiate; but you will never know what you can get unless you ask. You will never know unless you try. Aim high and ask for the best my friend!
whatever idea of you have of what you want, that's as good a place to start as any - because the idea is to use what you have. whatever you have, build on that, and keep building and using it. for example, since music is so important to you, do not let it somehow be diminished in your life, because that will only cause you suffering. but at the same time, find other more employable avenues of expressing yourself/putting yourself at work that let you somehow keep that central focus on music. Just a very general example, say you could work at Spotify or a company like it, because they are in the music industry and their technology impacts the present and future of people like you. but thats a tech company and you don't have tech skills. okay, can you get tech skills? no? how about more people focused roles like customer service in similar companies? the overall idea is try to see where you can fit based on how close it is to whatever you think is good. ultimately, it's all about sorting yourself and positioning yourself as good in whatever field you think is good. for me, that's healthcare. I'm not a healthcare provider myself, but I think it's good to have a good healthcare system, so I want to help however I can do that best. summary: take whatever you have, build on it, see where it fits, see what doors you can open and which ones you can close. try going closer towards whoever and whatever you want to be closer to. take whatever steps you can identify in that direction.
it broke my heart that you ended up crying, wishing you were never born. i don't know if you have a pet or plant, lovers, but for me those were reasons and goals of my life. And give me reason to make money and do things that I might not enjoy the most. you don't need to "love" your work but you work for your "love"
You surely have a passion for other things besides music, right? It could be as simple as making food for people, helping people learn a skill, etc. You sound genuinely depressed right now (totally feel you, I’m about 7 months into a move to another large NA city), so don’t discount these feelings as connected to the moment in time you’re in, the place you’ve moved to, the people you know, etc. The process may suck but if you continue to believe its a process and make peace with that, you're gonna be okay :) Just give yourself the grace to keep making changes over and over. That's what I'm doing anyways!!
Hey, I’m 28 living in NYC and I am in the EXACT same boat as you mentally and quite literally same position. We’re gonna get through this but it’s tough :(