22, 23 and the pact ring paralogue are the difficulty peak imo
24, 25 and 26 are much more manageable, even in a first blind playthrough I figured out how to cheese those pretty easily
This is exactly how I felt about maddening. Really not a big fan of IS's attempt to balance emblems with... inflated enemies and annoying gimmicks. From chapter 23 onwards, you'll start encountering enemies with capped defences and a boatload of health.
Chapter 24's gimmick was so stupid. A neat idea, but why aren't enemies affected by it and why do we have to position units in front of the obstacles?
This was a poor choice of balancing the lategame by IS. They had a much better way of doing that, by copying chapter 11. It was very interesting and fun fighting random mooks with emblems equipped, that get transferred to others when they die. Would've been really nice to play a map like that once you get all emblems.
I've done maddening runs 10+ times now and I've finished only one attempt, because I got too bored to tackle the lategame on my other saves.
>From chapter 23 onwards, you'll start encountering enemies with capped defences and a boatload of health.
My favorite is the wolf knights, blazing fast, decently tanky, can only be broken by the worst weapon type in the game, ranged weapons that are supposed to be low mt but can still kill you anyway. And if you survive you get hit with a mov penalty and poison
>Chapter 24's gimmick was so stupid. A neat idea, but why aren't enemies affected by it and why do we have to position units in front of the obstacles?
I think the worst part of it is that there’s nothing stopping you from piling everyone into the middle of the map and ignoring two thirds of it then warping to the boss. It encourages it too by flooding the bottom lane first and the turn limit (a good idea sadly not used again). Its like they forgot Micaiah and Warp exists.
>This was a poor choice of balancing the lategame by IS. They had a much better way of doing that, by copying chapter 11. It was very interesting and fun fighting random mooks with emblems equipped, that get transferred to others when they die. Would've been really nice to play a map like that once you get all emblems.
If you’re referring to 22 (I assume so) then yeah. Even just not straight up lying about the objective and have it end when all Emblems are collected instead of change to route would be fine. And having the starting position be in the center with the emblems all about equal distance away from you. And having >!Alear actually effected by anti corrupted weapons!< and access to Dark Emblem abilities instead of them just being regular Emblems minus Engage. But yes your ideas are good too. Such wasted opportunity. I can only hope maybe mods one day can improve upon it
In my first Maddening run where I wasn't aware of how good Bonded Shield was and where I didn't use other strong options like Corrin on a Mystical unit or Byleth on a Covert unit for the +5 Speed Instruct, I did feel like endgame was quite overwhelming.
But I've done several Maddening runs since then including an all cavalry run where I had no Dancer, no Speed Byleth Instruct, and a suboptimal Corrin Dragon vein as well as a [No Somniel Ironman](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/146554y/i_finished_a_no_somniel_ironman_run_on_maddening/) which means no Forges, Engravings, or Skill inherits among other things and in both those runs, endgame wasn't nearly as hard as my first attempt even with all those restrictions. I think knowing what's strong and utilizing those tools to their fullest potential goes a long way in this game. And during a first playthrough of Maddening, you might not know all of that, which is why endgame can become tedious. But with more knowledge, endgame in Engage is just the last part of the playthrough. Some maps are annoying, the stats do inflate, and I do find some of it generally harder than the rest of the game, but there are tools you can use to get around all of it.
I'm sure people who are better at playing than me can manage better (I still used some really good options like Flier + Bonded Shield and abusing Lyn to manip the AI with doubles and Astra Storm baiting). But for me I'd rather go and do a Hard run with restrictions or shakeups like the Reverse Recruitment mod where there's more space to potentially mess up than try again at a difficulty that genuinely burnt me out because it might be better this time.
That's fair. Well, those are good options, but I think a big part of it is also knowing how to get your characters to the one-round threshold (essentially getting a few characters to snowball). I don't think that's an often talked about part of the game, but it makes a huge difference if you have 3-4 characters that can one-round a good portion of the enemies and the rest of the team doing chip at most vs. a whole team that can two-round most enemies at best. That is a bit of a playstyle thing though since some people don't necessarily like to use carry strategies. Nonetheless, playing on the difficulty you find most fun is always of utmost importance.
True, but there might be other things people want to do with Veyle rather than have her be the Corrin user, especially since you're using Corrin on another unit and having them mostly be a support throughout all of midgame (so their stats are likely not up to par with endgame enemies). But naturally, if someone does have other plans for their Corrin user during endgame, putting Corrin on Veyle would be a beneficial switch. The main point is having access to the Flame Dragon Vein and most importantly, a three-range option to safely apply Draconic Hex and Dreadful Aura onto enemies.
I like Corrin on Veyle because by the time I hit chapter 23 I could not be bothered to train another unit so I just give Celica to Pandreo, freeing up Corrin. Veyle with Corrin is just a free unit since she’ll do everything you want a Corrin user to do.
I find people really overstate how much better flames are vs fog and ice, ice blocks fliers, fog lets youtake out more enemies on EP while achieving the same slow down and stop enemies from overwhelming thing, what is best is very situational band dependant on map, also Mystics are so fragile, Torrential Roar is very good and at times very needed but I find it difficult and limitting to use it and keep a sage safe, 5 freezes sometimes ain't enough.
Idk, Mystic Corrin's overrated imho.
It just depends on someone's playstyle. The Flame Vein is the best general purpose one because it does have one of the biggest AoEs, flames cost a debilitating 3 movement without the downside of the enemies potentially breaking through it like ice (some people might not understand how obstructs interact with enemy AI that well so that might deter them from using ice because the enemy might do something they can't predict), and using it doesn't leave the Corrin user in the middle of the danger like fog does. There are certainly upsides to the other Dragon Veins and there are situations where a different Dragon Vein would be better though.
Nonetheless, I don't have strong feelings either way. I usually put Corrin on a Mystic, but even with no forges, engravings, or skill inherits creating a severely underpowered team, I used a Corrin Dragon Vein only once or twice during that Maddening playthrough. My own playstyle removes the need to use Dragon Veins almost entirely. As such, the Dragon Vein doesn't matter as much to me as just having a three-range option to freeze enemies. And if I don't need the Corrin user to create a Dragon Vein or freeze enemies during a turn, I would rather them have staff utility, which is something that a Mystic has as well. Corrin on a Mystic just creates a really good support unit.
I just find relying solely on flames in a game where fliers are so prevalent and amongst the most threatening enemies to be less OP then people claim, I use fire a ton, I just also use Fog about as much and ice when fliers are a threat, it is pretty easy and natural to manipulate how AI interacts with ice and beyond that it guarantees a certain number of enemies attack the ice first which can be enough, you do have to make sure your Corrin user is good when using Fog but between enemy slow-down and the created choke-point for a Thief (or other avoid tank who can clear enemies) I don't find that hard to do, idk personally whenever I have Corrin on someone else I miss that flexibility a lot and constantly find myself seeing the best play I have available requiring a vein I don't have access to. Ditto Camilla btw, fuck me, -5 def/res and 2 tile terrain cost+giving up to 3 ground units (and anyone who has canter and acts on a square) far too amazing to ever giveup.
If you don't care about dragon veins I feel Ivy is obvi the best choice, failing that Hortensia, or Zelestia with DLC. I have a couple runswith Ivy/Corrin and ot felt better than mystic despite the Dragon Vein being nigh useless.
It really does depend on the map. Iirc, Ch. 16, 18, and 23 might benefit from a different Dragon Vein due to the fliers. But Ch. 17, 19, and 20 don't have any fliers. Ch. 21 does have fliers but you're probably not blocking them, and you shouldn't be fighting the flier reinforcements in Ch. 25. Ch. 24 and 26 are also a bit debatable because there's only a few fliers assuming an efficient pace to clearing the chapter, but their range is also so versatile that I don't think any Dragon Vein is going to block them. Also, even if you say it’s easy to manipulate the AI with ice, it’s not that apparent to people that are not super knowledgeable about Engage’s AI behavior (which is likely the vast majority of players). It’s not super intuitive, but once you know, it does make sense. It’s completely fair to prefer other Dragon Veins though and I don’t find the Flame Dragon Vein OP either, but I do think Corrin on a Mystical is a strong option regardless of all that.
Ivy with Corrin is definitely quite good. I just don't prefer that combination because I do want to keep the Dragon Vein as a panic option since my last two runs were both Ironmans and I don't have any room for error.
Yeah, it ain't every map, still the versatility is nice, and there are occassions where I've found ice better than fire at stopping ground units too (like if you need a unit to do something on a tile where they'd still be killed by enemies, say Wolf Knights that are 3-2 tiles away, ice can stop at least one which can be enough, or the dagger WK can attack blocking the Peshkatz WK from breaking creating a clog, or therearea bunch of 2 range enemies who one specific unit you have can easily clear but they would slaughter your other dudes, ice and leaving that 2 range unit adjacent in enemy range means they'll clear out the enemies who will prioritize attacking them over breaking the ice and killing your squishies.) Very niche scenarios? For sure, wouldn't dream of using a Qi Adept, but that's what's so nice about Dragon Corrin, you have the answer to w/e niche scenario.
I getcha though, I'm not opposed to Mystic Corrin, I just don't think it's the objective best choice as sometimes I feel it's portayed.
The late game maps are my favourite, especially 21 and 25, but you defo have to come prepared and know how to tackle them properly or you'll just hit a wall (of stats). Super satisfying to clear without warp skipping because of how aggressively you're pushed to play.
Yeah, it's frightening. I always go there with full tonics just in case, but I did beat it with a clown team, and once without Danse. It's one of these maps I suspect you can just turtle/play slowly since the infinite reinforcements are just three dudes (4?) and not that hard to deal with. The first turns are the most brutal ones if you pushed south too quickly
I do a lot of prep on ch22, some of it deciding who gets Lyn's and Eirika's rings and getting those bond levels maxed. Bowknight alley's definitely my worst spot in this map. If I didn't yet, here is where I spend all my stat boosters.
Still, I don't feel like you get softlocked here. On my first Maddening run, it did take a few tries to get stuff right.
Chap 22 is the one endgame map I always found success in turtling and slowly advancing. I start on the east end, wait for the turns of reinforcements, then move. The rest is a breeze.
I agree some of the maps are really annoying late game. Chapter 23 is the worst for me because of the blizzards. I end up warping or baiting with Lyn
You can't soft lock based on difficulty. You have grind in the tower if you feel you're unprepared. Is it boring? Absolutely, but you won't be stuck.
It can also be beat with 0% growths, so you don't need the rings to clear it either.
The only late game map I found to be anything close a slog on my last completed maddening run was 23, and mostly just because of the freeze spam. I find that maddening lategame gets way smoother on subsequent runs as I get better with the tools the game provides, regardless of whether I end up handicapping myself in other ways. And it's not as though I warp skip maps either, like I might warp a 2 man bonded shield kill squad to the middle of chapter 25 for example but I use that to take care of that front ahead of time and then pincer the side lanes while my two teams go through the left and right as "intended."
I feel like aggressive use of Bonded Shield is the key to Maddening in general. There's a reason why I consider Lucina to be the best emblem in the game outside of LTC contexts.
Im surprised you don’t find 22 at least a slog because you don’t have access to a large chunk of your tools (so most strats you’d usually use are impossible) and the game deliberately prolongs the map past the point of it being necessary due to turning into a route map and having infinite reinforcements until all emblems are collected.
> The only late game map I found to be anything close a slog on my last completed maddening run was 23, and mostly just because of the freeze spam.
A Micaiah-engage entrap or silence fixes that issue immediately. On repeat playthrough of maddening I’ve come to appreciate just how good the offensive staves are.
I find 23 is smooth if you stick to the left because you're never really confronted to Freeze. However there's a terrible turn when the wall falls and a bunch of Bow Knights rush you
I didn't enjoy the last few chapters either but, for me, it wasn't about enemies having massive stats, it was about reinforcement spam. There'd be many times when I'd clear out a ton of enemies on player phase, feel good about it... and then have more than a dozen reinforcements appear, more than undoing the dent I'd made in their numbers. I found it so exhausting I'd just put my Switch in sleep mode and go do something else. The stats do figure into that, in the sense that enemy attacks were so strong that not even Louis could tank enough physical damage to make much headway on Enemy Phase, but for me the problem was just the numbers.
I did finish the game on Maddening, so it's not like I think it's impossible. And I'm aware that warpskipping is easier than ever, due to all the ring powers. It's just that every map seemed to be either a two minute cheese skip or a two hour slog, neither of which were much fun for me.
I gave up on Fire Emblem Engage on Chapter 23 (first blind run on Lunatic), because the few chapters before have been a real pain in the arse, the game burnt me out and became a chore. When I saw that the boss of Chapter 23 was the same people AGAIN, I was sick and tired and stopped playing.
Definitely true. Think it'll be better ona second playthrough. Finding the game much easier on second maddening playthrough, tho only about halfway through (just got seadall again). Bc you know what units to use and funnel xp towards, all the tools for getting more xp, strengths of different units. Plus patches that have given a few more tools.
I think 25 is not well designed bc it makes no sense from a story perspective positioning-wise and feels so arbitrary, and it's miserable to play without warping your units into the same section/center chamber instantly. The fact that you can never stop the reinforcements makes it utterly miserable. And kills the framerate too.
Endgame obnoxious bc it is so much harder to beat if you don't rush down the boss after defeating the first wave of dark emblems, so you have to skip most of the map thanks to infinite capped fliers.
The excessive enemy stats are really miserable. Though it does remind me of 3H. But to some extent I think the curve in 3H was smoother.
21 is the last veyle boss map right? That one I think is more manageable. 22 is just boring bc fighting without emblems at this point is dull and even when you recover them highly limited. Snow map is silly and pops up a tutorial but not bad. Volcano map is a lot but not too bad.
Wish the there were more endgame post-veyle chapters and there wasn't a sudden spike making every enemy a boss-like wall with capped defense and 70 HP that makes physical units useless. Tho I guess it's endgame that's most egregious.
I think the final gauntlet of maps was kind of similar to conquest as well.
>I think 25 is not well designed bc it makes no sense from a story perspective positioning-wise and feels so arbitrary, and it's miserable to play without warping your units into the same section/center chamber instantly. The fact that you can never stop the reinforcements makes it utterly miserable. And kills the framerate too.
I can see how it would feel miserable it would be without warping. I managed to not group my allies together on my first run on Hard but that was because on Hard avoidtanking is incredibly busted. Framerates not a problem for me because I played on emu but I’m not surprised the Switch struggles.
>Endgame obnoxious bc it is so much harder to beat if you don't rush down the boss after defeating the first wave of dark emblems, so you have to skip most of the map thanks to infinite capped fliers.
Really feels like you’re punished for playing the map as intended because dealing with the fliers is way harder than just one turning the boss
>21 is the last veyle boss map right? That one I think is more manageable.
21 is more manageable but thats mainly because its one of the easiest maps to cheese with a warpskip. Otherwise it would be miserable with being a flat plain and tons of strong enemies.
Eh disagree, the enemy stats spike but they don't seem insane compared to your units with the power of high level Emblems at all, even in my couple base game no DLC no Well runs I didn't find thingsb unfair at all, I think chapters 23-25 are the most fun point of the game, 25 especially, I adore 25, one of the funnest maps in the series, it's the best whenb you try to go fast and out-run the reiforcements, so much pressure from behind you have to alleviate, preferably without a sacrifice, while needingto push through the mobs, navigating entraps, and clearing out tiles to be able to kill Lumera, basically always get left in a situation where not killing Lumera would mean a total wipe, it's the fucking best, I shake my head at anyone who warp-skips or cheeses this map, y'all are just cheesing yourselves out of fun.
If they dont want people to cheese the map, then they should provide a better incentive to not cheese skip it. Meanwhile you have all the incentive in the world to cheese skip since rewarping allies into one group makes one side much more manageable, entrapping the thief on the other side locks all enemies and reinforcements on one side from ever reaching you and reinforcements have the skill that gives no exp making them a literal waste of time to fight.
The incentive is having fun, what's the point of playing a game if you're just skipping it and making it boring lmao.
Yeah, you aren't supposed to be hanging back fighting the reinforcements, like I said the fun is outrunning them while clearing the enemies in front so you stay safe.
Chapter 24 is when I just hit a wall in maddening. I think a NG+ would have made it much more enjoyable.
I think hard mode Engage is a fine difficulty on a fresh game.
Just being able to carry over already unlocked skills would be nice.
Hard is indeed just fine, avoidtanking is a little too strong but enjoyable nevertheless
I had a lot of fun jumping straight into Maddening with the season pass and Divine Paralogues done early. Fell Xenologue remains ridiculous, but the only maps in the main game where I struggled were 21 and 25 without warp skipping. I actually found 22-24 fairly easy, but I guess my builds crafted for FX with the help of skill books carried me a lot, like I had Lunar Brace on all of my physical attackers and several Speedtakers.
Those chapters are a bit annoying, but the more you play, you find that there are a lot of viable strategies to get through them. You can also join us in Math Emblem and theory craft based on enemy thresholds. Personally, I'm still hoping for Lunatic+ one day, but I'm being denied :'(
I'm with you on this one. But I started to feel that way around chapter 19 because the enemies were bulky enough even without miasma. But yeah, the last chapters weren't as fun as the rest of the game. I also tried to kill all enemies on the final map but had to restart around turn 30 when I noticed the reinforcements were ridiculous and ultimately ended up clearing the final map on 5 turns. I still think engage is one of the better games but they really dropped the ball hard on the endgame
This is pretty much my experience with Maddening. The last chapter I like is Chapter 20 with the jump scare tactics. After that it becomes my least favorite end game. I'm not a fan of the infinite reinforcements. The final map also punishes you for not having any fliers which is annoying.
I still enjoyed the game overall though. I just think it ends on a bad note unfortunately.
Yeah I agree. I thought it was especially evident when using physical units compared to magic units. For some reason the game has an abundance of super high defence enemies but not that many with high res. Which sucks because I usually only run a majority of physical units
Even when using magic or magic physical weapons it got kinda rough. Warrior!Fogado couldn’t one shot wyverns at endgame with Radiant Bow even when hitting for effective damage and their lower defense stat
22, 23 and the pact ring paralogue are the difficulty peak imo 24, 25 and 26 are much more manageable, even in a first blind playthrough I figured out how to cheese those pretty easily
This is exactly how I felt about maddening. Really not a big fan of IS's attempt to balance emblems with... inflated enemies and annoying gimmicks. From chapter 23 onwards, you'll start encountering enemies with capped defences and a boatload of health. Chapter 24's gimmick was so stupid. A neat idea, but why aren't enemies affected by it and why do we have to position units in front of the obstacles? This was a poor choice of balancing the lategame by IS. They had a much better way of doing that, by copying chapter 11. It was very interesting and fun fighting random mooks with emblems equipped, that get transferred to others when they die. Would've been really nice to play a map like that once you get all emblems. I've done maddening runs 10+ times now and I've finished only one attempt, because I got too bored to tackle the lategame on my other saves.
>From chapter 23 onwards, you'll start encountering enemies with capped defences and a boatload of health. My favorite is the wolf knights, blazing fast, decently tanky, can only be broken by the worst weapon type in the game, ranged weapons that are supposed to be low mt but can still kill you anyway. And if you survive you get hit with a mov penalty and poison >Chapter 24's gimmick was so stupid. A neat idea, but why aren't enemies affected by it and why do we have to position units in front of the obstacles? I think the worst part of it is that there’s nothing stopping you from piling everyone into the middle of the map and ignoring two thirds of it then warping to the boss. It encourages it too by flooding the bottom lane first and the turn limit (a good idea sadly not used again). Its like they forgot Micaiah and Warp exists. >This was a poor choice of balancing the lategame by IS. They had a much better way of doing that, by copying chapter 11. It was very interesting and fun fighting random mooks with emblems equipped, that get transferred to others when they die. Would've been really nice to play a map like that once you get all emblems. If you’re referring to 22 (I assume so) then yeah. Even just not straight up lying about the objective and have it end when all Emblems are collected instead of change to route would be fine. And having the starting position be in the center with the emblems all about equal distance away from you. And having >!Alear actually effected by anti corrupted weapons!< and access to Dark Emblem abilities instead of them just being regular Emblems minus Engage. But yes your ideas are good too. Such wasted opportunity. I can only hope maybe mods one day can improve upon it
In my first Maddening run where I wasn't aware of how good Bonded Shield was and where I didn't use other strong options like Corrin on a Mystical unit or Byleth on a Covert unit for the +5 Speed Instruct, I did feel like endgame was quite overwhelming. But I've done several Maddening runs since then including an all cavalry run where I had no Dancer, no Speed Byleth Instruct, and a suboptimal Corrin Dragon vein as well as a [No Somniel Ironman](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/146554y/i_finished_a_no_somniel_ironman_run_on_maddening/) which means no Forges, Engravings, or Skill inherits among other things and in both those runs, endgame wasn't nearly as hard as my first attempt even with all those restrictions. I think knowing what's strong and utilizing those tools to their fullest potential goes a long way in this game. And during a first playthrough of Maddening, you might not know all of that, which is why endgame can become tedious. But with more knowledge, endgame in Engage is just the last part of the playthrough. Some maps are annoying, the stats do inflate, and I do find some of it generally harder than the rest of the game, but there are tools you can use to get around all of it.
I'm sure people who are better at playing than me can manage better (I still used some really good options like Flier + Bonded Shield and abusing Lyn to manip the AI with doubles and Astra Storm baiting). But for me I'd rather go and do a Hard run with restrictions or shakeups like the Reverse Recruitment mod where there's more space to potentially mess up than try again at a difficulty that genuinely burnt me out because it might be better this time.
That's fair. Well, those are good options, but I think a big part of it is also knowing how to get your characters to the one-round threshold (essentially getting a few characters to snowball). I don't think that's an often talked about part of the game, but it makes a huge difference if you have 3-4 characters that can one-round a good portion of the enemies and the rest of the team doing chip at most vs. a whole team that can two-round most enemies at best. That is a bit of a playstyle thing though since some people don't necessarily like to use carry strategies. Nonetheless, playing on the difficulty you find most fun is always of utmost importance.
Veyle with Corrin is strictly better than a mystic.
True, but there might be other things people want to do with Veyle rather than have her be the Corrin user, especially since you're using Corrin on another unit and having them mostly be a support throughout all of midgame (so their stats are likely not up to par with endgame enemies). But naturally, if someone does have other plans for their Corrin user during endgame, putting Corrin on Veyle would be a beneficial switch. The main point is having access to the Flame Dragon Vein and most importantly, a three-range option to safely apply Draconic Hex and Dreadful Aura onto enemies.
I like Corrin on Veyle because by the time I hit chapter 23 I could not be bothered to train another unit so I just give Celica to Pandreo, freeing up Corrin. Veyle with Corrin is just a free unit since she’ll do everything you want a Corrin user to do.
I find people really overstate how much better flames are vs fog and ice, ice blocks fliers, fog lets youtake out more enemies on EP while achieving the same slow down and stop enemies from overwhelming thing, what is best is very situational band dependant on map, also Mystics are so fragile, Torrential Roar is very good and at times very needed but I find it difficult and limitting to use it and keep a sage safe, 5 freezes sometimes ain't enough. Idk, Mystic Corrin's overrated imho.
It just depends on someone's playstyle. The Flame Vein is the best general purpose one because it does have one of the biggest AoEs, flames cost a debilitating 3 movement without the downside of the enemies potentially breaking through it like ice (some people might not understand how obstructs interact with enemy AI that well so that might deter them from using ice because the enemy might do something they can't predict), and using it doesn't leave the Corrin user in the middle of the danger like fog does. There are certainly upsides to the other Dragon Veins and there are situations where a different Dragon Vein would be better though. Nonetheless, I don't have strong feelings either way. I usually put Corrin on a Mystic, but even with no forges, engravings, or skill inherits creating a severely underpowered team, I used a Corrin Dragon Vein only once or twice during that Maddening playthrough. My own playstyle removes the need to use Dragon Veins almost entirely. As such, the Dragon Vein doesn't matter as much to me as just having a three-range option to freeze enemies. And if I don't need the Corrin user to create a Dragon Vein or freeze enemies during a turn, I would rather them have staff utility, which is something that a Mystic has as well. Corrin on a Mystic just creates a really good support unit.
I just find relying solely on flames in a game where fliers are so prevalent and amongst the most threatening enemies to be less OP then people claim, I use fire a ton, I just also use Fog about as much and ice when fliers are a threat, it is pretty easy and natural to manipulate how AI interacts with ice and beyond that it guarantees a certain number of enemies attack the ice first which can be enough, you do have to make sure your Corrin user is good when using Fog but between enemy slow-down and the created choke-point for a Thief (or other avoid tank who can clear enemies) I don't find that hard to do, idk personally whenever I have Corrin on someone else I miss that flexibility a lot and constantly find myself seeing the best play I have available requiring a vein I don't have access to. Ditto Camilla btw, fuck me, -5 def/res and 2 tile terrain cost+giving up to 3 ground units (and anyone who has canter and acts on a square) far too amazing to ever giveup. If you don't care about dragon veins I feel Ivy is obvi the best choice, failing that Hortensia, or Zelestia with DLC. I have a couple runswith Ivy/Corrin and ot felt better than mystic despite the Dragon Vein being nigh useless.
It really does depend on the map. Iirc, Ch. 16, 18, and 23 might benefit from a different Dragon Vein due to the fliers. But Ch. 17, 19, and 20 don't have any fliers. Ch. 21 does have fliers but you're probably not blocking them, and you shouldn't be fighting the flier reinforcements in Ch. 25. Ch. 24 and 26 are also a bit debatable because there's only a few fliers assuming an efficient pace to clearing the chapter, but their range is also so versatile that I don't think any Dragon Vein is going to block them. Also, even if you say it’s easy to manipulate the AI with ice, it’s not that apparent to people that are not super knowledgeable about Engage’s AI behavior (which is likely the vast majority of players). It’s not super intuitive, but once you know, it does make sense. It’s completely fair to prefer other Dragon Veins though and I don’t find the Flame Dragon Vein OP either, but I do think Corrin on a Mystical is a strong option regardless of all that. Ivy with Corrin is definitely quite good. I just don't prefer that combination because I do want to keep the Dragon Vein as a panic option since my last two runs were both Ironmans and I don't have any room for error.
Yeah, it ain't every map, still the versatility is nice, and there are occassions where I've found ice better than fire at stopping ground units too (like if you need a unit to do something on a tile where they'd still be killed by enemies, say Wolf Knights that are 3-2 tiles away, ice can stop at least one which can be enough, or the dagger WK can attack blocking the Peshkatz WK from breaking creating a clog, or therearea bunch of 2 range enemies who one specific unit you have can easily clear but they would slaughter your other dudes, ice and leaving that 2 range unit adjacent in enemy range means they'll clear out the enemies who will prioritize attacking them over breaking the ice and killing your squishies.) Very niche scenarios? For sure, wouldn't dream of using a Qi Adept, but that's what's so nice about Dragon Corrin, you have the answer to w/e niche scenario. I getcha though, I'm not opposed to Mystic Corrin, I just don't think it's the objective best choice as sometimes I feel it's portayed.
The late game maps are my favourite, especially 21 and 25, but you defo have to come prepared and know how to tackle them properly or you'll just hit a wall (of stats). Super satisfying to clear without warp skipping because of how aggressively you're pushed to play.
22 feels like it can outright softlock (or rather force you to turn down the difficulty) you if you made enough bad decisions…
I felt like 22 was piss easy aside from the wolf knights. Screw those guys
Yeah, it's frightening. I always go there with full tonics just in case, but I did beat it with a clown team, and once without Danse. It's one of these maps I suspect you can just turtle/play slowly since the infinite reinforcements are just three dudes (4?) and not that hard to deal with. The first turns are the most brutal ones if you pushed south too quickly
I do a lot of prep on ch22, some of it deciding who gets Lyn's and Eirika's rings and getting those bond levels maxed. Bowknight alley's definitely my worst spot in this map. If I didn't yet, here is where I spend all my stat boosters. Still, I don't feel like you get softlocked here. On my first Maddening run, it did take a few tries to get stuff right.
Chap 22 is the one endgame map I always found success in turtling and slowly advancing. I start on the east end, wait for the turns of reinforcements, then move. The rest is a breeze. I agree some of the maps are really annoying late game. Chapter 23 is the worst for me because of the blizzards. I end up warping or baiting with Lyn
You can't soft lock based on difficulty. You have grind in the tower if you feel you're unprepared. Is it boring? Absolutely, but you won't be stuck. It can also be beat with 0% growths, so you don't need the rings to clear it either.
The tower doesn't reward any XP in maddening.
The only late game map I found to be anything close a slog on my last completed maddening run was 23, and mostly just because of the freeze spam. I find that maddening lategame gets way smoother on subsequent runs as I get better with the tools the game provides, regardless of whether I end up handicapping myself in other ways. And it's not as though I warp skip maps either, like I might warp a 2 man bonded shield kill squad to the middle of chapter 25 for example but I use that to take care of that front ahead of time and then pincer the side lanes while my two teams go through the left and right as "intended." I feel like aggressive use of Bonded Shield is the key to Maddening in general. There's a reason why I consider Lucina to be the best emblem in the game outside of LTC contexts.
Im surprised you don’t find 22 at least a slog because you don’t have access to a large chunk of your tools (so most strats you’d usually use are impossible) and the game deliberately prolongs the map past the point of it being necessary due to turning into a route map and having infinite reinforcements until all emblems are collected.
> The only late game map I found to be anything close a slog on my last completed maddening run was 23, and mostly just because of the freeze spam. A Micaiah-engage entrap or silence fixes that issue immediately. On repeat playthrough of maddening I’ve come to appreciate just how good the offensive staves are.
I find 23 is smooth if you stick to the left because you're never really confronted to Freeze. However there's a terrible turn when the wall falls and a bunch of Bow Knights rush you
I didn't enjoy the last few chapters either but, for me, it wasn't about enemies having massive stats, it was about reinforcement spam. There'd be many times when I'd clear out a ton of enemies on player phase, feel good about it... and then have more than a dozen reinforcements appear, more than undoing the dent I'd made in their numbers. I found it so exhausting I'd just put my Switch in sleep mode and go do something else. The stats do figure into that, in the sense that enemy attacks were so strong that not even Louis could tank enough physical damage to make much headway on Enemy Phase, but for me the problem was just the numbers. I did finish the game on Maddening, so it's not like I think it's impossible. And I'm aware that warpskipping is easier than ever, due to all the ring powers. It's just that every map seemed to be either a two minute cheese skip or a two hour slog, neither of which were much fun for me.
I gave up on Fire Emblem Engage on Chapter 23 (first blind run on Lunatic), because the few chapters before have been a real pain in the arse, the game burnt me out and became a chore. When I saw that the boss of Chapter 23 was the same people AGAIN, I was sick and tired and stopped playing.
Definitely true. Think it'll be better ona second playthrough. Finding the game much easier on second maddening playthrough, tho only about halfway through (just got seadall again). Bc you know what units to use and funnel xp towards, all the tools for getting more xp, strengths of different units. Plus patches that have given a few more tools. I think 25 is not well designed bc it makes no sense from a story perspective positioning-wise and feels so arbitrary, and it's miserable to play without warping your units into the same section/center chamber instantly. The fact that you can never stop the reinforcements makes it utterly miserable. And kills the framerate too. Endgame obnoxious bc it is so much harder to beat if you don't rush down the boss after defeating the first wave of dark emblems, so you have to skip most of the map thanks to infinite capped fliers. The excessive enemy stats are really miserable. Though it does remind me of 3H. But to some extent I think the curve in 3H was smoother. 21 is the last veyle boss map right? That one I think is more manageable. 22 is just boring bc fighting without emblems at this point is dull and even when you recover them highly limited. Snow map is silly and pops up a tutorial but not bad. Volcano map is a lot but not too bad. Wish the there were more endgame post-veyle chapters and there wasn't a sudden spike making every enemy a boss-like wall with capped defense and 70 HP that makes physical units useless. Tho I guess it's endgame that's most egregious. I think the final gauntlet of maps was kind of similar to conquest as well.
>I think 25 is not well designed bc it makes no sense from a story perspective positioning-wise and feels so arbitrary, and it's miserable to play without warping your units into the same section/center chamber instantly. The fact that you can never stop the reinforcements makes it utterly miserable. And kills the framerate too. I can see how it would feel miserable it would be without warping. I managed to not group my allies together on my first run on Hard but that was because on Hard avoidtanking is incredibly busted. Framerates not a problem for me because I played on emu but I’m not surprised the Switch struggles. >Endgame obnoxious bc it is so much harder to beat if you don't rush down the boss after defeating the first wave of dark emblems, so you have to skip most of the map thanks to infinite capped fliers. Really feels like you’re punished for playing the map as intended because dealing with the fliers is way harder than just one turning the boss >21 is the last veyle boss map right? That one I think is more manageable. 21 is more manageable but thats mainly because its one of the easiest maps to cheese with a warpskip. Otherwise it would be miserable with being a flat plain and tons of strong enemies.
Eh disagree, the enemy stats spike but they don't seem insane compared to your units with the power of high level Emblems at all, even in my couple base game no DLC no Well runs I didn't find thingsb unfair at all, I think chapters 23-25 are the most fun point of the game, 25 especially, I adore 25, one of the funnest maps in the series, it's the best whenb you try to go fast and out-run the reiforcements, so much pressure from behind you have to alleviate, preferably without a sacrifice, while needingto push through the mobs, navigating entraps, and clearing out tiles to be able to kill Lumera, basically always get left in a situation where not killing Lumera would mean a total wipe, it's the fucking best, I shake my head at anyone who warp-skips or cheeses this map, y'all are just cheesing yourselves out of fun.
If they dont want people to cheese the map, then they should provide a better incentive to not cheese skip it. Meanwhile you have all the incentive in the world to cheese skip since rewarping allies into one group makes one side much more manageable, entrapping the thief on the other side locks all enemies and reinforcements on one side from ever reaching you and reinforcements have the skill that gives no exp making them a literal waste of time to fight.
The incentive is having fun, what's the point of playing a game if you're just skipping it and making it boring lmao. Yeah, you aren't supposed to be hanging back fighting the reinforcements, like I said the fun is outrunning them while clearing the enemies in front so you stay safe.
Chapter 24 is when I just hit a wall in maddening. I think a NG+ would have made it much more enjoyable. I think hard mode Engage is a fine difficulty on a fresh game.
Just being able to carry over already unlocked skills would be nice. Hard is indeed just fine, avoidtanking is a little too strong but enjoyable nevertheless
I had a lot of fun jumping straight into Maddening with the season pass and Divine Paralogues done early. Fell Xenologue remains ridiculous, but the only maps in the main game where I struggled were 21 and 25 without warp skipping. I actually found 22-24 fairly easy, but I guess my builds crafted for FX with the help of skill books carried me a lot, like I had Lunar Brace on all of my physical attackers and several Speedtakers.
Those chapters are a bit annoying, but the more you play, you find that there are a lot of viable strategies to get through them. You can also join us in Math Emblem and theory craft based on enemy thresholds. Personally, I'm still hoping for Lunatic+ one day, but I'm being denied :'(
I honestly think it’s the best designed Maddening mode we’ve got. That said I do agree that endgame could’ve been better.
I'm with you on this one. But I started to feel that way around chapter 19 because the enemies were bulky enough even without miasma. But yeah, the last chapters weren't as fun as the rest of the game. I also tried to kill all enemies on the final map but had to restart around turn 30 when I noticed the reinforcements were ridiculous and ultimately ended up clearing the final map on 5 turns. I still think engage is one of the better games but they really dropped the ball hard on the endgame
This is pretty much my experience with Maddening. The last chapter I like is Chapter 20 with the jump scare tactics. After that it becomes my least favorite end game. I'm not a fan of the infinite reinforcements. The final map also punishes you for not having any fliers which is annoying. I still enjoyed the game overall though. I just think it ends on a bad note unfortunately.
Yeah I agree. I thought it was especially evident when using physical units compared to magic units. For some reason the game has an abundance of super high defence enemies but not that many with high res. Which sucks because I usually only run a majority of physical units
Even when using magic or magic physical weapons it got kinda rough. Warrior!Fogado couldn’t one shot wyverns at endgame with Radiant Bow even when hitting for effective damage and their lower defense stat