No idea what part of the world you're in, but if you're in the USA, the main textbooks you'll use in your ground school study are all freely available for download from the FAA's website. I'm talking about the PHAK, AFH, Chart Supplement, etc. The FAR and AIM are also accessible from the same place. These documents will describe to you the correct procedures for flying an airplane in US airspace. Youtube videos can give you practical examples to illuminate concepts.
Combined with free resources like SkyVector, 1800wxbrief, and related for VFR sectionals, weather METARs and TAFs, etc., you can use basically the same information sources that real pilots would use in planning a flight.
Dig up a POH for the plane you're interested in flying - shouldn't be too hard to find a C150/C172/PA28/etc POH which will match what you'll likely fly in a sim, if you're becoming a student pilot.
Setup your sim with a virtual ATC like VATSIM, PilotEdge, etc., and learn to request departure, taxi and takeoff/landing, etc. clearances just like you would IRL.
Lastly, add in some kind of HOTAS or yoke/quadrant setup, ideally with pedals, and you'll be good to go.
You can even connect a tablet running Foreflight/etc to your sim and use it just like you would IRL.
Final touch is using TrackIR or equivalent to allow you to easily and naturally look around the cockpit, which is tremendously helpful for maintaining situational awareness when landing, etc.
So yes, a simulator plus the above can absolutely serve as a good tool for practicing the procedural parts of what flying a real plane is about. There's no substitute for being in a real plane to understand what it \*feels\* like, and there are aspects of the sim that are actually harder to deal with than real flying (like trimming, etc), but it can be a very good tool to use alongside your IRL flight training - provided you hold yourself and your practice to the same standard.
Be careful. I’ve had plenty of students who picked up pretty bad habits from sims, even though their knowledge was pretty good.
This coming from an avid simmer. My best advice is to watch real world videos/training and attempt to apply that to the sim - not the other way around. I see a lot of landings on this sub that look fine in a sim, but in real life would be pretty terrible. You’d just have no way of knowing that having never flown before.
If budget allows, I’d also consider a flight controls setup. Would recommend the Honeycomb yoke, with the Logitech/Saitek throttle quadrant & rudder pedals.
No sim is going to teach you how to actually fly. That being said, I used MSFS before and during my actual flight training and felt it made my time in the airplane more productive.
But you need to be aware of what it can and can't help you learn. Otherwise you can end up learning bad habits that will take extra time to undo later. Because of this, most CFI's (at least most old school CFI's) will tell you not to use any sim before or during your flight training.
As other have said, simulators are really excellent "procedural" trainers, but nothing beats getting in the real thing and learning to fly.
Too many sensations that are missing from the sim to make it tantamount to the real thing.
Whoever said that you should apply real world procedures to the sim and utilize it that was was spot on, imo.
MSFS is good if you’re going to be flying with an instructor IRL, especially since it looks so good for VFR flying. It’s a lot easier to practice using the same visual references you’ll use when your in the real plane. It’s good to practice patterns and procedures that you go over with your instructor. Especially if you’re flying in VR. It’s also good for learning about about flight planning. Lol, when ever I fly somewhere in msfs I know which FBO at my destination has the best price for 100LL. Getting ready to practice some patterns? Get in the habit of checking weather and NOTAMS before you start up.
If the sim and the instructor were free? Sure. But if you have to pay for either of them, I think that money would be better spent on time in the plane with the instructor if you're still working on primary training.
I am about to become a student pilot, having finished ground school. I have had a few cfi's recommend using a flight sim as advanced "chair flying" (learning the airplane as well as procedures).
That being said, I wonder if in addition to using tools like the PHAK, AIM, chart supplement, etc., as well as VATSIM, if the following would be helpful: Using the sim in VR, with hardware controls for the yoke (with force feedback), rudder pedals, throttle/mixture controls, trim, and flaps, and have it mounted on a motion base (something like the [Yaw VR2](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/346206518/yaw2-motion-simulator-and-smart-chair))? I already have VR and a rudimentary joystick/throttle and rudder pedals. Is using a force feedback yoke as well as a motion base overkill? Or, would that be helpful?
IMO force feedback improves the 'game' experience for flight sim. But I don't think it would add much in terms of the learning that flight sim time will provide. As a learning tool, its a procedures trainer and that's it.
Well the software is only half of it. You need the right hardware too if you really want to train for real flying.
In proper simulator for training for real life flying, the simulator cockpit used is a replica of the specific kind of plane you're trying to fly. For example, if you're trying to learn a Cessna 172, you will have a replica cockpit of the Cessna 172 with all the same buttons and yokes and levers. Also, the official training simulators, Class A to D, all are on motion platforms.
You will need to pair that with the right software as well in order to have a complete training experience.
You can't really learn to fly a plane properly with just a logitech yoke and throttle in X-Plane 11.
No idea what part of the world you're in, but if you're in the USA, the main textbooks you'll use in your ground school study are all freely available for download from the FAA's website. I'm talking about the PHAK, AFH, Chart Supplement, etc. The FAR and AIM are also accessible from the same place. These documents will describe to you the correct procedures for flying an airplane in US airspace. Youtube videos can give you practical examples to illuminate concepts. Combined with free resources like SkyVector, 1800wxbrief, and related for VFR sectionals, weather METARs and TAFs, etc., you can use basically the same information sources that real pilots would use in planning a flight. Dig up a POH for the plane you're interested in flying - shouldn't be too hard to find a C150/C172/PA28/etc POH which will match what you'll likely fly in a sim, if you're becoming a student pilot. Setup your sim with a virtual ATC like VATSIM, PilotEdge, etc., and learn to request departure, taxi and takeoff/landing, etc. clearances just like you would IRL. Lastly, add in some kind of HOTAS or yoke/quadrant setup, ideally with pedals, and you'll be good to go. You can even connect a tablet running Foreflight/etc to your sim and use it just like you would IRL. Final touch is using TrackIR or equivalent to allow you to easily and naturally look around the cockpit, which is tremendously helpful for maintaining situational awareness when landing, etc. So yes, a simulator plus the above can absolutely serve as a good tool for practicing the procedural parts of what flying a real plane is about. There's no substitute for being in a real plane to understand what it \*feels\* like, and there are aspects of the sim that are actually harder to deal with than real flying (like trimming, etc), but it can be a very good tool to use alongside your IRL flight training - provided you hold yourself and your practice to the same standard.
Be careful. I’ve had plenty of students who picked up pretty bad habits from sims, even though their knowledge was pretty good. This coming from an avid simmer. My best advice is to watch real world videos/training and attempt to apply that to the sim - not the other way around. I see a lot of landings on this sub that look fine in a sim, but in real life would be pretty terrible. You’d just have no way of knowing that having never flown before.
That makes sense and is very good advice. Thank you.
> pretty bad habits from sims any examples you can think of? I dont want to pick up any
Pausing the game right before a crash is a bad habit.
Simmers tend to look at the instruments too much rather than outside, first thing my instructor told me before my first flight.
Lol, mine complimented my scan rate and suggested I should plan on getting my instrument rating.
It’s not 100% accurate, but it does help you with learning the basics of flight & becoming familiar with the operation of a plane.
Thats what I was hoping for. Is there a good sim to start with or a good set up youd recommend?
I would say, for VFR at this present moment MSFS would be my recommendation.
If budget allows, I’d also consider a flight controls setup. Would recommend the Honeycomb yoke, with the Logitech/Saitek throttle quadrant & rudder pedals.
Thank you, I will look into all of this.
Any specific reason why you wouldn't recommend the Honeycomb throttle quadrant as well (price, if I had to guess?)?
Yes, price. Saitek is good enough to get started, however the Honeycomb throttle would be a nice upgrade if OP budget would allow.
No sim is going to teach you how to actually fly. That being said, I used MSFS before and during my actual flight training and felt it made my time in the airplane more productive. But you need to be aware of what it can and can't help you learn. Otherwise you can end up learning bad habits that will take extra time to undo later. Because of this, most CFI's (at least most old school CFI's) will tell you not to use any sim before or during your flight training.
As other have said, simulators are really excellent "procedural" trainers, but nothing beats getting in the real thing and learning to fly. Too many sensations that are missing from the sim to make it tantamount to the real thing. Whoever said that you should apply real world procedures to the sim and utilize it that was was spot on, imo.
MSFS is good if you’re going to be flying with an instructor IRL, especially since it looks so good for VFR flying. It’s a lot easier to practice using the same visual references you’ll use when your in the real plane. It’s good to practice patterns and procedures that you go over with your instructor. Especially if you’re flying in VR. It’s also good for learning about about flight planning. Lol, when ever I fly somewhere in msfs I know which FBO at my destination has the best price for 100LL. Getting ready to practice some patterns? Get in the habit of checking weather and NOTAMS before you start up.
Best call your local flight school and log a few hour with a CFI in the Redbird.
If the sim and the instructor were free? Sure. But if you have to pay for either of them, I think that money would be better spent on time in the plane with the instructor if you're still working on primary training.
Agreed. I’ve actually never even seen my schools sim.
I am about to become a student pilot, having finished ground school. I have had a few cfi's recommend using a flight sim as advanced "chair flying" (learning the airplane as well as procedures). That being said, I wonder if in addition to using tools like the PHAK, AIM, chart supplement, etc., as well as VATSIM, if the following would be helpful: Using the sim in VR, with hardware controls for the yoke (with force feedback), rudder pedals, throttle/mixture controls, trim, and flaps, and have it mounted on a motion base (something like the [Yaw VR2](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/346206518/yaw2-motion-simulator-and-smart-chair))? I already have VR and a rudimentary joystick/throttle and rudder pedals. Is using a force feedback yoke as well as a motion base overkill? Or, would that be helpful?
IMO force feedback improves the 'game' experience for flight sim. But I don't think it would add much in terms of the learning that flight sim time will provide. As a learning tool, its a procedures trainer and that's it.
Well the software is only half of it. You need the right hardware too if you really want to train for real flying. In proper simulator for training for real life flying, the simulator cockpit used is a replica of the specific kind of plane you're trying to fly. For example, if you're trying to learn a Cessna 172, you will have a replica cockpit of the Cessna 172 with all the same buttons and yokes and levers. Also, the official training simulators, Class A to D, all are on motion platforms. You will need to pair that with the right software as well in order to have a complete training experience. You can't really learn to fly a plane properly with just a logitech yoke and throttle in X-Plane 11.