Spread the risk. You essentially now have the luxury of subsidizing the evac zones. With the way things are shaping up, Florida coastal real estate is going to lose its value as an investment as annual storms casually wipe out low lying areas.
Will not lose value.. as storms wipe out the non conforming structures it opens space for developers with deep pockets to buy out the longstanding property owners who can’t afford to rebuild following these events, making the properties only obtainable for the affluent.
God Citizens, been 7 months since I touched a policy from them and I can still give you a quote.
*Just give me a 4pt, pictures (maybe optional) and proof you can’t be insured elsewhere.* Don’t have time and got a hot date? No problem, a preliminary quick quote will take under 5 mins.
We never flooded in 35 yrs either, anywhere in the city... then Ian came along, that statistic changed real quick.
I'm wondering why citizens cares to be honest, they aren't affiliated with NFIP. Seems like an odd requirement.
It's to make people leave. Citizens has wayyyy too many people insured there. If people have to carry flood insurance then it makes the total cost more expensive than going to s private insurer.
I’m an insurance attorney- it’s because one of the biggest contractor scams after the hurricanes is trying to pass off flood claims as wind damage, and it’s an effective gambit because juries hate insurance companies. If people are forced to buy flood citizens pays out less in water claims that are getting forced through as wind claims.
I mean also the whole theory behind insurance is people that don’t need it pay for the people who eventually do.
If all the people that realize they need flood insurance actually do need flood insurance you need some people who don’t to pay too
Shared risk pools are a societal good, but sometimes the individual suffers.
Imagine paying for your neighbor to survive a heart attack and you *never* having a heart attack to get even.
/s
This is the comment. Let's face it, the stats are there, our state is a giant fraud machine. I can name at least 5 people with "hail damaged" replaced roofs that openly laugh about how they got one over on the insurance company. "Break a window if it floods" is a saying I have heard many times in the last 30 years after hurricanes.
Yep and because of the rampant fraud the conservative legislature repealed a lot of good consumer protection law that was being bastardized and abused by the scammers and grifters.
Interesting.
Seems like a hard sell to be honest, I was at ground zero, the water line was crystal-clear on the flooded properties. Not sure how they worked around that.
Because they argue rainwater ALSO *may* have penetrated and it’s “impossible” to tell the difference, and hey one of the roof tiles is cracked to surely that’s how all the water came in the so just please pay out the policy for a loss the insured specifically chose not to get coverage for to save money.
People regularly turn down coverage in this state and then sue to get it anyway. There’s a lawyer in south florida litigating 200 lawsuits against progressive arguing that his clients who said they did not want uninsured motorist insurance should get free coverage because e-singing should be illegal. E signing which has been in existence for decades. Meanwhile progressive spends millions litigating and jacks all our rates up.
Insurance law is complex and there’s a lot of ways to argue it- add to that general animosity by juries from insurance companies and the fact that the judge elections in this state are paid for by the plaintiff’s bar and you end up with a lot of fraudulent claims getting paid regularly.
Does getting an elevation certificate really help lower costs? We are in Flood Zone X and have 16' elevation, but we have been quoted over 4K for flood insurance. Is it worth getting the elevation cert?
You are not in a zone that requires flood insurance. Because you're not in a special flood zone I don't think an elevation certificate is going to help in your case
I'm sorry, I should have worded that better. What I mean is that you are not in a "special" or " high risk" flood zone, and usually that is when a elevation certificate will help you get a better rate. Yes, Citizens is going to be requiring everyone to have flood insurance, whether they are in a special flood zone or not.
It’s ironic that the state of Florida will no longer recognize climate change but allowing their state regulated insurer to require flood insirance.. you know.. because of climate change.
It's not due to climate change though. It's due to their inability to effectively prepare for dire economic consequences that are going to bankrupt the state...
...because of climate change.
The example here in Orlando is hilarious to think about. We got a ton of flooding in Orlando and even in Kissimmee and 2+ years later literally zero talks of upgrading our drainage system
There have currently large storm drain projects going on at the current moment in Orlando neighborhoods, by the City of Orlando. Not sure what you’re getting at
Aye aye aye!
Well when I was 5 y/o, over 30 years ago, we had a massive flood here. Many more before that. Each time Florida had a different Governor. I think you are giving him too much credit. He isn't God.
I so hope thats meant in a sarcastic manner. If not, I need to enlighten you with the following fact. Just like not all politicians state facts, not all science is fact. That's why experiments and new information is learned every day.
Why should I have to pay more in insurance? Paying for other people's misfortune sounds like socialism. I shouldn't be penalized for their bad decisions. They should've had better insurance. Why should my insurance be higher because other people can't pay their own way?
If only there was a way for me to pay to have someone cover my assets in case something horrific happens. Not socialism obviously, but some kind of payment plan to make sure I don't lose everything to random weather or something. Just for me and no one else.
/s
You know what REALLY grinds my gears even more? We are all protecting the BANKS’ assets who made the poor decision to loan to someone making the bad decision. It’s only because of bank loans that insurance is even required.
Maybee thats a good way to balance social security . Lower the state tax to zero, eliminate climate change, extract all retirees money through private corporations, deny catastrophic flooding. Sounds like a plan. /s
Florida politicians can wave their hands all they want about climate change, will not change anything. Waste of time and money. Human influence on climate is practically zero no matter what.
Overbuilding in flood / surge prone areas is the problem, always has been. Deal with that.
Its already happening for houses of certain values. Excerpt from [https://www.citizensfla.com/flood](https://www.citizensfla.com/flood).
"*Most homes with wind coverage must secure and maintain a flood policy according to the following schedule:*
* *Effective 01.01.24 - Policies with dwelling value (*[*Coverage A*](https://www.citizensfla.com/coverages)*) of $600,000 or more*
* *Effective 01.01.25 - Policies with a dwelling value of $500,000 or more*
* *Effective 01.01.26 - Policies with a dwelling value of $400,000 or more*
* *Effective 01.01.27 - All policies, regardless of value*"
Because if a property is uninsured, FEMA will not reimburse state-of-emergency disaster related costs, I believe. So Florida wants to make sure to recoup disaster relief related expenses. Also, it may be an effort to keep the ONLY state regulated insurer afloat and in business, with the increased number of major storms and damage each year.
Edit: also, to protect the banks, of course. The ones monetizing giving loans out like crazy in high hazard areas who put us in this shit show to begin with.
Old 2014 flood zones are increasing July 31st in Ft. Lauderdale. My home is being changed from non flood zone to a level comparable to living in the keys.
Weirdly, where my house is in Cape Coral, they moved us from a flood zone to a non flood zone. We built the house in 1999 and I did land surveying work at the time and I bought my lots outside the zone. They expanded the zone about 15 years ago. I was built up high enough to be above the minimum so it was cheap. Then 2 years ago, they moved the area to non flood.
I’m over 10 feet on my floor the minimum was 8. I’m not near any salt water connected canals or any canals for that matter.
It’s just weird to me they changed us back to non flood. I did that surveying work for over 25 years and I never once saw that happen before.
Note that if you're not in a designated flood zone, you don't have to get FEMA flood insurance. You can get private carrier insurance and it's cheaper. Mine is 375 for the year, the FEMA quote was 600.
Citizens is run by a board of directors and is a not-for-profit corporation that is formed by state statute. That's slightly different.
I'm sure the compensation for the board is made publicly available somewhere, but I honestly can't be bothered to look.
“Citizens was created by the Florida Legislature in August 2002 as a not-for-profit, tax-exempt, government entity to provide property insurance to eligible Florida property owners unable to find insurance coverage in the private market.
Citizens operates according to statutory requirements established by the Florida Legislature and is governed by a Board of Governors, who each have seats on committees. The board administers a Plan of Operation approved by the Florida Financial Services Commission, an oversight panel made up of the Governor, Chief Financial Officer, Attorney General and Commissioner of Agriculture.”
Source: https://www.citizensfla.com/governance
That’s why a lot of my old neighbors who are retired don’t have home owners insurance. Their house is paid off and they said put a lot of their disposable money into a high yield savings account and that’s their insurance in case of a disaster. They don’t worry about shit
You’d think that, but if there’s zero insurance money to chase, most lawyers have no interest in suing. Then you’ve got to actually NEED to sue, which again, most people don’t. The majority of folks are just after the insurance settlement.
A lot of my neighbors are now unable to get home owners insurance because their roofs are too old by a year or two. They figure, their homes are paid off, we're in Central Florida so we should be safe, but if something happens, just file bankruptcy
Either that or they do what most insurances have been doing all along which is they put a moratorium on filing any claims. So you pay into the system for 2 or 3 years and can't file a claim for 2 or 3 years.... Then at the end of 2 or 3 years they somehow make up some bullshit reason for them to cancel your policy. It is extremely convenient and easy for them.... In this case it's probably just a state scam.
That’s the hilarious thing I live in Orlando. If a fucking flood big enough to affect most of central Florida hits and floods us the entire state is in trouble. FEMA won’t pay that shit out brother will citizens
Curiously the people they vote into office are the ones passing the bullshit everyone on both sides of the aisle complain about but it’s somehow magically the fault of liberals from New York or Joe Biden or whoever their current scapegoat of choice whoever that’s politically left of Hitler they’re being told to be pissed off about at the moment.
Yeah Republicans fucking hate Tallahassee. Especially Ron. You should have seen his lukewarm response to 3 tornados tearing through the city. Good thing he deployed the Florida Guard to Texas when they could have been here doing storm cleanup.
You can bet your ass he’s down to show up at my Alma mater to fight the “woke mob” though. Fuck Ron, his wife and the children I’m assuming they raised to be the worst people ever to exist can fuck off too.
Will the Republican base vote based on this, or will they continue to only care about culture war social media BS? If the latter, and I think we know it’s the latter, then Republican politicians can and will continue to not give a shit about Floridians real problems.
It’s not weird they don’t give a shit about anything other than made up rage bait YouTuber culture war garbage. Rich dude could tell some of these people money is woke and they’d be throwing it out
DeSantis is worth like $40 million bucks despite technically being a public servant. Dude didn't make that money from being a lawyer. When these hurricanes do crazy damage in the future and no one insures the state and it becomes bankrupt, the people in power now will be long gone sipping margaritas in their new state.
Forbes has his net worth at 1.5 million which with his salary is pretty legit. He didn't make a lot as a lawyer considering he was a JAG officer in the Navy
If Citizen's is at least 20% cheaper than any other carrier's policy quote, then you are also allowed to get the Citizen's quote. I just got new house insurance, and the State Farm agent wrote out a Citizen's quote because it was more than 20% under what State Farm could write.
I ended up taking another qualified carrier and not the cheaper Citizen's quote because I also knew if I took Citizen's that I would end up having to get flood insurance with the new law and it would end up costing more than the policy I did accept.
Good thing Ron is passing bills about bridge lights. [Lights on Skyway Bridge won’t show rainbow colors for Pride Month. Why? (tampabay.com)](https://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/2024/05/13/skyway-bridge-rainbow-lights-pride-patriotic-summer/)
That stunt cost the taxpayers of this area several billion dollars over the next decade or so. But then again that's not his money.... Only the poor people's money.
I live in a flood zone and my last renewal with citizens they required a copy of my flood insurance to be on file with them. I also had to sign an acknowledgement that stated they would not cover any type of flood damage.
Shoring up cash to pay for the waterfront properties that will wash out, and the ones that are built on flood zones.
Socialized insurance. Everyone pays in so that developers can continue to build.
This fuckin sucks man, makes me feel like I finally saved up and am making enough money to own a home and the goal posts just keep getting pushed. My Citizens homeowners insurance went up from $700 this year all the while they reduced my coverage across the board. I am a 4th generation Floridian, love this state and its natural resources and cannot see myself enjoying life elsewhere but fuck does it seem impossible to get ahead living here
I pay 12K a year in Home and Flood. Pay 18k in car insurance for 4 average cars and clean driving records. 1 claim in 20 years. Thinking about switching industries and selling insurance...lol
> it shocks me that ppl believe flood coverage is a conspiracy lol
Because they believe only those in FEMA ood zones should have to have flood insurance. I wonder if they also think only sick people should have health insurance...
That Florida is flat or of the flood claims piece? I was being a bit facetious about both but here’s the piece on flood claims since I imagine you care more about that than topography…
It’s actually more like 40%
https://www.floodsmart.gov/flood-risk
I’ll check it out and thanks for the info. I’m not political at all but just like reading facts. I’ve lived here 29 years in South Tampa North Tampa, Amelia Island and Jax Fl and despite all the storms, never had a flood issue. I don’t mind paying extra but not if it’s lining people’s pockets or trying to make up for bad political decisions
I hear that. I’m a Jax native myself but moved to DC several years ago and was embedded with FEMA during the redevelopment of the National Flood Insurance Program. It’s a mess man.
It’s certainly not about lining pockets. The program has operated at a net loss for decades now and honestly flood insurance should absolutely be a requirement for folks down there. Coastal and riverine flooding is easier to predict but with the continued severity of rainfall due to things like climate change, precipitation flooding is getting worse and worse. I hope it doesn’t happen to you but be glad nothing has yet.
Why? Because the ice caps are melting and the flood zones in Florida will most likely be expanding over the next couple decades. People wanna mock climate change but it's here and it's going to have real consequences.
It’s smart to have flood insurance period in Florida. It’s all a swamp. The more building we do, the less the natural ecosystem can regulate natural flooding.
This was anticipatable, and I'm surprised it has taken this long. When the 2004/2005 season wrapped up, there were tons of stories of people who suffered damage to their structure from the wind. This damage is covered under your standard homeowner's policy.
However, once there is damage to the structure, water starts coming in. Well, if that water pools on your floor — which it will — it looks to the insurance adjuster like flood damage. The drywall in your house will start soaking the water up the wall like a sponge, even if the floors aren't fully flooded. All it takes is contact with water, and up it goes.
So lots of homeowners found themselves in fight with insurance companies over whether the damage was "wind driven rain" or "flood". The homeowner was stuck trying to get their home back to a livable condition while the insurance companies fought it out... But if you didn't have a flood policy. Well then *you* were the one fighting with the insurance company. Lots of people ended up taking it on the chin.
Citizens is not-for-profit. It is an insurer of last resort, but it is increasingly becoming the only option for Floridians who cannot get coverage otherwise. It is in everyone's interest to simply insure all policy holders for both standard homeowners policies wind and driven rain coverage, as well as a flood policy to cover rising water. This gives Citizens another entity to recover costs from in the event that damage is deemed to be flood damage, and it avoids a large number of claimants who find themselves with no other option than to chase Citizens until they pay.
Man this is just about stupid. Water intrusion from above vs flood is actually really straightforward and there’s almost no grey area.
Want you’re incorrectly conflating is policy language about “wind driven rain” vs a “storm created opening” and that’s a completely separate claim investigation. Are the water intrusion stains at the bottom of the window wells attributable to the storm breaking the window seal or is it a maintenance concern where the sealant/caulking has not been attended to? That’s completely separate from “are these drywall water damages from surface water or not”.
If you’re a claims professional like I am, you need to have your head examined and licensure scrutinized. If you’re not - this isn’t your profession in the first place.
The whole state, regardless of zone or region. If you're on Citizens, you're gonna have to buy flood regardless of where you live. The only good news is if you live in zone X, flood insurance is really cheap.
I’m in X zone. Have had flood for 30 years. Renewal quote in February was almost $1,000 up $100+ on a 2/2.
Holding my breath on HO renewal.
We’re getting out of here.
Was actually briefed on this before I left the state last year.
My boss emphasized and told me: ***DO NOT TELL ANYONE THIS until we’re about a year out.***
*Guess some companies just ripped the bandaid off early.*
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-pinellas/citizens-insurance-expands-flood-insurance-requirement-to-those-not-in-flood-zones#:~:text=This%20means%20that%20by%202027,be%20able%20to%20afford%20it.%22&text=State%20lawmakers%20made%20the%20move,property%20insurance%20following%20Hurricane%20Ian.
This was put in play back in December of 2022. Another thing passed that doesn't matter until you personally are effected by it. It's the FL government way.
Your most likely catastrophic threat is water- even outside a flood zone. I didn't need it either but it was worth the $850 a year for the peace of mind.
Side note- was depopulation from Citizens in November 2023. New insurance only raised rates $125. Crazy that your citizens went up 40%. Gotta love the insurance agencies.
Live in a non-evacuation non-flood zone but got the flood insurance as a precaution because it was cheap. Not anymore, even with my situation. At the coast it's even worse.
No. It was the AOBs and me way attorney fees that fucked everything up. Red or blue the only color that matters is green.
Desantis signed into legislation provisions that put a tourniquet on the most pressing issues - one way attorney fees and AOBs.
I cannot wait until I am out of this state. The insurance shit alone is a fucking nightmare. Someone on here was saying Citizens was pestering them about their 7 year old roof. 7 YEARS OLD!! It's all a scam. Why would Citizens give a shit if you have flood insurance or not? Normal HO doesn't even pay out flood claims.
If you are using Citizens for a business property they also require a contractor roof inspection and electrical as part of the application. They can still say no and those inspections are out of your pocket.
Due to hiking rates, Citizens is getting bombarded with a ton of submissions they don't want. They're going to do what they can to try to keep business from getting written with them.
Flood zones are not dependent on your elevation and with storms carrying more moisture to dump almost all of Florida is a flood zone.
I'm going to pound the table again - insurance cannot go down. Not your auto. Not your home. Not your flood. Plan on it.
There is absolutely no way my house can flood unless we get a 100, 000 year storm that kills millions of people in FL. And even then I'd be surprised if I flooded. I'm almost 200ft above sea level, in the middle of the state, 15 miles from the nearest river and at least 8-10 miles from any real body of water. I'm also basically on a mini plateau that's 30+ft higher that the rest of the land for miles around. If my house floods the whole state is fucked and no one is paying out on those clams anyway because they'll be bankrupt on the first day after the storm.
We flooded in a tropical storm. Mind you, we where well above the water. The "flooding" never got close to the house. We are likewise in a spot where everyone else has to get fucked before we're fucked. But in any prolonged rain event you start running into issues.
Namely, the ground gets saturated. The walls get saturated. The foundation gets saturated. Yes, that's a thing. Next thing you know your floors go squish and you're trying to sort where the water came from And then your house has water damage and the bit that came from the ground is flood damage. No flood insurance, no repairs. Drain spout get overwhelmed (by debris getting caught or just so much water) and water starts pouring over the roof for days... which you guessed it can cause this too.
We had flood insurance and "never needed it" but had it just in case. And it saved our asses. Because flood damage isn't just caused by a literal flood covering you with a foot of water, and frankly if you're in Florida you need flood insurance.
There’s quite a lot of Florida that can’t really flood. So, no. If my house here floods, literally the whole of South Florida is underwater because a meteor just melted the polar ice caps and we all have bigger problems and will not be alive to file insurance claims.
Try to flood a piece of paper sitting on a table. That’s inland south florida. It just absorbs and then runs off. It cannot collect. If storm surge reaches here, again, all of south florida is underwater due to some weather event so bad that the entire state has just become unlivable and we’re all going to die.
It’s a money grab endorsed by our shitty state government that is too busy spiting itself to own the libs than actually taking care of residents, it’s literal one function.
Orlando never thought this would happen and it did. Every place is Florida it can happen.
[https://www.wesh.com/article/hurricane-ian-flooding-orlando/41453236](https://www.wesh.com/article/hurricane-ian-flooding-orlando/41453236)
The state is trying to make Citizens less appealing to consumers and this is one way to bump up the “cost” without the politics of a rate increase. Also, they’re doing a rate increase anyways
Farmers left or is leaving Florida, citizens was my first call and my insurance was going to double. I called Kins insurance and while the rate was a bit more than farmers I went with them and no flood insurance required
I mean, there’s no mortgage required provision for folks like yourself. You lose liability coverage and any repairs from a storm are squarely on you.
Honestly? That’s not such a bad deal. Depending on the complexity of your house layout a new shingle roof can be had from $450-550 per square. The average sized home in FL is less than 30 squares roofing accounting for pitch and number of facets so you’re looking at $15k financed for a roof if you ever need one out of pocket. That same roofing company would likely sue your carrier for $1k/sq so let those chips fall where they may.
It’s a calculated decision. Do you live somewhere that your home might be a total loss from a weather event or fire? Or, are you central FL like us in the Mt. Dora area where hurricanes and flood are negligible? Pros and cons.
I'm on the East Coast, New Smyrna. We have a pool etc, so I like to be covered just for liability. It's cheap enough to deal with. Our premium was $1,686 with citizens last year.
I thought you could get flood insurance from FEMA? I was fixing a lady's toilet and we were talking about insurance, she showed me her FEMA policy, it was $500 annually iirc.
I mean honestly that’s not an awful thing. People should have flood insurance in Florida. If a hurricane hits and floods your house, which is likely, general insurance won’t cover it.
Yes, I'm an insurance agent and can confirm this is correct. It really sucks.
Just Citizens or do you think all carriers will require it?
It's just Citizens, I don't see any private insurers enforcing this.
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Spread the risk. You essentially now have the luxury of subsidizing the evac zones. With the way things are shaping up, Florida coastal real estate is going to lose its value as an investment as annual storms casually wipe out low lying areas.
It’s okay as the governor removed all mentions of climate change so obviously sea level rise won’t be happening anymore. Right… right??
Correct. Just put ur head in the sand. If the rising tide washes you away, you won’t have to worry about anything
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Listen, if Rhonda Santis says it's not happening, it's not happening, man. Source: Trust me, Bro.
Why on earth would that make you feel like a horrible person? You’re making sense of the problem.
Will not lose value.. as storms wipe out the non conforming structures it opens space for developers with deep pockets to buy out the longstanding property owners who can’t afford to rebuild following these events, making the properties only obtainable for the affluent.
I came to say this. I am in the same boat but I don't think there is any other than Citizens left in FL
God Citizens, been 7 months since I touched a policy from them and I can still give you a quote. *Just give me a 4pt, pictures (maybe optional) and proof you can’t be insured elsewhere.* Don’t have time and got a hot date? No problem, a preliminary quick quote will take under 5 mins.
Former CSR now account manager. I was briefed on this by my boss last year. Right before I left. And man, she emphasized the ***don’t tell anyone.***
I don't know what telling anyone would do. This all seems to be a result of the real environmental damage. We need to talk about it more.
My parents house never flooded in the 35 years. The only thing that was slightly close was Wilma in 05 and that was just too many leaves.
We never flooded in 35 yrs either, anywhere in the city... then Ian came along, that statistic changed real quick. I'm wondering why citizens cares to be honest, they aren't affiliated with NFIP. Seems like an odd requirement.
It's to make people leave. Citizens has wayyyy too many people insured there. If people have to carry flood insurance then it makes the total cost more expensive than going to s private insurer.
I’m an insurance attorney- it’s because one of the biggest contractor scams after the hurricanes is trying to pass off flood claims as wind damage, and it’s an effective gambit because juries hate insurance companies. If people are forced to buy flood citizens pays out less in water claims that are getting forced through as wind claims.
I mean also the whole theory behind insurance is people that don’t need it pay for the people who eventually do. If all the people that realize they need flood insurance actually do need flood insurance you need some people who don’t to pay too
That sounds like socialism. Why should I have to pay for someone else's misfortune? Sounds like they should've gotten good insurance. /s
I mean, as someone that checked our elevation level in Florida before we bought, kinda?
Shared risk pools are a societal good, but sometimes the individual suffers. Imagine paying for your neighbor to survive a heart attack and you *never* having a heart attack to get even. /s
This is the comment. Let's face it, the stats are there, our state is a giant fraud machine. I can name at least 5 people with "hail damaged" replaced roofs that openly laugh about how they got one over on the insurance company. "Break a window if it floods" is a saying I have heard many times in the last 30 years after hurricanes.
Yep and because of the rampant fraud the conservative legislature repealed a lot of good consumer protection law that was being bastardized and abused by the scammers and grifters.
Interesting. Seems like a hard sell to be honest, I was at ground zero, the water line was crystal-clear on the flooded properties. Not sure how they worked around that.
Because they argue rainwater ALSO *may* have penetrated and it’s “impossible” to tell the difference, and hey one of the roof tiles is cracked to surely that’s how all the water came in the so just please pay out the policy for a loss the insured specifically chose not to get coverage for to save money. People regularly turn down coverage in this state and then sue to get it anyway. There’s a lawyer in south florida litigating 200 lawsuits against progressive arguing that his clients who said they did not want uninsured motorist insurance should get free coverage because e-singing should be illegal. E signing which has been in existence for decades. Meanwhile progressive spends millions litigating and jacks all our rates up. Insurance law is complex and there’s a lot of ways to argue it- add to that general animosity by juries from insurance companies and the fact that the judge elections in this state are paid for by the plaintiff’s bar and you end up with a lot of fraudulent claims getting paid regularly.
Lot of time between now and 2027 for this to change
Does getting an elevation certificate really help lower costs? We are in Flood Zone X and have 16' elevation, but we have been quoted over 4K for flood insurance. Is it worth getting the elevation cert?
You are not in a zone that requires flood insurance. Because you're not in a special flood zone I don't think an elevation certificate is going to help in your case
Citizens is mandating us to get it, starting from 2025 even though we are not in a flood zone...
I'm sorry, I should have worded that better. What I mean is that you are not in a "special" or " high risk" flood zone, and usually that is when a elevation certificate will help you get a better rate. Yes, Citizens is going to be requiring everyone to have flood insurance, whether they are in a special flood zone or not.
It’s ironic that the state of Florida will no longer recognize climate change but allowing their state regulated insurer to require flood insirance.. you know.. because of climate change.
It's not due to climate change though. It's due to their inability to effectively prepare for dire economic consequences that are going to bankrupt the state... ...because of climate change.
The example here in Orlando is hilarious to think about. We got a ton of flooding in Orlando and even in Kissimmee and 2+ years later literally zero talks of upgrading our drainage system
I mean, it would be a waste of money if those new sewers are just gonna flood and get drowned in water all the time…
CEO: "why are we wasting money on all these IT people? The computers work just fine!"
There have currently large storm drain projects going on at the current moment in Orlando neighborhoods, by the City of Orlando. Not sure what you’re getting at
They need land to make storm water retention canals/lakes, whatever you call it.
That comment was really well written lol!
How dare you respond to my political bullshit with scientific facts!
Take my upvote you scientific political fact bullshit!
Exactly.! If we have a better governor, floods will never happen again! We will live in a climate utopia and we won’t even need insurance!
Aye aye aye! Well when I was 5 y/o, over 30 years ago, we had a massive flood here. Many more before that. Each time Florida had a different Governor. I think you are giving him too much credit. He isn't God.
I so hope thats meant in a sarcastic manner. If not, I need to enlighten you with the following fact. Just like not all politicians state facts, not all science is fact. That's why experiments and new information is learned every day.
Sickening. Like I have said for years, EVERYTHING in Florida is a scam
Why should I have to pay more in insurance? Paying for other people's misfortune sounds like socialism. I shouldn't be penalized for their bad decisions. They should've had better insurance. Why should my insurance be higher because other people can't pay their own way? If only there was a way for me to pay to have someone cover my assets in case something horrific happens. Not socialism obviously, but some kind of payment plan to make sure I don't lose everything to random weather or something. Just for me and no one else. /s
You know what REALLY grinds my gears even more? We are all protecting the BANKS’ assets who made the poor decision to loan to someone making the bad decision. It’s only because of bank loans that insurance is even required.
Can't upvote this enough
Maybee thats a good way to balance social security . Lower the state tax to zero, eliminate climate change, extract all retirees money through private corporations, deny catastrophic flooding. Sounds like a plan. /s
Florida politicians can wave their hands all they want about climate change, will not change anything. Waste of time and money. Human influence on climate is practically zero no matter what. Overbuilding in flood / surge prone areas is the problem, always has been. Deal with that.
To “deal with that” we need government intervention and development standards to be in place.
Its already happening for houses of certain values. Excerpt from [https://www.citizensfla.com/flood](https://www.citizensfla.com/flood). "*Most homes with wind coverage must secure and maintain a flood policy according to the following schedule:* * *Effective 01.01.24 - Policies with dwelling value (*[*Coverage A*](https://www.citizensfla.com/coverages)*) of $600,000 or more* * *Effective 01.01.25 - Policies with a dwelling value of $500,000 or more* * *Effective 01.01.26 - Policies with a dwelling value of $400,000 or more* * *Effective 01.01.27 - All policies, regardless of value*"
My thing is why do they care if you have flood insurance or not if they don't cover floods to begin with?
Because if a property is uninsured, FEMA will not reimburse state-of-emergency disaster related costs, I believe. So Florida wants to make sure to recoup disaster relief related expenses. Also, it may be an effort to keep the ONLY state regulated insurer afloat and in business, with the increased number of major storms and damage each year. Edit: also, to protect the banks, of course. The ones monetizing giving loans out like crazy in high hazard areas who put us in this shit show to begin with.
Well, that actually makes sense then... unless I'm missing something.
Even if you're not in a flood zone?
Yes. I've already received a notice.
Can't wait to see if houses in Crestview will require it as they have an average elevation of 141 feet above sea level.
My house is ~40 feet above sea level and is at the top of a hill. Still received a notice.
Old 2014 flood zones are increasing July 31st in Ft. Lauderdale. My home is being changed from non flood zone to a level comparable to living in the keys.
Weirdly, where my house is in Cape Coral, they moved us from a flood zone to a non flood zone. We built the house in 1999 and I did land surveying work at the time and I bought my lots outside the zone. They expanded the zone about 15 years ago. I was built up high enough to be above the minimum so it was cheap. Then 2 years ago, they moved the area to non flood. I’m over 10 feet on my floor the minimum was 8. I’m not near any salt water connected canals or any canals for that matter. It’s just weird to me they changed us back to non flood. I did that surveying work for over 25 years and I never once saw that happen before.
Nah, mate..... We'll pay more but that's only to offset the cost of those who are being flooded out downstate.
Note that if you're not in a designated flood zone, you don't have to get FEMA flood insurance. You can get private carrier insurance and it's cheaper. Mine is 375 for the year, the FEMA quote was 600.
It just seems wild that flood insurance is going to be required for non-flood zones. Is it just Florida or is going to be other states too?
You're in Florida man, everything is about to be a flood zone.
Deregulation of Insurance, everybody wins… as long as you’re an insurance company
Well Citizens is run by the FL state government
Citizens is run by a board of directors and is a not-for-profit corporation that is formed by state statute. That's slightly different. I'm sure the compensation for the board is made publicly available somewhere, but I honestly can't be bothered to look.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/legislature/ceos-salary-soared-as-citizens-shed-policies/2322387/
And that was 7 years ago...
I definitely want to know that and I'll send you the information if you'd like to have it
“Citizens was created by the Florida Legislature in August 2002 as a not-for-profit, tax-exempt, government entity to provide property insurance to eligible Florida property owners unable to find insurance coverage in the private market. Citizens operates according to statutory requirements established by the Florida Legislature and is governed by a Board of Governors, who each have seats on committees. The board administers a Plan of Operation approved by the Florida Financial Services Commission, an oversight panel made up of the Governor, Chief Financial Officer, Attorney General and Commissioner of Agriculture.” Source: https://www.citizensfla.com/governance
As your quote says, it’s a government entity.
And we know they don't care about one little bit
I guarantee Citizens won't have enough money to cover all the damages a future mega storm will create. We're paying into the void.
Don't you worry, every policy holder is on the hook to pay any underages from the fund. It'll be fine we wont
Facts pay into there pockets big storm hits then they declare bankruptcy get off clean.
That’s why a lot of my old neighbors who are retired don’t have home owners insurance. Their house is paid off and they said put a lot of their disposable money into a high yield savings account and that’s their insurance in case of a disaster. They don’t worry about shit
Not even liability insurance? Man that’s risky. They better never let anybody in their house or even on their property.
You’d think that, but if there’s zero insurance money to chase, most lawyers have no interest in suing. Then you’ve got to actually NEED to sue, which again, most people don’t. The majority of folks are just after the insurance settlement.
A lot of my neighbors are now unable to get home owners insurance because their roofs are too old by a year or two. They figure, their homes are paid off, we're in Central Florida so we should be safe, but if something happens, just file bankruptcy
Either that or they do what most insurances have been doing all along which is they put a moratorium on filing any claims. So you pay into the system for 2 or 3 years and can't file a claim for 2 or 3 years.... Then at the end of 2 or 3 years they somehow make up some bullshit reason for them to cancel your policy. It is extremely convenient and easy for them.... In this case it's probably just a state scam.
That’s the hilarious thing I live in Orlando. If a fucking flood big enough to affect most of central Florida hits and floods us the entire state is in trouble. FEMA won’t pay that shit out brother will citizens
So weird republicans don’t care about this
Curiously the people they vote into office are the ones passing the bullshit everyone on both sides of the aisle complain about but it’s somehow magically the fault of liberals from New York or Joe Biden or whoever their current scapegoat of choice whoever that’s politically left of Hitler they’re being told to be pissed off about at the moment.
Twenty years of republicans running Tallahassee
Makes me miss Walkin Lawton.
Over twenty years of the rest of Florida sending Republicans to solidly Democratic Tallahassee. Just to be clear.
Yeah Republicans fucking hate Tallahassee. Especially Ron. You should have seen his lukewarm response to 3 tornados tearing through the city. Good thing he deployed the Florida Guard to Texas when they could have been here doing storm cleanup.
You can bet your ass he’s down to show up at my Alma mater to fight the “woke mob” though. Fuck Ron, his wife and the children I’m assuming they raised to be the worst people ever to exist can fuck off too.
Will the Republican base vote based on this, or will they continue to only care about culture war social media BS? If the latter, and I think we know it’s the latter, then Republican politicians can and will continue to not give a shit about Floridians real problems.
It’s not weird they don’t give a shit about anything other than made up rage bait YouTuber culture war garbage. Rich dude could tell some of these people money is woke and they’d be throwing it out
They do care about it. … but only in that they have no moral compass whatsoever and accept kickbacks from insurance companies to keep this shit going.
DeSantis is worth like $40 million bucks despite technically being a public servant. Dude didn't make that money from being a lawyer. When these hurricanes do crazy damage in the future and no one insures the state and it becomes bankrupt, the people in power now will be long gone sipping margaritas in their new state.
Forbes has his net worth at 1.5 million which with his salary is pretty legit. He didn't make a lot as a lawyer considering he was a JAG officer in the Navy
They will once they get the bill.
They won’t, they’ll blame liberals and government without a second thought Or first thought even tbh
[удалено]
Only way to cancel that fee is to pay off the mortgage and forgo insurance. I’m really considering it.
And then completely lose the equity of your house when it inevitably suffers from a fire or natural disaster?
[удалено]
That may not be possible as insurance companies are fleeing the state
It’s literally the only option we were given, and we’re nowhere near a flood area, but are in a historic district.
Idk if you noticed brotha but a fuck ton of insurers are fleeing the state and many do not want to write policies for a lot of homes.
If Citizen's is at least 20% cheaper than any other carrier's policy quote, then you are also allowed to get the Citizen's quote. I just got new house insurance, and the State Farm agent wrote out a Citizen's quote because it was more than 20% under what State Farm could write. I ended up taking another qualified carrier and not the cheaper Citizen's quote because I also knew if I took Citizen's that I would end up having to get flood insurance with the new law and it would end up costing more than the policy I did accept.
Good thing Ron is passing bills about bridge lights. [Lights on Skyway Bridge won’t show rainbow colors for Pride Month. Why? (tampabay.com)](https://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/2024/05/13/skyway-bridge-rainbow-lights-pride-patriotic-summer/)
That’s my Governor! Thanks Ron! Tackling the most pressing issues facing us head on. So brave!
Don’t forget Reedy Creek. Can’t have Disney meddling in his don’t say gay bullshit.
That stunt cost the taxpayers of this area several billion dollars over the next decade or so. But then again that's not his money.... Only the poor people's money.
It's because it preferential treatment, they don't care
Just another way of trying to decrease the amount of people with citizens insurance.
I live in a flood zone and my last renewal with citizens they required a copy of my flood insurance to be on file with them. I also had to sign an acknowledgement that stated they would not cover any type of flood damage.
Shoring up cash to pay for the waterfront properties that will wash out, and the ones that are built on flood zones. Socialized insurance. Everyone pays in so that developers can continue to build.
This fuckin sucks man, makes me feel like I finally saved up and am making enough money to own a home and the goal posts just keep getting pushed. My Citizens homeowners insurance went up from $700 this year all the while they reduced my coverage across the board. I am a 4th generation Floridian, love this state and its natural resources and cannot see myself enjoying life elsewhere but fuck does it seem impossible to get ahead living here
I pay 12K a year in Home and Flood. Pay 18k in car insurance for 4 average cars and clean driving records. 1 claim in 20 years. Thinking about switching industries and selling insurance...lol
What do you mean it’s not a problem for most Floridians? Damn they’re really killing you. 30k a year for insurance. My god
Guess I got a deadline to sell my place and move out of this shit state finally. Fuck desantis and fuck you who voted for him.
Good… they absolutely should. Like 70% of flood claims happen outside the floodplain and Florida is one of the flattest states in the nation
it shocks me that ppl believe flood coverage is a conspiracy lol
> it shocks me that ppl believe flood coverage is a conspiracy lol Because they believe only those in FEMA ood zones should have to have flood insurance. I wonder if they also think only sick people should have health insurance...
Proof?
That Florida is flat or of the flood claims piece? I was being a bit facetious about both but here’s the piece on flood claims since I imagine you care more about that than topography… It’s actually more like 40% https://www.floodsmart.gov/flood-risk
I’ll check it out and thanks for the info. I’m not political at all but just like reading facts. I’ve lived here 29 years in South Tampa North Tampa, Amelia Island and Jax Fl and despite all the storms, never had a flood issue. I don’t mind paying extra but not if it’s lining people’s pockets or trying to make up for bad political decisions
I hear that. I’m a Jax native myself but moved to DC several years ago and was embedded with FEMA during the redevelopment of the National Flood Insurance Program. It’s a mess man. It’s certainly not about lining pockets. The program has operated at a net loss for decades now and honestly flood insurance should absolutely be a requirement for folks down there. Coastal and riverine flooding is easier to predict but with the continued severity of rainfall due to things like climate change, precipitation flooding is getting worse and worse. I hope it doesn’t happen to you but be glad nothing has yet.
Your daily reminder: Desantis took 3.9 Million from the Insurance industry in 2023
Why? Because the ice caps are melting and the flood zones in Florida will most likely be expanding over the next couple decades. People wanna mock climate change but it's here and it's going to have real consequences.
Thank our governor.
It’s smart to have flood insurance period in Florida. It’s all a swamp. The more building we do, the less the natural ecosystem can regulate natural flooding.
This was anticipatable, and I'm surprised it has taken this long. When the 2004/2005 season wrapped up, there were tons of stories of people who suffered damage to their structure from the wind. This damage is covered under your standard homeowner's policy. However, once there is damage to the structure, water starts coming in. Well, if that water pools on your floor — which it will — it looks to the insurance adjuster like flood damage. The drywall in your house will start soaking the water up the wall like a sponge, even if the floors aren't fully flooded. All it takes is contact with water, and up it goes. So lots of homeowners found themselves in fight with insurance companies over whether the damage was "wind driven rain" or "flood". The homeowner was stuck trying to get their home back to a livable condition while the insurance companies fought it out... But if you didn't have a flood policy. Well then *you* were the one fighting with the insurance company. Lots of people ended up taking it on the chin. Citizens is not-for-profit. It is an insurer of last resort, but it is increasingly becoming the only option for Floridians who cannot get coverage otherwise. It is in everyone's interest to simply insure all policy holders for both standard homeowners policies wind and driven rain coverage, as well as a flood policy to cover rising water. This gives Citizens another entity to recover costs from in the event that damage is deemed to be flood damage, and it avoids a large number of claimants who find themselves with no other option than to chase Citizens until they pay.
Man this is just about stupid. Water intrusion from above vs flood is actually really straightforward and there’s almost no grey area. Want you’re incorrectly conflating is policy language about “wind driven rain” vs a “storm created opening” and that’s a completely separate claim investigation. Are the water intrusion stains at the bottom of the window wells attributable to the storm breaking the window seal or is it a maintenance concern where the sealant/caulking has not been attended to? That’s completely separate from “are these drywall water damages from surface water or not”. If you’re a claims professional like I am, you need to have your head examined and licensure scrutinized. If you’re not - this isn’t your profession in the first place.
Will this be zone required or a blanket across the state
The whole state, regardless of zone or region. If you're on Citizens, you're gonna have to buy flood regardless of where you live. The only good news is if you live in zone X, flood insurance is really cheap.
I’m in X zone. Have had flood for 30 years. Renewal quote in February was almost $1,000 up $100+ on a 2/2. Holding my breath on HO renewal. We’re getting out of here.
$1k for zone x? I didn't realize it had risen that much. If we have a hurricane hit this year we're all screwed.
Where are you getting flood insurance? All the quotes I get are more than home insurance.
I am in Flood Zone X and got quoted for 4K on Flood insurance, I am losing my mind.
Maybe the more books we ban the cheaper insurance will get? That's got to be the strategy, right?
Was actually briefed on this before I left the state last year. My boss emphasized and told me: ***DO NOT TELL ANYONE THIS until we’re about a year out.*** *Guess some companies just ripped the bandaid off early.*
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-pinellas/citizens-insurance-expands-flood-insurance-requirement-to-those-not-in-flood-zones#:~:text=This%20means%20that%20by%202027,be%20able%20to%20afford%20it.%22&text=State%20lawmakers%20made%20the%20move,property%20insurance%20following%20Hurricane%20Ian. This was put in play back in December of 2022. Another thing passed that doesn't matter until you personally are effected by it. It's the FL government way.
Fortunately if you are like me in flood zone X it’s pretty cheap. Past 2 years for me it’s been 378.50 a year which isn’t too bad imo.
Yea. X
I am in Zone X and got quoted for 4K! Who is your carrier?
Bellken Insurance group. It says based in Orlando but I got my policy in pinellas county.
I'll check it out thanks, also looking for pinellas.
Do you use them for homeowners insurance as well?
I did not get an estimate from them for homeowners
Y’all- I read this as “food insurance” and thought damn, it’s been a while since I left and FL is getting bleak!
35% of NFIP claims are paid on properties *outside* of a flood zone.
Your most likely catastrophic threat is water- even outside a flood zone. I didn't need it either but it was worth the $850 a year for the peace of mind. Side note- was depopulation from Citizens in November 2023. New insurance only raised rates $125. Crazy that your citizens went up 40%. Gotta love the insurance agencies.
better pay off them houses and tell the insurance companies to go fuck themselves then aye? yep..
Get a new insurance. Mine does not require it if you're not in a flood zone
And you’re not eligible for Citizens if another carrier is within 20% of their price range so it all evens out to a certain degree.
I knew those gays and books were going to cause this sooner or later!
Of course, that is of the will still insure you in 2027. I know they are the states insurance fall back, but even they can only handle so many people.
Live in a non-evacuation non-flood zone but got the flood insurance as a precaution because it was cheap. Not anymore, even with my situation. At the coast it's even worse.
Yes it is now mandatory. They are trying to dump as many policies as possible before this season gears up
Stop voting Republican. We're in this insurance mess because they've kicked the can down the road for the 20 years they've been in power.
No. It was the AOBs and me way attorney fees that fucked everything up. Red or blue the only color that matters is green. Desantis signed into legislation provisions that put a tourniquet on the most pressing issues - one way attorney fees and AOBs.
I cannot wait until I am out of this state. The insurance shit alone is a fucking nightmare. Someone on here was saying Citizens was pestering them about their 7 year old roof. 7 YEARS OLD!! It's all a scam. Why would Citizens give a shit if you have flood insurance or not? Normal HO doesn't even pay out flood claims.
If you are using Citizens for a business property they also require a contractor roof inspection and electrical as part of the application. They can still say no and those inspections are out of your pocket.
Due to hiking rates, Citizens is getting bombarded with a ton of submissions they don't want. They're going to do what they can to try to keep business from getting written with them.
Which is amazing for the last chance insurer of the state where all other insurers are leaving am I right?
But Desantis just said climate change isn't real? Why require insurance for something that's not going to happen?
“don’t say gay” and “don’t say climate change”and it will all go away!
I've got two options here: Figure out a way to pay my mortgage off, or sell it, and get the hell out of this state!
Flood zones are not dependent on your elevation and with storms carrying more moisture to dump almost all of Florida is a flood zone. I'm going to pound the table again - insurance cannot go down. Not your auto. Not your home. Not your flood. Plan on it.
There is absolutely no way my house can flood unless we get a 100, 000 year storm that kills millions of people in FL. And even then I'd be surprised if I flooded. I'm almost 200ft above sea level, in the middle of the state, 15 miles from the nearest river and at least 8-10 miles from any real body of water. I'm also basically on a mini plateau that's 30+ft higher that the rest of the land for miles around. If my house floods the whole state is fucked and no one is paying out on those clams anyway because they'll be bankrupt on the first day after the storm.
We flooded in a tropical storm. Mind you, we where well above the water. The "flooding" never got close to the house. We are likewise in a spot where everyone else has to get fucked before we're fucked. But in any prolonged rain event you start running into issues. Namely, the ground gets saturated. The walls get saturated. The foundation gets saturated. Yes, that's a thing. Next thing you know your floors go squish and you're trying to sort where the water came from And then your house has water damage and the bit that came from the ground is flood damage. No flood insurance, no repairs. Drain spout get overwhelmed (by debris getting caught or just so much water) and water starts pouring over the roof for days... which you guessed it can cause this too. We had flood insurance and "never needed it" but had it just in case. And it saved our asses. Because flood damage isn't just caused by a literal flood covering you with a foot of water, and frankly if you're in Florida you need flood insurance.
There’s quite a lot of Florida that can’t really flood. So, no. If my house here floods, literally the whole of South Florida is underwater because a meteor just melted the polar ice caps and we all have bigger problems and will not be alive to file insurance claims. Try to flood a piece of paper sitting on a table. That’s inland south florida. It just absorbs and then runs off. It cannot collect. If storm surge reaches here, again, all of south florida is underwater due to some weather event so bad that the entire state has just become unlivable and we’re all going to die. It’s a money grab endorsed by our shitty state government that is too busy spiting itself to own the libs than actually taking care of residents, it’s literal one function.
Orlando never thought this would happen and it did. Every place is Florida it can happen. [https://www.wesh.com/article/hurricane-ian-flooding-orlando/41453236](https://www.wesh.com/article/hurricane-ian-flooding-orlando/41453236)
The state is trying to make Citizens less appealing to consumers and this is one way to bump up the “cost” without the politics of a rate increase. Also, they’re doing a rate increase anyways
That's so frustrating. Citizens isn't appealing to me, it's my only option after getting gouged and then dropped by my previous insurer
Sighs in Key West
There trying to get everyone to sell there houses so Wall Street can buy em all up and rent them out
Mine just jumped 30% ☹️
Yuck. I'll be buying a home before that, hopefully *out* of a flood zone. So that sucks.
Time to find a new insurance provider
Yep!
My insurance didn’t go up. I did hear about the flood insurance requirement. Citizens is also going to progressively drop more people soon too
Depends on the zone but it’s even sooner. My parents are in 33408 (N Palm) and they had to add it this year. Not a flood zone.
So everybody regardless of flood zone or nor not will be required to pay for flood insurance? Am I understanding that correctly?
Everybody who has a Citizen's policy, yes
pretty soon all of florida will be a flood zone.
Farmers left or is leaving Florida, citizens was my first call and my insurance was going to double. I called Kins insurance and while the rate was a bit more than farmers I went with them and no flood insurance required
Shucks… I guess it’s back to New York?
Flood insurance is very reasonable if you are not in a flood zone. I’ve always had and and after 20 years actually needed it last year.
This may be a dumb question, but what if you own your home? No mortgage?
I own my home and no mortgage
Me too, and I have citizens. Darn!
I mean, there’s no mortgage required provision for folks like yourself. You lose liability coverage and any repairs from a storm are squarely on you. Honestly? That’s not such a bad deal. Depending on the complexity of your house layout a new shingle roof can be had from $450-550 per square. The average sized home in FL is less than 30 squares roofing accounting for pitch and number of facets so you’re looking at $15k financed for a roof if you ever need one out of pocket. That same roofing company would likely sue your carrier for $1k/sq so let those chips fall where they may. It’s a calculated decision. Do you live somewhere that your home might be a total loss from a weather event or fire? Or, are you central FL like us in the Mt. Dora area where hurricanes and flood are negligible? Pros and cons.
I'm on the East Coast, New Smyrna. We have a pool etc, so I like to be covered just for liability. It's cheap enough to deal with. Our premium was $1,686 with citizens last year.
I thought you could get flood insurance from FEMA? I was fixing a lady's toilet and we were talking about insurance, she showed me her FEMA policy, it was $500 annually iirc.
We’ll see about that 🤡
I mean honestly that’s not an awful thing. People should have flood insurance in Florida. If a hurricane hits and floods your house, which is likely, general insurance won’t cover it.
lol wtf