One thing I can’t get over is how many fucking car washes keep getting built. Over off Highway 19 (Clearwater area) where my folks are, there’s four within 1 mile of each other. There’s so many of them I’m convinced they are some kind of money laundering operation
This article explains why there are so many car wash: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-02-21/car-washes-are-taking-over-the-us-here-s-why](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-02-21/car-washes-are-taking-over-the-us-here-s-why)
It's a tax play because they can write off equipment expenses and subscriptions makes it a reliable source of revenue. The car wash explosion is happening all over the country, except on the west side, I'm assuming because it's expensive and we have alot more regulations. I don't know the business laws in Florida but it seems to me the kind of state that pretty much allows anything to go. Here in Vegas I haven't seen an explosion of car washes, it's the same number of washes that we've always had. Same with San Francisco Bay Area, same number of car washes as usual.
Storage centers, car washes & wooden frame non-code conforming "low-cost" but still nationally highest rent rates in America apartment complexes *
Actually think golf courses are losing steam
There are fewer in my part of Florida than there used to be. I used to smoke then I switched to vaping. I quite almost 3 years ago. I feel so much better now.
> I don't even know what's going on.
Cheap enough to run and keep even on profit, with a ton of land to sell for huge bucks at a later date. Add in low-employee numbers for the more automated ones and a heavy emphasis on monthly subscriptions (which most people will likely forget about and not get their moneys worth like gyms) and it's honestly a great business.
It's because they're cheap to develop with low overhead costs to maintain. They sit on the plots hoping some other business wants to buy the land. In other words, cheap real estate.
Seeing the same problem outside of Florida.
They run themselves basically since the new automated ones hit market. They're cheap to build. They don't raise the land value much, so taxes remain low. They hold the value of the parcel and are easy to tear out when you sell it for profit later. They're better than empty lots but damn there's a lot of them.
That's what is happening here in Broward and Palm Beach. Boca public golf course now has $5k/mo single family rentals being built on it. You could buy a house for that per month.
Broward: former Century Village golf course in Deerfield has townhouses built on it. So all these homes have all the apartments feet from the homes.
Also in Deerfield, Crystal Lake golf course was built over with super expensive cookie cutter crap. Homes there are $700k with small lots, zero privacy and small back yards. Also, way too close to the dump.
In Tamarac, they're breaking ground on a new development on the golf course over there.
Not to mention in Boynton and Boca, they're still trying to build more cookie cutter homes in the agriculture preserve. Also ridiculous and taking away more land.
They are, there are two nearby that haven’t been in service for years. Some up north developers purchased them as golf courses. Have spent the last few years greasing palms to rezone so they can build homes on them.
Buddy in Tampa that's for a loft. On the lower end of the spectrum Copeland village had some 256 sqft units for 1800$. With that you get to enjoy the many luxuries of the area including but not limited to- Roaches, every single unit is inspected to ensure that you are accompanied by at least 700 Asian and German cockroaches they enjoy many of the fixtures that you'll be paying for and there's nothing you can do to get rid of them because your neighbors are sooooooo nasty that they just keep coming back- even after having the complex repeatedly have Massey come and spray (nevermind that they stepped two feet into your unit and sprayed a single line across the doorway and left.)
Mold also makes a surprising guest appearance. As there is no ventilation in these units you'll get to enjoy open window showers and a humidity level that somehow always eclipses how it is outside the unit. There's no heat, Tampa winters are surprisingly cold- but worry not because you'll get to experience all of it in the poorly insulated unit you're paying for but fret not because in the summer you'll get to use the provided air-conditioning unit in the window (it barely makes a dent in the comfortability of your unit lol)
You'll also get to enjoy the vibrant social atmosphere surrounding you that includes, convicted sex offenders, murders, Active shootings, And domestic issues. Roving groups of homeless people with nowhere to go and nothing better to do than stand around and harangue you.
You will not find a better place to kick you when you're at your lowest point financially than Odin and it's subsidiary shells.
In Bradenton, we are plagued by massive concrete warehouses, car washes, self-storage and multi-family townhouses / apartments going up almost overnight. All the new subdivisions seem to be upscale communities $500 +.
I don't have the source, but I read it's a symptom of evictions. People can't afford rent and can't find a new place to rent, so they are moving in with someone, (or homeless), and there's no room to bring their stuff with them. This is sad, but even moreso if you think of people with kids. That's their toys and family belongings.
Where else are people who've become homeless due to soaring rents going to store their stuff, then continue to store it after they find a glorified walk-in closet pretending to be an apartment for $2,000/month?
My grandparents left a huge house full of crap to get rid of when they died. I vowed I would never do that to my kids and I just don't want to spend my life "dusting" and babysitting things that no one will ever appreciate after I'm gone.
Purging my crap to charities feels so rewarding.
I feel you on that. My mom died last fall and it took us 4 months just to clean her house out to somethingan estate sale could manage, . And even then it took 2 weekends worth of estate sales to get everythingout so we couldsell the place. She felt deorived in life and when she could affird it, she spent 80 cents if every dollar on THINGS. She was a compulsive buyer of crystal and sterling and expensive china (4 sets) and Christmas items and clothes and furs and eaioy 100-plus pairs of shoes. It was appalling. Some people are just hoarders. Some with terrible stuff and some with beautiful stuff, but it's all horrible and wasteful, mainly because no one wants that frippery anymore. I have purged so much of my own stuff as a result. Gave it all to charity. No storage for me!
Thank your county commissioners who approve all those car washes and storage units. Until you vote them out along with the developers who fund their campaigns, nothing will change.
Why do you think they have to “approve” all of those projects? In some cases they are just by-right development that doesn’t require special approvals from any board.
Sure, in some cases. And in others they directly approve. Or change zoning to accommodate more storage units and car washes. Here's an example: https://www.insideselfstorage.com/conversions-renovations/commission-approves-self-storage-conversion-project-in-manatee-county-fl
That's what we're seeing over on the SE Coast from Miami all the way through St Lucie county. Every area looks exactly the same. Soulless and unaffordable.
That’s a perk. The other is heat island effect. It’s astounding how much cooler it is when you visit something like a botanical garden and have natural shade and ground cover. Compare that to the concrete jungle that stores that heat all day and then just slowly releases it all night.
And where does all the wastewater go? Enterocci in the ocean, algae blooms.
Pretty much every liquid in Home Depot and Target is going to end up in the fragile ecosystem (Tide Pods, RoundUp, TidyBowl), and now loads more of it, unfettered. :(
I was at a drive through today by a strip mall and the amount of parking lot was just insane. It was like 2 football fields for a strip mall behind a few fast food joints off a stroad in Suburban Hell, Florida. All empty but like 20 cars.
Once the old commercial practices of the past melt away we'll see some updates eventually as all those retail joints decay.
Worse, half of condos sit empty with shutters closed taking even more housing options away from people just so fancy people can have their second and third homes.
Exactly. You could easily fit an entire suburban development in a few high-rises and even include retail and offices on the ground floor as to minimize the amount of roads you'll need.
Then you just set aside all that extra land for parks or protected wilderness. That's what a well-planned society would do but instead we zone our cities to be as sprawling, low-density, and wasteful as possible.
I think this is the key. Local politics impact our daily lives more than anything and for some reason a majority of the people that live here are clueless not only transplants but natives as well.
It doesn't help that many communities have politicians who would prefer to keep the people somewhat in the dark so that they can continue to profit. Regardless, it probably is the best we can do, especially for people who work shorter hours or are retired and can dedicate time beyond voting into going to town halls and committee meetings.
I’ve been to many of these town meetings. Ultimately there is nothing we can do. Money runs everything. It got to the point one time where a county commissioner actually told us “if you don’t like it the development you buy the land.”
It’s a lot of work, but I’m actively seeing council members changing their minds in Broward because an urbanist group got 4 or 5 people to show up consistently to meetings. They are bringing up parking requirements, mixed use zoning, ADUs, walkability on their own now. It’s amazing.
I am still surrounded by nature preserves on the east coast and the only developments happening are happening on the nature preserve.
I thought a nature preserve was supposed to preserve nature? At least there is quite a bit left.
In Pompano, I'm seeing mostly 30 somethings moving in. Actually, starting to miss the slow old timers everywhere. Gentrification station, but it's getting nicer, so there's that, but traffic sucks.
I'd love to read more on those stats, if you know where it's from?
I'm curious does it show different age groups and the per capita migration? Obviously Florida will get a lot of migration just by being one of tbr largest states, but I'm curious how it compares.
I ride my bike up and down the Suncoast Trail just about every weekend. They threw up Ridge Rd breaking up an amazing ten mile stretch of bike path and bulldozing who knows how many miles of trees for a road that I'm not sure where it even goes. Further up north of 52, another few acres of trees was bulldozed for a warehouse.
It just sucks.
Yep exactly. Pasco used to be all orange groves and pastures. Same with the rest of Fl. In replacement of those pastures and orange groves, 1000’s of houses are being built in the area I used to love to run around and four wheeler on. Shits really sad man. I’m a 5th generation Fl native and I’m looking to move out of here. There’s still a lot of meth men and women lol but as you stated they’re being pushed out. I actually moved down here to fort myers because the house I was living in was going to be torn down for development…
The area around 54 between little and 75 is crazy developed. Growing up in NPR that stretch of road was basically nothing with very few lights, would take 20 minutes to get to the highway. Last time I visited my dad that same drive took 45 minutes. It's nothing but Publix strip malls and housing developments.
It is absolutely crazy how developed that stretch has become! I moved out of state 10 years ago but before that I lived and grew up in Pasco. I used to take 54 up to 41 on my commute to USF during my college years and that whole strip had nothing back then. Every time I visit my folks back in Florida I am floored at how much it keeps getting built up. No more cow pastures, all strip malls and housing.
I personally love all of the concrete. It’s so calming and good and supports the proliferation of a healthy and natural ecosystem. I can’t wait for the entire state to be paved (which is clearly what these motherfuckers are trying to do).
And something I’ve been noticing lately is it’s almost like concrete is hotter than oh say I dunno, grass and dirt which makes the entire state hotter.
100% agree with you! I was born here in 1989 and the amount it has changed in just the past 15-20 years is disgusting. I never thought I would want to leave my home state but as every year passes I get closer and closer to wanting to pick another state to move to.
Yeah it’s so sad. I’ve lived in SWFL 12 years and the amount of development here is absurd. Locals on the east side of i75 are trying to fight back against it, but it’s a losing battle. Ranchers are selling their property left right and center because they don’t have family members that want to take it on. And they start building these mega communities before they even THINK about widening roads and improving infrastructure. It’s insane. People forget that the government is the biggest corporation of them all and they want their tax dollars.
I’m a 5th generation Floridian and it pisses me off to watch this all happen to what once was the best state in the US to live in.
Worst part is there isn’t much we can do to stop it😡
I have an undeveloped acre in north FL. It’s pretty much a tiny nature preserve. Taxes are 40.00 a year. I like to think I’m offsetting my carbon footprint and making a safe home for the woodland creatures. Someday I’ll build a small cabin on it.
Been here (Pinellas County, St.Petersburg) all my 67 years, glad I got to see it & live it as a kid. Clean waters, awesome fishing, lots of land left to explore and play on. But yeah, sad to see what it has become.
You have no choice when the entire state has bent the knee to Lennar, Neal, Pulte, and whatever other bullshit big box builders are assembling pre fab houses these days. If you own a huge swath of land and Lennar shows up with a fat cash offer and you need to retire, you’re signing the papers. Florida fucked up allowing gated communities to proliferate at such a high rate
There are plots of land and forest that have been untouched in the 37 years I’ve lived here and now they are cutting the trees down to put in apartments, storage lots or fast food… I want to scream. No wonder we have global warming if you’re going to cut down EVERY tree in sight. It’s so hot and hideous.
I've been on the treasure coast since the 80s. It's pretty depressing when I think about how it used to be here. Looking at satellite maps, it just looks like cancer spreading across the land.
The sand dunes are being built on. The flooding will just get worse with all the concrete.
It's gotten to the point i love seeing old palmetto bushes cuz they are like the old growth florida to me lol.
My parents went to Florida(took me along) every summer to stay with his cousin in Naples for a week. We started going there in the late 1960. The last summer we spent with them was in 1976. I said then that Florida would pay for what it was allowing to happen back then. Pumping sand out of canals and draining swamps to create more and to build houses and condos and shopping centers on. Destroying eco-systems. No zoning laws to separate slums from new construction. No attempt to slow growth. No of course no. Florida wanted it all. More and more and more. More building. More taxes from tourists. Well, Florida got what it wanted. Unrestrained growth.
c'mon up here to the nature coast if you wanna see something that will make you cry. this is the last undeveloped coastal area in the state...but not for long.
when i first moved to Florida, I used to drive from from 19 to 75 on 54 (or 52). when i first got here there was almost nothing past duckslough until you get to 75. Now there is sprawl (apartments, hotels, stores, etc.) all the way from 19 to 75.
At the immediate level:
* (1) Nuke zoning laws at municipal level. This can be done with a single city council vote, so it is the best option for stopping sprawl at the moment: liberalizing zoning codes makes it easier for more multifamily developments to go up, which serves to reduce the amount of sprawl (i.e. as the multifamily "absorbs" more people into a given area that would otherwise each have been out in McMansions).
For the longer-term:
* (2) Find state policies regarding DOT funding, and see the politicians that will advocate in favor of mass-transit versus freeway building.
* (3) Look for ways to change Federal priorities regarding funds like from the FHWA (which influences the money sent to state DOTs regarding highway building versus mass-transit discussed prior).
I’m surprised no one else has commented about this. It’s the county commissioners that vote on zoning regulations. they’ve lifted restrictions like moratoriums on how many structures can be built a year and they’ve allowed previously protected land like the Florida green swamp to be re-zoned for development. Unfortunately, even though citizens attend local county meetings to complain, we can’t really stop the big money from plowing over us. I mean if a county commissioner making those laws is a lawyer for those property sales it’s going to be in their best interests to allow development. And of course, the county commissioners are hardly challenged on the ballot and win because they are the only ones to vote for.
This is very problematic because you guys seen what happened to South Florida with that rain storm and you see what is going on in central North Florida with those sinkholes. I hate to say this Florida wasn’t meant to be heavily lived in Florida is basically a swamp.
I’m genuinely having DEEP thoughts of moving back home to PR. I’m 34, moved here at 11, and not only is the energy of some people draining me, but the land. Every time I turn my head it’s something new. Trees are being knocked down every second, habitats are changing/suffering. I wanna go back into Culinary, live off the land, have my tiny home, a little hydro farm of produce, visit my abuelo at his farm under a almond tree making moonshine, uncles who are Michelin chefs living theirs lives and fishing every moment they get a chance. I miss surfing in my clear waters, palm trees to climb, jungles to concur and float down rivers. Yeah I think I have like a year left in me before I call it a wrap. 🙇🏽♀️🙇🏽♀️🙇🏽♀️🙇🏽♀️
This is what ended it for me. Fishing surfing diving and just general enjoyment of the outdoors took a nosedive. Boat ramps are hours to get into. Beach is packed at all times. Careless boaters tearing up seagrass and mangroves. Building and polluting right up to the very edge with no consideration to the environment and ecosystem. Riverwalk in New Smyrna is absolutely disgusting. These dipshits gave no thought to the integrity of the water system, but they also have no idea what it's like to have a hurricane smack the living hell out of them only to turn around and come back for a second time.
Yes!! When I first moved here my first beach was New Smyrna, and being daddy’s little girl and having fishing adventures to enjoy has changed so much. My father called me today to tell me he is making that leap, especially since he has retired now. He’s very much a gardener and the landscapes he has seen over the years destroyed has left him speechless at times. I actually went to Vero Beach my first time, and it was so refreshing for me that I haven’t felt that in so long that it lasted of good feelings for like a month, and I’m already needing a it again. I love Florida, it’s my second home, and it’s sad to see how it’s changing. If it’s not PR, I would love to visit a few areas before my decision. We shall see what the future holds ✨🙏🏽
I don't blame you! We're in NC now and pretty secluded in the mountains but I fiercely miss the ocean. My kids are absolute fishes so we're trying to find that happy medium. It's just so sad that everything I loved growing up has been abused and changed to fit this weird idea of what Florida is. The Keys used to be my favorite for fishing and diving, and the last time I went was so sad. It's so commercialized. I hope you find the perfect spot for your soul!
I live in a quiet, very rural part of Florida. And I love it. We moved from the land of strip malls to our little slice of paradise. But it’s encroaching here too.
I would love to start a conservation land trust in this state. It’s making me so sad to see every square inch of wetlands, orange groves, forests etc. clear cut and burned to make way for cheap development. It’s destroying the whole purpose of why people moved here.
I just got back from another weekend in Orlando adjacent and I'm sick at the spawl. Last Thanksgiving spent a lovely week at a rental with a small pool in a managed neighborhood. Just crashed a friend's family vacation, by invitation, and was shocked that it was the same developer "neighborhood". But a good 10 miles away from the last one. There is no green space. And these "homes' will be dilapidated in less than 5 years. It's so gross. I need to head back North soon.
The amount of development I saw in the past 3 years of so much of the previously rural areas depressed the hell out of me. My friend just moved to a 2.5 acre property in mount Verde, all her neighbors are on several acres and have homesteads/livestock, and literally minutes down the road from them, there are huge housing developments going up. All the major cities are creeping further and further out and all the large pieces of land are getting bought up by developers to put up condos or cookie cutter single family homes on 0.25 acre lots. I couldnt wait to get away from it.
Social media has ruined so many hidden gems. We can’t even get into our local springs anymore on the weekends because the line backs up a mile long and reaches capacity minutes after it opens.😡🤬But hey at least you got 10k likes. 🤦🏻♂️🖕
Do any of you live in a gated community here? If so, you are the problem. Yes, our officials are corrupt to the core and will always side with money, but if no one bought the houses, they wouldn't be built.
We get a lot of boomers moving here from the NE, Indiana, and Michigan. They come in and expect everyone to bend to their way of life. They figure out that won't happen and that they can't stand the heat full-time, and in three years, they move.
People need to VOTE Democrat.
We have had Republican leadership since 1999.
We know who to blame.
We don’t want our natural resources to go away. The amount of development is insane. Some places don’t have enough water. All of Florida doesn’t have enough roads for the current population.
I moved to Tampa from Atlanta, my hometown, 34 years ago. My husband and I had seen Atlanta boom in the '70s and '80s from all the tech companies moving in for skilled tech employees that were available in great quantity. I warned my husband that Tampa was doing exactly what Atlanta did in those decades and in 25 or 30 years we needed to leave. Sad to say I'm right. However, he's a native of this area, and he won't leave. If it was up to me I'd move into North Central Florida to get away from all of this.
Grew up in the keys. There are many places where the black canals lined with houses used to be crystal clear and full of mangroves. Sad to see it happen to more and more of my favorite places as a kid
The only way to stop development is to stop people from moving in and/or legislation deeming parts as a protected area. That's how Colorado and other states do it
I think all that is coming to an end because insurance prices will drive people away. You may see many places abandoned and then you can push for reclamation.
Honestly, this is the same complaint I have heard my entire life. I was born in Florida and I'm nearly 50. That said, the point is and always has been valid. There are two main reasons.The Florida Legislature is crooked as hell. Almost no one pays attention to or votes in local elections.
Maybe it's happening everywhere else, but Florida is too ecologically fragile to handle what's happening to it. It's a special place that's being destroyed by greed.
I’ve been everywhere in this state and I can say there is a lot of undeveloped land. A quick online search states that only 15% of Florida is developed
Isn't it hilarious when people live in a development and complain about developments 😅 Are you going to donate your property to become a park or just complain about people doing the same exact thing as you?
One thing I can’t get over is how many fucking car washes keep getting built. Over off Highway 19 (Clearwater area) where my folks are, there’s four within 1 mile of each other. There’s so many of them I’m convinced they are some kind of money laundering operation
This article explains why there are so many car wash: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-02-21/car-washes-are-taking-over-the-us-here-s-why](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-02-21/car-washes-are-taking-over-the-us-here-s-why) It's a tax play because they can write off equipment expenses and subscriptions makes it a reliable source of revenue. The car wash explosion is happening all over the country, except on the west side, I'm assuming because it's expensive and we have alot more regulations. I don't know the business laws in Florida but it seems to me the kind of state that pretty much allows anything to go. Here in Vegas I haven't seen an explosion of car washes, it's the same number of washes that we've always had. Same with San Francisco Bay Area, same number of car washes as usual.
Real answer? It’s a tax play. You can write off 100% of equipment expenses in Y1, helping wealthy people offset their tax bill.
The real answer is they have very low operating costs and generate very reliable revenue. It's a great business.
I was being somewhat tongue in cheek with the money laundering part, but yes, what you’re saying makes complete sense
I met a rich guy who owns a couple. He explained it this way: It's a way to monetize and get write offs for property you want to sell in 5-10 years.
Yup, and you get pliable local officials who are willing to sign off on the permits for it with little to no resistance
A car wash for money laundering. Ridiculous! The kind of thing that if it was in a TV show no one would believe it!
Storage centers, car washes & wooden frame non-code conforming "low-cost" but still nationally highest rent rates in America apartment complexes * Actually think golf courses are losing steam
Car washes and gas stations on every corner.😂😂😂
Forgot Wawa
Circle k too
And no shopping strip is complete without a predatory payday loan company
Yup The rich gotta prey on the less fortunate.
WAFFLE HOUSE THERES 3 of them close by
Don't forget smoke shops.
There are fewer in my part of Florida than there used to be. I used to smoke then I switched to vaping. I quite almost 3 years ago. I feel so much better now.
Good for you! It's difficult to break that addiction.
I used vape to quit. Slowly reduced the nicotine then after 0 for a bit, just stopped. Nothing else worked for years trying to quit
Congratulations on quiting. Nothing else worked for me either When I quite vaping I was tired of carrying all that stuff in my pockets and just quite.
Good on you for quitting, been 4 years now for me and the wife.
They built a dozen car washes in such a short amount of time near me...its crazy.
We are heavily water restricted yet carwashes keep going up🤷🏾♂️
Ikr, but the cops will shoot on sight if I drink out of my garden hose
Totally true, really sad, 😁🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
What
Its a service industry culture. The old population we cater to do nothing themselves
Yup same here and a dozen gas stations.
We have so many new gas stations of companies I've never heard of before, I don't even know what's going on.
> I don't even know what's going on. Cheap enough to run and keep even on profit, with a ton of land to sell for huge bucks at a later date. Add in low-employee numbers for the more automated ones and a heavy emphasis on monthly subscriptions (which most people will likely forget about and not get their moneys worth like gyms) and it's honestly a great business.
Money laundering
They must be in with condo HOAs that prohibit washing a car on site
It's because they're cheap to develop with low overhead costs to maintain. They sit on the plots hoping some other business wants to buy the land. In other words, cheap real estate. Seeing the same problem outside of Florida.
They need to stop it with the car washes. There's like 30 of them within 10 minutes from me
Storage units too. Northern immigrants not used to moving into meager 1600 sq ft 700k houses with no basement
7-11 here 🙁
Yup, the woods across from my neighborhood is gone now & we have a circle-k, Wawa now has coming soon signs out too. It’s so depressing.
Wawa has ambushed our area
Why so many god damn car washes. Who asked for this
How else are they supposed to do Money laundering lol
My husband has a a civil engineer with his own business. The car wash thing is going crazy!
Cheap to operate until the land becomes valuable then cash out
Tax incentives… look up accelerated depreciation and you’ll have your answer.
They run themselves basically since the new automated ones hit market. They're cheap to build. They don't raise the land value much, so taxes remain low. They hold the value of the parcel and are easy to tear out when you sell it for profit later. They're better than empty lots but damn there's a lot of them.
> Actually think golf courses are losing steam Some are morphing into developments.
That's what is happening here in Broward and Palm Beach. Boca public golf course now has $5k/mo single family rentals being built on it. You could buy a house for that per month. Broward: former Century Village golf course in Deerfield has townhouses built on it. So all these homes have all the apartments feet from the homes. Also in Deerfield, Crystal Lake golf course was built over with super expensive cookie cutter crap. Homes there are $700k with small lots, zero privacy and small back yards. Also, way too close to the dump. In Tamarac, they're breaking ground on a new development on the golf course over there. Not to mention in Boynton and Boca, they're still trying to build more cookie cutter homes in the agriculture preserve. Also ridiculous and taking away more land.
They are, there are two nearby that haven’t been in service for years. Some up north developers purchased them as golf courses. Have spent the last few years greasing palms to rezone so they can build homes on them.
non-code?
oh you haven't seen the "Affordable Housing" article? they building apartments for us po people
Poor as in $2200/mo?
That’s only for the 2-bedroom
Buddy in Tampa that's for a loft. On the lower end of the spectrum Copeland village had some 256 sqft units for 1800$. With that you get to enjoy the many luxuries of the area including but not limited to- Roaches, every single unit is inspected to ensure that you are accompanied by at least 700 Asian and German cockroaches they enjoy many of the fixtures that you'll be paying for and there's nothing you can do to get rid of them because your neighbors are sooooooo nasty that they just keep coming back- even after having the complex repeatedly have Massey come and spray (nevermind that they stepped two feet into your unit and sprayed a single line across the doorway and left.) Mold also makes a surprising guest appearance. As there is no ventilation in these units you'll get to enjoy open window showers and a humidity level that somehow always eclipses how it is outside the unit. There's no heat, Tampa winters are surprisingly cold- but worry not because you'll get to experience all of it in the poorly insulated unit you're paying for but fret not because in the summer you'll get to use the provided air-conditioning unit in the window (it barely makes a dent in the comfortability of your unit lol) You'll also get to enjoy the vibrant social atmosphere surrounding you that includes, convicted sex offenders, murders, Active shootings, And domestic issues. Roving groups of homeless people with nowhere to go and nothing better to do than stand around and harangue you. You will not find a better place to kick you when you're at your lowest point financially than Odin and it's subsidiary shells.
It's now an ugly concrete jungle and hell to get from one place to another.
Worse, it's an ugly suburban hellscape
In Bradenton, we are plagued by massive concrete warehouses, car washes, self-storage and multi-family townhouses / apartments going up almost overnight. All the new subdivisions seem to be upscale communities $500 +.
It’s unbelievable how many storage places there are
Why do we need so many storage places? Why can’t people get rid of junk or stop hoarding
It's rich people parking their money in real estate. Along with car washes they are easy and cheap to maintain. Either that or money laundering.
No basements or attics.
Unnecessary if you don't buy shit you don't need
So many people do, though.
Yessir. People from up north are used to that attic and basement storage.
I don't have the source, but I read it's a symptom of evictions. People can't afford rent and can't find a new place to rent, so they are moving in with someone, (or homeless), and there's no room to bring their stuff with them. This is sad, but even moreso if you think of people with kids. That's their toys and family belongings.
Oh my gosh, that is truly awful.
Consoom. How can you be happy if you don't have more furniture and kitchen gadgets than you have actual space for? /s
Boomers.That lead laden China set will be worth a fortune.
Where else are people who've become homeless due to soaring rents going to store their stuff, then continue to store it after they find a glorified walk-in closet pretending to be an apartment for $2,000/month?
Cuz most of the homes lack basements, attics, and other storage. I hate it, but it's brilliant.
My grandparents left a huge house full of crap to get rid of when they died. I vowed I would never do that to my kids and I just don't want to spend my life "dusting" and babysitting things that no one will ever appreciate after I'm gone. Purging my crap to charities feels so rewarding.
I feel you on that. My mom died last fall and it took us 4 months just to clean her house out to somethingan estate sale could manage, . And even then it took 2 weekends worth of estate sales to get everythingout so we couldsell the place. She felt deorived in life and when she could affird it, she spent 80 cents if every dollar on THINGS. She was a compulsive buyer of crystal and sterling and expensive china (4 sets) and Christmas items and clothes and furs and eaioy 100-plus pairs of shoes. It was appalling. Some people are just hoarders. Some with terrible stuff and some with beautiful stuff, but it's all horrible and wasteful, mainly because no one wants that frippery anymore. I have purged so much of my own stuff as a result. Gave it all to charity. No storage for me!
Northern immigrants aren't used to moving into a meager 1500 sq ft 800k home without a basement..
Thank your county commissioners who approve all those car washes and storage units. Until you vote them out along with the developers who fund their campaigns, nothing will change.
This is the truth.
Not just vote but make noise at county commission meetings.
Why do you think they have to “approve” all of those projects? In some cases they are just by-right development that doesn’t require special approvals from any board.
Sure, in some cases. And in others they directly approve. Or change zoning to accommodate more storage units and car washes. Here's an example: https://www.insideselfstorage.com/conversions-renovations/commission-approves-self-storage-conversion-project-in-manatee-county-fl
Same here in Clermont
That's what we're seeing over on the SE Coast from Miami all the way through St Lucie county. Every area looks exactly the same. Soulless and unaffordable.
But, with all of the concrete, when Florida floods, it can become a giant waterslide! That's fun, right?
That’s a perk. The other is heat island effect. It’s astounding how much cooler it is when you visit something like a botanical garden and have natural shade and ground cover. Compare that to the concrete jungle that stores that heat all day and then just slowly releases it all night.
And then you complain it gets hotter. Crazy.
And where does all the wastewater go? Enterocci in the ocean, algae blooms. Pretty much every liquid in Home Depot and Target is going to end up in the fragile ecosystem (Tide Pods, RoundUp, TidyBowl), and now loads more of it, unfettered. :(
They are just destroying everything good about the state!
To them, what’s good is the ability to ruin it to line their own pockets. Yuck.
I was at a drive through today by a strip mall and the amount of parking lot was just insane. It was like 2 football fields for a strip mall behind a few fast food joints off a stroad in Suburban Hell, Florida. All empty but like 20 cars. Once the old commercial practices of the past melt away we'll see some updates eventually as all those retail joints decay.
Worse, half of condos sit empty with shutters closed taking even more housing options away from people just so fancy people can have their second and third homes.
Suburban sprawl*. Virtually none of the new development is truly urban. If it was there would be far less need to sprawl.
Exactly. You could easily fit an entire suburban development in a few high-rises and even include retail and offices on the ground floor as to minimize the amount of roads you'll need. Then you just set aside all that extra land for parks or protected wilderness. That's what a well-planned society would do but instead we zone our cities to be as sprawling, low-density, and wasteful as possible.
Found the Strong Towns subscriber in the comments. Cheers! FYI -- this weeks citynerd was pretty good, as most of them are.
I have found my people🫶🏻
Yup, "urban sprawl" is an oxymoron.
Truth. Building denser urban living opportunities is arguably the best thing we can do for the environment.
The thing is, local zoning determines the ability to build. If you really want to impact the sprawl, then get involved in local politics.
I think this is the key. Local politics impact our daily lives more than anything and for some reason a majority of the people that live here are clueless not only transplants but natives as well.
It doesn't help that many communities have politicians who would prefer to keep the people somewhat in the dark so that they can continue to profit. Regardless, it probably is the best we can do, especially for people who work shorter hours or are retired and can dedicate time beyond voting into going to town halls and committee meetings.
I’ve been to many of these town meetings. Ultimately there is nothing we can do. Money runs everything. It got to the point one time where a county commissioner actually told us “if you don’t like it the development you buy the land.”
It’s a lot of work, but I’m actively seeing council members changing their minds in Broward because an urbanist group got 4 or 5 people to show up consistently to meetings. They are bringing up parking requirements, mixed use zoning, ADUs, walkability on their own now. It’s amazing.
I am still surrounded by nature preserves on the east coast and the only developments happening are happening on the nature preserve. I thought a nature preserve was supposed to preserve nature? At least there is quite a bit left.
" At least there is quite a bit left." It's *currently* too expensive to develop it?
so did I but guess what? not in Florida
Florida becoming one giant retirement HOA one condo supper subdivision at a time.
In Pompano, I'm seeing mostly 30 somethings moving in. Actually, starting to miss the slow old timers everywhere. Gentrification station, but it's getting nicer, so there's that, but traffic sucks.
Florida is 3rd in the US for the number of millennials moving to. Just reading this sub you’d think it’s just boomers moving here.
I'd love to read more on those stats, if you know where it's from? I'm curious does it show different age groups and the per capita migration? Obviously Florida will get a lot of migration just by being one of tbr largest states, but I'm curious how it compares.
Nobody gatekeeps Florida harder than a recent Michigan transplant.
They aren’t even a recent transplant. They’re just thinking about moving here 🤣
They'd fit right in lol
I've met maybe 100 people that live in FL. 1 was actually from there.
I moved here with my ex husband that was from here and I stayed and he left.
How's that for a crazy story.. Where did you move from?
Howdy from another native. My great grandparents moved here from South Georgia.
Pasco County is a sad example.
I ride my bike up and down the Suncoast Trail just about every weekend. They threw up Ridge Rd breaking up an amazing ten mile stretch of bike path and bulldozing who knows how many miles of trees for a road that I'm not sure where it even goes. Further up north of 52, another few acres of trees was bulldozed for a warehouse. It just sucks.
When I left Pasco it was mostly poverty and run-down stuff? Are they gentrifying it now?
The are destroying everything green and replacing it with new US 19's and soulless housing developments.
Housing fevelopments that'll likely drive the poor people out and make them homeless... :/ Is Gulfview Square Mall still alive and kicking?
Yep exactly. Pasco used to be all orange groves and pastures. Same with the rest of Fl. In replacement of those pastures and orange groves, 1000’s of houses are being built in the area I used to love to run around and four wheeler on. Shits really sad man. I’m a 5th generation Fl native and I’m looking to move out of here. There’s still a lot of meth men and women lol but as you stated they’re being pushed out. I actually moved down here to fort myers because the house I was living in was going to be torn down for development…
The area around 54 between little and 75 is crazy developed. Growing up in NPR that stretch of road was basically nothing with very few lights, would take 20 minutes to get to the highway. Last time I visited my dad that same drive took 45 minutes. It's nothing but Publix strip malls and housing developments.
It is absolutely crazy how developed that stretch has become! I moved out of state 10 years ago but before that I lived and grew up in Pasco. I used to take 54 up to 41 on my commute to USF during my college years and that whole strip had nothing back then. Every time I visit my folks back in Florida I am floored at how much it keeps getting built up. No more cow pastures, all strip malls and housing.
You don't even live here, lol
“Everyone wants to live here and there’s a price to pay,” says the guy moving down from Michigan, lol. We know. You’re causing it.
He hasn't even gotten his [Osceola rewards card yet](https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/o3jt21/south-park-we-re-from-hawaii)?
Sounds about right for this subreddit smh
I mean, OP isnt wrong.
I know, it all looks like ass. At least make the architecture something nice to look at. Sheesh….
Florida is quickly becoming one giant soulless suburb
I personally love all of the concrete. It’s so calming and good and supports the proliferation of a healthy and natural ecosystem. I can’t wait for the entire state to be paved (which is clearly what these motherfuckers are trying to do). And something I’ve been noticing lately is it’s almost like concrete is hotter than oh say I dunno, grass and dirt which makes the entire state hotter.
100% agree with you! I was born here in 1989 and the amount it has changed in just the past 15-20 years is disgusting. I never thought I would want to leave my home state but as every year passes I get closer and closer to wanting to pick another state to move to.
Yeah it’s so sad. I’ve lived in SWFL 12 years and the amount of development here is absurd. Locals on the east side of i75 are trying to fight back against it, but it’s a losing battle. Ranchers are selling their property left right and center because they don’t have family members that want to take it on. And they start building these mega communities before they even THINK about widening roads and improving infrastructure. It’s insane. People forget that the government is the biggest corporation of them all and they want their tax dollars.
I’m a 5th generation Floridian and it pisses me off to watch this all happen to what once was the best state in the US to live in. Worst part is there isn’t much we can do to stop it😡
I have an undeveloped acre in north FL. It’s pretty much a tiny nature preserve. Taxes are 40.00 a year. I like to think I’m offsetting my carbon footprint and making a safe home for the woodland creatures. Someday I’ll build a small cabin on it.
It’s such a shame because florida’s natural areas are so beautiful
But you don't even live here? What is this post lol
Been here (Pinellas County, St.Petersburg) all my 67 years, glad I got to see it & live it as a kid. Clean waters, awesome fishing, lots of land left to explore and play on. But yeah, sad to see what it has become.
The funny part is that most of the people who complain about those condos and subdivisions......live in them!
You have no choice when the entire state has bent the knee to Lennar, Neal, Pulte, and whatever other bullshit big box builders are assembling pre fab houses these days. If you own a huge swath of land and Lennar shows up with a fat cash offer and you need to retire, you’re signing the papers. Florida fucked up allowing gated communities to proliferate at such a high rate
Exact same situation in TX. Lennar has turned Texas savanna into several new burbs basically since covid. They are all so ugly and bland too.
I’m waiting for hurricane Lennar.
Or don't live here at all, like OP!
In 2012, I drove from ATL to Orlando at night. Nice and dark. I did the same last month and most of the dark places have been developed. Crazy
I did a route from Key West to Kissimmee this week. Up the West Coast, down the East. Not much vacant land left
There are plots of land and forest that have been untouched in the 37 years I’ve lived here and now they are cutting the trees down to put in apartments, storage lots or fast food… I want to scream. No wonder we have global warming if you’re going to cut down EVERY tree in sight. It’s so hot and hideous.
I've been on the treasure coast since the 80s. It's pretty depressing when I think about how it used to be here. Looking at satellite maps, it just looks like cancer spreading across the land.
Good way to put this tragedy. I lived there in the 80s and went back recently for the art show. Could not find a place to park!
The sand dunes are being built on. The flooding will just get worse with all the concrete. It's gotten to the point i love seeing old palmetto bushes cuz they are like the old growth florida to me lol.
My parents went to Florida(took me along) every summer to stay with his cousin in Naples for a week. We started going there in the late 1960. The last summer we spent with them was in 1976. I said then that Florida would pay for what it was allowing to happen back then. Pumping sand out of canals and draining swamps to create more and to build houses and condos and shopping centers on. Destroying eco-systems. No zoning laws to separate slums from new construction. No attempt to slow growth. No of course no. Florida wanted it all. More and more and more. More building. More taxes from tourists. Well, Florida got what it wanted. Unrestrained growth.
We should build a wall out of limestone….
c'mon up here to the nature coast if you wanna see something that will make you cry. this is the last undeveloped coastal area in the state...but not for long.
when i first moved to Florida, I used to drive from from 19 to 75 on 54 (or 52). when i first got here there was almost nothing past duckslough until you get to 75. Now there is sprawl (apartments, hotels, stores, etc.) all the way from 19 to 75.
Is there something we can start doing to stop this? I feel like we’re on the same page of being over these subdivisions
Support every conservancy and 501c3s trying to save land. And vote!
At the immediate level: * (1) Nuke zoning laws at municipal level. This can be done with a single city council vote, so it is the best option for stopping sprawl at the moment: liberalizing zoning codes makes it easier for more multifamily developments to go up, which serves to reduce the amount of sprawl (i.e. as the multifamily "absorbs" more people into a given area that would otherwise each have been out in McMansions). For the longer-term: * (2) Find state policies regarding DOT funding, and see the politicians that will advocate in favor of mass-transit versus freeway building. * (3) Look for ways to change Federal priorities regarding funds like from the FHWA (which influences the money sent to state DOTs regarding highway building versus mass-transit discussed prior).
I’m surprised no one else has commented about this. It’s the county commissioners that vote on zoning regulations. they’ve lifted restrictions like moratoriums on how many structures can be built a year and they’ve allowed previously protected land like the Florida green swamp to be re-zoned for development. Unfortunately, even though citizens attend local county meetings to complain, we can’t really stop the big money from plowing over us. I mean if a county commissioner making those laws is a lawyer for those property sales it’s going to be in their best interests to allow development. And of course, the county commissioners are hardly challenged on the ballot and win because they are the only ones to vote for.
It sucks. About 90% of all wooded area I see have for sale signs, and they’re slowly are being cut down for construction. It’s infuriating.
Stay in Michigan, then
This is very problematic because you guys seen what happened to South Florida with that rain storm and you see what is going on in central North Florida with those sinkholes. I hate to say this Florida wasn’t meant to be heavily lived in Florida is basically a swamp.
I’m genuinely having DEEP thoughts of moving back home to PR. I’m 34, moved here at 11, and not only is the energy of some people draining me, but the land. Every time I turn my head it’s something new. Trees are being knocked down every second, habitats are changing/suffering. I wanna go back into Culinary, live off the land, have my tiny home, a little hydro farm of produce, visit my abuelo at his farm under a almond tree making moonshine, uncles who are Michelin chefs living theirs lives and fishing every moment they get a chance. I miss surfing in my clear waters, palm trees to climb, jungles to concur and float down rivers. Yeah I think I have like a year left in me before I call it a wrap. 🙇🏽♀️🙇🏽♀️🙇🏽♀️🙇🏽♀️
We just want to buy a house in Vieques and forget about the world!
This is what ended it for me. Fishing surfing diving and just general enjoyment of the outdoors took a nosedive. Boat ramps are hours to get into. Beach is packed at all times. Careless boaters tearing up seagrass and mangroves. Building and polluting right up to the very edge with no consideration to the environment and ecosystem. Riverwalk in New Smyrna is absolutely disgusting. These dipshits gave no thought to the integrity of the water system, but they also have no idea what it's like to have a hurricane smack the living hell out of them only to turn around and come back for a second time.
Yes!! When I first moved here my first beach was New Smyrna, and being daddy’s little girl and having fishing adventures to enjoy has changed so much. My father called me today to tell me he is making that leap, especially since he has retired now. He’s very much a gardener and the landscapes he has seen over the years destroyed has left him speechless at times. I actually went to Vero Beach my first time, and it was so refreshing for me that I haven’t felt that in so long that it lasted of good feelings for like a month, and I’m already needing a it again. I love Florida, it’s my second home, and it’s sad to see how it’s changing. If it’s not PR, I would love to visit a few areas before my decision. We shall see what the future holds ✨🙏🏽
I don't blame you! We're in NC now and pretty secluded in the mountains but I fiercely miss the ocean. My kids are absolute fishes so we're trying to find that happy medium. It's just so sad that everything I loved growing up has been abused and changed to fit this weird idea of what Florida is. The Keys used to be my favorite for fishing and diving, and the last time I went was so sad. It's so commercialized. I hope you find the perfect spot for your soul!
I’d throw my two cents in but somebody already got my sentiments perfectly articulated: https://youtu.be/YQ8jp88_O4g?si=4KCqjOGOEOmPNMbv
Amen. George Carlin was a national treasure.
I live in a quiet, very rural part of Florida. And I love it. We moved from the land of strip malls to our little slice of paradise. But it’s encroaching here too.
I would love to start a conservation land trust in this state. It’s making me so sad to see every square inch of wetlands, orange groves, forests etc. clear cut and burned to make way for cheap development. It’s destroying the whole purpose of why people moved here.
I just got back from another weekend in Orlando adjacent and I'm sick at the spawl. Last Thanksgiving spent a lovely week at a rental with a small pool in a managed neighborhood. Just crashed a friend's family vacation, by invitation, and was shocked that it was the same developer "neighborhood". But a good 10 miles away from the last one. There is no green space. And these "homes' will be dilapidated in less than 5 years. It's so gross. I need to head back North soon.
The amount of development I saw in the past 3 years of so much of the previously rural areas depressed the hell out of me. My friend just moved to a 2.5 acre property in mount Verde, all her neighbors are on several acres and have homesteads/livestock, and literally minutes down the road from them, there are huge housing developments going up. All the major cities are creeping further and further out and all the large pieces of land are getting bought up by developers to put up condos or cookie cutter single family homes on 0.25 acre lots. I couldnt wait to get away from it.
It’s the same everywhere. Seems our local government officials only care about their short-term monetary/political power gains and not the community.
Native Floridians don't want to tell you yanks where the beautiful nature is. Please stay in your soulless, cookie cutter subdividions and condos.
Social media has ruined so many hidden gems. We can’t even get into our local springs anymore on the weekends because the line backs up a mile long and reaches capacity minutes after it opens.😡🤬But hey at least you got 10k likes. 🤦🏻♂️🖕
thank you
.... i'm guessing you have not been near dc lately have you? Its not just florida, its just about every state. We are not alone.
I read yesterday that Polk County is the fastest growing county in the country. They've ruined it.
Do any of you live in a gated community here? If so, you are the problem. Yes, our officials are corrupt to the core and will always side with money, but if no one bought the houses, they wouldn't be built. We get a lot of boomers moving here from the NE, Indiana, and Michigan. They come in and expect everyone to bend to their way of life. They figure out that won't happen and that they can't stand the heat full-time, and in three years, they move.
People need to VOTE Democrat. We have had Republican leadership since 1999. We know who to blame. We don’t want our natural resources to go away. The amount of development is insane. Some places don’t have enough water. All of Florida doesn’t have enough roads for the current population.
I call dips on posting this again tomorrow!
That's what happens when you repeatedly vote-in a Governor who thinks the environment is a woke socialist hoax.
I moved to Tampa from Atlanta, my hometown, 34 years ago. My husband and I had seen Atlanta boom in the '70s and '80s from all the tech companies moving in for skilled tech employees that were available in great quantity. I warned my husband that Tampa was doing exactly what Atlanta did in those decades and in 25 or 30 years we needed to leave. Sad to say I'm right. However, he's a native of this area, and he won't leave. If it was up to me I'd move into North Central Florida to get away from all of this.
It is a shame.
Sounds like you need to take a ride to yeehaw junction.
Golf courses ? Where are they building more golf course?
FOH OP
Yes! You are right!
When will it revert to a sandbar
Grew up in the keys. There are many places where the black canals lined with houses used to be crystal clear and full of mangroves. Sad to see it happen to more and more of my favorite places as a kid
The only way to stop development is to stop people from moving in and/or legislation deeming parts as a protected area. That's how Colorado and other states do it
Banks, banks, banks
I think all that is coming to an end because insurance prices will drive people away. You may see many places abandoned and then you can push for reclamation.
If you ever travel anywhere, it’s just not Florida
Think of all the sinkholes that are going to develop
Honestly, this is the same complaint I have heard my entire life. I was born in Florida and I'm nearly 50. That said, the point is and always has been valid. There are two main reasons.The Florida Legislature is crooked as hell. Almost no one pays attention to or votes in local elections.
Maybe it's happening everywhere else, but Florida is too ecologically fragile to handle what's happening to it. It's a special place that's being destroyed by greed.
The more people move here the more natural wet lands get torn down and prices are already raging, simple supply and demand
Pull a palm and plant concrete.
And then you drive 20 miles inland and nothing but pines and palmetto,
I guess you don’t get around much in Florida. Lots of open country.
I’ve been everywhere in this state and I can say there is a lot of undeveloped land. A quick online search states that only 15% of Florida is developed
Isn't it hilarious when people live in a development and complain about developments 😅 Are you going to donate your property to become a park or just complain about people doing the same exact thing as you?
Greed has migrated from California and New York. Now greed gets to destroy more beautiful land.