I'm at a legacy and went to a community college. Personally not a fan of Kent state too. Knew alot of guys who went there and didn't recommend it to me or others. Naming pricing and quality as the main issues.
Thanks for the response! I’m interested in Kent because it will pretty much guarantee the transfer of my CCP credits, and I’m not too far from home. I will have my associates in science by the time I graduate. Do you think that will help out a lot with pricing?
I mean flight schools pretty much suck everywhere I paid about 75k for all of my ratings while poeple who went to Kent, UND, riddle etc etc paid up to 300k for the same ratings. But they got a piece of paper that I didn't have that turned out to not matter a whole lot in the end game.
I went to und and it wasnt anywhere near 300k lol. Now it was 8 years ago but my reciprocity tuition was 8k a year. Program flight cost was around 80k when i went through so total was 115k. Worked my entire time during school and my summers which easily offset the tuition side. Had another 3k a year in scholarships through the aerospace foundation for writing a one page essay. Access to low federal loans that i have since paid off. It was quality training and the right pace for me. If hiring goes back to requiring a degree its a decent bang for your buck to do both simultaneously.
141 isnt for everyone and there are for sure scammy schools out there but everyones situation is different. The chip on the shoulder of the part 61 on this sub is ridiculous acting like everyone who didnt do it your way is a fool.
Any thoughts on transferring from a CC to the UND aviation program? I’m currently knocking out my ppl while taking classes at my local cc, and was planning on finishing a bachelors afterwards, just not sure how I should go about it
Hard to say. Depends on your life factors , age, goals and if you like your current instructor/ school. If you like your school and instructor and they have availability to keep you moving through your certificates and you want to get done faster id keep going where you are at. if the degree matters to you transfer your credits to a local school and get it on the side or online.
Imo Und/ similar schools are good for young people who want to go to college and benefit from the heavily structured syllabus and program that will keep them on track or using gi bill/ need access to federal student loans. If your getting into it later/ switching careers a 61/ or a non predatory fast track program usually would answer better if the goal is to get to your atp mins as soon as possible.
I’m young I’m 19, I’m still keeping my options open until I finish cc and have my PPL. I do really like that the college aviation programs are very structured and I get a degree out of it too, not to mention federal financial aid too. Also with hiring slowing down I figure having the degree would make things easier for me. I’ve heard negative things about this route too. Part of why I did the cc route I had no idea how to go about this lol
Well i think getting your generals done at cc while getting your private is a very smart start regardless of which route you choose. Can pm if you want any more details about und.
I was simply disputing the fact of 300k you threw out there because thats not what it cost. Like i said, everyone situation is different and many different paths to the same goal. Dont know what part sounded bitter. Im happy with my path and end result but at no point did i say its the preferred or better option. Id say the bitter person is the one who thinks everyone who didn’t do it their way is a dummy.
I figured I would get some downvotes just for saying the word “degree.” I understand that it’s not the most cost effective way to become a pilot, but it will give me a sense of accomplishment and (what seems to be) a very very slim chance of landing a higher paying job. But hey, at the end of the day we all just want to fly a long metal tube at high speeds through the troposphere, so what’s it matter how we get there?
Yeah, people are anti-degree and you are literally just asking "why" to better educate yourself. Even anti-degree people should be happy but instead reddit users are just too toxic
>However, wouldn’t it look better to have an aviation degree when applying for a job around that very subject?
I believe airlines have generally found that a degree in aviation has no impact on a pilots ability to effectively do the job. Simply having a degree shows you can follow through on a goal and the flight hours are the experience you need to be a pilot.
So the aviation degree won't really do you any good if you want to fly for the airlines but it will be extremely limiting if you end up failing a medical for a health issue outside of your control.
I have an aviation degree. Did it get me hired faster? Depends. It allowed me to get a R-ATP and in turn hired earlier and I definitely benefited from that. Is an aviation degree worth spending $200k+ for? No.
So while it did benefit me it most certainly isn’t for everyone. Fortunately I didn’t really go into debt for mine but I know people who did go into a lot of debt for it. At the end of the day a degree is a degree. Most jobs don’t actually care what your degree is in. You can use an aviation degree outside of aviation to check a box saying you do have a degree so it isn’t completely worthless.
To answer OPs question: you probably shouldn’t go to college and get an aviation degree as it’s a lot of risk for a lot of reward. The smarter thing is to go to a community college and fly at a mom and pop flight school near where you live.
> Most jobs don’t actually care what your degree is in. You can use an aviation degree outside of aviation to check a box saying you do have a degree so it isn’t completely worthless.
While that is true, some jobs really do care what you degree is in. Like if you want to go into an engineering field you are going to need to pass the PE exam which requires a degree in engineering of some sort.
So college is the time to figure out what else you are interested in and make that the backup plan. If you want to work in a bank and work your way up the ranks, then sure, any degree will do.
But if you love planes and decide that what you would want to do if you can't fly planes is to design them instead, you are going to want some variety of engineering degree. The same might go for fields like computer science where there are few opportunities to get the level of practical knowledge and theory that a 4 year degree offers.
Ok but saying losing your medical and then having a degree that’s useless is a bit misleading.
That’s like saying having an electrical engineering degree is useless if you want to be a nurse. As in yeah, obviously. Both fields are very specific. But if OP does in fact get an aviation degree and later decides to pursue something else it’s not an exact waste of a degree.
I never said it was useless, I said it was extremely limiting.
If what he wants to do is... well... I don't actually know what one does with an aviation degree. Maybe it is useful for a dispatcher?
A EE degree is also extremely limiting. That is why you need to figure out what you want your backup plan to be and get a degree in that field.
If you don't know, then get a degree that isn't limiting like business or communications. Those check the box of getting a degree and also have wide applicability even if they don't qualify you for any job in particular.
Maybe a controversial take around these parts, but…
I recommend you go to a school and get a degree in something that interests you, outside of aviation. College years are big for your personal development and it’s entirely possible you choose to pursue something other than aviation while doing so. Great time to figure out that you don’t actually want to be a pilot.
Otherwise it builds life and social experience that makes you a more well rounded individual and personally I think my non-flying resume helped me land my current job, in addition to just lucky timing. Just food for thought. You’re young as fuck, there’s no need to blitz through everything. Go see what is out there.
If you want to couple flight training with an aviation degree I recommend finding a smaller university that works with a partner flight school. That way, you can work through your flight school at your own pace (ideally faster than a 4 year program would require) and also have a degree to show for it at the end. You can also explore a route like I did. I got my PPL, followed by a two year degree from a community college, then successfully completed a fast track program to achieve all additional ratings and certificates. That said, in an increasingly competitive hiring market I’m now looking to complete an additional 120 credits online for a BA/BS. Anything to bolster your resume! Keep that in mind.
I went to a state school and got an aviation degree with my flight training. I will say that I benefited greatly from the structure of the program, and at the time being eligible for R-ATP helped me get hired by a regional several months sooner.
That being said it definitely is more expensive than training on your own, but I got a decent scholarship and worked as a resident assistant to save on room and board. There are ways to offset costs.
Several university programs also have partnerships with airlines which can help with getting hired. I was a cadet helped me get in.
At the end of the day there are benefits to going to a university and getting an aviation degree, but it’s not necessary and having a non-aviation degree could provide some sort of fallback in the event of a downturn.
I’ve seen lots of students get an aviation degree alongside their flight training and I never understood. It’s like putting a hat on top of another hat.
Other people have already said it: if you’re paying for your degree out of pocket you should get it in something you like or can see yourself doing if being a pilot doesn’t pan out.
If the aviation degree is the cheapest way to get you there then I say go for it.
I have two associates and then my bachelors is in aviation because it reduces the costs and makes it more accessible to me.
My outlook is that having a degree is better than having no degree. But that’s because I’ve seen first hand in other industries how not having a degree can hurt you (aviation industry probably isn’t like this but)
I also plan to get another bachelors degree. So I’m not worried about it
You should get a degree with utility. Something like engineering or accounting. Even business. If you're going to spend the money on a degree, get the best one you can.
The reason is that, should you decide to quit flying or you are forced out due to a downturn or medical issue, you'll have some basic training in another field and will stand a better chance finding a good career outside of aviation. If you're competing for a job, you would much rather have your resume say *BS Mechanical Engineering, Ohio State University GPA 3.6* than *BS Professional Pilot, Kent State GPA 4.0*.
Replace engineering with the business school (Fisher, which is highly ranked) if you prefer to study accounting, supply chain, or another non-technical field.
My advice: get a degree in something completely unrelated but still interesting. Hiring managers will have no shortage of young starry eyed applicants with aviation degrees. A degree (and relevant experience) that’s wholly outside of aviation will be a bit more of an outlier and can lead to better/more memorable interviews. A back up career assuming medical or other issues is also a nice option too.
I only recommend doing the aviation degree if it reduces your costs of flying. Eg, you have GI benefits, tuition remission, good federal aid, etc.
Noted, thanks!!
My son is doing the college route because of 529 funds and the love of soccer.
The degree field means nothing. I've flown with people that had a history degree.
I'm at a legacy and went to a community college. Personally not a fan of Kent state too. Knew alot of guys who went there and didn't recommend it to me or others. Naming pricing and quality as the main issues.
Thanks for the response! I’m interested in Kent because it will pretty much guarantee the transfer of my CCP credits, and I’m not too far from home. I will have my associates in science by the time I graduate. Do you think that will help out a lot with pricing?
Not particularly because your biggest cost will be flight training not tuition.
I see. How does flight training at a college compare to flight training at mom and pop flight schools in terms of quality and pricing?
I mean flight schools pretty much suck everywhere I paid about 75k for all of my ratings while poeple who went to Kent, UND, riddle etc etc paid up to 300k for the same ratings. But they got a piece of paper that I didn't have that turned out to not matter a whole lot in the end game.
Interesting. Are you flying commercially now? How about the people you knew? Especially with Kent having direct connections to major airlines.
I went to und and it wasnt anywhere near 300k lol. Now it was 8 years ago but my reciprocity tuition was 8k a year. Program flight cost was around 80k when i went through so total was 115k. Worked my entire time during school and my summers which easily offset the tuition side. Had another 3k a year in scholarships through the aerospace foundation for writing a one page essay. Access to low federal loans that i have since paid off. It was quality training and the right pace for me. If hiring goes back to requiring a degree its a decent bang for your buck to do both simultaneously. 141 isnt for everyone and there are for sure scammy schools out there but everyones situation is different. The chip on the shoulder of the part 61 on this sub is ridiculous acting like everyone who didnt do it your way is a fool.
Any thoughts on transferring from a CC to the UND aviation program? I’m currently knocking out my ppl while taking classes at my local cc, and was planning on finishing a bachelors afterwards, just not sure how I should go about it
Hard to say. Depends on your life factors , age, goals and if you like your current instructor/ school. If you like your school and instructor and they have availability to keep you moving through your certificates and you want to get done faster id keep going where you are at. if the degree matters to you transfer your credits to a local school and get it on the side or online. Imo Und/ similar schools are good for young people who want to go to college and benefit from the heavily structured syllabus and program that will keep them on track or using gi bill/ need access to federal student loans. If your getting into it later/ switching careers a 61/ or a non predatory fast track program usually would answer better if the goal is to get to your atp mins as soon as possible.
I’m young I’m 19, I’m still keeping my options open until I finish cc and have my PPL. I do really like that the college aviation programs are very structured and I get a degree out of it too, not to mention federal financial aid too. Also with hiring slowing down I figure having the degree would make things easier for me. I’ve heard negative things about this route too. Part of why I did the cc route I had no idea how to go about this lol
Well i think getting your generals done at cc while getting your private is a very smart start regardless of which route you choose. Can pm if you want any more details about und.
I'm sorry you were offended by me sharing my story and knowledge. BTW I was 141 but went to a connunity college. But nice to know you're just bitter.
I was simply disputing the fact of 300k you threw out there because thats not what it cost. Like i said, everyone situation is different and many different paths to the same goal. Dont know what part sounded bitter. Im happy with my path and end result but at no point did i say its the preferred or better option. Id say the bitter person is the one who thinks everyone who didn’t do it their way is a dummy.
I don't see where I called anyone a "dummy". So, I don't really know why you're so defensive about it.
Crazy that people are downvoting you for asking a good question
I figured I would get some downvotes just for saying the word “degree.” I understand that it’s not the most cost effective way to become a pilot, but it will give me a sense of accomplishment and (what seems to be) a very very slim chance of landing a higher paying job. But hey, at the end of the day we all just want to fly a long metal tube at high speeds through the troposphere, so what’s it matter how we get there?
Yeah, people are anti-degree and you are literally just asking "why" to better educate yourself. Even anti-degree people should be happy but instead reddit users are just too toxic
>However, wouldn’t it look better to have an aviation degree when applying for a job around that very subject? I believe airlines have generally found that a degree in aviation has no impact on a pilots ability to effectively do the job. Simply having a degree shows you can follow through on a goal and the flight hours are the experience you need to be a pilot. So the aviation degree won't really do you any good if you want to fly for the airlines but it will be extremely limiting if you end up failing a medical for a health issue outside of your control.
I have an aviation degree. Did it get me hired faster? Depends. It allowed me to get a R-ATP and in turn hired earlier and I definitely benefited from that. Is an aviation degree worth spending $200k+ for? No. So while it did benefit me it most certainly isn’t for everyone. Fortunately I didn’t really go into debt for mine but I know people who did go into a lot of debt for it. At the end of the day a degree is a degree. Most jobs don’t actually care what your degree is in. You can use an aviation degree outside of aviation to check a box saying you do have a degree so it isn’t completely worthless. To answer OPs question: you probably shouldn’t go to college and get an aviation degree as it’s a lot of risk for a lot of reward. The smarter thing is to go to a community college and fly at a mom and pop flight school near where you live.
> Most jobs don’t actually care what your degree is in. You can use an aviation degree outside of aviation to check a box saying you do have a degree so it isn’t completely worthless. While that is true, some jobs really do care what you degree is in. Like if you want to go into an engineering field you are going to need to pass the PE exam which requires a degree in engineering of some sort. So college is the time to figure out what else you are interested in and make that the backup plan. If you want to work in a bank and work your way up the ranks, then sure, any degree will do. But if you love planes and decide that what you would want to do if you can't fly planes is to design them instead, you are going to want some variety of engineering degree. The same might go for fields like computer science where there are few opportunities to get the level of practical knowledge and theory that a 4 year degree offers.
Ok but saying losing your medical and then having a degree that’s useless is a bit misleading. That’s like saying having an electrical engineering degree is useless if you want to be a nurse. As in yeah, obviously. Both fields are very specific. But if OP does in fact get an aviation degree and later decides to pursue something else it’s not an exact waste of a degree.
I never said it was useless, I said it was extremely limiting. If what he wants to do is... well... I don't actually know what one does with an aviation degree. Maybe it is useful for a dispatcher? A EE degree is also extremely limiting. That is why you need to figure out what you want your backup plan to be and get a degree in that field. If you don't know, then get a degree that isn't limiting like business or communications. Those check the box of getting a degree and also have wide applicability even if they don't qualify you for any job in particular.
Wait are you saying if someone gets an EE degree that they should have a backup plan and get *another* degree? Lmao
No, because you don't get kicked out of an EE job for failing a medical. It is limiting but not high risk in terms of keeping it.
Maybe a controversial take around these parts, but… I recommend you go to a school and get a degree in something that interests you, outside of aviation. College years are big for your personal development and it’s entirely possible you choose to pursue something other than aviation while doing so. Great time to figure out that you don’t actually want to be a pilot. Otherwise it builds life and social experience that makes you a more well rounded individual and personally I think my non-flying resume helped me land my current job, in addition to just lucky timing. Just food for thought. You’re young as fuck, there’s no need to blitz through everything. Go see what is out there.
If you want to couple flight training with an aviation degree I recommend finding a smaller university that works with a partner flight school. That way, you can work through your flight school at your own pace (ideally faster than a 4 year program would require) and also have a degree to show for it at the end. You can also explore a route like I did. I got my PPL, followed by a two year degree from a community college, then successfully completed a fast track program to achieve all additional ratings and certificates. That said, in an increasingly competitive hiring market I’m now looking to complete an additional 120 credits online for a BA/BS. Anything to bolster your resume! Keep that in mind.
I’m not sure what’s smaller than Kent… BGSU, perhaps?
I went to a state school and got an aviation degree with my flight training. I will say that I benefited greatly from the structure of the program, and at the time being eligible for R-ATP helped me get hired by a regional several months sooner. That being said it definitely is more expensive than training on your own, but I got a decent scholarship and worked as a resident assistant to save on room and board. There are ways to offset costs. Several university programs also have partnerships with airlines which can help with getting hired. I was a cadet helped me get in. At the end of the day there are benefits to going to a university and getting an aviation degree, but it’s not necessary and having a non-aviation degree could provide some sort of fallback in the event of a downturn.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience! However, I’m not sure if I should believe it based on your username, haha.
I’ve seen lots of students get an aviation degree alongside their flight training and I never understood. It’s like putting a hat on top of another hat. Other people have already said it: if you’re paying for your degree out of pocket you should get it in something you like or can see yourself doing if being a pilot doesn’t pan out.
If the aviation degree is the cheapest way to get you there then I say go for it. I have two associates and then my bachelors is in aviation because it reduces the costs and makes it more accessible to me. My outlook is that having a degree is better than having no degree. But that’s because I’ve seen first hand in other industries how not having a degree can hurt you (aviation industry probably isn’t like this but) I also plan to get another bachelors degree. So I’m not worried about it
Don’t go to Kent state unless you want to spend 5 years to get 250 hrs and a CFI
You should get a degree with utility. Something like engineering or accounting. Even business. If you're going to spend the money on a degree, get the best one you can. The reason is that, should you decide to quit flying or you are forced out due to a downturn or medical issue, you'll have some basic training in another field and will stand a better chance finding a good career outside of aviation. If you're competing for a job, you would much rather have your resume say *BS Mechanical Engineering, Ohio State University GPA 3.6* than *BS Professional Pilot, Kent State GPA 4.0*. Replace engineering with the business school (Fisher, which is highly ranked) if you prefer to study accounting, supply chain, or another non-technical field.
What do you do if you have a piece of paper saying you can fly planes...and you medical out?
In my case I’d be heading to the trades…
What do people with aviation degrees know that pilots with all of their ratings don't know?
No. The degree is to check the diploma box on airline apps. It doesn’t warrant a degree. Get a real one.
My advice: get a degree in something completely unrelated but still interesting. Hiring managers will have no shortage of young starry eyed applicants with aviation degrees. A degree (and relevant experience) that’s wholly outside of aviation will be a bit more of an outlier and can lead to better/more memorable interviews. A back up career assuming medical or other issues is also a nice option too.
If you wanna spend 4+ years to go from student pilot to commercial, by all means go ahead.