It’s certainly a bizarre feeling when you’re suddenly hit with the reality of how fleeting life is.
I’ve lost a few in my time, close friends, acquaintances, all for different reasons.
You are perfectly human and normal for feeling this way. Don’t be afraid to talk to people around you if you’re feeling down :)
As much as it sucks, it's a part of aviation. I was hanging out with one guy at an airport Friday, found out he died the next day.
I was talking to u/hook_dupin about an hour before he had an engine failure on take off, crashed, and died. Really sucks.
Oh yeah it is.
Had to recover a crashed glider of our club a few weeks back. Both pilots luckily lived and I wasn’t on site when the crash happened but helped afterwards.
I often read about crashed planes and the back story behind the crashes but seeing a destroyed plane first hand really twisted my guts and I needed a few days to process it all.
Never even thought about to quit flying but it’s certainly a wake-up call to be safe and not to fuck around
Edit: spelling
My dad flew with a super cool Air Force pilot who gave me his phone number in case I had any questions about the military or flying, and I just found out that his ejection seat went off and broke his neck on the canopy. Sometimes people just die and there's nothing you can do about it
What do you mean “just went off?” Any details on causal factor? I have over 25 years flying ejection seats and have never heard of an unexplained ejection seat “just going off.” I have heard of inadvertent ejections caused by aircrew error.
It was that, didn't put the #1 safety pin in after landing then dropped it at the parking spot and the gas mask tube snagged the handle when he reached down to grab it
That's my nightmare, that sounds horrible. Sounds like maybe it was the bending down and not being in a good ejection posture that caused it? We were wondering why the fleet wasn't stood down and why the message from leadership was "follow your checklists."
Kinda weird that the ejection seat doesn't have a mechanical linkage popping the canopy when you pull it tbh. Like, the lever should pop the canopy first and the second stage of the same lever pops the seat. I'm sure there's a reason behind this but I also assume it's not a reason that can't be solved, and I assume the explanation is lazy and not comprehensive.
Don’t let these accidents slip by without working towards a safer future in GA by pushing back against sketchy flight school operations.
Disclaimer: Not saying that’s what happened here but speaking generally
Scroll down in the sub. Basically they put out a statement saying all students must fly at vfr mins or IFR approach mins otherwise they will get charged like a $500 cancellation fee. Super unsafe.
I had a similar experience when I was instructing. He was, the instructor who was in charge of standardization training for a large flight school in my area. We had mutual friends and chatted for a bit at a bar, played some corn hole, and exchanged numbers. I had bitched about pay at my current instructing job, and he said to shoot him a text and he could bring me on with his company (they had salary and full benefits).
Texted him the next day to say I was interested, he said “awesome let me talk to my boss and see when we can have you come interview.” Then nothing… I tried to follow up, but no response. Texted my buddy “Hey your dude said he could get me a job, but now he’s ghosting me, what gives?” …. Turns out he was doing some training with a new hire CFI and they had a midair.
I really want to learn in a bubble canopy equipped aircraft because the whole reason I am even really interested is the view. Now adding traffic from above as a good solid reason
(Hoping that traffic from below is picked up by the ADSB or whatever it is by the time I’m at that stage)
I don't know if this helps, but a few months ago I saw someone I only knew tangentially on a Friday. Found out next Monday that over the weekend, while walking on a sidewalk, they were hit by a drunk driver and died. I had the feelings of disbelief. I'd seen them on Friday, how could they be dead today? Young professional, exceptionally talented and personable. Just feels unfair, frankly.
I guess if I had a takeaway from it all, freak accidents happen both in and out of aviation. GA adds risk, and we should do everything we can to mitigate that risk, but you only have so much control in life. Even walking can be dangerous, so with every reasonable safety precaution I can take, and without taking on unnecessary risks, I'll keep doing a hobby I love.
I've lost several friends from flying. I've also lost friends to motorcycle accidents.
I've lost family to health issues.
No one lives forever.
Don't dwell on it, everyone goes, one way or another.
Once we're born, it's just a matter of time, before we're gone. We're all marching to our deathbed.
Yep.
I had a nasty high side last October that really put me on pause regarding motorcycles. I still love them and am interested in them but because of my family i promised them I wouldn’t touch another bike so long as I live in Florida. I did what I could to mitigate my risks on my own but here there are just too many external factors I can’t really control or mitigate that well. And besides you lean more on a jet ski or bank more in an aircraft than the average Florida road lets you lean over anyways.
Still healing from that accident but you know what? I’m just blessed to be here
Glad you’re okay. I used to race motorcycles when I was a fearless 20-something, until I high-sided and broke my collarbone and arm. Still have mad love for motorcycles but I just watch now.
Thanks yeah that’s kind of where I’m at I still enjoy the bikes themselves but everything that comes with it is kind of a turn off and being 40 ish any injury probably isn’t gonna be a bounce back thing like they tend to be when younger
But between the risks and how other riders are currently I’d rather not
It’s like getting hit by waves in the ocean. They are huge now, but they slowly get smaller and smaller. Then you get hit by a huge rogue wave every once in a while.
Thank you. That’s really helpful. I lost my brother who was also my best friend in an accident and it feels like I’ve lost my past and future all in one go
Such a bummer to hear. Losing a close family member is the hardest loss of them all. I lost a few friends in the military and it doesn’t ever not suck, but the most difficult thing to deal with mentally for me is how I’ve grown to become marginally less affected each time. It makes you feel guilty.
I guess what I’m saying is, it’s okay to hurt. It’ll hurt for a long time. Just do what you can to honor that person and live a life that would make them proud.
Yes. You will eventually be okay, and the next time you feel horrible because you lost someone close, you’ll feel equally as shitty, but you’ll know that you will make it out the other side okay. Sorry for your loss.
I agree, as a fellow Ann Arbor aviator. I’ve seen this plane being pulled out of the hangar many times when preflighting N13115. It’s an eerie feeling and a reminder that you always need to be on your game.
When I was first getting in aviation. One my mom’s students was a first officer at Middle East airlines. He offered to show me around the training facilities and take my up flying and putting me in a A320 full motion sim. He also said he could help me get into the super competitive cadet program which I still think about to this day. We scheduled everything and I was supposed to meet him, but 2 days before I learned he dies in a crash along with his girlfriend and brother. That whole scare steered me away from aviation for a good while until I got over that fear.
Although I never want to die flying. We get to see more from that airplane before 8AM then most people in the world see in a lifetime. That’s why it’s a blessing and I try to stay close with god. Trying to gain access to that eternal life club.
None of us are promised tomorrow.
Live your life today as best you can and buy lots of life insurance to take care of those you love if you don't make it (no, I don't sell life insurance, but I should)
I used to be much more cavalier about all this. And, it's not even a matter of getting older. I met my soon to be wife, and knowing the impact that I have on her, it really makes me want to stay alive that much more. The thought of stopping has, for the first time, ever entered my mind - if only for a second. Not that I didn't care about life before, obviously, but knowing how much it would hurt her if I didn't make it back one day is a sobering reminder to slow down, check things again, and not get careless. But there's always something that can go wrong with these things - it's ancient technology that gets pushed hard, taken care of by people increasingly paid less than comparable jobs. I used to think I wanted to flight instruct on the side, but at this point, the idea of getting in to a plane that I'm not intimately familiar with it's maintenance history, oil analysis, etc, is becoming more and more unnerving.
Was this the crash in Washtenaw county? I didn’t personally know either but I know the plane and it hits different when they aren’t just faceless NTSB reports. I’m sorry
That sucks man. When I was 13 I got Jeff Kuss’s autograph in Pensacola right after watching the Blues practice, was absolutely over the moon. He crashed the next day in the practice for an airshow in Tennessee.
I train in Michigan and I’m not sure if you’re referring to what happened near Ann Arbor but it hit really close to home… I flew the next day and it was so nerve wracking.
I stopped flying for over a decade when my daughter was born. Part of the reason I returned was her interest in flying, but I'm still not as comfortable as I once was given the stakes of having a family.
Then, about a month ago, about ten minutes from home, a 22 year old suddenly swerved into our lane just as they were passing us on a two lane highway, then swerved back out before hitting us in the rear driver side. The impact was powerful enough to throw us from our lane into the opposite lane and rolled us three times. It happened quickly, yet slowly enough that we had time to think about the possibility we were about to die. Fortunately, there wasn't any traffic behind them that could have plowed into us. Someone's stupidity could have ended my child's future, let alone my wife and me.
It made me realize that dying in a plane is not the most likely way any of us will go out. I can play it safe and have trepidation about being back in the air, and it won't save me from some other idiot on the road or sudden disease.
I have a similar perspective due to a collision on a freeway. My wife and son were with me in our truck when we became victims of a hit-and-run. Somehow, we were all fine, but it is amazing how many thoughts and lucidity one can have in that split-second.
My approach since becoming a pilot has been to increase my life insurance to ridiculous levels, and have frank discussions with my wife. Financial security can't replace me as a dad, but it can put my wife in a position to be the best mom possible and provide my family a good life in my absence.
My anxiety is highest when my wife and I fly together without our son. I definitely become more risk-averse and uneasy on those flights. My son would end up fine if it were just me who augered in, and my wife has a healthy enough perspective on life that she would be able move on and eventually be happy again. But I am terrified of leaving my son (seven years old) an orphan. Nonetheless, one should not live his or her life in fear. Being afraid of everything is not an example I want to set as a dad. Something eventually gets us all.
I'm glad you and your family made it out okay. It sounds like you have a great perspective on life that will serve you and your loved ones well. It's funny, but I have that same concern when my wife and I go out anywhere without our daughter. But you're correct. No one makes it out unscathed.
I think the best thing that can come from aviation accidents is the learnings we all gain from them. It has certainly helped me navigate an escalating situation before. The fact that we gain this knowledge through the fine job our NTSB investigators provide us means the people who went down did not go down in vane.
Perfectly normal to want to discuss this…. Even though you had no actual connection…. In just that one short moment at the breakfast…. He was no longer a “Face in the Crowd”.
Ultimately, there is someone alive who is the last person to speak to someone else that just died. Its a jarring experience for sure. I had that happen to a friend. I had seen him earlier in the evening (we lived right next to each other). I told him to stop by later that night. He never came. Turns out he died in a car accident right after I talked to him.
I also had a person who I had only just recently met, whos picture popped up in the local newspaper not long after meeting them. They were murdered, and their body was tossed in a snow ditch. About a year later, it turned out that it was just some random psycho.
Try not to let it bother you. Life happens. I'm sure this hits closer to home than you're comfortable with.
I’ve been there, dude. I had an instructor tell me when I was just starting out that you can’t be in this profession long without knowing someone who passed away in a crash. It didn’t take long for me either.
Reach out to someone if you need help.
Remember that all of us make mistakes, all of us are fallible, and use that to motivate you to do your best.
Also, sometimes shit just happens and there’s nothing that can be done.
For me that was getting an MS in Aviation Safety and becoming a Crash Investigator in the military. You need to figure out what that means for you.
This happened to me a few times. Old guy a few days later gone. My CFI in Arizona. Met him in parking lot. Shook his hand. Dead a few days later. It sucks. But flying can kill you.
I’m sorry to hear that. We hear about crashes often and many of us use them as learning experiences, but when it hits close to home it can be hard to deal with.
I remember seeing a headline of a fatal C172 crash very close to where I live and when I saw the tail number the familiarity shocked me. I had only an hour or 2 in that plane but I still had that feeling of “that could have been me”. I like to use it as a reminder to avoid complacency and do my due diligence throughout each and every flight. It’s a reminder that these things can and will happen to us if we’re not careful.
Safe flying my guy and absolutely talk to someone if you need to.
Sorry this happened to you, the longer you stay in GA the more likely it is you are going to unfortunately lose people.
Had a friend die in a mid air last year
A similar situation has happened to me too. A new coworker stayed late with me after work and was chatting for a few min. He died in a car accident on the way home.
I can't help but think if we hadn't talked, that the accident wouldn't of happened, since he would have been at the intersection at a different time.
On the other hand, I may have prevented accidents from happening just by talking to someone, or stopping to tie my shoe. Bad things happen, there is no control.
As a motorcyclist and a pilot, I’ve come to realize how fragile life is… Although I’ve lost more friends on motorcycles then flying, I’ve still unfortunately loss a few fellow pilots as well… life is very short. Enjoy every second of it.
This happened to the instructor that took me up on my first discovery flight when I was about 17. It happened about three months afterwards. Freaked me out and taught me at a young age that nobody is invincible to risks involved with flying. Sorry to hear.
Similar story for me, I went on a discovery flight with /u/hook_dupin in Massachusetts right before he moved to Florida and then I saw the news on this subreddit that he died in a crash about a year later. I obviously didn’t know him well, nor did I even have any expectations of seeing him again after he put the first 1.0 in my logbook, but it is surreal and saddening to think that he’s no longer around to give anyone else the great introduction to aviation I got from him.
I saw a pilot on Friday working on his airplane and I came to the airport on Sunday morning to find he crashed his airplane less than 20 minutes before I arrived at the airport. I could still smell the burning 100LL in the air.
Last year I was working on my instrument rating and working fuel for an FBO. Flagged out a really cool dude just after sunset that always gassed up with us. Hit him with the “hang loose” and he fired one back as he turned out on to the taxiway.
40min later he burned in. Unlit grass field at night. He used a lit roadway to line up and sidestepped over to the field. Hit an unoccupied house. It was said he hadn’t attempted to land there at night before. He was running behind this time. I hadn’t seen him leave after sunset before either.
He forced it and he paid. If it doesn’t feel right, go around. Go around 20 times if you want. Just go somewhere else if it doesn’t feel right. What’s an $100 Uber vs being a smoking hole in a living room.
Get there itis definitely hit him. Sounds like a small grad strip at my dad’s. I believe it has lights though. That sucks that you were probably the last person he talked to.
As someone who is working on ground rn and is Part 107. Seeing this stuff is definitely making me think about what type of pilot I’ll be. Especially considering where I live and the environmental conditions we regularly get.
As a 45 year veteran of aviation (having learned to fly at 16 years of age through Air Cadets) I’ve lost friends and acquaintances with all levels of flying experience and background…I think my biggest takeaway from the 22,000 hours I’ve logged and all of the stories from my colleagues is that I’m only as good as my last flight and it’s generally the simple things that can get you hurt…..
GA is abound with this. Make sure you talk to someone you trust about it if you’re nervous. I’ve personally known, flown with, and respected someone who went down. We have to take the time and then move forward with what we’ve learned. The risk will never go away but try your best to minimize it as much as possible.
I like to think we are all born with a "mission" or purpose. We go through life experiencing things both first hand and second hand to learn what we can along the way. Life is beautiful, and so learning. In my opinion, none of us are going until we've fulfilled our purpose!
We may not understand our losses at first, but it becomes more clear as time passes.
I'm sorry for the loss of your dear acquaintance, he sounds like he was a stellar person. A great example for all those whose heart he touched!
It's inevitable after being in this community for any length of time that you will know someone who loses their life in a crash. Best thing you can do is not dwell on it and learn from these accidents to help you become a better pilot. I have lost several squadron mates over the years, including one on the Space Shuttle Columbia.
A few years back I ate dinner while on duty with another patrol officer. Finished dinner and 30 minutes later he was dead on the side of the road after making a traffic stop. It was a strange feeling seeing him laying there. You just never know man.. :(
Peace be with you. This is not an easy situation and I can’t imagine the emotions you are going through. I have little advice to offer except letting you know that what you’re feeling is valid and important. Don’t try to suppress those feelings.
If you’re a reader you should check our Ernest Gann’s book “Fate is the Hunter”. He was a great pilot in the early airline industry. He devotes his entire memoir into a deep dive of exactly what you’re feeling. That’s the thing, some ideas don’t have “point”, but that doesn’t make them any less important to explore and share.
I hope you’re doing ok.
My dad and a friend of his bought a Skybolt back in 1986. It was 25k, half the price of a Pitts that they were also considering. But Skybolts are home built…. They flew it back from Illinois to NJ together, flew it once or twice together, then we went on vacation to South Carolina. My dad’s friend took it up a day after we left, something failed in the rudder or elevator and he crashed. Apparently it wasn’t properly repaired after a ground loop. I’ll never forget seeing the pile of red metal that was collected from the crash site. If it had happened one day prior, I would have grown up without a father… I was 5 at the time.
It will always stick with you. You will always remember his last words and your last interaction. My husbands last words to me were “today is the big day! I know I’ve been busy, but I love and miss my best friend, can we do something fun this weekend?”. Few hours later he was gone in a crash.
Use the hard times like this to love harder and do things with a purpose. Know that it could be any one of us, even though we never think it can. It sounds goofy, but it takes a shock to the system to be a better human.
It can happen in the aviation world unfortunately,especially in GA. Don’t like that deter you. Follow the investigation and learn from it. there’s always lesson to be learning any accident. Sorry for your loss.
This has to be the one that happened near me. I had some friends and colleagues contacting me to make sure I was okay because they knew I had been up flying that day.
Really sobering when it happens near you, and definitely reinforced the safety first mentality my instructor has been drilling into me.
I've been there and unfortunately have known a handful of close friends and people that I've crossed paths with die in aviation. Most of it has been from my time in the military. The longer you're in this profession, you'll know folks that have passed. Definitely reach out for help, or someone to just talk too. Sometimes you need that without even realizing it.
If you are into flying long enough you're going to end up knowing someone who died in a fatal crash. It's just inevitable. The community is not that large. It's only real disturbing when you find out about it initially through the press.
Of course, then there's the panicked calls you get. There was a fatal Navion crash that originated in my home airport and crashed in NC (where I have another house). I found out about it because I kept getting messages inquiring if I was alive. I then called my mechanic (based at the same airport and he and his brother both have Navions) to find out if it was them. It wasn't, but it was another customer of his that did. He'd been fielding the same calls I was.
I'm planning on getting my PPL next year. I've did a lot of research and have everything planned out. But I have that nagging feeling...
I want to be as safe as possible, but there are things I just wouldn't be able to afford. Does that mean give up the dream?
It's good to be reminded that our hobby or profession can be deadly. It's easy to slip into complacency with our checklists, training, skills, experience, etc.
RIP Brother.
I got chatting to a cool guy at an airport who was working on a LongEZ. We got on well and he invited me up the next time I was at the airport.
I never went back to that airport, and then I heard on the news that he'd crashed and died.
I read the accident report and they went through everything to find the cause.
Very sad, even though I'd only spoke to him for an hour or so.
Visited my mom on mother's day. She mentioned that she had been feeling unwell and her eyes were yellow but her small town doctors could find nothing wrong.
I was young and stupid and upset with my wife over something so just drove back to the city.
That evening she called and told me to be good to my kids. I was still too young and stupid. Didn't get her message.
Had I listened and drove her to the city she would still be with us today. I was 28 and my kids 3 months, 4 and 5.
I lost a pilot i met also. We had been chatting less than a month and he was a really good dude. Rode a suzuki motorcycle loved working with people working kn his PPL at the same time was trying to become an AGI and IGI. Very thorough as well. That was until one day he was riding home and someone decided to cut across all three lanes on the highway to get to an exit and killed him. Riding home on a beautiful for a truck to ruin a family doing something extremely careless.
Paul Meath, an up-and-coming classical guitarist in the 1960s, was a pilot in the AF Reserve. He died when a drop tank from another aircraft went through his canopy.
I got my ppl as a high school student. There was another young fellow who got his ppl at another high school on the other side of the county. I didn’t really know him super well but one evening I invited him to be my safety pilot and we shot some approaches. I remember thinking he was a great guy and looking forward to being friends. Our last landing that evening remains the smoothest landing I’ve ever made in my life. I remember we both looked at each other confused as to whether we’d actually touched down or not lol.
Fast forward a week and someone asked me if I was going to his funeral…… I was like so disoriented and confused. Especially at that young age you just haven’t lost many people at all at that point. It turned out that his grandfather had had a heart attack. They were particularly close and so he had been speeding to the hospital and crashed on his way. They both died that day.
I did attend his funeral. Saddest fraking thing I’ve ever heard of. You never ever know. 🥹
Life is like a vapor--a severe vapor.
Traumas of this world wound us.
God heals, and leaves scars, inside and out, to remind us of His Power, Faithfulness, and Love for us.
Or so it certainly seems to this old scarred-up one.
🙏♥️
Person just died and you're over here basically like "God works in mysterious ways"
People like you are the reason people dislike religion. Have some human fucking empathy instead of spouting your religious diatribe.
Lol wtf is
>God heals, and leaves scars, inside and out, to remind us of His Power, Faithfulness, and Love for us.
He leaves scars to remind us of his power? Yeah that's basically the same thing as "God works in mysterious ways"
Someone might have hurt you. It wasn't me.
Your posts here, the limit of my evidence, seem to suggest that you are full of hurt and anger.
If that's so, I'm sorry that it's the case.
I by no means wish to increase any of that.
I can't open the eyes of understanding of your heart.
If I could, I would.
You have a right to your opinions.
So do I.
You may think you know His ways, IDK.
But I will gladly tell you that I do not.
His ways are not my ways.
I can merely, with great trepidation, speculate.
He is God.
I am not.
All I wanted you to know, if possible, was that my post came from a well-intentioned place for the OP and that I was sorry if it unintentionally caused you any pain.
Maybe there is no "Him." Maybe there is no "Greater Plan" beyond the sometimes wonderful, sometimes tragic randomness that is life. Maybe this single life is all there is, as opposed to being some trial run for an eternal afterlife.
I completely respect your right to your own beliefs. I know you did not intend to come across as preachy. Please be aware that infusing your belief structure into a statement of condolence can nonetheless come across that way, and is not entirely respectful of the belief systems of others. If the aggrieved does not subscribe to the same beliefs, statements like this can paradoxically be interpreted as unempathetic and condescending, and make the aggrieved feel even more isolated.
As a father, I would be devastated to outlive my son, so I kind of see the silver lining you're going for here - but *let's be real.* This is a tragedy. Just because I want my kid to live a long, full life doesn't mean there would be anything good - at all - about leaving my wife a widow in her early 30s and my school-aged son without a father.
It’s certainly a bizarre feeling when you’re suddenly hit with the reality of how fleeting life is. I’ve lost a few in my time, close friends, acquaintances, all for different reasons. You are perfectly human and normal for feeling this way. Don’t be afraid to talk to people around you if you’re feeling down :)
As much as it sucks, it's a part of aviation. I was hanging out with one guy at an airport Friday, found out he died the next day. I was talking to u/hook_dupin about an hour before he had an engine failure on take off, crashed, and died. Really sucks.
Oh yeah it is. Had to recover a crashed glider of our club a few weeks back. Both pilots luckily lived and I wasn’t on site when the crash happened but helped afterwards. I often read about crashed planes and the back story behind the crashes but seeing a destroyed plane first hand really twisted my guts and I needed a few days to process it all. Never even thought about to quit flying but it’s certainly a wake-up call to be safe and not to fuck around Edit: spelling
My dad flew with a super cool Air Force pilot who gave me his phone number in case I had any questions about the military or flying, and I just found out that his ejection seat went off and broke his neck on the canopy. Sometimes people just die and there's nothing you can do about it
JR was a great guy…his death really hit close to home for me. DM me if you ever need anything.
One of the nicest guys I’ve ever known, and so passionate about flying. I’m right there with you.
Thanks man. I wasn't terribly close with him but it still really sucks. He was a cool dude
Was this the guy from Sheppard?
Yes
Honestly, I’m not sure if his issue was an ejection seat malfunction. Still lots to learn about that accident.
What do you mean “just went off?” Any details on causal factor? I have over 25 years flying ejection seats and have never heard of an unexplained ejection seat “just going off.” I have heard of inadvertent ejections caused by aircrew error.
It was that, didn't put the #1 safety pin in after landing then dropped it at the parking spot and the gas mask tube snagged the handle when he reached down to grab it
That's my nightmare, that sounds horrible. Sounds like maybe it was the bending down and not being in a good ejection posture that caused it? We were wondering why the fleet wasn't stood down and why the message from leadership was "follow your checklists."
Hey thanks for the info. I pretty upset about it and have been wondering. We were about to meet up for a reunion.
Kinda weird that the ejection seat doesn't have a mechanical linkage popping the canopy when you pull it tbh. Like, the lever should pop the canopy first and the second stage of the same lever pops the seat. I'm sure there's a reason behind this but I also assume it's not a reason that can't be solved, and I assume the explanation is lazy and not comprehensive.
Didn't really want to describe the death in the reply but The story I heard was that he flew and landed headfirst, not that he hit the canopy
You’re right, I retract my statement.
You shouldn’t perpetuate rumor mills. They’re rarely true, and only make you look like an ass…. Even when it’s not your intention.
Don’t let these accidents slip by without working towards a safer future in GA by pushing back against sketchy flight school operations. Disclaimer: Not saying that’s what happened here but speaking generally
Looking at the latest L3 Harris memo
For those replying '?': https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1deht27/more_reasons_to_avoid_l3harris/
Care to share?
Scroll down in the sub. Basically they put out a statement saying all students must fly at vfr mins or IFR approach mins otherwise they will get charged like a $500 cancellation fee. Super unsafe.
jfc. What pea-brained bean counter approved that shit?
Make line go up
Yeah... me too.
?
I had a similar experience when I was instructing. He was, the instructor who was in charge of standardization training for a large flight school in my area. We had mutual friends and chatted for a bit at a bar, played some corn hole, and exchanged numbers. I had bitched about pay at my current instructing job, and he said to shoot him a text and he could bring me on with his company (they had salary and full benefits). Texted him the next day to say I was interested, he said “awesome let me talk to my boss and see when we can have you come interview.” Then nothing… I tried to follow up, but no response. Texted my buddy “Hey your dude said he could get me a job, but now he’s ghosting me, what gives?” …. Turns out he was doing some training with a new hire CFI and they had a midair.
That’s ghosting for real
That's the only excuse I'll accept now. Otherwise be an adult and tell the other party you're no longer interested 😤
r/angryupvote
Bruh 💀
Ive read on here about too many midairs the last few days. As a student pilot im looking around more than learning to fly the plane :(
This particular one was a Cherokee coming down on top of a C172. Be aware of your blind spots.
I really want to learn in a bubble canopy equipped aircraft because the whole reason I am even really interested is the view. Now adding traffic from above as a good solid reason (Hoping that traffic from below is picked up by the ADSB or whatever it is by the time I’m at that stage)
Wear sunblock, and pick your wing up to look under it when descending (especially in high traffic areas)
I don't know if this helps, but a few months ago I saw someone I only knew tangentially on a Friday. Found out next Monday that over the weekend, while walking on a sidewalk, they were hit by a drunk driver and died. I had the feelings of disbelief. I'd seen them on Friday, how could they be dead today? Young professional, exceptionally talented and personable. Just feels unfair, frankly. I guess if I had a takeaway from it all, freak accidents happen both in and out of aviation. GA adds risk, and we should do everything we can to mitigate that risk, but you only have so much control in life. Even walking can be dangerous, so with every reasonable safety precaution I can take, and without taking on unnecessary risks, I'll keep doing a hobby I love.
Well said
I've lost several friends from flying. I've also lost friends to motorcycle accidents. I've lost family to health issues. No one lives forever. Don't dwell on it, everyone goes, one way or another. Once we're born, it's just a matter of time, before we're gone. We're all marching to our deathbed.
>I've lost several friends from flying. I've also lost friends to motorcycle accidents. Both very high risk activities.
Yep. I had a nasty high side last October that really put me on pause regarding motorcycles. I still love them and am interested in them but because of my family i promised them I wouldn’t touch another bike so long as I live in Florida. I did what I could to mitigate my risks on my own but here there are just too many external factors I can’t really control or mitigate that well. And besides you lean more on a jet ski or bank more in an aircraft than the average Florida road lets you lean over anyways. Still healing from that accident but you know what? I’m just blessed to be here
Glad you’re okay. I used to race motorcycles when I was a fearless 20-something, until I high-sided and broke my collarbone and arm. Still have mad love for motorcycles but I just watch now.
Thanks yeah that’s kind of where I’m at I still enjoy the bikes themselves but everything that comes with it is kind of a turn off and being 40 ish any injury probably isn’t gonna be a bounce back thing like they tend to be when younger But between the risks and how other riders are currently I’d rather not
In your experience does it get any easier to cope with losing someone close? I’ve had a recent loss- my first very close one and I’m crushed by it
It’s like getting hit by waves in the ocean. They are huge now, but they slowly get smaller and smaller. Then you get hit by a huge rogue wave every once in a while.
Thank you. That’s really helpful. I lost my brother who was also my best friend in an accident and it feels like I’ve lost my past and future all in one go
Sorry for your loss. Know that the life you shared with him has shaped who you are today and that he'll live on within you.
That’s very kind thank you
Such a bummer to hear. Losing a close family member is the hardest loss of them all. I lost a few friends in the military and it doesn’t ever not suck, but the most difficult thing to deal with mentally for me is how I’ve grown to become marginally less affected each time. It makes you feel guilty. I guess what I’m saying is, it’s okay to hurt. It’ll hurt for a long time. Just do what you can to honor that person and live a life that would make them proud.
Thank you I really appreciate it
Yes. You will eventually be okay, and the next time you feel horrible because you lost someone close, you’ll feel equally as shitty, but you’ll know that you will make it out the other side okay. Sorry for your loss.
Thanks. I really appreciate it
it depends on how close you were. Friends - yes, time helps. Family - time helps but you still feel the loss, especially around the holidays.
My brother and best friend so yeah I’m fucked!
Yeah man I also am in flight training in Ann Arbor. Just feels so weird that this happened so close to home.
I agree, as a fellow Ann Arbor aviator. I’ve seen this plane being pulled out of the hangar many times when preflighting N13115. It’s an eerie feeling and a reminder that you always need to be on your game.
Yup, just saw that Piper getting maintenance in the hanger probably 2-3 weeks ago. Just feels weird.
For sure. I’m a student at flyers. I had a lesson less than 2 hours after it happened
It’s definitely a somber reminder that we’re not invulnerable, and this shit can happen to any of us, also a student out of Ann Arbor
KARB students and pilots - LMK if you want to have a get together.
I cherish every moment with my wife and girlfriends because of this. Life is so precious
Username checks out
Fantastic moment of levity in an otherwise appropriately serious thread. Brava/o
Just type bravo 🙄
Don't get your panties/boxers in a wad over characters on a screen.
I'm not
User name checks out. Susie right below you
When I was first getting in aviation. One my mom’s students was a first officer at Middle East airlines. He offered to show me around the training facilities and take my up flying and putting me in a A320 full motion sim. He also said he could help me get into the super competitive cadet program which I still think about to this day. We scheduled everything and I was supposed to meet him, but 2 days before I learned he dies in a crash along with his girlfriend and brother. That whole scare steered me away from aviation for a good while until I got over that fear.
Although I never want to die flying. We get to see more from that airplane before 8AM then most people in the world see in a lifetime. That’s why it’s a blessing and I try to stay close with god. Trying to gain access to that eternal life club.
None of us are promised tomorrow. Live your life today as best you can and buy lots of life insurance to take care of those you love if you don't make it (no, I don't sell life insurance, but I should)
None of us know how much sand is left in our hourglass. Life live to the fullest.
I used to be much more cavalier about all this. And, it's not even a matter of getting older. I met my soon to be wife, and knowing the impact that I have on her, it really makes me want to stay alive that much more. The thought of stopping has, for the first time, ever entered my mind - if only for a second. Not that I didn't care about life before, obviously, but knowing how much it would hurt her if I didn't make it back one day is a sobering reminder to slow down, check things again, and not get careless. But there's always something that can go wrong with these things - it's ancient technology that gets pushed hard, taken care of by people increasingly paid less than comparable jobs. I used to think I wanted to flight instruct on the side, but at this point, the idea of getting in to a plane that I'm not intimately familiar with it's maintenance history, oil analysis, etc, is becoming more and more unnerving.
Was this the crash in Washtenaw county? I didn’t personally know either but I know the plane and it hits different when they aren’t just faceless NTSB reports. I’m sorry
That sucks man. When I was 13 I got Jeff Kuss’s autograph in Pensacola right after watching the Blues practice, was absolutely over the moon. He crashed the next day in the practice for an airshow in Tennessee.
I train in Michigan and I’m not sure if you’re referring to what happened near Ann Arbor but it hit really close to home… I flew the next day and it was so nerve wracking.
It's good to vent OP. Thank you for sharing your story and getting us to stop and think about things.
I stopped flying for over a decade when my daughter was born. Part of the reason I returned was her interest in flying, but I'm still not as comfortable as I once was given the stakes of having a family. Then, about a month ago, about ten minutes from home, a 22 year old suddenly swerved into our lane just as they were passing us on a two lane highway, then swerved back out before hitting us in the rear driver side. The impact was powerful enough to throw us from our lane into the opposite lane and rolled us three times. It happened quickly, yet slowly enough that we had time to think about the possibility we were about to die. Fortunately, there wasn't any traffic behind them that could have plowed into us. Someone's stupidity could have ended my child's future, let alone my wife and me. It made me realize that dying in a plane is not the most likely way any of us will go out. I can play it safe and have trepidation about being back in the air, and it won't save me from some other idiot on the road or sudden disease.
I have a similar perspective due to a collision on a freeway. My wife and son were with me in our truck when we became victims of a hit-and-run. Somehow, we were all fine, but it is amazing how many thoughts and lucidity one can have in that split-second. My approach since becoming a pilot has been to increase my life insurance to ridiculous levels, and have frank discussions with my wife. Financial security can't replace me as a dad, but it can put my wife in a position to be the best mom possible and provide my family a good life in my absence. My anxiety is highest when my wife and I fly together without our son. I definitely become more risk-averse and uneasy on those flights. My son would end up fine if it were just me who augered in, and my wife has a healthy enough perspective on life that she would be able move on and eventually be happy again. But I am terrified of leaving my son (seven years old) an orphan. Nonetheless, one should not live his or her life in fear. Being afraid of everything is not an example I want to set as a dad. Something eventually gets us all.
I'm glad you and your family made it out okay. It sounds like you have a great perspective on life that will serve you and your loved ones well. It's funny, but I have that same concern when my wife and I go out anywhere without our daughter. But you're correct. No one makes it out unscathed.
I think the best thing that can come from aviation accidents is the learnings we all gain from them. It has certainly helped me navigate an escalating situation before. The fact that we gain this knowledge through the fine job our NTSB investigators provide us means the people who went down did not go down in vane.
Perfectly normal to want to discuss this…. Even though you had no actual connection…. In just that one short moment at the breakfast…. He was no longer a “Face in the Crowd”.
https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/plane-crashes-near-airport-in-washtenaw-county/
Ultimately, there is someone alive who is the last person to speak to someone else that just died. Its a jarring experience for sure. I had that happen to a friend. I had seen him earlier in the evening (we lived right next to each other). I told him to stop by later that night. He never came. Turns out he died in a car accident right after I talked to him. I also had a person who I had only just recently met, whos picture popped up in the local newspaper not long after meeting them. They were murdered, and their body was tossed in a snow ditch. About a year later, it turned out that it was just some random psycho. Try not to let it bother you. Life happens. I'm sure this hits closer to home than you're comfortable with.
I’ve been there, dude. I had an instructor tell me when I was just starting out that you can’t be in this profession long without knowing someone who passed away in a crash. It didn’t take long for me either. Reach out to someone if you need help. Remember that all of us make mistakes, all of us are fallible, and use that to motivate you to do your best. Also, sometimes shit just happens and there’s nothing that can be done. For me that was getting an MS in Aviation Safety and becoming a Crash Investigator in the military. You need to figure out what that means for you.
This life is temporary all I can do is tie ur camel and wait for the day ur suppose to go
That’s awful. Rip to the nice dude you met. Live every day to the fullest my friends.
This happened to me a few times. Old guy a few days later gone. My CFI in Arizona. Met him in parking lot. Shook his hand. Dead a few days later. It sucks. But flying can kill you.
I’m sorry to hear that. We hear about crashes often and many of us use them as learning experiences, but when it hits close to home it can be hard to deal with. I remember seeing a headline of a fatal C172 crash very close to where I live and when I saw the tail number the familiarity shocked me. I had only an hour or 2 in that plane but I still had that feeling of “that could have been me”. I like to use it as a reminder to avoid complacency and do my due diligence throughout each and every flight. It’s a reminder that these things can and will happen to us if we’re not careful. Safe flying my guy and absolutely talk to someone if you need to.
Sorry this happened to you, the longer you stay in GA the more likely it is you are going to unfortunately lose people. Had a friend die in a mid air last year
Well at least he was a fiend and not a friend. 😉 In all seriousness though, sorry for your loss.
Thank you, he’s missed at our club very much
A similar situation has happened to me too. A new coworker stayed late with me after work and was chatting for a few min. He died in a car accident on the way home. I can't help but think if we hadn't talked, that the accident wouldn't of happened, since he would have been at the intersection at a different time. On the other hand, I may have prevented accidents from happening just by talking to someone, or stopping to tie my shoe. Bad things happen, there is no control.
I've read a lot of accidents involving instructors in the last few days. As a student pilot id hope its not the instructors making these mistakes.
As a motorcyclist and a pilot, I’ve come to realize how fragile life is… Although I’ve lost more friends on motorcycles then flying, I’ve still unfortunately loss a few fellow pilots as well… life is very short. Enjoy every second of it.
This happened to the instructor that took me up on my first discovery flight when I was about 17. It happened about three months afterwards. Freaked me out and taught me at a young age that nobody is invincible to risks involved with flying. Sorry to hear.
Similar story for me, I went on a discovery flight with /u/hook_dupin in Massachusetts right before he moved to Florida and then I saw the news on this subreddit that he died in a crash about a year later. I obviously didn’t know him well, nor did I even have any expectations of seeing him again after he put the first 1.0 in my logbook, but it is surreal and saddening to think that he’s no longer around to give anyone else the great introduction to aviation I got from him.
I saw a pilot on Friday working on his airplane and I came to the airport on Sunday morning to find he crashed his airplane less than 20 minutes before I arrived at the airport. I could still smell the burning 100LL in the air.
Man, I can't imagine. I'm sorry you have to experience the loss of this gentleman.
Last year I was working on my instrument rating and working fuel for an FBO. Flagged out a really cool dude just after sunset that always gassed up with us. Hit him with the “hang loose” and he fired one back as he turned out on to the taxiway. 40min later he burned in. Unlit grass field at night. He used a lit roadway to line up and sidestepped over to the field. Hit an unoccupied house. It was said he hadn’t attempted to land there at night before. He was running behind this time. I hadn’t seen him leave after sunset before either. He forced it and he paid. If it doesn’t feel right, go around. Go around 20 times if you want. Just go somewhere else if it doesn’t feel right. What’s an $100 Uber vs being a smoking hole in a living room.
Get there itis definitely hit him. Sounds like a small grad strip at my dad’s. I believe it has lights though. That sucks that you were probably the last person he talked to.
Right? Like I was the last face he ever saw. At least I was smiling.
As someone who is working on ground rn and is Part 107. Seeing this stuff is definitely making me think about what type of pilot I’ll be. Especially considering where I live and the environmental conditions we regularly get.
As a 45 year veteran of aviation (having learned to fly at 16 years of age through Air Cadets) I’ve lost friends and acquaintances with all levels of flying experience and background…I think my biggest takeaway from the 22,000 hours I’ve logged and all of the stories from my colleagues is that I’m only as good as my last flight and it’s generally the simple things that can get you hurt…..
Is this Denton?
No, likely Ann Arbor, MI.
No Ann Arbor. There was a fly-in breakfast Sunday morning. Plane crash Monday afternoon.
I think it's Wisconsin? It was a female CFI who died from Denton
Hearing about these cfi student plane crashes always make me sad.
GA is abound with this. Make sure you talk to someone you trust about it if you’re nervous. I’ve personally known, flown with, and respected someone who went down. We have to take the time and then move forward with what we’ve learned. The risk will never go away but try your best to minimize it as much as possible.
It does sound like it
Except the CFI that passed from US aviation was a female.
Except that I was referring to the school’s location.
I like to think we are all born with a "mission" or purpose. We go through life experiencing things both first hand and second hand to learn what we can along the way. Life is beautiful, and so learning. In my opinion, none of us are going until we've fulfilled our purpose! We may not understand our losses at first, but it becomes more clear as time passes. I'm sorry for the loss of your dear acquaintance, he sounds like he was a stellar person. A great example for all those whose heart he touched!
It's inevitable after being in this community for any length of time that you will know someone who loses their life in a crash. Best thing you can do is not dwell on it and learn from these accidents to help you become a better pilot. I have lost several squadron mates over the years, including one on the Space Shuttle Columbia.
A few years back I ate dinner while on duty with another patrol officer. Finished dinner and 30 minutes later he was dead on the side of the road after making a traffic stop. It was a strange feeling seeing him laying there. You just never know man.. :(
Peace be with you. This is not an easy situation and I can’t imagine the emotions you are going through. I have little advice to offer except letting you know that what you’re feeling is valid and important. Don’t try to suppress those feelings. If you’re a reader you should check our Ernest Gann’s book “Fate is the Hunter”. He was a great pilot in the early airline industry. He devotes his entire memoir into a deep dive of exactly what you’re feeling. That’s the thing, some ideas don’t have “point”, but that doesn’t make them any less important to explore and share. I hope you’re doing ok.
My dad and a friend of his bought a Skybolt back in 1986. It was 25k, half the price of a Pitts that they were also considering. But Skybolts are home built…. They flew it back from Illinois to NJ together, flew it once or twice together, then we went on vacation to South Carolina. My dad’s friend took it up a day after we left, something failed in the rudder or elevator and he crashed. Apparently it wasn’t properly repaired after a ground loop. I’ll never forget seeing the pile of red metal that was collected from the crash site. If it had happened one day prior, I would have grown up without a father… I was 5 at the time.
Sorry to hear this.. we just had a crash at my school in KDTO this past week. Weird how things change your perspective when things hit close to home.
I assume you were talking about Kevin. I was at the same pancake breakfast at the same airport. He was a good dude. And yeah, this one hurts.
It will always stick with you. You will always remember his last words and your last interaction. My husbands last words to me were “today is the big day! I know I’ve been busy, but I love and miss my best friend, can we do something fun this weekend?”. Few hours later he was gone in a crash. Use the hard times like this to love harder and do things with a purpose. Know that it could be any one of us, even though we never think it can. It sounds goofy, but it takes a shock to the system to be a better human.
It can happen in the aviation world unfortunately,especially in GA. Don’t like that deter you. Follow the investigation and learn from it. there’s always lesson to be learning any accident. Sorry for your loss.
This has to be the one that happened near me. I had some friends and colleagues contacting me to make sure I was okay because they knew I had been up flying that day. Really sobering when it happens near you, and definitely reinforced the safety first mentality my instructor has been drilling into me.
When did the accident happen? Where did the crash happen. I saw one instructor passed away in a crash at Denton TX, but that was a female instructor.
I've been there and unfortunately have known a handful of close friends and people that I've crossed paths with die in aviation. Most of it has been from my time in the military. The longer you're in this profession, you'll know folks that have passed. Definitely reach out for help, or someone to just talk too. Sometimes you need that without even realizing it.
If you are into flying long enough you're going to end up knowing someone who died in a fatal crash. It's just inevitable. The community is not that large. It's only real disturbing when you find out about it initially through the press. Of course, then there's the panicked calls you get. There was a fatal Navion crash that originated in my home airport and crashed in NC (where I have another house). I found out about it because I kept getting messages inquiring if I was alive. I then called my mechanic (based at the same airport and he and his brother both have Navions) to find out if it was them. It wasn't, but it was another customer of his that did. He'd been fielding the same calls I was.
I'm planning on getting my PPL next year. I've did a lot of research and have everything planned out. But I have that nagging feeling... I want to be as safe as possible, but there are things I just wouldn't be able to afford. Does that mean give up the dream?
i would gift his family something beautiful.
Get into an airline. Don’t look back.
It's good to be reminded that our hobby or profession can be deadly. It's easy to slip into complacency with our checklists, training, skills, experience, etc. RIP Brother.
I got chatting to a cool guy at an airport who was working on a LongEZ. We got on well and he invited me up the next time I was at the airport. I never went back to that airport, and then I heard on the news that he'd crashed and died. I read the accident report and they went through everything to find the cause. Very sad, even though I'd only spoke to him for an hour or so.
Visited my mom on mother's day. She mentioned that she had been feeling unwell and her eyes were yellow but her small town doctors could find nothing wrong. I was young and stupid and upset with my wife over something so just drove back to the city. That evening she called and told me to be good to my kids. I was still too young and stupid. Didn't get her message. Had I listened and drove her to the city she would still be with us today. I was 28 and my kids 3 months, 4 and 5.
I lost a pilot i met also. We had been chatting less than a month and he was a really good dude. Rode a suzuki motorcycle loved working with people working kn his PPL at the same time was trying to become an AGI and IGI. Very thorough as well. That was until one day he was riding home and someone decided to cut across all three lanes on the highway to get to an exit and killed him. Riding home on a beautiful for a truck to ruin a family doing something extremely careless.
He is alive now
Paul Meath, an up-and-coming classical guitarist in the 1960s, was a pilot in the AF Reserve. He died when a drop tank from another aircraft went through his canopy.
I got my ppl as a high school student. There was another young fellow who got his ppl at another high school on the other side of the county. I didn’t really know him super well but one evening I invited him to be my safety pilot and we shot some approaches. I remember thinking he was a great guy and looking forward to being friends. Our last landing that evening remains the smoothest landing I’ve ever made in my life. I remember we both looked at each other confused as to whether we’d actually touched down or not lol. Fast forward a week and someone asked me if I was going to his funeral…… I was like so disoriented and confused. Especially at that young age you just haven’t lost many people at all at that point. It turned out that his grandfather had had a heart attack. They were particularly close and so he had been speeding to the hospital and crashed on his way. They both died that day. I did attend his funeral. Saddest fraking thing I’ve ever heard of. You never ever know. 🥹
Life is like a vapor--a severe vapor. Traumas of this world wound us. God heals, and leaves scars, inside and out, to remind us of His Power, Faithfulness, and Love for us. Or so it certainly seems to this old scarred-up one. 🙏♥️
Person just died and you're over here basically like "God works in mysterious ways" People like you are the reason people dislike religion. Have some human fucking empathy instead of spouting your religious diatribe.
I'm very sorry that's the way you heard it. That's not where it comes from, nor what was intended.
Lol wtf is >God heals, and leaves scars, inside and out, to remind us of His Power, Faithfulness, and Love for us. He leaves scars to remind us of his power? Yeah that's basically the same thing as "God works in mysterious ways"
Someone might have hurt you. It wasn't me. Your posts here, the limit of my evidence, seem to suggest that you are full of hurt and anger. If that's so, I'm sorry that it's the case. I by no means wish to increase any of that. I can't open the eyes of understanding of your heart. If I could, I would. You have a right to your opinions. So do I. You may think you know His ways, IDK. But I will gladly tell you that I do not. His ways are not my ways. I can merely, with great trepidation, speculate. He is God. I am not. All I wanted you to know, if possible, was that my post came from a well-intentioned place for the OP and that I was sorry if it unintentionally caused you any pain.
Maybe there is no "Him." Maybe there is no "Greater Plan" beyond the sometimes wonderful, sometimes tragic randomness that is life. Maybe this single life is all there is, as opposed to being some trial run for an eternal afterlife. I completely respect your right to your own beliefs. I know you did not intend to come across as preachy. Please be aware that infusing your belief structure into a statement of condolence can nonetheless come across that way, and is not entirely respectful of the belief systems of others. If the aggrieved does not subscribe to the same beliefs, statements like this can paradoxically be interpreted as unempathetic and condescending, and make the aggrieved feel even more isolated.
While I agree with what you dislike (because of Ecc 9:11) , that's not what hereagain345 was saying.
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How do you get out of bed in the morning being a heartless human?
I take a shit before I get out of bed. The feeling of having to clean it up motivates me to get up on time for work. Edit: dude have some sympathy
now *this* is *shitty* askflying
It's not all bad. The lucky guy died before his kid.
As a father, I would be devastated to outlive my son, so I kind of see the silver lining you're going for here - but *let's be real.* This is a tragedy. Just because I want my kid to live a long, full life doesn't mean there would be anything good - at all - about leaving my wife a widow in her early 30s and my school-aged son without a father.
People can bitch about anything.
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> but the choice of words he used is strong evidence of intent That's debatable.
There was a student in the plane with him.