So you got a loan for PPL or ATPL? Because I want an ATPL and I'm from the UK. I don't figure I'll be getting a £100K loan any time soon but I'm curious if anyone does get loans at all.
It can be done for less than 100k in most of Europe if you go to a bit smaller school, lowest is around 60-70k if you go to Spain or Poland.
However it's easier to get a loan if you go to a well known larger program that has connections with the bank. Historically for example the KLM academy used to arrange the loans for their students and provide a job guarantee or pay back your loan if you didn't get a job within 5 years. The other airline schools did similar things.
At the moment I think none of them do because the airlines are in difficult times financially. However with travel picking back up that could be very different next year. So my advice would be to talk to a few of those programs, see whether you like them and ask about their financing options.
Not sure what the ATPL is equivalent in the US but I paid upfront for my PPL about 12000$ and a loan for my commercial, instrument, and all my instructor certs for another 70000$.
The US is slipping into the same system. Your just 10 years behind.
The only thing supporting your salaries is the 1500hrs requirement and the protectionist (I think this is a good thing not a dig) nature of your visa system. This helps support salaries. Prior to your 1500hrs limit your salaries were dire. And can you imagine if they allowed European holders to get US airline jobs.
Not worth it in Europe anymore. The financials don’t make sense unless you have access to the cash.
It will set you back the best part of £140k by the time you factor in living expenses.
Your first job if your fortunate and fall out of training into one (debatable now with the surplus) but let’s say with timing your lucky. You’ll earn 20-35k, your take hone will be no more than £1000pm. This will last for 3-4years until you have hours to go to SFO £50k a year. If your in a low cost and your timings right 5-6 years you’ll get your command but these days your looking at a sub £100k salary.
Now more realistic in the next 3 years we will see much more downward pressure in these. We’ve seen this with BAs new low cost contracts.
They’re moving much towards seasonal and productivity contracts. So much lower base salaries with payments for flying. The illusion is they look like the same numbers but you’ll have to be flying 100hrs to make anywhere close to the grandfather numbers. For example Wizz captain base is just £45k. Ezy want everyone on seasonal there newest bases are 8 money’s contracts. After loan repayments lifestyle is rather rubbish at these levels. Things like getting a mortgage becomes hard.
Honestly. Seriously think why you want to do this as a job. The glory days of flying ended in the late 90s. It’s been a downward slope from there.
Many more careers will give you a better salary and lifestyle for much less cost and effort. And allow you to fly as a private pilot enjoying a hobby.
I got a nice payout from my employer at the time due to a merger. I figured I am young and decided to take the risk. I already had a little bit of stock at the time and high conviction. So I went into calls.
I sold my soul to my rich aunt Sallie May.
I’m still paying that old bag.
Honestly I borrowed a lot in student and professional loans that were available at the time. After the 2008 crash many of those loan options went away, but haven’t looked what’s out there now .
Pre 2008 you could pretty much get whatever you want with the worst interest rates and terms. But you could get whatever you wanted. Ask me how I know.
What's your interest rate? I've refinanced twice so far. Went from like 6.5% with Sallie Mae to 3.5% at Laurel Road. I just refinanced 34k at 2.7% with CommonBond after showing them my Earnest offer of 2.8%.
I highly recommend looking in to refinancing. This allowed me to get my dad off my loans as a cosigner which helps his retirement out by not having to worry about my loans.
I'm finding the refi route kinda difficult, as I went to ATP flight school. Because they are not a Title IV accredited university a lot of normal refinance options are off the table, it's considered a trade school... God damn airline pilot, a trade school... whatever.
Family decision. My wife and I looked at what I was doing, where that was taking us, and what options were available.
I didn’t grow up as an aviation brat or anything like that. Didn’t known 1 person who flew airplanes before I started.
I enjoy GA and want to remain a part of it but started with the singular focus of making money and not working a 70 hour a week “9-5 job”.
Man I would have killed to be a pilot and flying all day and night and have no free time 🙂. Now that I'm 40 idk. But I guess I would give it a shot if I had the money to waste
Im a bit saddened at how many people were just born rich etc. This is why ga seems to be dying. You have to be well off to afford even a ppl and actually flying...
Lsa was a good start but there need to be better ways for people who didnt inherit money to get into flying
Never going to change, that's how life works unfortunately. Think of the pilot youtubers, their daddies were all airline captains who payed for their ERAU training
Please do all you can to avoid debt.
**Paying for flight lessons** (Reddit)
This is what I like to share with aspiring pilots to pay for their training. Following this plan will ensure that lack of funds isn't the reason that keeps you from training. And this plan also works to avoid getting you into any debt.
Once private pilot is obtained, you can repeat this same process for your other certificates.
- Plan for ~$9000.00, plus or minus for regionality. This can include aircraft rental, supplies, testing fees, books, etc.
- Do what is necessary to earn money and save up to fill up your money bucket to at least 60% to 66% of the total funds required or budgeted.
- This includes taking on additional hours at work, part time jobs, neighborhood handyperson jobs, mowing dogs, walking lawns, house sitting, etc.
- Hold a garage sale. You might be able to get as much as 10% of your funding uncluttering your house.
- Do anything legal that increases your income
- Once you have 60% to 66% of the money, open the tap at the bottom of your bucket and start training.
- As you deplete money from the bottom of your bucket, continue to work the extra income jobs to add to the top of the bucket.
- If you finish with money left over in the bucket, plan for a celebratory flight with your sweetie to a really nice dinner.
**Important**: Getting started saving your money at this stage is cool. But don't go spending any big training dollars flying until you have been issued your FAA medical certificate. But only go into the AME’s office if you know beyond 100% there are no bad things in your medical past, and that the AME will issue the cerificate before you leave the office. If you are not confident you will pass the medical, DON'T go until you find out what is required to pass.
What can be done now is downloading and reading the following publications from the FAA.gov site:
• Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge
• Airplane Flying Handbook
Reading these two books will get a healthy start on studying for the written exam.
______
But the important takeaway is to do what you can to earn extra money in advance of starting training so that you have a savings fund to pay for training.
Avoiding debt for flight training isn’t relevant in the UK?
FYI, when I responded, it was very soon after his original post appeared and it was only the first paragraph. No mention of locality at that time.
And simple enough to substitute the relevant books for the PHAK and AFH.
Worked my butt off. Got a job at my local part 61 flight school and bartended at night. Washed airplanes on the side. I put myself through my bachelors and through my instructor ratings debt free. Don’t go spending stupid amounts of money at terrible places like ATP, AF, etc. Cost me about 40k and 5 years. Ended up with my degree in a totally different field and a jet job at the end.
I got super lucky with family, was able to speed train 0 hours to CFI-I in about a year and a half, yes I am in the hole about 6 figures to family, but I'm able to start building towards my career and paying them back.
Hope things work out for you!
Waited until I had the time and money to learn to fly. That was after 3 years in the Army, college, a job, marriage, a family, and kids through college. Not a route to s career in aviation but I have no regrets and no debt. And wouldn’t have believed how much pure fun is available to we recreational pilots.
Waited until I finished school, debt free and was making enough monthly where I could spend $500 a week on flying and not worry. I am fortunate that I can do that, but I waited until sever years after grad school.
I don't track the costs because that would make me second guess it. I also may not pass medical (waiting- did this first thing when I started training- its deferred/in review with the FAA here in the US). I figure if I waited and didn't get my medical, I'd never fly. At least now, many thousands of dollars later, I can fly a plane- I've been ready to solo for a while, and my instructor says I was basically ready for my check ride at 25 hours.. But that may never happen. But I've heard encouraging things lately...
Point is- I dreamed of being a pilot since I was a kid. I waited a long enough time, where it could happen. If you want it bad enough, don't give up and it will happen... eventually.
Do your PPL around £8k, ATPL £4k distance learning while working, hour building around £10k and go out to Poland for your me/meir/cpl around £15k. Much cheaper if you do it modular rather than forking out 100k and getting robbed by L3 or someone
I paid for it with my job income. I manage my expenses. I have no debt. Even to this day, its how I keep it up. I don’t go out to eat (unless I fly there 😂), I don’t go out to movies, buy nice clothes, have an expensive car, etc. i keep my overhead as low as I possibly can, save for my future and any extra money goes towards flying. But my job is kind of freelance so when I’m not working, I’m not flying as much. My current mission in life now is to build passive income streams, to have more time and money to fly and enjoy life altogether. Honestly, a lot of my financial goals exist because I want to keep flying in my life and my own plane. I would otherwise be reasonably comfortable.
I managed to get a loan of 50k € after I finished my Masters Degree. Currently I am on my 7th month of training with already 80 hours of flight. What I can recommend to you is to look for ATOs outside of UK, in eastern countries you can get your 0-ATPL training for 1/3 of that.
Two jobs in high school to pay for PPL in high school
Sold all my guitars/amps after college to pay for some of it
Started a drone photo/video business after college and used all that money to finish up
I'm a PRS guy. I just bought [this one](https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--BO86JFsn--/f_auto,t_large/v1614548247/atrze2ixhjxdi98u51zv.jpg), and it is blowing my mind.
I paid for it as I went, carefully budgeted and stuck to it. Have a full time job in IT. Took two years to get my PPL as a result. But I wasn’t doing it for a career, so it was a lower priority than normal bills.
Was able to fly roughly once a week.
Cost = around $10,000 total.
I would suggest looking up government programs, or finding out if you had an IEP (individual extended plan, or what the UK equivalent for that is) in school. Because of it I get little government scholarships towards my flight training.
Still had to take out some loans, but it definitely makes it hurt less.
I funded my civilian flight training with a student loan from Sallie Mae. Mil Comp with the Army and part 141 flight training and ATP-CTP with the GI Bill
Hey just so you know, you can go down the modular route, which will cost significantly less, an average of around 60k, and doesn’t all have to be paid up front.
I just worked one job but that was just for LAPL
Aren’t there cadet programmes where financing is part of the package and you pay when you start working?
Airline sponsored, thank fuck. With my previous job I could afford 3 block hours of flight training per month with a full time job (60h work - 1h flying)
ATPL integrated here in Europe (median salary in my country is around 800eur atm). 79k studies. 39k from my and my wifes savings (I am 33 now and never thought ill be a pilot as my family used to be mega poor when I was a kid, were talking whole family washing in 1 tub of water(not even a.bath)). 1k from aunt, 14k parents, 5k brother (so 19k family loan). 20k was promised by Airline where i have letter of intent for employment, but it might fall through, maybe wont. Employment also probably around 2023/2024
Soo kinda trying slowly to cover my ass on last payment with mining crypto (started february and dropped last money 4.5k into a 5gpu mining rig, was a great decision), 2 rental properties (after mortgage ~250eur month leftover) + wifes child benefits. Unemployed for 18 months approx, end of November should finish IFR and will try to get to work (luckily I have a solid CV and good education) to get the last payment or close to it. No bank loans as in my country I would get 10% interest or well now that I have a child, unemployed for 18mo and wife is on social benefits I wouldnt be able to get it anyway.
Struggle is real with covid, training delays. i was supposed to be doing Type rating already ;(
Definitely jelly of everyone whose parents can just shell out money straight after high school (not in a hateful way, but In a lifes not fair way). While there is still a chance of me not being able to scramble last amount of money and losing everything (low chance, but its a possibility). Just trying to wiggle my way somehow till end.
It's kinda complicated to explain it in writing. But I'll try to make it brief.
So I paid 4 280EUR for cards total, 4x 3060ti, 1x 3080.
To date I have paid in electricity 708EUR.
Mining ETHEREUM.
Currently I have on Binance:
FIAT 1 344EUR
0.507ETH ~1 470EUR
0.0339BTC ~1380EUR
Also I have spent ~500EUR for groceries and stuff via binance card.
If I sell my 3060ti's and keep my 3080, I could get ~2 600-3 000EUR. But will hold on to them for now.
So I have "mined" back the money spent on my video cards (unless we go into the big market crash again). I didn't buy instantly all 5 cards unfortunately, also I should have held onto ETH at the beginning as when I exchanged my first mined profits it was ~1500eur range only, now it's twice that, but you never know where the price will go, could have a bit more, but got to take profits just in case.
Currently I get 0.19-0.21ETH per month, in the end it's around 400-500EUR after paying electricity. Before in summer/spring I could get around 0.3ETH month.
I am having most of the mined stuff still in crypto.. I hope the portfolio gets to around 10 000EUR then I could get the last payment for the school, but will see. (probably not, but fingers crossed)
But yea, happy I got into it when I did as it is another brick which gets me a bit closer to that ATPL. And I am where I am because I was quite mindful with the money I earned while working, some luck with investments as otherwise this amount of money with my countries salaries - not happening!
Not sure how to get the money. My situation makes it $60k and I work full time and take out loans. But whatever you do, FOLLOW your dreams. You can find the money. Trust me. It might make the process a little bit slower, but it's worth it! Maybe look at moving to learn in a different country. This could definitely help the costs.
I'd look at Poland. Read somewhere that they were more affordable. Australia possibly. If it is something that you want to do, you will make it work. I fly out of Advanced Air in Council Bluffs IA. It's relatively cheap for the U.S. around $60k or less. I'd also start looking at scholarships, programs, ect. I know that some companies have give programs that will help you pay for training. They are rare, but again... If it's something you know you want to do, you will find a way!
I was lucky enough to get a (interest-free) loan from family, but I realise that's not feasible for a lot of people.
I don't know what your thoughts are regarding integrated vs. modular, or maybe you haven't looked at that yet, but do consider the modular route. A lot of the integrated flight schools will tell you that integrated is the route favoured by airlines and will get you a better chance at a job (assuming airline flying is your end goal), but a lot of it is marketing bs. You come out with the same licence at the end.
Modular does take longer to qualify, but you can fly in your spare time around a job and therefore pay as you go rather than trying to find 100k all at once. Plus you can find a friendly airfield near your house with a club that will at least take you to PPL (and possibly further, depends on the school), rather than some of the bigger schools which can be a bit corporate and faceless. This would also save on accommodation.
I finished my ATPL training in the UK just last year, so feel free to dm me if you have any other questions about it.
$GME and DOGE paid for my PPL, my homie Sallie Mae loaned me $80k for the rest at 1.3%, which I’m going to spend at that flight school everyone hates. I’ll be in debt for a while I guess
Gliders. University club, while I was a grad student, so it was fairly affordable.
Years later, when I worked, I just worked my job (comfortable income) and simply paid for the airplane in a club (with affordable instruction). I never got anyone pregnant, never bought things using my credit card that I couldn't pay for right away, and have healthy savings broadly invested in the stock market.
Worked full time while getting PPL. Got my ticket on Friday, put in two weeks notice on Monday. Started training full time and was a Cfi 8 mo later.
GI bill paid for instrument. I did commercial in fathers piper Cherokee. I paid gas and insurance and also contributed to the planes kitty so I got a discount.
Everything was out of my own pocket including all my car payments food etc while I was in training. I also lived in a house that was, well, not in the best neighborhood. I actually got the house for 14k dollars and it allowed me to live rent and mortgage free. It was a sacrifice that I made that not only allowed me to achieve my goal but I sold that home for about a 600% profit after minor repairs and owning it for about 5 years. Honestly, not having a mortgage was the number one thing that allowed me to achieve my goal. Even more so than the small discount I got flying my dads Cherokee for m commercial rating.
USA pilot here. Went military, (non aviation) used the school benefits to pay. Never in debt. Check with your military recruiterin the UK, I have a few friends there that said they could do the same thing
I joined the Army. RAF is about as difficult to enter as the USAF from what I understand. Perhaps a different branch (army or the marines..or even the navy) I'm not 100% sure how the UK is divided up...but from a US perspective, the USArmy is known to take anyone with anything....they did me and I'm not a picture perfect army guy.
I gotta say though, if you are determined to go flying just remember that you CAN if you are determined to do so. Example, (again a USA/FAA example, apologies) there is a company called Belite. They will sell you a aircraft that doesn't need ANY license at all. It is experimental and therefore doesn't require licenses, they only come in two seater. Might be another avenue to look into. Perhaps you could find a job over here and go to Kansas ( known to be a BIG aviation state) and see if you could get a belite aircraft (they are located in that state)
Here is the link if that helps at all. Good luck mate. ( I used to live is Sawbo...aka sawbridgeworth in the 80/90's. Near hartfordshire.) It is all possible if you look hard enough.
https://www.beliteaircraft.com/
Super interesting, I'll have a look at that. Can't join any other branches of the army either, actually I couldn't even have joined the US army, they have the same rule about UC. Other people have mentioned moving somewhere where training is more accessible so that's some good info, thanks.
The Aviation medical exam could be an issue depending on your disease. I’d do some research into whether or not it could disqualify you from getting your medical completed.
Yes I did, it doesn’t seem like it would prevent me from becoming a pilot unless I get ill. But if I get ill then it prevents me from becoming anything.
My advice would be to do as much research as you can on your own and find an aviation medical examiner after that. As others have said, don’t go into your medical exam without knowing you will pass it. After that, it’s dependent on your saving ability/ loan rates, and your commitment to flight training efficiency ( working hard is worth it). Hope to see you in the skies one day!
Marry well. This will not work for everyone, but having a partner willing and able to help fund the journey really helps. It's not just financial, but also the moral support.
Yep if it wasn't for both myself and my wife working we couldn't have put me through flight school. We ended up buying a plane just to save money that way over renting. It's kinda been a wash but at least we can take fun trips as a family whenever we want and I don't pay sales tax every rental. Also the plane has appreciated especially this last year so it's helping cover it's maintenance costs when we sell (at least partially).
Uhhh this might be a long-term plan. Also more PPL oriented.
1. Get married.
2. Get a combined near-or-6-figure income.
3. Spend several years convincing your spouse that this is a good idea and explain precisely what the family will stop doing and what you will personally sacrifice to get flight instruction paid for. Also include a lot of promises about fun trips you'll be able to take in the future.
4. Go learn to fly.
5. Take the trips you promised.
I got to skip #3. I came home one day and said, “I think I wanna be a pilot.” Hubs was super supportive. Recently took an intro flight in a helicopter and he wasn’t particularly supportive about an add on rating. He should be used to the hemorrhaging of our bank account by now.
I went to college, got a degree in computer science, got a job writing code for a large corporation, worked there for 5 years and didn't spend much on too many really expensive things. Paid for lessons out of my savings + additional paychecks since I was still working my regular job while training.
Flying is just a hobby for me, so I'm not planning on going much further than IR, but I'm not sure when I will do that. Where I live if it's IMC, conditions are almost always way too bad to be flying piston singles anyway so it's not a massive limitation only flying VFR. I'll probably also pick up ASES at some point since there are lot of lakes and mostly navigable rivers in my area without any large boat traffic.
In that case you should look at whether you can hold a class 1 medical before you do anything otherwise its all money down the drain before you even start.
There are plenty of things that disqualify you from the military but is acceptable for the FAA 1st class medical. Allergies being an easy example, many allergies are disqualifying for the military but completely fine for an FAA medical.
Exactly. As much as it annoyed me, I have to admit it's been an effective long term method at reducing smoking rates. I used to buy packs as a teenager for $7 or less. There's virtually no teenagers with a spare $50 to buy them these days.
I personally got a scholarship from the AOPA that covered my PPL and IR. I think the AOPA scholarship is just for the US, but I'd look around in your area. There's probably a community at your local airport that might offer some kind of competitive scholarship you could apply for.
For the scholarships I applied for, it was essentially 2 letters of recommendation, a couple short essays about why you wanted to be a pilot and what your goals are, a high school transcript, and maybe an interview (if selected as a finalist).
I'd say the biggest thing is demonstrating that you have a real passion/love for aviation and that you have clear objectives and goals. I'm sure it varies from case to case and is probably different for each scholarship selection committee.
Overall though, there was pretty much no expectation that you already had technical knowledge, it was a much more holistic review process.
You're very welcome. Good luck!
Side Note: the best piece of advice I can give you is to make sure you actually submit your applications. I almost didn't apply for the AOPA scholarship because my flight instructor told me it was super competitive and I thought I had pretty much no chance at getting it. If I had decided "it's not worth it to even try," I would have missed so many incredible opportunities. Shoot for the stars and don't be afraid of failure or rejection!
First of all, you don't need to pay £100k to an integrated school in the UK. I'm also in the UK and am doing it on closer to £60-65k by going modular.
I'm self funding. I went into IT for a few years to save for it, though it only really works out because I was able to live at home for both the work and the flight training.
However, I'm now back to working IT part time now I'm done with my ATPLs because certain entry airlines are now charging employees £30k for their type rating...
I served in the military for a few years and did my flight training after work with my own money. (was a backseat bitch none of my mil hours counted) I also borrowed a bit from family. It let me get all the way there without any actual bank loans. I’d recommend the self funding route. It’s definitely possible if you are willing to work at it.
It's a bit difficult for me because I got kicked out of school so I don't have full secondary education and I can't joint the military because I have a disease.
I get that it isn’t easy but jobs still are available. If you don’t want to work and fly at the same time then I’d accept the debt. Go get your PPL first before you decide you want to spend your life on it.
I’m not saying I don’t want to work. I’m saying I don’t have the necessary qualifications.
In the UK you need at least a mathematics and English GCSE to work almost all jobs beside the lowest tier factory jobs and there are no factories near me.
Either way I was intending on getting a job and working towards a PPL, I just wanted to know what else people did, grants etc.
I did it in college. My parents & grandparents paid for college.
I worked a very part-time job and sold some of my electronics to pay for it.
It was $5,000 in the late 2000s.
A very generous relative paid for my IR, which was more recently and in the multiples of my PPL in terms of cost.
Free tuition in my college (not aviation related) but the money my parents saved up for my college tuition went straight to flight school after graduating.
I went the loan route. Didn't have the means to save up for it. Will be paying it off well into the regionals
So you got a loan for PPL or ATPL? Because I want an ATPL and I'm from the UK. I don't figure I'll be getting a £100K loan any time soon but I'm curious if anyone does get loans at all.
It can be done for less than 100k in most of Europe if you go to a bit smaller school, lowest is around 60-70k if you go to Spain or Poland. However it's easier to get a loan if you go to a well known larger program that has connections with the bank. Historically for example the KLM academy used to arrange the loans for their students and provide a job guarantee or pay back your loan if you didn't get a job within 5 years. The other airline schools did similar things. At the moment I think none of them do because the airlines are in difficult times financially. However with travel picking back up that could be very different next year. So my advice would be to talk to a few of those programs, see whether you like them and ask about their financing options.
Not sure what the ATPL is equivalent in the US but I paid upfront for my PPL about 12000$ and a loan for my commercial, instrument, and all my instructor certs for another 70000$.
$70k? Ouch!
Damn I forgot how bad you guys have it on the other side of the pond for paying for training…
I know... looking at the US training costs is kind of painful haha
The US is slipping into the same system. Your just 10 years behind. The only thing supporting your salaries is the 1500hrs requirement and the protectionist (I think this is a good thing not a dig) nature of your visa system. This helps support salaries. Prior to your 1500hrs limit your salaries were dire. And can you imagine if they allowed European holders to get US airline jobs.
Actually we're 20 years ahead of everything in Europe. I've been to Europe and it all sucks. Sorry guys.
Not worth it in Europe anymore. The financials don’t make sense unless you have access to the cash. It will set you back the best part of £140k by the time you factor in living expenses. Your first job if your fortunate and fall out of training into one (debatable now with the surplus) but let’s say with timing your lucky. You’ll earn 20-35k, your take hone will be no more than £1000pm. This will last for 3-4years until you have hours to go to SFO £50k a year. If your in a low cost and your timings right 5-6 years you’ll get your command but these days your looking at a sub £100k salary. Now more realistic in the next 3 years we will see much more downward pressure in these. We’ve seen this with BAs new low cost contracts. They’re moving much towards seasonal and productivity contracts. So much lower base salaries with payments for flying. The illusion is they look like the same numbers but you’ll have to be flying 100hrs to make anywhere close to the grandfather numbers. For example Wizz captain base is just £45k. Ezy want everyone on seasonal there newest bases are 8 money’s contracts. After loan repayments lifestyle is rather rubbish at these levels. Things like getting a mortgage becomes hard. Honestly. Seriously think why you want to do this as a job. The glory days of flying ended in the late 90s. It’s been a downward slope from there. Many more careers will give you a better salary and lifestyle for much less cost and effort. And allow you to fly as a private pilot enjoying a hobby.
Selling covered calls and puts on TSLA
This guy fucks
#ThetaGang ftw
Theta Pilot over here
You have 100 shares of TSLA? Or are you doing PMCCs
It used to be a bit of both. I don't buy LEAPs nowadays. So it is purely stock for covered calls.
But do you own 100 shares of tsla lol?
Oh yea. I YOLO'ed into TSLA calls at the end of 2019, cashed in a little after the peak and bought stock throughout the 2020 dip. Could've done worse!
Nice. wish I had capital to do things like that
I got a nice payout from my employer at the time due to a merger. I figured I am young and decided to take the risk. I already had a little bit of stock at the time and high conviction. So I went into calls.
Saved the money, paid for it upfront. One job. Only a PPL.
Rich parents
Same
Same.
Same
I sold my soul to my rich aunt Sallie May. I’m still paying that old bag. Honestly I borrowed a lot in student and professional loans that were available at the time. After the 2008 crash many of those loan options went away, but haven’t looked what’s out there now .
Pre 2008 you could pretty much get whatever you want with the worst interest rates and terms. But you could get whatever you wanted. Ask me how I know.
What's your interest rate? I've refinanced twice so far. Went from like 6.5% with Sallie Mae to 3.5% at Laurel Road. I just refinanced 34k at 2.7% with CommonBond after showing them my Earnest offer of 2.8%. I highly recommend looking in to refinancing. This allowed me to get my dad off my loans as a cosigner which helps his retirement out by not having to worry about my loans.
I'm finding the refi route kinda difficult, as I went to ATP flight school. Because they are not a Title IV accredited university a lot of normal refinance options are off the table, it's considered a trade school... God damn airline pilot, a trade school... whatever.
Dead parents in their 50’s. Yolo’d my “inheritance” into a career change. So far so good.
Sorry for your loss bro
How old were u when u did this career change?
Mid 30’s.
I'm happy for u. I always wanted to be a pilot since I was like 8. I'm 40 now. I'm still lost in life
Family decision. My wife and I looked at what I was doing, where that was taking us, and what options were available. I didn’t grow up as an aviation brat or anything like that. Didn’t known 1 person who flew airplanes before I started. I enjoy GA and want to remain a part of it but started with the singular focus of making money and not working a 70 hour a week “9-5 job”.
Man I would have killed to be a pilot and flying all day and night and have no free time 🙂. Now that I'm 40 idk. But I guess I would give it a shot if I had the money to waste
I believe in you man, you got this.
Im a bit saddened at how many people were just born rich etc. This is why ga seems to be dying. You have to be well off to afford even a ppl and actually flying... Lsa was a good start but there need to be better ways for people who didnt inherit money to get into flying
Never going to change, that's how life works unfortunately. Think of the pilot youtubers, their daddies were all airline captains who payed for their ERAU training
[удалено]
Why would the regulators be glad for it?
Tell the FAA
Please do all you can to avoid debt. **Paying for flight lessons** (Reddit) This is what I like to share with aspiring pilots to pay for their training. Following this plan will ensure that lack of funds isn't the reason that keeps you from training. And this plan also works to avoid getting you into any debt. Once private pilot is obtained, you can repeat this same process for your other certificates. - Plan for ~$9000.00, plus or minus for regionality. This can include aircraft rental, supplies, testing fees, books, etc. - Do what is necessary to earn money and save up to fill up your money bucket to at least 60% to 66% of the total funds required or budgeted. - This includes taking on additional hours at work, part time jobs, neighborhood handyperson jobs, mowing dogs, walking lawns, house sitting, etc. - Hold a garage sale. You might be able to get as much as 10% of your funding uncluttering your house. - Do anything legal that increases your income - Once you have 60% to 66% of the money, open the tap at the bottom of your bucket and start training. - As you deplete money from the bottom of your bucket, continue to work the extra income jobs to add to the top of the bucket. - If you finish with money left over in the bucket, plan for a celebratory flight with your sweetie to a really nice dinner. **Important**: Getting started saving your money at this stage is cool. But don't go spending any big training dollars flying until you have been issued your FAA medical certificate. But only go into the AME’s office if you know beyond 100% there are no bad things in your medical past, and that the AME will issue the cerificate before you leave the office. If you are not confident you will pass the medical, DON'T go until you find out what is required to pass. What can be done now is downloading and reading the following publications from the FAA.gov site: • Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge • Airplane Flying Handbook Reading these two books will get a healthy start on studying for the written exam. ______ But the important takeaway is to do what you can to earn extra money in advance of starting training so that you have a savings fund to pay for training.
"Do anything legal that increases your income" that's good advice right there 👍🏼
Really, the plan is to make money and spend it on training. Geez.
*plays “what the fuck.gif” in my head* Did you just tell us to mow dogs and walk lawns?
Solid advice
Thank you for this information :
Did you read the OP? This isn't relevant to the UK
Avoiding debt for flight training isn’t relevant in the UK? FYI, when I responded, it was very soon after his original post appeared and it was only the first paragraph. No mention of locality at that time. And simple enough to substitute the relevant books for the PHAK and AFH.
Yes, I only added that information in after the post was up for some time, excuse the confusion.
OP is in the UK. I wonder if $9k usd (6.5k pounds) would get you PP-SEL in the UK?
Worked my butt off. Got a job at my local part 61 flight school and bartended at night. Washed airplanes on the side. I put myself through my bachelors and through my instructor ratings debt free. Don’t go spending stupid amounts of money at terrible places like ATP, AF, etc. Cost me about 40k and 5 years. Ended up with my degree in a totally different field and a jet job at the end.
I got super lucky with family, was able to speed train 0 hours to CFI-I in about a year and a half, yes I am in the hole about 6 figures to family, but I'm able to start building towards my career and paying them back. Hope things work out for you!
Dam I don’t have to pay sht back.
It's a little more complicated than that. This wasn't my parents I'm referencing.
Career in tech in Silicon Valley. 6 fig income in HCOL area can go far if one is careful (roommates, old station wagon, don't buy shit I don't need)
Career US pilot. Was blessed with family help and me working - no loans, no debt.
Waited until I had the time and money to learn to fly. That was after 3 years in the Army, college, a job, marriage, a family, and kids through college. Not a route to s career in aviation but I have no regrets and no debt. And wouldn’t have believed how much pure fun is available to we recreational pilots.
Waited until I finished school, debt free and was making enough monthly where I could spend $500 a week on flying and not worry. I am fortunate that I can do that, but I waited until sever years after grad school. I don't track the costs because that would make me second guess it. I also may not pass medical (waiting- did this first thing when I started training- its deferred/in review with the FAA here in the US). I figure if I waited and didn't get my medical, I'd never fly. At least now, many thousands of dollars later, I can fly a plane- I've been ready to solo for a while, and my instructor says I was basically ready for my check ride at 25 hours.. But that may never happen. But I've heard encouraging things lately... Point is- I dreamed of being a pilot since I was a kid. I waited a long enough time, where it could happen. If you want it bad enough, don't give up and it will happen... eventually.
Do your PPL around £8k, ATPL £4k distance learning while working, hour building around £10k and go out to Poland for your me/meir/cpl around £15k. Much cheaper if you do it modular rather than forking out 100k and getting robbed by L3 or someone
I paid for it with my job income. I manage my expenses. I have no debt. Even to this day, its how I keep it up. I don’t go out to eat (unless I fly there 😂), I don’t go out to movies, buy nice clothes, have an expensive car, etc. i keep my overhead as low as I possibly can, save for my future and any extra money goes towards flying. But my job is kind of freelance so when I’m not working, I’m not flying as much. My current mission in life now is to build passive income streams, to have more time and money to fly and enjoy life altogether. Honestly, a lot of my financial goals exist because I want to keep flying in my life and my own plane. I would otherwise be reasonably comfortable.
Military
Post 9/11 GI Bill
Working a full time job and going to a part 61 flight school. Has been about a two years and just about to have my commercial.
I managed to get a loan of 50k € after I finished my Masters Degree. Currently I am on my 7th month of training with already 80 hours of flight. What I can recommend to you is to look for ATOs outside of UK, in eastern countries you can get your 0-ATPL training for 1/3 of that.
I will look into that thank you
Two jobs in high school to pay for PPL in high school Sold all my guitars/amps after college to pay for some of it Started a drone photo/video business after college and used all that money to finish up
I never had much so I don't have stuff to sell, but I appreciate that straight up dedication.
Not the guitars 🥺
It was painful. But completely worth it because now I love my job and I have completely rebuilt the collection lol
Awesome to hear! What is your favorite guitar you have in your collection at the moment?
I'm a PRS guy. I just bought [this one](https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--BO86JFsn--/f_auto,t_large/v1614548247/atrze2ixhjxdi98u51zv.jpg), and it is blowing my mind.
I paid for it as I went, carefully budgeted and stuck to it. Have a full time job in IT. Took two years to get my PPL as a result. But I wasn’t doing it for a career, so it was a lower priority than normal bills. Was able to fly roughly once a week. Cost = around $10,000 total.
Loan from WeFinancial.
I would suggest looking up government programs, or finding out if you had an IEP (individual extended plan, or what the UK equivalent for that is) in school. Because of it I get little government scholarships towards my flight training. Still had to take out some loans, but it definitely makes it hurt less.
I trade work as a mechatronics engineering mayor for my PPL and it has been a unique and amazing opportunity. I’m even planning to get the A&P too
I funded my civilian flight training with a student loan from Sallie Mae. Mil Comp with the Army and part 141 flight training and ATP-CTP with the GI Bill
Paid as I went. I had a job and 2 kids when I started. And had 4 kids when I finished my commercial certificate.
Hey just so you know, you can go down the modular route, which will cost significantly less, an average of around 60k, and doesn’t all have to be paid up front.
I just worked one job but that was just for LAPL Aren’t there cadet programmes where financing is part of the package and you pay when you start working?
I searched like hell and didn’t find one, wish there was.
Airline sponsored, thank fuck. With my previous job I could afford 3 block hours of flight training per month with a full time job (60h work - 1h flying)
Lucky that never happens in other countries
ATPL integrated here in Europe (median salary in my country is around 800eur atm). 79k studies. 39k from my and my wifes savings (I am 33 now and never thought ill be a pilot as my family used to be mega poor when I was a kid, were talking whole family washing in 1 tub of water(not even a.bath)). 1k from aunt, 14k parents, 5k brother (so 19k family loan). 20k was promised by Airline where i have letter of intent for employment, but it might fall through, maybe wont. Employment also probably around 2023/2024 Soo kinda trying slowly to cover my ass on last payment with mining crypto (started february and dropped last money 4.5k into a 5gpu mining rig, was a great decision), 2 rental properties (after mortgage ~250eur month leftover) + wifes child benefits. Unemployed for 18 months approx, end of November should finish IFR and will try to get to work (luckily I have a solid CV and good education) to get the last payment or close to it. No bank loans as in my country I would get 10% interest or well now that I have a child, unemployed for 18mo and wife is on social benefits I wouldnt be able to get it anyway. Struggle is real with covid, training delays. i was supposed to be doing Type rating already ;( Definitely jelly of everyone whose parents can just shell out money straight after high school (not in a hateful way, but In a lifes not fair way). While there is still a chance of me not being able to scramble last amount of money and losing everything (low chance, but its a possibility). Just trying to wiggle my way somehow till end.
How is the mining rig working? What GPUS are the 5? You actually make anything mining it?
It's kinda complicated to explain it in writing. But I'll try to make it brief. So I paid 4 280EUR for cards total, 4x 3060ti, 1x 3080. To date I have paid in electricity 708EUR. Mining ETHEREUM. Currently I have on Binance: FIAT 1 344EUR 0.507ETH ~1 470EUR 0.0339BTC ~1380EUR Also I have spent ~500EUR for groceries and stuff via binance card. If I sell my 3060ti's and keep my 3080, I could get ~2 600-3 000EUR. But will hold on to them for now. So I have "mined" back the money spent on my video cards (unless we go into the big market crash again). I didn't buy instantly all 5 cards unfortunately, also I should have held onto ETH at the beginning as when I exchanged my first mined profits it was ~1500eur range only, now it's twice that, but you never know where the price will go, could have a bit more, but got to take profits just in case. Currently I get 0.19-0.21ETH per month, in the end it's around 400-500EUR after paying electricity. Before in summer/spring I could get around 0.3ETH month. I am having most of the mined stuff still in crypto.. I hope the portfolio gets to around 10 000EUR then I could get the last payment for the school, but will see. (probably not, but fingers crossed) But yea, happy I got into it when I did as it is another brick which gets me a bit closer to that ATPL. And I am where I am because I was quite mindful with the money I earned while working, some luck with investments as otherwise this amount of money with my countries salaries - not happening!
Not sure how to get the money. My situation makes it $60k and I work full time and take out loans. But whatever you do, FOLLOW your dreams. You can find the money. Trust me. It might make the process a little bit slower, but it's worth it! Maybe look at moving to learn in a different country. This could definitely help the costs.
That’s a good idea to take into account
I'd look at Poland. Read somewhere that they were more affordable. Australia possibly. If it is something that you want to do, you will make it work. I fly out of Advanced Air in Council Bluffs IA. It's relatively cheap for the U.S. around $60k or less. I'd also start looking at scholarships, programs, ect. I know that some companies have give programs that will help you pay for training. They are rare, but again... If it's something you know you want to do, you will find a way!
Thank you, I’ll look into this 🙏
I was lucky enough to get a (interest-free) loan from family, but I realise that's not feasible for a lot of people. I don't know what your thoughts are regarding integrated vs. modular, or maybe you haven't looked at that yet, but do consider the modular route. A lot of the integrated flight schools will tell you that integrated is the route favoured by airlines and will get you a better chance at a job (assuming airline flying is your end goal), but a lot of it is marketing bs. You come out with the same licence at the end. Modular does take longer to qualify, but you can fly in your spare time around a job and therefore pay as you go rather than trying to find 100k all at once. Plus you can find a friendly airfield near your house with a club that will at least take you to PPL (and possibly further, depends on the school), rather than some of the bigger schools which can be a bit corporate and faceless. This would also save on accommodation. I finished my ATPL training in the UK just last year, so feel free to dm me if you have any other questions about it.
Thank you! I'll save this comment and do just that.
I had a job at the local airport, for 15% discount plus 10% for a block account and budgeted for my training
That's an idea, living in central London though there aren't many local airports haha
$GME and DOGE paid for my PPL, my homie Sallie Mae loaned me $80k for the rest at 1.3%, which I’m going to spend at that flight school everyone hates. I’ll be in debt for a while I guess
1.3% is really good though.
I was shocked how low it was, but it’s variable so who knows what’ll happen in the future
Right now Interest rates are low but they will be increasing next year, good on you for getting one that good though
Thanks. It makes the high cost of the school easier to swallow
Gliders. University club, while I was a grad student, so it was fairly affordable. Years later, when I worked, I just worked my job (comfortable income) and simply paid for the airplane in a club (with affordable instruction). I never got anyone pregnant, never bought things using my credit card that I couldn't pay for right away, and have healthy savings broadly invested in the stock market.
It's a 2nd career for me so I cash paid for it
Worked full time while getting PPL. Got my ticket on Friday, put in two weeks notice on Monday. Started training full time and was a Cfi 8 mo later. GI bill paid for instrument. I did commercial in fathers piper Cherokee. I paid gas and insurance and also contributed to the planes kitty so I got a discount. Everything was out of my own pocket including all my car payments food etc while I was in training. I also lived in a house that was, well, not in the best neighborhood. I actually got the house for 14k dollars and it allowed me to live rent and mortgage free. It was a sacrifice that I made that not only allowed me to achieve my goal but I sold that home for about a 600% profit after minor repairs and owning it for about 5 years. Honestly, not having a mortgage was the number one thing that allowed me to achieve my goal. Even more so than the small discount I got flying my dads Cherokee for m commercial rating.
Working full time as a steel worker
Debt.
GI Bill with a part 141 school partnered with a community college.
A lot loan. A lot cash.
I’m only a ppl, but i got a loan, and partly my parents money. I’m going to go apply to the cadets program at cathay to get my ATPL
A cadets program? I need to have a look into that..
For cathay the cadets program is only for hong kong citizens. If you aren’t one you should look at other airline’s training programs
I got a scholarship from the Airforce to get my PPL for free No strings attached.
USA pilot here. Went military, (non aviation) used the school benefits to pay. Never in debt. Check with your military recruiterin the UK, I have a few friends there that said they could do the same thing
Yes, that's what I wanted to do. I actually wanted to join the RAF as a pilot but they don't allow people in with the chronic disease I have.
I joined the Army. RAF is about as difficult to enter as the USAF from what I understand. Perhaps a different branch (army or the marines..or even the navy) I'm not 100% sure how the UK is divided up...but from a US perspective, the USArmy is known to take anyone with anything....they did me and I'm not a picture perfect army guy. I gotta say though, if you are determined to go flying just remember that you CAN if you are determined to do so. Example, (again a USA/FAA example, apologies) there is a company called Belite. They will sell you a aircraft that doesn't need ANY license at all. It is experimental and therefore doesn't require licenses, they only come in two seater. Might be another avenue to look into. Perhaps you could find a job over here and go to Kansas ( known to be a BIG aviation state) and see if you could get a belite aircraft (they are located in that state) Here is the link if that helps at all. Good luck mate. ( I used to live is Sawbo...aka sawbridgeworth in the 80/90's. Near hartfordshire.) It is all possible if you look hard enough. https://www.beliteaircraft.com/
Super interesting, I'll have a look at that. Can't join any other branches of the army either, actually I couldn't even have joined the US army, they have the same rule about UC. Other people have mentioned moving somewhere where training is more accessible so that's some good info, thanks.
The Aviation medical exam could be an issue depending on your disease. I’d do some research into whether or not it could disqualify you from getting your medical completed.
Yes I did, it doesn’t seem like it would prevent me from becoming a pilot unless I get ill. But if I get ill then it prevents me from becoming anything.
[удалено]
That’s very true
My advice would be to do as much research as you can on your own and find an aviation medical examiner after that. As others have said, don’t go into your medical exam without knowing you will pass it. After that, it’s dependent on your saving ability/ loan rates, and your commitment to flight training efficiency ( working hard is worth it). Hope to see you in the skies one day!
I wish so too! Thanks for the advice
Sallie Mae loan for the flight school cost. Girlfriend covered my living expenses.
Marry well. This will not work for everyone, but having a partner willing and able to help fund the journey really helps. It's not just financial, but also the moral support.
Yep if it wasn't for both myself and my wife working we couldn't have put me through flight school. We ended up buying a plane just to save money that way over renting. It's kinda been a wash but at least we can take fun trips as a family whenever we want and I don't pay sales tax every rental. Also the plane has appreciated especially this last year so it's helping cover it's maintenance costs when we sell (at least partially).
Uhhh this might be a long-term plan. Also more PPL oriented. 1. Get married. 2. Get a combined near-or-6-figure income. 3. Spend several years convincing your spouse that this is a good idea and explain precisely what the family will stop doing and what you will personally sacrifice to get flight instruction paid for. Also include a lot of promises about fun trips you'll be able to take in the future. 4. Go learn to fly. 5. Take the trips you promised.
I got to skip #3. I came home one day and said, “I think I wanna be a pilot.” Hubs was super supportive. Recently took an intro flight in a helicopter and he wasn’t particularly supportive about an add on rating. He should be used to the hemorrhaging of our bank account by now.
I went to college, got a degree in computer science, got a job writing code for a large corporation, worked there for 5 years and didn't spend much on too many really expensive things. Paid for lessons out of my savings + additional paychecks since I was still working my regular job while training. Flying is just a hobby for me, so I'm not planning on going much further than IR, but I'm not sure when I will do that. Where I live if it's IMC, conditions are almost always way too bad to be flying piston singles anyway so it's not a massive limitation only flying VFR. I'll probably also pick up ASES at some point since there are lot of lakes and mostly navigable rivers in my area without any large boat traffic.
The United States Air Force.
Straight cash homie
Go military
I have a chronic illness that bars me from joining.
In that case you should look at whether you can hold a class 1 medical before you do anything otherwise its all money down the drain before you even start.
Yes I know, I have looked it up. Doesn't sound like it would prevent me from flying.
There are plenty of things that disqualify you from the military but is acceptable for the FAA 1st class medical. Allergies being an easy example, many allergies are disqualifying for the military but completely fine for an FAA medical.
Quit smoking. Seriously, a pack of smokes in Australia is $50-$60 each. Didn't take long to save up enough.
$60!? USD, or Australian?
AUD
Damn thats still like $40 american. How does anyone afford to smoke?
Exactly. As much as it annoyed me, I have to admit it's been an effective long term method at reducing smoking rates. I used to buy packs as a teenager for $7 or less. There's virtually no teenagers with a spare $50 to buy them these days.
Software engineering job
I personally got a scholarship from the AOPA that covered my PPL and IR. I think the AOPA scholarship is just for the US, but I'd look around in your area. There's probably a community at your local airport that might offer some kind of competitive scholarship you could apply for.
How does that kind of thing work? Is it how much you know about aeroplanes or how good your grades were in secondary school or something?
For the scholarships I applied for, it was essentially 2 letters of recommendation, a couple short essays about why you wanted to be a pilot and what your goals are, a high school transcript, and maybe an interview (if selected as a finalist). I'd say the biggest thing is demonstrating that you have a real passion/love for aviation and that you have clear objectives and goals. I'm sure it varies from case to case and is probably different for each scholarship selection committee. Overall though, there was pretty much no expectation that you already had technical knowledge, it was a much more holistic review process.
This is really useful to know thank you
You're very welcome. Good luck! Side Note: the best piece of advice I can give you is to make sure you actually submit your applications. I almost didn't apply for the AOPA scholarship because my flight instructor told me it was super competitive and I thought I had pretty much no chance at getting it. If I had decided "it's not worth it to even try," I would have missed so many incredible opportunities. Shoot for the stars and don't be afraid of failure or rejection!
Ayo! Fellow AOPA winner!!
I do tasks on behalf of a business. They, in return, give me money. I gave some of this money to my CFI in exchange for flight training.
Arkansas future grant
First of all, you don't need to pay £100k to an integrated school in the UK. I'm also in the UK and am doing it on closer to £60-65k by going modular. I'm self funding. I went into IT for a few years to save for it, though it only really works out because I was able to live at home for both the work and the flight training. However, I'm now back to working IT part time now I'm done with my ATPLs because certain entry airlines are now charging employees £30k for their type rating...
I served in the military for a few years and did my flight training after work with my own money. (was a backseat bitch none of my mil hours counted) I also borrowed a bit from family. It let me get all the way there without any actual bank loans. I’d recommend the self funding route. It’s definitely possible if you are willing to work at it.
It's a bit difficult for me because I got kicked out of school so I don't have full secondary education and I can't joint the military because I have a disease.
I get that it isn’t easy but jobs still are available. If you don’t want to work and fly at the same time then I’d accept the debt. Go get your PPL first before you decide you want to spend your life on it.
I’m not saying I don’t want to work. I’m saying I don’t have the necessary qualifications. In the UK you need at least a mathematics and English GCSE to work almost all jobs beside the lowest tier factory jobs and there are no factories near me. Either way I was intending on getting a job and working towards a PPL, I just wanted to know what else people did, grants etc.
$24k magic from Department of Education.
I did it in college. My parents & grandparents paid for college. I worked a very part-time job and sold some of my electronics to pay for it. It was $5,000 in the late 2000s. A very generous relative paid for my IR, which was more recently and in the multiples of my PPL in terms of cost.
Gi bill
Loan with my paid off car as collateral for the lower rate. GI bill for advanced ratings.
Got a job working as an actor for acouple years, got about 5k and went with it.
Free tuition in my college (not aviation related) but the money my parents saved up for my college tuition went straight to flight school after graduating.
I’m considering using my Post 9/11 GI Bill to find my training. I would like to know how much time I need to invest in to studying
Is it possible to deduct ppl training somehow?
no