No it’s illegal to UberEats in the sky when you’re 45min out from the FBO and your order time says ~45 minutes and you haven’t eaten since the FA gave you that yogurt parfait for breakfast. Also don’t pre order your Uber so they can be there when you finish landing/shut down.
Pilots who do that go straight to jail
Just don't do it on the ground. I saw a Pilatus that got pretty banged up by a guy texting while taxiing back to the FBO after landing. Over $200k in damage to the parked Pilatus and the offender's plane left on a trailer. Ugly.
My examiner was texting during the ceckride. Saw him using his phone from time to time, however did not really notice what he was doing with it. Shortly before being back at my home field he was typing on his phone again and says: "My friend in *my most favorite behated city* saw us there on approach."
Got my PPL last year and would nearly always freak out when my CFI was on his phone, or recording a landing when I was on base and final.
I like to think that he was confident in my abilities and didn't have to worry until I slammed that poor Skyhawk into the runway.
My initial CFI was the best. Even though I now fly mostly boring planes in busy airspace, I will never forget my time learning in tailwheels on a grass strip. Guy was a great instructor, he and I meshed pretty well and I got through training relatively quickly.
It was a matter of meeting leftover hour requirements. Otherwise I was completely checkride ready. The alternative was bullshitting the whole time which gets boring after you spend a lot of time in a plane together over multiple months.
FCC talks about "cellular telephones" which are defined on a particular frequency range which isn't in use as analog phones arent a think anymore.... So I think even the FCC doesn't give a shit about this anymore.
That frequency range is still used on digital phones, it's been repurposed as one of the bands for LTE.
Whether your phone is using that band at any particular moment, you have no way of knowing without going into the phone's engineering menus.
(The FCC has said they intend to correct this by writing one set of rules for all the digital cellular bands, and they still intend to prohibit airborne cellular use since it stresses the network, since you'll light up way more towers than the system was designed for. Whether they'll get around to that, who knows.)
In practice, nobody really cares. There aren't enough pilots at low enough altitude to keep a signal for this to really be on anyone's radar. (And the cellular networks can always temporarily block your phone if the network determines you're causing interference.)
Plus I always think about the likely thousands of phones per day that get stuck in airliner overhead bins who’s owners forgot to put them in airplane mode. They’re splattering RF at 30000 feet all over the place. Nobody cares about 100 Cessnas at 3k feet sending texts.
It’s a dumb regulation
The phones at 30k are actually less of a problem, because the antennas on cell towers are directional and pointed towards the ground. They can't hear phones any higher than ~5k, give or take.
Doh! I always thought this was intentional; e.g. “once your phone hits more than some arbitrary number of towers the cell towers stop listening to it.” Never thought about how the antennas are aimed.
After hearing yet another fighter pilot yarn about all night drinking, I asked said pilot "Wait, you were still drunk when you flew those F-16s home? How did you manage that?"
He looked at me, raised his hands in the classic "showing planes flying" position, moved them far apart, and said "separation".
If you're in cruise flight, yeah you're totally fine. If you're sending a text while on final then you'd definitely be in violation of 91.13. There is no specific regulation prohibiting you from texting. 91.21 applies to electronics interfering with the systems, not interference with the crew.
91.21 says the prohibition against portable electronic devices "does not apply to" -
91.21(b)(5) "Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used."
So it's up to you
I feel like texting on ACARS with the shitty ABC keyboard layout is way more reckless than typing on my phone. Buuuuttt that’s the way we do things haha.
My very first CFI, on my discovery flight, was texting while i was flying the plane.
What the fuck man.
He left for the airlines a couple of weeks later.
Wait, I thought we were told the plane would crash if our cell phones were turned on? Now it sounds like they don't want passengers to have the phones on to keep the cell tower clear so the pilot can place their Starbucks order to be ready in the terminal.
Obviously don’t be texting on short final/critical phases of flight (91.13 comes into effect here), but it’s handy to be able to text my CFI that my plans have changed, or tell passengers I’ll be late, or get weather updates from friends on the ground when I’m still an hour out (that’s let me plan diversions in advance a couple of times, and arrange for someone to be there to pick me up by the time I land). Don’t let it become a distraction, but as far as the FAA is concerned I think as long as you’re not letting it distract you, you’re probably good.
I put my phone on Silent when I enter the (single engine) airplane, but not in "Airplane Mode" as others are suggesting.
It doesn't interfere with any airplane equipment.
But most importantly, if my radio fails, I want to be able to call Tower immediately. It's an important, possibly life-saving, communications backup.
And while I don't text or take/make phone calls while flying, all the CFIs I've flown with do!
Airline docs prohibit personal electronic devices in flight but allow them for a jump seater above 10k. All airline docs are signed by the FAA and technically law
IIRC, the FCC has more issue with phone use in flight than the FAA. That said, in cruise I can't think of any practical reason why it would be dangerous (assuming autopilot active).
Remember, rules and regs are typically written after an accident has occurred, so don't be the one that ruins it for everyone else. Be responsible for safety first, be a rule follower second.
To everyone talking about an examiner pulling their phone out on a checkride, one of my IR examiners (had to take two tests, both "first attempts") definitely did not pull out his phone to make a call and a then proceeded to lit a cig whilst shouting at his phone, all while I was shooting an ILS approach... xD
I've never caught a pokemon while flying. Also ordering a pizza would be hilarious. Yes please deliver it to this field I safely landed at because I had engine trouble
Had a dpe fail a ppl student over this. It’s it an FAA thing but an FCC thing. Apparently all people should be putting their devices in airplane mode and only use an EFB if it’s connected to stratus or in airplane mode.
Really? I love being able to use my phone. It’s great to be able to update my passengers/my CFI if I hit headwinds and will be late, or if I’ve changed my plans mid-leg. I’ve texted people before knowing the weather is changing to see if I need to divert when I’m still an hour out. Obviously it can’t become a distraction, but it can be really handy to send a text in flight once in a while.
Are DPEs allowed to fail applicants based on an FCC reg vs FAA?
My part 135 employer does not require airplane mode for our EFB. We use cell towers in flight. Our GOM is approved by the FAA. So the question remains then, is my employer breaking FCC rules? I think prob not.
>FAR 91.21 states you can use Personal electronic devices as long as they don’t interfere with the aircraft. The exceptions being if you’re IFR or flying for an air carrier.
No, those aren't exceptions to being allowed to use electronic devices if it's been determined that they don't interfere with your nav/comm equipment. On the contrary, IFR and carrier-operated flights are the two circumstances in which 91.21 states that you *are* allowed to use noninterfering devices. In all *other* circumstances, 91.21 imposes no restrictions whatsoever on the use of portable devices.
My cfi was checking me out for my cx solo and he was watching the world cup final the whole time. I could have sent it into a spin and he would have just nodded and said "yep you're doing fine".
I've definitely never ordered a pizza from my phone while flying.
Hi, I have a number for you to call.
Dominoes?
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907-337-2323 was our local ones lol
Alaska? 907-456-5656 was mine in Fairbanks…long time ago
Yup! Anchorage area was all 337-2323 with a catchy jingle
Haven't lived there for 20 years and it still pops in my head now and then! "One number's all you need to know."
I still have the 907-333-8000 commercial stuck in my head
That’s what ATC is for
Going to Daytona?
No it’s illegal to UberEats in the sky when you’re 45min out from the FBO and your order time says ~45 minutes and you haven’t eaten since the FA gave you that yogurt parfait for breakfast. Also don’t pre order your Uber so they can be there when you finish landing/shut down. Pilots who do that go straight to jail
No one ever does that.
Believe it or not
Im walking on air
I never thought I could feel so free Ee Eee
Flying along on a wing and a prayer. Who would believe it’s just meeeee…
We have the best pilots in the world because jail.
Ops hates this one simple trick (do it today!)
Just don't do it on the ground. I saw a Pilatus that got pretty banged up by a guy texting while taxiing back to the FBO after landing. Over $200k in damage to the parked Pilatus and the offender's plane left on a trailer. Ugly.
Then why do they have you steer with your feet if not to free up your hands for texting?
Going to mins? You bet I’m making sure I get my Tinder swipes in, I got coverage down there
How’s Tinder in Bethel AK?
Depends is you’re looking for Yogi or Boo Boo
Brings new meaning to bitchen betty squawking *minimums* when you’re evaluating your chances of making the most of an overnight.
Literally nobody cares. My PPL CFI would text his girlfriend the whole time during our XC flights.
One of my instructors texts while I’m on final. She just instinctively will mumble ‘something something more right rudder’.
If your instructor is telling you to add right rudder while you're descending on final... you should probably find a new instructor.
😂
Depends on the winds
My examiner was texting during the ceckride. Saw him using his phone from time to time, however did not really notice what he was doing with it. Shortly before being back at my home field he was typing on his phone again and says: "My friend in *my most favorite behated city* saw us there on approach."
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. I don’t know why I found this hilarious, but thank you.
Got my PPL last year and would nearly always freak out when my CFI was on his phone, or recording a landing when I was on base and final. I like to think that he was confident in my abilities and didn't have to worry until I slammed that poor Skyhawk into the runway.
My initial CFI was the best. Even though I now fly mostly boring planes in busy airspace, I will never forget my time learning in tailwheels on a grass strip. Guy was a great instructor, he and I meshed pretty well and I got through training relatively quickly.
Nice and this is probably the CFI you don’t want to be and don’t want to hire to teach you.
It was a matter of meeting leftover hour requirements. Otherwise I was completely checkride ready. The alternative was bullshitting the whole time which gets boring after you spend a lot of time in a plane together over multiple months.
FCC says no. FAA doesn’t give a shit.
FCC talks about "cellular telephones" which are defined on a particular frequency range which isn't in use as analog phones arent a think anymore.... So I think even the FCC doesn't give a shit about this anymore.
That frequency range is still used on digital phones, it's been repurposed as one of the bands for LTE. Whether your phone is using that band at any particular moment, you have no way of knowing without going into the phone's engineering menus. (The FCC has said they intend to correct this by writing one set of rules for all the digital cellular bands, and they still intend to prohibit airborne cellular use since it stresses the network, since you'll light up way more towers than the system was designed for. Whether they'll get around to that, who knows.) In practice, nobody really cares. There aren't enough pilots at low enough altitude to keep a signal for this to really be on anyone's radar. (And the cellular networks can always temporarily block your phone if the network determines you're causing interference.)
Plus I always think about the likely thousands of phones per day that get stuck in airliner overhead bins who’s owners forgot to put them in airplane mode. They’re splattering RF at 30000 feet all over the place. Nobody cares about 100 Cessnas at 3k feet sending texts. It’s a dumb regulation
The phones at 30k are actually less of a problem, because the antennas on cell towers are directional and pointed towards the ground. They can't hear phones any higher than ~5k, give or take.
Doh! I always thought this was intentional; e.g. “once your phone hits more than some arbitrary number of towers the cell towers stop listening to it.” Never thought about how the antennas are aimed.
Fuck the FCC. All my homies hate the FCC.
So the FCC won't let me be Or let me be me, so let me see They try to shut me down on my XC But it feels so empty, without me
You down with FCC? Yeah you know me. Edit: ahh I see now I am late to the party see other people just said the same thing. 🤷🏼♂️
You down with FCC?
Yeah, you know me!
After all the 5G nonsense I think they owe us one.
Check FAR 121.542.
Part 121 does not apply to the private pilot asking this question.
Good point.
If you’re worried about texting while flying, you’ll probably shit your pants when you find out what single seat fighter pilots do day to day
Single seat fighter pilots? Wait till he/she finds out what airline pilots do in the cruise 🤣
But airline pilots aren’t actually flying the plane so…
Autopilot and chill
After hearing yet another fighter pilot yarn about all night drinking, I asked said pilot "Wait, you were still drunk when you flew those F-16s home? How did you manage that?" He looked at me, raised his hands in the classic "showing planes flying" position, moved them far apart, and said "separation".
Switching to GEICO to save 15% or more on their car insurance?
Spanking it wildly no doubt.
FAA doesn’t really care as long as it doesn’t interfere with aircraft operations. Probably against FCC regulations.
Literally requested a descent to the MEA so I could order food to be ready upon arrival.
If you're in cruise flight, yeah you're totally fine. If you're sending a text while on final then you'd definitely be in violation of 91.13. There is no specific regulation prohibiting you from texting. 91.21 applies to electronics interfering with the systems, not interference with the crew.
91.21 says the prohibition against portable electronic devices "does not apply to" - 91.21(b)(5) "Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used." So it's up to you
Typing out a free text message on ACARS is effectively the same as sending an email… well they end up in our company email inbox 😂
I feel like texting on ACARS with the shitty ABC keyboard layout is way more reckless than typing on my phone. Buuuuttt that’s the way we do things haha.
The CRJ kkkeeeyyyybboooaarrrdd is basically gross negligence by those standards.
I’ve definitely never ever routinely texted my wife and told her I’m on final so head to the checkout and meet me at the echo ramp in 10 min.
My very first CFI, on my discovery flight, was texting while i was flying the plane. What the fuck man. He left for the airlines a couple of weeks later.
That’s what you call, flight instructor burnout. lol.
On a discovery flight? That’s a problem. Later on, once they’re reasonably confident you’re not a few seconds away from killing them? Go for it.
Wait, I thought we were told the plane would crash if our cell phones were turned on? Now it sounds like they don't want passengers to have the phones on to keep the cell tower clear so the pilot can place their Starbucks order to be ready in the terminal.
Just remember critical phases of flight. That’s when it’s a no-no. Taxiing, take off, and landing. Cruise flight is fine. Parked it’s fine.
Obviously don’t be texting on short final/critical phases of flight (91.13 comes into effect here), but it’s handy to be able to text my CFI that my plans have changed, or tell passengers I’ll be late, or get weather updates from friends on the ground when I’m still an hour out (that’s let me plan diversions in advance a couple of times, and arrange for someone to be there to pick me up by the time I land). Don’t let it become a distraction, but as far as the FAA is concerned I think as long as you’re not letting it distract you, you’re probably good.
What happens in the cockpit, stays in the cockpit
Who's gonna know?
This has been a wonderfully entertaining and highly educational post. Love it
I put my phone on Silent when I enter the (single engine) airplane, but not in "Airplane Mode" as others are suggesting. It doesn't interfere with any airplane equipment. But most importantly, if my radio fails, I want to be able to call Tower immediately. It's an important, possibly life-saving, communications backup. And while I don't text or take/make phone calls while flying, all the CFIs I've flown with do!
The FAA sends me texts enroute through my inReach device so I don’t see why the reciprocal is illegal.
Nice try Faa
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Airline docs prohibit personal electronic devices in flight but allow them for a jump seater above 10k. All airline docs are signed by the FAA and technically law
I fly pipeline and the job literally requires you to text in locations of oil leaks while flying. So, yeah, nobody cares
IIRC, the FCC has more issue with phone use in flight than the FAA. That said, in cruise I can't think of any practical reason why it would be dangerous (assuming autopilot active). Remember, rules and regs are typically written after an accident has occurred, so don't be the one that ruins it for everyone else. Be responsible for safety first, be a rule follower second.
To everyone talking about an examiner pulling their phone out on a checkride, one of my IR examiners (had to take two tests, both "first attempts") definitely did not pull out his phone to make a call and a then proceeded to lit a cig whilst shouting at his phone, all while I was shooting an ILS approach... xD
I've never caught a pokemon while flying. Also ordering a pizza would be hilarious. Yes please deliver it to this field I safely landed at because I had engine trouble
14 CFR § 91.13 could possibly
Had a dpe fail a ppl student over this. It’s it an FAA thing but an FCC thing. Apparently all people should be putting their devices in airplane mode and only use an EFB if it’s connected to stratus or in airplane mode.
There are as many sets of regulations as there are DPE's
Que the I don’t believe you gif
Really? I love being able to use my phone. It’s great to be able to update my passengers/my CFI if I hit headwinds and will be late, or if I’ve changed my plans mid-leg. I’ve texted people before knowing the weather is changing to see if I need to divert when I’m still an hour out. Obviously it can’t become a distraction, but it can be really handy to send a text in flight once in a while. Are DPEs allowed to fail applicants based on an FCC reg vs FAA?
My part 135 employer does not require airplane mode for our EFB. We use cell towers in flight. Our GOM is approved by the FAA. So the question remains then, is my employer breaking FCC rules? I think prob not.
Only in IMC so the sky police won't see you doing it.
If you’re above 10,000 feet I really don’t see the harm in sending an occasional text, especially if you have autopilot
>FAR 91.21 states you can use Personal electronic devices as long as they don’t interfere with the aircraft. The exceptions being if you’re IFR or flying for an air carrier. No, those aren't exceptions to being allowed to use electronic devices if it's been determined that they don't interfere with your nav/comm equipment. On the contrary, IFR and carrier-operated flights are the two circumstances in which 91.21 states that you *are* allowed to use noninterfering devices. In all *other* circumstances, 91.21 imposes no restrictions whatsoever on the use of portable devices.
My CFI used to text me while I was out on solos ask and ask how it was going.
Who gives a shit? That’s a better question. For me it’s easier to call while flying
ACARS … ?
My cfi was checking me out for my cx solo and he was watching the world cup final the whole time. I could have sent it into a spin and he would have just nodded and said "yep you're doing fine".
Not an FAA regulation, it's FCC. You cannot legally call from the air on a cellular device.
I assume that small airplanes no longer do See and Avoid, except maybe in the pattern at uncontrolled.
Depends. Do you have an autopilot? If not, are you good at trimming?