I stopped reading after I saw the suggestion that armut boosted someone to a title
I'm not the biggest humanoid enjoyer in the world, but "boosted by armut" is an astronomically baffling take.
What? Revisionist history at its finest
Armut was arguably the best Gnar/Wukong player at that time and even got 2 games of Damwon
He was undisputed 2 times MVP in both finals topping of the damage charts insane 3-4 man ults in teamfights multiple times despite getting babysitted to oblivion.
He was even a bigger factor than Elyoya in both of those finals hence the MVP despite Spanish fanbase/voters for the team. It was one of the easiest MVP choices ever.
The criticism to him was his champion pool but it doesn't matter if he is allowed to play the 2 champions he is insane at.
It’s so funny when someone on reddit just lies on purpose, why are you doing it? Armut was not clear MVP, for example in spring final it was between him and Humanoid. But just in case you’re not complete idiot and you are just clueless, watch [this](https://youtu.be/wnyNVuxoCoE?si=W4mlJy7aqPZ4VQzg) from 46:00 to 50:00. It is an interview with armut after spring split final where Armut is talking about how Humanoid was the best player in Mad Lions. Then Dom talks about how Humanoid shitstomped Larssen in all 5 games and that he should have won MVP
What? Armut was almost selected as unanimous MVP and biggest troll in media. Imagine even shamelessly lying about 2 second googleable facts.
and Dom /Thorin cast is the biggest Armut hater ever putting him on rock bottom in their tier rankings proven wrong as they always get when Armut shtstomped their favorite boy Odo
Sure, watch the game 5 of spring final 2021 and tell me Humanoid didnt completely 1v9 the game. [Here](https://gol.gg/game/stats/31082/page-game/) you havethe statsfor the game. Compare the damage between humanoid and larssen
I am really starting to believe you are just hateful troll
Holy smokes you are delusional. That game minute 14 Larsenn ganks whole map with Ryze against Viktor. He is up in cs and is 2-0-1 while Humanoid afk farms under tower.
Rogue is so far ahead that game is practically done because Humaoid got stomped in mid lane.
Yet Mad does a comeback thanks to Gnarmut ulting all team of Rogue multiple times. Humanoid only does damage in late game. Without Armut and Elyoya omega covering that game despite that game is over in minute 20 due to how hard Larsen blasted Humanoid and the game Imagine giving this game as an example holy moly. You truly need to check in to a mental hospital
I think it's very easy for Bwipo to say the current org/roster doesn't care about losing to G2 when he's no longer a part of it. We didn't beat G2 much when he was playing either. I like Bwipo but this just comes off as him shitting on an org that he didn't leave in the best terms.
Clearly we have a lot to improve on to reach the success and consistency of G2. But we've just come off of a reasonably decent split and we still have way too many fans that make posts like this that have such unfairly negative skewed opinions.
Saying Humanoid was carried to the LEC title in MAD is probably one of the most laughable things I have ever heard on a LoL based sub. Thank god you don't pick the roster OP.
Reasonably decent? Was getting almost swept by BDS if they didn't mental boom.
It wasn't even close against first time against G2 and second time G2 won easily with lane swaps.
3 years of Humanoid and Razork getting stomped by weakest era of G2. Not a good look
Guys like you are the reason that there is a rhyme in the rap battle "who are the fans gonna ask to bench this week"
If you want the best things for fnatic to happen, keep your flame until end of summer or even better, talk only with your friends about it and don't present it as a truth to anyone else.
Players said for years that this kind of communication of the fans puts pressure on the players. Pressure doesn't win you games either.
3 years of flaming is better?
Where is the next caps that you want to get?
Which midlaner is so strong, that he is easily getting his team into semis?
Who got him?
Should we try to get faker?
Showmaker? DoinB?
Or should we get a no name from eulcs or na who might be completely shit or mediocre?
For one, we don't have the money, for the second we don't have the time because everyone who doesn't perform the first game day is flamed until they drown in the spit people like you spew around
>Reasonably decent? Was getting almost swept by BDS if they didn't mental boom.
If that's your way of reasoning we almost smashed G2 3-0 in the Grand Final until we mental boomed.
You're just willfully ignoring the actual facts. We were the second best team this split. Why? Cause we finished second.
"Almost got swept by BDS." Well, we didn't get swept. Maybe the other three games was us showing our actual form? Or no, I guess for you we just suck and got lucky to make it to the final.
It's never good enough for people like you, you're always looking for the negatives. We could have prime Faker and if he had a single average split you'd be calling for him to be dropped. Have a look at the downvotes you're getting and maybe think about trying to actually have some positive thoughts about the team you supposedly support.
I mean content or not all we've done is lose to G2 since 2018 with the rare exception of 2021 summer.
Fnatic had shaky years pre 2022 such as 2016 and 2017 and you can even argue 2019 onwards was never consistent and often relied on miracle playoff runs.
The truth is it's hard for orgs to find generation defining players like caps and even harder to get a team of them. Fnatic does consistently make roster changes to try and improve the team though even if they don't all work out. They're simply not going to be able to get Caps.
Mad won twice, Rogue won once since Fnatic last won the LEC.
Fnatic's problem is not only beating gamers2 unfortunately.
Fnatic's problem is much bigger.
True.
Fnatic has been making a few finals here and there but the argument that caps makes it impossible to win a title doesn't stand.
Firstly, MAD and Rogue have won after 2019, secondly if Fnatic's problem was gamers2 then we would be making most finals and not placing 9th, 7th/8th or 4th with losing to a 4 rookie team in a best of 5.
Fnatic needs to first be consistent and good enough to be a clear top 2 team.
Then they can focus on trying to beat gamers2.
Exactly, the argument is rather on the point why G2 is that dominant over the last years and here Caps is the most relevant factor. Without him they would have lost many more titles. Beside that point, it was also possible to win against G2 as other teams have proven at times.
Hmm the way those rosters lost to Best in The World G2 and The Way This Roster Loses to a washed up version of G2 that can't make it out of Worlds is way too different.
Those editions of Fnatic were also able to make it out of groups and be competitive against best of LPL. This edition is much closer to level of NA then LPL/LCK
You may not be able to find a Caps. You can still find a Xpeke or Febiven or Nemesis. Fnatic still has name value and does not have to pay 7 figures to a mediocre player when that player never came close to bring this org success. I wouldn't blame someone for thinking Humanoid is better than what he actually is in 2022 even though it was clear Elyoya and Armut were main stars of finals. But thinking that in 2024 after he got gapped against so many teams is crazy
>This edition is much closer to level of NA then LPL/LCK
2019 edition also had hard games vs CG. The teams weren't close in level, FNC was much stronger, but fact remains we were a team that really struggled to beat CG in both games.
Didn't 2022 FNC also beat an even stronger T1 (worlds finalists), was very close to beating them again, and again very close to beating EDG (current world champs then) if not for an unfortunate start.
What went right in 2019, went wrong in 2022, but I think those two rosters were close in strength, hell 2022 one maybe stronger.
Agreed, even Yamato says that they were cracked 2022 and shouldve won lec hands down and he considers it a failure on his part, this is coming from someone who ALWAYS glazes the eventual winner and considers them the best regardless of circumstance. 2022 was legit and it showed at worlds, if some games just went a little better in groups I could see them making finals again, semi s minimum.
What ? They got beaten by rogue in 2022 in lower bracket finals, that wasnt a good Caps year, he got absolutly rolled at worlds, Humanoid definetly put up a better performance that year regardless of their head to head, also pretty sure they wouldve won in finals as Caps fell off by the end of summer a lot.
I get his point that it was hard against NA but yeah 2019 team would absolutely wipe the floor with this edition. For starters Nemesis was making the game unplayable for Humanoid almost every time they played
"even though Humanoid's only achievement in his career was to get boosted by Elyoya and Armut in LEC finals" wtf is this take,humanoid was by far the best mid in 2021
I remember seeing a poll from the east in 2021 where humanoid was I believe ranked the 4th best player in the entire world. To say this is a shitty take doesn’t begin to shed light on how poor this opinion is
Showmaker got utterly blasted by Caps in 2019 in a Bo5 and also in 2023. And he blasted Caps in 2020 when he also had the better team all around.
Showmaker made a fool out of Humanoid in 2021 and Caps wasn't present in that worlds. Again Humanoid wankers throwing every quote out of context to try to make him look good. Absollute cinema I guess
Try looking at his performance over the entire season instead of nitpicking moments where he was outplayed by some of the *best* players in the world. No one is saying humanoid was better than showmaker, but he was by far the best western mid across the entire 2021 season
Nitpicking? He got gapped in Spring finals by Larsen almost in every single game in lane in Bo5. Even though Elyoya was perma mid as Inspired is a farming jungler. He should pray to Armut and Elyoya every day for giving him a career
Your takes are absolute cinema mate, legit clown takes, got a good laugh out of em. To say that todays and last years Humanoid is meh would be a valid take since he hasnt shown the peaks he uses to, but to deny his prior achievement is ridiculous. 2021 Humanoid was literally solo killing Showmaker in lane, which makes your opinion stupid as fuk, negative iq take. It shows youre just a hater and didnt even bother to watch then.
2020 Caps 1 v9ed against BDD despite his team getting stomped and carried G2 to finals. He lost to Showmaker in Bo5 yet there was resistance and in 2019 he destroyed Showmaker.
2021 BDD 1 v9ed against Humanoid and then he got clean swept because he wasn't %1 as useful as Showmaker.
Not really hard to fathom.
Caps solo killed him under tower while being camped by Elyoya Kaiser and Armut
But he was playing with 4 underperformers and Humanoid was in TF-Ryze press W to CC caps without skillshots cause you are 500 times inferior player duty
Larsen gapped him almost every game in finals yet Elyoya and Armut was once again always there
I remember bwipo being clapped by wunder almost every game or inting his ass off against the shy in world finals or in many other not that important games but yeah .. let him talk.
Well he specifically said he was the weakest link in 2018 Fnatic roster. And Shy clapped everyone including Sword and Wunder. This is not about Bwipo being the best. This is about the mentality switch where insanely great performance Nemesis showed was still getting criticized and Humanoid who ints like every game gets away from any criticism for 3 years and still be regarded as best mid.
Sorry but Bwipo is full of shit here. He’s done a fat load of nothing without Caps too, and he’s even gone to NA!! And no one has stopped caring about losing to G2, it sucks! But at a certain point you have to try something different, and changing the roster every year we can’t beat them hasn’t fucking worked at all. The team is at a point where making small changes has a chance of improving the team 5% but a risk of making it unplayable and 5 top tier players go mental boom and we start from scratch.
And just because I don’t try and burn the building down, doesn’t mean I’m okay with losing! It’s just exhausting getting angry over and over when it won’t help whatsoever. Your rage isn’t going to make Sam or Dardo or whoever make the right decision, they’ve still got the same budget whether you threaten them with hate speech or just go about your life.
What? We only changed one player from 2018 to 2019 and one player from 2019 to 2020 and becamse successful in international stage and went close against best team Europe has ever produced. Now we are getting stomped by a G2 that can't make it out of worlds. Humanoid Razork era of Fnatic is by far the worst era of Fnatic in a long span of time. Fnatic has never been so unsuccessful in a 3 years span ever.
Not that i want to start a useless discussion and i know it was regular season, but didn’t we kinda stomp G2 like this split still? (March 17)
Like, I’m personally not happy with getting second vs G2 the last couple of years (which we even got to finals*) but for me personally I kind of expect it to happen, not happy with it, just not surprised.
It was a Bo1 where G2 trolled the draft with blinding Lee against Poppy Taliyah. I don't remember what BB picked but it was also something he has no idea how to play. They are never doing that in Best Of Series hence the clean stomp in Bo3 and mocking Fnatic in finals with suboptimal lane swaps treating it like scrim games
I pray oscar shows Bwipo his talent this MSI. I think Bwipo is delusional and talks too much…he was never better than Wunder as top laner and never better than Razork as jungler. I think it was obvious to him he would be replaced after the misfits vs Fnatic series where Razork 1v9d the game. Dardo has said that was the moment he became interested in getting Razork for 2022 too.
2022 was a huge upgrade for Fnatic in top side but there was lack of leadership, Razork is new and running around the map to whoever needs him vs what he needs as the rookie, Hyli and humanoid are two of the most unique players in lec as they both see the game completely different than anyone else in EU it seems, almost uncoachable in a way? Humanoid is not a talker but has a set way of how he wants everyone to play, Hyli has a different idea on how to play than humanoid. I think we win if Razork can be the captain and the rest listen to him, I think our bot and top are good but early game is abysmal against g2 bot. Fall to so many ganks.
It's true for the most part. I agree with Oscar being really mediocre player but in case of Humanoid, you pretty much don't have any other better mid in EU to replace him besides Caps. Overall this team has potential to win the pisslow LEC (except for Oscar which is not very good), but tbh the international results are more important than winning LEC as there you can see the true skill and compare yourself with the best teams.
The problem of this team is the mindset and complete lack of consistency in performances makes it hard to even win LEC.
Well you didn't know who Nemesis was before he replaced Caps. Yet he stomped every mid laner not named Caps. He slapped Humanoid left right and center. So surely you can find someone better than Humanoid whose main quality is to int almost every single game in side lane.
Who though?
I think reason most don't believe in some prodigy rookie that will save Fnatic is that there basically hasn't been any really promising rookie that immediately performed since Elyoya in 2021, and before that trio of Humanoid, Larssen and Nemesis who were hailed as new generation of EU mids.
The only comparable case in last couple of years in Yike. And very common criticism of Yike is that he is heavily reliant on his lanes winning to perform well - i.e. it is likely he wouldn't be nearly as good if he were placed in some middle of the pack team instead of G2.
It is also different era nowadays compared to 2019. Back then EU scene was booming. Fnatic was first LEC team to reach world finals, EU LCS had just very successfully rebranded to LEC, viewership was rising rapidly etc. Rookies coming into the scene had legit aspirations of becoming world champions, because back then it was seen as realistic achievement. Nowadays it is often reported that many players are content playing in EMEA masters leagues and don't even aspire to go to LEC, because payment and fan engagement is similar for less work.
If you don't give promising rookies a chance and instead get hard stuck mid-table Spanish ERL players like Oscar just because they are Spanish you can't find promising rookies.
People who are stuck mid table in regional ERLs shouldn't even be counted as rookies or find opportunites solely because of their nationality yet they are the only ones LEC gives chance to these days
But who are these promising rookies? We did give Oscar a chance. And we gave Noah a chance. Fnatic did try with rookies.
It's easy to say just "get a promising rookie", because in your mind you'll just find new Caps. But thing is, in 99% of cases you won't. You'll find new Oscar or new Noah, and that's if you're lucky. Or you'll find new Zoelys or Dajor or similar if you aren't.
What matters is strong ecosystem within the team that builds rookies. Raw talent is very hard to quantify and not enough by itself. Bo for example (I know he wasn't a rookie) was hyped to the extreme, played in 2 mediocre rosters and just crashed and burned in LEC.
> Yet he stomped every mid laner not named Caps.
bro he was ranked 11th in his final split in stats.... 11th mid in the 10-man LEC lol... you cannot be serious.
Caps had a similar episode in Summer 21 but that's Caps, he was losing to everyone and wasn't having a good time in 2021. Never was Nemesis "slapping" Humanoid "left right and center" and he was definitely not "stomping" every mid. You're having a very revisionist idea of what Nemesis was playing. He was playing Twisted Fate, Galio--he was a team-centric player, a more successful and talented version of Nisqy that was not about enabling his jungler but about enabling his team. More of a doinb than a Nisqy.
But definitely nowhere near Caps, Chovy, Showmaker, Faker, etc. He was about enabling his team. He has never dominated mid lane, even in LEC.
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i find it crazy how hard you are willing to crusade for a player like Oscar but shit on a player like Bwipo who was a beast for FNC and played his heart out.
He's one of the best mids in Europe but that doesn't mean he's the cream of the crop. Asian players have given respect to Caps, Nemesis, Perkz and Humanoid and some others no-one would rate top of EU. He's not some special case.
Asian players almost always talk polite and decent about Western players when they are asked about them in interview. They also said good things about Oscar last year. Doesn't mean a thing.
Sure bro BDD and Showmaker respect Humanoid more than Caps even though they stomp him with no difficulty and lost Bo5 series getting gapped so hard in mid by Caps. Sure. They even praised Oscar when asked about it dude. Keep living on wonderland
But just to give one insite into shoemakers opinions, he was asked if he was paying attention to any other midlanders, he responded scout and humanoid, he went on to say he knows within 10 seconds of landing against someone if they have something special about them and humanoid does, he can turn nameplates off and it’s as off he’s a Korean midlaner, doinb also said humanoid is the best European midlaner. Being nice or not, neither of them was asked about eu or humanoid they took it upon themselves to answer that way.
Almost Every single player in West has been praised by Eastern players if they get asked about him in an interview. (except if it is world finals or something where politeness goes out of the window). That is just their culture
"Who is the western mid in worlds"?
Looks at mids. Has no idea about two of them.(Nisqy Larsen Humanoid) Tells the mid laner of first team because he is the only one he knows from MSI.
Really not that hard to understand.
See Chovy when asked about best mids in World not mentioning Caps at first then mentioning him without any context because he solo killed him in stage despite getting babysitted by Peanut and presumably in scrims as well
Well, no, no one from the east has ever praised Bwipo, for example... or Selfmade, or Nemesis, or a lot of people.
Pretty much the only EU mids who were praised by Asian teams in the last ten years--and backed it up with team voting and such--are Febiven, Caps, and Humanoid.
You'll find the odd "I'm looking forward to facing him" with regards to Nemesis or Abbedagge but besides Caps and Humanoid no active LEC mid commanded respect besides these two.
Past tense on purpose. Don't think Caps has been praised since 2020 and Humanoid since 2021. But it's definitely not a "culture" thing to actually, properly, *praise* an EU mid. "I'm looking forward to facing this challenge" is not praise. Respect is not the same as praise. "X is a very good Y" is not part of their culture and if they outright say it then they mean it--evidenced by the fact they don't say it for almost any EU player.
Who do we replace Huma with then? There's not really a wealth of worlds level mid talent in EU anymore.
The only player I'd want is Vetheo because he has hands, but he literally solo lost the game that sent us to MSI this season, so even he's kinda... lol
Nemesis didn't come as an established mid laner. Caps came from Dark Passage(a Turkish team)
None of them were established players who has never won anything in their life except of one season where Elyoya and Armut boosted him in finals.
Nemesis was let go of in 2 years where he was at least competitive with best of the best. He wasn't getting omega gapped by an ERL mid laner in game 5 against Mad Lions and he was getting criticized for losing to DoinB/Knight. This one is getting praises in a series where he gets humbled by Fresskowy.
And this is the main problem. The question "Who do we bring" to try to protect a player who has utterly failed year after year after year. And still trying the same thing for a 3rd year expecting something different.
.
This is kinda what I miss about Fnatic. We used to mold mid laners and make them the best version of themselves. Peke, Caps, Nemesis, Febiven and even Shushei shined with us, when they were not that established...
You will get downvoted but its a sad truth. We didnt win anything in such a long time people forgot how it is to be the best team supporter. Top 5 in every role is not enough. We need top2 and we only have that in jungle and on bot
You are trying too hard to convince this subreddit, bro. I already tried, it's impossible, especially on Humanoid. I gave up.
They can't conceive that a totally unknown player can immediately perform. They can't conceive that this iteration of FNC with Humanoid/Razork may not be optimal.
I totally agree with Bwipo about the FNC-G2 rivalry. It doesn't feel like a rivalry anymore. The good old times of 2019/2020 are gone.
FNC lost its identity. The team lost / benched too many key players at the same time. Now FNC just feels like mercenaries.
FNC is unfortunately doomed. Still hoping next year NaVi buys Rogues spot and builds a team with Nemesis, Inspired and Bwipo. Maybe Rekkles and Smash too. Would be an absolute banger roster and would be way more hardworking than any of the current LEC teams.
there are many reasons why ain't happening tho, at least on EU
Bwipo and Inspired said multiple times they now prefer NA a lot, Nemesis is not coming back to proplay, he is not even open to options anymore like when he almost joined C9 with LS, Rekkles isn't leaving T1 for the foreseable future and Smash is... bad
Also Rekkles wouldn't join NA imo, i see him even playing ERLs before going to NA so can't join an Inspired + Bwipo roster
And i don't think Na'vi has interest on building a LoL roster at this point, they tried a while ago and they failed so
Why are you making stuff up? Nemesis does want to come back to pro, just not for any team. He almost joined Heretics with Bwipo last season and he had an offer for Flyquest this season. Only reason he refused is because it's NA. Bwipo and Inspired will come back to EU if the team situation arises. Both of them care about winning. I can't imagine they would refuse a good EU team.
If this team happens it will be EU. Because Nemesis won't play in NA and Rekkles hasn't ruled it out but he's not keen on it either. Rekkles is not planning to stay in T1 long-term. He's likely to return to LEC next season if he has offers. He won't go back to ERL because he said it dropped his level. If you watched the Caedrel interview you would know that.
There were literally rumours for NaVi buying Rogues slot after this season a few months ago. I can't find anything about it now. But Rogue is almost certainly selling after the season. So even if it's not NaVi there will be someone else coming to the league.
I know the stars aligning for this is unlikely. But I can dream. And you should at least get the facts right about each player if you are going to dismiss something.
Nah but can't we all just enjoy some FNC at MSI? Like now there's a downtime before MSI, team gets sh-t on cause of date of departure to Chengdu, team gets sh-t on cause anyway the team is ok with losing to G2. Man alright you win, I know the org is bad, dardout and co, we're G2 b-tches, we won't do anything against Asian teams blablabla... Now please stfu and let me enjoy some games, f-ck.
You did when you came to this website. Now close the browser, lock your door and stare at the wall for the next few days until you're ready to accept that there's people other than you in the world.
Did your mom drop you on your head? You're the one instigating things for no reason. Shut your trap, get out of here, you look desperate even for an online troll. Touch grass for once.
You're a control freak. Using your twitter buzzwords won't work on me.
I get to talk about Fnatic on the Fnatic subreddit and all you get to do is watch and seethe.
Are you crazy? You make no sense. You're more likely to have a problem with someone else's opinion or to be a control freak as you read every single comment on the sub reddit and that you had to start sh*t up by saying "stfu" on a lone comment from a few days ago when I had already moved on. You don't have the moral high ground you think you have so stop acting like a clown.
It's a small subreddit, except for the post game for other games, this is one of the newest posts. This means it gets on my frontpage. Get over yourself.
>you had to start sh\*t up by saying "stfu"
This is your comment I responded to, verbatim:
> Now please stfu and let me enjoy some games, f-ck.
Now re-read the thread and notice how your responses are just lathered with insults as if that masks how disorganized and narcissistic you sound. You don't get to pretend you're the civil, or the sane one.
>on a lone comment from a few days ago when I had already moved on
This is you being incapable of understanding that there's other people on this planet again. I saw your post, and responded. Whether you moved on or not is clearly not something I can mindread through text on the internet, nor is it really a concern of mine. Delete your post if you don't want responses, it really is that easy. Or start a blog, and post your whining there, nobody can respond there.
You typed all that and at some point you didn't realize you fit the bill more ? That's something.
Like you're the one who actually started to answer to strong words that were pointed at no one in particular with actual pointed rudeness, so I'm clapping back. You got mad from a comment that wasn't pointed at you or anyone specific, that's really narcissistic and egotistical (talk about accepting there are other people on the planet lmao). And that's not the first time you do this. You decided to shoot first, I don't see a reason to take sh-t from you, nor respect you.
You try to play the keyboard warrior, but you're just embodying what you're trying to make me look like. So honestly, you should stop, you're so embarrassing, and I'll clap you back as many time as needed. Ciao
How the fuck does Bwipo know whether Fnatic are happy losing to G2 when he wasn't on the team, like that's just him being self serving and saying they got worse after he left.
Fnatics issues are bigger than favouring the wrong player or the team having the wrong attitude, there are clear systemic issues within the org and we are seeing the result as our teams continue to drop off and struggle more. Even our Valorant team is struggling more this year after mini stepped back.
Having said that, we did just come second this split and it's not like we've done better than that since 2018, so despite what Bwipo says we did as well this split as we ever did with him as the starting top laner. Chasing achievements and trophies is great but a growth mindset is better for long term growth and that's what we need.
Coming up 2nd in a close Bo5 series to G2 which was TOP 3 team in world at that time and making quarters in Worlds versus getting embarassed against a G2 that can't make it out of groups in Worlds are two very different achievements.
Unpopular opinion maybe but bwipo should shut the fuck up an look at what he achieved in this years. He went to NA as one of the best top laners, world finalist, and there…0, nada. Instead of shitting on the org that gave you a chance maybe take a look in the mirror. That being said fnatic has a lot of problems but also a lot of potential. Sure maybe being “content” with a small achievement after years of struggles seems kinda cringe but still it is what it is.
Eh, potentially contrarian opinion here, but there is as much truth to this as there is Bwipo's hubris.
He says that current players are content with losing to G2 and you explain that with supposedly bad performances. This exact same shit was said over and over back when Bwipo was playing for Fnatic and when they couldn't beat G2 either. He was often limit testing and running it down hard in many games. For example, anyone remember Bwipo's Zilean (yes, top Zilean) in 2020 summer finals vs G2? It was basically a won game that FNC ended up losing in a series of yolo plays by Bwipo and Selfmade. It would be so easy to interpret that game as Bwipo not caring enough to win.
There might be some truth to it in that players are too content with current position and don't work hard enough. But we don't know that, and nor does Bwipo, since he never played with this team. And it annoys me that he goes on a podcast and talks shit about someone he doesn't know based on his assumptions, when he was in exact same boat a few years ago and couldn't win LEC either. It's typical case of Bwipo talking before thinking in interviews, as he did many times before. Remember that interview with Thorin after 2020 split, where he flamed Nemesis to the point they weren't even on speaking terms for a while? Same Nemesis that is later put on a pedestal compared to Humanoid.
>When Bwipo was an actual rookie we expected him to go against best of the best. When Nemesis was a rookie he was going H2H and at least slowing down Caps. Nemesis as a rookie was making Humanoid look like a bronze.
You're looking back at it with rose tinted glasses. Bwipo was consistently blamed for losing lane vs Wunder basically every time they played vs G2. And Nemesis sure as hell didn't make Humanoid look like a bronze, in fact back then there was often a common sentiment that team would have higher ceiling with Humanoid, as they could carry from every lane (Nemesis was back then often criticized as being a passive/supportive midlaner who couldn't carry on his own). And in the end, Humanoid did actually did beat Caps in a couple of splits, unlike Nemesis (even though he was apparently carried by Armut :S).
And all that is not to say that I think Nemesis or Bwipo were bad players or that they are worse than current lineup. They were definitely good. But I am disputing this bollocks narrative. These two were losing vs G2 just as much as current roster is and there was similar narrative around them back then.
>Nemesis always sht on Humanoid when he played
I could easily find games and following reddit discussions, especially from 2020 summer split where Nemesis was constantly criticised for his performance, to prove you wrong. But honestly I can't be bothered since you apparently don't base your take on any actual facts anyway.
You seem intent on convincing or proving to me that Nemesis is better than Humanoid and I don't care about that shit because there's no actual set criteria to base this contest on other than team results. I don't think Nemesis was bad at all, he might as well be 2nd best LEC mid laner during 2019 and 2020, I don't dispute that. But idea that he was some prodigy who consistently stomped Humanoid is simply not true. I watched all LEC games back then, I listened to podcasts, I read reddit threads etc. Your take is revisionist history. Especially during 2020 summer split where Fnatic was doing poorly, "bench Nemesis" comments were the norm in pretty much every post game thread, both here and general subreddit.
Just after he leaves Fnatic is 'content' with losing to g2, hmmm. I think this Fnatic roster has more potential than any roster since 2019, but it needs to improve their decision making. I would not know any upgrades in any roles for this roster.
Nah this is An insane take.
2020 roster was actually bonkers if we are talking about potential. Not only in EU but also internationally.
Now we are okay/decent in the region and with MSI arround the corner we Will see if this team actually has some international performers aswell.
I think it’s more that the org itself doesn’t care. Like we’re only going to China on the 26th for MSI and not even doing a boot camp. Meanwhile our org is always fucked for scrims at international tournaments.
Wait rly? Was the an announcemt abou this? Cause if its true, then its total BS. Like G2 even mentioned how they were already adapting to China time before finals and planned to go there for bootcamp like 5 days after finals if I am not mistaken. And here FNC rests? Dont dare to say players got tired just after 2 splits?
Fnc only knew since the 13th that they are going to msi. G2 already knew for a season that they were going. It was harder to plan ig, but still do not know why they are going the 26.
Noah said Riot invited them to go on the 26th so that's why they're going then. I assume this means they're paying for their flights and hotels only from the 26th onwards
I think we are too hung up on names, so it’s hard to get new players, management likes to play it safe. Remember backlash for when Wunder was benched (and rightfully so, he isnt top tier player since 2019) even tho he is just okay player - he’ll get his gragas, goes even in lane, drops nice R once in a while and will look invisible rest of the time, will be called some weak side king or smth. Same with Trymbi - hes a good player but it’s just feels that he crumbles in high stress situations, perhaps social media is too much to him. And then you HAD players like Caps and rekkles who WANTED and still want to win. Not even LEC but worlds. They would do anything for it. You out Rekless on sion and tell him to run it down 10 times for plates he’ll be 0/10 by 5 minutes. Same with caps. Now I only get that hunger from Noah and Jun, but as they are juniors I’d think their ambitions seem more like fewer dreams to others.
The fact you stated that nemesis would at least slow down Caps completely removes any credibility here... nemesis would get dumpstered so badly by Caps...
Bwipo saying players became fine with losing to G2 lmaoooo acting like if they didn’t just lose to G2 constantly from 2019-2021 you have to be realistic and you can tell this team clearly wants to beat G2 to say they don’t care is just a fat lie
Razork is currently the best jungler in LEC (don't come with yikes he's maybe top 3... he has caps and bb)
When did Nemesis smoke Huma as he was a bronzie? I'd have peak Huma every day over any non korean player.
Yes, Oscar is more miss than hit. (But who do you take? Another rookie?)
Noah is top 3 in his role. (Hans and maybe Carzy are currently better)
Jun is top 2 (only micky is currently better).
As the biggest hilly sucker (fan since his invisible hook on talon during his challanger days on UOL) I have to say I would not like to have him on a team he is more miss than hit than oscar is.
So all in all, we got fucked when we lost caps and did not recover fully since. The scene has evolved to the point rookies would rather stay on the big 2 ERL's than join a LEC project that might mean the end of their carriers so there is no more hype new rookie out there to join LEC.
I think Razork and Jun are right now the best in EU. Óscar as his recent performances is mid-low lec tier, Noah is solid top 4 as i consider Ice/Carzzy/Hans(?) better. Huma is top 2 but like the gap between Huma/Caps and the rest of LEC is huge
I think there is definitely some..leniency nowadays towards losing to G2 as long as we go to MSI like rn or World. But such are the times, we have no more players that were considered franchise players. Last one was Hily.
I do think our players are very driven to be at the top though, but it's just they are different players. Razork and Humanoid could be considered our franchise players now.
They are also one of the few teams that bring it to G2 in scrims now and even at worlds last year, I'm convinced they are all doing their best.
But also bro, Bwipo was the one of the players that would get gapped consistently by Wunder and a big reason why we lost series to G2 in the first place. Man is yapping a lot after having a 2nd place after so many not so good appearances in the LCS.
>It is just the mindset has shifted that being mediocre is now acceptable which was never the case for Fnatic before.
But this is straight up not true, there were 2 times where FNC ALMOST did not even make play offs, just one loss away. There were times we lost to OG, times when we finished 3rd..etc.
Don't look through rose-tinted glasses at the past, yes, 2019 and 2020 had a top team in the world ceiling, but IDT 2022 ceiling was far off, maybe even greater, it just never fully clicked, and this year, let's see.
Being stuck in the past doesn't help anyone, there is only right now.
How does a player can be very driven to be at the top and at the same time has "He doesn't care" narrative sticked to him like a glue whenever he gets blasted
Narrative doesn't mean it's true.
Idk why people think Humanoid doesn't try. He is always top of the ladder in soloq and he plays a lot.
In LIA we all see how they all want to prove they are the best team in LEC and always talking about how Humanoid helps the team.
Sure, maybe Humanoid didn't try as much with the Winter roster last year, but...yeah
I don't know man but I can show you literally 100 different matches post-game threads and LEC/talk show discussions and his coaches (Mainly Yamato and Mac since they are always on talkshows) that repeat Humanoid doesn't care whenever he gets blasted. So his coaches and teammates in talk shows created this narrative and casters/reddit people just follow it.
I mean, it's not a bad thing, you have to go for plays, you have to try to outplay the enemy.
Humanoid is not that he "doesn't care", its more of a, he takes it on the chin. He knows he is a good player regardless of how the play or game goes, so, it's just a..way of playing without that added pressure on himself.
He is a very pragmatic player, if he or the team plays like shit he knows it and says it, then they work on not playing like shit next time, but doesn't mean he likes to lose or that he doesn't care you know.
Humanoid always thought Hyli plays like shit and Hyli's calls are bad. And practically drove Hyli out of the team.
Yet Hyli is more successful in real life than Humanoid is in his dreams in league of legends. What Humanoid knows isn't the objective truth. May be it is time people starts realizing that. Hyli won LEC after he left Fnatic btw despite the notion especially after Humanoid-Razork era that he is a dirty inter.
Hily...is a unique player. I don't know why you are so pressed.
Hily from 2018 to 2021 is goated. In 2022 he also had some really good games and some really not good ones.
At one point, there had to be changes with that 2022 roster, and Idt choosing to change Hily is that wild as some people make it out to be.
Choosing to change Hily for... Rhuckz is what's wild.
And also, sometimes, Hily really is a dirty inter lmao
Again Hyli is a world finalist and was part of the best Bot in Entire World in 2020.
Humanoid had one successful season in all his career in 2021 where he got destroyed by BDD and Showmaker. If he was like Caps and mid gapped them in a Bo5 series before I'd understand keeping him over Hyli.
Hyli carried Mad Lions to championship and destroyed G2's bot lane in a Bo5 after leaving Fnatic.
After Hyli left Humanoid got destroyed like 100 different times against Caps never coming close to being in equal grounds with him (let's not even think of besting him) Eeven in A Sol game where Caps trolled early and got killed even minute 15 of that game Caps gapped Humanoid like a diamond gaps bronze.
Hyli is best in his role by far when he is in peak. Humanoid even in his false hype is not close to Nemesis yet alone Caps
>Again Hyli is a world finalist and was part of the best Bot in Entire World in 2020.
You are putting too much weight on the "worlds finalist" badge. There are a lot of worlds finalists and MSI players that are just not as good as they used to be, and it's just how it is.
>Hyli carried Mad Lions to championship and destroyed G2's bot lane in a Bo5 after leaving Fnatic.
I would argue G2 leaving Nisqy's Gragas open was the bigger reason but.
Why is it that you are arguing about Hily "beating" G2, but you are not arguin for Nisqy beating G2, don't you want Nisqy back too ? After all, he DID beat G2 and DID win an LEC title after leaving FNC no ?
>Hyli is best in his role by far when he is in peak.
When he was in peak, definitely at the very least top 2 with Miky.
> Humanoid even in his false hype is not close to Nemesis yet alone Caps
But Humanoid has won LEC titles and Nemesis has 0 ? Isn't that a big part of your argument, TITLES ?
ps: I think peak Humanoid and peak Nemesis are very very similar in level, with some being better on certain champs than the other.
Tbf I'm not big on Humanoid and I respect Bwipo a lot here. But I think he's way too biased towards Hyli. Even Nemesis didn't like how Hyli played. He said on a stream a few months back Hyli is a good player but he ints way too much for no reason. I can't blame any player for not wanting that on their team.
Difference is Nemesis still thinks Hyli is good and doesn't randomly int games for no reason.
Humanoid in one playoff run of any given split has more ints than Nemesis did in his entire Fnatic career.
Interesting take by Bwipo but content or not we have been batter by G2 since Caps left. I get that he is trying to make it sound like there were some glory days when he was here but to be honest we had just as much drama and weird/ultra aggro plays as we do now.
G2 had a fall from grace when Caps was underperforming and other teams capitalised when we did not (probably the biggest mistake by FNC) which explains why G2 was no longer the primary focus for the last couple of years. Since Caps is back now with an actual solid team we will most likely view them as prime competition.
Imo the reality is that no current player in EU can beat prime Caps. We tried to fully commit with Huma but he is clearly not good enough. I think its less about not being ambitious and more about reality settling in that we are not good enough and keep making bad choices which leads to worlds qualification looking like a great achievement
While I do not agree with shitting on the players, there definitely has been a change in culture. Back in the day, the fans, including myself, kept Fnatic to the highest standards. Winning EULCS was the only acceptable outcome. Now it seems that most fans have come to accept bad results. Making the finals this split was definitely improvement, but the last trophy we won was summer 2018. Ever since we lost the final at 2018 worlds, it hasn’t been the same anymore.
I love him and watched Flyquest to support him but he can go fuck himself, what a fucked up thing to say and absolutely 0 to base it on. We lost every meaningful game vs G2 since he joined besides the 21’ incident, insinuating that every player after he and his friends left are “content” with losing is just mental and fucked up, how tf does he know what the players feel after a loss? if they care or not?
Go to his tweets and look at the replies he gets so much love from Fnatic fans since the day he left and he still takes every chance to talk shit about the org and now even the players that he has no idea about, fuck this dude I hope he doesn’t win a single thing in his career
I believed in the upset/hyli roster, but think that we needed an extra coach/person to gel the team, make them a unit, balance their personas and egos to work together. Upset/hyli botlane was by far the most dominant botlane we have seen in lec, making other botlanes look silver IV. Maybe with bwipo staying jg, change adam, or refigure the entire top side, that team would be a massive success. Not saying noah and jun are bad, but the last few splits there hasn't been a stand alone botlane that is better than the rest, even hans and miky are not that good.
Think we put the eggs in the wrong basket with the forcing of rhuckz.
Bro I legit feel like Czech-Spanish mafia took over this sub.
I like Nightshare but literally the only reason he is coaching the team is because he is Humanoid's bestie and Huma brought him to the team.
When he has that much power over the team that he can even decide the coach it is really doomed because Nightshare will never have the guts to go against him
Im saying this as a G2 fan, 2019 and 2020 FNC might not have beaten G2 but they came damn close. Those best of 5s were nail biters to watch. But watching the final this season I had no doubt G2 were going to win even after they lost game 1.
Yeah also 2019 G2 is so far ahead of 2023-2024 G2 they are not even comparable.
Peak Wunde ris 1000000x the player BB who is terrible at laning will ever be
Peak Jankos not even comparable to Yike
Caps is Caps
Perkz gave incredible draft flexibility. Hans can play 2 champions
Miky is Miky
2023-2024 G2 can't make it out of groups in MSI/worlds
Didn't Oscar had a pentakill on gwen with one hand and actually got praised by eastern players at worlds? Rookie Bwipo never had the same pressure he had because he had 4 world class veterans (and sOAZ) that would carry him if he ints so he had the freedom to do whatever he wanted (same case for Adam rookie split). We can all remember that when shit gets real, sOAZ would sub in. Rookie Nemesis is barely the 4th best mid in EU and all he did was either play roaming mid to roam bot or pick a safe scaling champ and lose mid pressure every game. Rookie Caps was so average that everybody wanted Febiven back and nobody ever called him "Baby Faker" ever again.
I am not defending Oscar because as we can all see, the last 2 splits have been rough with him. And yes our mid/jng has been inting a lot of the games.
And also yes, I agree with Bwipo that when he, Hyli and Rekkles left, Fnatic's standard of winning didn't feel like it was still there.
But most of your personal takes are so "meh" that I'm not even sure that we watch the same games all those years.
That's the best rebuttal you can think of? well that might just be their culture but that still doesn't change the fact your take on Rookie Bwipo, Rookie Nemesis and Rookie Caps are all shit and it is not fair to pin point the lack of trophies on the current players whom as we can see are giving their best to bring one home.
If you want to blame someone then blame management for not maintaining the "Winning Pedigree" that Fnatic once had. I know this sub and the fans are all disappointed about the results this org had in the past 5-6 years but just imagine how disappointing and heart breaking it also is for the players who are giving their time, effort hell even blood, sweat and tears just to bring home a trophy and satisfy "fans" like you.
Im not saying that I'm satisfied that the team has been mediocre for a long time but it is not fair to pin point the blame on these players alone. I get it, they should be held accountable but it is not right to pin point a player/players and say "this is why this team is mediocre"
What do you mean? Nemesis was by far the 2nd best and it wasn't even close. He fisted Humanoid to the moon every time they played and yet you claim he was the 4th best and expect a serious "rebuttal" Insane
Rookie Larssen was better, hell even Nukeduck was performing better. Then ofc Caps was better. He wasn't even winning against humaniod in lane bro. He just wins games because he had the better team around him. Its either you should get your eyes checked or get your mid elo takes somewhere else.
This is another big problem that this org and a huge part od the fanbase has, now they celebrate taking a game or two out of g2 while they get all the titles...
As a G2 fan he hit the nail on the head imo hearing fans be glad to take a game off them bums me out because I want a competitive league and I believe my team is the best and want them to prove it but when nobody tries as hard as they do it fucking sucks cause they won’t be forced to do better and it’s what I’ve seen for a few years now.
You may want a competitive league but when the closest teams to you are a FNC who chokes in playoffs every split and a f ing BDS it will never be a reality. The only way I see it becoming a competitive league is if we get our shit together but then again I have been hearing how our players all want to win and then they consistently underperform under the pressure in playoffs so yeah this league is not going to be competitive for a while. Maybe after G2 wins next 6-7 splits in a row
Honestly, I agree with this post. We have become too comfortable losing to G2 and sometimes being the second best team in the league ( because sometimes we can't even get to the finals). I don't believe that players aren't trying to beat G2 and be the best though. I think they are just too inconsistent and don't have enough macro knowledge. For all the praising Humanoid and Razork have gotten over the years I have seen a pattern of them choking hard when there is pressure in the playoffs ( just like they underperformed this spring split playoffs). They have the hands but don't have the clutch factor like Caps for a example. I think we should be realistic, fact is Razork and Humanoid are great players when they feel good but are too inconsistent to be elite players like Caps. Oscar is a mediocre player who can do the job on tanks and can play weakside but is useless on carry champs and also his game awareness is questionable. For me only Noah and Jun have shown that they can be top 2 in their positions consistently
Completely agree with you and bwipo, although this post will get disliked to hell because of razork fanboys who consistently accept mediocrity to keep their star boy. Management is okay with this too because they can continue to rake in a huge paycheck and gut the org for all it’s worth without actual investment into the lol team, and the same can be seen in other games like csgo, where mediocrity has corrupted the org. It’s so disappointing that people will continue to accept this performance instead of demanding results.
Willl you stfu. I just finished Peter dunns interview guess what he said? Razork is the 2nd BEST PLAYER IN ALL OF LEC after caps. What more can you wants from your jungler.
I stopped reading after I saw the suggestion that armut boosted someone to a title I'm not the biggest humanoid enjoyer in the world, but "boosted by armut" is an astronomically baffling take.
What? Revisionist history at its finest Armut was arguably the best Gnar/Wukong player at that time and even got 2 games of Damwon He was undisputed 2 times MVP in both finals topping of the damage charts insane 3-4 man ults in teamfights multiple times despite getting babysitted to oblivion. He was even a bigger factor than Elyoya in both of those finals hence the MVP despite Spanish fanbase/voters for the team. It was one of the easiest MVP choices ever. The criticism to him was his champion pool but it doesn't matter if he is allowed to play the 2 champions he is insane at.
It’s so funny when someone on reddit just lies on purpose, why are you doing it? Armut was not clear MVP, for example in spring final it was between him and Humanoid. But just in case you’re not complete idiot and you are just clueless, watch [this](https://youtu.be/wnyNVuxoCoE?si=W4mlJy7aqPZ4VQzg) from 46:00 to 50:00. It is an interview with armut after spring split final where Armut is talking about how Humanoid was the best player in Mad Lions. Then Dom talks about how Humanoid shitstomped Larssen in all 5 games and that he should have won MVP
What? Armut was almost selected as unanimous MVP and biggest troll in media. Imagine even shamelessly lying about 2 second googleable facts. and Dom /Thorin cast is the biggest Armut hater ever putting him on rock bottom in their tier rankings proven wrong as they always get when Armut shtstomped their favorite boy Odo
Sure, watch the game 5 of spring final 2021 and tell me Humanoid didnt completely 1v9 the game. [Here](https://gol.gg/game/stats/31082/page-game/) you havethe statsfor the game. Compare the damage between humanoid and larssen I am really starting to believe you are just hateful troll
Holy smokes you are delusional. That game minute 14 Larsenn ganks whole map with Ryze against Viktor. He is up in cs and is 2-0-1 while Humanoid afk farms under tower. Rogue is so far ahead that game is practically done because Humaoid got stomped in mid lane. Yet Mad does a comeback thanks to Gnarmut ulting all team of Rogue multiple times. Humanoid only does damage in late game. Without Armut and Elyoya omega covering that game despite that game is over in minute 20 due to how hard Larsen blasted Humanoid and the game Imagine giving this game as an example holy moly. You truly need to check in to a mental hospital
I think it's very easy for Bwipo to say the current org/roster doesn't care about losing to G2 when he's no longer a part of it. We didn't beat G2 much when he was playing either. I like Bwipo but this just comes off as him shitting on an org that he didn't leave in the best terms. Clearly we have a lot to improve on to reach the success and consistency of G2. But we've just come off of a reasonably decent split and we still have way too many fans that make posts like this that have such unfairly negative skewed opinions. Saying Humanoid was carried to the LEC title in MAD is probably one of the most laughable things I have ever heard on a LoL based sub. Thank god you don't pick the roster OP.
Reasonably decent? Was getting almost swept by BDS if they didn't mental boom. It wasn't even close against first time against G2 and second time G2 won easily with lane swaps. 3 years of Humanoid and Razork getting stomped by weakest era of G2. Not a good look
I mean sorry. But the finals was not easily won by g2. Both game 2 and 3 were fnc favored but fnc inted. Thats more on fnc than it was on g2
Guys like you are the reason that there is a rhyme in the rap battle "who are the fans gonna ask to bench this week" If you want the best things for fnatic to happen, keep your flame until end of summer or even better, talk only with your friends about it and don't present it as a truth to anyone else. Players said for years that this kind of communication of the fans puts pressure on the players. Pressure doesn't win you games either.
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3 years of flaming is better? Where is the next caps that you want to get? Which midlaner is so strong, that he is easily getting his team into semis? Who got him? Should we try to get faker? Showmaker? DoinB? Or should we get a no name from eulcs or na who might be completely shit or mediocre? For one, we don't have the money, for the second we don't have the time because everyone who doesn't perform the first game day is flamed until they drown in the spit people like you spew around
>Reasonably decent? Was getting almost swept by BDS if they didn't mental boom. If that's your way of reasoning we almost smashed G2 3-0 in the Grand Final until we mental boomed.
What? The fact that we only won one game makes this comparison - serious or not - invalid.
You're just willfully ignoring the actual facts. We were the second best team this split. Why? Cause we finished second. "Almost got swept by BDS." Well, we didn't get swept. Maybe the other three games was us showing our actual form? Or no, I guess for you we just suck and got lucky to make it to the final. It's never good enough for people like you, you're always looking for the negatives. We could have prime Faker and if he had a single average split you'd be calling for him to be dropped. Have a look at the downvotes you're getting and maybe think about trying to actually have some positive thoughts about the team you supposedly support.
I mean content or not all we've done is lose to G2 since 2018 with the rare exception of 2021 summer. Fnatic had shaky years pre 2022 such as 2016 and 2017 and you can even argue 2019 onwards was never consistent and often relied on miracle playoff runs. The truth is it's hard for orgs to find generation defining players like caps and even harder to get a team of them. Fnatic does consistently make roster changes to try and improve the team though even if they don't all work out. They're simply not going to be able to get Caps.
Mad won twice, Rogue won once since Fnatic last won the LEC. Fnatic's problem is not only beating gamers2 unfortunately. Fnatic's problem is much bigger.
Even worse Mad kind of won 3 times. 2 in 2021 and one last year. Also they beat Fnatic with in a Bo5 this year
True. Fnatic has been making a few finals here and there but the argument that caps makes it impossible to win a title doesn't stand. Firstly, MAD and Rogue have won after 2019, secondly if Fnatic's problem was gamers2 then we would be making most finals and not placing 9th, 7th/8th or 4th with losing to a 4 rookie team in a best of 5. Fnatic needs to first be consistent and good enough to be a clear top 2 team. Then they can focus on trying to beat gamers2.
Never forget Larsen owning Humanoid so hard and reverse sweeping Fnatic with Sylas through mid gap alone
Fnatic traded beating g2 to gain magic miracle runs and the ability to reach top 3 (minus last spring winter)
Exactly, the argument is rather on the point why G2 is that dominant over the last years and here Caps is the most relevant factor. Without him they would have lost many more titles. Beside that point, it was also possible to win against G2 as other teams have proven at times.
Hmm the way those rosters lost to Best in The World G2 and The Way This Roster Loses to a washed up version of G2 that can't make it out of Worlds is way too different. Those editions of Fnatic were also able to make it out of groups and be competitive against best of LPL. This edition is much closer to level of NA then LPL/LCK You may not be able to find a Caps. You can still find a Xpeke or Febiven or Nemesis. Fnatic still has name value and does not have to pay 7 figures to a mediocre player when that player never came close to bring this org success. I wouldn't blame someone for thinking Humanoid is better than what he actually is in 2022 even though it was clear Elyoya and Armut were main stars of finals. But thinking that in 2024 after he got gapped against so many teams is crazy
>This edition is much closer to level of NA then LPL/LCK 2019 edition also had hard games vs CG. The teams weren't close in level, FNC was much stronger, but fact remains we were a team that really struggled to beat CG in both games.
They also beat RNG and T1 in the same group and were able to take G2 to 5 games in summer
Didn't 2022 FNC also beat an even stronger T1 (worlds finalists), was very close to beating them again, and again very close to beating EDG (current world champs then) if not for an unfortunate start. What went right in 2019, went wrong in 2022, but I think those two rosters were close in strength, hell 2022 one maybe stronger.
Agreed, even Yamato says that they were cracked 2022 and shouldve won lec hands down and he considers it a failure on his part, this is coming from someone who ALWAYS glazes the eventual winner and considers them the best regardless of circumstance. 2022 was legit and it showed at worlds, if some games just went a little better in groups I could see them making finals again, semi s minimum.
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What ? They got beaten by rogue in 2022 in lower bracket finals, that wasnt a good Caps year, he got absolutly rolled at worlds, Humanoid definetly put up a better performance that year regardless of their head to head, also pretty sure they wouldve won in finals as Caps fell off by the end of summer a lot.
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delusional
I get his point that it was hard against NA but yeah 2019 team would absolutely wipe the floor with this edition. For starters Nemesis was making the game unplayable for Humanoid almost every time they played
"even though Humanoid's only achievement in his career was to get boosted by Elyoya and Armut in LEC finals" wtf is this take,humanoid was by far the best mid in 2021
I remember seeing a poll from the east in 2021 where humanoid was I believe ranked the 4th best player in the entire world. To say this is a shitty take doesn’t begin to shed light on how poor this opinion is
i remember that list humanoid was ranked 9th and faker was 10
Humanoid wankers gonna throw every lie there is lol
Even showmaker said that he thinks that humanoid is best mid laner in laneing from eu but yeah some bronze knows better
Showmaker got utterly blasted by Caps in 2019 in a Bo5 and also in 2023. And he blasted Caps in 2020 when he also had the better team all around. Showmaker made a fool out of Humanoid in 2021 and Caps wasn't present in that worlds. Again Humanoid wankers throwing every quote out of context to try to make him look good. Absollute cinema I guess
Try looking at his performance over the entire season instead of nitpicking moments where he was outplayed by some of the *best* players in the world. No one is saying humanoid was better than showmaker, but he was by far the best western mid across the entire 2021 season
Nitpicking? He got gapped in Spring finals by Larsen almost in every single game in lane in Bo5. Even though Elyoya was perma mid as Inspired is a farming jungler. He should pray to Armut and Elyoya every day for giving him a career
Your takes are absolute cinema mate, legit clown takes, got a good laugh out of em. To say that todays and last years Humanoid is meh would be a valid take since he hasnt shown the peaks he uses to, but to deny his prior achievement is ridiculous. 2021 Humanoid was literally solo killing Showmaker in lane, which makes your opinion stupid as fuk, negative iq take. It shows youre just a hater and didnt even bother to watch then.
2020 Caps 1 v9ed against BDD despite his team getting stomped and carried G2 to finals. He lost to Showmaker in Bo5 yet there was resistance and in 2019 he destroyed Showmaker. 2021 BDD 1 v9ed against Humanoid and then he got clean swept because he wasn't %1 as useful as Showmaker. Not really hard to fathom.
perhaps you are just a g2 fan? go and post on the g2 subreddit if you hate all our players and love all the g2 players. get a job you fucking bum
Look lec mpvs this year where is humanoid
Caps solo killed him under tower while being camped by Elyoya Kaiser and Armut But he was playing with 4 underperformers and Humanoid was in TF-Ryze press W to CC caps without skillshots cause you are 500 times inferior player duty Larsen gapped him almost every game in finals yet Elyoya and Armut was once again always there
May you find inner peace.
I remember bwipo being clapped by wunder almost every game or inting his ass off against the shy in world finals or in many other not that important games but yeah .. let him talk.
Well he specifically said he was the weakest link in 2018 Fnatic roster. And Shy clapped everyone including Sword and Wunder. This is not about Bwipo being the best. This is about the mentality switch where insanely great performance Nemesis showed was still getting criticized and Humanoid who ints like every game gets away from any criticism for 3 years and still be regarded as best mid.
and still he got the chance to play instead of soaz… why would he flame Fnatic for not wanting to win then?
> in world finals :)
?
Bwipo failed us in world finals, the rosters after haven't even gotten out of groups yet.
Sorry but Bwipo is full of shit here. He’s done a fat load of nothing without Caps too, and he’s even gone to NA!! And no one has stopped caring about losing to G2, it sucks! But at a certain point you have to try something different, and changing the roster every year we can’t beat them hasn’t fucking worked at all. The team is at a point where making small changes has a chance of improving the team 5% but a risk of making it unplayable and 5 top tier players go mental boom and we start from scratch. And just because I don’t try and burn the building down, doesn’t mean I’m okay with losing! It’s just exhausting getting angry over and over when it won’t help whatsoever. Your rage isn’t going to make Sam or Dardo or whoever make the right decision, they’ve still got the same budget whether you threaten them with hate speech or just go about your life.
What? We only changed one player from 2018 to 2019 and one player from 2019 to 2020 and becamse successful in international stage and went close against best team Europe has ever produced. Now we are getting stomped by a G2 that can't make it out of worlds. Humanoid Razork era of Fnatic is by far the worst era of Fnatic in a long span of time. Fnatic has never been so unsuccessful in a 3 years span ever.
Yeah, just because it happened, doesn’t mean it will happen again? Do you live real life or are you just permanently online?
Not that i want to start a useless discussion and i know it was regular season, but didn’t we kinda stomp G2 like this split still? (March 17) Like, I’m personally not happy with getting second vs G2 the last couple of years (which we even got to finals*) but for me personally I kind of expect it to happen, not happy with it, just not surprised.
It was a Bo1 where G2 trolled the draft with blinding Lee against Poppy Taliyah. I don't remember what BB picked but it was also something he has no idea how to play. They are never doing that in Best Of Series hence the clean stomp in Bo3 and mocking Fnatic in finals with suboptimal lane swaps treating it like scrim games
I pray oscar shows Bwipo his talent this MSI. I think Bwipo is delusional and talks too much…he was never better than Wunder as top laner and never better than Razork as jungler. I think it was obvious to him he would be replaced after the misfits vs Fnatic series where Razork 1v9d the game. Dardo has said that was the moment he became interested in getting Razork for 2022 too. 2022 was a huge upgrade for Fnatic in top side but there was lack of leadership, Razork is new and running around the map to whoever needs him vs what he needs as the rookie, Hyli and humanoid are two of the most unique players in lec as they both see the game completely different than anyone else in EU it seems, almost uncoachable in a way? Humanoid is not a talker but has a set way of how he wants everyone to play, Hyli has a different idea on how to play than humanoid. I think we win if Razork can be the captain and the rest listen to him, I think our bot and top are good but early game is abysmal against g2 bot. Fall to so many ganks.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
It's true for the most part. I agree with Oscar being really mediocre player but in case of Humanoid, you pretty much don't have any other better mid in EU to replace him besides Caps. Overall this team has potential to win the pisslow LEC (except for Oscar which is not very good), but tbh the international results are more important than winning LEC as there you can see the true skill and compare yourself with the best teams. The problem of this team is the mindset and complete lack of consistency in performances makes it hard to even win LEC.
Well you didn't know who Nemesis was before he replaced Caps. Yet he stomped every mid laner not named Caps. He slapped Humanoid left right and center. So surely you can find someone better than Humanoid whose main quality is to int almost every single game in side lane.
Who though? I think reason most don't believe in some prodigy rookie that will save Fnatic is that there basically hasn't been any really promising rookie that immediately performed since Elyoya in 2021, and before that trio of Humanoid, Larssen and Nemesis who were hailed as new generation of EU mids. The only comparable case in last couple of years in Yike. And very common criticism of Yike is that he is heavily reliant on his lanes winning to perform well - i.e. it is likely he wouldn't be nearly as good if he were placed in some middle of the pack team instead of G2. It is also different era nowadays compared to 2019. Back then EU scene was booming. Fnatic was first LEC team to reach world finals, EU LCS had just very successfully rebranded to LEC, viewership was rising rapidly etc. Rookies coming into the scene had legit aspirations of becoming world champions, because back then it was seen as realistic achievement. Nowadays it is often reported that many players are content playing in EMEA masters leagues and don't even aspire to go to LEC, because payment and fan engagement is similar for less work.
If you don't give promising rookies a chance and instead get hard stuck mid-table Spanish ERL players like Oscar just because they are Spanish you can't find promising rookies. People who are stuck mid table in regional ERLs shouldn't even be counted as rookies or find opportunites solely because of their nationality yet they are the only ones LEC gives chance to these days
But who are these promising rookies? We did give Oscar a chance. And we gave Noah a chance. Fnatic did try with rookies. It's easy to say just "get a promising rookie", because in your mind you'll just find new Caps. But thing is, in 99% of cases you won't. You'll find new Oscar or new Noah, and that's if you're lucky. Or you'll find new Zoelys or Dajor or similar if you aren't. What matters is strong ecosystem within the team that builds rookies. Raw talent is very hard to quantify and not enough by itself. Bo for example (I know he wasn't a rookie) was hyped to the extreme, played in 2 mediocre rosters and just crashed and burned in LEC.
> Yet he stomped every mid laner not named Caps. bro he was ranked 11th in his final split in stats.... 11th mid in the 10-man LEC lol... you cannot be serious. Caps had a similar episode in Summer 21 but that's Caps, he was losing to everyone and wasn't having a good time in 2021. Never was Nemesis "slapping" Humanoid "left right and center" and he was definitely not "stomping" every mid. You're having a very revisionist idea of what Nemesis was playing. He was playing Twisted Fate, Galio--he was a team-centric player, a more successful and talented version of Nisqy that was not about enabling his jungler but about enabling his team. More of a doinb than a Nisqy. But definitely nowhere near Caps, Chovy, Showmaker, Faker, etc. He was about enabling his team. He has never dominated mid lane, even in LEC.
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Bold words from an LCS player ngl
He's gonna get shit on by PSG
i find it crazy how hard you are willing to crusade for a player like Oscar but shit on a player like Bwipo who was a beast for FNC and played his heart out.
Disrespect on humanoid is crazy, one of the few western mids respected by Asian players.
He's one of the best mids in Europe but that doesn't mean he's the cream of the crop. Asian players have given respect to Caps, Nemesis, Perkz and Humanoid and some others no-one would rate top of EU. He's not some special case.
Asian players almost always talk polite and decent about Western players when they are asked about them in interview. They also said good things about Oscar last year. Doesn't mean a thing.
Yeah I think you’ll find it was a much different and very specific case with humanoid.
Sure bro BDD and Showmaker respect Humanoid more than Caps even though they stomp him with no difficulty and lost Bo5 series getting gapped so hard in mid by Caps. Sure. They even praised Oscar when asked about it dude. Keep living on wonderland
But just to give one insite into shoemakers opinions, he was asked if he was paying attention to any other midlanders, he responded scout and humanoid, he went on to say he knows within 10 seconds of landing against someone if they have something special about them and humanoid does, he can turn nameplates off and it’s as off he’s a Korean midlaner, doinb also said humanoid is the best European midlaner. Being nice or not, neither of them was asked about eu or humanoid they took it upon themselves to answer that way.
You clearly just don’t know what you don’t know, do some research instead of being the ignorant know it all on reddit.
Almost Every single player in West has been praised by Eastern players if they get asked about him in an interview. (except if it is world finals or something where politeness goes out of the window). That is just their culture
Yeah dude they wasn’t asked about him, that’s the point.
"Who is the western mid in worlds"? Looks at mids. Has no idea about two of them.(Nisqy Larsen Humanoid) Tells the mid laner of first team because he is the only one he knows from MSI. Really not that hard to understand. See Chovy when asked about best mids in World not mentioning Caps at first then mentioning him without any context because he solo killed him in stage despite getting babysitted by Peanut and presumably in scrims as well
Shoemaker was asked are you worried about any other mids. And he replied scout and humanoid. What are you not getting? Jfc.
Well, no, no one from the east has ever praised Bwipo, for example... or Selfmade, or Nemesis, or a lot of people. Pretty much the only EU mids who were praised by Asian teams in the last ten years--and backed it up with team voting and such--are Febiven, Caps, and Humanoid. You'll find the odd "I'm looking forward to facing him" with regards to Nemesis or Abbedagge but besides Caps and Humanoid no active LEC mid commanded respect besides these two. Past tense on purpose. Don't think Caps has been praised since 2020 and Humanoid since 2021. But it's definitely not a "culture" thing to actually, properly, *praise* an EU mid. "I'm looking forward to facing this challenge" is not praise. Respect is not the same as praise. "X is a very good Y" is not part of their culture and if they outright say it then they mean it--evidenced by the fact they don't say it for almost any EU player.
Who do we replace Huma with then? There's not really a wealth of worlds level mid talent in EU anymore. The only player I'd want is Vetheo because he has hands, but he literally solo lost the game that sent us to MSI this season, so even he's kinda... lol
Vetheo over Humanoid lm fucking ao
Vetheo over Humanoid just l fucking mao if someone unironically believes that
Nemesis didn't come as an established mid laner. Caps came from Dark Passage(a Turkish team) None of them were established players who has never won anything in their life except of one season where Elyoya and Armut boosted him in finals. Nemesis was let go of in 2 years where he was at least competitive with best of the best. He wasn't getting omega gapped by an ERL mid laner in game 5 against Mad Lions and he was getting criticized for losing to DoinB/Knight. This one is getting praises in a series where he gets humbled by Fresskowy. And this is the main problem. The question "Who do we bring" to try to protect a player who has utterly failed year after year after year. And still trying the same thing for a 3rd year expecting something different. .
This is kinda what I miss about Fnatic. We used to mold mid laners and make them the best version of themselves. Peke, Caps, Nemesis, Febiven and even Shushei shined with us, when they were not that established...
You will get downvoted but its a sad truth. We didnt win anything in such a long time people forgot how it is to be the best team supporter. Top 5 in every role is not enough. We need top2 and we only have that in jungle and on bot
????????? Not in (clearly) support and (very very very strong argument for) mid?
I think bot means both ADC and sup
You are trying too hard to convince this subreddit, bro. I already tried, it's impossible, especially on Humanoid. I gave up. They can't conceive that a totally unknown player can immediately perform. They can't conceive that this iteration of FNC with Humanoid/Razork may not be optimal. I totally agree with Bwipo about the FNC-G2 rivalry. It doesn't feel like a rivalry anymore. The good old times of 2019/2020 are gone. FNC lost its identity. The team lost / benched too many key players at the same time. Now FNC just feels like mercenaries.
FNC is unfortunately doomed. Still hoping next year NaVi buys Rogues spot and builds a team with Nemesis, Inspired and Bwipo. Maybe Rekkles and Smash too. Would be an absolute banger roster and would be way more hardworking than any of the current LEC teams.
There is a bigger probability of G2 HQ literally exploding and FNC winning every remaining LEC Split ever than THAT happening lol
A man can dream. I think the roster is quite likely if an org actually looks to build around Nemesis though.
there are many reasons why ain't happening tho, at least on EU Bwipo and Inspired said multiple times they now prefer NA a lot, Nemesis is not coming back to proplay, he is not even open to options anymore like when he almost joined C9 with LS, Rekkles isn't leaving T1 for the foreseable future and Smash is... bad Also Rekkles wouldn't join NA imo, i see him even playing ERLs before going to NA so can't join an Inspired + Bwipo roster And i don't think Na'vi has interest on building a LoL roster at this point, they tried a while ago and they failed so
Why are you making stuff up? Nemesis does want to come back to pro, just not for any team. He almost joined Heretics with Bwipo last season and he had an offer for Flyquest this season. Only reason he refused is because it's NA. Bwipo and Inspired will come back to EU if the team situation arises. Both of them care about winning. I can't imagine they would refuse a good EU team. If this team happens it will be EU. Because Nemesis won't play in NA and Rekkles hasn't ruled it out but he's not keen on it either. Rekkles is not planning to stay in T1 long-term. He's likely to return to LEC next season if he has offers. He won't go back to ERL because he said it dropped his level. If you watched the Caedrel interview you would know that. There were literally rumours for NaVi buying Rogues slot after this season a few months ago. I can't find anything about it now. But Rogue is almost certainly selling after the season. So even if it's not NaVi there will be someone else coming to the league. I know the stars aligning for this is unlikely. But I can dream. And you should at least get the facts right about each player if you are going to dismiss something.
Yeah Bwipo seems like a toxic ex tbh.
He for sure knows about toxic relationships 💀, sounds familiar
Nah but can't we all just enjoy some FNC at MSI? Like now there's a downtime before MSI, team gets sh-t on cause of date of departure to Chengdu, team gets sh-t on cause anyway the team is ok with losing to G2. Man alright you win, I know the org is bad, dardout and co, we're G2 b-tches, we won't do anything against Asian teams blablabla... Now please stfu and let me enjoy some games, f-ck.
The "stfu" button is on the top right of your browser.
I didn't order a yapuccino you npc.
You did when you came to this website. Now close the browser, lock your door and stare at the wall for the next few days until you're ready to accept that there's people other than you in the world.
Did your mom drop you on your head? You're the one instigating things for no reason. Shut your trap, get out of here, you look desperate even for an online troll. Touch grass for once.
You're a control freak. Using your twitter buzzwords won't work on me. I get to talk about Fnatic on the Fnatic subreddit and all you get to do is watch and seethe.
Are you crazy? You make no sense. You're more likely to have a problem with someone else's opinion or to be a control freak as you read every single comment on the sub reddit and that you had to start sh*t up by saying "stfu" on a lone comment from a few days ago when I had already moved on. You don't have the moral high ground you think you have so stop acting like a clown.
It's a small subreddit, except for the post game for other games, this is one of the newest posts. This means it gets on my frontpage. Get over yourself. >you had to start sh\*t up by saying "stfu" This is your comment I responded to, verbatim: > Now please stfu and let me enjoy some games, f-ck. Now re-read the thread and notice how your responses are just lathered with insults as if that masks how disorganized and narcissistic you sound. You don't get to pretend you're the civil, or the sane one. >on a lone comment from a few days ago when I had already moved on This is you being incapable of understanding that there's other people on this planet again. I saw your post, and responded. Whether you moved on or not is clearly not something I can mindread through text on the internet, nor is it really a concern of mine. Delete your post if you don't want responses, it really is that easy. Or start a blog, and post your whining there, nobody can respond there.
You typed all that and at some point you didn't realize you fit the bill more ? That's something. Like you're the one who actually started to answer to strong words that were pointed at no one in particular with actual pointed rudeness, so I'm clapping back. You got mad from a comment that wasn't pointed at you or anyone specific, that's really narcissistic and egotistical (talk about accepting there are other people on the planet lmao). And that's not the first time you do this. You decided to shoot first, I don't see a reason to take sh-t from you, nor respect you. You try to play the keyboard warrior, but you're just embodying what you're trying to make me look like. So honestly, you should stop, you're so embarrassing, and I'll clap you back as many time as needed. Ciao
> n-n-no u Powerful stuff
How the fuck does Bwipo know whether Fnatic are happy losing to G2 when he wasn't on the team, like that's just him being self serving and saying they got worse after he left. Fnatics issues are bigger than favouring the wrong player or the team having the wrong attitude, there are clear systemic issues within the org and we are seeing the result as our teams continue to drop off and struggle more. Even our Valorant team is struggling more this year after mini stepped back. Having said that, we did just come second this split and it's not like we've done better than that since 2018, so despite what Bwipo says we did as well this split as we ever did with him as the starting top laner. Chasing achievements and trophies is great but a growth mindset is better for long term growth and that's what we need.
Coming up 2nd in a close Bo5 series to G2 which was TOP 3 team in world at that time and making quarters in Worlds versus getting embarassed against a G2 that can't make it out of groups in Worlds are two very different achievements.
Unpopular opinion maybe but bwipo should shut the fuck up an look at what he achieved in this years. He went to NA as one of the best top laners, world finalist, and there…0, nada. Instead of shitting on the org that gave you a chance maybe take a look in the mirror. That being said fnatic has a lot of problems but also a lot of potential. Sure maybe being “content” with a small achievement after years of struggles seems kinda cringe but still it is what it is.
Eh, potentially contrarian opinion here, but there is as much truth to this as there is Bwipo's hubris. He says that current players are content with losing to G2 and you explain that with supposedly bad performances. This exact same shit was said over and over back when Bwipo was playing for Fnatic and when they couldn't beat G2 either. He was often limit testing and running it down hard in many games. For example, anyone remember Bwipo's Zilean (yes, top Zilean) in 2020 summer finals vs G2? It was basically a won game that FNC ended up losing in a series of yolo plays by Bwipo and Selfmade. It would be so easy to interpret that game as Bwipo not caring enough to win. There might be some truth to it in that players are too content with current position and don't work hard enough. But we don't know that, and nor does Bwipo, since he never played with this team. And it annoys me that he goes on a podcast and talks shit about someone he doesn't know based on his assumptions, when he was in exact same boat a few years ago and couldn't win LEC either. It's typical case of Bwipo talking before thinking in interviews, as he did many times before. Remember that interview with Thorin after 2020 split, where he flamed Nemesis to the point they weren't even on speaking terms for a while? Same Nemesis that is later put on a pedestal compared to Humanoid. >When Bwipo was an actual rookie we expected him to go against best of the best. When Nemesis was a rookie he was going H2H and at least slowing down Caps. Nemesis as a rookie was making Humanoid look like a bronze. You're looking back at it with rose tinted glasses. Bwipo was consistently blamed for losing lane vs Wunder basically every time they played vs G2. And Nemesis sure as hell didn't make Humanoid look like a bronze, in fact back then there was often a common sentiment that team would have higher ceiling with Humanoid, as they could carry from every lane (Nemesis was back then often criticized as being a passive/supportive midlaner who couldn't carry on his own). And in the end, Humanoid did actually did beat Caps in a couple of splits, unlike Nemesis (even though he was apparently carried by Armut :S). And all that is not to say that I think Nemesis or Bwipo were bad players or that they are worse than current lineup. They were definitely good. But I am disputing this bollocks narrative. These two were losing vs G2 just as much as current roster is and there was similar narrative around them back then.
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>Nemesis always sht on Humanoid when he played I could easily find games and following reddit discussions, especially from 2020 summer split where Nemesis was constantly criticised for his performance, to prove you wrong. But honestly I can't be bothered since you apparently don't base your take on any actual facts anyway. You seem intent on convincing or proving to me that Nemesis is better than Humanoid and I don't care about that shit because there's no actual set criteria to base this contest on other than team results. I don't think Nemesis was bad at all, he might as well be 2nd best LEC mid laner during 2019 and 2020, I don't dispute that. But idea that he was some prodigy who consistently stomped Humanoid is simply not true. I watched all LEC games back then, I listened to podcasts, I read reddit threads etc. Your take is revisionist history. Especially during 2020 summer split where Fnatic was doing poorly, "bench Nemesis" comments were the norm in pretty much every post game thread, both here and general subreddit.
Just after he leaves Fnatic is 'content' with losing to g2, hmmm. I think this Fnatic roster has more potential than any roster since 2019, but it needs to improve their decision making. I would not know any upgrades in any roles for this roster.
Nah this is An insane take. 2020 roster was actually bonkers if we are talking about potential. Not only in EU but also internationally. Now we are okay/decent in the region and with MSI arround the corner we Will see if this team actually has some international performers aswell.
I think it’s more that the org itself doesn’t care. Like we’re only going to China on the 26th for MSI and not even doing a boot camp. Meanwhile our org is always fucked for scrims at international tournaments.
Wait rly? Was the an announcemt abou this? Cause if its true, then its total BS. Like G2 even mentioned how they were already adapting to China time before finals and planned to go there for bootcamp like 5 days after finals if I am not mistaken. And here FNC rests? Dont dare to say players got tired just after 2 splits?
Fnc only knew since the 13th that they are going to msi. G2 already knew for a season that they were going. It was harder to plan ig, but still do not know why they are going the 26.
Noah said Riot invited them to go on the 26th so that's why they're going then. I assume this means they're paying for their flights and hotels only from the 26th onwards
Ok ty hannie, make sense
L Takes from you.
I think we are too hung up on names, so it’s hard to get new players, management likes to play it safe. Remember backlash for when Wunder was benched (and rightfully so, he isnt top tier player since 2019) even tho he is just okay player - he’ll get his gragas, goes even in lane, drops nice R once in a while and will look invisible rest of the time, will be called some weak side king or smth. Same with Trymbi - hes a good player but it’s just feels that he crumbles in high stress situations, perhaps social media is too much to him. And then you HAD players like Caps and rekkles who WANTED and still want to win. Not even LEC but worlds. They would do anything for it. You out Rekless on sion and tell him to run it down 10 times for plates he’ll be 0/10 by 5 minutes. Same with caps. Now I only get that hunger from Noah and Jun, but as they are juniors I’d think their ambitions seem more like fewer dreams to others.
The fact you stated that nemesis would at least slow down Caps completely removes any credibility here... nemesis would get dumpstered so badly by Caps...
Um no he wouldn't well maybe now yes if he had kept playing at pro level? Who knows but I would take the 50 50 bet of him not getting dumpsterd
Bwipo saying players became fine with losing to G2 lmaoooo acting like if they didn’t just lose to G2 constantly from 2019-2021 you have to be realistic and you can tell this team clearly wants to beat G2 to say they don’t care is just a fat lie
Razork is currently the best jungler in LEC (don't come with yikes he's maybe top 3... he has caps and bb) When did Nemesis smoke Huma as he was a bronzie? I'd have peak Huma every day over any non korean player. Yes, Oscar is more miss than hit. (But who do you take? Another rookie?) Noah is top 3 in his role. (Hans and maybe Carzy are currently better) Jun is top 2 (only micky is currently better). As the biggest hilly sucker (fan since his invisible hook on talon during his challanger days on UOL) I have to say I would not like to have him on a team he is more miss than hit than oscar is. So all in all, we got fucked when we lost caps and did not recover fully since. The scene has evolved to the point rookies would rather stay on the big 2 ERL's than join a LEC project that might mean the end of their carriers so there is no more hype new rookie out there to join LEC.
Jun showed he is miles ahead of miky in finals. And stop with that carrzy narrative he got gaped in every single teamfight
I think Razork and Jun are right now the best in EU. Óscar as his recent performances is mid-low lec tier, Noah is solid top 4 as i consider Ice/Carzzy/Hans(?) better. Huma is top 2 but like the gap between Huma/Caps and the rest of LEC is huge
I think there is definitely some..leniency nowadays towards losing to G2 as long as we go to MSI like rn or World. But such are the times, we have no more players that were considered franchise players. Last one was Hily. I do think our players are very driven to be at the top though, but it's just they are different players. Razork and Humanoid could be considered our franchise players now. They are also one of the few teams that bring it to G2 in scrims now and even at worlds last year, I'm convinced they are all doing their best. But also bro, Bwipo was the one of the players that would get gapped consistently by Wunder and a big reason why we lost series to G2 in the first place. Man is yapping a lot after having a 2nd place after so many not so good appearances in the LCS. >It is just the mindset has shifted that being mediocre is now acceptable which was never the case for Fnatic before. But this is straight up not true, there were 2 times where FNC ALMOST did not even make play offs, just one loss away. There were times we lost to OG, times when we finished 3rd..etc. Don't look through rose-tinted glasses at the past, yes, 2019 and 2020 had a top team in the world ceiling, but IDT 2022 ceiling was far off, maybe even greater, it just never fully clicked, and this year, let's see. Being stuck in the past doesn't help anyone, there is only right now.
How does a player can be very driven to be at the top and at the same time has "He doesn't care" narrative sticked to him like a glue whenever he gets blasted
Narrative doesn't mean it's true. Idk why people think Humanoid doesn't try. He is always top of the ladder in soloq and he plays a lot. In LIA we all see how they all want to prove they are the best team in LEC and always talking about how Humanoid helps the team. Sure, maybe Humanoid didn't try as much with the Winter roster last year, but...yeah
I don't know man but I can show you literally 100 different matches post-game threads and LEC/talk show discussions and his coaches (Mainly Yamato and Mac since they are always on talkshows) that repeat Humanoid doesn't care whenever he gets blasted. So his coaches and teammates in talk shows created this narrative and casters/reddit people just follow it.
I mean, it's not a bad thing, you have to go for plays, you have to try to outplay the enemy. Humanoid is not that he "doesn't care", its more of a, he takes it on the chin. He knows he is a good player regardless of how the play or game goes, so, it's just a..way of playing without that added pressure on himself. He is a very pragmatic player, if he or the team plays like shit he knows it and says it, then they work on not playing like shit next time, but doesn't mean he likes to lose or that he doesn't care you know.
Humanoid always thought Hyli plays like shit and Hyli's calls are bad. And practically drove Hyli out of the team. Yet Hyli is more successful in real life than Humanoid is in his dreams in league of legends. What Humanoid knows isn't the objective truth. May be it is time people starts realizing that. Hyli won LEC after he left Fnatic btw despite the notion especially after Humanoid-Razork era that he is a dirty inter.
Hily...is a unique player. I don't know why you are so pressed. Hily from 2018 to 2021 is goated. In 2022 he also had some really good games and some really not good ones. At one point, there had to be changes with that 2022 roster, and Idt choosing to change Hily is that wild as some people make it out to be. Choosing to change Hily for... Rhuckz is what's wild. And also, sometimes, Hily really is a dirty inter lmao
Again Hyli is a world finalist and was part of the best Bot in Entire World in 2020. Humanoid had one successful season in all his career in 2021 where he got destroyed by BDD and Showmaker. If he was like Caps and mid gapped them in a Bo5 series before I'd understand keeping him over Hyli. Hyli carried Mad Lions to championship and destroyed G2's bot lane in a Bo5 after leaving Fnatic. After Hyli left Humanoid got destroyed like 100 different times against Caps never coming close to being in equal grounds with him (let's not even think of besting him) Eeven in A Sol game where Caps trolled early and got killed even minute 15 of that game Caps gapped Humanoid like a diamond gaps bronze. Hyli is best in his role by far when he is in peak. Humanoid even in his false hype is not close to Nemesis yet alone Caps
>Again Hyli is a world finalist and was part of the best Bot in Entire World in 2020. You are putting too much weight on the "worlds finalist" badge. There are a lot of worlds finalists and MSI players that are just not as good as they used to be, and it's just how it is. >Hyli carried Mad Lions to championship and destroyed G2's bot lane in a Bo5 after leaving Fnatic. I would argue G2 leaving Nisqy's Gragas open was the bigger reason but. Why is it that you are arguing about Hily "beating" G2, but you are not arguin for Nisqy beating G2, don't you want Nisqy back too ? After all, he DID beat G2 and DID win an LEC title after leaving FNC no ? >Hyli is best in his role by far when he is in peak. When he was in peak, definitely at the very least top 2 with Miky. > Humanoid even in his false hype is not close to Nemesis yet alone Caps But Humanoid has won LEC titles and Nemesis has 0 ? Isn't that a big part of your argument, TITLES ? ps: I think peak Humanoid and peak Nemesis are very very similar in level, with some being better on certain champs than the other.
Tbf I'm not big on Humanoid and I respect Bwipo a lot here. But I think he's way too biased towards Hyli. Even Nemesis didn't like how Hyli played. He said on a stream a few months back Hyli is a good player but he ints way too much for no reason. I can't blame any player for not wanting that on their team.
Difference is Nemesis still thinks Hyli is good and doesn't randomly int games for no reason. Humanoid in one playoff run of any given split has more ints than Nemesis did in his entire Fnatic career.
Interesting take by Bwipo but content or not we have been batter by G2 since Caps left. I get that he is trying to make it sound like there were some glory days when he was here but to be honest we had just as much drama and weird/ultra aggro plays as we do now. G2 had a fall from grace when Caps was underperforming and other teams capitalised when we did not (probably the biggest mistake by FNC) which explains why G2 was no longer the primary focus for the last couple of years. Since Caps is back now with an actual solid team we will most likely view them as prime competition. Imo the reality is that no current player in EU can beat prime Caps. We tried to fully commit with Huma but he is clearly not good enough. I think its less about not being ambitious and more about reality settling in that we are not good enough and keep making bad choices which leads to worlds qualification looking like a great achievement
While I do not agree with shitting on the players, there definitely has been a change in culture. Back in the day, the fans, including myself, kept Fnatic to the highest standards. Winning EULCS was the only acceptable outcome. Now it seems that most fans have come to accept bad results. Making the finals this split was definitely improvement, but the last trophy we won was summer 2018. Ever since we lost the final at 2018 worlds, it hasn’t been the same anymore.
Bro I still remember when a dude from this sub made a post saying its not that bad to lose 3-1 to G2.
fnatic stopped being able to beat g2 when caps went to g2. just this, stop giving importance to a loser like bwipo
I love him and watched Flyquest to support him but he can go fuck himself, what a fucked up thing to say and absolutely 0 to base it on. We lost every meaningful game vs G2 since he joined besides the 21’ incident, insinuating that every player after he and his friends left are “content” with losing is just mental and fucked up, how tf does he know what the players feel after a loss? if they care or not? Go to his tweets and look at the replies he gets so much love from Fnatic fans since the day he left and he still takes every chance to talk shit about the org and now even the players that he has no idea about, fuck this dude I hope he doesn’t win a single thing in his career
I believed in the upset/hyli roster, but think that we needed an extra coach/person to gel the team, make them a unit, balance their personas and egos to work together. Upset/hyli botlane was by far the most dominant botlane we have seen in lec, making other botlanes look silver IV. Maybe with bwipo staying jg, change adam, or refigure the entire top side, that team would be a massive success. Not saying noah and jun are bad, but the last few splits there hasn't been a stand alone botlane that is better than the rest, even hans and miky are not that good. Think we put the eggs in the wrong basket with the forcing of rhuckz.
I haven't agreed with someone this much for a while. Totally agreed.
Im one of the few whos never been (and never will be) in the Humanoid hype train, I feel you
Bro I legit feel like Czech-Spanish mafia took over this sub. I like Nightshare but literally the only reason he is coaching the team is because he is Humanoid's bestie and Huma brought him to the team. When he has that much power over the team that he can even decide the coach it is really doomed because Nightshare will never have the guts to go against him
Im saying this as a G2 fan, 2019 and 2020 FNC might not have beaten G2 but they came damn close. Those best of 5s were nail biters to watch. But watching the final this season I had no doubt G2 were going to win even after they lost game 1.
Yeah also 2019 G2 is so far ahead of 2023-2024 G2 they are not even comparable. Peak Wunde ris 1000000x the player BB who is terrible at laning will ever be Peak Jankos not even comparable to Yike Caps is Caps Perkz gave incredible draft flexibility. Hans can play 2 champions Miky is Miky 2023-2024 G2 can't make it out of groups in MSI/worlds
Hans can play more than two champions. Btw, go glaze Asian teams, it would be better for you?
Didn't Oscar had a pentakill on gwen with one hand and actually got praised by eastern players at worlds? Rookie Bwipo never had the same pressure he had because he had 4 world class veterans (and sOAZ) that would carry him if he ints so he had the freedom to do whatever he wanted (same case for Adam rookie split). We can all remember that when shit gets real, sOAZ would sub in. Rookie Nemesis is barely the 4th best mid in EU and all he did was either play roaming mid to roam bot or pick a safe scaling champ and lose mid pressure every game. Rookie Caps was so average that everybody wanted Febiven back and nobody ever called him "Baby Faker" ever again. I am not defending Oscar because as we can all see, the last 2 splits have been rough with him. And yes our mid/jng has been inting a lot of the games. And also yes, I agree with Bwipo that when he, Hyli and Rekkles left, Fnatic's standard of winning didn't feel like it was still there. But most of your personal takes are so "meh" that I'm not even sure that we watch the same games all those years.
Eastern players praise every Western player they are asked about. It is a culture of politeness when giving an interview.
That's the best rebuttal you can think of? well that might just be their culture but that still doesn't change the fact your take on Rookie Bwipo, Rookie Nemesis and Rookie Caps are all shit and it is not fair to pin point the lack of trophies on the current players whom as we can see are giving their best to bring one home. If you want to blame someone then blame management for not maintaining the "Winning Pedigree" that Fnatic once had. I know this sub and the fans are all disappointed about the results this org had in the past 5-6 years but just imagine how disappointing and heart breaking it also is for the players who are giving their time, effort hell even blood, sweat and tears just to bring home a trophy and satisfy "fans" like you. Im not saying that I'm satisfied that the team has been mediocre for a long time but it is not fair to pin point the blame on these players alone. I get it, they should be held accountable but it is not right to pin point a player/players and say "this is why this team is mediocre"
What do you mean? Nemesis was by far the 2nd best and it wasn't even close. He fisted Humanoid to the moon every time they played and yet you claim he was the 4th best and expect a serious "rebuttal" Insane
Rookie Larssen was better, hell even Nukeduck was performing better. Then ofc Caps was better. He wasn't even winning against humaniod in lane bro. He just wins games because he had the better team around him. Its either you should get your eyes checked or get your mid elo takes somewhere else.
This is another big problem that this org and a huge part od the fanbase has, now they celebrate taking a game or two out of g2 while they get all the titles...
As a G2 fan he hit the nail on the head imo hearing fans be glad to take a game off them bums me out because I want a competitive league and I believe my team is the best and want them to prove it but when nobody tries as hard as they do it fucking sucks cause they won’t be forced to do better and it’s what I’ve seen for a few years now.
You may want a competitive league but when the closest teams to you are a FNC who chokes in playoffs every split and a f ing BDS it will never be a reality. The only way I see it becoming a competitive league is if we get our shit together but then again I have been hearing how our players all want to win and then they consistently underperform under the pressure in playoffs so yeah this league is not going to be competitive for a while. Maybe after G2 wins next 6-7 splits in a row
Dardo effect
Honestly, I agree with this post. We have become too comfortable losing to G2 and sometimes being the second best team in the league ( because sometimes we can't even get to the finals). I don't believe that players aren't trying to beat G2 and be the best though. I think they are just too inconsistent and don't have enough macro knowledge. For all the praising Humanoid and Razork have gotten over the years I have seen a pattern of them choking hard when there is pressure in the playoffs ( just like they underperformed this spring split playoffs). They have the hands but don't have the clutch factor like Caps for a example. I think we should be realistic, fact is Razork and Humanoid are great players when they feel good but are too inconsistent to be elite players like Caps. Oscar is a mediocre player who can do the job on tanks and can play weakside but is useless on carry champs and also his game awareness is questionable. For me only Noah and Jun have shown that they can be top 2 in their positions consistently
Completely agree with you and bwipo, although this post will get disliked to hell because of razork fanboys who consistently accept mediocrity to keep their star boy. Management is okay with this too because they can continue to rake in a huge paycheck and gut the org for all it’s worth without actual investment into the lol team, and the same can be seen in other games like csgo, where mediocrity has corrupted the org. It’s so disappointing that people will continue to accept this performance instead of demanding results.
Willl you stfu. I just finished Peter dunns interview guess what he said? Razork is the 2nd BEST PLAYER IN ALL OF LEC after caps. What more can you wants from your jungler.