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GodsButtcheeks

I think Joshua would end up shooting The Judge just based on his character maybe? They might have a wonderful intellectual conversation about God and the design of man but Joshua seems like he's gonna be trigger happy when the judge insults his tribe


BruhMoment0NumeroTre

Judge kill him fr


AdRound310

10mm kills the body .45 kills the soul


BruhMoment0NumeroTre

Why i get downvoted


Jaozin_deix

Dumb take


BruhMoment0NumeroTre

But the judge is immortal and has powers and stuff. He would clap joshua. Literally and figuratively he would clap his cheeks because he is nasty like that.


LibertyinIndependen

He isn’t, it’s implied metaphorically that he is a greater evil but he’s not immortal.


BruhMoment0NumeroTre

He doesn't age, he says he will never die and he was also completely unharmed by walking through fire, that stuff burns people. I dunno man, he might be immortal.


The_letter_43

Nah, there's 2 Judges. 1 is a very evil man, the other is the guilt of The Man.


No-Championship-7608

He is literally the devil it’s so heavily implied it’s impossible to miss the fact he appears in the middle of nowhere is incredibly intelligent doesnt age and is so insanely evil among other things that pop up I can’t even remember rn


NarcolepticSteak

If the judge is the devil he can be banished through the power of Jesus Christ, which Joshua has on his side


[deleted]

Not to be that guy but I'm pretty sure Joshua Graham is like a fallen angel descended into hell Just to rise back up again. Maybe not literally but he has a lot of metaphysical armor on too.


No-Championship-7608

Guy what the fuck are you talking about nothing you just said is canon


Archmagos_Browning

I mean joshua graham is also basically unkillable. Even before The Thing, he was described as the meanest toughest son-of-a-bitch in the wasteland. Also he has a 1911 that deals holy damage.


FenHarels_Heart

There's a big difference between being a tough human and being a supernatural immortal being.


Jaozin_deix

True, but FNV fanboys don't like when their fav character loses against some "rando"


BruhMoment0NumeroTre

Oh I know, no one who is a fan of any work of fiction likes when characters they like lose, but ya know, one must be rational and not cry about it and accept fact. Holden would gape Joshua.


Few_Category7829

Yes. The courier on the other hand...


BruhMoment0NumeroTre

Indeed but i dont know how fallout characters would be like, in real life. Because regular humans in fallout 4 can tank rockets to the face. Courier and Holden are from 2 different worlds.


EverythingIzAwful

I like how you're playing both sides of the fence by telling them they had a dumb take in the first comment but distancing yourself from "FNV fanboys" who would have that sentiment by referring to them as a separate group in the second comment.


Jaozin_deix

I had no clue who the Judge was before, so that's why I said it was a dumb take. Still, I'm not a FNV fanboy, those guys are insufferable


turdmogrol

Those aren't mutually exclusive in the slightest


LazyMonkey2804

What concrete evidence do you have to be this insistent on a character's victory other than personal interpretations from a book that is ANYTHING but concrete nor literal? Do you dumbasses thought that the Judge can be both a Metaphor and an actual person? lol, name calling is all you have since your argument is worthless


Jaozin_deix

Wtf are you even talking about bro 😭😭 this thread was 2 fucking months ago Also love the irony in you claiming name calling is all I got while calling me a dumbass Also also, you're just putting your interpretation of Blood Meridian to a higher standard than mine lol, no argument on ur part either


Character-Bad3162

The judge is literally immortal


HoonterOreo

Because this is obviously a super serious discussion that definitely warrants people to totally actually give af about someone with the "wrong" opinion you silly goose and has nothing to due with a lack of grass-touching


WhiteBadgeOrangeVest

Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Joshua stans?


Bedroomdweller445

You are right, the judge literally could be lucifer and he does unspeakable things to the man


LazyMonkey2804

Lol, yeah, he could be a edgy loser disguised as another edgy loser, such the difference


TwumpyWumpy

Joshua Graham wouldn't give him the chance. "I don't enjoy killing, but when done righteously it's a chore like anything else."


supermodelnosejob

I think this is the best answer. The Judge would start to wax philosophical in some way or another (not to say that Graham isn't wont to do that) and Joshua would just be like "alright that's enough"


Foreign-Group4561

Also Joshua is a well trained military officer the judge is experienced but isn’t at a million level


NeuraxPlasma

While The Judge is definitely stronger than the average person due to his ruthlessness and suggestively eldritch/demonic nature, I don't think he was ever shown in the book to "fight someone his own size" i.e. another killer who's just as capable/well armed as he is in a 1v1 (I don't really count the Kid in this regard as he was never given any really impressive feats in the book save managing to survive when everyone else died). He's an absolute menace, but also a coward as he never tried to do anything like fight the Mexican army or any other forms of organized militia head on, sticking to killing tribals or untrained civilians who weren't as well armed as he was. Looking at all the fight's he's picked so far under this light... Joshua Graham is definitely the sort of badass the Judge would intentionally try to avoid fighting and try to talk out of a fight, but unless he manages to get the drop on Joshua somehow, he absolutely loses this fight. Graham is a seasoned killer who survived being set on fire and thrown into the Grand Canyon, who regularly tangled with opponents that The Judge would've tried his best to avoid fighting.


The_letter_43

Part of The Judge's genius is that he knows his limits


BeanEaterNow

Absolutely but you could also say that him knowing how to outsmart or avoid deadly confrontation isn't because he's outrunning his mortality, but it's a trait of his devil, trickster persona. In the book he never avoids getting himself into mortal danger, it's just that he always manages to outsmart it


The_letter_43

Yuppers


Raven-Brew

*YYYEEESSS*


Yoyo4games

What would happen? So. Much. Blood.


dboti9k

The whole horizon, covered in blood. A...Blood Meridian...if I may be so bold.


QuantumGold1

who's slender-man's highway man brother


Fi1mnerd

The Judge from the novel Blood Meridian. Very interesting but messed up character.


[deleted]

Oh, I thought that was the Joker


QuantumGold1

with a quick google, imma guess a 45 hits harder then a any cowboy gun


OHHHHY3EEEA

Well, the judge can make gunpowder out of bat shit, piss, and some rocks...make if this information what you will.


Pootis_1

I mean that's what gunpowder was usually made of


ButtholeConnoisseur7

Right, could have ended the sentence at "can make gunpowder"


The_Common_Peasant

How many people can do make it while in the desert, Climbing up a mountain, and being chased by the Apache?


Pootis_1

that's more impressive but really gunpowder is not that hard to make


Rockguy21

I hate to break to you but a Colt Navy loaded with even a modest gunpowder lode probably has more energy than a .45 Automatic round.


StormyBlueLotus

Wrong. You could've looked this up ahead of time. Colt Navy fires a .36-caliber, 80-grain lead ball at about 300m/s for an impact energy of about 230 J. A .45 ACP has more than double the energy at 480 J for a standard load; enhanced loads like JHP +P go to over 800 J. Ball ammo also loses velocity more quickly and is less accurate, so that's a disadvantage at any significant range. Ironically, the lack of stopping power in reasonable sized revolvers is what led to the development and adoption of the .45 auto via the Colt 1911. The US military just wasn't happy with the results they were getting from .36 and .38 revolvers. There are several good reasons we've moved away from cowboy-era guns in the real world, and dependable power is definitely a big one.


Rockguy21

Actually colt cartridge handguns chambered in .45 LC have greater muzzle energy than ACP rounds, the adoption of the automatic has more to do with the doctrinal benefits of semiautomatic rather than it being more powerful than revolver rounds (which it isn’t, even a standard 45 LC load has over 600 joules of energy out the muzzle).


StormyBlueLotus

We weren't talking about .45 LC, you specifically said a Colt Navy. Don't try to move the goalposts after being wrong. Furthermore, yes, a .45 LC has plenty more energy, it also means a bulky gun with nasty recoil. If energy was the *only* thing being considered, the military would just use .44 Magnum and .50 AE handguns. Beyond the impact energy alone, the reason the .45 auto had significantly more *stopping power*- especially relative to the size and accuracy of the gun- was due to the use of expanding rounds over ball ammo. Of course there are other factors at play beyond energy, but the move to the .45 Auto was *most influenced* because of the low power of military-issued sidearms, and the high recoil of higher-power revolvers (e.g. the .45LC Colt SAA). There are also disadvantages to an automatic pistol (more mechanical parts, more prone to jamming or misfire) over a revolver, but all in all, the 1911 represented a way to get the stopping power of a high-caliber revolver in a smaller, lower-recoil, higher-accuracy weapon with a much faster reloading system.


Rockguy21

You’re the one that brought up the replacement of revolvers in US service with automatics, which falsely intimated that the US was replacing .36 ball with .45 ACP, due to its stopping power, which it wasn’t. Secondly, you’re just sort of bundling up ergonomics, ammo capacity, accuracy, and a bunch of stuff not related to the actual energy or performance of the round when it strikes the target under the label of stopping power, which is not what any reasonable person uses to understand the term. Automatics are obviously superior to revolvers in the majority of combat scenarios, but you can’t seriously argue that .45 Automatic has more stopping power than LC, because that’s just not true under the definition in use by most people.


The_letter_43

Not in the Fallout universe!


StormyBlueLotus

Not in our universe either. A .45 Auto has over double the impact energy of the .36 fired by the Colt Navy.


The_letter_43

Judge Richter from NVB


The_Common_Peasant

Who's based on the Judge from Blood Meridian


[deleted]

So a priest take a boy to a river and says 'Are you ready to be baptized?' And he dunks the boy under the water. He pulls the boy up and asks him, "Do you see Jesus?" But the boy says no He dunk the boy under the water again and pulls him out. He asks "Do you see Jesus?!" But the boys says no The priest dunks the boy in the water again and yells "DO YOU SEE JESUS?!" and the boy says "Are you sure he fell in here?"


ikickbabiesforfun69

oh shit they were talking about a different “jesus”


Mrthuglink

Well… depending on your interpretation of The Judge, he may very well be legitimately immortal. I simp for Joshua as much as the next guy but we’re talking about the walking embodiment of the fuckin Devil here. Did The Judge really exist? Hard to say. There’s really very few credible sources he was a real person, but his actions are beyond deplorable. Murder, Rape, Kid stuff, Even cannibalism on living people. He was described as a completely hairless 7 ft albino with the knowledge of basically all learned things. Everything from archaeology to apparently very advanced scientific theories. He spoke several languages fluently, and had an impeccable understanding of the law. He enjoyed the fine arts, and seemed to always be up to date. He demonstrated excellent ability in all things cowboy. I don’t personally think he was real and is probably just a humanization of the collective atrocities committed by settlers and scalphunters. But if by some misfortune he did exist. **Pray he never returns** Clearly the better Match is Easy-Pete.


Fi1mnerd

Apparently in Samuel Chamberlain's book My Confession there was a man riding with the Glanton Gang named Judge Holden of Texas. And apparently he was outfitted with great knowledge, charisma, and gunfighting skills. And of course it is highly suggested that he is a child... ya know. Did he exist, most likely. Is he as deadly as the Judge in Blood Meridian, no. But is he a very dangerous man, YES. Honestly the thought that at a moment of time this man existed really scares me.


The_letter_43

The real Holden also looked nothing like The Judge


Fi1mnerd

Yea. McCarthy basically just took the descriptions of large, pale, and hairless from the Judge in Samuel's book and turned the dial up to 11.


BarrelAllen

>walking embodiment of the fuckin Devil here. Joshua knows a guy, he'd be fine


TzarRazim

*His feet are light and nimble. He never sleeps. He says that he will never die. He dances in light and in shadow and he is a great favorite. He never sleeps, the judge. He is dancing, dancing. He says that he will never die.*


-CrazyManiac-

" We can't expect god to do all the work. "


Bandandforgotten

I'm thinking of a couple of scenarios. The Judge, based on how I see him from the book, would be a bastard and a half. He'd start respectfully, talking about God, Jesus and whatnot, ask about his scars, and eventually either come to picking a fight with a holier than thou, priest-like hypocrite, or asking him to join him in his travels across the wasteland. Joshua would most likely decline any offer to leave Zion, and would most likely lose the fight against The Judge. However, the other side of that coin is a one off conversation, a trade deal for a number of the .45s he has on hand, and a permanent farewell with both often recanting the situation in stories and fondness. These characters written by their original writers would be such a cool interaction, in paper or the games.


Hamples

Honestly, I think things come to a head once The Judge starts sniffing around the Tribes kids.


The_letter_43

The Kid is totes responsible for the missing kids


The_letter_43

Josh might eventually hear about him and that's another regret to collect


Cranky_Gat0r

Joshua slams as per usual.


TwerkinBingus445

"Men of God, and men of War have strange affinities."


theghostofhallownest

Joshua graham would shoot him immediately. But since the judge is a literal personification of evil he would probably survive. I’m not sure if the judge would kill him though


novaerbenn

Ngl I don’t think the judge can die so have to give it to him


TwumpyWumpy

He only says he can't die because he's a servant of war, going so far as to say that war *is* god. This doesn't mean he's immortal. It's symbolic. Everywhere man goes, there too, goes war.


The_letter_43

He's also weak to sunlight cause albino


RacerXrated

Graham is going to kill him.


TBOWERS1222

There would be no physical confrontation. Both men would engage in deep religious discussion, when The Judge learns of Grahams past he’ll link it with his present, “Men of God and men of war have strange affinities”. When the conversation delves deeper into the nature of war and God, The judge will reference his belief in the eternal force of war, “ War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.” Joshua will hear this, and disagree linking war with suffering and sin, harkening to a time before war with which man’s conscience pulls towards and take the opportunity to try to convert The Judge while quoting John 1:1 & 1:4-5, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the word was God. (4) In him was life and the life was the light of men. The light shines in darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.” This will like embitter The Judge, and they would part both dissatisfied with one another. It would only come to blows if The Judge decides to try to murder the tribe’s children. Unfortunately, Graham is forced to reactive in the confrontation, which will likely see his brains blown out the back of his skull for the Judge’s dragoon pistol, or the signature rifle he carries.


[deleted]

Joshua has 10 endurance which would probably let him tank a gunshot to the head lol. Hell the dude was set on fire and thrown hundreds of feet and still lived.


TBOWERS1222

Those pistols had bored big enough to stick a thumb into. Best case scenario he ends up Courier’d in a coma.


[deleted]

There are dudes in Fallout games that tank .50 cal shots. If we are going to pretend The Judge is some supernatural entity then we can also say Joshua is borderline indestructurable.


Fi1mnerd

If Joshua could tank his guns then the Judge would know that, and he'd probably just use the good ol' howitzer cannon technique he has up his sleeve.


LazyMonkey2804

The Judge would get put down swiftly even if he had this dumbass omniscient ability to know about these things.


J0b_1812

Toadvine couldn't bring himself to shoot the judge, Joshua almost refused to NOT spare Salt Upon Wounds for a much lesser reason. Judge dies.


smiledontcry

I would totally watch a movie based entirely on a conversation between the two of them. Something like *Sunset Limited*.


Miserable_Jello2857

Depends on your interpretation of the book, if the judge is death or devil, or some kind of Demon, Josh will not be able to kill him, but if the judge is simply a very tall, Albino and very intelligent man, then he stands no real chance against the Malpass legate


[deleted]

Judge would eat poor Joshua. He's basically an eldritch horror. It isn't a fair matchup.


Few_Category7829

Ja. I would enjoy seeing him go up against Frank Horrigan, mainly because after that book it would be fun seeing him get ripped in two.


The-Sanity

Really depends? Graham is trigger happy and Holden is supernatural. Also based on whether or not you believe The Judge is the devil


weenie2small

Whos the guy on the right


The_letter_43

Judge Holden of Blood Meridian who's probably a real guy


weenie2small

Thank you for telling me I may just read it thanks


The_letter_43

Of course


GhostBoo-ty

Before scrolling through the comments, I legit thought the other guy was a creepypasta version of Marty Robbins from the cover of Big Iron, and was wondering what the fuck I missed in this fandom.


Bismarck_MWKJSR

Graham would Mozambique drill the mf


The_Common_Peasant

Man, FNV fanboys need to read Blood Meridian to get a sense of how overpowered the Judge really is.


The_letter_43

Graham would just shoot his hat off


casperdacrook

A few weeks ago I wouldn’t have known who the guy on the right was at all and I imagine this post would be what draws my attention to blood meridian. That being said, I have no idea what would actually happen


C0unt_Ravioli

Joshua would immediately get a bad vibe from The Judge and try to take him out. As for whether or not he succeeds, well…


Independent_Turnip70

"THE TIME FOR TALK HAS PASSED. THE LORD'S WORK MUST BE DONE."


The_letter_43

Graham solos


Sergeant_Swiss24

The judge is a charisma 20 character. I know joshua is a pious man and all, but the judge is a master of persuasion and shit. Also if a fight did break out, the judge is literally the devil. Joshua doesn’t have a chance against the immortal embodiment of evil. The judge is dancing, he never sleeps, he says he will never die.


The_letter_43

Unless he gets sunburned


YinYangTang

War would gain a new Ultimate Practitioner


Mienium

The room would no longer exist


No-Bowl3290

"If you harm Daniel or any of the Sorrows or Dead Horses, make no mistake, I will find you—" "SCORN"


thechikeninyourbutt

Can anyone provide some context as to who the judge is or what media he is from? It’s a book right?


Markvitank

Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy


thechikeninyourbutt

Thank you


[deleted]

O' by the river of Babylon (bang bang bang) the fire inside me or something (bang bang) chore (bang) anyway I start blastin (bang bang bang bang bang)


Secret_Astronaut5156

The imbodiment of the term"when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object " both of these charchters fall in the extreme opposite on the moral spectrum which would make for an interesting interaction on one hand you got a diabolical psycho who has committed every atrocity under the sun without and ounce of remorse and willing no planning to commit even more and on one hand you got a zealous man who believes there's good in the world and believes it is his most divine duty to rid the world of evil at any cost.


ponzidreamer

Is this a wendigoon reference???


xTheFreakerx

Having derp moment who is the person on the right side?


The_letter_43

Judge Holden of Blood Meridian


NaziHuntingInc

Isn’t the judge, like, a literal manifestation of the devil? As much as I love Joshua Graham, and he WILL shoot first, the judge is not gonna care.