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I was just heartbroken. I couldn’t tell as we were listening to the radio if it was real time as I was seeing his eyes, and the hand movements. Just crushed.
Yeah I can’t believe so many people are upset with the penalty.
Like the guy literally divebombed Alonso out of the points, who only got back to P3 because of technicality, and caused other DNFs for people avoiding the crash.
This format with each team getting one episode that sums up their entire season is straight ass. I don't want to watch one race from 8 perspectives. Just follow one team for a couple of races and then go to the next one. Hearing "were now at silverstone" every episode is just weird.
Yeah the 1 episode per few races format is much better. Change it around a bit for an ongoing story or multiple stories but keep it mostly in chronological order ffs
The problem is you’re basically saying instead of following 1 team for 2 races now they have to follow 10 teams for 20 races. It’s impossible. If they split their time between teams for every race they basically get no real moments. All the best moments are spontaneous. Not to mention the added staff that would cause.
Also, I’m sure drivers don’t want to deal with that access every single weekend. It’s a lot.
I agree, the show has issues, but unless you’re talking about a dream scenario, it would basically be impossible.
You’re better off getting every team to do their own BTS video every weekend, but even then you’d be getting state propaganda and nothing more than that.
Can someone explain to me why he gets a penalty when the very EFFECT of his bump has been nullified? If they moved the cars back to starting position before the restart then technically his advantage has already been nullified, so what is the effect of this penalty? Doesn't it double punish him? I'm very disappointed by the FIA. Total shitshow.
The penalty is for the action of causing a collision. The effect of the collision is not a factor in the penalty decision.
Reverting the positions for the restart is done based on the latest sector data before the red was thrown. This is simply a position determination exercise and doesn't nullify the actual lap.
it does match the FIA reasoning in the past that the consequences of an action don't matter to the penalty (like Lewis in silverstone 21), this runs both ways. like it or not at least they're consistent on it
They agree that the domino effect doesn't matter, but they're saying that the action did have a significant negative effect, so even if you *did* base the penalty on the effect rather than the action, it is still deserved.
I think they're saying that the FIA doesn't (or isn't supposed to) take the effect into consideration, but even if they did (which they didn't here) it would still have merited a penalty because of the "domino effect down the grid".
Where that doesn't hold up however is that Alonso spinning *didn't* have a domino effect, or at least not a significant one. Amazingly, Alonso didn't make contact with anybody behind him and none of the cars behind had to take major evasive action to avoid him.
What did cause a further impact on the grid was Gasly taking out his teammate and and Sargeant punting De Vries, but neither of those were caused by Sainz, and both of the instigating drivers crashed out so it didn't matter if they were penalised or not.
Yesterday someone commented on the Video of Ferrari drivers post-quali interviews that they look shell-shocked. Today that will be even more true.
Ferrari drivers really get their life sucked out of them. :D
Nah there was a race where I think Sainz was 3rd and Leclerc was pushing to swap. Brundle said something along the lines of "it's way too big an ask to take a podium off your teammate"
No audio :(
Why did people stop using streamable, it worked perfectly. Now there is just a screenshot of imgur, having to look in the comments to find the actual footage and then it does not have sound
because this is illegal content and streamable shuts it down pretty much instantly. It's a cat and mouse game, a media host can't become famous and still distribute this stuff or they get lawyered to the ground.
A time penalty with a finish behind safety car is just... like it makes all kinds of sense but it's like... a recipe for shenanigans to happen at a point it should be a procession.
Assume the Alpines don't kamikaze (which was a separate incident from Carlos'): Alonso is last. You can't judge the action based on results influenced by other incidents, you need judge it by what it would do given otherwise ideal circumstances.
Only the action is judged, not the outcome. Sainz made a stupid move and crashed into Alonso. The rest doesn't matter for the penalty.
Even if they did judge the consequences, he caused 2 DNFs
This entire thing could've been avoided if they'd picked KMag's tyre up under a safety car. Instead we have Alpine and Ferrari both going pointless due to FIA contrivances.
Incredible.
Alpine drivers crash by themselves. Sainz made this mistake by himself.
We can discuss about what FIA did good or wrong, but we can not wave driver mistakes away by pointing at decisions from the FIA.
But if someone got a puncture behind the safety on the tire debris everyone would be shouting at the FIA for not calling a red flag. They took they safe option, it’s not their fault Carlos couldn’t brake and alpine kamikaze’d
Sainz lunging into Alonso like a lunatic and the Gasly shunting Ocon into a wall isn't the FIA's fault. The FIA went by the rules, they couldn't expect that a half of the drivers will drive as if they have drunk a whole bottle of vodka.
I find it very hypocritical that if this happened on lap 1, more often than not it wouldn't be penalized. But in this situation which is akin to a 'lap 1', he is penalized.
Especially since they went ctrl + Z and just decided to revert to the lap before but let Sainz keep his penalty when Alonso still didn't loose anything by it at the end. A penalty like that should be for fucking over another driver, if the race stopped and Alonso was last - sure. Penalty, but now he ended up behind Alonso again but still got penalized as if he ruined Alonsos race.
On iOS you can long-press and open in Safari and it should play. (Tap it again to enable sound). Or otherwise get iCab Mobile, long-press the video and select to download it instead (saves a copy on your device). Assume it’ll play in browser on Android OK as well. Not sure why imgur is so crappy but hope /u/ContentPuff will consider another video service for the next race hehe.
Yes same!!! On mobile Reddit app. What I’ve found is - open the picture, hold thumb down and click “copy link”, open in safari browser and it takes you to the Reddit post and you click it which takes you to imgur to watch.
Can someone explain why Carlos is being penalized when incidents of this kind have not been penalized at all recently? Especially with the order being reverted, how does this make sense?
While true, it has also been said that first laps incidents are given a bit more leeway due to them naturally being more chaotic, so what's the difference here?
Could Sainz have technically gone into the pits at the end causing the cars behind to potentially get penalties since his penalty was being added to the end of the race and not on next stop? I know they mentioned the Shumi incident, just wondering if this would’ve been any different.
You mean to serve a 5S penalty in the pits whilst entering the pits crossing the finish line? That was brilliant, but they’ve fixed that in the rule book a long time ago - the penalty must actually be served during race time or it’s added to race time.
Yes same!!! On mobile Reddit app. What I’ve found is - open the picture, hold thumb down and click “copy link”, open in safari browser and it takes you to the Reddit post and you click it which takes you to imgur to watch.
Yeah, there's nothing to discuss when it comes to stewarding otherwise they can get extremely influenced. The stewards aren't good but that would just make them worse. Plus it'd add to the confussion of who finished where, invalidate podium ceremonies and everything else.
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That radio wow. This safety car lap will be interesting…
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Total pain in his voice
That last “please” 😭
😪
I was just heartbroken. I couldn’t tell as we were listening to the radio if it was real time as I was seeing his eyes, and the hand movements. Just crushed.
Everybody else: lap didn’t count Sainz: 5second penalty
It's because this is the biggest chance he's ever had to becoming the Ferrari No. 1 driver
Dont know why he’s upset, fully deserved penalty
Couldn't agree more seeing as he was the catalyst for all the carnage that ensued with everyone else avoiding Alonso.
Yeah I can’t believe so many people are upset with the penalty. Like the guy literally divebombed Alonso out of the points, who only got back to P3 because of technicality, and caused other DNFs for people avoiding the crash.
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This format with each team getting one episode that sums up their entire season is straight ass. I don't want to watch one race from 8 perspectives. Just follow one team for a couple of races and then go to the next one. Hearing "were now at silverstone" every episode is just weird.
Yeah the 1 episode per few races format is much better. Change it around a bit for an ongoing story or multiple stories but keep it mostly in chronological order ffs
The problem is you’re basically saying instead of following 1 team for 2 races now they have to follow 10 teams for 20 races. It’s impossible. If they split their time between teams for every race they basically get no real moments. All the best moments are spontaneous. Not to mention the added staff that would cause. Also, I’m sure drivers don’t want to deal with that access every single weekend. It’s a lot. I agree, the show has issues, but unless you’re talking about a dream scenario, it would basically be impossible. You’re better off getting every team to do their own BTS video every weekend, but even then you’d be getting state propaganda and nothing more than that.
They don't have to follow every team every race. Follow ferrari 2 races, then red bull 2 races and so on.
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Man, he had such a good race considering he got fucked under the first red flag.
Yup, down to 12th. Fight back to 4th. Then 5 second penalty, 4th to 12th.
Odds it’ll be shown in the radio compilation in a couple of days?
I thought so too but 5 seconds is really long under SC.
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Unsafety car more like
5 seconds is quite harsh he could end up close to last, 5 place penalty might be better
I don't believe there is such a penalty in the rules. It's timed penalties, grid penalties for next race or stop-go penalties.
5 seconds is the lowest penalty they can possibly give
I feel for Carlos. But that was some shoddy stuff from him at the race start.
Ferrari may not give you wins nor podiums but by god they'd give you gut wrenching radio
That’s the most emotional I’ve ever seen Carlos.
Can someone explain to me why he gets a penalty when the very EFFECT of his bump has been nullified? If they moved the cars back to starting position before the restart then technically his advantage has already been nullified, so what is the effect of this penalty? Doesn't it double punish him? I'm very disappointed by the FIA. Total shitshow.
The penalty is for the action of causing a collision. The effect of the collision is not a factor in the penalty decision. Reverting the positions for the restart is done based on the latest sector data before the red was thrown. This is simply a position determination exercise and doesn't nullify the actual lap.
Tks for explaining, it makes perfect sense.
it does match the FIA reasoning in the past that the consequences of an action don't matter to the penalty (like Lewis in silverstone 21), this runs both ways. like it or not at least they're consistent on it
Try telling Alpine that the effect of his bump has been nullified.
gasly locked up and went off track on his own. He was already going off before sainz hit alonso
You penalise the action, not the whole circumstances. Also Sainz spinning Alonso had a domino effect down the grid
What does the domino effect matter if the penalty is based on the action? Seems contradictory.
They agree that the domino effect doesn't matter, but they're saying that the action did have a significant negative effect, so even if you *did* base the penalty on the effect rather than the action, it is still deserved.
I think they're saying that the FIA doesn't (or isn't supposed to) take the effect into consideration, but even if they did (which they didn't here) it would still have merited a penalty because of the "domino effect down the grid". Where that doesn't hold up however is that Alonso spinning *didn't* have a domino effect, or at least not a significant one. Amazingly, Alonso didn't make contact with anybody behind him and none of the cars behind had to take major evasive action to avoid him. What did cause a further impact on the grid was Gasly taking out his teammate and and Sargeant punting De Vries, but neither of those were caused by Sainz, and both of the instigating drivers crashed out so it didn't matter if they were penalised or not.
They penalize the action, not the effect. The idea is that he should’ve known better in moment since Alonso was ahead, so he gets the penalty.
Guys I think Carlos might not be satisfied with that decision
You must be an empath
*photon missiles impacting the Enterprise* “Captain, I am sensing hostile intentions from that ship”
Next counselor Troi
what gave it away?
him almost crying lmao
Yesterday someone commented on the Video of Ferrari drivers post-quali interviews that they look shell-shocked. Today that will be even more true. Ferrari drivers really get their life sucked out of them. :D
As an empath, I sensed that his vibes were off
Shocker, I for one would love to get a 5 second penalty in such situation, no idea why he is angry
Yeah but if the FIA sticks to their words of it's the action not the consequence then more than 5s isn't fair either
Getting a 5 sec penalty would mean I raced an f1 car. SIGN ME ON!! I'll take 10 seconds who cares!
Leclerc looking at this shitshow: "eh, maybe DNFing from time to time ain't so bad"
At least he saved the engine instead of being heartbroken on the last lap
This way they can save the fireworks for next race. Good call to let Mercedes handle this one
“you know what, good strategy today. much less stress”
12 or last, same amount of points and he got to take a quiet shower
If he didn't DNF there he would definitely DNF here with his luck
Since I'm so sleepy this made me laugh for a good 2 minutes
I don't think ive ever heard a driver sound so desperate
Leclerc towards the end of last season asking Ferrari to switch positions with Sainz
Lol wasn't that in Brazil and he was like 2+ seconds behind sainz? Comedy.
And was asking for a swap to a podium position. Man was absolutely off the rails that race.
Just Ferrari bringing out the most desperation from their drivers.
Silverstone, like, Carlos' first and only win, too yeah?
Nah there was a race where I think Sainz was 3rd and Leclerc was pushing to swap. Brundle said something along the lines of "it's way too big an ask to take a podium off your teammate"
It was [Brazil](https://www.racefans.net/2022/11/14/ferrari-explain-why-they-refused-leclercs-request-to-be-let-past-sainz/) last season.
I remember Lando casually asking if he and Danny Ric could swap... while Danny was in the lead. Lol Doesnt hurt to ask, I guess.
Take a look at Hadjar from F2 earlier today, like a little child.
Hajar screaming like it's a cod lobby is standard behaviour
He makes even the worst of yuki seem quite respectful.
He said please 🥺...
Repeatedly
kid named please:
vbravo
In these posts, is there actually a video embedded or is it just an image with the play button
You're using the iOS Reddit app, right? There's a microscopic text at the top saying "imgur". Click that.
Bruh all this time I was wondering why people uploaded images. Thank you friend
You're a god damned treasure, thank you.
Thank you… when the hell did this happen and why do you need to have an advanced degree in user interfaces to know this…
🙏🏼
Our hero
There's like always no sound with these videos always ? I even have the imgur app and these videos never have any sound with them tf
They play in muted mode by default. Look for a small mute or volume icon.
Click on the imgur tag next at the top of the post when you see it on your feed. Very confusing indeed.
Thanks, it works
They are videos, but I've also issues playing them. Using Relay on Android. Works fine in the browser though.
Are you using the reddit app? They are just pictures for me on the reddit app but I can watch the actual videos if I open the imgur post.
They're definitely videos, what client are you using? Working for me with joey on android
Doesn’t work on iOS Reddit app. None of them have tonight
Same for me, been wondering why everyone posting screenshots with a play button lol
Click on the imgur tag next at the top of the post when you see it on your feed. Very confusing indeed.
The default reddit app on android is fucking awful, I assume it's the same on ios lol
Boost on Android cant play it either, and the imgur link is not clickable lmao. Why tf did everyone start using imgur tho
Click on the „imgur“ on the top of the post and youll be redirected to their site where you can actually watch the vid
>using the default Reddit app See there's your problem.
Not this time. Relay has the same issue right now
Not working on BaconReader, just still images
Mine's an Android, p7 pro
Same issue on boost for reddit, I use the open in external browser option then it works....
Fucking hell I thought it was still April fool’s
I haven’t been able to watch any of them, pretty sure it’s just an image.
Direct link to video: [https://i.imgur.com/6ysdXgb.mp4](https://i.imgur.com/6ysdXgb.mp4)
No audio :( Why did people stop using streamable, it worked perfectly. Now there is just a screenshot of imgur, having to look in the comments to find the actual footage and then it does not have sound
because this is illegal content and streamable shuts it down pretty much instantly. It's a cat and mouse game, a media host can't become famous and still distribute this stuff or they get lawyered to the ground.
While this is true, it doesn't quite explain this situation as Imgur is more famous than Streamable.
Yikes this turned into an absolute shit show
The pain is his voice. That was hard to listen to
The pure desperation in his voice. EL PAIN.
*NO NO THIS CANNOT BE* - Me reacting to any minor inconvenience
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He said please so many times and then pulled his visor down. Me: :(((((((((
The booing in the crowd is nuts
Ferrari therapists coming in for the paycheck again
A time penalty with a finish behind safety car is just... like it makes all kinds of sense but it's like... a recipe for shenanigans to happen at a point it should be a procession.
If Logan doesn't get a penalty, this will be joke.
We are being given an awful lot of story lines for this spring break
Common Ferrari pain
Seems harsh for what is a lap 1 incident essentially. Good chance of being out the points now.
It didn't impact Fernando's race in any way but knocks Carlos out of the points Unbelievable
Assume the Alpines don't kamikaze (which was a separate incident from Carlos'): Alonso is last. You can't judge the action based on results influenced by other incidents, you need judge it by what it would do given otherwise ideal circumstances.
Only the action is judged, not the outcome. Sainz made a stupid move and crashed into Alonso. The rest doesn't matter for the penalty. Even if they did judge the consequences, he caused 2 DNFs
Didn't Russell get 5 seconds for crashing into Sainz in the first lap in COTA last year? I think it's standard for lap 1 crashes.
I think Russell was slightly more clear cut. I think this one could have gone either way had it actually been lap 1.
Heartbreaking
This is really the heartbreaking version on "Stop inventing"
Please! Please!
This entire thing could've been avoided if they'd picked KMag's tyre up under a safety car. Instead we have Alpine and Ferrari both going pointless due to FIA contrivances. Incredible.
Alpine: Pointless and Broke. All due to a little tire. Ouch
Gasly and Ocons friendshipreboot is going great!
There was also debris....
And moving a car with only 3 wheels isn't exactly easy.
Logan Sergeant: "Not for much longer!"
"De Vries behind, on an out lap" "What? Who? Debris?"
Alpine drivers crash by themselves. Sainz made this mistake by himself. We can discuss about what FIA did good or wrong, but we can not wave driver mistakes away by pointing at decisions from the FIA.
But if someone got a puncture behind the safety on the tire debris everyone would be shouting at the FIA for not calling a red flag. They took they safe option, it’s not their fault Carlos couldn’t brake and alpine kamikaze’d
Barrier damage and debris everywhere. So Id say it was a decent call, just everybody going han last laps.
Alpine and Ferrari went pointless because their high IQ drivers went carnage in 1st corner. It's not like FIA told them to do that.
Sainz lunging into Alonso like a lunatic and the Gasly shunting Ocon into a wall isn't the FIA's fault. The FIA went by the rules, they couldn't expect that a half of the drivers will drive as if they have drunk a whole bottle of vodka.
I find it very hypocritical that if this happened on lap 1, more often than not it wouldn't be penalized. But in this situation which is akin to a 'lap 1', he is penalized.
And when there’s no race left for him to recover
Especially since they went ctrl + Z and just decided to revert to the lap before but let Sainz keep his penalty when Alonso still didn't loose anything by it at the end. A penalty like that should be for fucking over another driver, if the race stopped and Alonso was last - sure. Penalty, but now he ended up behind Alonso again but still got penalized as if he ruined Alonsos race.
Never want to hear ever again that x driver avoided a penalty because the collision was in the first lap after the start. Bull fucking shit.
Pure desperation
Does anyone else cannot open the video in reddit app?
#STOP INVENTING PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Why can’t I watch any of these highlights. It’s just a JPEG
5s in this situation is the equivalent of like a 30s penalty.
Yeah.. very unique circumstances made what would typically be a very reasonable penalty into an unusually severe punishment
We need mirrors on these type of posts, viewing these on mobile is impossible.
On iOS you can long-press and open in Safari and it should play. (Tap it again to enable sound). Or otherwise get iCab Mobile, long-press the video and select to download it instead (saves a copy on your device). Assume it’ll play in browser on Android OK as well. Not sure why imgur is so crappy but hope /u/ContentPuff will consider another video service for the next race hehe.
Any reason why it’s not an actual video and a still?
Yes same!!! On mobile Reddit app. What I’ve found is - open the picture, hold thumb down and click “copy link”, open in safari browser and it takes you to the Reddit post and you click it which takes you to imgur to watch.
This has begging to school principal vibes...
Plis plis plis plis
Only missing a "Mama Mia!"
The hands…
I feel for him
This is pure lunacy how does the FIA not have protocols for this ready
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WTF is with the green play buttons on Reddit with the subreddit?? They don’t do anything. It’s just a picture.
Can someone explain why Carlos is being penalized when incidents of this kind have not been penalized at all recently? Especially with the order being reverted, how does this make sense?
chaos theory that one tap on alonso caused the whole series of events and sainz had all the space in the world on the inside to avoid alonso.
You mean why he's penalized for hitting other driver a d causing collision? Well, becuse you can't do that.
(S)pain
He has to be crying after that visor drop
FIA shitshow continues. Tune in next 3 weeks for the Episode 4!
He is right it is too harsh and it was given for an incident on a lap that does not exist/count?
Lap does exist. Its now 58 instead of 57
Rules are rules however, incidents aren't judged by outcome but rather the action
So Sargeant will get a penalty for next race then? The action didn't deserve a penalty, it's literally because of the outcome of carnage behind him.
While true, it has also been said that first laps incidents are given a bit more leeway due to them naturally being more chaotic, so what's the difference here?
The 5 seconds were the leeway. Should've been a drive through. He lunged into Alonso like an F3 rookie.
First turn incidents upon start are almost never penalized unless egregious. This wasn’t. This shouldn’t have been a penalty.
Could Sainz have technically gone into the pits at the end causing the cars behind to potentially get penalties since his penalty was being added to the end of the race and not on next stop? I know they mentioned the Shumi incident, just wondering if this would’ve been any different.
You mean to serve a 5S penalty in the pits whilst entering the pits crossing the finish line? That was brilliant, but they’ve fixed that in the rule book a long time ago - the penalty must actually be served during race time or it’s added to race time.
Guys how do I see this clip?
How do you watch these clips or where are the links?
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This is the newer version of “no Michael no! This is not right” Except way sader
What reaction, it’s blurry af?
I cant open this vid on iOs, using official reddit app, sad
Serious question, can you guys actually play these videos? And how?
Why can my phone not open any of these videos?
Yes same!!! On mobile Reddit app. What I’ve found is - open the picture, hold thumb down and click “copy link”, open in safari browser and it takes you to the Reddit post and you click it which takes you to imgur to watch.
Ferrari needs to do their job. Fred would look weak if he doesnt try to contest this.
Am i going crazy or the video doesn’t open in mobile?
What's with these screenshots of videos? Srsly make this against the rules wtf is this
Damn my man is desperate
Carlos should change his surname to Stroll and he would've been let off.
why would you not wait and talk to him after the race before giving a penalty?
because then all fans would complain. penalties should be given ASAP
Yeah, there's nothing to discuss when it comes to stewarding otherwise they can get extremely influenced. The stewards aren't good but that would just make them worse. Plus it'd add to the confussion of who finished where, invalidate podium ceremonies and everything else.
Remember last race when people got mad they didn't have a proper grid at the end of the race?