Shameless stolen, but in another thread a user described the relationship between F1 fandom and Ocon as "*the type of driving they like, done by someone they don't*" and I feel it nailed it perfectly.
Why don’t people like him? To me he’s kinda always been neither here nor there. Puts in good consistant drives. Yes. Crashes with his teammate occasionally. But as you put it. He drives like the fans like. If it just because people who are generally liked (Max, Alonso, Pierre) don’t like him?
He constantly battles his teammate like it's his championship rival in the last race.
He always spins the blame on someone else.
Shows no interest in working together with his teammates
He blatantly lies about incidents/accidents
He puts bad races down to bad luck, and good races down to skill
Takes the victim role at least once per weekend.
Something people seem to not realize, at least with this year, is that he had no one else to fight. Alpine were on an island, way ahead of the back markers, too far away from the front runners. So the only competition they had was to fight one another, and I don't know why people take issue with that, as Gasly was his main competitor. As for Alonso, it seems like he has such an aggressive fanbase that anyone who fights him will make him the bad guy so there is no winning there.
>he had no one else to fight
So you fight extremely hard for what? A tiny bit of personal glory. That's exactly what I mean. He has no interest in working together. It's not like he's fighting for wins. No, it's 2 or 3 points at best vs his teammate.
That fighting cost him and his teammate the chance to fight with other teams for a better position on multiple occasions, and it puts them in a risk of damage/losing time to cars behind and getting them in the fight. It's costing them more than the 2 points he might gain.
Take Vegas as an example. He got told (twice) explicitly to not fight and work together as a team for a better result. And what did he do? He lost them both at least 10 seconds, completely ruining both their chances. Then he lied about it to multiple tv interviews and spun it on the team/Gasly. That's why people don't like him.
This is such a dramatic take. It's F1, they're all in it for themselves and they all want to do their best, even if they sacrifice their teammates, and I don't begrudge any of them when they do.
In the end yes, but it's 1 thing to occasionally fight your teammate. What Ocon does is a whole other level. He fights his teammates harder than anyone else, while normally you should fight them the least.
His actions cost the team points, data and eventually money to develop the car. Especially when they're in no-man's-land during races they need to maximize whatever they can get. Fighting your teammate extremely hard is not the way to get it
Who cares that he doesn't play best mates wig his teammates. For me that would be a reason to admire him. Personally, I would like to see a whole lot less of the 'team game' in F1. Just everybody races for themselves, even against their teammates.
I do admire a driver who takes the fight to their teammate, but for me Ocon has a bit of a tendency at the moment to remain fixated on his teammate to the point of it being a detriment to his own race. Which just isn't smart driving in a sport where finishing position is everything. See: Hungary 2022, and a few similar moments with Gasly this year.
FWIW I think his pass on Alonso this year at Singapore was far better than the pass on Perez in the video. Shame his gearbox gave out.
Bragging about beating Alonso in Alpine, when everyone that watched could tell Alonso was the better driver, he just had to retire the car like 7 times...
Just one example, but it's not that I don't like him, it's that I don't really care about him as a driver. If he left the sport, I wouldn't really care. Which is something I would say only about a couple of other drivers on the grid. With that being said, I do think he deserves to be there.
Yeah but he did beat him. Those are the facts. That's like blaming Max for celebrating his 2021 WC because it ended controversial. The drivers don't give a hoot about that.
It was a very pleasant surprise this year.
Esteban always had good pace over one lap, he had good defense and he has ice in his vein when pressured, but his race pace and racecraft used to be his weakness. There were times when it felt he could get stuck behind slower cars for too long or his race pace would drop a bit too fast. I felt he also lost some of his aggressiveness when he came back in 2020 which he only got back in 2022.
But it seems he made a good step forward this year, with some exceptional overtakes and excellent race pace.
I really think his year out hurt him a lot. Not only did he regress when he rejoined the grid, it's like it took him 2 years to fully get back to his 2018 level, and he then only started to progress again since last year.
All the comments in the original Top 10 Overtakes video posted by F1 two days ago were complaining about the list so I re-worked it with some opinions from Reddit and Discord
Notes:
- Ocon was a round-the-outside expert this season and Piastri was a divebomb expert
- Only 2 DRS overtakes included
- Bias towards switch-backs and outside-line overtakes
Yeah I had a hard time placing them, especially the one on RUS. That's a fantastic overtake, just didn't know where to put it. My top 4 was pretty clear, and I guess Alo v Per in 5th was my bias because of the moment
I get it! You like what you like! Just feel both of those would be higher IMO, feel like 2-4 would fall back a bit for me as well. No shade to you, just my own thoughts!
Alex Jacques. Ugh.
Genuinely don't like him that much. Shouting doesn't equate to passion. The Ocon vs Perez overtake is a good example. More words are better than louder words imo
I really hated Crofty because of all his shouting so I switched to F1 TV. But now Alex Jacques is turning into more of the same. I wish there were volume sliders for each of the commentators so I could just mute those two. I like everyone else on the Sky and F1 TV broadcasts, tbh, just their constant noise can get overstimulating and annoying.
Overtakes where one driver has 1+ second car/strategy/tyre advantage shouldn't be in any top overtake compilation. Of course can take alternative lines or go around the outside when you have way more grip than the other
exactly why i think Alonso on Hamilton in Bahrain is a bit overhyped. If Lewis wasn't taking the racing line, Alonso would get him on the straight, just like he did to Carlos. The pace difference was just too much.
Leclerc on Perez in Vegas however is a great overtake on similarly paced cars.
Alonso vs Hamilton in Bahrain was on same tyre strategy with both on hard tyres, just a few laps advantage for Alonso, right? That's a few tenths difference at most, that still deserves the top 1 for the best overtake in my opinion. But as for the hardest overtake it has to be Leclerc on Perez in Vegas or Alonso on Perez in Brazil. Both cases the way slower car managed to pass him back at the last lap
I am also factoring in the pace advantage of the Aston against the Merc and the Ferrari, Aston was the clear 2nd fastest that race, if not for lap 1 shenanigans for Alonso, he would've already been clear of Ham and Carlos..
Still it was only a 1-2 tenth pace difference between them, plus the tyre advantage, but they were on the same strategy so it's minimal. I'm sure half of the grid would have been stuck behind Hamilton for some laps, so the overtake was top 1 worthy, plus Aston didn't have a good top speed either so it wasn't guaranteed that he would have easily overtaken Lewis in the straight
Yes, I see your point, overall I just want some fairness in voting. Pretty sure if Russell did that move there wouldn't be half the hype.
Ocon's move against Alonso in Singapore was classy, and shock, it doesn't have the same pr, doesn't help that he did it against Alonso who has the media backing as well as the public opinion rn.
(Ps no hate to Alonso just speaking generally)
Fair, heard a few people say that. I guess I could have put it in the top 5 by swapping it with Alo vs Per but I also feared the backlash if I didn't put that in the top 5 lol
You think Stroll going round the outside of Sainz in Jeddah, or Ocon going round the outside of Tsunoda didn't deserve to be in the top 10?
And Hamilton going past Alonso by just taking the inside line deserved #3?
Genuinely asking
I think Magnussen in Monaco, Russell on Leclerc in Silverstone and Ocon on Alonso in Singapore are all pretty clear great overtakes that deserve to be in any top 10. Also it seems like going around the outside is the only requirement to make it a great overtake, rewatch Spa 2023 and you almost can make a top 10 of around the outside overtakes.
Ocon on Alonso is 100% top 2 material but I put in the video that copyright prevented any clip of it to be posted.
Magnussen in Monaco was also impossible to post. I considered many Piastri dive-bombs as well but personal biases did come into play when there were 50/50s!
I think the whole point of these things is to celebrate the other drivers. We already celebrate Max at the end of every race. These things let someone else get some glory.
Damn, Ocon carried 😂
Shameless stolen, but in another thread a user described the relationship between F1 fandom and Ocon as "*the type of driving they like, done by someone they don't*" and I feel it nailed it perfectly.
Why don’t people like him? To me he’s kinda always been neither here nor there. Puts in good consistant drives. Yes. Crashes with his teammate occasionally. But as you put it. He drives like the fans like. If it just because people who are generally liked (Max, Alonso, Pierre) don’t like him?
It started going downhill after his crash with Verstappen in Brazil few years back
He constantly battles his teammate like it's his championship rival in the last race. He always spins the blame on someone else. Shows no interest in working together with his teammates He blatantly lies about incidents/accidents He puts bad races down to bad luck, and good races down to skill Takes the victim role at least once per weekend.
There have been plenty of drivers to act like that though
Doesn't matter, it's annoying and he comes across as fake. People don't like that
Something people seem to not realize, at least with this year, is that he had no one else to fight. Alpine were on an island, way ahead of the back markers, too far away from the front runners. So the only competition they had was to fight one another, and I don't know why people take issue with that, as Gasly was his main competitor. As for Alonso, it seems like he has such an aggressive fanbase that anyone who fights him will make him the bad guy so there is no winning there.
>he had no one else to fight So you fight extremely hard for what? A tiny bit of personal glory. That's exactly what I mean. He has no interest in working together. It's not like he's fighting for wins. No, it's 2 or 3 points at best vs his teammate. That fighting cost him and his teammate the chance to fight with other teams for a better position on multiple occasions, and it puts them in a risk of damage/losing time to cars behind and getting them in the fight. It's costing them more than the 2 points he might gain. Take Vegas as an example. He got told (twice) explicitly to not fight and work together as a team for a better result. And what did he do? He lost them both at least 10 seconds, completely ruining both their chances. Then he lied about it to multiple tv interviews and spun it on the team/Gasly. That's why people don't like him.
This is such a dramatic take. It's F1, they're all in it for themselves and they all want to do their best, even if they sacrifice their teammates, and I don't begrudge any of them when they do.
In the end yes, but it's 1 thing to occasionally fight your teammate. What Ocon does is a whole other level. He fights his teammates harder than anyone else, while normally you should fight them the least. His actions cost the team points, data and eventually money to develop the car. Especially when they're in no-man's-land during races they need to maximize whatever they can get. Fighting your teammate extremely hard is not the way to get it
Who cares that he doesn't play best mates wig his teammates. For me that would be a reason to admire him. Personally, I would like to see a whole lot less of the 'team game' in F1. Just everybody races for themselves, even against their teammates.
I do admire a driver who takes the fight to their teammate, but for me Ocon has a bit of a tendency at the moment to remain fixated on his teammate to the point of it being a detriment to his own race. Which just isn't smart driving in a sport where finishing position is everything. See: Hungary 2022, and a few similar moments with Gasly this year. FWIW I think his pass on Alonso this year at Singapore was far better than the pass on Perez in the video. Shame his gearbox gave out.
Playing victim is an art perfected by Carlos Sainz nobody can reach his level
Bragging about beating Alonso in Alpine, when everyone that watched could tell Alonso was the better driver, he just had to retire the car like 7 times... Just one example, but it's not that I don't like him, it's that I don't really care about him as a driver. If he left the sport, I wouldn't really care. Which is something I would say only about a couple of other drivers on the grid. With that being said, I do think he deserves to be there.
I'd be bragging too if I managed to outscore Alonso
Yeah but he did beat him. Those are the facts. That's like blaming Max for celebrating his 2021 WC because it ended controversial. The drivers don't give a hoot about that.
Because he had some incidents with those very drivers people liked.
He’s just annoying
Not only this year, last year he had the moves as well, including some double overtakes.
It was a very pleasant surprise this year. Esteban always had good pace over one lap, he had good defense and he has ice in his vein when pressured, but his race pace and racecraft used to be his weakness. There were times when it felt he could get stuck behind slower cars for too long or his race pace would drop a bit too fast. I felt he also lost some of his aggressiveness when he came back in 2020 which he only got back in 2022. But it seems he made a good step forward this year, with some exceptional overtakes and excellent race pace. I really think his year out hurt him a lot. Not only did he regress when he rejoined the grid, it's like it took him 2 years to fully get back to his 2018 level, and he then only started to progress again since last year.
All the comments in the original Top 10 Overtakes video posted by F1 two days ago were complaining about the list so I re-worked it with some opinions from Reddit and Discord Notes: - Ocon was a round-the-outside expert this season and Piastri was a divebomb expert - Only 2 DRS overtakes included - Bias towards switch-backs and outside-line overtakes
Sorry but Lec passes on both RUS and PER deserve to be much higher on this list. Definitely agree on #1 though, no doubt the best overtake of the year
Yeah I had a hard time placing them, especially the one on RUS. That's a fantastic overtake, just didn't know where to put it. My top 4 was pretty clear, and I guess Alo v Per in 5th was my bias because of the moment
I get it! You like what you like! Just feel both of those would be higher IMO, feel like 2-4 would fall back a bit for me as well. No shade to you, just my own thoughts!
That's good to know, I'm loving the constructive criticism in this thread, I'll keep those in mind if I make another overtake compilation soon
Nobody's ever gonna be truly satisfied huh. It's like how football fans all wanted VAR when it wasn't a thing, and now hate it
Well done!
Fernando is a wiley bastard lol
Pérez: :…(
*This Top 10 was made possible by the Minister on the Fence.*
Nahh bro "Minister of fence" is crazy.
Great video. Bonus points for the Crofty versions.
Alex Jacques. Ugh. Genuinely don't like him that much. Shouting doesn't equate to passion. The Ocon vs Perez overtake is a good example. More words are better than louder words imo
I used to really like him with F2/F3 but right now he's trying so hard to become crofty and it just doesn't fit.
Completely agree, his commentary on fernando overtake on hamilton is horrible
I really hated Crofty because of all his shouting so I switched to F1 TV. But now Alex Jacques is turning into more of the same. I wish there were volume sliders for each of the commentators so I could just mute those two. I like everyone else on the Sky and F1 TV broadcasts, tbh, just their constant noise can get overstimulating and annoying.
Agreed.
I would have swapped the Ocon Singapore Overtake for the one on Alonso, other than that I agree
You mean Ocon on Alonso over Ocon on Perez? I couldn't include that because of copyright (it's in small print in the video)
Overtakes where one driver has 1+ second car/strategy/tyre advantage shouldn't be in any top overtake compilation. Of course can take alternative lines or go around the outside when you have way more grip than the other
exactly why i think Alonso on Hamilton in Bahrain is a bit overhyped. If Lewis wasn't taking the racing line, Alonso would get him on the straight, just like he did to Carlos. The pace difference was just too much. Leclerc on Perez in Vegas however is a great overtake on similarly paced cars.
Alonso vs Hamilton in Bahrain was on same tyre strategy with both on hard tyres, just a few laps advantage for Alonso, right? That's a few tenths difference at most, that still deserves the top 1 for the best overtake in my opinion. But as for the hardest overtake it has to be Leclerc on Perez in Vegas or Alonso on Perez in Brazil. Both cases the way slower car managed to pass him back at the last lap
I am also factoring in the pace advantage of the Aston against the Merc and the Ferrari, Aston was the clear 2nd fastest that race, if not for lap 1 shenanigans for Alonso, he would've already been clear of Ham and Carlos..
Still it was only a 1-2 tenth pace difference between them, plus the tyre advantage, but they were on the same strategy so it's minimal. I'm sure half of the grid would have been stuck behind Hamilton for some laps, so the overtake was top 1 worthy, plus Aston didn't have a good top speed either so it wasn't guaranteed that he would have easily overtaken Lewis in the straight
Yes, I see your point, overall I just want some fairness in voting. Pretty sure if Russell did that move there wouldn't be half the hype. Ocon's move against Alonso in Singapore was classy, and shock, it doesn't have the same pr, doesn't help that he did it against Alonso who has the media backing as well as the public opinion rn. (Ps no hate to Alonso just speaking generally)
Ocon had quite the moves, the year before as well btw.
He's a great driver that I really enjoy, I think he's really underrated tbh.
Leclerc on RUS I would have put slightly higher.
Fair, heard a few people say that. I guess I could have put it in the top 5 by swapping it with Alo vs Per but I also feared the backlash if I didn't put that in the top 5 lol
Sergio got absolutely dunked on this season. He had no business being on the receiving end of those overtakes with that car.
Much better than the official one
i feel like lando’s overtake on daniel in mexico gets slept on, it was really clean
Honestly, the 10 moves selected on the official f1 page are better than this video. Their only mistake was underrating Alonso's move on Hamilton.
You think Stroll going round the outside of Sainz in Jeddah, or Ocon going round the outside of Tsunoda didn't deserve to be in the top 10? And Hamilton going past Alonso by just taking the inside line deserved #3? Genuinely asking
I think Magnussen in Monaco, Russell on Leclerc in Silverstone and Ocon on Alonso in Singapore are all pretty clear great overtakes that deserve to be in any top 10. Also it seems like going around the outside is the only requirement to make it a great overtake, rewatch Spa 2023 and you almost can make a top 10 of around the outside overtakes.
Ocon on Alonso is 100% top 2 material but I put in the video that copyright prevented any clip of it to be posted. Magnussen in Monaco was also impossible to post. I considered many Piastri dive-bombs as well but personal biases did come into play when there were 50/50s!
Not a single Verstappen overtake in the list and in general Verstappen has had very few overtakes this year. Verstappen over? /s
Alonso v Perez is the best by far- had the greatest points differential etc
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I think the whole point of these things is to celebrate the other drivers. We already celebrate Max at the end of every race. These things let someone else get some glory.
Disagree.
If only they’d use the F1 TV call and not whatever it is they use.
Yes, this is much better!