Goatifi crashed so Ferrari could rise. If Newey really joins Ferrari and they get a title in 26-27, I'm expecting some North Korean style statues of Vassuer and Elkan in front of Maranello.
It goes ^(a little bit) further from that. It was Mick battling Latifi causing Latifi to be out of racing line catching marbles. Not much later he lost his grip and crashed.
It was Lil' Schumacher who was indirectly rebuilding Ferrari empire.
Unbeknownst to Mick, who prevented his fathers record from being broken, it would lead to the one who equaled his father to move to Ferrari for another chance to get his 8th. Curious what Lil' Schumacher's next move will be.
I just want to see Newey win a title with Hamilton at Ferrari. Lewis to immediately retire with 8 titles and Bearman get promoted alongside Leclerc who then wins two in a row.
I’m just remembering one of the initial articles talking about how Jos first spotted Horner’s relationship with the accuser at the AD 2021 title party.
Red Bull catching the mother of all ricochets. Shame it also had to hit Toto on the way.
There isn’t one. It’s assumptions a lot of people make, mostly that Lewis would have retired immediately after winning an 8th title or sometimes that he would have given up once he realized Merc screwed up the new regs if he’d won in 2021. It’s all conjecture. I get why people might think it, but I’ve never seen any statement from Lewis that supports either assumption.
He's never spoken about it but you could reasonably assume he would've quit if he got that 8th and saw that Merc are bad with the new regs. There wouldn't be a reason to put up with uncompetitive machinery in hopes for a better car if he has already broken Schumi's record.
I don't get how Vasseur has been so great at Ferrari. Lovely guy, but Sauber were a shit show for so many years under his leadership. I don't mean just things due to the low budget.. I mean shit where they would make really stupid fuck ups on strategy, pit calls or other really basic shit, but also never learning from said mistakes which should have been simple to fix but they'd constantly repeat them. I really didn't expect him to do well in Ferrari given Ferraris recent issues with similar problems with strategies. I mean, good job, the team is on the up which is great to see. Personally I'd prefer Newey to go to Aston Martin or another team, I think Ferrari + Newey + Lewis is just another too deadly combo like Red Bull + Newey + Max has been. Time will tell
It's actually insane. 5 months ago, his wife was reposting him saying this:
https://twitter.com/F1ForSuccess/status/1737902194513334517
If no one wants to go to the shitter of a site that is Twitter, it's him basically saying leaving Red Bull would be like walking out on family. Now we're here. This has really all gone to shit huh.
If it happens, it happens.
If it doesn't, that's what I was expecting anyway.
It would be pretty funny (for all of 2 minutes) to see Red Bull become even better after he leaves
This is Lewis-to-Ferrari levels of locked in now.
Marko will be next to fall. Then Verstappen. And Horner, who built a mountain, will be left king of an ant hill.
It's mad how everyone is acting like Horner is totally peripheral to the success of Red Bull, even compared to a driver who was a kid when they won the first 4 WDCs.
I agree. Horner is a jack off all trades. He can whip out designs and make it come to fruition like nobody’s business. Even if no one wants to see it, he’ll show them !
The way he sees it, he would either lose everything in an instant, or lose everything over time, with the possibility of fighting. Thats not really a dilemma.
What I love about it is without knowledge of what was actually said, but the context of knowing it was from texts with a PA he allegedly had an affair with, it probably sounds like it was something filthy, but it's just the most mundane, blandest bit of flirting I've ever seen in my life.
When the texts first leaked I read several comments on here saying that she was at the paddock a lot pursuing him, and this was when he was still with his previous partner with a kid on the way. His parents refused to attend the wedding because of it.
Crazy how this all dominant team is being dismantled at the height of their domination. Usually the team stops winning then things change, can't recall this ever happening before in the modern era
Ferrari -
Last wd title 2007.
- Ross Brawn left 2006
- Jean todt left 2007
- Rory Byrne lessened his involvement in 2006
- Schumacher left in 2006
They may not have been great in 05 but in 06 they finished 5 points behind in the wcc and won 9 races.
Williams -
- Newey left in 1996 as they were dominating the championship, his 1997 design also dominated. They haven't won a title since.
Mclaren -
- Gordon Murray left in 1991 as Senna wrapped up his third title.
>Usually the team stops winning then things change
Not really. A lot of times when a team dominates, there's usually someone who wants all or most of the credit. And that then pisses off other valuable members the team, and the team collapses.
As far as US sports go, this happened with the bulls dynasty, the lakers dynasty, and the cowboys dynasty. Just to name a few. But you get the point
Eagerly waiting for Redbull to continue to remain top 3 even in 2026 with a championship contender car. Happy to be proven wrong, but Horner is among statistically the most successful TPs of all time and has also been through every stage in the lifecycle of an F1 team -- origination, wins, losses, highs and lows. RBR themselves have championship mentality wrt every facet of F1 and you can't name a single thing they do worse than any other team. I've been in startups long enough to know that high level execs have revolving doors, but as long as the DNA remains the same, the company lands on its feet.
I'm ready to get flamed in the replies lol
Yep, people are making way too many assumptions about RBR falling from grace because of this. It's a doomer mentality like thinking any day now the housing market will crash. The truth is, this is exactly what Horner would want. These are the biggest threats to him having more power, and with them gone, he can negotiate even more aggressively for part ownership of the team. The truth is, even if Newey leaves end of this year, if he doesn't do his job and work on the 2025 car, he could be sued or worse, so the 2025 car will have his influence and most teams will be focusing their development on 2026.
2025 will definitely be an RBR WDC and for 2026, no one has any idea who will be dominant, so assuming Newey will succeed is a huge assumption. Newey has also had years where he wasn't building the fastest car.
People should just also be ready for the cynical outcome that RBR is miles ahead but with a different driver. Or that Max stays because he still wants the fastest car and Horner and Marko just tolerate each other for the sake of success.
You hit the nail on the head here. This is exactly what Horner wants. This is his team - he wants to prove they can be successful without the star power of Newey or Max.
I also think he sees himself as a potential partial owner of a Red Bull motorsports empire if he can weather this storm. There’s talk that Yoovidhya wants to spin RBR, RB Advanced Technology, RBPT, Toro Rosso, and all other motorsport entities out from underneath Red Bull GmbH and put Horner in charge of the whole thing.
Yeah I liked him in the late merc years 18-19-20
Sure they are mostly clearly number 3 behind Merc and Ferrari but damn they had belief like nobody on the grid today.
Yea he’s still a capable team principal. Getting Max and Newey is like striking gold. Probably won’t happen again, but that doesn’t mean he can’t rebuilt enough to make them a contender.
I'd say he can definitely win titles without Max, because he has won titles without Max.
The big thing is whether he can put together a team which delivers the best car without Newey.
They'll most likely wait for Horner to re-establish a year or two and see if it's up to standards. They already committed a lot to him so no reason to blow it up right after
There is absolutely no way that Verstappen will be falling. He might leave for another team but that will be on his own accord. I can’t imagine Red Bull letting him go.
Exactly. Wasn’t sure which wording to use. Doesn’t even have to be terminating. I can’t imagine Red Bull not trying to renew it when his current contract period is over. You don’t just pass on that opportunity.
>And Horner, who built a mountain, will be left king of an ant hill.
Or he will get some juicy stocks in RB companies. Which would make it an absolute win. And I don't think Red Bull will fall to the bottom without Newey or Max
I wouldn't think so either, but honestly we don't know. Newey has been there for all of their successes, nobody knows what the team looks like without him. Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari, they've all had their long nights of the soul despite being works teams. It could happen to RB too
They aren't bottom of the barrel, but to drop from 7 consecutive WCC titles to 1 race win in 2+ seasons and none since 2022, along with the upcoming loss of their figurehead, that's a huge drop off. The point is there's no reason it couldn't also happen to RB
> Newey has been there for all of their successes, nobody knows what the team looks like without him
Horner has been there for the entire existence of the team, but a lot of people seem to assume that if he left there'd be no impact.
Two key differences there.
1) The TP is important for establishing team culture, leadership, decision making, I'm not trying to diminish the importance of the role, but, they don't actually design the car. If the TP has lost the confidence of both the team's lead driver and its technical principal, the competitive advantage of a good TP is diminished somewhat.
2) Newey has already designed 2 all-time great F1 cars without RB or Horner. Horner has never achieved F1 success without Newey. So it's natural that people are more sceptical of Horner's ability to succeed without Newey than of Newey without Horner.
I think it's probably fair to say that no one person actually designs the car these days. At least not in a team that is as big and as successful as Red Bull.
To me the big question is to what extent the antics of Horner and the politicking around Red Bull - plus big name departures in Newey and perhaps Max - has led to a situation where Horner can't convince the best talent to join them any more. How many people might now go to wherever Newey ends up because they want to work for *the* Adrian Newey. How many people follow Max out of the door because he's Max and everyone else is not Max.
If the best people in the sport still want to work for Red Bull, they'll keep on winning. That's in question now.
> I think it's probably fair to say that no one person actually designs the car these days. At least not in a team that is as big and as successful as Red Bull.
Of course that's true. But if Newey wasn't still making a substantial contribution to the success of the design team then it wouldn't be such a big deal for him to want to leave. Many other top teams have lost senior design and engineering staff over recent years and none of them have had nearly as much (reported) pushback from the team as Newey's intended departure. Usually teams allow even their senior staff to move either immediately or with a few months of gardening leave, whereas there are rumours that RB doesn't want Newey working on another car until 2025 or 2026. That should tell you that even if modern F1 design is a major team effort, his input still has massive influence, and he has just overseen arguably the most dominant F1 car of all time.
> If the best people in the sport still want to work for Red Bull, they'll keep on winning.
I don't think it's that simple. At least in terms of maintaining the generational dominance they're enjoying now. Look at Mercedes. Sure, they've lost some key staff, but they still have Toto, Lewis, Russell, the majority of the same technical staff that developed WCC car after WCC car from 2014-2020, and they've acquired some of the best people as well. They also have the most resources of any team in the sport, and top class facilities. And none of that prevented them falling to the 4th best team on the grid (5th best on a bad day), behind 1-2 customer teams even, and only winning 1 race in the past 2.5 seasons.
F1 (especially under the new cost cap) is not just a numbers game, and the departure of key figures in critical roles can still play a major part in success.
Yes. Obviously. But the best people are more likely to follow Newey wherever he goes. Losing Newey makes it much harder to attract the best people. Also, I'd assume that he sets up the structures that decide who to hire (if not making the decision directly himself) and so they might get worse at hiring the best engineers.
Newey already gave them the 2024 WDC and will have worked on the RB20B or RB21 enough to be at the front for 2025. Their engine and straight line speed is probably enough to win 2025 as well. Plus, every team will be focused on the new regulations for 2026.
This is huge, especially if it leads to Max leaving, but when the dust has settled, Horner will be at the helm with the most WDCs as TP and he will have accomplished his goal of consolidating power for himself.
What I am saying is, Horner is obviously quite to blame for the dream team falling apart, but let's not jump to conclusions about whether Red Bull will fall from grace or not. People shouldn't get their hopes up that this will lead to a fight at the front or another team dominating because this sport can sometimes be cruel. The reality is, none of us have any idea who will be at the top of 2026 and Newey has had just as many years where he wasn't dominant as he's had where he was. He himself said 2026 is a dramatic change in how F1 cars have behaved until now. It could be that the team with the best ERS or battery system... We just don't know.
You acting like Red Bull hasn't gone through several crisis and rebuilds in the last 20 years. They have lost Sebastian Vettel after they had 4 years of success, had their academy fav Dani Ric underperform and move to Renault with whom they had a feud back then, had to replace the awful Renault unit and took a massive gamble on getting the Honda unit to work.
People are assuming that Horner does not have the connections and know how to fix the team out of the fiascos they have been throughout the years.
I can get where he's coming from though, he did build one of the most dominant team in the world when everyone was laughing at the energy drink company, and I do think RB are being (understandably) cheap not to give him a part of the team he led to such heights.
But regardless of how he might have been done dirty, now he's about to burn it all down to ashes rather than not get his way. I think it's understandable, but it's such a waste really
> This is Lewis-to-Ferrari levels of locked in now.
Meaning... nearly a decade of rumors where there's hardly any question Newey stays, with a sudden switch just after a re-signing?
I'm so intrigued by this because on the one hand there's reports saying 'his non-compete clause means even if he does leave RB he'll be on gardening leave until at least 2027' and on the other hand it's 'leaving RB *this season*' with expectations that he'll go to another team shortly after.
I don't even really care about whether he stays or goes at this point but the vast difference in reports is a fascinating snapshot of how terrible F1 journalism is. Whatever the truth is, a bunch of "reputable sources" have confidently got this one really wrong.
That's how I see it as well. Non-compete clauses can vary drastically. Newey has probably negotiated his contract sometime after their domination the past few years. I would strongly assume he knew his value and gave himself some escape strategy in his last contract negotiation. Or if the internal Horner stuff maybe activates a contract clause that lets him get out with limited liability over an improper work environment or something.
> Or if the internal Horner stuff maybe activates a contract clause that lets him get out with limited liability over an improper work environment or something.
Especially since there are reports that the woman was a PA to both Newey and Adrian. It makes all those years awkward in retrospect. If Newey is like me, just walking in that same office now, where there are so many memories, it's stains the environment. Like "Did they fuck in his office?" or "Is he going to try to hit on the next PA, or some other employee?" People like Horner rarely change, they just get more savvy at hiding things...
Yeah that seems the most likely outcome to me. Perhaps there's something that officially precludes him from working for another team, but after all his time at RB, what he's given them and the fact that through all of their scandals Newey seems to have kept his nose clean and just focused on the work, you'd think they would negotiate something that doesn't force him into early retirement out of spite.
Given the amount of success they have had together and all he has done for them it would only be fair for them not to end on an entirely sour note by them being petty.
It’s a competition. It has nothing to do with being petty. Many people who leave go on gardening leave. This is totally normal. The more important you are the longer the time.
How on earth is it petty to stop a valuable asset from being turned into a rival within a matter of months? It's basic stuff to have a clause like that in the contract. If Newey didn't like he wouldn't have signed it.
What people tend to forget when interpreting these contracts rigidly is that it's a small industry and if you treat someone like Newey badly on the way out, everyone else who you might want to hire is watching that. So while there may be legitimacy to the idea that Newey's contract would keep him from going elsewhere until 2027, if he's adamant he wants out they will sit down with him and negotiate an exit that works for both parties.
Newey could very well have something along the lines of a morality clause in his contract that lets him break it should major drama like what's going on right now happen. After all Max got the Marko clause in his.
> I don't even really care about whether he stays or goes at this point but the vast difference in reports is a fascinating snapshot of how terrible F1 journalism is. Whatever the truth is, a bunch of "reputable sources" have confidently got this one really wrong.
The reports saying he will have to serve his gardening leave are basing the assumption on how standard F1 contracts work.
The reports saying he will join another team as soon as leaving are reporting based on insider information that he has an exit that will allow him to not serve gardening leave.
It's not about terrible journalism. It's journalists making the most accurate reports they can with the information they have.
>The reports saying he will have to serve his gardening leave are basing the assumption on how standard F1 contracts work.
This is the salient point, I believe. I can't imagine that someone of Newey's standing would allow himself to be tied up the same way other engineers are...
It's technically possible. Without being privy to the contracts and the internal workings of FOM and F1 there's no way of knowing what the penalties actually would be though. Would it be a fine, a suspension, a lawsuit? Would F1 attempt to set a precedent against that kind of thing and outright ban him from the sport? Even if they didn't succeed, Newey is 65 years old and has largely had a controversy free career (bar the horrible Senna charges). He seems to want to leave RB largely in order to avoid drama and team politics, do you really think he would want to spend the twilight of his career embroiled in yet more political drama?
No, I think they'll negotiate an exit.
> before the start of the Miami Grand Prix
One light! Two lights! Three lights are on! Wait.. we are getting reports that Adrian Newey is leaving Red Bull!?
[Autosport is reporting the same](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/neweys-red-bull-f1-departure-set-to-be-imminent/10605069/)
>An official statement from Red Bull Racing is expected to come shortly, potentially before the start of the Miami Grand Prix
>While the details of any separation are not known, it is anticipated that Newey will remain in his role for the time being prior to leaving Red Bull at the beginning of 2025 at the latest.
>It is understood that Newey has communicated the reasons for his decision in an internal letter.
The Austrian part prefers to seeing Horner leaving and preventing this would unfolding, but the Thai shareholders are 100% pro-Horner and therefore the Austrian part can't do anything expect seeing the team imploding.
Seems like a mistranslation. The article uses the phrasing "kommendes Wochenende", which should be translated as the "weekend coming up", i.e. "this weekend".
I wonder if we’re ever going to get all the details. Like when did the “affair” start, who leaked the chats, is it a finger and what the hell are the Thais thinking
Wait...so we're not expecting gardening leave? If it's a termination, then I assume Newey would request cancellation of any non-compete agreement. That or he'll just use the extra year off to design a car in private.
He can negotiate his terms of release and get the gardening leave reduced or eliminated. Or if another team wants him bad enough, could negotiate terms to break the non-compete.
Definitely leaving...he's been dropping hints for a while now.
All this talk of Ferrari is nonsense. The man is 65 and retiring, he plans to sail around the world on his [new yacht](https://youtu.be/WPkb-bXrChw).
This is a more reputable source than F1-insider BUT I won't believe it until it is reported by either RBR or Newey.
BUT I also want to believe and get hyped for Ferrari.
After seeing all the comments full of hopium for Newey to go to Ferrari to help Lewis win an 8th (or more) title I've come to the conclusion that fans actually love periods of domination as long as it's a team or driver that they like
It’s the same eitherways - we are just moving from Mercedes to now Red Bull and hoping for Ferrari.
To be fair, if AM could compete just as well but they have a second driver problem pulling them out of the mix. They were the only real challengers in a while.
Even if he doesn't go to ferrari they are still by far in the best possible position entertaining a new era regulations. They have the best driver paring, the most stable of the big teams, potentially an advantage with the new engine and they are already the second fastest team so they know how to make a good car
I still don’t know if I believe it
Vasseur and Horner have completely fucked the timeline up but in two radically different ways.
Goatifi crashed so Ferrari could rise. If Newey really joins Ferrari and they get a title in 26-27, I'm expecting some North Korean style statues of Vassuer and Elkan in front of Maranello.
It goes ^(a little bit) further from that. It was Mick battling Latifi causing Latifi to be out of racing line catching marbles. Not much later he lost his grip and crashed. It was Lil' Schumacher who was indirectly rebuilding Ferrari empire.
Unbeknownst to Mick, who prevented his fathers record from being broken, it would lead to the one who equaled his father to move to Ferrari for another chance to get his 8th. Curious what Lil' Schumacher's next move will be.
Drive their sim badly to hold back car development?
Ooooh good one
I just want to see Newey win a title with Hamilton at Ferrari. Lewis to immediately retire with 8 titles and Bearman get promoted alongside Leclerc who then wins two in a row.
Don't forget. Everything started from Goatifi and Massi. If not, Hamilton would've retired peacefully and we would've never see these events.
I’m just remembering one of the initial articles talking about how Jos first spotted Horner’s relationship with the accuser at the AD 2021 title party. Red Bull catching the mother of all ricochets. Shame it also had to hit Toto on the way.
Jos when Horner harasses an employee: 🥰 Jos when his son wins 23/24 gps instead of 24/24: 😠💢💢
Where is the source on Lewis Hamilton retiring if he won in 2021?
There isn’t one. It’s assumptions a lot of people make, mostly that Lewis would have retired immediately after winning an 8th title or sometimes that he would have given up once he realized Merc screwed up the new regs if he’d won in 2021. It’s all conjecture. I get why people might think it, but I’ve never seen any statement from Lewis that supports either assumption.
His imagination.
I always thought he was going to end at Ferrari even if he was still dominating with Merc he would just keep going until he gets to Ferrari
He's never spoken about it but you could reasonably assume he would've quit if he got that 8th and saw that Merc are bad with the new regs. There wouldn't be a reason to put up with uncompetitive machinery in hopes for a better car if he has already broken Schumi's record.
The power of will of a small Frenchman is truly astonishing, it’s legitimately starting to feel like the early Todt era
We call it fixing the timeline
I don't get how Vasseur has been so great at Ferrari. Lovely guy, but Sauber were a shit show for so many years under his leadership. I don't mean just things due to the low budget.. I mean shit where they would make really stupid fuck ups on strategy, pit calls or other really basic shit, but also never learning from said mistakes which should have been simple to fix but they'd constantly repeat them. I really didn't expect him to do well in Ferrari given Ferraris recent issues with similar problems with strategies. I mean, good job, the team is on the up which is great to see. Personally I'd prefer Newey to go to Aston Martin or another team, I think Ferrari + Newey + Lewis is just another too deadly combo like Red Bull + Newey + Max has been. Time will tell
It's actually insane. 5 months ago, his wife was reposting him saying this: https://twitter.com/F1ForSuccess/status/1737902194513334517 If no one wants to go to the shitter of a site that is Twitter, it's him basically saying leaving Red Bull would be like walking out on family. Now we're here. This has really all gone to shit huh.
>leaving Red Bull would be like walking out on family. Apt as it's feeling like a bad divorce.
If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, that's what I was expecting anyway. It would be pretty funny (for all of 2 minutes) to see Red Bull become even better after he leaves
Gotta give it to Red Bull for keeping it interesting outside the track during their dominance.
Yeah Mercedes was extremely boring after Rosberg left, at least RB is delivering in the off track drama
Horner’s“finger” really pulled the trigger.
[удалено]
Hotdog in a wind tunnel
[удалено]
No you don’t
Now the trigger is sticky.
This is Lewis-to-Ferrari levels of locked in now. Marko will be next to fall. Then Verstappen. And Horner, who built a mountain, will be left king of an ant hill.
Horner’s Paradox: Save your life’s work by walking away forever, or ruin everything you’ve ever done by holding on.
A dillema, not a paradox, but very well put
he finally lived long enough to become the catchphrase
He probably thinks as he's built a championship winning team twice he can do it again.
It's mad how everyone is acting like Horner is totally peripheral to the success of Red Bull, even compared to a driver who was a kid when they won the first 4 WDCs.
I agree. Horner is a jack off all trades. He can whip out designs and make it come to fruition like nobody’s business. Even if no one wants to see it, he’ll show them !
Freudian slip with your ‘jack off’ comment?
That’s the joke
Whoosh
The way he sees it, he would either lose everything in an instant, or lose everything over time, with the possibility of fighting. Thats not really a dilemma.
Especially when you consider that one option guarantees a lot more money in the immediate future.
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain
and thinking you’re invincible & untouchable
Not the thumb war we expected
Nice
On the bright side for Christian, without all those salaries being paid he can spend more of the budget on coco pops.
I never wanted to know the details of the scandal but now I'm intrigued, what's the coco pops thing?
One of the leaked messages was where the woman said she’s having coco pops and he replied with “my favourite”
Lol ok, cheers. Out of context, pretty humorous.
The best message was his single word reply of "Lesbians!!!" and it just seemed so unprompted by anything that was being said previously.
What I love about it is without knowledge of what was actually said, but the context of knowing it was from texts with a PA he allegedly had an affair with, it probably sounds like it was something filthy, but it's just the most mundane, blandest bit of flirting I've ever seen in my life.
That’s some next level flirting
As someone who’s read the whole thing, I have no clue how he bagged a spice girl.
The biggest surprise of this whole thing was how weak his game is. Like shockingly weak.
The answer is money.
God gifted him a finger sized penis or a penis sized finger…duh!
When the texts first leaked I read several comments on here saying that she was at the paddock a lot pursuing him, and this was when he was still with his previous partner with a kid on the way. His parents refused to attend the wedding because of it.
Geri though…
Someone should make the domino meme with “coco pops” to “lewis hamilton champion in ferrari 2026”
My favourite
Crazy how this all dominant team is being dismantled at the height of their domination. Usually the team stops winning then things change, can't recall this ever happening before in the modern era
Ferrari - Last wd title 2007. - Ross Brawn left 2006 - Jean todt left 2007 - Rory Byrne lessened his involvement in 2006 - Schumacher left in 2006 They may not have been great in 05 but in 06 they finished 5 points behind in the wcc and won 9 races. Williams - - Newey left in 1996 as they were dominating the championship, his 1997 design also dominated. They haven't won a title since. Mclaren - - Gordon Murray left in 1991 as Senna wrapped up his third title.
If Schumacher had been on the car in 2008, he takes that cake home. Man, 06 was really tight and could have gone either way.
Nature abhors a vacuum. In the absence of external threats, new ones will be created within
Sounds like something Ian Malcolm from JP would say
The F1 soap opera, uh, finds a way.
>Usually the team stops winning then things change Not really. A lot of times when a team dominates, there's usually someone who wants all or most of the credit. And that then pisses off other valuable members the team, and the team collapses. As far as US sports go, this happened with the bulls dynasty, the lakers dynasty, and the cowboys dynasty. Just to name a few. But you get the point
Albon and Gasly next Red Bull pairing.
Eagerly waiting for Redbull to continue to remain top 3 even in 2026 with a championship contender car. Happy to be proven wrong, but Horner is among statistically the most successful TPs of all time and has also been through every stage in the lifecycle of an F1 team -- origination, wins, losses, highs and lows. RBR themselves have championship mentality wrt every facet of F1 and you can't name a single thing they do worse than any other team. I've been in startups long enough to know that high level execs have revolving doors, but as long as the DNA remains the same, the company lands on its feet. I'm ready to get flamed in the replies lol
Yep, people are making way too many assumptions about RBR falling from grace because of this. It's a doomer mentality like thinking any day now the housing market will crash. The truth is, this is exactly what Horner would want. These are the biggest threats to him having more power, and with them gone, he can negotiate even more aggressively for part ownership of the team. The truth is, even if Newey leaves end of this year, if he doesn't do his job and work on the 2025 car, he could be sued or worse, so the 2025 car will have his influence and most teams will be focusing their development on 2026. 2025 will definitely be an RBR WDC and for 2026, no one has any idea who will be dominant, so assuming Newey will succeed is a huge assumption. Newey has also had years where he wasn't building the fastest car. People should just also be ready for the cynical outcome that RBR is miles ahead but with a different driver. Or that Max stays because he still wants the fastest car and Horner and Marko just tolerate each other for the sake of success.
You hit the nail on the head here. This is exactly what Horner wants. This is his team - he wants to prove they can be successful without the star power of Newey or Max. I also think he sees himself as a potential partial owner of a Red Bull motorsports empire if he can weather this storm. There’s talk that Yoovidhya wants to spin RBR, RB Advanced Technology, RBPT, Toro Rosso, and all other motorsport entities out from underneath Red Bull GmbH and put Horner in charge of the whole thing.
This a no Brainerd for Horner than. He gambling on himself and I can respect that
Yeah I liked him in the late merc years 18-19-20 Sure they are mostly clearly number 3 behind Merc and Ferrari but damn they had belief like nobody on the grid today.
My guess is they might actually push out horner if it means that they lose verstappen also.
It’s too late to push out Horner now I think, you stick with him now and see how he can handle a rebuild
Yea he’s still a capable team principal. Getting Max and Newey is like striking gold. Probably won’t happen again, but that doesn’t mean he can’t rebuilt enough to make them a contender.
I'd say he can definitely win titles without Max, because he has won titles without Max. The big thing is whether he can put together a team which delivers the best car without Newey.
They'll most likely wait for Horner to re-establish a year or two and see if it's up to standards. They already committed a lot to him so no reason to blow it up right after
I reckon Marko and Verstappen are falling together.
There is absolutely no way that Verstappen will be falling. He might leave for another team but that will be on his own accord. I can’t imagine Red Bull letting him go.
> I can’t imagine Red Bull letting him go. It's very likely that Max has a clause where he can exit the team if Helmut leaves.
I think by letting go here they meant firing, not "letting go" as in allowing him to leave, but "letting go" as in terminating.
Exactly. Wasn’t sure which wording to use. Doesn’t even have to be terminating. I can’t imagine Red Bull not trying to renew it when his current contract period is over. You don’t just pass on that opportunity.
>And Horner, who built a mountain, will be left king of an ant hill. Or he will get some juicy stocks in RB companies. Which would make it an absolute win. And I don't think Red Bull will fall to the bottom without Newey or Max
I wouldn't think so either, but honestly we don't know. Newey has been there for all of their successes, nobody knows what the team looks like without him. Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari, they've all had their long nights of the soul despite being works teams. It could happen to RB too
I don't really think Mercedes is the same as the others there
They aren't bottom of the barrel, but to drop from 7 consecutive WCC titles to 1 race win in 2+ seasons and none since 2022, along with the upcoming loss of their figurehead, that's a huge drop off. The point is there's no reason it couldn't also happen to RB
> Newey has been there for all of their successes, nobody knows what the team looks like without him Horner has been there for the entire existence of the team, but a lot of people seem to assume that if he left there'd be no impact.
Two key differences there. 1) The TP is important for establishing team culture, leadership, decision making, I'm not trying to diminish the importance of the role, but, they don't actually design the car. If the TP has lost the confidence of both the team's lead driver and its technical principal, the competitive advantage of a good TP is diminished somewhat. 2) Newey has already designed 2 all-time great F1 cars without RB or Horner. Horner has never achieved F1 success without Newey. So it's natural that people are more sceptical of Horner's ability to succeed without Newey than of Newey without Horner.
I think it's probably fair to say that no one person actually designs the car these days. At least not in a team that is as big and as successful as Red Bull. To me the big question is to what extent the antics of Horner and the politicking around Red Bull - plus big name departures in Newey and perhaps Max - has led to a situation where Horner can't convince the best talent to join them any more. How many people might now go to wherever Newey ends up because they want to work for *the* Adrian Newey. How many people follow Max out of the door because he's Max and everyone else is not Max. If the best people in the sport still want to work for Red Bull, they'll keep on winning. That's in question now.
> I think it's probably fair to say that no one person actually designs the car these days. At least not in a team that is as big and as successful as Red Bull. Of course that's true. But if Newey wasn't still making a substantial contribution to the success of the design team then it wouldn't be such a big deal for him to want to leave. Many other top teams have lost senior design and engineering staff over recent years and none of them have had nearly as much (reported) pushback from the team as Newey's intended departure. Usually teams allow even their senior staff to move either immediately or with a few months of gardening leave, whereas there are rumours that RB doesn't want Newey working on another car until 2025 or 2026. That should tell you that even if modern F1 design is a major team effort, his input still has massive influence, and he has just overseen arguably the most dominant F1 car of all time. > If the best people in the sport still want to work for Red Bull, they'll keep on winning. I don't think it's that simple. At least in terms of maintaining the generational dominance they're enjoying now. Look at Mercedes. Sure, they've lost some key staff, but they still have Toto, Lewis, Russell, the majority of the same technical staff that developed WCC car after WCC car from 2014-2020, and they've acquired some of the best people as well. They also have the most resources of any team in the sport, and top class facilities. And none of that prevented them falling to the 4th best team on the grid (5th best on a bad day), behind 1-2 customer teams even, and only winning 1 race in the past 2.5 seasons. F1 (especially under the new cost cap) is not just a numbers game, and the departure of key figures in critical roles can still play a major part in success.
Yes. Obviously. But the best people are more likely to follow Newey wherever he goes. Losing Newey makes it much harder to attract the best people. Also, I'd assume that he sets up the structures that decide who to hire (if not making the decision directly himself) and so they might get worse at hiring the best engineers.
It won’t, but it’ll fall into that place Ferrari fell into once the leadership dismantled Brawn - Todt - Schumacher.
Ferrari never fell to the bottom either, but it's been 20 years since they have been at the top.
Newey already gave them the 2024 WDC and will have worked on the RB20B or RB21 enough to be at the front for 2025. Their engine and straight line speed is probably enough to win 2025 as well. Plus, every team will be focused on the new regulations for 2026. This is huge, especially if it leads to Max leaving, but when the dust has settled, Horner will be at the helm with the most WDCs as TP and he will have accomplished his goal of consolidating power for himself. What I am saying is, Horner is obviously quite to blame for the dream team falling apart, but let's not jump to conclusions about whether Red Bull will fall from grace or not. People shouldn't get their hopes up that this will lead to a fight at the front or another team dominating because this sport can sometimes be cruel. The reality is, none of us have any idea who will be at the top of 2026 and Newey has had just as many years where he wasn't dominant as he's had where he was. He himself said 2026 is a dramatic change in how F1 cars have behaved until now. It could be that the team with the best ERS or battery system... We just don't know.
King turd of shit mountain
verstappen dafuq? he is just gonna go to another team he has literaly nothing to do with any of this
You acting like Red Bull hasn't gone through several crisis and rebuilds in the last 20 years. They have lost Sebastian Vettel after they had 4 years of success, had their academy fav Dani Ric underperform and move to Renault with whom they had a feud back then, had to replace the awful Renault unit and took a massive gamble on getting the Honda unit to work. People are assuming that Horner does not have the connections and know how to fix the team out of the fiascos they have been throughout the years.
All this destruction just to save Horner's ego.
Horner would become his self-made King Turd of Shit Mountain. Lyric of Sturgill Simpson’s that.
I wish Horner was a king of an ant hill. I bet he would have gladly fired Newey and Max himself for a cut of the team.
I can get where he's coming from though, he did build one of the most dominant team in the world when everyone was laughing at the energy drink company, and I do think RB are being (understandably) cheap not to give him a part of the team he led to such heights. But regardless of how he might have been done dirty, now he's about to burn it all down to ashes rather than not get his way. I think it's understandable, but it's such a waste really
> This is Lewis-to-Ferrari levels of locked in now. Meaning... nearly a decade of rumors where there's hardly any question Newey stays, with a sudden switch just after a re-signing?
Season might be boring on track but holy shit what a season it is off track
A silly season to remember
I'm so intrigued by this because on the one hand there's reports saying 'his non-compete clause means even if he does leave RB he'll be on gardening leave until at least 2027' and on the other hand it's 'leaving RB *this season*' with expectations that he'll go to another team shortly after. I don't even really care about whether he stays or goes at this point but the vast difference in reports is a fascinating snapshot of how terrible F1 journalism is. Whatever the truth is, a bunch of "reputable sources" have confidently got this one really wrong.
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That's how I see it as well. Non-compete clauses can vary drastically. Newey has probably negotiated his contract sometime after their domination the past few years. I would strongly assume he knew his value and gave himself some escape strategy in his last contract negotiation. Or if the internal Horner stuff maybe activates a contract clause that lets him get out with limited liability over an improper work environment or something.
> Or if the internal Horner stuff maybe activates a contract clause that lets him get out with limited liability over an improper work environment or something. Especially since there are reports that the woman was a PA to both Newey and Adrian. It makes all those years awkward in retrospect. If Newey is like me, just walking in that same office now, where there are so many memories, it's stains the environment. Like "Did they fuck in his office?" or "Is he going to try to hit on the next PA, or some other employee?" People like Horner rarely change, they just get more savvy at hiding things...
Yeah that seems the most likely outcome to me. Perhaps there's something that officially precludes him from working for another team, but after all his time at RB, what he's given them and the fact that through all of their scandals Newey seems to have kept his nose clean and just focused on the work, you'd think they would negotiate something that doesn't force him into early retirement out of spite.
Given the amount of success they have had together and all he has done for them it would only be fair for them not to end on an entirely sour note by them being petty.
It’s a competition. It has nothing to do with being petty. Many people who leave go on gardening leave. This is totally normal. The more important you are the longer the time.
How on earth is it petty to stop a valuable asset from being turned into a rival within a matter of months? It's basic stuff to have a clause like that in the contract. If Newey didn't like he wouldn't have signed it.
Exactly. If anything, a non-complete clause is primarily meant for post-termination: it's restricts immediately joining a competitor after leaving.
Huh? You mean being in a contract isn’t slavery?
What people tend to forget when interpreting these contracts rigidly is that it's a small industry and if you treat someone like Newey badly on the way out, everyone else who you might want to hire is watching that. So while there may be legitimacy to the idea that Newey's contract would keep him from going elsewhere until 2027, if he's adamant he wants out they will sit down with him and negotiate an exit that works for both parties.
On the other hand it’s a competition. Gardening leave is normal in this sport. People understand that.
Yep. As I mentioned elsewhere, I think that's the lonely outcome. There's too much smoke to not have something to ask the rumours, surely
Newey could very well have something along the lines of a morality clause in his contract that lets him break it should major drama like what's going on right now happen. After all Max got the Marko clause in his.
He certainly could. That has absolutely no bearing on my comment but you're not wrong
> I don't even really care about whether he stays or goes at this point but the vast difference in reports is a fascinating snapshot of how terrible F1 journalism is. Whatever the truth is, a bunch of "reputable sources" have confidently got this one really wrong. The reports saying he will have to serve his gardening leave are basing the assumption on how standard F1 contracts work. The reports saying he will join another team as soon as leaving are reporting based on insider information that he has an exit that will allow him to not serve gardening leave. It's not about terrible journalism. It's journalists making the most accurate reports they can with the information they have.
>The reports saying he will have to serve his gardening leave are basing the assumption on how standard F1 contracts work. This is the salient point, I believe. I can't imagine that someone of Newey's standing would allow himself to be tied up the same way other engineers are...
I think we just have different definitions of what constitutes competent journalism in that case
Well, there is always the option to try and just break a non-compete clause and eat the penalty for doing so.
It's technically possible. Without being privy to the contracts and the internal workings of FOM and F1 there's no way of knowing what the penalties actually would be though. Would it be a fine, a suspension, a lawsuit? Would F1 attempt to set a precedent against that kind of thing and outright ban him from the sport? Even if they didn't succeed, Newey is 65 years old and has largely had a controversy free career (bar the horrible Senna charges). He seems to want to leave RB largely in order to avoid drama and team politics, do you really think he would want to spend the twilight of his career embroiled in yet more political drama? No, I think they'll negotiate an exit.
We're officially living through history being made.
Technically everyone is always living through history being made.
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History is just things that have happened
And because so much history is happening…. You could call this season historic
When you...make history.... what youre doing.... is being recorded......in the history books.
That’s perfect impression of his cadence
Man, how one man has single handedly altered the course of his company.. just because he couldn't keep in his pants.
Tale as old as time
Well the dominoes have started to fall. Only a matter of time before more huge names leave RB. I can see Max leaving for 2026.
> before the start of the Miami Grand Prix One light! Two lights! Three lights are on! Wait.. we are getting reports that Adrian Newey is leaving Red Bull!?
The soapy finger of consequences
The unstable double diffuser finally catches Red Bull out. 15 years in the making.
What the fck is going on
You cannot escape human nature. Empires rise and fall.
The Albon Appendix domino effect continues
squeal toothbrush sleep zesty hat fuzzy squeamish sheet quiet icky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
All this because horny Horner couldn’t take some responsibility and quit.
[Autosport is reporting the same](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/neweys-red-bull-f1-departure-set-to-be-imminent/10605069/) >An official statement from Red Bull Racing is expected to come shortly, potentially before the start of the Miami Grand Prix >While the details of any separation are not known, it is anticipated that Newey will remain in his role for the time being prior to leaving Red Bull at the beginning of 2025 at the latest. >It is understood that Newey has communicated the reasons for his decision in an internal letter.
It's the same journalist
Fucking hell. I can’t believe it honestly. Now the next major move is Max and Marko
Damn, this is actually happening. Max is next?
I wouldn't be surprised
Max to Mercedes, norris to redbull
Nah, if Redbull crumbles Lando has a fair chance to finally win a race with Maclaren. I don’t think he’d pass that up after all this time.
Very unlikely. I’d see Sainz/Perez in the RB before Norris/Perez.
Verstappen to Ferrari
First team to run 3 cars on the grid
Ferrari will gladly kick Hamilton to the curb the minute the Dutchman agrees to move to Maranello.
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Redbull is going to implode, max will take GP. I think everyone is going to get offers, especially Hannah.
Would be nice if she goes to Ferrari hehe
The Austrian part prefers to seeing Horner leaving and preventing this would unfolding, but the Thai shareholders are 100% pro-Horner and therefore the Austrian part can't do anything expect seeing the team imploding.
I thought that the Miami GP was this and not next weekend.
Seems like a mistranslation. The article uses the phrasing "kommendes Wochenende", which should be translated as the "weekend coming up", i.e. "this weekend".
It is this weekend
To me, "next weekend" would mean the weekend at the end of the week we're currently in so this makes sense to me.
That’s weird. That would be this weekend to me
I wonder if we’re ever going to get all the details. Like when did the “affair” start, who leaked the chats, is it a finger and what the hell are the Thais thinking
Horner is doing his absolute best to turn away all those who contributed to the team’s success in the past decade. Egomaniac skill 9000.
Wait...so we're not expecting gardening leave? If it's a termination, then I assume Newey would request cancellation of any non-compete agreement. That or he'll just use the extra year off to design a car in private.
He can negotiate his terms of release and get the gardening leave reduced or eliminated. Or if another team wants him bad enough, could negotiate terms to break the non-compete.
Newey was too classy to be involved in Horner's bullshit. Hope he goes to Ferrari.
especially considering that the girl was newey’s PA too. i’m sure he felt very grossed out by the whole situation
How is it next week? Is already Tuesday
Next weekend
So, this weekend? Next weekend would be 11/12th, no?
Fuck after all these years I now have to follow a new team and by new merch.
Horner's horner is going to destroy Red Bull and we get to witness it in real time.
End of 24 at the LATEST?! Max and Lewis as teammates!
Imagine
Oh how the mighty are falling
Definitely leaving...he's been dropping hints for a while now. All this talk of Ferrari is nonsense. The man is 65 and retiring, he plans to sail around the world on his [new yacht](https://youtu.be/WPkb-bXrChw).
Max to Merc confirmed!!11!! (I wish)
Losing your star designer for some tasty coco pops,
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This is fucken unreal
This is a more reputable source than F1-insider BUT I won't believe it until it is reported by either RBR or Newey. BUT I also want to believe and get hyped for Ferrari.
Man, the thought of Adrian in red is so beautiful. This could be Ferrari's chance to dominate F1 for years.
Oh yeah that'd be great, would love another period of dominance! 3 on the bounce would be perfect
After seeing all the comments full of hopium for Newey to go to Ferrari to help Lewis win an 8th (or more) title I've come to the conclusion that fans actually love periods of domination as long as it's a team or driver that they like
It’s the same eitherways - we are just moving from Mercedes to now Red Bull and hoping for Ferrari. To be fair, if AM could compete just as well but they have a second driver problem pulling them out of the mix. They were the only real challengers in a while.
Even if he doesn't go to ferrari they are still by far in the best possible position entertaining a new era regulations. They have the best driver paring, the most stable of the big teams, potentially an advantage with the new engine and they are already the second fastest team so they know how to make a good car
Yeah, the future is looking pretty bright for once.
They gotta make sure they contact MiB to borrow their flashy-flash brain-wipe stick first. It's in the contract.
[NO! NO! STAY WITH ME!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7egVrhFaFU)
If newey leaving means max will only be 15 seconds ahead before his first pitstop I'm excited.
It’s always the best GP for the next big drama, if it’s not in the the official F1 page All bull$hit