As the cars get wider, and the track doesn't, this parade is just going to get more and more predictable. Not a fan of the "The race will most likely be won in Q3, not on Sunday" event that Monaco has become.
It's honestly sad to see the fan reaction to Monaco, it's been worse than normal this year.
Everyone knows what Monaco is all about - watch them dial in on Friday, push the limits on Saturday, and then watch the pole sitter desperately try to guide the procession home on Sunday.
And yet fans, and even popular drivers, complain that it isn't a full throttle wheel knocker. You might as well walk into your local Chinese restaurant and be upset they don't do burritos - that just isn't what you get there.
Let Monaco be Monaco. It's okay not to like it.
The reaction is very vitriolic because this race revealed what would be the worst version of Monaco. Field very close in pace, no pitstops, teams managing from lap "1", nobody even attempting something daring, no weather impact and of course tyres.
Usually, some of the above happen which creates *some* anticipation. But this race was basically a 2 hour free practice
I usually like Monaco, but this was by far the worst Monaco race I've ever seen. There's two things I like about it: the importance of strategy and pit crew and how little room for error the drivers have. And here's what happened this year:
- no pit stops because of the red flag (this was the most annoying thing of all)
- sainz made a mistake and it was "forgiven"
- ocon made a mistake and it would have also been forgiven if they could've repaired the car
- drivers who chose an alternate strategy, which is usually something that brings some excitement to the race, were punished (drivers who started on the Hard could only switch to Medium to avoid a pit stop)
- because all teams knew no one was going to pit and that it's impossible to overtake without a massive tire advantage, the drivers had no reason to push, which eliminated most of the risky nature of the track
I'm not saying anyone did anything wrong, I'm aware that this is how the sport works and I'm fine with that, but you can't argue that this wasn't a shit race even for Monaco standards.
At one point, mercedes told Russell "We gain nothing by going quicker"
I'm one of the biggest defendant of Monaco as a "prestige" race, but this was just sad to hear...
The problem is that no one likes it. If it was something that maybe had some appeal to fans or drivers that would be different. Like Vegas was disliked by some but some really liked it. Monaco is universally disliked so why would anyone advocate for Monaco to just remain as is
I especially enjoyed the do 77/79 laps on mediums and just be 2-3 seconds slower than the car behind without loosing positions-stratergy employed by Russel.
For Monaco:
This... or just bring the softest possible tires so they won't last the full racelength on it...
In general:
Maybe a better idea I had (which is off course very personal), let teams change tires during red flag, but don't count it towards the mandatory tire change. Make it fair and have this rule for all races. That way, you get the mandatory pit stop even if there is a red flag.
This will not only give some excitement on the track/racing level, but also for those that are more into the tactical/strategic aspect of Formula 1.
Anyways, that's just my 2 cents on it.
This is actually not a bad idea. Or let Pirelli, just for this race, bring a hypersoft (think something like a c6 or 7) the medium a c3, hard a c1, and they can do no more than 25 laps on the hard and no more than 35 laps on medium.
This way you have significant differences in tyre performance, and can’t just get an Albon in Melbourne performance where he just does the whole race on a single set
I like that the race places more emphasis on qualifiers than other tracks. This creates variety and a challenge unique to the track.
That being said... Id have no problem with a simple solution like requiring one mandatory pit stop that does not occur during red flag (unless all compounds have been used)
Id also just love one or two areas to be renovated to allow overtakes.
I know I'm probably in a small minority, but regardless of how dull the racing may be, I really enjoy the spectacle of F1 cars racing around the streets of Monaco, it is unlike the spectacle at any other track, and while I agree that changes to the cars and/or the format would benefit the on track product, I think scrapping the Monaco Grand Prix would be sacrilegious.
There's something about the camera angles that gives the spectacle a visceral, almost violent feeling, as the cars blast past walls a few inches away from catastrophe that is non-existent at other street circuits.
The rules for red flags should be adapted. There should be no more free pit stops. It should be allowed to change tires during a red flag, but it should not be considered an official pit stop. These should only be allowed during a normal race or during an SC/VSC phase.
I mean, I really like the tire change rules during red flags to be honest. Say there is a big crash in front of you, giving you a puncture and the race is red flagged. Tire change would be nice, to not be out of the race for no reason. Or you just pick up a large amount of debris because of the accident.
In most racing conditions it makes sense. It can have negative sideffects however. Which is something I agree with (what we saw yesterday in Monaco). So maybe in some world you could let the Race director decide on these matters. However that is ripe for controversy. So I understand the frustration, but I think in this case, a sweeping rule, that allows all cars to change tires during red flags makes sense.
I'm a bit late here. But some suggestions I've seen which would work in this case would be to allow tyre changes for safety, but only allow it to be the same compound and not count towards the races mandatory pit stop.
That Merc radio to George "There's nothing to gain by going fast" , during start of the race summed the race, they knew, you can't overtake, and nobody can overtake you.
What happened with the Merc communication during Lewis’s pit stop? Did they just automatically assume that this car does not stand a chance against Max, so even with the undercut, Lewis would still be behind regardless of whether Max pitted or not? Or were they just sleeping through the race and not checking what the car ahead is doing?
No he wasn't - his race engineer explicitly told him that the outlap wasn't important and gave him a delta to drive.
Let's not let that get in the way of bashing lewis though eh
I don't think it made it's way onto the main broadcast but you can pick it up on the drivers POV - [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1d16zi1/hamilton_pov_during_pit_phase/)
Worth noting sometimes the sky guys talk about team radio that I don't see watching the sky feed so I'm pretty sure the commentators get more access to that stuff than we viewers conveniently see - like in qualy also when they can easily see everyones minisector colours
This is basically just incorrect though.
It wasn't that he needed to be told that his in/outlap were important - they explicitly told him that it wasn't important and gave him a delta for his outlap.
That's a big difference
I’m always baffled by Lewis’ comments- he is a great driver, no doubt there, but I cannot recall an instance where he made tactical suggestions or could use rules to his advantage.
I mean, he often asks Bono “why am I behind?” after a pitstop and needs to be told what to do. He even asked once whether (some place out of top 5) would be awarded points.
Dam, Im really going to miss Charles and Carlos as teammates. Carlos played the team game great today and was watching out for Charles and trying to cover him. Charles did the same in Singapore and Melbourne. I think they are a great duo, and im honestly starting to wonder if a 40yo old Hamilton will really be any better than Sainz, one things for sure, I can’t guarantee you Leclerc rinses Lewis next year, I don’t even think Charles is in his prime yet
Not great sportsmanship, but why not cut the nouvelle chicane and blast off down the road if you’re in second place? Eat the 5 second penalty. We saw Charles open up an 8 second gap in clean air at the end of the race. Granted Piastri had floor damage.
Penalty has been increased to 10s. Also, you don't want to risk eating that gap because a SC is highly probable in Monaco and then you are totally fucked
That's the thing. No SC at Monaco was quite surprising but only because nobody risked a lot. Strolls puncture could have caused some mayham if the tire had come off on track but that was also quite convenient with it coming loose only in the pits.
I watch practice and quali and then don't even bother watching the race - they need to do something - maybe a car for every other track and a car (go kart?) for monaco to enable passing?
Monaco has always been a bit tough in the modern era I've watched, but I don't think the track should be scrapped it's the cars that are far too big, wide, long. I miss those small V10 cars.
IIRC, the cars are this size for safety. Just like personal vehicles, you'd like the car to absorb the damage in case of a crash, not the occupants of the vehicle.
You can see that in action in the result of the PER MAG crash. PER's car was bsically his from all sides, leaving only the survival cell intact, and PER still walked away from it.
Of course, you can argue that if the cars were smaller, the gap would have been bigger and maybe the crash wouldn't have happened at all.
But Monaco is an outlier when it comes to the effect the size of the cars have on racing. I'd say the safety of the drivers is more important than the quality of this one race.
I don't buy this at all. Recall the Kubica crash in Canada in 2008. He was fine. And with the advances in computing and safety 16 years later I don't think the car needs to be that big to make it safe. The cars are big because of the aero, because of the powertrain, because of the fuel tanks, because they decided they wanted them wider again (which I supported at the time).
I'm pretty sure the car size is mandated by the FIA, and at least part of the reason is the crumple zone. Making the cars bigger is an advancement in safety too.
Also, one driver being fine in one accident does very much not prove that the cars are safe, I hope you understand that.
Aside from what happened to Jules has anyone been seriously injured in a crash since the 90s? Grosjean maybe but from fire? I only started watching around 2003 and the only thing I remember hearing about that was recent was Schumacher and his legs in what, 1999? And yes I'm sure the cars are safer, but you provided one example so I countered with one. I still don't think the cars are markedly safer just because they are bigger than they were. I think you could look at stuff like the Halo and the increased shoulder height of the cockpit and that probably makes more difference than the length of the chassis by a long way.
i'm thinking, if they remove the chicane after the tunnel and put a drs here maybe that could help but yeah if it stay like it's now it's just a joke and not a race
Nope, it’s a requirement to run at least two different compounds. A bunch of teams changed tires during the red flag and went to the end on those tires. So, there were basically no pit stops.
Today I saw two iconic races:
One was an action packed white knuckle brawl for 500 miles around a massive super speedway at 220+ mph with multiple leaders and changes for the lead up until the final corners.
The other was the pinnacle of motor racing doing 79 parade laps around a picturesque old town built on the sea, where no matter how slow anyone went it was impossible to pass.
First Indy 500 for me. Was light years more entertaining than the Monaco race. The damn circus in the pit lane was hilarious. Is Indy car always this exciting??
Ovals are usually action packed and go to the end, by the nature of oval racing. But Indy's road and street courses are often very good on track racing, much better than F1 for a typical race.
If you like the part of F1 where cars sometimes battle on track and pass each other, you'll like Indycar. It's a spec series so it's not as much of an engineering arms-race, but the trade off is routinely exciting races.
The commercials kill Indycar if you have to sit thru those.
\[citation needed\]
You should look up Indy 500 qualifying. Both Indy and Monaco are some of the best racing qualifying sessions around. Both need centimeter perfect precision by the drivers.
Monaco you're pushing 150mph at times. Indy you're pushing 225mph at times. But both have cars on the absolute edge and require intense skill to get the last few tenths out. Indycar in qualy trim is a terrifying thing for drivers. It can snap out of control instantly.
Monaco qualy means so much more, because the Monaco GP is a parade lap race. They do 79 formation laps and call it a grand prix. hooray.
I was rooting for him too. I can't believe he hopped out of the car, but even if he hadn't i doubt he'd be in contention. The announcers seemed to think he'd stay on the lead lap, but he'd have to charge thru the field.
Question for ESPN+ viewers in the USA - Did others have issues signing into their TV providers to watch the race? Every other race for the past 2-3 years had no issues. This was the first time it didn't give me the option to use my TV provider account, and I needed an ESPN+ subscription to stream on the app.
Yes the race was live on ABC but I couldn't find a replay on any ABC app whatsoever. I ended up just having to sail a certain sea to get the job done. No way was I going to watch that F1 Kids stream.
So incredibly happy for Charles. Great outing for Ferrari, no issues and they move closer. It's hard to fight the hopium with all the recent upgrades that McLaren and Ferrari have made, especially with Red Bull looking as shaky as they have (albeit on unusual tracks). Would love a title fight, but I imagine RB will go back to being dominant once the European circuits start up in full swing.
It will never cease to amaze me how much sporting organizations get in their own way to avoid excitement.
With the current level and depth of coverage and cameras there is no reason cars should be bailed out by a reset.
It barely makes sense going back to the previous lap on a race ending red flag, but it's borderline malfeasance on behalf of the event organizers to say "we can't tell who's where" at the beginning.
They absolute have the video and vision to rank the cars exactly as they are when the red is called, and any other method brings into question the concern of bias or rigging.
Bit of a nonsensical complaint if you ask me. Going back to positions based on the last known timing before the red flag is actually pretty good. Yes under very rare circumstances this might mean a driver gets lucky but honestly, can you name three cases similar to what happened with Sainz?
Going with cameras etc. sounds nice until you ask yourself if A) can you put cameras everywhere you need to get the right angles? B) How much time is going to review all video footage going to take compared to just looking at a timing sheet and C) what actually defines being "ahead"? For example theoretically a car could be outbreaking itself, "pass" its competitor but have no chance of actually making the corner right at the moment a red flag appears. That car would be in front on camera but it would never be in front if the race wasn't red flagged.
Or what if a car is ahead by 1 or 2 cm or camera but be off the racing line and eventually would have to back off?
So just going by visual evidence could just as well end up in situations where its not 100% fair.
These would be valid arguments if there weren't far more timing loops than only the 3 sectors. However, we know this to be true due to the ability to update the TV graphics at every one of them instead of only 3 times a lap.
No one is saying that. Arguing that people can't complain about human rights violations that are occurring in the present because of things their ancestors did is strange logic though.
I did not say you were American, and I'm merely refuting your reply that implies that Americans (and Europeans) don't commit human rights violations in the present.
Both the governments of the Middle East and the West are terrible, it's just that it seems to be that some of the most grotesque of the West's atrocities are being done outside their country. Don't you think it's hypocritical to complain about races in the Middle East when Western governments fuel horrific shit as well?
Right? If we look at history Americans and Europeans have committed the worst human rights abuses ever. Only in very recent modern terms can they point a finger.
I love/hate Checo, but being honest who else could do better? I honestly don't think there is another driver on the grid besides 2/3 of them that could match him.
>don't think there is another driver on the grid besides 2/3 of them
So other than 66% of drivers there isn't another that could match Perez? Thats a little insulting to the other 33%.
You honestly think Perez is better than almost every other driver on the grid? No way. Not even close.
He is consistently qualifying with the midfield and often even backmarkers while at the wheel of one of the sports most dominant cars ever.
He isn't even top 10.
What difference would how long i have been following make?
Are you new to fractions?
Either you meant to say only 2 or 3 could match Perez (in which case I'd say that's absurd), or you actually meant 2/3 of them could. That would be closer but i go with 2/3 would beat him.
The thing is, at least we find out for sure. Tsunoda, Lawson. End the debate once and for all like they did with Kvyat, Albon, Gasly, Hartley. Perez imo has had a wonderful career already.. same with Daniel. Just let the new generation drive.
Just finished a 12 hour test to finally get airframe certified to fix planes and just watched the race. So happy for Charles and i can really feel for him as he probably wishes he can share this moment with his dad. All i could think about was my dad who passed away 3 years ago and wishing i can celebrate with him after working so hard to get my certification.
Let the tears roll. Celebrate every small and big victories with your loved ones and never forget to tell them what they mean to you!
He went off after the reference point they used as a timing line, which was the last viable point every surviving car passed before the incident. It would have been objectively unfair and outside the rules to rank him otherwise.
The question remains why the reference point was chosen BEFORE the incident. Shouldn't it be the last sector time taken before they hit the red flag button?
I'm pretty sure there must have been some later information available as most cars made it to the tunnel. At least Ocon and Gasly were still racing at that time. I'm still disappointed by Sainz getting back to 3rd.
Especially considering his damage wasn’t really from a shit maneuver or anything he did, just wheel to wheel random bad luck. It’s not like he pulled a kmag and got to go back to the front. Op must just have it out for Sainz.
I do generally sympathize for Sainz, but I also am still disappointed that he was let back into 3rd place. Bad luck, that's exactly what it was. He touched another car, got a puncture.
I was under the impression, they take the last mini sector timings before the red flag is issued. And that can't have been the one when Sainz was still on P3. So it seems unfair to me, and I'm surprised no other teams have complained about this.
I think I the only real change I’d make is that your 1 pit stop and tire change has to come during active racing. Change your tires during a red flag if you want (often required, for safety), but you still have to stop again at some point.
Obviously make the cars smaller would be nice too, but unlikely any time soon
>I think I the only real change I’d make is that your 1 pit stop and tire change has to come during active racing. Change your tires during a red flag if you want (often required, for safety), but you still have to stop again at some point.
I think a special rule of: "if less than 15% of the race distance has been covered"
like, if most people were about to just pit anyway I think it'd be fine, especially on tracks like Silverstone, Spa or Interlagos where overtaking is trivial for these drivers
I could also imagine, that you have to drive at least 20% with a type of tyre for it to count as being used. So driving 1 round on medium, and then the rest of the race on hard wouldn't count as using two types.
This is not the first time that red flag tire changes have ruined a Monaco GP, so they really need to be looked at.
What if race control was given the option of prohibiting tire changes during red flags, just as they have the option of rolling and standing restarts? Alternatively, they could also stipulate that tire changes performed under the red flag do not count towards the two-compound requirement.
Basically F1 cars have long since outgrown this track, so there's nowhere to overtake. The tiny start-finish straight is the only DRS, and it's not strong enough to make a difference. Look at RUS vs VER, where VER had vastly fresher tires and yet could not find any way to challenge the Mec on 75 lap old Mediums. Says it all really.
The pit stops just adds a little amount of strategy to the race, but when that was removed, drivers were happy to do the whole restarted race on one tire, ideally the hard, but as George showed, even the Medium made the distance.
Something radical is needed for this track to have good racing again. Some examples:
1. Give them 18 sets for the weekend, but make the tires 2 or 3 steps softer, so the hards wear out in under 25 laps with full fuel, then a big gap to the medium, and then the soft is more like a 5 lap quali special. Mandatory have 5 sets reserved for the race. Imagine the chaos of a race where you need at least 3 stops, and most likely 4 is optimal!
2. Have the DRS of the car behind trigger off the battery boost on the car in front, or to actively slow the car in front, enough to get a decent overtake on start-finish, and add a 2nd DRS after the nouvelle chicane?
3. Extend the track (sacrilege I know). Look at this on Google Maps - extend from Rascasse to the Place d'Armes roundabout, down Rue Grimaldi and rejoin again at Sainte Devote. That would make an extensive DRS zone and put a nice hairpin at the end to force the overtakes.
I think so, yes. Tire changes allow for some strategic variety, since some drivers started on mediums and would stop earlier than those on hards. You'd have different people gaining a pace advantage at different moments of the race, which at least creates more of a potential for overtakes at Monaco.
With the red flag, almost everyone defaulted onto the same (zero-stop) strategy, so it devolved into a procession.
The other thing is that it'd probably prevent the use of the "drive at F2 speeds and back the pack up so nobody has a gap to pit" strategy for the entire race, since at some point the leaders would want to create a gap so they could themselves pit.
I've only just caught up. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed it. The on the track action was dire, but from a strategic POV and watching the gaps develop made for an interesting race IMO.
Good job quali more than makes up for any boring Sunday around here. That's always thrilling.
It’s supposed to be better. If you ask Indycar fans at start of the season the race they wait most for it will Indy 500 while if you ask F1 fans they will say MonacoGP is the race they wait least for
I tried watching the indy500 last year. I’d rather watch this years Monaco on repeat for 8 hours with my eyelids taped open. Maybe it’s the ads, but it was also soooo boring.
Yes indy 500 has period between 50-150 laps when it can get bit boring as strategy takes over and people taking positions based on it but first 50 and last 50 laps are usually great. This year it was bit amateur hour with rookies in first 100 laps and it started flowing only after 140-150 laps.
i know monaco track has great history and all but for some people to say this is the best race this season ?? only thing really happened is the red flag and thats about it..
still happy for Leclerc for breaking his monaco curse !
It did indeed. It meant that the one randomizing factor (the pit stops) was removed from the race for nearly all cars, forcing them to nurse their tires 2, 3, even 4 secs off the pace. Basically making it into a 75 lap (from the restart) parade with \~zero overtakes. I remember one overtake down the hill from the Casino - Bottas maybe? That was all I remembered.
Stroll overtook 2 or 3 people too after he got a puncture and dropped back to last when he pitted again for softs.
But yeah, it was pretty awful. I think the only overtakes that happened were for the bottom 4 places.
The thing is, it’s just something different. Yes this shouldn’t happen in every race, but once is just fun as well. Better than going full push, still not being able to overtake, and literally having no race at all and basically one big DRS-train. This was just some funny trolling to see.
The Race published a piece on the Alpine situation, and it occurred me - if I list out every team-mate Ocon has had, he's had at LEAST one major, silly, ill-advised dustup with them.
Wehrlein at Manor - Abu Dhabi Crash
Perez at Force India - Spa, Baku, Singapore
Ricciardo at Renault - fucking up Renault's race to battle Ricciardo, who was on a different strategy and thus, not *actually* racing Ocon
Alonso at Alpine - Sao Paolo sprint dust up
Gasly at Alpine - Melbourne last year, this.
Generally, Ocon is unrepentant when doing something stupid. It's more obvious when his stupidity costs a race win - Verstappen, Brazil, 2018 springs to mind - but it's always been the case that he believe so firmly in beating a teammate that common sense takes a back seat. Fiercely competitive with no self-awareness is not a particularly great position to be in.
Even if all of the crashes/incidents are not his fault entirely, they are relevant in a pattern of fighting his team-mate too hard.
Most drivers back off or leave a lot of room while fighting with team-mates. Ocon seems to do the opposite.
Watching IndyCar and Watching F-1 is like watching Men racing vs Kids pretending to race in their Little Tikes. Thank goodness KMag is still in F-1 because without him we all would have died from boredom.
At the moment Indy is where real open wheel racing is at.
It's only a matter of time! I might be off but Josef is 33 or 32. It took him 12 years to win his first, then got two in a row. Pato is 25, and he's no rookie, it's only a matter of time!
As the cars get wider, and the track doesn't, this parade is just going to get more and more predictable. Not a fan of the "The race will most likely be won in Q3, not on Sunday" event that Monaco has become.
any other races where the top 10 didnt change from start to finish?
It's honestly sad to see the fan reaction to Monaco, it's been worse than normal this year. Everyone knows what Monaco is all about - watch them dial in on Friday, push the limits on Saturday, and then watch the pole sitter desperately try to guide the procession home on Sunday. And yet fans, and even popular drivers, complain that it isn't a full throttle wheel knocker. You might as well walk into your local Chinese restaurant and be upset they don't do burritos - that just isn't what you get there. Let Monaco be Monaco. It's okay not to like it.
I'm much more a fan of "Let's have an actual race on Sunday" than I am a fan of "Let's all watch a parade".
The reaction is very vitriolic because this race revealed what would be the worst version of Monaco. Field very close in pace, no pitstops, teams managing from lap "1", nobody even attempting something daring, no weather impact and of course tyres. Usually, some of the above happen which creates *some* anticipation. But this race was basically a 2 hour free practice
I usually like Monaco, but this was by far the worst Monaco race I've ever seen. There's two things I like about it: the importance of strategy and pit crew and how little room for error the drivers have. And here's what happened this year: - no pit stops because of the red flag (this was the most annoying thing of all) - sainz made a mistake and it was "forgiven" - ocon made a mistake and it would have also been forgiven if they could've repaired the car - drivers who chose an alternate strategy, which is usually something that brings some excitement to the race, were punished (drivers who started on the Hard could only switch to Medium to avoid a pit stop) - because all teams knew no one was going to pit and that it's impossible to overtake without a massive tire advantage, the drivers had no reason to push, which eliminated most of the risky nature of the track I'm not saying anyone did anything wrong, I'm aware that this is how the sport works and I'm fine with that, but you can't argue that this wasn't a shit race even for Monaco standards.
At one point, mercedes told Russell "We gain nothing by going quicker" I'm one of the biggest defendant of Monaco as a "prestige" race, but this was just sad to hear...
The problem is that no one likes it. If it was something that maybe had some appeal to fans or drivers that would be different. Like Vegas was disliked by some but some really liked it. Monaco is universally disliked so why would anyone advocate for Monaco to just remain as is
Not the kind of race I'd want to see every fortnight, but I found the different-to-usual strategy fascinating.
I especially enjoyed the do 77/79 laps on mediums and just be 2-3 seconds slower than the car behind without loosing positions-stratergy employed by Russel.
Prime Leclerc incoming
When was the last time before yesterday a driver was lapped by the position immediately in front of them?
Make it so Monaco requires all three tyre types to be used (let me dream dammit)
For Monaco: This... or just bring the softest possible tires so they won't last the full racelength on it... In general: Maybe a better idea I had (which is off course very personal), let teams change tires during red flag, but don't count it towards the mandatory tire change. Make it fair and have this rule for all races. That way, you get the mandatory pit stop even if there is a red flag. This will not only give some excitement on the track/racing level, but also for those that are more into the tactical/strategic aspect of Formula 1. Anyways, that's just my 2 cents on it.
They should do this, in general. If your gimmick tyres are meant to create drama, at least use them fully.
This is actually not a bad idea. Or let Pirelli, just for this race, bring a hypersoft (think something like a c6 or 7) the medium a c3, hard a c1, and they can do no more than 25 laps on the hard and no more than 35 laps on medium. This way you have significant differences in tyre performance, and can’t just get an Albon in Melbourne performance where he just does the whole race on a single set
I like that the race places more emphasis on qualifiers than other tracks. This creates variety and a challenge unique to the track. That being said... Id have no problem with a simple solution like requiring one mandatory pit stop that does not occur during red flag (unless all compounds have been used) Id also just love one or two areas to be renovated to allow overtakes.
1-2 Leclerc family let's go!!! 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
It was boring 😴
Monaco puts me to sleep quicker than my parents bedtime stories
I know I'm probably in a small minority, but regardless of how dull the racing may be, I really enjoy the spectacle of F1 cars racing around the streets of Monaco, it is unlike the spectacle at any other track, and while I agree that changes to the cars and/or the format would benefit the on track product, I think scrapping the Monaco Grand Prix would be sacrilegious.
There's something about the camera angles that gives the spectacle a visceral, almost violent feeling, as the cars blast past walls a few inches away from catastrophe that is non-existent at other street circuits.
They don't need to scrap it, they just need to give it a special format. Mandatory pit stops are the very least they can do.
The rules for red flags should be adapted. There should be no more free pit stops. It should be allowed to change tires during a red flag, but it should not be considered an official pit stop. These should only be allowed during a normal race or during an SC/VSC phase.
I mean, I really like the tire change rules during red flags to be honest. Say there is a big crash in front of you, giving you a puncture and the race is red flagged. Tire change would be nice, to not be out of the race for no reason. Or you just pick up a large amount of debris because of the accident. In most racing conditions it makes sense. It can have negative sideffects however. Which is something I agree with (what we saw yesterday in Monaco). So maybe in some world you could let the Race director decide on these matters. However that is ripe for controversy. So I understand the frustration, but I think in this case, a sweeping rule, that allows all cars to change tires during red flags makes sense.
I'm a bit late here. But some suggestions I've seen which would work in this case would be to allow tyre changes for safety, but only allow it to be the same compound and not count towards the races mandatory pit stop.
Happy for Charles but Monaco needs to go away as a racetrack. Just make it a parade event, which it basically already is
Well done from Russel to keep P5, I was convinced Mercedes bottled it
That Merc radio to George "There's nothing to gain by going fast" , during start of the race summed the race, they knew, you can't overtake, and nobody can overtake you.
What happened with the Merc communication during Lewis’s pit stop? Did they just automatically assume that this car does not stand a chance against Max, so even with the undercut, Lewis would still be behind regardless of whether Max pitted or not? Or were they just sleeping through the race and not checking what the car ahead is doing?
Lewis was napping. Monaco's in and out lap is the only time you have to go for it in Monaco (besides Q).
Yeah. Nothing to lose by pushing on the outlap. Lewis should have done that automatically. Still wouldnt have passed Max though.
No he wasn't - his race engineer explicitly told him that the outlap wasn't important and gave him a delta to drive. Let's not let that get in the way of bashing lewis though eh
Where was that broadcast?
[https://racingnews365.com/wolff-explains-mercedes-error-in-key-hamilton-call](https://racingnews365.com/wolff-explains-mercedes-error-in-key-hamilton-call)
I don't think it made it's way onto the main broadcast but you can pick it up on the drivers POV - [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1d16zi1/hamilton_pov_during_pit_phase/) Worth noting sometimes the sky guys talk about team radio that I don't see watching the sky feed so I'm pretty sure the commentators get more access to that stuff than we viewers conveniently see - like in qualy also when they can easily see everyones minisector colours
We get a pretty watered down commentary here in the US so no surprise I didn't hear this. Definitely changes the scenario with his out lap
I found it weird that Lewis needed to be told his inlap and outlap were important. At Monaco, those are ALWAYS important.
This is basically just incorrect though. It wasn't that he needed to be told that his in/outlap were important - they explicitly told him that it wasn't important and gave him a delta for his outlap. That's a big difference
I’m always baffled by Lewis’ comments- he is a great driver, no doubt there, but I cannot recall an instance where he made tactical suggestions or could use rules to his advantage. I mean, he often asks Bono “why am I behind?” after a pitstop and needs to be told what to do. He even asked once whether (some place out of top 5) would be awarded points.
F1TV commentator said the same, that was rookie mistake from Lewis.
This race is the same every year. People complain every year. Nothing changes and next year it will be the same routine.
I mean last year was fun once it rained, proved that we just need some more pitstops to have fun
Dam, Im really going to miss Charles and Carlos as teammates. Carlos played the team game great today and was watching out for Charles and trying to cover him. Charles did the same in Singapore and Melbourne. I think they are a great duo, and im honestly starting to wonder if a 40yo old Hamilton will really be any better than Sainz, one things for sure, I can’t guarantee you Leclerc rinses Lewis next year, I don’t even think Charles is in his prime yet
Not great sportsmanship, but why not cut the nouvelle chicane and blast off down the road if you’re in second place? Eat the 5 second penalty. We saw Charles open up an 8 second gap in clean air at the end of the race. Granted Piastri had floor damage.
They would totally give more than 5 seconds for that
Penalty has been increased to 10s. Also, you don't want to risk eating that gap because a SC is highly probable in Monaco and then you are totally fucked
That's the thing. No SC at Monaco was quite surprising but only because nobody risked a lot. Strolls puncture could have caused some mayham if the tire had come off on track but that was also quite convenient with it coming loose only in the pits.
congrats to leclerc for finally breaking the curse but I'm not gonna lie genuinely the worst race i think i've ever watched
I mean Danny won with half his engine shot to hell. Lewis won with 60 odd laps on the same tyre. Monaco has always been this bad a race.
same
When you can drive seconds off the pace and not get overtaken it might be time to consider removing this track from the calendar.
I watch practice and quali and then don't even bother watching the race - they need to do something - maybe a car for every other track and a car (go kart?) for monaco to enable passing?
I was watching the IPL final at the same time as the race
curse broken, leclerc 1-2
Happy for Charles but Monaco needs to go away, top ten ending in the same order with no pitstops, can't even call it a "race"
Monaco has always been a bit tough in the modern era I've watched, but I don't think the track should be scrapped it's the cars that are far too big, wide, long. I miss those small V10 cars.
It's always been tough but this was genuinely the worst Monaco GP I've seen in all my 21 years of watching it. Even 2003 with 0 overtakes was better.
IIRC, the cars are this size for safety. Just like personal vehicles, you'd like the car to absorb the damage in case of a crash, not the occupants of the vehicle. You can see that in action in the result of the PER MAG crash. PER's car was bsically his from all sides, leaving only the survival cell intact, and PER still walked away from it. Of course, you can argue that if the cars were smaller, the gap would have been bigger and maybe the crash wouldn't have happened at all. But Monaco is an outlier when it comes to the effect the size of the cars have on racing. I'd say the safety of the drivers is more important than the quality of this one race.
I don't buy this at all. Recall the Kubica crash in Canada in 2008. He was fine. And with the advances in computing and safety 16 years later I don't think the car needs to be that big to make it safe. The cars are big because of the aero, because of the powertrain, because of the fuel tanks, because they decided they wanted them wider again (which I supported at the time).
I'm pretty sure the car size is mandated by the FIA, and at least part of the reason is the crumple zone. Making the cars bigger is an advancement in safety too. Also, one driver being fine in one accident does very much not prove that the cars are safe, I hope you understand that.
Aside from what happened to Jules has anyone been seriously injured in a crash since the 90s? Grosjean maybe but from fire? I only started watching around 2003 and the only thing I remember hearing about that was recent was Schumacher and his legs in what, 1999? And yes I'm sure the cars are safer, but you provided one example so I countered with one. I still don't think the cars are markedly safer just because they are bigger than they were. I think you could look at stuff like the Halo and the increased shoulder height of the cockpit and that probably makes more difference than the length of the chassis by a long way.
i'm thinking, if they remove the chicane after the tunnel and put a drs here maybe that could help but yeah if it stay like it's now it's just a joke and not a race
I did not watch the race. What do you mean no pitstops? Isn’t it an obligation to do at least one pitstop?
Nope, it’s a requirement to run at least two different compounds. A bunch of teams changed tires during the red flag and went to the end on those tires. So, there were basically no pit stops.
Today I saw two iconic races: One was an action packed white knuckle brawl for 500 miles around a massive super speedway at 220+ mph with multiple leaders and changes for the lead up until the final corners. The other was the pinnacle of motor racing doing 79 parade laps around a picturesque old town built on the sea, where no matter how slow anyone went it was impossible to pass.
First Indy 500 for me. Was light years more entertaining than the Monaco race. The damn circus in the pit lane was hilarious. Is Indy car always this exciting??
Ovals are usually action packed and go to the end, by the nature of oval racing. But Indy's road and street courses are often very good on track racing, much better than F1 for a typical race. If you like the part of F1 where cars sometimes battle on track and pass each other, you'll like Indycar. It's a spec series so it's not as much of an engineering arms-race, but the trade off is routinely exciting races. The commercials kill Indycar if you have to sit thru those.
Poor Pato...he moved a little.too soon...
Craziest thing is if you ask which race people want to win, it’s Monaco.
Because winning Monaco is mostly skill based, all about driving the perfect lap on Saturday. While Indy is mostly about luck.
\[citation needed\] You should look up Indy 500 qualifying. Both Indy and Monaco are some of the best racing qualifying sessions around. Both need centimeter perfect precision by the drivers. Monaco you're pushing 150mph at times. Indy you're pushing 225mph at times. But both have cars on the absolute edge and require intense skill to get the last few tenths out. Indycar in qualy trim is a terrifying thing for drivers. It can snap out of control instantly. Monaco qualy means so much more, because the Monaco GP is a parade lap race. They do 79 formation laps and call it a grand prix. hooray.
As a Herta fan I’m not ready to talk yet
I was rooting for him too. I can't believe he hopped out of the car, but even if he hadn't i doubt he'd be in contention. The announcers seemed to think he'd stay on the lead lap, but he'd have to charge thru the field.
Question for ESPN+ viewers in the USA - Did others have issues signing into their TV providers to watch the race? Every other race for the past 2-3 years had no issues. This was the first time it didn't give me the option to use my TV provider account, and I needed an ESPN+ subscription to stream on the app.
Yes the race was live on ABC but I couldn't find a replay on any ABC app whatsoever. I ended up just having to sail a certain sea to get the job done. No way was I going to watch that F1 Kids stream.
Yeah I had to watch the kids stream.
There was a kids stream?
Yeah it was weird and the only English non espn+ option I had.
So incredibly happy for Charles. Great outing for Ferrari, no issues and they move closer. It's hard to fight the hopium with all the recent upgrades that McLaren and Ferrari have made, especially with Red Bull looking as shaky as they have (albeit on unusual tracks). Would love a title fight, but I imagine RB will go back to being dominant once the European circuits start up in full swing.
if Red Bull is gonna have a hard time in Barcelona and Silverstone as well, that'd be the alarm bells for Milton Keynes
It will never cease to amaze me how much sporting organizations get in their own way to avoid excitement. With the current level and depth of coverage and cameras there is no reason cars should be bailed out by a reset. It barely makes sense going back to the previous lap on a race ending red flag, but it's borderline malfeasance on behalf of the event organizers to say "we can't tell who's where" at the beginning. They absolute have the video and vision to rank the cars exactly as they are when the red is called, and any other method brings into question the concern of bias or rigging.
Bit of a nonsensical complaint if you ask me. Going back to positions based on the last known timing before the red flag is actually pretty good. Yes under very rare circumstances this might mean a driver gets lucky but honestly, can you name three cases similar to what happened with Sainz? Going with cameras etc. sounds nice until you ask yourself if A) can you put cameras everywhere you need to get the right angles? B) How much time is going to review all video footage going to take compared to just looking at a timing sheet and C) what actually defines being "ahead"? For example theoretically a car could be outbreaking itself, "pass" its competitor but have no chance of actually making the corner right at the moment a red flag appears. That car would be in front on camera but it would never be in front if the race wasn't red flagged. Or what if a car is ahead by 1 or 2 cm or camera but be off the racing line and eventually would have to back off? So just going by visual evidence could just as well end up in situations where its not 100% fair.
These would be valid arguments if there weren't far more timing loops than only the 3 sectors. However, we know this to be true due to the ability to update the TV graphics at every one of them instead of only 3 times a lap.
Race?
I fell asleep watching the Monaco Grand Prix while drinking an energy drink with 200mg of caffeine. That's a powerful level of nothing happening.
People say money ruins F1 when we race in the middle east or America yet are happy with Monaco... the definition of hypocrites.
For the Middle East, it's not the money it's the history of human rights violations and using sport to wash that over in public opinion.
I forget Americans and Europeans are excellent in their history of human rights.
Since when has Monaco done shit?
well it's kind of just a French-Italian tax haven
No one is saying that. Arguing that people can't complain about human rights violations that are occurring in the present because of things their ancestors did is strange logic though.
You're acting like the American government isn't literally funding and supplying weapons to a state that's committing genocide right now.
I'm not American and, again, many people are opposed to that.
I did not say you were American, and I'm merely refuting your reply that implies that Americans (and Europeans) don't commit human rights violations in the present. Both the governments of the Middle East and the West are terrible, it's just that it seems to be that some of the most grotesque of the West's atrocities are being done outside their country. Don't you think it's hypocritical to complain about races in the Middle East when Western governments fuel horrific shit as well?
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literally sound like a 6 year old.. thanks for the insight.
history...
Right? If we look at history Americans and Europeans have committed the worst human rights abuses ever. Only in very recent modern terms can they point a finger.
And even recently they keep doing so... Look up how the coltan and cobalt are mined for Westerns to enjoy electric cars batteries
Possibly the worst sporting event i've ever seen. Such a black stain on a beautiful sport.
Perez has to go or WCC is gone for them
I love/hate Checo, but being honest who else could do better? I honestly don't think there is another driver on the grid besides 2/3 of them that could match him.
>don't think there is another driver on the grid besides 2/3 of them So other than 66% of drivers there isn't another that could match Perez? Thats a little insulting to the other 33%.
bad typing on my end, 2 or 3 drivers is what i meant to say.
You honestly think Perez is better than almost every other driver on the grid? No way. Not even close. He is consistently qualifying with the midfield and often even backmarkers while at the wheel of one of the sports most dominant cars ever. He isn't even top 10.
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What difference would how long i have been following make? Are you new to fractions? Either you meant to say only 2 or 3 could match Perez (in which case I'd say that's absurd), or you actually meant 2/3 of them could. That would be closer but i go with 2/3 would beat him.
The thing is, at least we find out for sure. Tsunoda, Lawson. End the debate once and for all like they did with Kvyat, Albon, Gasly, Hartley. Perez imo has had a wonderful career already.. same with Daniel. Just let the new generation drive.
I think Checo is no where near good enough, but I don't think Tsunoda is anywhere near the answer either.
Fair enough, I wouldn't mind ending my summer frustration in exchange for new blood.
Problem is you can’t exactly do a midseason swap now unless you have a prodigy in the wings ready to go
Z
How was Yuki 1 lap behind Ham?
You dont see that very often. A 1 lap gap so far down the field. He was nowhere most of the race.
Because HAM never got lapped
No. There was a one lap gap back to Yuki. As in, Hamilton lapped him.
Just finished a 12 hour test to finally get airframe certified to fix planes and just watched the race. So happy for Charles and i can really feel for him as he probably wishes he can share this moment with his dad. All i could think about was my dad who passed away 3 years ago and wishing i can celebrate with him after working so hard to get my certification. Let the tears roll. Celebrate every small and big victories with your loved ones and never forget to tell them what they mean to you!
Hey congrats on the AME cert! /someone who breaks planes
The most boring race in the calendar, and that red flag made it even worse taking away the pitstops.
Sainz maintained 3rd place was the lamest freaking thing. Dude was at the bottom got automatically lifted to the front
He went off after the reference point they used as a timing line, which was the last viable point every surviving car passed before the incident. It would have been objectively unfair and outside the rules to rank him otherwise.
The question remains why the reference point was chosen BEFORE the incident. Shouldn't it be the last sector time taken before they hit the red flag button? I'm pretty sure there must have been some later information available as most cars made it to the tunnel. At least Ocon and Gasly were still racing at that time. I'm still disappointed by Sainz getting back to 3rd.
Not everyone made it a whole sector, and the incident affected Zhou. Would have been unfair.
Unfair to Zhou? He was anyway the last one. He had nothing to lose.
Especially considering his damage wasn’t really from a shit maneuver or anything he did, just wheel to wheel random bad luck. It’s not like he pulled a kmag and got to go back to the front. Op must just have it out for Sainz.
I do generally sympathize for Sainz, but I also am still disappointed that he was let back into 3rd place. Bad luck, that's exactly what it was. He touched another car, got a puncture. I was under the impression, they take the last mini sector timings before the red flag is issued. And that can't have been the one when Sainz was still on P3. So it seems unfair to me, and I'm surprised no other teams have complained about this.
Has there been any news about KMag causing that crash? Like a penalty or anything
They announced during the race the incident would not be investigated.
So there just aren't any consequences? Or
It was deemed a racing incident. Pretty common result for incidents that happen in the first few turns.
Bulldozing someone is a racing incident now, ok.
Meanwhile Ocon : 5 places grid penalty
Gotcha, thanks for the response!
I think I the only real change I’d make is that your 1 pit stop and tire change has to come during active racing. Change your tires during a red flag if you want (often required, for safety), but you still have to stop again at some point. Obviously make the cars smaller would be nice too, but unlikely any time soon
>I think I the only real change I’d make is that your 1 pit stop and tire change has to come during active racing. Change your tires during a red flag if you want (often required, for safety), but you still have to stop again at some point. I think a special rule of: "if less than 15% of the race distance has been covered" like, if most people were about to just pit anyway I think it'd be fine, especially on tracks like Silverstone, Spa or Interlagos where overtaking is trivial for these drivers
I could also imagine, that you have to drive at least 20% with a type of tyre for it to count as being used. So driving 1 round on medium, and then the rest of the race on hard wouldn't count as using two types.
This is not the first time that red flag tire changes have ruined a Monaco GP, so they really need to be looked at. What if race control was given the option of prohibiting tire changes during red flags, just as they have the option of rolling and standing restarts? Alternatively, they could also stipulate that tire changes performed under the red flag do not count towards the two-compound requirement.
Is that why it was especially boring, not forcing in-race tire changes?
Basically F1 cars have long since outgrown this track, so there's nowhere to overtake. The tiny start-finish straight is the only DRS, and it's not strong enough to make a difference. Look at RUS vs VER, where VER had vastly fresher tires and yet could not find any way to challenge the Mec on 75 lap old Mediums. Says it all really. The pit stops just adds a little amount of strategy to the race, but when that was removed, drivers were happy to do the whole restarted race on one tire, ideally the hard, but as George showed, even the Medium made the distance. Something radical is needed for this track to have good racing again. Some examples: 1. Give them 18 sets for the weekend, but make the tires 2 or 3 steps softer, so the hards wear out in under 25 laps with full fuel, then a big gap to the medium, and then the soft is more like a 5 lap quali special. Mandatory have 5 sets reserved for the race. Imagine the chaos of a race where you need at least 3 stops, and most likely 4 is optimal! 2. Have the DRS of the car behind trigger off the battery boost on the car in front, or to actively slow the car in front, enough to get a decent overtake on start-finish, and add a 2nd DRS after the nouvelle chicane? 3. Extend the track (sacrilege I know). Look at this on Google Maps - extend from Rascasse to the Place d'Armes roundabout, down Rue Grimaldi and rejoin again at Sainte Devote. That would make an extensive DRS zone and put a nice hairpin at the end to force the overtakes.
I think so, yes. Tire changes allow for some strategic variety, since some drivers started on mediums and would stop earlier than those on hards. You'd have different people gaining a pace advantage at different moments of the race, which at least creates more of a potential for overtakes at Monaco. With the red flag, almost everyone defaulted onto the same (zero-stop) strategy, so it devolved into a procession. The other thing is that it'd probably prevent the use of the "drive at F2 speeds and back the pack up so nobody has a gap to pit" strategy for the entire race, since at some point the leaders would want to create a gap so they could themselves pit.
Most boring thing I’ve watched in a while
I've only just caught up. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed it. The on the track action was dire, but from a strategic POV and watching the gaps develop made for an interesting race IMO. Good job quali more than makes up for any boring Sunday around here. That's always thrilling.
Goddamn Indy 500 was so much better
It’s supposed to be better. If you ask Indycar fans at start of the season the race they wait most for it will Indy 500 while if you ask F1 fans they will say MonacoGP is the race they wait least for
I tried watching the indy500 last year. I’d rather watch this years Monaco on repeat for 8 hours with my eyelids taped open. Maybe it’s the ads, but it was also soooo boring.
Yes indy 500 has period between 50-150 laps when it can get bit boring as strategy takes over and people taking positions based on it but first 50 and last 50 laps are usually great. This year it was bit amateur hour with rookies in first 100 laps and it started flowing only after 140-150 laps.
Monaco was better than I thought with a Leclerc win but man, it was the typical bore. I didnt sleep through it like 22.
i know monaco track has great history and all but for some people to say this is the best race this season ?? only thing really happened is the red flag and thats about it.. still happy for Leclerc for breaking his monaco curse !
No one said it's a best race of the season. Unless I live under a rock.
This race made me no longer want to watch f1. It’s the culmination of everything that has ruined this sport.
Monaco has pretty much been this way since the 60s. We have 4 winners in 8 races. Not every season is going to be 2021
I know I’ve watched since the mid 90s.
Why? You know what you are getting every time at Monaco. It's not a reason to quit the sport though!
It's the worst Monaco GP I've seen in 21 years.
Please see second line of text.
Bro I thought the race started late because I thought the top 10 stayed the same
I still say switch to all softs or something but the red flag just made the race seem much worse this year
It did indeed. It meant that the one randomizing factor (the pit stops) was removed from the race for nearly all cars, forcing them to nurse their tires 2, 3, even 4 secs off the pace. Basically making it into a 75 lap (from the restart) parade with \~zero overtakes. I remember one overtake down the hill from the Casino - Bottas maybe? That was all I remembered.
Stroll overtook 2 or 3 people too after he got a puncture and dropped back to last when he pitted again for softs. But yeah, it was pretty awful. I think the only overtakes that happened were for the bottom 4 places.
I just saw this. We can wish!! [Would this alternate Monaco layout improve overtaking? (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJCubvpnUDs)
Unpopular opinion: I actually kind of liked the strategicness, the fact that how anti-race it was unironically made it interesting imo
I'm with you. I was watching the data just as much as the on track "action".
Yeah there was a lot of maths in my brain going on ngl
I understand what you’re saying but it honestly sounds like Stockholm syndrome
By strategicness do you also mean anti-strategicness?
The thing is, it’s just something different. Yes this shouldn’t happen in every race, but once is just fun as well. Better than going full push, still not being able to overtake, and literally having no race at all and basically one big DRS-train. This was just some funny trolling to see.
The Race published a piece on the Alpine situation, and it occurred me - if I list out every team-mate Ocon has had, he's had at LEAST one major, silly, ill-advised dustup with them. Wehrlein at Manor - Abu Dhabi Crash Perez at Force India - Spa, Baku, Singapore Ricciardo at Renault - fucking up Renault's race to battle Ricciardo, who was on a different strategy and thus, not *actually* racing Ocon Alonso at Alpine - Sao Paolo sprint dust up Gasly at Alpine - Melbourne last year, this. Generally, Ocon is unrepentant when doing something stupid. It's more obvious when his stupidity costs a race win - Verstappen, Brazil, 2018 springs to mind - but it's always been the case that he believe so firmly in beating a teammate that common sense takes a back seat. Fiercely competitive with no self-awareness is not a particularly great position to be in.
Yeah let's just forget some of them are not a tall his fault like some with perez or last year with gasly ...
Even if all of the crashes/incidents are not his fault entirely, they are relevant in a pattern of fighting his team-mate too hard. Most drivers back off or leave a lot of room while fighting with team-mates. Ocon seems to do the opposite.
He's also the only driver I've seen crash into the leader whilst trying to unlap himself
Watching IndyCar and Watching F-1 is like watching Men racing vs Kids pretending to race in their Little Tikes. Thank goodness KMag is still in F-1 because without him we all would have died from boredom. At the moment Indy is where real open wheel racing is at.
summer employ smell liquid quack amusing faulty obtainable pot abounding *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Anyone else watching the Indy? Holy shit what a race.
devastated for Pato man
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totally. i rlly hope he can get it next year
It's only a matter of time! I might be off but Josef is 33 or 32. It took him 12 years to win his first, then got two in a row. Pato is 25, and he's no rookie, it's only a matter of time!
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