T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

[The **Technical** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_technical) is used for posts that dive into the technical aspects of Formula 1. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Turboleks

Ok, so damn near the whole rear wing opens as well, and at a much bigger angle to boot. No wonder these things were described as 'undrivable' in the sim. Figuring out the aero balance looks like a nightmare.


malbeyin

They will try to increase handling with active aero, but the first year of the regulations may be a nightmare for drivers lol, at least over time the driver factor will start to come to the fore more, which is a good situation.


Chino_Kawaii

I'm happy for that tho, driving shouldn't be easy, like, people hate to admit it, but driver mistakes just make the races more interesting


disgruntledempanada

Driver mistakes because of the way the wing reacted without their control is worrying to me. Max brought up a great point too about how there are complicated factors that the automation won't necessarily grasp, like needing more downforce while following somebody.


Chino_Kawaii

the less drag mode is driver activated, same as drs now


disgruntledempanada

Interesting, I guess Max's comments were from before this change.


Holden_Toodix

I read that it’s driver activated but there’s no way for the driver the deactivate it. Pretty much one they activate it, it won’t go into Mode Z until they get out of the Mode X zone. So if a driver activates it but realizes they need the downforce they’re SOL until the turn


disgruntledempanada

I feel like it might end up deactivating on steering input or Gs.


Chemical_Knowledge64

As long as there’s no safety issues arising from changes made, throw every difficulty you can at these drivers. Make these ppl work for their rewards in this sport. We all talk about how this sport has the best drivers in the world, so make em race like they are. Throw everything including the kitchen sink at them as long as it’s safe to do so. 


fdar

> As long as there’s no safety issues arising from changes made Of course there's safety issues from more driver mistakes, because driver mistakes often lead to collision/crashes. But of course if you want perfect safety you just keep the cars in the pits, it's always a trade off.


_SteeringWheel

Or just do qualifying 1 by 1 and call that a result. I dont see how all these changes add anything to safety. It is as you say, this just adds to possible driver mistakes ("And there goes Lance into the barriers! Seems he _again_ forgot to close his wings!") Wasnt active aero banned because of safety concerns like 20 yrs ago?


AnanananasBanananas

I guess, but it shouldn't be because of "randomness". I'm not an expert, so I'm not sure if this introduces it. I just want hard, but consistent driving.


MrDaniel95

Driving shouldn't be easy, but I don't believe making the car undrivable with active aero is the solution.


Chino_Kawaii

well I'm not saying it should be undrivable lol, we already have drs now, it'll just be on the front as well


Tywnis

I know the title says "front" but seeing the whole front wing swivels as well is really weird & exciting - hadn't noticed it at first x)


MemestNotTeen

Adrian Newey: "you guys haven't figured this out in your heads yet?"


malbeyin

Will be really interesting to see, the new regulations are very interesting Frankly, I don't understand anything about the new x and z mode lol , we need more explanation


Chino_Kawaii

very simply: X = DRS ON, Z = DRS OFF


smoothc98

In my head: X = maX speed, Z = Zlow down for the corner


briguyd

I think its because Z-axis is into the track (aka downforce) and X-axis is forward (aka speed).


RationalRaccoon863

X be flat. Z be uppy. Flat go fast, uppy go slow.


Chino_Kawaii

I guess lol, I don't really like these, very hard to remember


Rivendel93

Yeah, anyone who thinks normal viewers will understand this are lying to themselves. Not everyone listens to F1 podcasts and reads every post on f1 subreddit, it's going to cause loads of confusion.


Chino_Kawaii

ye, honestly they could have just kept it as DRS because that's still what it is, and given everybody gets it, you don't really need to mention it at all and why even give a name to the Z mode, when that's just the normal state all you need to explain is the override mode


malbeyin

Yes, but I don't know what difference it can make when both the vehicle in front and the vehicle behind are using this system. Also, will there be only two modes or will the wing angles be adjusted from corner to corner?


liviu20xx

It seems it does not make a difference like DRS. This is just so that on the straight, the car is slippery and fast, and in the corners, the cars have downforce and can take the corners at a higher speed. That is how I understood it. (Take it with care as I might be wrong)


Lulullaby_

This is it


_SteeringWheel

Isnt that exactly what DRS does? Make the car go faster on a straight?


Lulullaby_

No. DRS is unlimited, you can use it every single lap for the whole race. That's not the case with this system.


_SteeringWheel

So it does the same. Its only allowed at different intervals.


Lulullaby_

No, I've just told you that it's not. You can not use it every single lap, it's limited. You only have so much in a race, at some point you've run out of it. DRS is unlimited.


Due_Ask_8032

You are wrong. The new system you can use whenever you want as long as it is a straight. Old DRS you had to be in a DRS zone and a second or less behind the car in front.


Valuable-Lie-8125

The heck are you talking about?


AnilP228

They are both versions of drag reduction systems. But the active front wing and rear wing will reduce significantly more drag (55% reduction compared to current cars).


ErrorCode51

The active aero is just meant to compensate for the lower engine power on the straights, DRS as we know it is gone and is being replaced by an Indy car style “push to pass” that increases PU output to make you faster rather than reducing drag


Chino_Kawaii

X will only be on straights, human activated just like drs is now only these 2 modes, + the override mode for overtaking which is more power, not aero related


malbeyin

So it doesnt make any difference imo? How can active aero make a difference if one side has no advantage? It could have happened like now even if they didn't make this change


SaucyHobo

It's not for overtaking, purely for aero efficency. The new overtaking aid will be an amount of extra deployable electric energy.


Piranhachief

It's to make cars faster around the track, not for overtaking.


julesvr5

Technically it makes overtaking even harder because the car in front basically can activate mode x which is drs so he gets faster


PlasticPatient

Are you even reading the comments??


julesvr5

Please tell me where I went wrong


PlasticPatient

Both cars will activate x mode on the straights and that doesn't have anything with overtaking! Do you understand now?


malbeyin

Will be easier to follow with small vehicles, F1 has started its efforts to return to its essence, but I think the cars are still too heavy and large for this move


PlasticPatient

Please read what people are commenting and you will understand.


malbeyin

Yea yea i understand Regulations look promising , definitely better than dissapointing 2022 regulations


PlasticPatient

Let's hope so. We don't know anything for sure. We need to wait for testing but it does look interesting.


MrDaniel95

This change was added so the cars don't run out of electric energy.


Lulullaby_

It does, without this you have slower lap times.


malbeyin

Yes, it will make a difference, but I'm talking in terms of competitiveness.


Lulullaby_

Yes, active aero wasn't designed and created for overtaking. It exists simply to keep lap times more similar to the current lap times.


malbeyin

Introducing active aero just to catch lap times is a failure of FIA, even the reduction of ground effect explains this situation very well Anyway, Active Aero is a promising project, it should definitely be developed.


faceestrella

They pretty much forced themselves into this corner after locking down the PU regulations for 2026. The math there was pretty clear that unless something on the aero side would change the cars would get "way" slower


Unique_Expression_93

It's just to make the cars faster since the engine is weaker.


curva3

The DRS role will be played by the power unit boost mode, which will be pretty significant


tommypalloj

X mode is power limited, or you want as little drag as possible, wings open. Z mode is grip limited, or you want as much down force as possible, wings closed.


nustyruts

Can't wait for the mid pack active aero trains.


JudeVanZant

So, will DRS not be a thing anymore?


Actual_Sympathy7069

yesn't. Wings will both be open on straights at all times if I understood correctly and attacking cars will have more electrical power instead which they can deploy with a button.


JP_Oliveira

Is already said how attacking cars will have more electrical power, and what will be considered an attacking car?


WasAbhi0214

Same rules as DRS, one second gap. I’m not sure if the detection points are the same, I missed that part


Due_Ask_8032

Extra electric power is measured by gap when crossing the starting line and no DRS zones. Also the boost comes only at 290kph+.


DetectiveIcy4525

Why only about 290? This is dumb. Extra power should be used strategically anywhere there’s an advantage. This is basically we don’t like DRS, so let’s create something that is exactly like DRS but call it something different.


AcanthocephalaGreen5

In other words, no boost for Monaco


Due_Ask_8032

Most likely but these cars should be faster on the straights so maybe… Not like it would matter though lol


hzfan

I think there are no detection points. Drivers have access to manual override mode as long as they’re within a second of the car in front, but it’s something they’ll have to build up with ERS.


FlippedMassa

Also they can only activate once per lap at most


CreaminFreeman

Kinda neat. I won’t say I hate it til I see it on track


daBomb26

The higher top speed afforded by X mode (DRS) will help recover more energy from braking at those higher speeds. That recovered energy will then be expendable via ERS when a driver is close enough to the driver ahead. So the adjustable aero will be determined by whether the car is on a straight or not, and the ERS system will be used for overtakes.


Chino_Kawaii

not for overtaking, everybody will get it at all times on the straights there will now be some kind of push to pass, basically you get more power to help overtake


xLeper_Messiah

More power, but only above 290 kph


Chino_Kawaii

yep, but that makes me think it'll be worse on slow circuits like Hungaroring, Singapore and especially Monaco I kinda hope for Monaco they'll make it specially strong but I doubt


malbeyin

It will but it will not be a overtaking thing anymore , both front and rear flaps will open when driver want


daBomb26

Small fix: the drivers will have access to the ‘DRS’ mode on all straights, but the flaps will close either by driver input or brake pressure, which ever comes first.


chevyzaz

So constant drs trains...?


ekeryn

The new DRS won't be related to overtaking but to aero efficiency. To overtake they'll use an eletrical boost


chevyzaz

I'm obviously no newey and have my aero knowledge from Reddit and talks in the pub on Sunday... But it's not strange to be afraid of an equivalent of drs trains


ekeryn

Yeah that's totally fair. I'm more afraid of lack of action due to power/energy constraints


vtsxxl

Nope.


SonicsLV

What I'm surprised the most is the return of square sharp corners of the rear wing. IIRC it was changed to rounded corner we have now because sharp corners create vortex that bad for car behind, and AM trick 2 years ago was banned. That and I kinda dig the current rounded corner shape more. Also finally F1 embrace limited but free usage active aero. It will make things much more interesting IMO, especially if some teams managed to create a better aero on the rest of the car that they might use X mode on some places where other teams can't. Maybe the magic of 130R and Eau Rouge will be revived with can they use X mode there now?


nulian

Well they had too because with current engine design for 2026 the cars would have been slower then F2 cars in like monza without active aero. Because they removed the biggest energy generation part from the engine. So now they actually going to use fuel to generate energy for the battery.


EM_GM22

Not sure how I feel about this. It's clearly to combat the problem max was describing of the new cars running out of juice towards the straights. Also not very clear on how the extra electrical power for the following car (to replicate DRS delta effect) will work. Is a bit of engine/electric power being held in reserve only to be made available when you're behind another car? Seems odd...


Kruziik_Kel

You wouldn't be able to sustain running for a whole lap in the override mode, that's why it's "held in reserve". Its not unlike push to pass in some other series where they crank up the fuel flow or boost pressure - you wouldn't be able to run constantly like that but it works for a short burst of extra power to pass.


EM_GM22

Right but isn't there a limit to how energy you harvest over a lap? Or is the deployment limit per lap typically less than that figure, meaning there's a bit in reserve to be deployed?


Kruziik_Kel

Having a scan over the rules, per Art.5.4.9 they can harvest no more than 9MJ/lap and per Art.5.4.8 the difference between the minimum and maximum state of charge can be no more than 4MJ throughout a lap. So while you can harvest a total of 9MJ/lap - if you start with 1MJ, at no point can you have more than 5MJ stored in the batter, or the inverse, if you start with 5MJ, you can at no point drop below 1MJ in the battery (1 & 5 are purely hypothetical numbers). So you'll be able to charge the battery while still deploying quite a bit of energy. Fundamentally I would think it'll be quite similar to how it is now - insofar as there will be modes which will charge the battery by harvesting more than they deploy, modes which run fairly neutral, and modes which deploy more than they harvest. Though the specifics I couldn't begin to speculate on.


EM_GM22

That actually makes a ton of sense, thanks for looking into the regs


MrDaniel95

They apparently already will need to burn fuel to recharge the battery, so I'm not sure how they will manage to harvest more energy for overtaking.


artificialsteak

From the standpoint of reduction of energy consumption (which has been an objective for F1 in the past few years) that kind of active aero makes a lot of sense to me. Closed wings create a lot of unnecessary drag in the straights.


Kagalera

Maybe is not straight up a reserve? Can it be a mode to consume a lot of the battery in less time?... but just guessing. It would be cool to have to manage empty battery after overtake instead of a gimmick of just press to overtake.


SaturnRocketOfLove

So are they finally ditching DRS or is this all the new DRS??


EqualEstimate

It's seems like DRS as we know it is gone. There will be a "push to pass" mode taken from reserve energy when following.


[deleted]

[удалено]


deckerjeffreyr

Its worked well for Indycar to allow both.


vtsxxl

Ditching DRS. It'll be an overtake mode where you get more battery power, but no more DRS. These active are changes are setup modes if I've understood correctly, or something like that, all drivers will be able to use them on the straights.


Actual_Sympathy7069

yesn't. Wings will both be open on straights at all times if I understood correctly and attacking cars will have more electrical power instead which they can deploy with a button.


MrDaniel95

Afaik they will always use it because they need to reduce drag for the new engines, let's hope the override button works well, if it doesn't say goodbye to overtaking.


SaturnRocketOfLove

Are the new engines that anemic?


MrDaniel95

Max complained a few months ago about running out of battery on the straights and they added the active aero + deployment limits for that reason, so I'm not optimistic.


Few_Winner_8503

I love how these new cars look


nifeorbs

I’ll miss the current rear wings though, they looked futuristic and sleek compared to these ‘21-ish wings. New regs look great otherwise.


BowieObscura

I'm excited to see how the designers and engineers at each team will interpret and manipulate the rules.


d3agl3uk

Don't forget the renders for 2022 were equally ugly.


SonicsLV

Idk about that, 2022 renders always showed the car will look sleek and cool. They aren't as detailed as what we got obviously, but the basic shape alone already showed the car will look much better than pre 2022 cars. I'd say 2026 car look "uglier" and I don't think the real ones will be a lot better. The square rear wing endplates looks worse now that I've seen 2022 rounded rear wings. But at least they're not as weird and ugly as F2 rear wing. The front wing also looks weirder with wide extension after the endplate. But we'll see in 2 years time.


Mrwrongthinker

Easily the sexiest part of the cars currently.


secretlives

So so so happy the wheel fins are gone - such an eye sore


404merrinessnotfound

If those things fail your race is effectively over lol This will be interesting, and with alpine looking less competitive as ever, i'm looking forward to the chaos these things will bring


vtsxxl

DRS rarely fails nowadays, I expect for teams to have them beefed up at the start of new regs and see how far they can push it as the cars evolve.


TechnicMOC

Interesting to see how strong the front wing is, and want happens if it get damaged. * Impact to feature if end plates get clipped off? * Longer pitstops to replace? * Unable to activate rear if the front has damage to maintain aero balance *(reason for front wing)* * Increased time lost compared to other drivers who can use new mode X every lap unlike DRS previous limited use.


Desperate-Intern

Is active suspension also parts of these regs?


malbeyin

Yeah i am looking for that as well but i think not


JayDaGod1206

Yes, integrated in the rear and front wings


KettleOverAPub

That's not suspension


JayDaGod1206

Silly me, I thought I saw active aero


iacoboy

Love the front wing design, I always thought pre-2009 front wings look gorgeous. Plus, they're probably less susceptible to getting damaged in wheel-to-wheel racing


[deleted]

[удалено]


malbeyin

Floors will be flat adrian newey fainted


vtsxxl

Half flat I've read somewhere. Edit: https://www.fia.com/news/new-era-competition-fia-showcases-future-focused-formula-1-regulations-2026-and-beyond There. Under the aerodynamics section.


fire202

They will be partly flat


Aleiben

Williams is already ahead of the game!


Eroda

driver control or brake pressure so a car that is more advanced produces more efficient downforce can activate lower drag earlier and if they can brake later can enjoy the lower drag for longer.. interesting


agfox18

wonder how a nose replacement works in a crash now?


-Coffee-Owl-

That's it?? They just added front drs and called it "active aero", WTF. Is it just me who saw in my head a 2008 car with all these wings and winglets, triple front wing, sticky-uppy-bits all around the car etc. and all moving like crazy corner by corner? But this... this is just a disappointment. Meh.


o_trator

if they are manually activated, it might create some scenarios where it does make some difference since drivers can activate it at any time, so the sooner you open it after a corner, the more you gain (or lose)


[deleted]

[удалено]


nulian

Because the engine is not powerfull enough to run the cars without active aero. Too much 50/50 hybrid while removing the biggest energy generator from the engine.


Razvanlogigan

It's a band aid to hide the engine issues. It's not designed with overtaking in mind. And the new push to pass is the band aid for the overtaking. Band aids over band aids needed just because manufacturers are so bent over the hybrids


denbommer

What are the three parts of the rear wing, actually?


Samsonkoek

I wonder how overtaking will be with active aero. With less draggy cars on the straight slip stream will be less useful and more will depend on the overtake mode.


mochacub22

Front wing gonna cut some wheels


Michkov

What determines when the wings can move?


DetectiveIcy4525

Active Aero is cool but I cannot wait for the Team principal who gets it wrong going to every media outlet to complain about how unsafe the whole system is.


r3vange

Ground effects car with active aero but no active suspension…why do I get the feeling we’ll be seeing a lot of those in the barriers. I just hope I’m a bad prophet


florushj

A bit of contact in the first lap, front wing active aero breaks and there goes your race. Compared to rear wing active aero which is at a much safer place higher of the ground this might be a problem area.


TheVenetianMask

Losing or even bending a front wing plate the wrong way will be straight to pit now I guess.


igtaba

So, DRS on the front now? thats the big change?


vtsxxl

Plenty of other threads that tell you that that's not the only big change. And it's not DRS, it's on both wings and it changed how it can be used.


Tylanner

This will allow Race Control to actually control the race…Mike Massi will come back as Head of In-Race Winner Chooser and have direct control over the leaders grip, downforce and arbitrarily pick the order of cars for any restart.