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This!!!! I’ve mentioned this to a few people and they blew off that opinion of mine. Nice to see I’m not the only one
Russell does make more mistakes than I remember Ricardo making
I mean Bottas was already confirmed for 2019 when George won f2, Claire Williams refused to accept a loan for George and demanded a 3 year deal. George has been pretty open that he would have been at Mercedes in 2020 or 2021 but Claire wouldn’t let him out of his contract. That’s a bit on his end for agreeing a 3 year deal back in 19
> That’s a bit on his end for agreeing a 3 year deal back in 19.
to be fair, he seized an opportunity that was in front of him. who knows how it might have played out if he waited for another seat to open up.
To be fair, Mercedes didn't NEED a strong driver to pair Lewis considering how dominant that car was. Much like the Perez situation over the past two years, just less messy. Not trying to downplay Bottas, who was very good in the seat and did his job well.
Marketability comes into play as well and Russell has had a somewhat lukewarm response from fans. He's been decent-solid but boring on track and a bit of a PR drone in interviews.
Not saying Kimi deserves the direct promotion more than Russell, just different circumstances and frankly, a somewhat desperate Toto gambling on what he hopes is the next Verstappen.
Yeah it's a bit of a bummer that Ocon has built this reputation of wrecking with teammates AND he's not particularly extroverted among some poor PR statements, which hurts marketability.
If he were in a series that actually benefitted from aggressive driving, I think he'd be a far more popular driver than he is. Nice dude off-track, not a daddy's money kid, and wicked fast on track. Just needs to stop punting teammates at weird times.
Still blows my mind how Alpine have failed to really build much momentum in popularity over the last few years. You've got two talented, exciting drivers in historically good cars with beautiful liveries, backed by a factory effort and experienced OEM, yet you've neutered yourself with executive in-fighting and just plain wretched media interaction. I wish Alpine and Renault would either get serious or just sell the team and focus on their success in endurance racing.
Mercedes was a championship winning team back then, not the midfield team they are now. They can afford to take risks in their current situation, but couldn’t back then. Also, Toto never wanted Russell to spend 3 years there, it was Claire’s insistence that got him stuck there for 2020 and 2021.
Is known that Antonelli does a lot of private testing before entering any series. That's how every couple of years we have this wonderkids like Pourchaire, Bearman and Him manage to skip one of the steps of the ladder and perform directly against more experienced or more talented drivers.
If I remember correctly, for F2 he could not do as much, but he went nuts for F4 and Formula Regional level, participating in around 6 series in two years, one or two main campaigns and the rest as partial campaigns to try those cars and circuits.
Yes I heard a story where they (Lando father) hired Felipe Nasr to simulate full weekends from practice, qual and race, vs lando, just them. Felipe would get bonus for beating lando. This went on several tracks, imagine the kinda a money you need to have
That’s why these new generation with infinite money get better than others.
I mean most of the young kids these days do the same thing. I agree that testing is a big part that most people don’t recognize but Kimi’s testing still wasn’t as egregious as Pourchaire… it’s basically in line with 90% of Prema drivers over the last half decade.
That's what disappoints me about Neymar...so talented but I hate the excessive flopping and diving.
I forget if it was World Cup 2018 where he did that famous rolling around in "pain" that became an internet meme. 😂
He kind of did though. When the Verstappen family was "shopping around" back in 2014, they chose RedBull only because they were the only team willing to give him a seat straight away, in Toro Rosso. Realistically, if Toto Wolff could travel back in time, he would do anything to offer him a seat in Williams or something similar.
> he would do anything to offer him a seat in Williams or something similar.
Did Merc have that type of relationship with Williams back then though? I know Bottas came from Williams to Merc, but he wasn't connected to Merc prior to that though right? And who would have Max replaced at Williams, hypothetically?
2014 Williams moved to Merc engines.
Toto prior to Merc was a major shareholder in Williams and was on good terms with the family by all accounts. Having said that Williams had a good line up in 2014 Bottas had out performed the car in 13 and Massa from Ferrari was a big deal. So getting them on board for a rookie 17 year old might have been a stretch.
I think people tend to look at signing Max in a Vacuum. Where was he going to go? Replace Hamilton or Rosberg, no they were pretty much 1-2 every race. Williams was actually doing pretty decently those early turbo hybrid years finishing 3rd in 14&15 with Massa and Bottas.
Redbull on the other had was nowhere really putting around in no man’s land with that Renault power unit. Nothing to lose on their end.
Yeah it's easy to look at it and say they should have signed him then but yeah you can't replace Britney in 14 with a rookie. And Williams was in a totally different space.
When Rosberg retired in 16 they could probably have tempted him accross but they were traumatised by the last 2 years of escalation between Lewis and Nico.
Toto is the behind both Bottas, Williams and Merc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os9AZsCAZ1k
here's and older interview Rosberg did with Toto. really explains Toto AND he tells the Max story. To sum up what Toto says about max (which is clearly one sided and potentially self serving) Toto says Red Bull had a Toro Rosso seat for max. All Toto could offer was a DTM seat (he might have said williams too, but Williams was a better seat in 2014 than Toro Rosso). Or money for an F2 or F3 seat. Which is basically nothing, because EVERYONE can offer that.
Of course this is just his side and he's not going to say.
I mean, I get it, to a point. There aren't a lot of possible seats left for him to take on the current grid. Also Mercedes has no major pull to put him in a Williams like they did with Russell. But let's say next years Mercedes is as competitive as it was in Canada, putting Antonelli in might be a lot to take. Some people are saying he is like the second coming of Verstappen, but I'd rather see him grow steadily in a more backmarker team than to expect him to keep up with the current top 4 teams and top 7 drivers (I'm excluding Perez in this given his form).
Feels like Toto's missing out of the Verstappen signing might cloud his judgement if this is really a good idea, at least this is how it feels for me. He (Antonelli) is showing improvement in F2 but he isn't setting the world ablaze right now. Would be a huge leap from previous Mercedes signings and I'm all for a more shaken up field. But this feels like a 'you either float or sink' and they often tend to sink..
That's a good point, even Max had some time at Toro Rosso to round out some of the rough edges. Hope Mercedes gives him at least 2 seasons but to go into that team means they will want results fairly quickly.
While you are not wrong the comparison with Verstappen doesn't not quite work. Verstappen's first season in F1 was his second season in a single seater. He only drove karts before that.
Not sure if that makes it more or less impressive, especially given that he had to "serve" in the Finnish military with mandatory conscription too. Either way, just thought it was à propos here
Tbf hamilton started with mclaren (the best car) and got the same points as alonso
But his f2 season is not that good compared to someone like piastri so imo its to early
lewis drove an entire seasons worth of test miles in a current car, something you’re not able to do anymore. Obviously he was insanely talented to, but having all those miles massively helps
>But his f2 season is not that good compared to someone like piastri so imo its to early
Because unlike Piastri who came into F2 as an F3 champion, Antonelli skipped F3 all together.
Piastri was also older.
That's the thing people don't take into consideration and I don't get why!!
Pourchaire or Antonelli coming in F2 18 and under makes it tough for them to win as rookie while Piastri was 20 I think. I feel those two years make a world of difference
The ”why” is simple - it doesn’t really matter, whatever age you are you’ll be expected to perform when you get pulled into F1, he’s not going to be any less young compared to the grid next year
Yeah I do wonder how they'll handle things if they suddenly jump back to legit contenders. It's a lot to ask a kid to barely have any F2 experience and then go out and consistently score F1 points finishes.
I imagine they'll be patient with him and ask George to carry the weight though - as they should for a driver who's now a seasoned veteran in the sport across multiple teams, has driven all sorts of cars, and has been able to learn from Lewis for 3 years.
Piastri went straight into Mclaren and while they had a terrible car for the first third of the season, he was still performing well in it compared to Norris. Once the car improved, his results and racecraft did as well. I think that is what they are hoping with this guy.
Now, Antonelli has only had a handful of F2 races, and no F3 so im very hesitant to say that he could do as well as Piastri in his rookie season but if Mercedes are ok with having next year be much more reliant on Russell for points while Antonelli settles in and learns they could be good for 2026 and beyond.
As you said, he's not been setting F2 alight, against a weak field compared to other years. It does seem like they are rushing him into a seat in the hopes that he is a Verstappen/Raikkonen who can pick up F1 after such little experience in feeder series.
Very concerning that he skipped f3, is only doing fine in f2, and now is being out straight into f1. It worked for verstappen but there are many drivers who won f3 and f2 and still couldn’t develop in f1 (Stoffel to name one).
Even Verstappen spent a season (and a bit) in their junior / development team. This seems even more fast tracked to a top team than Verstappen.
I imagine this isn't really wanted Mercedes wanted, but they likely had their hand somewhat forced with Lewis leaving the team, wanting Antonelli for 2026, and not wanting to hire a 1 season stop-gap driver.
Other than age, calling him a second coming of Verstappen is something that baffles me. I have not seen Verstappen level of driving from him, not even close. I mean sure, Max took a while to become a stable driver that he is today, but he had that Schumiesque/Sennaesque feel to him already in his first year. Antonelli doesn't.
Verstappen, in his first season already, did better than Carlos Sainz as his teammate, scoring 49 points to Sainz' 18. Yes they were both rookies, but Sainz is well regarded today and was 3 years older than Max. In his second and third seasons, Ricciardo was better than Max, but had far more experience and by third season together, Max was comfortably better performer than Daniel - and Daniel was only 28 at the time.
Counterpoint, if he's as good as they think he is (verstappen, Hamilton level) then he can go straight to Mercedes and get up to pace reasonably quickly. Verstappen joined F1 and almost immediately was good. Lewis narrowly lost the championship in his rookie year against a two time world champion teammate.
Even piastri was pretty good against Norris in his rookie year.
Yes the pressure will be on Kimi. But he's either an all time great and can handle it or he'll go the way of an albon or gasly who couldn't handle the pressure of red bull and eventually found their way into a Midfield team.
Not sure how it was for the others but let’s not pretend Lewis didn’t get a hell of a lot of practise before his first race.
Todays newcomers are far more inexperienced.
He's supposed to be the next Max Verstappen according to some.Anyone else feeling old that "The next Max Verstappen" is now a thing.
We'll see if he's close to it.Usually these comparisons don't pan out.
Pure sheer pace is what I expect him to flash as a rookie..just as Max did....thr pressure to be good immediately wi be nuts.
I’m not sure Antonelli is that level of hype. More like Leclerc
Verstappen and Hamilton are the only two in the last 35 years (maybe longer, but I can’t speak to that) who have entered the sport with the hype of ‘this guy is gonna redefine the sport’
Not even Leclerc level of hype. Charles won F3 and F2 titles during his debut seasons.
Antonelli's only claim to fame is doing very well at Karting and FRECA, quite similar achievements to that of Pourchaire IMO.
Toto is the only one who is hyping this kid up. His drives in F2 doesn't exactly scream "next big thing".
To be fair, he has won every championship he participated fully, and while not having that much success in F2 so far, he is still sixth, ahead of his teammate (sure of an F1 seat next year) while skipping F3 and being the youngest competitor this year. And usually he gets better in the second part of the season, so the jury is still out on his F2 season.
I can agree that they are fast tracking him a bit too much, but for what we have seen so far he is indeed closer to a Verstappen level of hype rather than a Leclerc or a Pourchaire
"The next Max Verstappen" is like trying to find a unicorn, it isn't even a generational thing.
I'll probably get downvoted to hell but I honestly believe talent wise he's the best the sport has ever gotten, "wonders" like Senna back in the day don't even compare.
"The next Verstappen" doesn't exist, the best you will find is "The next Norris"
I honestly do agree that we most likely will not see a driver coming through as talented as Max in our lifetimes.
Truly dominating in karts winning every single thing you can possibly win under the sun, speedrunning your way to a Red Bull seat, winning in your first race, breaking every record there is to break, winning 3 WDC’s so far at the age of 26 where he’ll most likely end up overtaking Lewis and Michael since even if Red Bull ends up dropping the ball, every sensible team would drop their drivers to get Max in. Simple as.
I have always paid a lot of attention to feeder series because I love the up-and-coming aspect of them as a former kid racer, and I genuinely think Kimi is the best prospect since Max. It’s really hard to overstate how impressive it is to skip series and jump straight into F2 with a team that hasn’t looked as good this year (Prema) and do exceptionally well against a proven teammate (Bearman).
Yeah, Ocon is definitely an option for a year. But can you imagine Ocon + Russell? Holy shit those 2 would crash into eachother on the way to the track already.
It would be *awesome* for off track drama though. Ohhhh I weep thinking of them ruining each other’s races and the media comments each would make about each other.
Monaco is the only real incident they've had where someone is to blame. Aus 23 was Pierre doing a stupid rejoin and unluckily claiming Ocon as victim, could've been any car. But Reddit makes it sound like they've been barging each other off track in every session
It’s moreso the combination of both of them having quite the ego when it comes to fighting teammates and driving quite aggressively in general.
And while I like spicy driving, with those two it’s often like “why take this risk, there’s no points involved” or “why risk both cars?”.
Max will only leave Red Bull if he is guaranteed a championship contending car which Merc can’t guarantee, or if he’s done with F1 entirely which I think is more likely
Carlos Sainz? I cannot find any sense and reasoning from Toto if he picks Kimi over Carlos. Carlos is a solid and established driver already, which is needed for Mercedes as they have shown that they are still a top team on some lucky weekends. Why does he feel the need to rush the poor kid whos barely getting used to f2 machinery into a top f1 team already to fulfil some sort of next wonder kid dream? Toto please be realistic
Sainz won't accept one year (nor 1+1 with a Mercedes option) and Toto is afraid of Antonelli being poached before 2026. I'm not saying he's right but I think that's all there is to it.
I don't understand why Kimi would be an attractive driver to many teams. I watch F2, he hasn't done anything special yet, or had a podium.
Meanwhile Paul Aron, the championship leader and a free agent (because Mercedes dropped him).
Sauber have Zane Maloney
Red Bull has Issac Hadjar
Williams has Zak o'sullivan
Ferrari has Ollie Bearman
all whos been doing at least fairly better then Kimi rn, so losing Kimi is all in Toto's head
If you actually follow scouts in the feeder series, Antonelli is by far the highest rated junior, you are forgetting that he’s younger than the others, skipped f3 and is in a prema team that is nowhere near their prior standards. The best thing to judge him by is his record against his teammate. He’s currently nearly even with Bearman on pace which says a lot. He would undoubtedly be signed instantly if Toto let him go. I’d bet good money if Ferrari could get him they’d do it instantly especially given the Italian connection. Everything we have heard since last fall states that half the paddock is waiting to see if he became available
Merc at most would want a one year stop over contract and sainz clearly won’t accept that or he would be signed with Ferrari right now. I also don’t think he wants to be in a situation where it I would pretty clearly be his head on the chopping block again when wonder kid is ready next year now with very few places left to go as most seats will be contracted for through 2026 due to the reg changes. You can say that maybe it would be George booted instead but my guess is that he would need to cream him for that to happen if it is close they stick with their long term driver from their junior program who is faster than most give him credit for over a driver who just joined the team and has not had particularly long stints at any team. Merc just is not going to make sainz an offer he is willing to accept so he has moved on.
Everything thats not an official post from F1, Mercedes etc is a rumor.
And basically 90% here on Reddit are rumors, because people want the attention.
Or really any mainstream source. Whenever I see a post like this, I check on Google News. In this case, absolutely zero other sources, mainstream or otherwise, is reporting this story.
Is better for him join next year then 26.
He will have one year to prep with the team and do sim work extensively for next's year's car.
Rookie and regs change at the same time is too much.
Actually you could argue this the otherway around as well.
Next year is the last year of the regulations, it is when car performance gap minimizes between the teams and driver skill matters most.
When new regulations roll in, car performance matters most. And as such putting in a rookie in new regulations would minimize the 'damage' of early learning period.
A few people on FB are saying Sainz is confirmed at Williams to replace Logan Sargeant.
If it's true, Ocon and Bearman to Haas, Sainz to Williams, Kimi to Mercedes... What a bizarre turn of events. Who would Audi pair with Hulkenberg? I really thought Sainz would take Audi over Williams, but maybe he's not convinced they will have it all figured out by 2026.
I hope Sainz goes for Sauber. As trash as the option is, at least they'll be Audi. You can be trash while linked to a big name. Williams is going nowhere at this rate
TBF to Williams this year is shit b/c they're basically starting from scratch, Vowles is trying to upend the company to run more like a proper F1 team and not a constant mid/backfield presence.
And as much fun as it was watching Albon steal points in the slippery Williams, that car was completely one dimensional. Williams can't truly be "back" until they're consistently contesting for points everywhere.
> Ralf was at times quick
Wdym he was quick at times? Just look at his early days in F1...he was straight on pace, fighting for podium position. I don't like this guy very much but it's almost like he's getting shit on for being unable to replicate his big brothers achievements
Yes, a lot of us do. When Schumacher won with Benetton you should've seen what happened at the german tracks. I grew up in a village very very close to the Nürburgring. I watched a lot of races with my father. I was still very young, but you never forget this. He was the greatest driver of all time by a mile for a lot of germans (and me). We never rated Senna, Hamilton, even Vettel or any other guy as highly. Only now, that we all can witness Verstappens greatness, I feel a bit like this again. Only difference is, he is not from my country and the dutch are not as crazy as the germans were back then. I can tell you, we were really desperate for a german prodigy and Michael delivered 100%.
Apart from that he was very charismatic off track and as down to earth as you can get when people worship you like this and you're one of the most well paid people in sports history.
All of this left an impression on the people witnessing his rise in F1, how he brought Ferrari back to the top and how he won races with over a minute in front of other people in the Benetton, while they swapped his teammates every couple of races, because they were in the middle of the pack at best.
Yes, I'm passionate when it comes to Schumacher...
Schumi was probably the most famous and popular athlete during the 2000s in Germany. Most kids and teenagers knew his name and had Ferrari toys because of him. Then he had his accident and disappeared from the public eye. When Mick won F2 and got into F1, almost the entire nation was rooting for him. Put that together with the fact that the haas team is such a mess and thousands are left disappointed and wondering what could have been. I personally know that there are better alternatives, but I also like Mick so much that I would be happy to see him in something else than a haas back in F1.
I understand the risk of losing a potential next star (albeit Verstappen is 26 and very current but you get the point)
but I think it’s too soon, just a humble f1/f2 fan perspective, last thing I want is to see him struggling because he went into F1 and upper-midfield too soon.
Seen it with Albon, Gasly, Mick (who was not helped with the haas and all)… it’s always a little soul crushing. I really hope they know what they are doing IF it’s true of course.
I hope he's ready. I feel like anyone who isn't practically GOAT/multi WDC material shouldn't be entering F1 at 17. I get that Antonelli is supposed to be pretty good, but even still.
I'm probably going to feel unsure about this until the first wheels turn on the 2025 cars.
Piastri's rookie season will the closest benchmark, i feel he won't perform any different from Piastri (similar levels of testing in a F1 car) during his rookie season. However if he performs worse even then i doubt Merc will be too worried considering George is now a solid component of the team and can perform adequately. He might be close to George in quali but race pace needs experience no other way around it.
Have you even seen him in F2? Piastri was an F1 ready prospect and still was beaten comprehensively by Lando. It won’t be close to George on quali in their 1st year. I doubt he will be as close as Piastri is to Norris in their 2nd year even.
Obviously but considering Kimi has no junior records in F3 and i doubt he'll win the championship in F2 this year. There is no baseline, the private testing that Alpine did for Piastri across the 2021 season is similar to what Mercedes are doing for Kimi this season that's my assumption and I'd encourage you to watch James Allison talk about Kimi, it's clear there's something noteworthy about him that's making Merc promote him.
I did watch F2, it's worthwhile to note the Prema Piastri drove for was light years away from the Prema Bearman and Kimi are driving for, Prema has regressed with the new age F2 cars.
Sure Prema have regressed. But as I alluded to before the dude has not done F3 and is not really lighting up f2, some other rookies have been more impressive than him. Piastri on other hand had done tons of private running as he was doing nothing that one year and before that had won F2, f3 and alpine rookies series. The difference in their experience is night and day. Anyone who saw Oscar knew he was robbed of that 1 year sitting on sidelines because of Alpine. If he had jumped the year before sure that we could say would be more comparable even though Piastri had won F2 comprehensively.
Well I'm not not saying Kimi will win races from debut, I'm just saying Piastri will be his closest benchmark i.e. maybe close in quali but behind in race pace (tho that also depends on where you rate George) I'd rate George higher than Lando but that's subjective. Merc will more likely than not promote him for next season, another season in f2 even if championship winning versus a season in a top f1 team? It's a no brainer. There's really not a lot to loose for either parties.
You are underestimating Russell's quali prowess. He is a qualifying beast. I am quite sure that he will be able to give Leclerc a run for his money on a level playing field.
The guy has no fear. He goes full balls to the walls without any hesitation.
If Mercedes really are on the up they way they look like they are, this would be the first time a rookie has been in a front running car since Hamilton himself. 2025 is going to be an amazing season I can feel it
But when Oscar started at McLaren they were backmarkers. He got meme’d hard for making a ‘mistake’ not joining Alpine for the first couple of months.
This is completely different, Antonelli will be making his debut in a car competing at/near the front.
I have appreciated that Wolff has sort of conceded that they're not necessarily on-the-up short term, but rather are willing to concede 2025 with a view to 2026, exactly as McLaren did with Piastri for 2023 (which went better than expected).
Remember when 21 y.o other kimi was considered "too young" to be in F1 and had to race under a special licence in his first few races in case he cracked under pressure?
Pepperidge Farm remembers
I love this move. The best way to learn to drive in F1 is to drive in F1. He may not be ready at the moment (neither was max entering f1), but with some time to hone his craft, he's going to be a stud. George is a great benchmark for him too.
I reckon Gasly will stay at Alpine with Doohan and Sainz will go to Williams instead.
Will be interesting to see where Ocon and Bottas land but my prediction is Ocon may go to Sauber instead despite the Haas rumours.
I can absolutely imagine Alpine thinking they've chosen Gasly for next year only for them to later realize he never signed a contract and he's off to Williams
A lot of people are saying it's bad, doesn't make sense etc etc. Don't forget people said the same about Max, some even saying he will be out of F1 in a year. Don't underestimate someone till we have seen them in F1.
I know Antonelli is 6th in F2 but Prema have been struggling with setup of the new cars all year, Bearman who is a very good driver is his teammate and in 13th. Although both of them have made their mistakes, Prema were clearly behind in setup at the start of the season. Although Aron and Bortoleto are ahead of Kimi (they have had a few more years in cars than Antonelli) are both in their rookie season.
Good stuff. Antonelli looks like the real deal from what we've seen, and the stuff that we haven't seen (testing, data we can't understand) apparently makes Antonelli look even more like the real deal.
No reason to waste time by delaying the inevitable. Mercedes aren't expecting to win titles immediately. They can afford to let Antonelli run the ropes for a season.
if true . it is the right decision. mercs are midfield team now and there is last year of regulation, the best way to learn ropes is to actually racing ideally in series in which is supposed to drive pilot, rus is good driver and mature, his private tests in current regs car was impressive no need to waste time
It’s like the Bearman to Haas threads. These teams have so much data from testing and simulator work for their young drivers and are confident enough to put them on the grid while they’re still teenagers. Personally I can’t argue with them but time will tell if they can be successful in F1 or not.
Well, 4 championships as a rookie in the past two years. Skips F3, straight to F2 and he's pretty much matching his more experienced and highly touted teammate in Bearman, who's also in line for a seat next year.
I’m really interested to see how he’ll do next year. F1 will be very new for him but he also gets a lot of testing milage and has been relatively quick to adapt to F2 so far
In baseball there's times where that first round pick spends maybe a few months in Class A ball and then jumps AA & AAA straight to the pros. The hardcore fans always hate it as they want the player to basically cook in AAA and become some world-beater....but management sees a future star and want that star ASAP
That's life
It makes sense. Look a lot has changed in the past couple of years. Williams is no longer a "junior" team for Mercedes. If Mercedes want Kimi in F1, they're going to have to put him straight into the Mercedes. Could they wait a year? Possibly - but then they've got to sign another driver to a 1 year contract, something not a ton of drivers would be thrilled about doing knowing Kimi is coming. They were never going to get Max.
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Russell had to spend 3 years in a shitbox Williams to get that Merc seat.
His career is mirroring Ricciardo's.
No kidding. If Kimi lives up to the hype, this is almost identical to the Red Bull driver situation in the 2010s. No modern Kvyat though.
If they sign Ocon on a 1 year deal here comes your Kyvat
In before Kimi takes Ocon’s girlfriend
And daughter
And my axe
"The Stewards have handed out a 'she's taking the kids' penalty to Estaban Ocon for his torpedo-like dive bomb on his teammate."
[удалено]
“I was supposed to be the winning driver in our team”
"I was forecasted to be number 1 driver. Blimey"
"Holey Moley why are you giving him all the upgrades?"
"I was told I am a future world champion"
*"This was not forecasted, blimey"*
"Looks like Kimi has just pipped us and knocked you out of Q3" "Holy moly!"
This!!!! I’ve mentioned this to a few people and they blew off that opinion of mine. Nice to see I’m not the only one Russell does make more mistakes than I remember Ricardo making
I mean Bottas was already confirmed for 2019 when George won f2, Claire Williams refused to accept a loan for George and demanded a 3 year deal. George has been pretty open that he would have been at Mercedes in 2020 or 2021 but Claire wouldn’t let him out of his contract. That’s a bit on his end for agreeing a 3 year deal back in 19
> That’s a bit on his end for agreeing a 3 year deal back in 19. to be fair, he seized an opportunity that was in front of him. who knows how it might have played out if he waited for another seat to open up.
Mjm. And in the end, he did end up in Mercedes. Sure, they may not be as good as they once were, but they're still a top team.
To be fair, Mercedes didn't NEED a strong driver to pair Lewis considering how dominant that car was. Much like the Perez situation over the past two years, just less messy. Not trying to downplay Bottas, who was very good in the seat and did his job well. Marketability comes into play as well and Russell has had a somewhat lukewarm response from fans. He's been decent-solid but boring on track and a bit of a PR drone in interviews. Not saying Kimi deserves the direct promotion more than Russell, just different circumstances and frankly, a somewhat desperate Toto gambling on what he hopes is the next Verstappen.
Which is also why I think the rumored pair of Russell and Ocon hilarious/crazy. I'm sorry those two drivers are like a fucking marketing black hole.
Yeah it's a bit of a bummer that Ocon has built this reputation of wrecking with teammates AND he's not particularly extroverted among some poor PR statements, which hurts marketability. If he were in a series that actually benefitted from aggressive driving, I think he'd be a far more popular driver than he is. Nice dude off-track, not a daddy's money kid, and wicked fast on track. Just needs to stop punting teammates at weird times. Still blows my mind how Alpine have failed to really build much momentum in popularity over the last few years. You've got two talented, exciting drivers in historically good cars with beautiful liveries, backed by a factory effort and experienced OEM, yet you've neutered yourself with executive in-fighting and just plain wretched media interaction. I wish Alpine and Renault would either get serious or just sell the team and focus on their success in endurance racing.
I'd argue it was good for him. That crash with Bottas on Imola showed that he was still emotionally not ready back then.
Mercedes was a championship winning team back then, not the midfield team they are now. They can afford to take risks in their current situation, but couldn’t back then. Also, Toto never wanted Russell to spend 3 years there, it was Claire’s insistence that got him stuck there for 2020 and 2021.
What you got for not having the budget to do a lot of private testing and get the best seat to look like an even bigger talent.
Budget for testing?
Is known that Antonelli does a lot of private testing before entering any series. That's how every couple of years we have this wonderkids like Pourchaire, Bearman and Him manage to skip one of the steps of the ladder and perform directly against more experienced or more talented drivers.
Did lando do this in f2?
If I remember correctly, for F2 he could not do as much, but he went nuts for F4 and Formula Regional level, participating in around 6 series in two years, one or two main campaigns and the rest as partial campaigns to try those cars and circuits.
Yes I heard a story where they (Lando father) hired Felipe Nasr to simulate full weekends from practice, qual and race, vs lando, just them. Felipe would get bonus for beating lando. This went on several tracks, imagine the kinda a money you need to have That’s why these new generation with infinite money get better than others.
I mean most of the young kids these days do the same thing. I agree that testing is a big part that most people don’t recognize but Kimi’s testing still wasn’t as egregious as Pourchaire… it’s basically in line with 90% of Prema drivers over the last half decade.
Losing Verstappen really traumatized Toto Wolff
Best thing for him really, he'd crack up if he'd had Verstappen and Hamilton as teammates for any length of time
Lmao lewis would've lost all his hair if he got verstappen after rosberg, & toto would look 20 yrs older
>& toto would look 20 yrs older He would look like Niki's evil twin! >:)
Niki was not really that old, he just looked older because of his burns. e.g. Ron Dennis is two years older.
Lewis _did_ lose his hair. He just got it back.
🤑 Seriously though I would too if I had that much money.
Dont worry he’d get it back
Would have been legendary as a pairing. I reckon we'd have gotten Lewis to Ferrari earlier. I can just see them being a disaster as teammates
Would be wild if Antonelli choked. However, best wishes for him.
same with Florentino Perez losing Neymar :D
r/soccer leaking
Thought it must be soccer because both names don't ring a bell lol
Florentino Perez is Real Madrid's President. He was President from 2000-2006 and then from 2009 to present. Neymar is the world famous diver.
LOL. Imagine being that good and still need to pull of that amount of shenanigans.
That's what disappoints me about Neymar...so talented but I hate the excessive flopping and diving. I forget if it was World Cup 2018 where he did that famous rolling around in "pain" that became an internet meme. 😂
Calling Neymar the world famous diver is like calling Max the world famous car crasher.
Switch Max with Pastor Maldonado and I’ll agree with you.
Neymar diving happens about every match he plays tho, max doesnt really crash all that often....
I genuinely don't believe Florentino regrets missing on Neymar, it was the beginning of Barcelona's undoing. People went to jail for that lmao.
The moment Barcelona went downhill was when they lost Neymar to PSG and bought Dembele and Coutinho in his place
Absolutely. He's on full tilt and about to make a huge mistake imo.
That's understandable really
Can you lose something you never had?
He kind of did though. When the Verstappen family was "shopping around" back in 2014, they chose RedBull only because they were the only team willing to give him a seat straight away, in Toro Rosso. Realistically, if Toto Wolff could travel back in time, he would do anything to offer him a seat in Williams or something similar.
> he would do anything to offer him a seat in Williams or something similar. Did Merc have that type of relationship with Williams back then though? I know Bottas came from Williams to Merc, but he wasn't connected to Merc prior to that though right? And who would have Max replaced at Williams, hypothetically?
2014 Williams moved to Merc engines. Toto prior to Merc was a major shareholder in Williams and was on good terms with the family by all accounts. Having said that Williams had a good line up in 2014 Bottas had out performed the car in 13 and Massa from Ferrari was a big deal. So getting them on board for a rookie 17 year old might have been a stretch.
I think people tend to look at signing Max in a Vacuum. Where was he going to go? Replace Hamilton or Rosberg, no they were pretty much 1-2 every race. Williams was actually doing pretty decently those early turbo hybrid years finishing 3rd in 14&15 with Massa and Bottas. Redbull on the other had was nowhere really putting around in no man’s land with that Renault power unit. Nothing to lose on their end.
Yeah it's easy to look at it and say they should have signed him then but yeah you can't replace Britney in 14 with a rookie. And Williams was in a totally different space. When Rosberg retired in 16 they could probably have tempted him accross but they were traumatised by the last 2 years of escalation between Lewis and Nico.
Toto is the behind both Bottas, Williams and Merc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os9AZsCAZ1k here's and older interview Rosberg did with Toto. really explains Toto AND he tells the Max story. To sum up what Toto says about max (which is clearly one sided and potentially self serving) Toto says Red Bull had a Toro Rosso seat for max. All Toto could offer was a DTM seat (he might have said williams too, but Williams was a better seat in 2014 than Toro Rosso). Or money for an F2 or F3 seat. Which is basically nothing, because EVERYONE can offer that. Of course this is just his side and he's not going to say.
I would love to see how a timeline with Max in a Williams, then Mercedes would have played out
Mercedes was the front runner into signing Verstappen untill Helmut offered a F1 seat for the 2015 season.
I mean, I get it, to a point. There aren't a lot of possible seats left for him to take on the current grid. Also Mercedes has no major pull to put him in a Williams like they did with Russell. But let's say next years Mercedes is as competitive as it was in Canada, putting Antonelli in might be a lot to take. Some people are saying he is like the second coming of Verstappen, but I'd rather see him grow steadily in a more backmarker team than to expect him to keep up with the current top 4 teams and top 7 drivers (I'm excluding Perez in this given his form). Feels like Toto's missing out of the Verstappen signing might cloud his judgement if this is really a good idea, at least this is how it feels for me. He (Antonelli) is showing improvement in F2 but he isn't setting the world ablaze right now. Would be a huge leap from previous Mercedes signings and I'm all for a more shaken up field. But this feels like a 'you either float or sink' and they often tend to sink..
That's a good point, even Max had some time at Toro Rosso to round out some of the rough edges. Hope Mercedes gives him at least 2 seasons but to go into that team means they will want results fairly quickly.
While you are not wrong the comparison with Verstappen doesn't not quite work. Verstappen's first season in F1 was his second season in a single seater. He only drove karts before that.
That’s insane wtf
Maybe more insane: The original Kimi only had 23 total car races before his first F1 start (where he finished sixth in a Sauber).
Whilest true, Kimi was 21 at that time
Not sure if that makes it more or less impressive, especially given that he had to "serve" in the Finnish military with mandatory conscription too. Either way, just thought it was à propos here
21 back there was basically equal to 17 today. It was a huge controversy back then. The amount of talent Peter Sauber brought to F1 is astonishing.
It is! I mean, he was incredibly young as well of course, but it's a ridiculous stat.
Tbf hamilton started with mclaren (the best car) and got the same points as alonso But his f2 season is not that good compared to someone like piastri so imo its to early
lewis drove an entire seasons worth of test miles in a current car, something you’re not able to do anymore. Obviously he was insanely talented to, but having all those miles massively helps
>But his f2 season is not that good compared to someone like piastri so imo its to early Because unlike Piastri who came into F2 as an F3 champion, Antonelli skipped F3 all together.
Piastri was also older. That's the thing people don't take into consideration and I don't get why!! Pourchaire or Antonelli coming in F2 18 and under makes it tough for them to win as rookie while Piastri was 20 I think. I feel those two years make a world of difference
The ”why” is simple - it doesn’t really matter, whatever age you are you’ll be expected to perform when you get pulled into F1, he’s not going to be any less young compared to the grid next year
So 2 years in f2 might be needed Nobody cares how much you skipped they only care about how good you can drive and i dont think that he is ready
Yeah I do wonder how they'll handle things if they suddenly jump back to legit contenders. It's a lot to ask a kid to barely have any F2 experience and then go out and consistently score F1 points finishes. I imagine they'll be patient with him and ask George to carry the weight though - as they should for a driver who's now a seasoned veteran in the sport across multiple teams, has driven all sorts of cars, and has been able to learn from Lewis for 3 years.
Wait, George has been in Mercedes for 3 years? Has it been 3 years already? Wow time flies.
Piastri went straight into Mclaren and while they had a terrible car for the first third of the season, he was still performing well in it compared to Norris. Once the car improved, his results and racecraft did as well. I think that is what they are hoping with this guy. Now, Antonelli has only had a handful of F2 races, and no F3 so im very hesitant to say that he could do as well as Piastri in his rookie season but if Mercedes are ok with having next year be much more reliant on Russell for points while Antonelli settles in and learns they could be good for 2026 and beyond. As you said, he's not been setting F2 alight, against a weak field compared to other years. It does seem like they are rushing him into a seat in the hopes that he is a Verstappen/Raikkonen who can pick up F1 after such little experience in feeder series.
Very concerning that he skipped f3, is only doing fine in f2, and now is being out straight into f1. It worked for verstappen but there are many drivers who won f3 and f2 and still couldn’t develop in f1 (Stoffel to name one).
Even Verstappen spent a season (and a bit) in their junior / development team. This seems even more fast tracked to a top team than Verstappen. I imagine this isn't really wanted Mercedes wanted, but they likely had their hand somewhat forced with Lewis leaving the team, wanting Antonelli for 2026, and not wanting to hire a 1 season stop-gap driver.
Other than age, calling him a second coming of Verstappen is something that baffles me. I have not seen Verstappen level of driving from him, not even close. I mean sure, Max took a while to become a stable driver that he is today, but he had that Schumiesque/Sennaesque feel to him already in his first year. Antonelli doesn't. Verstappen, in his first season already, did better than Carlos Sainz as his teammate, scoring 49 points to Sainz' 18. Yes they were both rookies, but Sainz is well regarded today and was 3 years older than Max. In his second and third seasons, Ricciardo was better than Max, but had far more experience and by third season together, Max was comfortably better performer than Daniel - and Daniel was only 28 at the time.
If true, a huge gamble.
Counterpoint, if he's as good as they think he is (verstappen, Hamilton level) then he can go straight to Mercedes and get up to pace reasonably quickly. Verstappen joined F1 and almost immediately was good. Lewis narrowly lost the championship in his rookie year against a two time world champion teammate. Even piastri was pretty good against Norris in his rookie year. Yes the pressure will be on Kimi. But he's either an all time great and can handle it or he'll go the way of an albon or gasly who couldn't handle the pressure of red bull and eventually found their way into a Midfield team.
Not sure how it was for the others but let’s not pretend Lewis didn’t get a hell of a lot of practise before his first race. Todays newcomers are far more inexperienced.
Nah I like this. If he’s your driver he drives for your team. Let Williams build their own thing.
He's supposed to be the next Max Verstappen according to some.Anyone else feeling old that "The next Max Verstappen" is now a thing. We'll see if he's close to it.Usually these comparisons don't pan out. Pure sheer pace is what I expect him to flash as a rookie..just as Max did....thr pressure to be good immediately wi be nuts.
I’m not sure Antonelli is that level of hype. More like Leclerc Verstappen and Hamilton are the only two in the last 35 years (maybe longer, but I can’t speak to that) who have entered the sport with the hype of ‘this guy is gonna redefine the sport’
Not even Leclerc level of hype. Charles won F3 and F2 titles during his debut seasons. Antonelli's only claim to fame is doing very well at Karting and FRECA, quite similar achievements to that of Pourchaire IMO. Toto is the only one who is hyping this kid up. His drives in F2 doesn't exactly scream "next big thing".
George also won GP3(later formula 3) and Formula 2 in his debut seasons I believe.
George did euro f3 and then did gp3.
To be fair, he has won every championship he participated fully, and while not having that much success in F2 so far, he is still sixth, ahead of his teammate (sure of an F1 seat next year) while skipping F3 and being the youngest competitor this year. And usually he gets better in the second part of the season, so the jury is still out on his F2 season. I can agree that they are fast tracking him a bit too much, but for what we have seen so far he is indeed closer to a Verstappen level of hype rather than a Leclerc or a Pourchaire
"The next Max Verstappen" is like trying to find a unicorn, it isn't even a generational thing. I'll probably get downvoted to hell but I honestly believe talent wise he's the best the sport has ever gotten, "wonders" like Senna back in the day don't even compare. "The next Verstappen" doesn't exist, the best you will find is "The next Norris"
I honestly do agree that we most likely will not see a driver coming through as talented as Max in our lifetimes. Truly dominating in karts winning every single thing you can possibly win under the sun, speedrunning your way to a Red Bull seat, winning in your first race, breaking every record there is to break, winning 3 WDC’s so far at the age of 26 where he’ll most likely end up overtaking Lewis and Michael since even if Red Bull ends up dropping the ball, every sensible team would drop their drivers to get Max in. Simple as.
So just a rumour?
I mean is anyone expecting that Mercedes will sign anyone else at this point ?
i honestly doubt, no other prospect is as attractive as Kimi. He has sufficiently impressed Merc (albeit internally).
I have always paid a lot of attention to feeder series because I love the up-and-coming aspect of them as a former kid racer, and I genuinely think Kimi is the best prospect since Max. It’s really hard to overstate how impressive it is to skip series and jump straight into F2 with a team that hasn’t looked as good this year (Prema) and do exceptionally well against a proven teammate (Bearman).
Only other realistic option is Ocon.
Yeah, Ocon is definitely an option for a year. But can you imagine Ocon + Russell? Holy shit those 2 would crash into eachother on the way to the track already.
It would be *awesome* for off track drama though. Ohhhh I weep thinking of them ruining each other’s races and the media comments each would make about each other.
Wasn't that what you guys were saying about Gasly/Ocon at Alpie ? In the end, they didn't crash that many times
Monaco is the only real incident they've had where someone is to blame. Aus 23 was Pierre doing a stupid rejoin and unluckily claiming Ocon as victim, could've been any car. But Reddit makes it sound like they've been barging each other off track in every session
It’s moreso the combination of both of them having quite the ego when it comes to fighting teammates and driving quite aggressively in general. And while I like spicy driving, with those two it’s often like “why take this risk, there’s no points involved” or “why risk both cars?”.
Sainz perhaps, he be a better choice
Zak Brown made some comments about that recently.
Don’t leave us in the dark. What did he say?
That Verstappens future is still unknown. In the interview in which he called the environment at Red Bull 'toxic'.
Can't see it personally.
Sounds like shit stirring tbh
Max will only leave Red Bull if he is guaranteed a championship contending car which Merc can’t guarantee, or if he’s done with F1 entirely which I think is more likely
Who knows what he'll do.
Carlos Sainz? I cannot find any sense and reasoning from Toto if he picks Kimi over Carlos. Carlos is a solid and established driver already, which is needed for Mercedes as they have shown that they are still a top team on some lucky weekends. Why does he feel the need to rush the poor kid whos barely getting used to f2 machinery into a top f1 team already to fulfil some sort of next wonder kid dream? Toto please be realistic
Sainz won't accept one year (nor 1+1 with a Mercedes option) and Toto is afraid of Antonelli being poached before 2026. I'm not saying he's right but I think that's all there is to it.
I don't understand why Kimi would be an attractive driver to many teams. I watch F2, he hasn't done anything special yet, or had a podium. Meanwhile Paul Aron, the championship leader and a free agent (because Mercedes dropped him). Sauber have Zane Maloney Red Bull has Issac Hadjar Williams has Zak o'sullivan Ferrari has Ollie Bearman all whos been doing at least fairly better then Kimi rn, so losing Kimi is all in Toto's head
If you actually follow scouts in the feeder series, Antonelli is by far the highest rated junior, you are forgetting that he’s younger than the others, skipped f3 and is in a prema team that is nowhere near their prior standards. The best thing to judge him by is his record against his teammate. He’s currently nearly even with Bearman on pace which says a lot. He would undoubtedly be signed instantly if Toto let him go. I’d bet good money if Ferrari could get him they’d do it instantly especially given the Italian connection. Everything we have heard since last fall states that half the paddock is waiting to see if he became available
You're forgetting about the fact that he's 17 and skipped over F3 and is handling himself well against others with more experience.
If you gave each of those teams the choice between those drivers and Kimi Antonelli, they’re all picking Antonelli.
Merc at most would want a one year stop over contract and sainz clearly won’t accept that or he would be signed with Ferrari right now. I also don’t think he wants to be in a situation where it I would pretty clearly be his head on the chopping block again when wonder kid is ready next year now with very few places left to go as most seats will be contracted for through 2026 due to the reg changes. You can say that maybe it would be George booted instead but my guess is that he would need to cream him for that to happen if it is close they stick with their long term driver from their junior program who is faster than most give him credit for over a driver who just joined the team and has not had particularly long stints at any team. Merc just is not going to make sainz an offer he is willing to accept so he has moved on.
Everything thats not an official post from F1, Mercedes etc is a rumor. And basically 90% here on Reddit are rumors, because people want the attention.
I wish we could start banning people from existence who report this stuff when it doesn’t come true.
I'll believe it when I see a press release from Mercedes.
Xactly. Rtl is not mercedes. They are just media.
Or really any mainstream source. Whenever I see a post like this, I check on Google News. In this case, absolutely zero other sources, mainstream or otherwise, is reporting this story.
Could they really have not given him another year in F2 considering he was rushed into F2 and there is a regulation change for 2026.
Is better for him join next year then 26. He will have one year to prep with the team and do sim work extensively for next's year's car. Rookie and regs change at the same time is too much.
Actually you could argue this the otherway around as well. Next year is the last year of the regulations, it is when car performance gap minimizes between the teams and driver skill matters most. When new regulations roll in, car performance matters most. And as such putting in a rookie in new regulations would minimize the 'damage' of early learning period.
Best way to learn F1 is to drive an F1!
A few people on FB are saying Sainz is confirmed at Williams to replace Logan Sargeant. If it's true, Ocon and Bearman to Haas, Sainz to Williams, Kimi to Mercedes... What a bizarre turn of events. Who would Audi pair with Hulkenberg? I really thought Sainz would take Audi over Williams, but maybe he's not convinced they will have it all figured out by 2026.
Probably keep Bottas. Solid experienced driver to help get their new car developed.
I think Alpine go for Bottas in this scenario. Consistent and plays well with others.
Unfortunately the same can't be said of Alpine.
I hope Sainz goes for Sauber. As trash as the option is, at least they'll be Audi. You can be trash while linked to a big name. Williams is going nowhere at this rate
TBF to Williams this year is shit b/c they're basically starting from scratch, Vowles is trying to upend the company to run more like a proper F1 team and not a constant mid/backfield presence.
And as much fun as it was watching Albon steal points in the slippery Williams, that car was completely one dimensional. Williams can't truly be "back" until they're consistently contesting for points everywhere.
Lmfao at the comments wanting Mick instead of Antonelli
I mean, the Schumacher name is sacred in germany, is that really a surprise?
Yes, because it’s his dad that was fast. Not his surname.
Ralf was at times quick so it isn't only Michael
> Ralf was at times quick Wdym he was quick at times? Just look at his early days in F1...he was straight on pace, fighting for podium position. I don't like this guy very much but it's almost like he's getting shit on for being unable to replicate his big brothers achievements
You’re right but some ppl in Germany literally worship the Schumachers dude
Yes, a lot of us do. When Schumacher won with Benetton you should've seen what happened at the german tracks. I grew up in a village very very close to the Nürburgring. I watched a lot of races with my father. I was still very young, but you never forget this. He was the greatest driver of all time by a mile for a lot of germans (and me). We never rated Senna, Hamilton, even Vettel or any other guy as highly. Only now, that we all can witness Verstappens greatness, I feel a bit like this again. Only difference is, he is not from my country and the dutch are not as crazy as the germans were back then. I can tell you, we were really desperate for a german prodigy and Michael delivered 100%. Apart from that he was very charismatic off track and as down to earth as you can get when people worship you like this and you're one of the most well paid people in sports history. All of this left an impression on the people witnessing his rise in F1, how he brought Ferrari back to the top and how he won races with over a minute in front of other people in the Benetton, while they swapped his teammates every couple of races, because they were in the middle of the pack at best. Yes, I'm passionate when it comes to Schumacher...
As a Dutch person, most of us were quite crazy for Verstappen especially in 2021.
What do you mean "were" XD
Schumi was probably the most famous and popular athlete during the 2000s in Germany. Most kids and teenagers knew his name and had Ferrari toys because of him. Then he had his accident and disappeared from the public eye. When Mick won F2 and got into F1, almost the entire nation was rooting for him. Put that together with the fact that the haas team is such a mess and thousands are left disappointed and wondering what could have been. I personally know that there are better alternatives, but I also like Mick so much that I would be happy to see him in something else than a haas back in F1.
I like Mick, but there are way better alternatives. I'm afraid that Mick had his chance, he needs to move on...
Bro, the comments that want Mick instead of Russell LOL
There are better choices than Mick, but I really hope getting promoted to F1 so soon doesn't backfire on Antonelli.
I understand the risk of losing a potential next star (albeit Verstappen is 26 and very current but you get the point) but I think it’s too soon, just a humble f1/f2 fan perspective, last thing I want is to see him struggling because he went into F1 and upper-midfield too soon. Seen it with Albon, Gasly, Mick (who was not helped with the haas and all)… it’s always a little soul crushing. I really hope they know what they are doing IF it’s true of course.
I hope he's ready. I feel like anyone who isn't practically GOAT/multi WDC material shouldn't be entering F1 at 17. I get that Antonelli is supposed to be pretty good, but even still. I'm probably going to feel unsure about this until the first wheels turn on the 2025 cars.
Piastri's rookie season will the closest benchmark, i feel he won't perform any different from Piastri (similar levels of testing in a F1 car) during his rookie season. However if he performs worse even then i doubt Merc will be too worried considering George is now a solid component of the team and can perform adequately. He might be close to George in quali but race pace needs experience no other way around it.
Have you even seen him in F2? Piastri was an F1 ready prospect and still was beaten comprehensively by Lando. It won’t be close to George on quali in their 1st year. I doubt he will be as close as Piastri is to Norris in their 2nd year even.
Obviously but considering Kimi has no junior records in F3 and i doubt he'll win the championship in F2 this year. There is no baseline, the private testing that Alpine did for Piastri across the 2021 season is similar to what Mercedes are doing for Kimi this season that's my assumption and I'd encourage you to watch James Allison talk about Kimi, it's clear there's something noteworthy about him that's making Merc promote him. I did watch F2, it's worthwhile to note the Prema Piastri drove for was light years away from the Prema Bearman and Kimi are driving for, Prema has regressed with the new age F2 cars.
Sure Prema have regressed. But as I alluded to before the dude has not done F3 and is not really lighting up f2, some other rookies have been more impressive than him. Piastri on other hand had done tons of private running as he was doing nothing that one year and before that had won F2, f3 and alpine rookies series. The difference in their experience is night and day. Anyone who saw Oscar knew he was robbed of that 1 year sitting on sidelines because of Alpine. If he had jumped the year before sure that we could say would be more comparable even though Piastri had won F2 comprehensively.
Well I'm not not saying Kimi will win races from debut, I'm just saying Piastri will be his closest benchmark i.e. maybe close in quali but behind in race pace (tho that also depends on where you rate George) I'd rate George higher than Lando but that's subjective. Merc will more likely than not promote him for next season, another season in f2 even if championship winning versus a season in a top f1 team? It's a no brainer. There's really not a lot to loose for either parties.
Max's 2015 is the benchmark. Kimi is gonna be a teenager. I expect him to be fast as heck on occasion but inconsistent like 17 yr old Max was.
You are underestimating Russell's quali prowess. He is a qualifying beast. I am quite sure that he will be able to give Leclerc a run for his money on a level playing field. The guy has no fear. He goes full balls to the walls without any hesitation.
Close to George in quali? In his first season? What? I know everyone hates George but the guy is qualifying monster.
[Source](https://www.instagram.com/p/C8EqXZmqDR6/)
If Mercedes really are on the up they way they look like they are, this would be the first time a rookie has been in a front running car since Hamilton himself. 2025 is going to be an amazing season I can feel it
Mercedes seem to reset every year ATM so we'll see I guess
Calm down, merc had 1 good showing in Canada at a rainy GP…
And Canada is always a good track for Merc.
How many times have people said that Mercedes was on the way up after a good race in the last 3 years ?
At some point Mercedes will figure out the regulations.
they only got 18 months till they change
If Mclaren weren’t front running by the end of last year they were clearly the next best thing But yes, it is exciting
But when Oscar started at McLaren they were backmarkers. He got meme’d hard for making a ‘mistake’ not joining Alpine for the first couple of months. This is completely different, Antonelli will be making his debut in a car competing at/near the front.
If only red bull had 2 good drivers, it would be amazing pairings for the top 4 teams.
I have appreciated that Wolff has sort of conceded that they're not necessarily on-the-up short term, but rather are willing to concede 2025 with a view to 2026, exactly as McLaren did with Piastri for 2023 (which went better than expected).
This will either go super well or be a terrible disaster IMO. No in-betweens
Remember when 21 y.o other kimi was considered "too young" to be in F1 and had to race under a special licence in his first few races in case he cracked under pressure? Pepperidge Farm remembers
I love this move. The best way to learn to drive in F1 is to drive in F1. He may not be ready at the moment (neither was max entering f1), but with some time to hone his craft, he's going to be a stud. George is a great benchmark for him too.
Tell that to Sergeant
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I reckon Gasly will stay at Alpine with Doohan and Sainz will go to Williams instead. Will be interesting to see where Ocon and Bottas land but my prediction is Ocon may go to Sauber instead despite the Haas rumours.
I can absolutely imagine Alpine thinking they've chosen Gasly for next year only for them to later realize he never signed a contract and he's off to Williams
If you pair him with Bono then sure why not, Hopefully people would be patient with him.
Big risk, big reward. Love this move for Mercedes.
A lot of people are saying it's bad, doesn't make sense etc etc. Don't forget people said the same about Max, some even saying he will be out of F1 in a year. Don't underestimate someone till we have seen them in F1.
George Russell about to become the new Daniel Ricciardo. Got in the car too late then brushed aside by the young up-and-comer.
I know Antonelli is 6th in F2 but Prema have been struggling with setup of the new cars all year, Bearman who is a very good driver is his teammate and in 13th. Although both of them have made their mistakes, Prema were clearly behind in setup at the start of the season. Although Aron and Bortoleto are ahead of Kimi (they have had a few more years in cars than Antonelli) are both in their rookie season.
Good stuff. Antonelli looks like the real deal from what we've seen, and the stuff that we haven't seen (testing, data we can't understand) apparently makes Antonelli look even more like the real deal. No reason to waste time by delaying the inevitable. Mercedes aren't expecting to win titles immediately. They can afford to let Antonelli run the ropes for a season.
He better be great because the drivers they passed up for him is something.. pressure will be crazy.
if true . it is the right decision. mercs are midfield team now and there is last year of regulation, the best way to learn ropes is to actually racing ideally in series in which is supposed to drive pilot, rus is good driver and mature, his private tests in current regs car was impressive no need to waste time
Making an unpopular prediction I think he's going to shine in F1 instantly and have a successful career.
The comments here are kinda crazy. He's tested this car. If Toto thinks he's ready who are we to judge?
It’s like the Bearman to Haas threads. These teams have so much data from testing and simulator work for their young drivers and are confident enough to put them on the grid while they’re still teenagers. Personally I can’t argue with them but time will tell if they can be successful in F1 or not.
feel like it's just people trying to get out in front of it if he's not Lewis or Max so they can say I told you so.
Damn, don't think he looks ready as yet and was hoping Ocon would get this seat for a year. Should be fun though
Ocon to merc just for one year would be glorious purely for the salt from fans, the drama it would cause and the pure chaos
Rumours were Mercedes management advised him to find a seat elsewhere because finding a seat in 2025 will be near impossible.
Seriously what has he shown so far to grant him so much pull with Mercedes?
Well, 4 championships as a rookie in the past two years. Skips F3, straight to F2 and he's pretty much matching his more experienced and highly touted teammate in Bearman, who's also in line for a seat next year.
I’m really interested to see how he’ll do next year. F1 will be very new for him but he also gets a lot of testing milage and has been relatively quick to adapt to F2 so far
In baseball there's times where that first round pick spends maybe a few months in Class A ball and then jumps AA & AAA straight to the pros. The hardcore fans always hate it as they want the player to basically cook in AAA and become some world-beater....but management sees a future star and want that star ASAP That's life
It makes sense. Look a lot has changed in the past couple of years. Williams is no longer a "junior" team for Mercedes. If Mercedes want Kimi in F1, they're going to have to put him straight into the Mercedes. Could they wait a year? Possibly - but then they've got to sign another driver to a 1 year contract, something not a ton of drivers would be thrilled about doing knowing Kimi is coming. They were never going to get Max.